[HN Gopher] Lessons from the Lebanese Space Program - Kasurian
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Lessons from the Lebanese Space Program - Kasurian
Author : rbanffy
Score : 30 points
Date : 2025-04-30 11:41 UTC (11 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (kasurian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (kasurian.com)
| shayway wrote:
| Fascinating! Space programs post ~1970 are one thing, but they
| reached orbit by 1963! That would make them third in the world
| after USSR and US. I'm surprised I haven't heard of this before -
| I'll definitely be watching the documentary mentioned here, "The
| Lebanese Rocket Society".
|
| I don't care for the writing of this article though, a bit fluffy
| and scant on information. And does anyone know what this is
| referring to?
|
| > The Lebanese Army and what remained of the Rocket Society would
| go on to launch another rocket, the Cedar-10, and western powers
| decisively stepped in to end Lebanon's experiment once and for
| all.
| rbanffy wrote:
| > and western powers decisively stepped in to end Lebanon's
| experiment
|
| Western powers always stop countries before they get the
| ability to make reliable ICBMs. Brazil was making some good
| progress on their satellite launcher, but I believe there US
| wasn't too happy the rocket used solid fuels, and solid fuel
| rockets, as we all know, are excellent for ICBMs because they
| can be launched as soon as they are pointing up-ish.
|
| So, the lesson is to not make something with obvious military
| applications, because only big kids can have these toys, and
| your factories tend to explode (as if rockets themselves
| weren't already dangerous by themselves) if you continue.
| shayway wrote:
| I understand the reasoning, what I'm curious about is what
| 'decisively stepping in' means in this case.
| rbanffy wrote:
| I'm not sure I want to know that.
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLS-1_V03
|
| one of the deadliest space related disasters
| shayway wrote:
| Sorry, by 'this case' I meant in the article:
|
| > The Lebanese Army and what remained of the Rocket
| Society would go on to launch another rocket, the
| Cedar-10, and western powers decisively stepped in to end
| Lebanon's experiment once and for all. The Rocket Society
| was disbanded and the program shut down.
|
| I did some searching around but I can't find any
| information on what it might be referring to.
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| Oh in that case it is even simpler. Instead of "western
| powers" just say "Mossad". They hunt and kill anyone who
| attempts to help nations which could potentially be
| hostile to Israel gain more advanced weapons. Territorial
| boundaries don't apply in that circumstance.
| Participating in a rocket program like this is the
| equivalent of signing your own death certificate.
| shayway wrote:
| Whoa! Who was killed? The article focuses mostly on
| Manougian, and I got the impression they were the key
| person behind the Rocket Society, a la Korolev or Braun.
| What role did the person who died play that caused the
| whole program to just be scrapped?
| mncharity wrote:
| > they reached orbit
|
| No, the text is misleading, confusing altitude with orbiting.
| This was a sounding rocket.[1] Upon jumping 145 km high, it
| might wave as something orbital zoomed by it at 8 km/s, but it
| very wasn't one itself. A similar sounding rocket[2] is like
| half the mass of the world's smallest orbital rocket[3].
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sounding_rocket [2]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrier_Orion [3]
| https://global.jaxa.jp/press/2018/04/20180427_guinness.html
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBUFNgLrykc (Scott Manley)
|
| OP> The Cedar-4 was a three-stage rocket capable of reaching an
| altitude of 145 kilometres, thus entering the low Earth orbit
| (LEO) zone, and blasting past their record of two kilometres in
| 1961. LEO is where most satellite and human space flight
| activities take place. In every sense then, the Cedar-4 was a
| modern rocket; it rose over the Karman line, considered the
| boundary between Earth's atmosphere and space, and the ability
| to reach LEO opened up possibilities previously unimagined.
|
| "[A]bility to reach LEO"? Well, in the unusual sense that a
| 5-year old cutting across the campus has "reached Harvard".
| shayway wrote:
| Ah, thank you for the correction. Still impressive of course,
| but that makes much more sense.
| IG_Semmelweiss wrote:
| >>> The Cedar-8 rocket had nearly hit a British naval cruiser in
| the Mediterranean.
|
| It seems they had no way to know where these things would land,
| or if they did, had no way to communicate to state actors of
| hazard zones ?
|
| I'd love to know more.
|
| >>> "By 1965, I realised that the Lebanese military's interest
| had changed from scientific research for peaceful exploration of
| space, to rockets as an instrument of war."
|
| Due dilligence applies to all endeavors. Accepting VC money, or
| accepting government money, it still requires some work.
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| You generally send out a NOTAM to inform pilots about this sort
| of thing. I'm unsure if there exists an equivalent mechanism in
| the international maritime communities to inform ships in the
| area.
| IG_Semmelweiss wrote:
| That's if you are an-FAA like entity. But what about a ragtag
| group of scientists putting objects in the sky, with no
| access to airport operations or govt sanction ?
| sidewndr46 wrote:
| No? You can call in as a pilot and issue a NOTAM if you
| want to. You can phone up the relevant air traffic control
| center and issue a NOTAM as well. You might do this if you
| saw something unusual like a plane in controlled air space
| that was flying in a dangerous manner. Or if you were doing
| something in uncontrolled airspace that could still be a
| hazard, so you report it so other's can adjust for it.
| euroderf wrote:
| Sounds like an invite for every 12yo kid with an Estes
| rocket to call the local ATC, just to probe the system in
| a spirit of inquisitive co-operation.
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(page generated 2025-04-30 23:02 UTC)