[HN Gopher] Top Colleges Are Too Costly Even for Parents Making ...
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Top Colleges Are Too Costly Even for Parents Making $300k
Author : littlexsparkee
Score : 29 points
Date : 2025-04-26 17:48 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bloomberg.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bloomberg.com)
| littlexsparkee wrote:
| https://archive.ph/16fsy
| echelon wrote:
| We've been talking about this for two decades at this point.
| Nothing is happening because too many people are willing to go in
| debt to get their degree. Free loans & Easy
| admissions Loans carry no risk
| | v Ample money supply for
| universities & no pressure to cut costs
| | v Increase in budget and
| expenses University FOMO for not being
| competitive on shiny offerings (Admin, fancy facilities,
| etc.) | v
| Perpetually raising costs Students take bigger loans
| | v Student loan crisis
|
| It's a perverse positive feedback system.
|
| The easiest lever to pull is adjusting the student loan
| situation. Students need to be able to discharge their debt,
| which will put risk calculus back into the equation. STEM
| degrees, graduation rates, degree value, and student academic
| performance will be directly correlated with risk.
|
| Under these changes, a student with so-so academics going to an
| expensive school for art history won't work anymore. STEM degrees
| at local community colleges will be affordable and abundant.
| That's what the country needs rather than a system that buys
| fancy academic buildings.
|
| Our ancestors could make do with learning in decrepit old
| buildings. They didn't have staycation amenities. They turned
| that into incredible productive value and didn't go into debt.
| That's what we need again.
|
| If we want to continue to provide access as a matter of policy,
| then we should make universities meet strict standards on budget
| and degree cost to offer non-dischargeable loans to students.
| Then universities can decide whether they want to meet those
| eligibility requirements or continue inflating their own costs.
| The market will fix itself.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| People go into debt for the credential because employers
| require the credential. If employers provided training and did
| not require a degree, you'd see demand evaporate. Instead, they
| require a degree the role may not even need, which externalizes
| the cost onto the student and future candidate (who then goes
| into debt as a gamble to increase future lifetime earnings). A
| college degree was marketed as a ticket to a secure, middle
| class life, and that marketing has been seen through.
|
| _Why US Men Think College Isn't Worth It Anymore_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43788914 - April 2025
|
| _Pew Reseach: Is College Worth It?_ -
| https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/05/23/is-coll...
| - May 23rd, 2024
|
| There is some progress here on companies removing the
| credential requirement, and the situation should improve as
| labor supply continues to decline into the future due to
| structural demographics (forcing employers to loosen hiring
| requirements).
|
| Learn a trade, get a CDL (~$5k), etc.
| elteto wrote:
| Corporations can (and should) provide training for
| tradespeople, but you can't do the same for specialized
| degrees, like engineering. To train engineers it takes 4-5
| years of academic + project work, which is what colleges and
| universities provide. There's nothing wrong with degrees,
| what we have in the US is a broken aid system with perverse
| incentives around the financing of such degrees. Don't
| conflate one thing with the other.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| I don't disagree that there is a legit need for engineering
| degree holding workers, but, how many folks in the US are
| getting engineering degrees just to check a box to get a
| job that requires a degree? This is a distinct issue versus
| dysfunctional funding of necessary degree paths.
| potato3732842 wrote:
| >People go into debt for the credential because employers
| require the credential.
|
| The beautiful thing is that making the debt dischargeable
| fixes all that.
|
| Nobody will write a loan for your slapdash STEM program that
| doesn't actually correlate with earnings.
|
| Same goes for a basket weaving degree from a prestigious
| university.
|
| >Learn a trade, get a CDL (~$5k), etc.
|
| Spoken like someone who's never been with spitting distance
| of either. They are not at all easy money compared to office
| stuff. The trades are all regulatory captured by the
| professional associations, licensing bodies, etc so you'll
| toil for 4-10yr making peanuts while you destroy your bodies
| and sometimes you can't even make the big bucks without going
| into business yourself and taking on huge risk. CDL jobs are
| all 60hr a week slogs, more if your company has someone
| overseas editing the E-logs which a good chunk of them do.
|
| If you can hack it an office job that requires "real math" is
| almost universally better.
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| I have a CDL and have driven a Class 8 semi for a short
| stint (it's a valuable life skill from an optionality
| perspective imho). I did let the hazmat endorsement expire
| though. A family member was a long haul truck driver, I am
| familiar with the industry and what the experience is. As
| long as trucks are used to transport, it's an economic
| option requiring minimal investment.
| tonetegeatinst wrote:
| I got a stem degree via community college, but had to goto a
| state college and get a bachelor in the same degree for
| employers to even consider hiring me or being able to move up
| in a company.
|
| I have a associates in science in cyber security, most credits
| didn't transfer to a bachelor's of science in cybwrsecurity
| program despite both being public schools and not private
| colleges. Its set my education back years all because most jobs
| demand a bachelor's and certifications.
| musicale wrote:
| It is also hard to discharge student loan debt in bankruptcy.
