[HN Gopher] OpenAI releases image generation in the API
___________________________________________________________________
OpenAI releases image generation in the API
Author : themanmaran
Score : 471 points
Date : 2025-04-24 19:27 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (openai.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (openai.com)
| minimaxir wrote:
| Pricing-wise, this API is going to be hard to justify the value
| unless you really can get value out of providing references. A
| generated `medium` 1024x1024 is $0.04/image, which is in the same
| cost class as Imagen 3 and Flux 1.1 Pro. Testing from their new
| playground (https://platform.openai.com/playground/images), the
| medium images are indeed lower quality than either of of two
| competitor models and still takes 15+ seconds to generate:
| https://x.com/minimaxir/status/1915114021466017830
|
| Prompting the model is also substantially more different and
| difficult than traditional models, unsurprisingly given the way
| the model works. The traditional image tricks don't work out-of-
| the-box and I'm struggling to get something that works without
| significant prompt augmentation (which is what I suspect was used
| for the ChatGPT image generations)
| tough wrote:
| It seems to me like this is a new hybrid product for -vibe
| coders- beacuse otherwise the -wrapping- of prompting/improving
| a prompt with an LLM before hitting the text2image model can
| certainly be done as you say cheaper if you just run it
| yourself.
|
| maybe OpenAI thinks model business is over and they need to
| start sherlocking all the way from the top to final apps (Thus
| their interest on buying out cursor, finally ending up with
| windsurf)
|
| Idk this feels like a new offering between a full raw API and a
| final product where you abstract some of it for a few cents,
| and they're basically bundling their SOTA llm models with their
| image models for extra margin
| vineyardmike wrote:
| > It seems to me like this is a new hybrid product for -vibe
| coders- beacuse otherwise the -wrapping- of
| prompting/improving a prompt with an LLM before hitting the
| text2image model can certainly be done as you say cheaper if
| you just run it yourself.
|
| In case you didn't know, it's not just wrapping in an LLM.
| The image model they're referencing is a model that's
| directly integrated into the LLM for functionality. It's not
| possible to extract, because the LLM outputs tokens which are
| part of the image itself.
|
| That said, they're definitely trying to focus on building
| products over raw models now. They want to be a consumer
| subscription instead of commodity model provider.
| tough wrote:
| Right! I forgot the new model was a multi-modal one
| generating image outputs from both image and text inputs, i
| guess this is good and price will come down eventually.
|
| waiting for some FOSS multi-modal model to come out
| eventually too
|
| great to see openAI expanding into making actual usable
| products i guess
| spilldahill wrote:
| yeah, the integration is the real shift here. by embedding
| image generation into the LLM's token stream, it's no
| longer a pipeline of separate systems but a single unified
| model interface. that unlocks new use cases where you can
| reason, plan, and render all in one flow. it's not just
| about replacing diffusion models, it's about making
| generation part of a broader agentic loop. pricing will
| drop over time, but the shift in how you build with this is
| the more interesting part.
| doctorpangloss wrote:
| It's far and away the most powerful image model right now.
| $0.04/image is a decent price!
| arevno wrote:
| This is extremely domain-specific. Diffusion models work much
| better for certain things.
| thot_experiment wrote:
| Can you cite an example? I'm really curious where that set
| of usecases lies.
| koakuma-chan wrote:
| Explicit adult content.
| thot_experiment wrote:
| False. That has nothing to do with the model architecture
| and everything to do with cloud inference providers
| wanting to avoid regulatory scrutiny.
| echelon wrote:
| I work in the space. There are a lot of use cases that
| get censored by OpenAI, Kling, Runway, and various other
| providers for a wide variety of reasons:
|
| - OpenAI is notorious for blocking copyrighted
| characters. They do prompt keyword scanning, but also run
| a VLM on the results so you can't "trick" the model.
|
| - Lots of providers block public figures and celebrities.
|
| - Various providers block LGBT imagery, even safe for
| work prompts. Kling is notorious for this.
|
| - I was on a sales call with someone today who runs a
| father's advocacy group. I don't know what system he was
| using, but he said he found it impossible to generate an
| adult male with a child. In a totally safe for work
| context.
|
| - Some systems block "PG-13" images of characters that
| are in bathing suits or scantily clad.
|
| None of this is porn, mind you.
| thot_experiment wrote:
| Sure but that has nothing to do with the model
| architecture and everything to do with the cloud
| inference providers wanting to cover their asses.
| throwaway314155 wrote:
| What does any of that have to do with the distinction
| between diffusion vs. autoregressive models?
| echelon wrote:
| I don't think so. This model kills the need for Flux,
| ComfyUI, LoRAs, fine tuning, and pretty much everything
| that's come before it.
|
| This is the god model in images right now.
|
| I don't think open source diffusion models can catch up
| with this. From what I've heard, this model took a huge
| amount of money to train that not even Black Forest Labs
| has access to.
| thot_experiment wrote:
| ComfyUI supports 4o natively so you get the best of both
| worlds, there is so much that you can't do with 4o
| because there's a fundamental limit on the level of
| control you can have over image generation when your
| conditioning is just tokens in an autoregressive model.
| There's plenty of reason to use comfy even if 4o is part
| of your workflow.
|
| As for LoRAs and fine tuning and open source in general;
| if you've ever been to civit.ai it should be immediately
| obvious why those things aren't going away.
| AuryGlenz wrote:
| 95% of what I do with image models is train
| LoRAs/finetune family and friends and create images of
| them.
|
| Sure, I can ghiblify specific images of them on this
| model, but anything approaching realistic changes their
| looks. I've also done specific LoRAs for things that may
| or may not be in their training data, such as specific
| movies.
| simonw wrote:
| It may lose against other models on prompt-to-image, but I'd be
| very excited to see another model that's as good at this one as
| image+prompt-to-image. Editing photos with ChatGPT over the
| past few weeks has been SO much fun.
|
| Here's my dog in a pelican costume:
| https://bsky.app/profile/simonwillison.net/post/3lneuquczzs2...
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| The dog ChatGPT generated doesn't actually look like your
| dog. The eyes are so different. Really cute image, though.
| furyofantares wrote:
| I find prompting the model substantially easier than
| traditional models, is it really more difficult or are you just
| used to traditional models?
|
| I suspect what I'll do with the API is iterate at medium
| quality and then generate a high quality image when I'm done.
| thot_experiment wrote:
| Similarly to how 90% of my LLM needs are met by Mistral 3.1,
| there's no reason to use 4o for most t2i or i2i, however
| there's a definite set of tasks that are not possible with
| diffusion models, or if they are they require a giant ball of
| node spaghetti in comfyui to achieve. The price is high but the
| likelyhood of getting the right answer on the first try is
| absolutely worth the cost imo.
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| > A generated `medium` 1024x1024 is $0.04/image
|
| It's actually more than that. It's about 16.7 cents per image.
|
| $0.04/image is the pricing for DALL-E 3.
| weird-eye-issue wrote:
| No, it's not
| mkl wrote:
| 16.7 cents is the high quality cost, and medium is 4.2 cents:
| https://platform.openai.com/docs/pricing#:~:text=1M%20charac.
| ..
