[HN Gopher] Chongqing, the Largest City - In Pictures
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Chongqing, the Largest City - In Pictures
Author : tosh
Score : 192 points
Date : 2025-04-27 06:42 UTC (16 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
| alephnerd wrote:
| > The largest city in the world is as big as Austria, but few
| people have ever heard of it
|
| Pet peeve but this article is confusing Chongqing's entire land
| area with the city of Chongqing and associated urban areas (only
| 6% of Chongqing's total land area).
|
| The issue is Zhi Xia Shi is translated as "direct-administered
| city" but should be treated as a "Direct-administered
| municipality" or "Direct-administered state".
|
| Much of Chongqing (the Zhi Xia Shi not the city) was formed due
| to a reorganization of Sichuan in 1997.
| luotuoshangdui wrote:
| This. Chongqing is not a "city" in the English sense of the
| word. Even in China, they jokingly call it a Sheng (province).
| olalonde wrote:
| It's also because it's not part of any province. So if you
| ask Chongqing people which province they are from, it's
| natural for them to reply "Chongqing". Same for Beijing,
| Shanghai and Tianjin.
| echelon wrote:
| These photos don't do Chongqing justice. Google it and marvel at
| the beauty.
|
| It's an incredible city.
| forinti wrote:
| If you take the list of largest cities in China and google them
| from largest down, you'll find an incredible number of cities
| that just look like they're in the future.
| rpozarickij wrote:
| Sometimes I wonder what future Chinese cities will look like
| in a few decades from now, given that the current ones
| already look so futuristic.
| pezezin wrote:
| It depends if they stagnate or not. Japan used to be
| future, but it got stuck in the past.
| stevenwoo wrote:
| That bookstore is beautiful but how does one access books on that
| twenty foot tall shelf - it seems a bit impractical for even
| looking at the spine of a book.
| stevenwoo wrote:
| I had to look it up and could not find any English sources for
| this location but the book store chain is named after Sisyphus
| (my first thought was the struggle against online retailers)
| and has multiple stores in Chongqing, this one looks more
| practical and like a stylish library and store for books:
| https://www.dezeen.com/2019/08/04/chongqing-zhongshuge-books...
| kappasan wrote:
| Haven't been to Chongqing in a while, but the vertical nature of
| the city is fascinating [1]. It's like they layered multiple
| cities on top of each other! Curious how that affects social
| interactions in daily life.
|
| [1]
| https://www.reddit.com/r/CityPorn/comments/8kqwnf/chongqing_...
| nosianu wrote:
| Vertical, as in those incredible never-ending stairs:
| https://youtu.be/257PMPqPgXE
| nickkell wrote:
| No need for a gym membership if you climb those stairs often
| enough!
| tetris11 wrote:
| I loved it when I saw it, it had easily more charm and
| diversity than Beijing or Shanghai
| rwmj wrote:
| Seems to depend a bit on how you define "city proper". Wikipedia
| has two lists:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cities#List
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megacity#List_of_megacities
|
| which disagree with this (and each other) on which city is
| largest.
| gonzobonzo wrote:
| The first list appears to come from one U.N. report where
| they're using completely different standards for different
| cities - some are using population estimates for the
| municipality, others population estimates of just the urban
| core, and others still using population estimates for the
| entire region.
|
| As far as I can tell, Tokyo is at the top of the list because
| because they seem to be using the estimates for the entire
| region. Other estimates for Tokyo's population - even on
| Wikipedia - are less than half the number listed there.
| glimshe wrote:
| Jacksonville, FL also claims to be the largest city in the
| contiguous US... by area. It's not a small or bad city, but not
| even in the top 10 in most other metrics.
| csomar wrote:
| They should replace this with a density metric. If a city is
| big enough, it becomes just "cities" next to each other. The
| difference is in central density and time from the extremities
| to the center. In this case, Chongqing, HongKong and Paris are
| denser than say Los Angeles; even though the Los Angeles metro
| area has a comparable/higher number of people.
| Stevvo wrote:
| "Chongqing, which is the largest city proper in the world by
| population, comprises a huge administrative area of 82,403 km2,
| around the size of Austria. However, more than 70% of its
| 30-million population are agricultural workers living in a
| rural setting."
| kubb wrote:
| Chongqing seems incredible on pictures and YouTube videos. No
| doubt it's a comfortable place to live for many people, and
| surely it isn't perfect, especially when it comes to things like
| air pollution.
|
| What amazes me is China's capacity to do development on a large
| scale, something that's completely missing in Europe. If we had
| efficient large-scale construction solved, we could really put a
| dent in the cost of living crisis, and reverse the overcrowding
| of the existing urban centers.
| whatever1 wrote:
| The cost of housing in the large Chinese megacities is
| comparable to, if not higher than, that in Western countries.
| Therefore, they are not constructing housing at a fast enough
| pace to meet their population's needs. However, they do build
| at a rate that is 2-4 times faster than that of Western
| countries.
| dan-robertson wrote:
| What does 'comparable' mean? Is it about ratios between
| incomes and costs? Or cost of the same apartment in two
| places? Or something else?
| markus_zhang wrote:
| Cost/income is a good ratio. The megacities (Shanghai,
| Shenzhen etc.) probably have a ratio similar to New York.
|
| Just from top of my head as I left Shanghai 10 years ago, a
| typical condo in Shanghai could cost over 5 million yuan
| (urban but definitely not core city), while a salary of
| 300k pre-tax is considered as a good salary.
|
| On the other side, housing is affordable for locals --
| locals usually got very generous compensation from the
| demolition of their original home.
| chgs wrote:
| Median monthly cost in terms of median take home pay would
| be the sensible comparison.
|
| This would exclude ex-pats.
| yusaydat wrote:
| The prices depend on the city, apartments in Chongqing cost
| around $1,000 USD per m2, about 1/5th of the prices in cities
| like Beijing and Shanghai.
| screye wrote:
| Chinese housing demand is a unique beast.
|
| Chinese citizens do not see stocks as a stable investment, so
| housing becomes the main type of investment. Housing domicile
| rules (Hukou system) give special rights to homeowners which
| incentivizes housing purchase instead of renting.
|
| As a result, housing prices are proportionally higher in
| China than in the US. There is a gold-like intangibility to
| it.
|
| If China also had NIMBYs alongside this system, their houses
| would've easily risen to the most expensive in the world.
| maxglute wrote:
| > they are not constructing housing at a fast enough pace to
| meet their population's needs
|
| It's more accurate to say PRC/CCP understood it's
| _impossible_ to build enough housing in Tier1 cities where
| everyone wants to be, the supply/demand curve will never make
| sense outside of micro/small countries where everyone can fit
| in a handful of cities. Can't fit 1 billion people in
| Beijing/Shanghai/Guahzhou/Shenzhen etc, need 30/40/50 cities
| that are almost as enticing.
|
| What PRC is constructing "fast enough" pace are entirely new
| cities / developing shitholes into T2/T3 alternatives to
| shift demand away from T1/T2s. IMO that's the real lesson
| west needs to learn but can't due to lack of hukou / internal
| migration controls - spreading out desirable urban areas
| because talent / productive centres tends to agglomerate ala
| zipf's law, which Chinese development patterns does not
| follow. IIRC 10-15 years ago, there were ongoing academic
| debate about PRC's urban density (or lack of due due to
| sunlight planning laws), and how PRC could be more
| competitive if it doubled density in T1 cities, but central
| gov said no, better build more desirable, low CoL cities
| (especially inland / poorer regions) where _most_ of
| population can distribute vs hammer T1 further into
| unsustainability.
