[HN Gopher] Finland is painting deer antlers with reflective pai...
___________________________________________________________________
Finland is painting deer antlers with reflective paint (2014)
Author : andrewfromx
Score : 82 points
Date : 2025-04-21 00:36 UTC (3 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.smithsonianmag.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.smithsonianmag.com)
| edelbitter wrote:
| "none of the efforts have helped reduce the annual 4,000 reindeer
| road deaths"
|
| https://apnews.com/general-news-801aa30308b24b459251c60d569d...
| altairprime wrote:
| Have they had better luck with wildlife crossings since 2016?
|
| https://transportation.libguides.com/c.php?g=849313&p=607536...
| Gigachad wrote:
| Slowing speeds would work
| genewitch wrote:
| I don't know reindeer but white tailed deer, possums,
| raccoons, rabbits, and nocturnal birds don't care how fast
| you're going. As someone else mentioned, you can be stopped
| and they'll run into your vehicle.
|
| None of these animals instincts prepared them for the
| cacophony and lightshow of transportation. Everyone doing
| 15mph might solve 90% though, but I'll let that be your
| running platform.
| sl-1 wrote:
| But lower speeds do make crashes a lot less deadly.
| Probably also less probable, as people have more time to
| react
| HPsquared wrote:
| It doesn't follow that because the number didn't go down, that
| means the efforts did or didn't help. You need to think of the
| overall picture, are there other factors causing it to increase
| and would the number have been even higher without these
| efforts? The simple fact of the number not going down, doesn't
| really say much.
| timonoko wrote:
| aka "Legal way to kill & steal a reindeer". That is why there are
| so many accidents.
| ReptileMan wrote:
| They make tasty snacks.
| aiauthoritydev wrote:
| Worth risking insurance premiums going up or potential
| physical harm as well ?
| Onawa wrote:
| Grill guards are a common sight in rural areas. I have
| known a few people of questionable moral character who have
| no issue aiming for deer/elk on the road and processing the
| meat themselves. https://a.co/d/d86EVHD
| FredPret wrote:
| That grill would work unless the deer gives a tiny hop -
| as they tend to do - and goes right into your windshield
| vintermann wrote:
| Reindeer don't hop very well, though.
| Moru wrote:
| You better have a high car then, elks are big. You just
| end up pushing the legs away and the heavy part goes into
| your lap through the windshield.
| skyyler wrote:
| Are you saying that people intentionally strike reindeer with
| their automobiles?
|
| That sounds far-fetched to me, but I could also see it as a
| form of dangerous poaching.
| Moru wrote:
| People do it out of spite. We have similar problems with the
| white population hating the Sami similar to what USA has had
| with Indians. There were cases just outside of Umea close to
| the winter rally where some raindeers were killed. [0]
|
| The drivers feel that the Sami puts the reindeer on the road
| to be in the way and cash in on the money they get for the
| killed raindeers. (Secret tip: It's not enough to be worth it
| to watch your domestic animals die in your hands or be forced
| to finnish them off yourself because the owner are forced to
| take care of the dead animals.)
|
| [0] https://swedenherald.com/article/three-reindeer-killed-
| linke...
| thaumasiotes wrote:
| > We have similar problems with the white population hating
| the Sami
|
| What does "white" mean to you?
|
| It seems pretty clear that the Sami are white:
|
| https://www.ecowatch.com/wp-
| content/uploads/2021/10/12813432...
|
| https://www.ecowatch.com/wp-
| content/uploads/2021/10/39091306...
|
| https://atmos.earth/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/sami-
| people-E...
|
| https://atmos.earth/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/sami-
| people-0...
| Y-bar wrote:
| The indigenous Sami does have white skin, but they have a
| different ancestry compared to "regular"/other
| Scandinavians. They were for a long time legally
| forbidden from expressing their culture and religion, and
| are still harassed by individuals and groups.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_S%C3%A1mi
| timonoko wrote:
| No. Swedish Sami are almost all whitehaired
| Scandinavians. Famously depicted longnoses like Peter
| Stormare in the movies.
|
| In 1800 Sweden and Norway made it impossible to follow
| herds around in Nomadic Style so they all escaped to
| Finland and Russia.
|
| The "Sami" you see today are Swedes who adopted the
| lifestyle when certain restriction were lifted and
| Reindeer-herding become monopoly of Sami. Declaring
| Samines was just a formality.