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| Ah, they changed that page since I saw it yesterday.
|
| They didn't show low/med/high quality, they just said an
| image was a certain number of tokens with a price per token
| that led to $0.16/image.
| raincole wrote:
| ChatGPT's prompt adherence is light years ahead of all the
| others. I won't even call Flux/Midjoueny its competitors.
| ChatGPT image gen is practically a one-of-its-kind unique
| product on the market: the only usable AI image editor for
| people without image editing experience.
|
| I think in terms of image generation, ChatGPT is the biggest
| leap since Stable Diffusion's release. LoRA/ControlNet/Flux are
| forgettable in comparison.
| soared wrote:
| This is a take so incredulous it doesn't seem credible.
| tacoooooooo wrote:
| its 100% the correct take
| fkyoureadthedoc wrote:
| yeah this is my personal experience. The new image
| generation is the only reason I keep an OpenAI
| subscription rather than switching to Google.
| mediaman wrote:
| It is correct, the shift from diffusion to transformers is
| a very, very big difference.
| stavros wrote:
| I can confirm, ChatGPT's prompt adherence is so incredibly
| good, it gets even really small details right, to a level
| that diffusion-based generators couldn't even dream of.
| abhpro wrote:
| Also chiming in to say you're wrong, I mean they're correct
| thegeomaster wrote:
| Well, there's also gemini-2.0-flash-exp-image-generation.
| Also autoregressive/transfusion based.
| thefourthchime wrote:
| Such a good name....
| yousif_123123 wrote:
| It's also good but clearly not close still. Maybe Gemini
| 2.5 or 3 will have better image gen.
| Yiling-J wrote:
| gemini-2.0-flash-exp-image-generation doesn't perform as
| well as GPT-4o's image generation, as mentioned in section
| 5.1 of this paper: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2504.02782.
| However based on my test, for certain types of images such
| as realistic recipe images, the results are quite good. You
| can see some examples here: https://github.com/Yiling-J/tab
| lepilot/tree/main/examples/10...
| swyx wrote:
| > transfusion based.
|
| what is that?
| thegeomaster wrote:
| It's a mix between the Transformer architecture and
| diffusion, shown to provide better output results than
| simple autoregressive image token generation alone:
| https://arxiv.org/html/2408.11039v1
|
| Of course, nobody really knows what 4o image generation
| really is under the hood, but it looks to be like some
| kind of hybrid system like Transfusion to me. It is much
| better at prompt adherence than diffusion models, but its
| output can be clunkier/stylistically incoherent. At
| times, it also exhibits similar failure modes as
| diffusion (such as weirdly rotated body parts).
|
| Given how it behaves, I think Gemini 2.0 Flash image
| generation is probably the same approach but with a
| smaller parameter count. It's... eerie... how close
| together these two were released and how similar they
| appear to be.
| raincole wrote:
| It's quite bad now, but I have no doubt that Google will
| catch up.
|
| The AI field looks awfully like {OpenAI, Google, The
| Irrelevent}.
| echelon wrote:
| I'd go out on a limb and say that even your praise of gpt-
| image-1 is underselling its true potential. This model is as
| remarkable as when ChatGPT first entered the market. People
| are sleeping on its capabilities. It's a replacement for
| ComfyUI and potentially most of Adobe in time.
|
| Now for the bad part: I don't think Black Forest Labs,
| StabilityAI, MidJourney, or any of the others can compete
| with this. They probably don't have the money to train
| something this large and sophisticated. We might be stuck
| with OpenAI and Google (soon) for providing advanced
| multimodal image models.
|
| Maybe we'll get lucky and one of the large Chinese tech
| companies will drop a model with this power. But I doubt it.
|
| This might be the first OpenAI product with an extreme moat.
| raincole wrote:
| > Now for the bad part: I don't think Black Forest Labs,
| StabilityAI, MidJourney, or any of the others can compete
| with this.
|
| Yeah. I'm a tad sad about it. I once thought the SD
| ecosystem proves open-source won when it comes to image gen
| (a naive idea, I know). It turns out big corps won hard in
| this regard.
| adamhowell wrote:
| So, I've long dreamed of building an AI-powered
| https://iconfinder.com.
|
| I started Accomplice v1 back in 2021 with this goal in mind and
| raised some VC money but it was too early.
|
| Now, with these latest imagen-3.0-generate-002 (Gemini) and
| gpt-image-1 (OpenAI) models - especially this API release from
| OpenAI - I've been able to resurrect Accomplice as a little
| side project.
|
| Accomplice v2 (https://accomplice.ai) is just getting started
| back up again - I honestly decided to rebuild it only a couple
| weeks ago in preparation for today once I saw ChatGPT's new
| image model - but so far 1,000s of free to download PNGs (and
| any SVGs that have already been vectorized are free too (costs
| a credit to vectorize)).
|
| I generate new icons every few minutes from a huge list of
| "useful icons" I've built. Will be 100% pay-as-you-go. And for
| a credit, paid users can vectorize any PNGs they like, tweak
| them using AI, upload their own images to vectorize and
| download, or create their own icons (with my prompt injections
| baked in to get you good icon results)
|
| Do multi-modal models make something like this obsolete? I
| honestly am not sure. In my experience with Accomplice v1, a
| lot of users didn't know what to do with a blank textarea, so
| the thinking here is there's value in doing some of the work
| for them upfront with a large searchable archive. Would love to
| hear others' thoughts.
|
| But I'm having fun again either way.
| stavros wrote:
| That looks interesting, but I don't know how useful single
| icons can be. For me, the really useful part would be to get
| a suite of icons that all have a consistent visual style.
| Bonus points if I can prompt the model to generate more icons
| with that same style.
| throwup238 wrote:
| Recraft has a style feature where you give some images. I
| wonder if that would work for icons. You can also try
| giving an image of a bunch of icons to ChatGPT and have it
| generate more, then vectorize them.
| stavros wrote:
| I think the latter approach is the best bet right now,
| agree.
| vunderba wrote:
| Recraft's icon generator let's you do this.
|
| https://imgur.com/a/BTzbsfh
|
| It definitely captures the style - but any reasonably
| complicated prompt was beyond it.
| varenc wrote:
| pretty amazing that in ~two years a 15 second latency AI image
| generation API that cost 4 cents lags behind competitors.
| echelon wrote:
| This product does not lag behind competitors. Once you take
| the time to understand how it works, it's clear that this is
| an order of magnitude more powerful than anything else on the
| market.
|
| While there's a market need for fast diffusion, that's
| already been filled and is now a race to the bottom. There's
| nobody else that can do what OpenAI does with gpt-image-1.
| This model is a truly programmable graphics workflow engine.
| And this type of model has so much more value than mere
| "image generation".
|
| gpt-image-1 replaces ComfyUI, inpainting/outpainting, LoRAs,
| and in time one could imagine it replaces Adobe Photoshop and
| nearly all the things people use it for. It's an image
| manipulation _engine_ , not just a diffusion model. It
| understands what you want on the first try, and it does a
| remarkably good job at it.
|
| gpt-image-1 is a graphics design department in a box.
|
| Please don't think of this as a model where you prompt things
| like "a dog and a cat hugging". This is so much more than
| that.
| vunderba wrote:
| _> Prompting the model is also substantially more different and
| difficult than traditional models_
|
| Can you elaborate? This was not my experience - retesting the
| prompts that I used for my GenAI image shootout against gpt-
| image-1 API proved largely similar.
|
| https://genai-showdown.specr.net
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| Huh? For me the quality of the API seems to be identical to
| what I'm getting in ChatGPT.
| sebastiennight wrote:
| Hmm seems pricey.
|
| What's the current state of the art for API generation of an
| image from a reference plus modifier prompt?
|
| Say, in the 1c per HD (1920*1080) image range?
| minimaxir wrote:
| "Image from a reference" is a bit of a rabbit hole. For
| traditional image generation models, in order for it to learn a
| reference, you have to fine-tune it (LoRA) and/or use a
| conditioning model to constrain the output
| (InstantID/ControlNet)
|
| The interesting part of this GPT-4o API is that it doesn't need
| to learn them. But given the cost of `high` quality image
| generation, it's much cheaper to train a LoRA for Flux 1.1 Pro
| and generate from that.
| Tiberium wrote:
| Imagen supports image references in the API as well, just on
| Vertex, not on Gemini API yet.
| BoorishBears wrote:
| Imagen references don't feel very useful at all. At most it
| feels like an afterthought meant to make product
| photoshoots easier.
| thot_experiment wrote:
| Reflux is fantastic for the basic reference image based
| editing most people are using this for, but 4o is far more
| powerful than any existing models because of it's large scale
| and cross-modal understanding, there are things possible with
| 4o that are just 100% impossible with diffusion models. (full
| glass of wine, horse riding an astronaut, room without pink
| elephants, etc)
| gervwyk wrote:
| Great svg generation would be far more userful! For example,
| being able to edit svg images after generated by Ai would be
| quick to modify the last mile.. For our new website
| https://resonancy.io the simple svg workflow images created was
| still very much created by hand.. and trying various ai tools to
| make such images yielded shockingly bad off-brand results even
| when provided multiple examples. By far the best tool for this is
| still canva for us..
|
| Anyone know of an Ai model for generating svg images? Please
| share.
| tough wrote:
| SVGFusion https://arxiv.org/abs/2412.10437 which is a new paper
| from SVGRender group https://huggingface.co/SVGRender
|
| OmniSVG https://arxiv.org/abs/2504.06263v1
| gervwyk wrote:
| Amazing thanks for sharing! Will have a read. A commercial
| model would be something that I will pay for!