| moomin wrote:
| The thing is, we used to do this. Walk around London or
| Florence or Rome and you will see era-adjusted sights that are
| equally impressive. For that matter, go check out Blenheim
| Palace. It's a reasonable question to ask: What happened? But
| the answer is prosaic. These sights all come from times of
| _incredible_ inequality. Which you don't see in these pictures
| but is vastly more relevant to the day to day lives of most
| citizens.
|
| Show me a place that looks like that where no-one goes hungry,
| has to worry about medical bills and doesn't live in fear of
| the rich and powerful and then I'll be impressed.
| dan-robertson wrote:
| I mean, people go hungry today in plenty of places that fail
| to build (the U.K. for example) and they went hungry or lived
| in fear of the powerful in plenty of places before they were
| able to build at impressive scales.
|
| I'm not sure if it's what you are thinking of, but I don't
| think the massive expansion of cities in the Industrial
| Revolution was caused by incredible inequality (unless you
| count inequality between urban and rural areas?).
|
| I guess you could be thinking of 'monuments' built by the
| rich and saying they are due to inequality but I would think
| the analogue to Chongqing would be the constructing of the
| 'megacities' of the past, which is mostly about building lots
| of residential, industrial, and office space rather than
| palaces.
| kubb wrote:
| I think it's a misread to attribute large-scale construction
| mainly to inequality. While inequality funded grand projects
| historically, today it's effective planning, strong state
| capacity, and streamlined execution that make the real
| difference.
|
| China's development is impressive because it prioritizes
| coordination and scale, whereas Europe struggles more with
| political and organizational fragmentation and lack of
| initiative.
| yorwba wrote:
| The strong state capacity collects the resources of large
| areas and concentrates them into large-scale construction
| projects in a handful of places. China has a small number
| of megacities with large, wealthy, modern urban cores and a
| very large population that lives somewhere else. There are
| about a hundred cities with more than a million inhabitants
| but only 47 have urban rail transit:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_rail_transit_in_China
| That's inequality.
| kubb wrote:
| That's fair, but the number of cities with urban rail
| transit is increasing over time. Whether it's the smaller
| cities paying for the bigger ones... I don't feel like
| that's the whole picture, but I don't know enough to
| dispute that.
| kelipso wrote:
| A first-order evaluation, just looking at yearly income
| per person, would say that urban centers make more money
| per capita and thus contributes more money per capita to
| tax than non-urban centers.
| thelamest wrote:
| (Maybe I'm reading too much of a narrative into what you
| wrote, but-) I don't think it's causal like that; it
| doesn't have to be. In particular, "wealthy, modern urban
| cores" tend to be self-sustaining economic force
| multipliers rather than parasitic resource sinks or
| vanity projects. Each specific megaproject might be one
| of the latter, of course. In general, however, I'd be
| careful about mixing up different public choice failures.
| How easy it is to: (agree on a fair way to) collect
| public money, identify and agree on some kind of public
| benefit, allocate resources to further that interest,
| execute projects without snags - etc.
| chipsa wrote:
| Knowing how China designates cities[0], citation needed
| on the number of cities.
|
| 0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chongqing > The
| municipality covers a large geographical area roughly the
| size of Austria,[14] which includes several disjunct
| urban areas in addition to Chongqing proper.
| yorwba wrote:
| On this list of Chinese cities by population: https://en.
| wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_China_by_pop... #100
| is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiujiang with a total
| population of 4.6 million, of which 2.8 million live in
| urban areas and 1.1 million in the metropolitan area,
| i.e. the fact that cities often administratively subsume
| neighboring towns is already taken into account.
| oceanhaiyang wrote:
| > Show me a place that looks like that where no-one goes
| hungry, has to worry about medical bills and doesn't live in
| fear of the rich and powerful and then I'll be impressed.
|
| I think you're still speaking about Chongqing. China builds
| these and closes the wage gap.
| 10u152 wrote:
| Oh come on.
|
| Lower socio economic Chinese definitely still fear the rich
| and worry about being homeless and not getting medical
| treatment.
| dangus wrote:
| Tell me one way that your statement doesn't apply to the
| US or many other wealthy developed nations.
|
| The GINI coefficient is higher in the USA than it is in
| China.
|
| China in recent years has reduced inequality while the US
| has done absolutely nothing to curb discontent, the same
| discontent that has led to the election of a fascist
| leader.
|
| Don't believe me, look up the data.
| graemep wrote:
| > China in recent years has reduced inequality
|
| After many years of increasing inequality
|
| > the US has done absolutely nothing to curb discontent,
| the same discontent that has led to the election of a
| fascist leader.
|
| I cannot imagine possible definition of "fascist" that
| would include the US and exclude China. China has far
| more fascist features than any other major country -
| personality cult, courts compliant with the government,
| erasure of minority cultures - and actual genocide.
| GlacierFox wrote:
| It seems some people have claimed the word fascist to
| mean something entirely different to what it actually
| means in an attempt to shut down conversations when
| things aren't going their way.
| pphysch wrote:
| > China has far more fascist features than any other
| major country - personality cult, courts compliant with
| the government, erasure of minority cultures - and actual
| genocide.
|
| These are unsubstantiated allegations that come directly
| from the governments you are loyally defending.
|
| They are definitely substantiated when it comes to USA:
| Trump has a legendary personality cult and recently
| released trading cards for it. Trump's FBI just arrested
| a judge for noncompliance. Trump is hosting genocidal
| mass-murderer Ben-Gvir in the country right now. This is
| all just this week! Spare us the vague "look over there,
| China bad" hand-waving.
| dangus wrote:
| I didn't say China wasn't fascist, I only said that the
| US is moving in that direction rapidly. I am talking
| about trends not necessarily the state of things at this
| moment.
| skippyboxedhero wrote:
| It is an insight into human irrationality to see a
| country where hundreds of millions have been lifted out
| of crushing absolute poverty, that has built one of the
| world's best infrastructure from nothing...in the 70s,
| China was poorer than every country in Africa bar one.
|
| ...the problem is that some people are concerned only
| with how things are done, this is feudal government, this
| is pre-industrial economic growth, who does things, how
| they do it, make sure nothing new is every tried because
| that is dangerous and might lead to the elite losing
| control. China (and much of East Asia) succeeded because
| they are concerned only with outcomes, and this is all
| that people care about anyway. Unfortunately, the West is
| now controlled by people who see change as dangerous, and
| nothing is more dangerous than a country leapfrogging
| them in development because it proves that their
| leadership is bankrupt and incompetent.
| xtracto wrote:
| Western societies are blinded by the narrative their
| governments have fed them in the last 50 years: China
| Bad.
|
| But us in 3rd world countries have the ability to see
| both Western and Eastern societies' development and
| compare it ij a more unbiased way.
|
| Frankly the China bet looks more successful.
| graemep wrote:
| I know many people in third world countries who fear
| China. I did when living in one (and continue to do so as
| a citizen of one with still close connections to it).
|
| China is a success for whom? Exploited factory workers,
| Tibetans and Uyghurs?
| skippyboxedhero wrote:
| For the hundreds of millions of people who have incomes
| more than $1 per day now. Simple.