|
| All nordic "Sami" oppose DNA-testing, as they clearly are
| very different from real Sami living in Russia.
| Y-bar wrote:
| Is this Poe's Law in action? I can seriously not tell if
| this is satire.
| vintermann wrote:
| There are so many weird theories like these.
|
| No, Sweden and Norway did not make it impossible to
| follow herds around. They had so little state presence up
| north, they hardly could even if they had wanted to! Once
| state power started to reach Northern Sapmi for real, one
| of the first things Sweden and Denmark/Norway managed to
| agreed on (despite regular wars!) was rights for reindeer
| herders to cross borders as they used to. This wasn't to
| be nice, but because reindeer herders were very
| profitable tax subjects with a lot of highly mobile
| capital (so mobile it could move on its own!), and
| neither Sweden or Norway wanted to scare them off to the
| other side.
|
| What did happen is that Denmark-Norway and Sweden didn't
| want to involve Russia-Finland in this early brotherly
| deal (especially, Norway didn't want to let Russians fish
| in Norwegian fjords), and so Russia closed its borders,
| including to the nomads. A few got stuck on the Russian
| side, but most stayed in Sweden and Norway. This forced
| the reindeer herders to push further south (with
| government blessing, as mentioned they were highly
| profitable subjects) and into the lands of non-herding
| Sami causing a lot of problems, but that's another story.
| This is why Norway and Sweden have far more Sami than
| Russia and the former Russian duchy, Finland. Reindeer
| herders were also the main preservers of the Sami
| language, due in no small part to their wealth and pride
| in their distinctness - how exactly does the Sami
| language factor into your theory that today's Sami are
| just cosplaying Swedes?
|
| (Also, if Sami are so opposed to DNA testing, why do I
| have half of Karasjok in my match list at ftdna?)
| timonoko wrote:
| Erh What? You are obliged to kill an injured animal. So you
| just break a leg and remove all owner's markings, if nobody
| saw the accident.
|
| Fur is EUR300 and canned meat is EUR10 / 100 grams. So 50
| kilo reindeer is eventually worth over EUR5000.
| timonoko wrote:
| There is some misunderstanding about Reindeer's legal
| status and civil rights, especially in Finland. Learn from
| Grok:
|
| Yes, anybody can own a reindeer in Finland, but there are
| important regulations to follow. Reindeer herding is a
| traditional livelihood, particularly for the Sami people,
| and is heavily regulated, especially in the northern
| Reindeer Husbandry Area (covering about 36% of Finland).
| Here's a breakdown: Private Ownership: You can own a
| reindeer as a private individual, similar to owning other
| livestock. There are no explicit laws prohibiting non-Sami
| or non-residents from owning reindeer, but practical and
| legal considerations apply.
|
| Reindeer Husbandry Area: In this designated region (mostly
| Lapland), reindeer herding is managed by the Reindeer
| Herders' Association. If you want to keep reindeer here,
| you must coordinate with local herding cooperatives, as
| grazing lands are shared. Unauthorized herding can disrupt
| communal practices.
|
| Outside the Reindeer Husbandry Area: South of this area,
| you can keep reindeer on private land (e.g., as pets or for
| tourism), but you need permission from the local
| agricultural authority, as reindeer are considered
| livestock under Finnish law.
|
| Practical Challenges: Reindeer require specific care (e.g.,
| grazing land, protection from predators). Without
| experience or infrastructure, it's challenging to keep
| them. Most owners are part of herding cooperatives due to
| the animals' semi-wild nature and migratory needs.
|
| Legal Requirements: You must register reindeer with
| authorities, mark their ears for identification, and comply
| with animal welfare laws. The Finnish Food Authority
| oversees livestock regulations.
|
| Cultural Sensitivity: Reindeer herding is central to Sami
| culture. Non-Sami owning reindeer, especially for
| commercial purposes, can be sensitive if it competes with
| traditional herding.
|
| If you're considering owning a reindeer, you'd need to:
| Check if you're in the Reindeer Husbandry Area and contact
| the local cooperative.
|
| Secure land and permits.
|
| Ensure you can meet the animal's needs.
|
| For specific guidance, contact the Reindeer Herders'
| Association (Paliskuntain yhdistys) or local agricultural
| authorities. If you want me to search for real-time
| information or analyze related content (e.g., from X or the
| web), let me know!