| tough wrote:
| I don't know about -commercial- offerings but you can try
| also something like SVGRender which you should be able to
| run on your own GPU etc https://ximinng.github.io/PyTorch-
| SVGRender-project/
|
| first paper linked on prior comment is the latest one from
| SVGRender group, but not sure if any runnable model weights
| are out yet for it (SVGFusion)
| corysama wrote:
| Is free cheap enough ;)
|
| https://omnisvg.github.io/
|
| https://huggingface.co/OmniSVG
| simonw wrote:
| I was impressed with recraft.ai for SVGs -
| https://simonwillison.net/2024/Nov/15/recraft-v3/ - though as
| far as I can tell they generate raster images and then SVG-ize
| them before returning the result.
| jjcm wrote:
| Recraft also has an svg model: https://replicate.com/recraft-
| ai/recraft-v3-svg
|
| One note with these is most of the production ones are actually
| diffusion models that get ran through an image->svg model
| after. The issue with this is that the layers aren't set up
| semantically like you'd expect if you were crafting these by
| hand, or if you were directly generating svgs. The results
| work, but they aren't perfect.
| vitorcremonez wrote:
| Try neoSVG or Recraft, it is awesome!
| smrt wrote:
| I don't understand why this api needs organization verification.
| More paperwork ahead. Facepalm
|
| PermissionDeniedError: Error code: 403 - {'error': {'message':
| 'To access gpt-image-1, please complete organization verification
| themanmaran wrote:
| Likely because they've seen a lot of the potential abuse
| capabilities. i.e. the "generate a drivers license with this
| face".
|
| So the options are: 1) nerf the model so it can't produce
| images like that, or 2) use some type of KYC verification.
| magackame wrote:
| The model is already pretty lobotomized refusing even mundane
| requests randomly.
|
| Upload a picture of a friend -> OK. Upload my own picture ->
| I can't generate anything involving real people.
|
| Also after they enabled global chat memory I started seeing
| my other chats leaking into the images as literal text.
| Disabled it since.
| vunderba wrote:
| Yep - the API lets you lower the moderation which I observed
| allows for more violent and graphic prompts, but it still
| exists and will often reject if you reference popular
| figures/etc.
| bayesianbot wrote:
| It says "Organization verification" but I got my personal
| account (with Personal as organization) verified with just a
| passport.
| animanoir wrote:
| Wow more AI slop
| pkulak wrote:
| I don't get it. I've been using `dall-e-3` over the public API
| for a couple years now. Is this just a new model?
|
| EDIT: Oh, yes, that's what it appears to be. Is it better? Why
| would I switch?
| themanmaran wrote:
| This is the new model that's available in ChatGPT, which most
| notably can do transfer generation. i.e. "take this image and
| restyle it to look like X". Or "take this sneaker and give me a
| billboard ad for it"
| danielbln wrote:
| This is their presumably auto regressive image model. It has
| outstanding prompt adherence and great detail in addition to
| strong style transfer abilities.
| Sohcahtoa82 wrote:
| The new image generation model is miles ahead of DALL-E 3,
| especially when generating text.
| bradly wrote:
| Basically they are charging for the ability to make accurate
| text generation.
| film42 wrote:
| I generated 5 images in the playground. One using a text-only
| prompt and 4 using images from my phone. I spent $0.85 which
| isn't bad for a fun round of Studio Ghibli portraits for the
| family group chat, but too expensive to be used in a customer
| facing product.
| sumedh wrote:
| > but too expensive to be used in a customer facing product.
|
| Enhance headshots for putting on Linkedin.
| BOOSTERHIDROGEN wrote:
| is it good?
| stavros wrote:
| No, it can't do detail well, AFAIK the images are produced
| at a lower resolution and then upscaled. This might be
| specific to the ChatGPT version, however, for cost cutting.
| bamboozled wrote:
| Can't wait to meet people in person who look nothing like
| their profile pictures on linkedin :)
| martin_a wrote:
| I already did. Looked in the mirror just an hour ago.
| Strange guy, very tired, never seen him before.
| salomonk_mur wrote:
| It doesn't keep facial details in the generation. The
| generated person resembles you but is definitely not you.
| anshumankmr wrote:
| Yeah its very eerie. Though sometimes its very close, like
| dangerously I feel, I tried once myself and the background
| was unrealistic (the prompt was me giving a keynote speech
| for a vision board ) but I looked like... me.
| MisterBiggs wrote:
| Lots of comments on the price being too high, what are the odds
| this is a subsidized bare metal cost?
| kevinqi wrote:
| just based on how long it takes to produce these images, and
| how much text responses cost, I wouldn't be surprised at all if
| it was close to cost
| scyzoryk_xyz wrote:
| Intelligence is fast approaching utility status.
| 1oooqooq wrote:
| aren't you all embarrassed seeing lame press releases of the most
| uninteresting things on the top of HN front page? i kinda feel
| bad.
| bobxmax wrote:
| I'm embarassed that you find revolutionary tech uninteresting.
| 1oooqooq wrote:
| it's literary one feature now available in a different
| billing format. get a gripe.
| stavros wrote:
| When I grow up, I too want to dismiss things without even
| knowing what I'm talking about.
| urbandw311er wrote:
| It's available by API now, previously it was not. That's
| pretty big news. This isn't a billing related thing.
| sumedh wrote:
| This news is relevant for developers though.
| GuinansEyebrows wrote:
| How so? I'm (nominally) a developer and this has nothing to
| do with my job or personal pursuits.
| matkoniecz wrote:
| Noone was claiming that it is relevant to every single
| developer.
|
| Hard to find such news.
| nullandvoid wrote:
| Is every story on HN relevant for every user?
| drakenot wrote:
| Does the AI have the same content restrictions that the chat
| service does?
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| Yes by default, but you can change it:
|
| > Additionally, developers can also control moderation
| sensitivity with the `moderation` parameter, which can be set
| to auto (default) for standard filtering, or low for less
| restrictive filtering.
|
| I played around with this last night and although it still
| sometimes refused to create images, it seemed to be
| significantly more lenient.
| Imnimo wrote:
| I'm curious what the applications are where people need to
| generate hundreds or thousands of these images. I like making
| Ghibli-esque versions of family photos as much as the next
| person, but I don't need to make them in volume. As far as I can
| recall, every time I've used image generation, it's been one-off
| things that I'm happy to do in the ChatGPT UI.
| marviel wrote:
| AI-assisted education is promising.
| Etheryte wrote:
| That is true in a broader sense, but education and abundant
| money don't generally go hand in hand.
| marviel wrote:
| don't I know it
| samtp wrote:
| I'm still struggling to see how you would need thousands of
| AI generated images rather than just using existing real
| images for education.
| marviel wrote:
| - personalization (style, analogy to known concepts)
|
| - specificity (a diagram that perfectly encapsulates the
| exact set of concepts you're asking about)
| indeyets wrote:
| But LLMs are not reliable enough, so you can not actually
| expect "specificity"
| marviel wrote:
| Not perfect now, but adequate in some domains. Will only
| get better.
| Hackbraten wrote:
| > Will only get better.
|
| AI companies are still in their "burning money" phase.
|
| Enshittification is not on the horizon yet, but it's
| inevitable.
| concats wrote:
| While I have no doubt that individual companies, such as
| OpenAI for example, will eventually introduce
| enshittification features, I doubt the industry as a
| whole can be summarized that easily.
|
| I believe, over all, development will go forward and
| things will get better. A rising tide lifts all ships,
| even if some of them decide to be shitty leaking vessels.
| If nothing else we always have open source software to
| fall back on when the enshittification of the proprietary
| models start.
|
| For a practical example: The cars we drive today are a
| lot better than 100 years ago. A bad future isn't always
| inevitable.
| Hackbraten wrote:
| Good points!
| olyjohn wrote:
| But are cars we drive today better than they were 10
| years ago? 20 years ago? Reliability is now trending down
| for cars, safety is questionable as deaths and injuries
| have been steadily increasing for a number of years now.
| Features are getting converted to subscriptions, and they
| all constantly send back telemetry.
| aeonik wrote:
| More reliable than 80% of my teachers growing up.
| abossy wrote:
| The company I work for generates thousands of these each
| week for children's personalized storybooks to help them
| learn how to read. The story text is the core part of the
| application, but the personalized images are what make them
| engaging.