|
| China produced one of the greatest economic miracles ever
| seen in an age when every economic authority said that
| miracles were impossible. This is still the legacy today
| where people argue, even after China has thrown up cities
| housing 20m people in two decades, that isn't
| real...because it fundamentally overturns basic aspects
| of the pre-China account of economic growth (which was
| itself largely based on lies to create support for
| politicians).
|
| Never forget that economic growth is dangerous to vested
| interests.
| christkv wrote:
| Are you willing to submit to my one party state and be ok
| with being disappeared if you have an unpopular opinion
| or being enslaved if you are the wrong minority?
| echelon wrote:
| That isn't the powerful criticism that a lot of people
| think it is. You can keep saying this until you're blue
| in the face. It doesn't stop China's growth in power and
| scale. It doesn't impact their citizens at all. It's
| cheerleading with hot air and ignores the real work that
| the West needs to put in to effectively compete or
| counter.
|
| In fact, we should be worried about what the success of
| such a large non-democratic institution means to
| developing nations seeking their own model. Or what it
| means to those in power back at home. Your manner of
| argument doesn't successfully address the incredible
| success China has achieved, and if anything, it risks
| calling the basis of your argument -- the importance of
| democratic institutions -- into question.
|
| The things the West can do to compete are to work harder
| on education, become an attractive destination for
| immigration, foster productive innovation, and focus on
| key industries and supply chains. Right now the US in
| particular is doing the opposite, and it's damaging
| America's standing and ability to compete with China. It
| comes at a time where it's critical to perform.
|
| By all means, China should be the north star incentive to
| work harder. During the Cold War we used the threat of
| the Soviets being better than us to do some of the best
| engineering and science we've ever done. If our response
| to China is to call them names and hope that their growth
| stalls, then I think I can predict a very different and
| very mediocre outcome for the West in the coming century.
|
| This is our opportunity to rise to the occasion again and
| be better than we were. Let's not be arrogant and
| dismissive. Let's not fumble.
| roughly wrote:
| Look I get it's a little early to really draw that line
| in the US, but we were in a hell of a lot better position
| to have this argument a couple months ago.
| skippyboxedhero wrote:
| If I told you that a government would exist in Africa
| that would eliminate poverty across most of the continent
| in three decades, would you think it strange if people
| thought this was a terrible thing?
| twodave wrote:
| I don't think anyone who understands geopolitics can
| agree with this take.
|
| China has been able to (for a time) sustain this kind of
| rapid industrialization because of globalization, a model
| of hyper-inflation and by taking advantage of wage
| inequality (i.e. paying their workers less) in order to
| dump goods into other countries' markets. Take away
| globalization and China starves in the dark, because the
| part of their population that is largest, most productive
| and knows how to even feed itself (China is a heavy net
| importer of food, especially pork) is also very old. And
| when those people are too old to work, China is going to
| rely on the rest of the world to sustain its (rapidly
| declining) population.
|
| There are a lot of other Asian countries in a similar
| situation, but China is unique in how bleak the future
| could be for hundreds of millions of people.
|
| A year ago I would have said "who knows when the scale
| will tip?" With what's going on lately it seems that it
| may have already happened. Whether you agree with the
| economic policy of this administration or not, the
| ramifications are astounding. The US is positioned to
| come out of this the best, at the expense of the rest of
| the world. This is why China is all of a sudden calling
| the US bullies. They would never admit weakness, but they
| are suddenly feeling the heat. If the US took it a step
| further and decided to stop securing the seas in that
| part of the world, all hell would break loose.
|
| For instance, do you think Japan and China would just
| "play nice" with no incentive to? I'm not so sure, and
| China has no access to the ocean without going through
| Japan.
| echelon wrote:
| This argument is Peter Zeihan's thesis too, and I'm not
| sure it'll be what actually comes to pass.
|
| China still has an enormous population, and if they
| convert their society from production to domestic
| consumption and ride the value-add wave, they'll follow
| the American growth equation. And with more people to
| bolster that economy, to boot. You can already see this
| in their dominance of electronics, drones, EVs, and green
| tech. They're doing advanced, bleeding edge work in all
| of the industries that matter.
|
| BYD, DJI, Eufy/Anker (vs iRobot), Lenovo, Alibaba, ...
| China is a formidable powerhouse in advanced products and
| value-add. These companies absolutely rival the best of
| what America and the West have to offer. And if your
| argument is one of demographics, these companies are
| staffed with young educated workers from a huge and
| healthy pipeline of STEM grads.
|
| I think of all the predictions about the future of China
| - from the incredibly bearish ones like Zeihan's "death
| of China", to the bullish ones that declare this the
| "Chinese century" - I think the truth lies somewhere in
| the middle.
|
| I don't see how China doesn't become a larger version of
| Japan or Germany or the US. Despite some demographic and
| economic headwinds, they've got an incredible head start.
|
| If America aims to compete and remain in the top, it
| needs to stop doing things that look like Brexit that
| lead to degrowth and isolation. China isn't magically
| going to get weaker and provide free opportunity to the
| United States. On the contrary, it's fantastic peer-level
| competition that the US should use as motivation to work
| harder.
|
| China is an incredible growth and innovation story, and a
| bar that all countries should hold themselves to. It's no
| time to slouch. Competition fosters the best innovation
| anyway.
| skippyboxedhero wrote:
| Hyperinflation? They have been exporting deflation. Wage
| inequality? It is a productivity inequality, relative to
| the US. The idea that everyone should just be paid the
| same wage is quite an odd inference when you start the
| comment with explaining how everyone else just doesn't
| understand the things you do.
|
| China moved away from the export-led model of growth
| about ten years ago (the largest exporter of deflation
| today is Germany and has been for a number of years).
|
| China does have too many people...there is nothing they
| can do about that and that will limit their living
| standards for a long time.
|
| China's future is only bleak if you are unaware of their
| history. They were poorer than every country in Africa
| bar one a few decades ago, what they have done is still
| regarded as impossible even after they did it. It is like
| winning the lottery and then grousing because there is
| someone else richer than you (which, btw, most people
| probably would do).
|
| China does not trade with the US intensively anymore. The
| US doesn't really make anything that anyone needs, and is
| a big export market but not at the margin anymore...total
| exports to the US are 3% of GDP. Their economy has been
| rebalancing for decades (again, proof that their leaders
| are just smarter...Trump is flailing around in the
| darkness with tariffs rather than actually being able to
| design good policy, China started this ten years ago and
| almost done already, it would make more sense to target
| the EU).
|
| China has a long coastline, their primary products mainly
| come through the Malacca strait...again, it is hard to
| take someone seriously who starts talking about their
| expertise in geopolitics but doesn't know which trade
| routes China actually uses.
| aianus wrote:
| This is nonsense, ~zero rich people in third world send
| their kids to study in Shanghai instead of Boston or
| immigrate to Beijing instead of NYC to park their
| capital.
|
| In fact it's the rich Chinese who continue to move to
| Vancouver and London and Irvine to escape China and have
| a better future.
| lormayna wrote:
| > Show me a place that looks like that where no-one goes
| hungry, has to worry about medical bills and doesn't live in
| fear of the rich and powerful and then I'll be impressed.
|
| You are just describing every western European country.
| bojan wrote:
| Every Western European country now. Not in the time those
| sights were built.
| chollida1 wrote:
| I mean, my family and i just spent 5 weeks over Christmas
| in Rome, Paris and London.
|
| I live in Toronto where we have our share of homelessness
| and those 3 cities put Toronto to shame with the amount of
| poverty and homelessness we saw.