| kbelder wrote:
| >EUR10 / 100 grams
|
| Really? That's roughly equivalent to $50/pound! I
| understand that may change from region to region, but that
| seems ten times too expensive.
| timonoko wrote:
| A 200g can of reindeer meat costs 15 EUR. In Rovaniemi.
| Add transport and tariffs.
| laurencerowe wrote:
| I accidentally bought frozen reindeer meat while living
| in Norway about 15 years ago, though I think I only paid
| about 300kr / 30EUR for a 1-2kg pack. Tasted quite good
| in a lasagne!
| Ekaros wrote:
| Canned meats outside most generic beef and pork products
| in style of luncheon meat are surprisingly expensive.
| Probably just not enough scale, even if they store well.
| ReptileMan wrote:
| Won't that make them prime target for predators? Wolves also love
| to munch. And a lighthouse proclaiming dinner is here won't be
| helping their chances of survival either.
| oe wrote:
| Do wolves have a light source or what are the antlers
| reflecting in this scenario?
| lethal-radio wrote:
| Moonlight, streetlights
| Moru wrote:
| > Latest estimates indicate 32-38 wolf packs and 18-25 pairs of
| wolves in Finland as of March 2021. [0]
|
| > Finnish Lapland has a reindeer population of about 200,000.
| That's 20,000 more reindeer than people! [1]
|
| [0] https://www.helsinkitimes.fi/finland/news-in-
| brief/19376-fin...
|
| [1] https://www.lapland.fi/visit/meet-reindeer-ailo/year-of-
| the-...
| codr7 wrote:
| Won't that also make them trivial to hunt?
| Moru wrote:
| Illegal to hunt domestic animals.
| aiauthoritydev wrote:
| Another approach could be to have wildlife camera all around and
| when you detect a deer on cam, show special signals on the road.
| Moru wrote:
| The reindeer is not randomly showing up out of the forest. They
| are herded. The people herding them is putting up plenty of
| signs. But the reindeers are not on the actual road the whole
| time so people stop bothering about the signs. And some just
| drive really fast and realize too late that the warning signs
| in the cars manual that says "This function does not stop the
| physical laws from working." might be correct.
|
| The raindeer is not affraid of cars, they just stand there
| doing nothing until they get hit. It might be a big herd with
| hundreds of animals on the road and another thousand in the
| surrounding forest so not much place to run either.
| vanattab wrote:
| I don't understand how this was going to work? Was the plan to
| paint every year them all every year? I am not very familiar with
| reindeer but don't they shed the antlers every year like
| whitetail? So for most of the year they don't have antlers or
| they are growing them and they are covered with a soft velvet and
| only harden and scrap off the velvet layer on tress right before
| breading season. They fight and breed then shed thier antlers.
| You would have a very short window after they scrape thier velvet
| to paint and it would only be good for a 3-5 months at most.
| Granted at least for whitetail most of the accidents happen
| during the breeding season (like humans, male deer can be pretty
| reckless when it comes time to mate)
| rdtsc wrote:
| > Anne Ollila, chairwoman of the Reindeer Herders Association
|
| These seem to be either domesticated or herded on certain
| territories by natives. So spray painting a herd may not be as
| hard as it sounds.
|
| From https://reindeerherding.org/world-reindeer-herders
|
| > The Association of World Reindeer Herders is a voluntary
| civil society organization for all the 24 different nomadic
| indigenous peoples who make a living from reindeer herding
| across 10 nation-states in the circumpolar north, formally
| founded during the 1st World Congress of Reindeer Herders in
| 1997.
| Kon-Peki wrote:
| Sure, give it a shot!
|
| Reindeer are the only deer where the male and female both grow
| antlers, so it could help.
|
| But... antlers fall off and regrow the next year, so you'd have
| to keep repainting...
|
| Also, when the males rut, they tend to scrape their antlers on
| trees, so that's probably not good for keeping paint on the
| antlers. Bonus! Finnish drivers will likely be able to see
| reflective trees and avoid them!
| 85392_school wrote:
| (2014)
| valbaca wrote:
| Deers also shed their antlers yearly...so who's maintaining this?
| comrade1234 wrote:
| Just a random WI deer story. I have a few but here's one.
|
| I was driving on a two-lane highway and saw a deer up ahead on
| the side of the road so I started slowing down. The deer saw me,
| panicked and ran into the brush/woods, then changed direction and
| ran out and back toward the highway. I kept slowing. It changed
| direction and ran back toward the woods, changed direction again
| and ran back toward the highway. By now I was at a full stop and
| parallel to the deer. It ran head first into the side of my
| truck, fell down, got up and sort of stumbled back into the
| woods...