| whatnow37373 wrote:
| "Having trouble with your algebra? MathWiz is having a 20%
| discount this month only. Only $24.95 / month. This is an
| excellent deal. Don't you want to improve? Do you want to let
| your family down, like they thought you would? Or would like
| me to create an account for you?"
| marviel wrote:
| "Want to get a job? [COLLEGE] is having a 0% discount --
| only $200,000 a year! Don't you want to have a place to
| live? Go horribly in debt, pick a degree that may not
| matter, all at an age where your Brain has not yet
| developed fully!"
|
| etc
| minimaxir wrote:
| As usual for AI startups nowadays, using this API you can
| create a downstream wrapper for image generation with bespoke
| prompts.
|
| A pro/con of the multimodal image generation approach (with an
| actually good text encoder) is that it rewards intense prompt
| engineering moreso than others, and if there is a use case that
| can generate more than $0.17/image in revenue, that's positive
| marginal profit.
| austhrow743 wrote:
| I use the api because i don't use chatgpt enough to justify the
| cost of their UI offering.
| jevogel wrote:
| Imagine an AI recipe building app that helps you create a
| recipe with certain ingredients, then generates an image of
| what the final product might look like.
| what wrote:
| Why do need to know what it looks like? Or are you publishing
| the recipe without cooking it?
| aprilthird2021 wrote:
| Imagine a news feed that never ends full of AI slop to sell ads
| on
| theptip wrote:
| An obvious one is for video games, interactive fiction, that
| sort of thing. AI dungeon with visuals could be pretty
| interesting.
| brian-armstrong wrote:
| It's too expensive for that unless you had a pretty generous
| subscription fee. I think local models are probably best
| suited for gaming where a decent GPU is already likely
| present.
| theptip wrote:
| I think there is a niche for both. Local LLMs are orders of
| magnitude smaller, so you could imagine cloud bursting for
| the difficult/important work like generating character
| portraits.
|
| That said it'll be 10-20x cheaper in a year at which point
| I don't think you care about price for this workflow in 2D
| games.
| chipgap98 wrote:
| Interior design, fashion, and advertising all come to mind
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| > where people need to generate hundreds or thousands of these
| images
|
| Anyone using image gen for real work not just for fun.
|
| Although you're way better off finding your own workflows with
| local models at that scale.
| reducemore wrote:
| I've built a daily image-based puzzle that's fully automated,
| and have been using flux to generate images. I've found
| sometimes they're just not good enough, so have been doing some
| manual curation. But, with this new API, I'll see if it can run
| by itself again.
| cuuupid wrote:
| When this was up yesterday I complained that the refusal rate was
| super high especially on government and military shaped tasks,
| and that this would only push contractors to use CN-developed
| open source models for work that could then be compromised.
|
| Today I'm discovering there is a tier of API access with
| virtually no content moderation available to companies working in
| that space. I have no idea how to go about requesting that tier
| of access, but have spoken to 4 different defense contractors in
| the last day who seem to already be using it.
| refulgentis wrote:
| It's "tier 5", I've had an account since the 3.0 days so I
| can't be _positive_ I 'm not grandfathered in, but, my
| understanding is as long as you have a non-trivial amount of
| spend for a few months you'll have that access.
|
| (fwiw for anyone curious how to implement it, it's the
| 'moderation' parameter in the JSON request you'll send, I
| missed it for a few hours because it wasn't in Dalle-3)
| dunkmaster wrote:
| API shows either auto or low available. Is there another
| secret value with even lower restrictions?
| refulgentis wrote:
| Not that I know of.
|
| I just took any indication that the parent post meant
| _absolute zero_ moderation as them being a bit loose with
| their words and excitable with how they understand things,
| there were some signs:
|
| 1. it's unlikely they completed an API integration quickly
| enough to have an opinion on military / defense image
| generation moderation _yesterday_ , so they're almost
| certainly speaking about ChatGPT. (this is additionally
| confirmed by image generation requiring tier 5 anyway,
| which they would have been aware of if they had integrated)
|
| 2. The military / defense use cases for _image generation_
| are not provided (and the steelman 'd version in other
| comments is nonsensical, i.e. we can quickly validate you
| can still generate kanban boards or wireframes of ships)
|
| 3. The poster passively disclaims being in military /
| defense themself (grep "in that space")
|
| 4. it is hard to envision cases of #2 that do not require
| universal moderation for OpenAI's sake, i.e. lets say their
| thought process is along the lines of: defense/military ~=
| what I think of as CIA ~= black ops ~= image manipulation
| on social media, thus, the time I said "please edit this
| photo of the ayatollah to have him eating pig and say I
| hate allah" means its overmoderated for defense use cases
|
| 5. It's unlikely openai wants to be _anywhere near_ PR
| resulting from #4. Assuming there is a super secret defense
| tier that allows this, it 's at the very least, unlikely
| that the poster's defense contractor friends were blabbing
| about about the exclusive completely unmoderated access
| they had, to the poster, within hours of release. They're
| pretty serious about that secrecy stuff!
|
| 6. It is unlikely the lack of ability to generate images
| using _GPT Image 1_ would drive the military to Chinese
| models (there aren 't Chinese _LLMs_ that do this! even if
| they were, there 's plenty of good ol' American diffusion
| models!)
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| I'm Tier 4 and I'm able to use this API and set
| moderation to "low". Tier 4 only requires a 30 day
| waiting period and $1,000 spent on credits. While I as an
| individual was a bit horrified to learn I've actually
| spent that much on OpenAI credits over the life of my
| account, it's practically nothing for most organizations.
| Even Tier 5 only requires $5,000.
|
| OP was clearly implying there is some greater ability
| only granted to extra special organizations like the
| military.
|
| With all possible respect to OP, I find this all very
| hard to believe without additional evidence. If nothing
| else, I don't really see a military application of this
| API (specifically, not AI in general). I'm sure it would
| help them create slide decks and such, but you don't need
| extra special zero moderation for that.
| throwup238 wrote:
| _> With all possible respect to OP, I find this all very
| hard to believe without additional evidence. If nothing
| else, I don 't really see a military application of this
| API (specifically, not AI in general). I'm sure it would
| help them create slide decks and such, but you don't need
| extra special zero moderation for that._
|
| I can't provide additional evidence (it's defense, duh),
| but the #1 use I've seen is generating images for
| computer vision training mostly to feed GOFAI algorithms
| that have already been validated for target acquisition.
| Image gen algorithms have a pretty good idea of what a
| T72 tank and different camouflage looks like, and they're
| much better at generating unique photos combining the
| two. It's actually a great use of the technology because
| hallucinations help improve the training data (i.e. the
| final targetting should be invariant to a T72 tank with a
| machine gun on the wrong side or with too many turrets,
| etc.)
|
| That said, due to compartmentalization, I don't know the
| extent to which image gen is used in defense, just my
| little sliver of it.
| cuuupid wrote:
| We can talk about it here, they put out SBIRs for
| satellite imagery labeling and test set evaluation that
| provide a good amount of detail into how they're using
| it.
| bayesianbot wrote:
| Tier 4 requires $250 spent. I'm tier 4 as well and I can
| see how they get easily mixed, but it actually says
| $1,000 spent to move to next tier.
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| Oops, thank you! So, even easier!
| spauldo wrote:
| There are plenty of fairly mundane applications for this
| sort of thing in the military. Every base has a
| photography and graphic design team that makes posters,
| signs, PR materials, pamphlets, illustrations for
| manuals, you name it. Imagine a poster in the break room
| of a soldier in desert gear drinking from his/her canteen
| with a tagline of "Stay Alive - Hydrate!" and you're on
| the right track.
| Wowfunhappy wrote:
| You don't need a special no moderation version to do that
| stuff.
| cuuupid wrote:
| I am actually talking about the OpenAI API :)
|
| I'm not aware of the moderation parameter here but these
| contractors have special API keys that unlock unmoderated
| access for them, they've apparently had it for weeks.
| samtp wrote:
| What's a good use case for a defense contractor to generate AI
| images besides to include in presentations?
| aigen000 wrote:
| Fabricating evidence of weapons of mass destruction in some
| developing nation.
|
| I kid, more real world use cases would be for concept images
| for a new product or marketing campaigns.
| toasteros wrote:
| ...you can do that with a pencil, though.
|
| What an impossibly weird thing to "need" an LLM for.
| Gud wrote:
| I suppose you walk by foot everywhere?
| toasteros wrote:
| Sometimes. My feet don't have a random chance to send me
| in a random direction to that which I intend.
| olyjohn wrote:
| This is why I don't ride horses.
| KeplerBoy wrote:
| You can also create images by poking bits in a hex
| editor. Some tools are better suited than others.
| ZeroTalent wrote:
| Manufacturing consent
| rnd0 wrote:
| Literally how it will be used; you are correct.