|
| Europe is beautiful and does many things better than North
| America and Asia but hunger and poverty are area's where
| its just as bad if not worse.
| mc32 wrote:
| That's something that's developed over the last couple
| decades. Europe didn't have vast amounts of homelessness
| and poverty. My guess is Schengen plus lax immigration
| policies. That is compare requirements for entering the
| UAE vs Europe. Europe is less selective.
| barbazoo wrote:
| Try wealth inequality. The rich get richer, the poor get
| poorer, at some point poor becomes homeless.
| mc32 wrote:
| You're importing millions which puts pressure on housing
| and employment where they compete against locals
| depressing wages. Additionally many/majority from Eastern
| Europe, Middle East, Central Asia and Africa are semi
| skilled and unskilled who in turn either can't land a job
| or don't earn enough.
|
| People like ignoring this aspect and even deny it has any
| effect.
| graemep wrote:
| Really? So why are there food banks in the UK? Why does
| Google search remove links to personal details of multiple
| politicians in multiple European countries? For someone
| poor the top end of NHS dental treatment is a worry - even
| assuming they can find a dentist willing to take on NHS
| patients in the first place.
|
| I could go on, but there are plenty of flaws in western
| Europe
| genjo wrote:
| it's a social experiment. "if we don't do it top-down, will
| the educated and driven try to make us do better or do it
| themselves?". the answer revealed itself when architecture
| and design remained procedural but failed to emphasize and to
| build around the goal of social evolution and identity
| seeking. instead we got Gentrification, efficiency nobody
| asked for and wealth wasted on uninspired and demotivating
| pseudo-game theorists.
|
| it's funny how nobody noticed in time that the side effects
| of these many experiments destroyed more beauty &
| opportunities, especially in urban convolution and social
| convection than they have revealed in data about human nature
| and civilized networks ... "we happened to become a community
| and build around the growing desires of our children and our
| own" is something you only hear on garden plots, even though
| on the country side everywhere, people are now third and
| fourth generation heirs.
| germinalphrase wrote:
| "'we happened to become a community and build around the
| growing desires of our children and our own' is something
| you only hear on garden plots, even though on the country
| side everywhere, people are now third and fourth generation
| heirs."
|
| Meanwhile, in the US, small towns across the country are
| greying and dying out as wealth and opportunity are
| increasingly concentrated in urban areas.
| badc0ffee wrote:
| I don't understand what this means, or how it fits with the
| comment it's replying to.
| pydry wrote:
| Europe and America have no industrial strategy to speak of and
| powerful lobbies dedicated to perpetuating the war on
| affordable housing.
|
| I doubt this is something that can or will be reversed
| gradually. The consolidation of oligarchic power has been
| building up over many decades and only shows signs of
| acceleration.
|
| In order for the power structures responsible for this to be
| overturned something pretty cataclysmic will need to happen -
| losing a large scale war, economic collapse, etc. (e.g. like in
| post WW2 Japan where America dismantled and disenfranchised the
| Japanese oligarchy).
| markus_zhang wrote:
| A new cold war might help. If that happens any oligarchy with
| half a brain would have to give back some pies to the
| ordinary people.
| deeThrow94 wrote:
| For second place, maybe. China is largely out of our grasp
| without our committing pretty extreme crimes against
| humanity.
|
| Granted, we were fine with that with the first cold war,
| maybe we'll find the appetite again.
| markus_zhang wrote:
| We don't need crimes against humanity. We just need more
| pies from the oligarchs so that we can bring back
| reasonable housing, some sort of manufacturing and more
| R&D.
|
| But granted maybe most of them have less than half of a
| brain once they need to sacrifice the pies.
| yapyap wrote:
| > What amazes me is China's capacity to do development on a
| large scale, something that's completely missing in Europe. If
| we had efficient large-scale construction solved, we could
| really put a dent in the cost of living crisis, and reverse the
| overcrowding of the existing urban centers.
|
| Because China has their singular government system (one party
| dictatorship, whatever you want to call it) they can make
| really quick decisions. In democratic countries there is a lot
| of hemming and hawing cause you need everyone or a majority to
| agree with you, in China or North Korea they just snap their
| fingers and the project has to start within a few weeks or
| months.
| surajrmal wrote:
| After seeing what happens when the president tries to
| unilaterally enact orders without great care for
| ramifications, it's definitely more appealing to me that we
| tend to go slowly. I do feel like there must be a middle
| ground that's yet to be discovered though.
| screye wrote:
| In defense of democracy, this issue was less prevalent until
| the last 30 years.
|
| You don't need everyone to agree on things in a democracy.
| The issue is lack of leadership and unclear power hierarchy
| (who matters- house, senate, president, state, or courts).
|
| Democracies with clarity function well. Switzerland leans
| into state rights, and each canton operates with little
| federal overhead. The Indian president and senate are weak.
| The power of civil litigation is limited. So, if you win the
| states and the house, then you can get a lot done. The Indian
| house has a full majority and is in the middle of a building
| boom. Hell, the US built the entire interstate system in a
| democracy.
|
| IMO, the US's problem is disproportional optics. On paper,
| the House> president > Senate> courts. But media attention is
| towards courts > president > senate > house. Roe v Wade was
| the biggest story of last year, but on paper, the House
| could've made a bipartisan decision that completely overrode
| the courts. People are most interested in Presidential
| elections, but the president has little power. So you end up
| in a lame-duck Obamacare-style compromise or a Trump-style
| tariff tantrum. People democratically voted for the
| president. But turns out, that's not the person who holds
| power. The house is supposed to be all powerful, but can't
| pass a single bill. That's how you get wonky policies
| smuggled through the only unlock unblockable bill. (Budget)
|
| Democracies like any system can fail. At least with
| democracies, the bad outcome is that nothing gets done. In
| authoritarian, you get famine, genocide, or coups.
|
| Hot take, but the US should get rid of the senate and limit
| the power of civic litigation. House introduces the bill,
| President signs it. Courts step in if the bill is illegal. No
| filibuster, promote simple majorities.
| aprilthird2021 wrote:
| > What amazes me is China's capacity to do development on a
| large scale, something that's completely missing in Europe.
|
| In the US, especially with renewed appetite for "America First"
| and bringing back good paying jobs for American laborers, there
| should be a lot more building of infrastructure and housing
| units around our country... Why can China do this and we can't
| even when the government has won a mandate from people to
| empower domestic labor (for everyone who says China can only do
| this because of wealth inequality)?
| deeThrow94 wrote:
| Because of the national mandate that Big Government Is Bad
| that happened 40 years ago, as best I can piece together.
| mminer237 wrote:
| Isn't good-paying domestic labor the main part of the
| problem? Hiring thousands of manual laborers at $5/hour is a
| lot more economical than at $15/hour plus $5/hr in benefits.
| And that applies to the steel workers and lumberjacks and
| fixture manufacturers who all have to be paid more too via
| material costs.
| cosmicgadget wrote:
| What is the administration's infrastructure plan other than
| to fire a large portion of people who support it at the
| federal level?
| yusaydat wrote:
| Lots of low-quality construction work though. Anecdotally, I
| used to live in a 30-story building in one of the special
| economic zones. My building had horrendously large cracks in
| the concrete, and even though I knew rationally that it
| wouldn't come down, it didn't feel safe, especially during
| typhoons, etc.