| INTPenis wrote:
| Was there a game fence preventing it from entering the woods
| maybe? Not sure how you do in WI but here in Sweden highways
| are always lined with game fences.
|
| The sad thing is when an animal somehow gets over it, under it,
| however, and is then trapped on the highway side.
| zdragnar wrote:
| We don't really have game fences like that here. The closest
| thing is sound barriers along freeways through suburban and
| urban areas which occasionally trap animals, but even then
| there's usually enough room along the side of the road a
| spooked animal won't feel the need to run back towards the
| road after fleeing it.
| 83 wrote:
| There are two classes of highways in WI. Large, divided, 4+
| lane highyways which always have game fences, and two lane
| 'county highways' which do not have fences. Parent is
| referring to the latter.
|
| The game fences that do exist aren't really tall enough for
| deer, maybe 2m tall at best so deer are constantly jumping
| them. I've always wondered why they aren't taller - I suspect
| they are more for escaped cows and horses than for deer.
| bell-cot wrote:
| My guess: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_wasting_disease
|
| And based on the USGS map, it is very common in WI.
| mikeyouse wrote:
| Eh, deer are just very stupid and indecisive when there are
| headlights. That's why "shining" while hunting is illegal.
| There's a chance that it had CWD but given my experience with
| them in Michigan, it's just as likely to have been a dumb
| one.
| gaoryrt wrote:
| Reindeer under headlights: Oh, I think it's my time.
| OneLeggedCat wrote:
| During the rut, I've seen muleys here in Montana act absolutely
| bonkers. I once saw a young but large buck darting in and out
| of traffic, playing chicken with oncoming 50 mph vehicles, to
| impress a group of does. He'd run across the road right in
| front of a car, then pronk around proudly while the does stared
| at him.
| trilbyglens wrote:
| Sounds like human males in rut
| CoastalCoder wrote:
| If only it were _seasonal_ for us human males.
| FredPret wrote:
| > while the does stared at him
|
| I hope they stared in horror and not arousal, otherwise these
| deer will never learn
| lupusreal wrote:
| This is common, deer are incredibly stupid. For those
| postulating the existence of a fence, no. They do this when
| there is no fence, both at night and also in broad daylight
| when there are no headlights to dazzle them either.
| bethekidyouwant wrote:
| They are painting antlers. No information on how they are going
| to do this every year. (since antlers are only around for eight
| months a year and I imagine you have to paint them once they're
| fully grown so four months in?) What an absolutely useless
| article, how do you actually bag and tag every reindeer in the
| entire country, it makes absolutely no sense
| Moru wrote:
| I guess they think the whole world knows about domestic animals
| in northern europe. This is not wild animals we are talking
| about, then it makes some sort of sense, right.
| Tuna-Fish wrote:
| There are no wild reindeer in Finnish Lapland. Every reindeer
| has an owner. The Sami, who practice large-scale reindeer
| herding, routinely round up every reindeer in the country every
| year.
|
| They also prevent predation by exterminating all predators that
| threaten their herds.
| alistairSH wrote:
| Even with the herds being owned/domesticated, you still have
| the issue of antlers being shed regularly. And do female
| reindeer grow them (white tail doe do not, that's what we
| have here in DC metro)?
| fifilura wrote:
| Title should be changed to reindeer, not deer. As those are
| domesticated by the Sami people. Then it makes more sense and
| should not be a major task, since they are regularly caught to be
| ear-marked for example. In general a good idea IMO.
|
| For deer it would be trickier, but I imagine you could somehow do
| it by setting up feeding stations (pretty common with hunters)
| and spray them when they approach it. But it would be messy. Now
| my imagination is wandering, please stop me.
| joecool1029 wrote:
| It's not possible at all to do this for white-tailed deer. The
| does and fawns don't grow antlers. My state, NJ, has a
| population of over 100,000 deer and average densities over 100
| individuals per square mile (with some areas over double that).
| tantalor wrote:
| You could snare the does and put high-vis reflective vests on
| them.
| squigz wrote:
| Do they need a hard hat too?