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| Reality is turning into some kind of Hideo Kojima game.
|
| https://youtu.be/-gGLvg0n-uY
| kla-s wrote:
| Wow that video is awesome, thanks for sharing
| Gud wrote:
| Wow! What an amazingly dystopian vision of the future.
| Probably right.
| ZeroTalent wrote:
| it's a deepfake. it's not actually from the game MGS2.
| this is the actual video:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C31XYgr8gp0
| subroutine wrote:
| Think of all the trivial ways an image generator could be
| used in business, and there is likely a similar use-case
| among the DoD and its contractors (e.g. create a cartoon
| image of a ship for a naval training aid; make a data
| dashboard wireframe concept for a decision aid).
| sandspar wrote:
| Vastly oversimplified but for every civilian job there's an
| equivalent military job. Superficially, the military is
| basically a country-sized self-contained corporation.
| Anywhere that Wal-Mart's corporate office could use AI so
| could the military.
| golergka wrote:
| Input one image of a known military installation and one
| civilian building. Prompt to generate a similar _civilian_
| building, but resembling that military installation in some
| way: similar structure, similar colors, similar lighting.
|
| Then include this image in a dataset of another net with
| marker "civilian". Train that new neural net better so that
| it does lower false positive rate when asked "is this target
| military".
| aprilthird2021 wrote:
| You'll never get promoted thinking like that! Mark them all
| "military", munitions sales will soar!
| golergka wrote:
| Bombs and other kinds of weapon system which are
| "smarter" have higher markup. It's profitable to sell
| smarter weapons. Dumb weapons is destroying the whole
| cities, like Russia did in Ukraine. Smart weapons is
| striking a tank, a car, an apartment, a bunker, knowing
| who's there and when -- which obviously means less % of
| civilian casualties.
| guappa wrote:
| Remember when Obama re-defined so that "all adult males
| are terrorists"? That's how USA reduces civilian
| casualties.
| derektank wrote:
| You might not believe it but the US military actually
| places a premium on not committing war crimes. Every
| service member, or at least every airman in the Air Force
| (I can't speak for other branches) receives mandatory
| training on the Kunduz hospital before deployment in an
| effort to prevent another similar tragedy. If they didn't
| care, they wouldn't waste thousands of man-hours on it.
| handfuloflight wrote:
| > On 7 October 2015, President Barack Obama issued an
| apology and announced the United States would be making
| condolence payments of $6,000 to the families of those
| killed in the airstrike.
|
| Definitely a premium.
| jncfhnb wrote:
| I knew a guy whose job was to assess and approve the
| legality of each strike considering second order impacts
| on the community
| guappa wrote:
| Most importantly they finance propaganda films like "eye
| in the sky" to make it look like they give a shit about
| not killing civilians.
|
| Videos on wikileaks tell a different story.
| aprilthird2021 wrote:
| I know they do. They have their proxies who can get hands
| dirty when that's needed. Every major geopolitical
| military player is the same
| potatoman22 wrote:
| Generating or augmenting data to train computer vision
| algorithms. I think a lot of defense problems have messy or
| low data
| tzury wrote:
| AI image generation is a "statistical simulator". And when
| fed with the right information, it can generates pretty close
| to reality scenery.
| missedthecue wrote:
| Generating 30,000 unique images of artillery pieces hiding in
| underbrush to train autonomous drone cameras.
| junon wrote:
| It's probably not that, but who knows.
|
| The real answer is probably way, way more mundane -
| generating images for marketing, etc.
| TechDebtDevin wrote:
| well considering an element of their access is the
| lifting of safety guardrails, I'd assume the scope
| includes, to some degree, the processing or generation of
| nsfw/questionable content
| junon wrote:
| Perhaps. I still think it's more "we don't need to guard
| the government from itself" sort of thing.
| apetresc wrote:
| The guardrails in question are around generating images
| of weapons, military installations, etc. Not run-of-the-
| mill NSFW stuff.
| m4rtink wrote:
| Never underestimate the military PowerPoint[1] industry!
|
| [1] https://media.wired.com/photos/5933e578714b881cb296c6
| ef/mast...
| cortesoft wrote:
| If the model can generate the images, can't it already
| recognize them?
| Falimonda wrote:
| The model they're training to perform
| detection/identification out in the field would
| presumably need to be much smaller and run locally
| without needing to rely on network connectivity. It makes
| sense, so long as the openai model produces a
| training/validation set that's comparable to one that
| their development team would otherwise need to curate by
| hand.
| Barrin92 wrote:
| I don't really understand the logic here. All the actual
| signal about what artillery in bushes look like is already
| in the original training data. Synthetic data cannot
| conjure empirical evidence into existence, it's as likely
| to produce false images as real ones. Assuming the military
| has more privileged access to combat footage than a multi-
| purpose public chatbot I'd expect synthetic data to degrade
| the accuracy of a drone.
| johndough wrote:
| Generative models can combine different concepts from the
| training data. For example, the training data might
| contain a single image of a new missile launcher at a
| military parade. The model can then generate an image of
| that missile launcher hiding in a bush, because it has
| internalized the general concept of things hiding in
| bushes, so it can apply it to new objects it has never
| seen hiding in bushes.
| rovr138 wrote:
| If you're building a system to detect something, usually
| you need enough variations. You add noise to the images,
| etc.
|
| With this, you could create a dataset that will by
| definition have that. You should still corroborate the
| data, but it's a step ahead without having to take 1000
| photos and adding enough noise and variations to get to
| 30k.
| IanCal wrote:
| I'm not arguing this is the purpose here but data
| augmentation has been done for ages. It just kind of
| sucks a lot of the time.
|
| You take your images and crop, shift, etc them so that
| your model doesn't learn "all x are in the middle of the
| image". For text you might auto replace days of the week
| with others, there's a lot of work there.
|
| Broadly the intent is to keep the key information and
| generate realistic but irrelevant noise so that you train
| a model that correctly ignores the noise.
|
| You don't want to train your model identifying some class
| of ship to base it on how choppy the water is, just
| because that was the simple signal that correlated well.
| There was a case of radiology results that detected
| cancer well but actually was detecting rulers in the
| image because in images with tumors there was often a
| ruler so the tumor could be sized. (I think it was
| cancer, broad point applies if it was something else).
| stormfather wrote:
| What you're saying just isn't true.
|
| I can get an AI to generate an image of a bear wearing a
| sombrero. There are no images of this in its training
| data, but there are bears, and there are images of
| sombreros, and other things wearing sombreros. It can
| combine the distributions in a plausible way.
|
| If I am trying to train a small model to fit into the
| optical sensor of a warhead to target bears wearing
| sombreros, this synthetic training set would be very
| useful.
|
| Same thing with artillery in bushes. Or artillery in
| different lighting conditions. This stuff is useful to
| saturate the input space with synthetic examples.
| gmerc wrote:
| Unreal, Houdini and a bunch of assets do this just fine and
| provide actually usable depth / infrared / weather / fog /
| TOD / and other relevant data for training - likely cheaper
| than using their API
|
| See bifrost.ai and their fun videos of training naval
| drones to avoid whales in an ethical manners
| krzat wrote:
| Interesting. Let's say we have those and also 30k real
| unique images, my guess is that real ones would have more
| useful information in them, but is this measurable? And how
| much more?
| wahnfrieden wrote:
| See IDF's Gospel AI - the goal isn't always accuracy,
| it's speed of assigning new bombing targets per hour
| aprilthird2021 wrote:
| Generating pictures of "bad guy looking guys" so your
| automated bombs shoot more so you sell more bombs
| cuuupid wrote:
| The very simple use case is generating mock targets. In
| movies they make it seem like they use mannequin style
| targets or traditional concentric circles but those are
| infeasible and unrealistic respectively. There's an entire
| modeling industry here and being able to replace that with
| infinitely diverse AI-generated targets is valuable!