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| Reminds me of this (from 2009):
| http://blog.pucp.edu.pe/blog/wp-
| content/uploads/sites/109/20...
| stickfigure wrote:
| > even though I knew rationally that it wouldn't come down
|
| How do you know that?
| LetMeLogin wrote:
| I was there about 12 years ago, and in all honesty, I wasn't
| impressed.
|
| The air pollution was absolutely horrific, for whole I was
| there I wasn't able to see the sun at all due to air or lack of
| it.
|
| "Green" trees were just... grey, covered with all the dust.
|
| And good luck if you want to grab a taxi and you have long hair
| :)
|
| The food was great, though.
| RadiozRadioz wrote:
| > And good luck if you want to grab a taxi and you have long
| hair
|
| Please explain
| LetMeLogin wrote:
| Pretty much when I tried to grab a taxi, and it was pretty
| much every day two times, I could see Taxi were free(no
| people inside, and now I can't remember if I was the light
| on or off, but meaning they're just free to take you) no
| one would stop for about 10 minutes. Sometimes 1 passed and
| I was able to get it, but usually it was 5-7 cars passing
| me by.... Someone mentioned people were not accustomed to
| males with long hair.
| hardwaregeek wrote:
| 12 years is an eternity in China. I went in 2008-2010 and it
| was completely unrecognizable compared to 2018. I imagine
| 2025 is completely different too
| em-bee wrote:
| vienna is doing it. there is a new neighborhood built from
| scratch on a green field. literally. a 20 year project for
| 25.000 residents and 20.000 jobs. just a few decades ago it was
| all farmland (and an unused airfield).
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seestadt_Aspern
| kubb wrote:
| I love it, and why doesn't every city do that.
| q3k wrote:
| Because of a pervasive meme that only the private sector
| should be doing this.
| Traubenfuchs wrote:
| It's an awful place and pretty much all of us Viennese that
| don't live there make fun of it.
| kubb wrote:
| What's so bad about it other than it's obviously not the
| cool, centrally located district?
|
| Well connected, long time residents who have access to
| flats in the inner city always feel superior to the
| people who move to the city after them, and have to live
| on the outskirts, that doesn't say much.
| Traubenfuchs wrote:
| 1. it's a concrete dessert
|
| 2. only every second U2 goes there
|
| 3. disregarding the doubled U2 wait times, it takes 40
| minutes to get to Karlsplatz, 46 to Stephansplatz, 47 to
| the main train station, 53 to Westbahnhof, 54 to
| Landstrasse -those times get much worse if you don't live
| centrally in Seestadt. And those times are AWFUL for
| Vienna, anything over 30 minutes is awful.
|
| 4. The ,,See" is actually a joke
|
| 5. if you live there, people won't want to visit you as
| it would take them over an hour to get home (unless you
| take a taxi or have a car)
|
| 6. is generally awful without a car -unless you live and
| work there, this is a big deal as you don't usually need
| a car in Vienna
| kubb wrote:
| Yes, it would be better if they built it closer to the
| inner city, but there's not that much space there
| anymore. Cities have to be polycentric if they want to
| scale. I'm sure a lot of people would be happy to live
| there even if the people from Vienna proper won't be able
| to come visit.
| em-bee wrote:
| those travel times are still better than any other city
| in the world that i have lived in. i am originally from
| vienna, so i know what you mean, but you have to admit
| that vienna is privileged in that regard, and the only
| other option to creating places like this would be to
| either tear down a bunch of existing buildings and
| replace them with 20 floor highrises, or a massive demand
| on existing housing, driving rents up or to generally bar
| anyone from moving to the city. vienna grew by half a
| million people in the last 2-3 decades. and that growth
| is likely to continue. these people need to go somewhere.
|
| as for the concrete desert, what are you asking for?
| isn't the inner city all asphalt and bricks too? there
| are parks. but seestadt has green spaces as well.
| according to the map it has even more than the inner
| city. but it's all new and it will take some time to feel
| comfortable and lived in. you have to start somewhere. i
| mean i get you, nobody wants a concrete desert, nor a
| concrete dessert for that matter. though the latter might
| make a good projectile to show your appreciation to the
| cook.
|
| also how is the "see" a joke? it's water. sure it's not
| the "alte donau" but from the photos it looks no worse
| than the donauinsel.
|
| my cousin waited for years to get an apartment in vienna,
| and they finally got one in the south. from the looks of
| where they ended up i think seestadt would have been a
| nicer option.
|
| north east of the danube is the only space where vienna
| can expand. there is some space to the south of vienna
| too, but not as much. and probably living in the south
| would not feel any better.
| zkmon wrote:
| The lack of capacity to build in Europe is due to age-old
| regulations, bureaucracy and very low risk appetite. All this
| has affected human competence as well, similar to caged animals
| losing their abilities.
| kmac_ wrote:
| I live in the EU and actually like that citizens are more
| important than businesses. I wish some construction laws were
| more strictly regulated, such as those concerning housing
| development. For example, in Poland, a lack of strict
| regulation has caused horrible new housing plans with
| insufficient parking spaces for apartments. There are plenty
| of similar examples.
| 1270018080 wrote:
| In this context, the "business" is... housing and
| infrastructure for people to live in and use?
|
| And don't forget the bigger picture. Businesses are jobs.
| When a country makes it so hostile for business that most
| can't even operate there, that's wages and tax revenue
| lost.
|
| The above is how Poland ends up with average apartments 8x
| the average wage.
|
| I don't even want to get into the issues with prioritizing
| cars above people. That's a whole other topic outside of
| this.
| hshdhdhj4444 wrote:
| It's missing in most European places because there's little
| need for it.
|
| When there is a need, Europe does pretty well. At least
| relative to the U.S.
|
| For example, Europe built the completely novel floodgates for
| Venice. It's been very successful as far as I'm aware when it
| was heavily doubted before and throughout its development.
|
| On the other hand, the U.S. won't even contemplate building
| something similar to protect NYC, despite the fact that Europe
| has already done it and proven the concept, and that the region
| this would protect is orders of magnitude more economically
| valuable than Venice.
|
| Similarly consider high speed rail. Italy completely
| revolutionized domestic travel by setting up excellent high
| speed rail over a few years. They did it not by government fiat
| but intelligent regulations paired with privatization and
| market rules.
|
| While it's not China scale, it's more than sufficient for
| Italy's scale.
|
| At the same time the U.S. is completely incapable of creating
| high speed rail and to the extent it has its done so by
| redefining it down.
| angled wrote:
| To me, it's better to compare China with India. Similar
| populations, yet the effects of different systems of
| government are extremely obvious.
| graemep wrote:
| Both have large populations, but have entirely different
| histories and cultures and economies.
|
| Thailand, the UK, and Tanzania have similar populations,
| that does not mean they are useful comparisons. What about
| Sri Lanka and Australia, or Syria and Taiwan?
| 124123 wrote:
| They are only similar in size. Do you mean that size is the
| only factor when doing operating a government ?
| sadeshmukh wrote:
| Because the only difference between them is their
| government, not history, not internal differences, or
| anything else?
| phillipcarter wrote:
| Partly why this is an apples-oranges comparison is that
| Italy's federal government stepped in to make it happen
| (planning, land acquisition, funding, establishing federally-
| owned corporate structure). In the US, projects like this are
| governed just as much by states as they are the federal
| government, and since the 1970s we've had a strong and
| entrenched culture of _not_ having the federal government
| step in to exert its will on a system to produce a public
| good.
|
| There's a reason why Obamacare was so fraught and ultimately
| led to a political downfall of the democrats: it spit in the
| face of private and state interests (from their perspective)
| to undercut what they'd grown to do in the previous 40 years.