| NoWordsKotoba wrote:
| 15 years ago when I was still in college in the US, the new
| president of the school came to give a speech to some incoming
| freshman. In that speech he talked a lot about how colleges were
| businesses and that the goal was to make them appealing to new
| students (new gyms, updated dorms, better stadiums, etc...). I
| knew in that moment that higher education had been overtaken by
| the MBAs. I guarantee that a school that focuses on education
| solely will not only be cheaper, but get the type of students
| that actually want to learn.
| tssva wrote:
| My daughter will be starting in the fall at a private STEM
| focused university. They pride themselves on being a difficult
| school which throws you right into the deep end. They have no
| fancy gyms, the dorms are basic cinder block buildings without
| any fancy conveniences including no AC. The dining hall is very
| basic with limited food stations. It is very much inline with
| the amenities or lack of at my college when I was a freshmen in
| 1987. It has 1 D1 sport with the rest being D3. It is located
| in a mostly rural area.
|
| The other finalist school she didn't choose is also private but
| has every amenity under the sun. The newer dorms which she
| would have been in because of her major have state of the art
| gyms inside them and parking garages under them which she would
| have been assigned a spot in. Multiple dining facilities whith
| a wide range of high quality food. The school has a full array
| of D1 sports programs and new atheletic facilities built within
| the last 5-15 years. It is located in a large metropolitan
| area. It doesn't have near the same quality of academics as her
| choice.
|
| The estimated cost of attendance for 25-26 is with $500 of each
| other. Both being around $89k before any aid. She doesn't
| qualify for federal financial aid. Luckily both offered very
| substantial merit aid. She did also consider one of our state
| schools. Although not as nice as the private she didn't choose
| it is much closer to that than the school she did choose. They,
| along with all our state schools, are known for giving almost
| no aid beyond federal financial aid. The cost to attend would
| have been more than the two private schools after their merit
| aid awards.
|
| I guess my point is they get you whether they give you
| amenities or not and whether they are private or public.
| elteto wrote:
| Precisely, if the tuition increases had generally gone into
| improving students lives at least it would serve as a sort of
| crappy consolation price. But the reality is that a high tide
| floats all boats, big or small, crappy or great. They are all
| charging outrageous tuition and making a fortune at the
| expense of the future of these students.
| washadjeffmad wrote:
| When discussing results of a housing interest poll to
| prospective students at a cabinet meeting of a local
| university, members were dismayed that "high speed wifi" and
| "access to printing services" topped the list, and that none
| from their favored category of "luxury amenities" like
| discounts on cable television packages and smart appliances
| ranked at all.
|
| The initial correspondence was also addressed to "the parents
| of $student".
|
| Someone certainly felt confident in their clever little scheme
| to milk their endless supply of cash cows.
| techpineapple wrote:
| 300k is not rich, 300k in 2025 is like 90,000 in 1982. How is the
| aristocracy supposed to maintain their dominance if just anyone
| can go to a top college? You can't risk a middle class family
| sending they're kids to a school that may qualify them for a top
| job in law or politics.
| 0_____0 wrote:
| And 90k in 1982 was what, the change between the couch
| cushions?
| tiahura wrote:
| 90k in 82 was country club eligible.
| mikestew wrote:
| When I went to a top engineering school in 1982, we were told
| that when we graduated we could expect to make $35K/year as CS
| grads. Whoo hoo! Hello, upper middle class!
|
| $90K/year in 1982 was fuckin' rolling in it.
| AStonesThrow wrote:
| I think another factor at work here is analogous to our broken
| system of health care billing vs. insurance companies.
|
| Scholarships and financial aid will basically expand as necessary
| to meet tuition demands for students. Therefore, the colleges can
| name their price, as it is basically funny-money, and any given
| student will be on a combination of scholarship, FAFSA, mom/dad
| funds, loans.
|
| In fact it is sort of a joke. When I was in community college,
| Phi Theta Kappa made overtures to recruit me. One of their
| seminars featured a few students who had earned a lot of
| scholarships by virtue of their membership and service. And I do
| mean "a lot". I think one of the figures tossed out there was $23
| million in scholarships. For a community college student. And to
| think I was baffled how to spend an extra $500 or so kicking
| around.
|
| I got really disillusioned, even with community college, after my
| final years there. It seemed that the tuition was the right
| price, and all the instructors were highly credentialed,
| knowledgeable, and helpful. The classes themselves were great.
| But the whole package was draining, and exhausting. It was like a
| neverending exposition of clubs, events, deals, and engagement.
| Every table on the mall, every student leader next to me, was
| simply dying to gain my loyalty, membership, and engagement in
| whatever they had going on. And I personally could not keep a lid
| on that, so I just sort of got torn to pieces. I was in 5 clubs
| and doing honors and all kinds of extra stuff that just wore me
| out.
|
| All I had wanted to do was just Take some Classes, Earn the
| Credits, and get out of there. But that is not a satisfactory
| goal for the colleges of today.
| kylehotchkiss wrote:
| USC is $100,000 a year? How likely is that degree to net you
| $400,000 of value through your career?
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(page generated 2025-04-26 23:01 UTC)