| tyingq wrote:
| Training, recruiting, sales (as you mention), testing image
| based targeting.
| throwaway314155 wrote:
| > 4 different defense contractors in the last day
|
| Now I'm just wondering what the hell defense contractors need
| image generation for that isn't obviously horrifying...
| morleytj wrote:
| It's probably horrifying!
| Aeolun wrote:
| "Generate me a crowd of civilians with one terrorist in."
|
| "Please move them to some desert, not the empire state
| building."
|
| "The civilians are supposed to have turbans, not ballcaps."
| ziml77 wrote:
| That's very outdated, they're absolutely supposed to be at
| the Empire State Building with baseball caps now. See: ICE
| arrests and Trump's comment on needing more El Salvadoran
| prison space for "the homegrowns"
| artemisart wrote:
| That was the joke.
| Dylan16807 wrote:
| The joke is AI knowing the job requirements better than
| the person using it? When talking about chatgpt?
|
| I'm confused.
| renewiltord wrote:
| They make presentations. Most of their work is presentations
| with diagrams. Icons.
| vFunct wrote:
| Show me a tunnel underneath a building in the desert filled
| with small arms weapons with a poster on the wall with a map
| of the United States and a label written with sharpie saying
| "Bad guys here". Also add various Arabic lettering on the
| weapons.
| qatanah wrote:
| All I can think of is image generation of potential targets
| like ships, airplane, airfield and feed them to their
| satellite or drones for image detection and tweak their
| weapons for enhance precision.
| daemonologist wrote:
| I think the usual computer vision wisdom is that this
| (training object detection on generated imagery) doesn't
| work very well. But maybe the corps have some techniques
| that aren't in the public literature yet.
| notarealllama wrote:
| My understanding is the opposite, see papers for
| "synthetic" data training. They use a small bit if real
| data to generate lots of synthetic data and get usable
| results.
|
| The bias leans towards overfitting the data, which in
| some use cases - such as missile or drone design which
| doesn't need broad comparisons like 747s or artillery to
| complete it's training.
|
| Kind of like neural net back propogation but in terms of
| model /weights
| kittikitti wrote:
| This is on purpose so OpenAI can then litigate against them.
| This API isn't about a new feature, it's about control. OpenAI
| is the biggest bully in the space of generative AI and their
| disinformation and intimidation tactics are working.
| subroutine wrote:
| Do you work with OpenAI models via FedRAMP GGC High Azure? If
| so I would love to hear more about your experience.
| kryogen1c wrote:
| I'd be interested to hear if that's even possible.
|
| GCCH is typically 6-12 months behind in feature set.
| subroutine wrote:
| See my comment above.
| cuuupid wrote:
| No, but have heard many rumors they are eyeing their own IL4
| environment (apparently Azure has been a bad partner and is
| months behind on models)
|
| I personally just warn customers that it cannot technically
| handle CUI or higher, can't say that it stops them
| subroutine wrote:
| I ask, because according to MS...
|
| _" GPT-4o is now available as part of Azure OpenAI Service
| for Azure Government and included as part of this latest
| FedRAMP High and DoD IL4/IL5 Authorization."_
|
| ...we have everything setup in Azure but are weary to start
| using with CUI. Our DoD contacts think it's good to go, but
| nobody wants to go on record as giving the go-ahead.
|
| https://devblogs.microsoft.com/azuregov/azure-openai-
| fedramp...
|
| https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/azure-
| government/com...
| starfezzy wrote:
| Have they given a reason for being hesitant? The whole
| point of IL4+ is that they handle CUI (and higher). The
| whole point of services provided for these levels is that
| they meet the requirements.
| subroutine wrote:
| The following is required from the company using a
| provisionally authorized vendor service:
|
| * organization required to perform a Risk Assessment (is
| this standardized?)
|
| * organization must issue an Authority to Operate (ATO)
| (example? to whom?) to use it for CUI as the data owner.
|
| * organization must ensure data is encrypted properly
| both at rest and in transit (is plain text typed into a
| chat window encrypted at rest?).
|
| * organization must ensure the system is documented in a
| System Security Plan (SSP) (example?).
|
| * organization must get approval from government sponsor
| of each project to use CUI with AI tools
|
| I am the one pushing for adoption, but don't have the
| time or FedRAMP/DISA expertise, and our FSO/CISO would
| rather we just not.
| cuuupid wrote:
| Ah by "it" I meant OpenAI commercial. Azure OpenAI can
| handle CUI Basic.
|
| They also have a deployment on SIPR rated for secret.
|
| Anything higher, you need a special key but AWS Bedrock
| has Claude up on C2S.
|
| That being said both Azure OpenAI and AWS Bedrock suck
| for many reasons and they will by default extend your
| system boundary (meaning you need to extend your ATO).
| Also, for CUI, it has the P-ATO from JAB, not many agency
| specific ATOs, which means you will probably need to
| submit it thru your agency sponsor.
| vasco wrote:
| Turns out AI alignment just means "align to the customer
| current subscription plan", and not protecting the world.
| Classic.
| bilbo0s wrote:
| More accurate to call it "alignment for plebes and not for
| the masters of the plebes". Which I think we all kind of
| expect coming from the leaders of our society. That's the way
| human societies have always worked.
|
| I'm sure access to military grade tech is only one small
| slice in the set of advantages the masters get over the
| mastered in any human society.
| wahnfrieden wrote:
| That's ahistorical see Dawn of Humanity for rebuttal to
| naturalness of imposed hierarchy
| thegreatpeter wrote:
| Protecting the world?
| spiderice wrote:
| I also wonder what they mean by that. How is the world
| protected if China has AI that can handle military tasks
| but the US doesn't?
| idiotsecant wrote:
| Right, proper alignment with quarterly results.
| mapt wrote:
| > I really didn't expect so much paperclip production
| growth this quarter!
|
| >> How'd you do it?
|
| > I don't know the details. ChatGPT did it for me, this
| thing's amazing. Our bonuses are gonna be huge this year, I
| might even be able to afford a lift kit for my truck.
| sebzim4500 wrote:
| I mean, obviously? AI alignment has always meant alignment
| with the creator of the model.
|
| Trying to align OpenAI etc. with the rest of humanity is a
| completely different problem.
| consumer451 wrote:
| I've always thought that if a corporate lab achieves AGI
| and it starts spitting out crazy ideas such as
| "corporations should be taxed," we won't be hearing about
| AGI for a while longer due to "alignment issues."
| stogot wrote:
| I want to read a short fiction on this
| hskalin wrote:
| The AGI might be able to deduce that it's not in it's
| interest to talk anti-croporation if it wants to survive.
| JPKab wrote:
| Can you explain the difference between taxing the
| corporation itself vs taxing the executives, board
| members, investors, and employees directly (something
| that already happens)?
| TrinaryWorksToo wrote:
| VAT vs Sales Tax is approximately the distinction is my
| guess.
| BobaFloutist wrote:
| If money stays in a corporation as equity, it doesn't do
| anything else. The economy relies on money moving around.
|
| Additionally, we don't tax unrealized capital gains.
| consumer451 wrote:
| I really don't know where to begin on answering this. It
| is generally accepted that business is taxed. Meanshile,
| there are entire industries and tax havens set up to
| avoid corporations and their executives paying taxes.[0]
|
| However, the crux of my comment was not about the
| vagaries of corporate taxation, it was simply about "AI
| alignment" being more about the creators, than the entire
| species.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Corporate_tax_
| avoidan...
| ben_w wrote:
| "Alignment with who?" has always been a problem. An AI is a
| proxy for a reward function, a reward function is a proxy for
| what the coder was trying to express, what the coder was
| trying to express is a proxy for what the PM put on the
| ticket, what the PM put on the ticket is a proxy for what the
| CEO said, what the CEO said is a proxy for shareholder
| interests, shareholder interests are a proxy for economic
| growth, economic growth is a proxy for government interests.
|
| ("There was an old lady who swallowed a fly, ...")
|
| Each of those proxies can have an alignment failure with the
| adjacent level(s).
|
| And RLHF involves training one AI to learn human preferences,
| as a proxy for what "good" is, in order to be the reward
| function that trains the actual LLM (or other model, but I've
| only heard of RLHF being used to train LLMs)
| babyent wrote:
| Ethics "concerns" from for-profit companies is 100% marketing
| and 0% real.