| This good, but ultimately half-hearted measure, is only a
| fraction of the kind of political willpower needed to
| transform the federal state into something that can build
| infrastructure again.
| kjkjadksj wrote:
| They do spend on these things. The army corp of engineers
| is planning a 53 billion dollar project for nyc harbor and
| sea protection to be built in 2030 or so.
| blacksmith_tb wrote:
| US infrastructure is increasingly terrible, true. But high-
| speed rail isn't probably what I'd point to as the most
| glaring problem. No doubt the TGV and Shinkansen are
| impressive, but the longest route in Japan (Tokyo-Aomori) is
| 675km compared to 4000km from Los Angeles to NYC (assuming
| you could it make a straight line, which you couldn't). Not
| to say I wouldn't be delighted to even have service from San
| Diego to Seattle, a mere 1800km.
| DiogenesKynikos wrote:
| Everything east of the Mississippi could be connected by
| high-speed rail.
|
| Chicago to NYC is about the same distance as Beijing to
| Shanghai (1200 km), and that only takes 4.5 hours in China.
|
| The fact that HSR doesn't make sense between LA and NYC is
| no excuse for not building it in the large parts of the
| country where it makes sense.
| 124123 wrote:
| yeah exactly, the first benefit of trains is to
| substitute for short but frequent flights between major
| cities.
| analog31 wrote:
| I think of this, every time it takes me more than 4 hours
| to "fly" 150 miles to the Chicago airport, when you count
| all of the overhead at the two ends, plus average delays
| and cancellations.
|
| Actually, I take the intercity bus.
| jakeinspace wrote:
| You can just switch trains in Tokyo and continue on to
| Fukuoka on the Nozomi Shinkansen. That's another 1000km. 8
| hours travel time, with a 10 minute layover is quite nice,
| I've taken most of that ride (Aomori to Hiroshima). That
| would be like what, Miami to NY? Or Houston to Chicago.
| 124123 wrote:
| but why would you build such a long route ? just build
| train along the coast lines should have plenty benefit.
| screye wrote:
| Most US HSR routes are envisioned planned along similar
| corridors as the EU ones.
|
| DC - Philly- NYC - Boston
|
| SF - LA - SD
|
| Chicago - Detroit - Toronto
|
| Miami - Orlando - Jacksonville
| rsynnott wrote:
| The longest high-speed line is 2,760 km (in China; Beijing
| to Kunming). I actually don't think an LA to NYC line is
| _that_ absurd an idea; at 350km/h you'd do it in 11 hours
| (in practice somewhat more with stops). But east coast and
| west coast lines would be more plausible.
| criddell wrote:
| > Europe built the completely novel floodgates for Venice
|
| That's wild! How do you convince people in Latvia or Norway
| that they should help pay for infrastructure like that in
| Italy?
|
| If Manhattan wants flood gates, NY will have to build them.
| At some point, they will probably have to because the cost of
| insurance will exceed the cost of the bonds needed to build.
| blackguardx wrote:
| There are typically federal grants for major infrastructure
| projects. The Hoover Dam, for example, was entirely paid
| for by federal dollars. Many bridges also have federal
| backing and the interstate highway system is subsidized.
| This is because good infrastructure helps increase the GDP
| and benefits everyone in the country.
| eynsham wrote:
| The European Investment Bank provided EUR1.5b of funding.1
| EIB decisions don't generally attract lots of attention
| from member states other than those concerned, since it is
| generally understood that the EIB is funding lots of
| projects in member states simultaneously. Similarly, the
| budget of the Commission and similar bodies will generally
| be set in advance, usually with a formal or informal
| understanding as to the broad distribution of funds between
| member states that will follow.
|
| In any case, this project seems to me to be no more
| extraordinary than the redistributive effects of e.g.
| Medicaid or Pentagon spending, or the construction of
| Interstates. The Interstates, in the present US political
| environment, might indeed seem extraordinary; but the
| question is then not how one convinces people from state A
| to spend on state B, but how to convince people to make
| large long-term investments in the first place.
|
| 1: https://web.archive.org/web/20130111042126/http://archiv
| iost...
| rsynnott wrote:
| Wait, doesn't the US Army Corps of Engineers do some of
| that sort of thing?
| cyanydeez wrote:
| Keep in mind China has construction more than just from
| population capacity; it's also a shell game for local
| districts to get taxes and for "investment" by locals who are
| told it'll always go up, just like the American market.
|
| And then at the top level, China views it as a "make work"
| project to keep industry going.
| thenthenthen wrote:
| I would not consider CQ comfortable. Shanghai is 1000x more
| comfortable.
| alwa wrote:
| What criteria do you consider when you think about comfort in
| this sense?
|
| The (always-credulous) Guardian seems to go based on
| photogenic shopping centers/bars and raw square footage:
|
| _"A flat in Chongqing costs a seventh of what it would cost
| in Beijing or Shanghai and is twice as big."_
|
| Presumably your criteria might be more subtle?
| thenthenthen wrote:
| CQ: The weather is quite extreme, getting around is pretty
| hard, the crazy amount of tourist during the Holidays is
| overwhelming, the wages are lower, less job opportunities.
| Shanghai is flat, weather is moderate sea climate, food
| from all over the world, as well as bars, the highest
| amount of coffeeshops in the world (not really my thing)
| but most importantly, walkable, whilst CQ is more...
| hikeable...
| dheera wrote:
| Chongqing has better food.
| thelastgallon wrote:
| Because the western world (and rest of the world following
| western world) has one rule (the only rule): make the super
| rich richer, everything else is just marketing to accomplish
| that.
|
| Home prices are completely out of reach for most people in UK,
| Canada, New Zealand, Australia (coming soon to a country near
| you!). You're overpaying to live like a 1920's postman:
| https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tGPHcteG9dY
|
| Create artificial scarcity (by zoning, monopolies, regulatory
| capture), buy assets (never have to improve any assets because
| there is no competition, no functional market of competitors
| producing better housing), extract wealth forever by maximizing
| rents and asset prices.
| SamPatt wrote:
| Housing shortages aren't a result of some nefarious plot to
| make the super rich richer.
|
| It's more complex than that. We need to build more housing,
| and there are various reasons why that isn't happening. Many
| of them are well-intentioned and even good (high safety
| standards dramatically increase the cost of new buildings).
| graemep wrote:
| The main reason for high prices is not shortages, its low
| interest rates.
| GoatInGrey wrote:
| It's remarkable to see how intuitive supply and demand
| laws are for many individuals until it comes to one
| particular market: housing.
| graemep wrote:
| Are you being sarcastic? Housing is a good example of how
| people fail to understand supply and demand. People
| usually talk as though supply and demand are fixed
| quantities rather than curves against price.
| surajrmal wrote:
| Interest rates have gone up and housing prices haven't
| changed much. The average monthly mortgage payment for
| 20% down 30 year fixed mortgages have shot up though.
| Something makes me feel like it's not just interest
| rates.
| screye wrote:
| In practice, it turns out not to be true. I am speaking for
| the US which I know better.
|
| Many environment protections are farcical. (SJ earthworm
| fiasco). Many building regulations are intentionally
| difficult with little added safety (2 fire exits). Avenues
| for litigation and local activism increase delays and
| costs. Widespread demarcation of cities as historic
| (despite being run of the mill post war builds) makes
| redevelopment impossible.
|
| I don't particularly care about intentions. I'm sure Mao
| thought he was doing the right thing by shooting down
| sparrows.
|
| The outcomes matter, and the outcomes mean supply crunch,
| cost inflation and massive weather transfer to home owners
| (old and rich) from home buyers (middle class and young).
| graemep wrote:
| > No doubt it's a comfortable place to live for many people,
|
| It does not look very comfortable to me. Lots of huge
| residential tower blocks, one that has a metro line running
| THROUGH it, a bookshop with shelves that are not reachable.
|
| All those in a curated set of pictures!
| apexalpha wrote:
| The Netherlands grew by 1 million people between 2015 and 2025,
| roughly 6,5% increase in population.
|
| And (almost) everyone has a house.
|
| Except we don't build flats and suburban one-house-fits-all
| massive construction projects. We mostly do smallscale
| development times a 1000, in stead of one big one.
|
| We think it results in better cities.
|
| Though, it is true we should build even more.
| alephnan wrote:
| > And (almost) everyone has a house.
|
| How come the Netherlands has the most pronounced housing
| shortage for university students compared to other countries
| ? Is it because everyone is AirBnb'ing their first and second
| homes out to tourists?
|
| It's so bad that international students are forced to decline
| university and graduate school offers. I know because I am in
| that boat.
|
| https://nltimes.nl/2025/04/22/housing-shortage-
| netherlands-r...
|
| https://www.goinconnect.com/success-stories/the-student-
| hous...
| apexalpha wrote:
| Housing in the Netherlands is complex, it's not a free
| market.
|
| Out of a total of ~8 million homes:
|
| - 4.6 million are owned by the people who live in them.
|
| - 2.3 million are owned by social housing corporations. You
| have to join a waitlist for these, you can't outbid
| someone.
|
| And then lastly:
|
| - 1 million houses are "free rentals". But this means they
| are open to anyone, they are still rent-controlled.
|
| You, together with _all_ other international people, as
| well as many Dutch people who can 't buy and also aren't
| eligible for social housing are playing musical chairs with
| only ~13% of the total housing in our country.
| kubb wrote:
| Apparently you have a housing shortage of 400k homes, rents
| increase 5% YoY, and residents spend more than 20% of their
| income on housing.
|
| Your cities _are_ great though, I love the Netherlands.
| apexalpha wrote:
| Rent increase is not an indicator of the housing market in
| our country, like it i s in many others.
|
| The Netherlands is 100% rent-controlled.
|
| The 5% increase is because it's tied to inflation, which
| makes the last few years an anomaly for rent increases.
|
| But yes we do need to build _a lot_ more. I was just
| pointing out that saying "the West doesn't build anymore"
| isn't true, we just can't keep up with massive increases in
| population due to migration.
| Veedrac wrote:
| I don't think you're understanding the comparison here. The
| Chongqing metro area in 2015 had a population of 13.4m, today
| it's 18.2m, a 4.8m difference, or 36% growth.
|
| The Netherlands went from 16.9 to 18.1 today, a 1.2m
| difference or 7.1% growth. Good by nobody-builds-anything
| regulatory paralysis standards. Standstill by Chongqing
| standards.
| amunozo wrote:
| The Netherlands has the biggest housing crisis of continental
| Europe, too.
| idiotsecant wrote:
| The more critical things that China is doing well is
| _infrastructure_. They have DC transmission networks, solar,
| and hydro at a scale unheard of in the rest of the world. They
| 're depositing into a savings account right now that will pay
| them massive dividends for a century or more. They're making
| the investment that made the US a world superpower that we are
| no longer willing to make at scale. It's a matter of time until
| China is the world hegemony. I don't know what that looks like
| for the world, but it's certainly bad for the US. If the
| populist politicians currently in charge of the US were
| _actually_ interested in the public good they would be pouring
| money into works projects the likes of which haven 't been seen
| in almost a century here in the US.
| rado wrote:
| In a walking video from there, it had incredibly clean random
| streets
| Havoc wrote:
| How accessible is this for western tourists?
| decimalenough wrote:
| About the same as the rest of China, meaning not very
| accessible, but not impossible either. There's a major airport,
| you need WeChat/Alipay for everything (but you can now easily
| set up foreign credit cards for these), approximately nobody
| speaks English but translation apps work and tour guides are
| cheap, the Great Firewall is a hassle but roaming SIMs can
| bypass it.
|
| The sheer spice level of the food is a challenge though, even
| other Chinese think that Chongqing level spiciness is nuts.
| lifty wrote:
| So, very accessible
| Snoozus wrote:
| Most EU passports get 30 days visa free entry, everything is
| quite inexpensive, the super apps both have a translation
| feature now, which helps a lot since most restaurants take
| orders through them. It is super safe, no theft, almost no
| scams. Hotels and train trips on trip.com. The main challenges
| are to find a non smoking hotel room and to not gain too much
| weight.
| lossolo wrote:
| Like any other country from my POV. I was in Chongqing last
| month.
| sagacity wrote:
| German television made a very interesting documentary about the
| city a few months back: https://youtu.be/p49QRxO_n2c
| rasso wrote:
| Interesting - not available for me (in Germany!)...
| andrioni wrote:
| It's a ZDF documentary, I imagine DW only got the rights to
| show the translation outside of Germany.
|
| Here's a link to the original:
| https://www.zdf.de/video/dokus/megacitys-wenn-es-nacht-
| wird-...
| feverzsj wrote:
| The city is also famous for its hot and humid climate. Locals
| have to eat lots of spicy foods to make their life a little bit
| easier. You won't last more than a week there.
| master_crab wrote:
| So it's just Chinese Houston? Got it. I'll pass. Done it once.
| I don't have enough shirts in the world for that humidity.
| refactor_master wrote:
| I've been there. It's crazy how the smell of spicy hotpot
| permeates every street.
|
| And it's also crazy the spice levels they're used to. It's the
| only place in China I've seen Wei Wei La ("very very little
| spicy"). And it was still incredibly spicy!
| sampullman wrote:
| It gets hot and there's a couple days each year it's probably
| best to stay inside, but it's really not that bad. I'd take
| Chongqing over Jakarta or Kuala Lumpur, personally (in terms of
| weather).
| IncreasePosts wrote:
| Doesn't sweat stop working in hot+humid climates, since it
| doesn't evaporate?
| hskalin wrote:
| Yes. It feels like hell
| Havoc wrote:
| How does spicy food help with hot & humid?
| freetime2 wrote:
| Those photos are fantastic.
| encom wrote:
| >Rail line going through an apartment building.
|
| Absolutely hellish.
| mathverse wrote:
| I am totally uninterested in China mainly due to them being so
| hostile to foreigners. Yes cities are impressive, technology and
| culture as well. But you are not welcome. At all.
|
| You are sometimes not even tolerated.
|
| And because of that your time in that country will be always
| limited. If China was to become like BKK or other SEA countries
| ....
|
| That's another story.
| dinkblam wrote:
| > I am totally uninterested in China mainly due to them being
| so hostile to foreigners
|
| I am totally interested in the USA mainly due to them being so
| very welcoming to foreigners and migrants
| lifty wrote:
| What are you talking about?
| bsnnkv wrote:
| There is a very interesting and fast-growing (video) niche of
| African Americans who have moved to China sharing their
| experiences of daily life in different Chinese areas ranging
| from these megacities to rural towns and villages.