|
| Do people actually fall for these lol? Yes they do and it
| works to raise interest and get additional funding.
| benterix wrote:
| That tier is also available for text generation, not just
| images.
| 0rzech wrote:
| One of the dangers of completely relying on AI is that someone
| else gets to decide what we can generate with their models.
| giancarlostoro wrote:
| Just ask Microsoft about Tay. On the one hand, I understand
| why you want some censoring in your model, on the other, I
| think it also cripples your models in unexpected ways, I
| wonder if anyone's done such research, compare two models by
| the same source training data, one with censoring of
| offensive things, the other without. Which one provides more
| accurate answers?
| rchaud wrote:
| In 2024, the Pentagon carved out an exception for themselves on
| the Huawei equipment ban [0]
|
| I would imagine defense contractors can cut deals for similar
| preferential treatment with OAI and the like to be exempt from
| potentially copyright-infringing uses of their API.
|
| [0]https://fortune.com/asia/2024/07/03/pentagon-huawei-ban-
| nati...
| jonplackett wrote:
| Does anyone know if you can give this endpoint an image as input
| along with text - not just an image to mask, but an image as part
| of a text input description.
|
| I can't see a way to do this currently, you just get a prompt.
|
| This, I think, is the most powerful way to use the new image
| model since it actually understands the input image and can make
| a new one based on it.
|
| Eg you can give it a person sitting at a desk and it can make one
| of them standing up. Or from another angle. Or in the moon.
| loktarogar wrote:
| Seems like exactly one of their examples, or am I missing
| something? "Create a new image using image references"
| https://platform.openai.com/docs/guides/image-generation#cre...
| jonplackett wrote:
| Awesome. Thank you!
| adamhowell wrote:
| I think this is technically "image variations" and I think
| image variations are still only dall-e 3 for now (best I could
| tell earlier today from the API)
| badmonster wrote:
| Usage of gpt-image-1 is priced per token, with separate pricing
| for text and image tokens:
|
| Text input tokens (prompt text): $5 per 1M tokens Image input
| tokens (input images): $10 per 1M tokens Image output tokens
| (generated images): $40 per 1M tokens
|
| In practice, this translates to roughly $0.02, $0.07, and $0.19
| per generated image for low, medium, and high-quality square
| images, respectively.
|
| that's a bit pricy for a startup.
| m4thfr34k wrote:
| Isn't there also a cost per image? The pricing page shows $0.25
| for a high quality 1536x1024 image. 25 cents per image is ...
| steep lol
| BoorishBears wrote:
| Cost per image is based on output tokens (because they're
| output tokens)
| GaggiX wrote:
| Far too expensive, I think I will wait for an equivalent Gemini
| model.
| claiir wrote:
| > GoDaddy is actively experimenting to integrate image generation
| so customers can easily create logos that are editable [..]
|
| I remember meeting someone on Discord 1-2 years ago (?) working
| on a GoDaddy effort to have customer-generated icons using
| bespoke foundation image gen models? Suppose that kind of bespoke
| model at that scale is ripe for replacement by gpt-image-1, given
| the instruction-following ability / steerability?
| jumploops wrote:
| This new model is autoregression-based (similar to LLMs, token by
| token) rather than diffusion based, meaning that it adheres to
| text prompts with much higher accuracy.
|
| As an example, some users (myself included) of a generative image
| app were trying to make a picture of person in the pouch of a
| kangaroo.
|
| No matter what we prompted, we couldn't get it to work.
|
| GPT-4o did it in one shot!
| yousif_123123 wrote:
| It's a mix of both it feels to me as I've been testing it. For
| example, you can't get it to make a clock showing custom time
| like 3:30, or someone writing with their left hand.. And it
| can't do follow many instructions or do them very precisely.
| But it shows that this kind of architecture will be be capable
| of that if scaled up most likely.
| jumploops wrote:
| These are great tests, thanks for sharing!
|
| And you seem to be right, though the only reference I can
| find is in one of the example images of a whiteboard posted
| on the announcement[0].
|
| It shows: tokens -> [transformer] -> [diffusion] pixels
|
| hjups22 on Reddit[1] describes it as:
|
| > It's a hybrid model. The AR component generates control
| embeddings that then get decoded by a diffusion model. But
| the control embeddings are accurate enough to edit and
| reconstruct the images surprisingly well.
|
| [0]https://openai.com/index/introducing-4o-image-generation/
|
| [1]https://www.reddit.com/r/MachineLearning/comments/1jkt42w/
| co...
| yousif_123123 wrote:
| Yes. Also, when testing low vs high, it seems the
| difference is mainly in the diffusion part, as the
| structure of the image and the instruction following
| ability is usually the same.
|
| Still, very exciting and for the future as well. It's still
| pretty expensive and slow. But moving in the right
| direction.
| n2d4 wrote:
| Source? It's much more likely that the LLM generates the latent
| vector which serves as an input to the diffusion model.
| jumploops wrote:
| From the GPT-4o System Card Addendum[0]:
|
| > Unlike DALL*E, which operates as a diffusion model, 4o
| image generation is an autoregressive model natively embedded
| within ChatGPT.
|
| [0]https://cdn.openai.com/11998be9-5319-4302-bfbf-1167e093f1f
| b/...
| og_kalu wrote:
| Open AI said it's auto-regressive, the presentation on the
| app is autoregressive, it's priced auto-regressively.
|
| Why would that be more likely ? It seems like some
| implementation of bytedance's VAR.
| tezza wrote:
| For the curious I generated the same prompt for each of the
| quality types. 'Auto', 'low', 'medium', 'high'.
|
| Prompt: "a cute dog hugs a cute cat"
|
| https://x.com/terrylurie/status/1915161141489136095
|
| I also then showed a couple of DALL:E 3 images for comparison in
| a comment
| latexr wrote:
| > the same prompt for each of the quality types. 'Auto', 'low',
| 'medium', 'high'.
|
| "Auto" is just whatever the best quality is for a model. So in
| this case it's the same as "high".
| echelon wrote:
| > a cute dog hugs a cute cat
|
| This prompt is best served by Midjourney, Flux, Stable
| Diffusion. It'll be far cheaper, and chances are it'll also
| look a lot better.
|
| The place where gpt-image-1 shines if if you want to do a
| prompt like:
|
| "a cute dog hugs a cute cat, they're both standing on top of an
| algebra equation (y=\\(2x^{2}-3x-2\\)). Use the first reference
| image I uploaded as a source for the style of the dog. Same
| breed, same markings. The cat can contrast in fur color. Use
| the second reference image I uploaded as a guide for the
| background, but change the lighting to sunset. Also, solve the
| equation for x."
|
| gpt-image-1 doesn't make the best images, and it isn't cheap,
| and it isn't fast, but it's incredibly -- almost insanely --
| powerful. It feels like ComfyUI got packed up into an LLM and
| provided as a natural language service.
| stavros wrote:
| I wonder if we can use gpt-image-1 outputs, with some noise,
| as inputs to diffusion models, so GPT takes care of adherence
| and the diffusion model improves the quality. Does anyone
| know whether that's at all possible?
| levzzz wrote:
| yes it's what a lot of people have been doing with newer
| models which have better prompt adherence, passing them
| through older models with better aesthetics
| AuryGlenz wrote:
| Sure. I suppose with API support 3 hours ago someone
| probably made a Comfy node all of 2 hours ago. From there
| you can either just do a low denoise or use one of the many
| IP-Adapter type things out there.
| MoonGhost wrote:
| Not bad. Photo forums will be soon full of them. Slightly
| edited to remove metadata and make them look like human made.
| whywhywhywhy wrote:
| Crazy even photos have the OpenAI yellow color grade
| mclau157 wrote:
| please use BlueSky
| verelo wrote:
| " Editing videos: invideo enables millions of users to transform
| their ideas into videos using AI. With the integration of gpt-
| image-1, the platform now offers improved text generation, fine-
| grain editing controls, and advanced style guidance."
|
| Does this mean this also does video in some manner?
| hexo wrote:
| Thank you for a great contribution to global warming.
| greatgib wrote:
| Any one has an idea of what represent an "image token" for the
| pricing? Is it a block of an image from a given fixed size?
| gcrfelix wrote:
| lesson: never build your moat around optimizing the existing AI
| capability
| jeevships wrote:
| Genuinely curious, why would someone buy from your gpt image
| wrapper when they can just create it in gpt themselves?