|
| The common thread throughout these videos is how much safer it
| feels to be black in China vs. America, and more generally how
| welcoming and friendly China is to foreigners (in stark
| contrast to the expectations that were set for them by non-
| Chinese people repeating comments like the parent comment here)
| ailun wrote:
| The person you're replying to is ridiculous and ignorant. But
| also many of the creators you're talking about are paid by
| the Chinese government. If they're living in China on an
| ongoing basis creating content it's almost certain. Even if
| they're not paid, you have to be careful what you post if
| you're building a life in China.
|
| That's not to say that they are completely wrong or lying.
| China is safer than the US in almost every way, for everyone.
| But racism manifests differently there. I was in the country
| through the entire Covid pandemic. Ask the African community
| in Guangzhou how they were treated.
| bsnnkv wrote:
| > Even if they're not paid, you have to be careful what you
| post if you're building a life in China.
|
| This is the case in most western countries now, especially
| if you post anything related to Palestine. Besides the US,
| the situation in France, Germany and the UK is quite
| concerning these days.
|
| As an immigrant to the US I now have to fear being abducted
| on the street by ICE "officers" who present no
| identification and conceal their identities, being
| arbitrarily detailed and tortured at airports[1], being
| held incommunicado without due process, and being shipped
| off to CECOT for the rest of my life.
|
| [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/us-
| news/2025/mar/18/germany-inve...
| ailun wrote:
| Yes, absolutely criminal and true. The US is quickly
| going down a dark path. That doesn't make what I said
| about China any less true.
| bsnnkv wrote:
| > That doesn't make what I said about China any less
| true.
|
| Just in case we meet again in another comment thread, I
| wasn't suggesting this; I was hoping that quoting a
| specific part of your comment would communicate that I
| was replying directly to that part without questioning
| the veracity of the rest of your comment
| ailun wrote:
| Sorry. Online discourse has poisoned my brain.
| camilo2025 wrote:
| Being black in the USA is a never ending nightmare, though.
| The United States of America is a complete shithole for so
| many people
| jonahx wrote:
| This is not borne out by immigration data (to say the
| least):
|
| https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/01/27/key-
| findi...
| _fat_santa wrote:
| I have to say I didn't really have an interest in visiting China
| until I saw pictures of Chongqing. I spent a whole night one day
| watching walking videos in that city and vertical nature of it is
| just incredible.
| throwaway743 wrote:
| You should definitely go. I haven't been to Chongqing myself,
| but I spent a month in Beijing, two weeks in Shanghai, and a
| week in Baotou, and each place offered a completely different
| experience.
|
| My personal favorite was Beijing. Honestly, it felt like
| stepping into another world, with a vibe unlike anywhere else I
| have been, even compared to Shanghai or other East Asian cities
| like Tokyo. The people were incredibly warm and friendly, the
| street food was outstanding, the environment felt almost
| otherworldly, and the historical sites were phenomenal. Getting
| lost in the hutongs felt like its own adventure, the punk
| culture was alive and thriving, and the art district was the
| best I have experienced (even coming from New York City). If
| you skate, it's a paradise with spots everywhere you turn.
| Public transportation and taxis were also super affordable,
| clean, and efficient.
|
| Shanghai was cool too, but it felt much more familiar. At its
| core, it reminded me of Manhattan, just more intense. The
| people there also gave off a similar vibe to New Yorkers. If
| you are into electronics, it's a great place to explore,
| although I hear Shenzhen is really the true hub for that.
|
| Baotou felt a lot more desolate but also very peaceful. I spent
| most of my time there on a farm and hiking around the Gobi
| Desert though.
|
| One thing to be aware of is the air quality in Beijing and
| Shanghai. On bad days, you would come back with black snot. I
| was a smoker at the time, which did not help, but even non-
| smokers experienced it. There always seemed to be random
| particles or even feathers floating in the air lol.
|
| As someone who skates, I found the police and security
| surprisingly relaxed. They would usually let you skate for a
| while before politely asking you to move along. The only
| unsettling thing I witnessed was a group of officers with SMGs
| escorting someone out of Tsinghua University.
|
| The saddest thing I saw was the desperate poverty on the
| outskirts of Beijing. There were large piles of trash, open
| sewage, and pollution. At one point, a concerned local pulled
| over and told us to turn around because of violent protests
| between farmers and the government up ahead. The outskirts of
| Shanghai showed similar poverty, though without the protests.
|
| That said, aside from the outskirts and days of bad air
| quality, all three cities were incredibly clean, especially
| compared to New York.
|
| This was all about 15 years ago, so I imagine a lot has changed
| since then.
|
| Still, I would absolutely recommend going. If you can, spend
| time in places that feel unfamiliar, especially Beijing. It's
| an experience you will never forget.
| barbazoo wrote:
| Fascinating. But not a single picture showing a non polluted sky.
| topspin wrote:
| The "Eling Palace complex" photo is interesting. In the midst
| of all the "rooftop gardens, terraces, stairways, promenades
| and metal screens," someone nailed up about 4 meters of razor
| wire on the exterior wall.
|
| Not paradise then.
| rcpt wrote:
| I see countless US stories about how "family farmers defend
| themselves from evil development" or "Oakland residents suffer
| the effects of global trade booming in their city". But when I
| read about China's incredible growth nothing like that is ever
| mentioned. Why is that?
| arrosenberg wrote:
| The CCP has a pretty tight grip on the domestic narrative. The
| farmers in China have no agency to complain. US farmers, on the
| other hand, are a powerful constituency, especially the
| consolidated, corporate entities.
| yieldcrv wrote:
| Multiple things at play here
|
| For candid Chinese dissidence there are a couple of tolerated
| zones on wechat, like an American Embassy's wechat page. Its
| not protected, people just use it that way sometimes. And you
| just have to learn some of the slang.
|
| There are in person clashes sometimes. The municipal level
| isn't as quick to seem every little action as an affront to the
| territorial unity of China, which is against the Chinese
| constitution.
|
| The social safety nets are very expansive and work decent for
| the population. Housing, healthcare, busy work for income.
| stevenwoo wrote:
| Chinese citizens actually can stand up to private developers.
| Not so much stuff like the Three Gorges Dam. The developers
| just build right around them. It pops up as a single photo with
| one of these homes on reddit sometimes but CNN ran a story a
| decade ago, there's even a name for the way the home sticks
| out. https://www.cnn.com/2015/05/19/asia/gallery/china-nail-
| house...
| jimt1234 wrote:
| I visited Chongqing when I lived in Shanghai around 2002. People
| regarded it as an insignificant city back then - everyone was so
| fixated on Shanghai and Beijing. Anyway, Chongqing was under
| major construction, as was most of the country. But I remember
| the locals used to say that when you walked to work in the
| morning you needed to leave a trail of rice because the city
| changes so rapidly that you'll never find your way home by the
| time your shift is done. LOL
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| Chongqing became an autonomous city back in 1998, so it wasn't
| considered that insignificant (not to mention it was the
| wartime capital of China during WW2). However, as a city (vs a
| state-like municipality), I think Chengdu has passed it...eg
| chengdu has more people passing through its airports.
| seanmcdirmid wrote:
| As a city in western terms, Chongqing only has around 8 million
| people, and is not even in the top twenty of Chinese cities. If
| you include the entire municipality that is the size of Vermont,
| it's largely rural with other cities inside it (so 31 million
| people total, 22 million urban, 8 million for Chongqing proper).
| Compare with Beijing which has around 10 million in its proper
| area (inside 5th ring) and 20 million people total.
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