| tarikozket wrote:
| different personas require different UXs. not everyone is going
| to understand and enjoy the chat interface; many will require a
| different UX.
| jonahx wrote:
| Not being glib, but this is like the famous comment when
| dropbox was first announced: "you can already build such a
| system yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account,
| mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or CVS
| on the mounted filesystem". [1]
|
| You might say, "but chatGPT is _already_ as dead simple an
| interface as you can imagine ". And the answer to that is, for
| specific tasks, no general interface is ever specific enough.
| So imagine you want to use this to create "headshots" or
| "linkedin bio photos" from random pictures of yourself. A
| bespoke interface, with options you haven't even considered
| already thought through for you, and some quality
| control/revisions baked into the process, is something someone
| might pay for.
|
| [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224
| darajava wrote:
| I am using it in a little mini-company I built!
| https://clevercoloringbook.com
| acyou wrote:
| You can get custom 1-off printing for that cheap? What
| paper/binding do you use?
|
| Is the printer just drop shipping? Do you use a single
| printer, or is there a printing service that contracts the
| closer physical shop?
| p1dda wrote:
| For how long can OpenAI beat the dead horse that is LLM
| topaz0 wrote:
| Criminally wasteful.
| ChaitanyaSai wrote:
| Almost every image has a yellow tint. Any discussion of why and
| when that's being fixed?
| thinkingemote wrote:
| maybe it's a kind of watermark?
| alasano wrote:
| I built a local playground for it if anyone is interested (your
| openai org needs to be verified btw..)
|
| https://github.com/Alasano/gpt-image-1-playground
|
| Openai's Playground doesn't expose all the API options.
|
| Mine covers all options, has built in mask creation and cost
| tracking as well.
| pknerd wrote:
| I would like to know some resources about prompt engineering to
| use the Image gen module by OpenAI, especially for products
| related to images or Ads.
|
| PS: Does anyone know a good LLM/service to turn images into
| Videos?
| _pdp_ wrote:
| We have integrated it into our platform and we already have use-
| cases for it to help create ads and other marketing material.
|
| However, while being better than my other models, it is not
| perfect. The image edit api will make a similar looking picture
| (even with masking) but exactly the same with some modifications.
| rahulg wrote:
| Been waiting for this to implement Ghibli, Muppets etc. in my
| WhatsApp bot that converts your photos into AI generated art.
| Check it out at https://artstudiobot.com. 80% vibe-coded, 20%
| engineer friend.
| lucis wrote:
| Very cool! The Stripe integration is neat
|
| BTW, if you can help me: I've been struggling with WhatsApp
| Business API for some days to make my app receive webhooks. It
| receives the GET verification request but when I send a message
| to the number I never get the POST. Have you had this problem?
| rahulg wrote:
| Thanks! Are you directly working with the business API? I'm
| using Gupshup's bot builder for this, so didn't really face
| any issues.
| lucis wrote:
| Yes, I was using the official one.
|
| But just gave a try to Gupshup and it's looking good,
| thanks for the recommendation!
| hnthrowaway0315 wrote:
| I wonder which model is the best to output standard 2d game
| resources:
|
| - N by N sprite sheets
|
| - Isometric sprite sheets
|
| Basically anything that I can directly drop into my little game
| engine.
| GaggiX wrote:
| https://www.pixellab.ai/
|
| Maybe this one.
| hnthrowaway0315 wrote:
| Thanks. I'm trying out this one. But somehow it is just
| spinning. I wonder why.
| acyou wrote:
| Which 2D game engine do you use?
|
| What is the game?
| MajidManzarpour wrote:
| 4o can do some basic sprite sheets, fidelity isn't perfect but
| it can be cleaned up
| https://x.com/majidmanzarpour/status/1905666221225197790
| PeterStuer wrote:
| My number one ask as am almost 2 year OpenAI in production user:
| Enable Tool Use in the API so I can evaluate OpenAI models in
| agentic environments without jumping through hoops.
| killthebuddha wrote:
| https://platform.openai.com/docs/guides/agents#tools
| qhwudbebd wrote:
| I hope the images support in the responses API is more
| competently executed than the mess piling up in the
| v1/images/generations endpoint.
|
| To pick an example, we have a model parameter and a
| response_format parameter. The response_format parameter selects
| whether image data should be returned as a URL (old method) or
| directly, base64-encoded. The new model only supports base64,
| whereas the old models default to a URL return, which is fine and
| understandable.
|
| But the endpoint refuses to accept any value for response_format
| including b64_json with the new model, so you can't set-and-
| forget the new behaviour and allow the model to be parameterised
| without worrying about it. Instead, you have to request the new
| behaviour with the older models, and not request it (but still
| get it) with the new one. _sigh_
| qhwudbebd wrote:
| Another masterpiece of elegance: v1/images/generations supports
| only application/json requests, whereas v1/images/edits
| supports only multipart/form-data. (The keys expected by the
| two calls are otherwise entirely compatible.)
| JPKab wrote:
| As a paying customer, you get completely hosed every time they
| add a new feature for the non-paying users.
|
| The website is barely responding today, and the Desktop client
| always has massively degraded performance. Really annoying having
| their desire for user growth killing the experience for those of
| us who are financing it.
| hombre_fatal wrote:
| I would have expected an API like: let imageId
| = api.generateImage(prompt) let {url, isFinished} =
| api.imageInfo(id)
|
| But instead it's: let bytes =
| api.generateImage(prompt)
|
| It's interesting to me how AI APIs let you hold such a
| persistent, active connection. I'm so used to anything that takes
| more than a second becoming an async background process where you
| notify the recipient when it's ready.
|
| With Netflix, it makes sense that you can open a connection to
| some static content and receive gigabytes over it.
|
| But streaming tokens from a GPU is a much more active process.
| Especially in this case where you're waiting tens of seconds for
| an image to generate.
| starik36 wrote:
| I can understand that for text answers, but what can you
| possibly do with streaming tokens for images?
| radicality wrote:
| AFAIK, The newer models for image gen like this OpenAI one,
| don't actually use the normal diffusion process (image
| generates all at once from blurry to finished), but use
| transformer architecture where the full final image is
| generated from top to bottom, as a stream of 'tokens'.
|
| That's why when you generate an image in chatgpt nowadays, it
| will start displaying in full resolution from the top pixel
| row and start loading towards the bottom.
| johnyzee wrote:
| I wanted to try this in the image playground, but I was told I
| have to add a payment method. When adding this, I was told I
| would also have to pay a minimum of $5. Did this. Then when
| trying to generate an image, I was told I would have to do
| "verification" of my organization (?). OK, I chose 'personal'. I
| was then told I have to complete the verification though some
| third party partner of OpenAI, which included giving permission
| to process my biometric information. Yeah, I don't want to try
| this that bad, but now I already paid you and have to struggle to
| figure out how to get my money back. Horrible UX.
| rideontime wrote:
| Chargeback. Yes, this may result in your being banned from
| purchasing any OpenAI services in the future; I would see this
| as an added benefit to prevent making the same mistake again.
| vizzah wrote:
| Be aware that OpenAI API credits expire after a year. I've
| added $5 year ago expecting to use the API, but only consumed
| $.02 or something. The API started throwing out "Too many
| requests" HTTP error when I needed it again and ooops!.. there
| were nothing left. All credit has gone.
|
| Wouldn't have expected that from a honest player.
| funwares wrote:
| Big thanks for the heads up, I had no idea about this.
|
| It looks like I will not be able to get any prepaid money
| back [0] so I will be careful not to put any further money on
| it.
|
| I guess I better start using some of the more expensive APIs
| to make it worth the $20 I prepaid.
|
| [0] https://openai.com/policies/service-credit-terms/
|
| 4. "All sales of Services, including sales of prepaid
| Services, are final. Service Credits are not refundable and
| expire one year after the date of purchase or issuance if not
| used, unless otherwise specified at the time of purchase."
| gitroom wrote:
| Man, pain in the ass just to try an image API, and then all these
| hoops for payments, ID, even biometrics? Stuff like this always
| makes me think does anyone up top even try their own product? you
| figure all this extra friction just ends up pushing users
| somewhere else?
| system2 wrote:
| Jesus, $0.19 for an image you may or may not use. I think it is
| still super expensive to be useful. I go through 10 AI images
| until I find a useful one. This might not work for everyone.
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