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| At 100 animals/sq-mile if they could snare them, they'd
| probably just shoot them at that point.
| recursive wrote:
| Indeed. You might as well try to paint all the squirrels or
| pigeons.
| LeifCarrotson wrote:
| Squirrels and pigeons don't regularly weigh 120 lbs, don't
| like to eat the grass on road shoulders at dawn and dusk,
| and as a result they don't total nearly as many cars.
|
| But all of these are far less dangerous than a 500 lbs
| reindeer, 600 lbs elk, or 1400 lbs moose!
| recursive wrote:
| I'm not talking about reasons why we'd like them to be
| painted, just the feasibility of actually accomplishing
| it.
| Izikiel43 wrote:
| Sounds like you need wolves
| recursive wrote:
| There was an old lady who swallowed a ...
| joecool1029 wrote:
| The coyotes are evolving up in size to fill that niche,
| it's becoming a problem.
| _aavaa_ wrote:
| Wouldn't that be a death sentence by making them super easy for
| predators to spot?
| ntonozzi wrote:
| Luckily most predators don't use headlights.
| _aavaa_ wrote:
| No, but their antlers are now white and likely reflect more
| light in general than uncoated.
| Hamuko wrote:
| Are deer relying on hiding from predators or are they just
| relying on being able to escape predators? Deer are fairly
| large animals so they're kinda conspicuous already. I think
| they also don't get white coats during winter, so they stick
| out from the snow.
| sandworm101 wrote:
| Antlers are weapons. Most predators will avoid the food with
| knives on its head. From a darwinian perspective, it is also
| probably better that the wolves pay attention to the well-
| armed male deer rather than the productive females that do
| not have antlers.
| jmclnx wrote:
| It is a good idea, but how ?
|
| I believe deer loose their antlers every year. Painting thousands
| of deer every year seems impossible.
|
| Or are the referring to deer that are being herded ?
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reindeer_herding
| tokai wrote:
| Yes, they are livestock. The amount of wild reindeer in finland
| is a rounding error compared to herded reindeer.
| pelagic_sky wrote:
| Reminds me of efforts to reduce roadkill in Australia.
|
| "The virtual fence is the latest attempt to reduce wildlife-
| vehicle collisions. It uses a line of posts spaced along the
| roadside, each with a unit producing loud sounds and flashing
| lights aimed away from the road. Vehicle headlights activate the
| units, which are claimed to alert animals and reduce the risk of
| collision."
|
| https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/topics/wildlife/2024...
| anyonecancode wrote:
| We have that in a forested section near me in New Jersey. I
| think it might be this: https://deerdeter.com/
| yieldcrv wrote:
| Is finland still doing this?
| Ndymium wrote:
| No, it was a test for a year and deemed a failure.
| FredPret wrote:
| We should genetically modify some males to glow in the dark, much
| like how we neuter mosquitoes by using a few modified males.
|
| /s
| melling wrote:
| Sounds like a job for AI and a HUD. We have deer in my area. I
| need something. I drive slowly but k owing when they're around
| would be helpful.
| spcldvlpr wrote:
| There were experiment painting reindeer antlers here in Finland.
| But it failed, the paint wont last. So nothing to see here
| really. Yet another internet "thing" circling around
| nntwozz wrote:
| Did they try other alternatives, like reflective tape? Wrap it
| around like handlebar tape. Make it degradable or else the
| woods will fill up with junk.
|
| Let's brainstorm some more, design a special hunter-seeker
| robot powered by AI that captures deer in the wild and performs
| this menial task.
|
| Thank you, I'll show myself out.
| flanked-evergl wrote:
| You seem to have forgotten to take your comment out with you.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Bio-engineer the animals so their antlers and/or fur becomes
| reflective itself, and / or glow in the dark.
| cardamomo wrote:
| Bio-engineer vehicles that instinctively avoid deer.
| fragmede wrote:
| If we're doing that level of bioengineering, the other
| direction would be to have the vehicles be able to eat
| any deer that cross its path for fuel. The circle of life
| doesn't work without predators at the top who eventually
| die themselves, returning their energy to the beginning
| of the cycle.
| carlhjerpe wrote:
| I think what fancy cars do with infrared cameras is the actual
| solution. I don't know what's so prohibitively expensive about
| infrared cameras, I think it should be standard in "mid+tier"
| cars in the nordics and similars. However fencing has become
| very supermegamuch better which works well too, i guess because
| of more automated installation
| mystified5016 wrote:
| ITER. Thermal cameras are used in missile guidance, so the US
| makes it hard to get good thermal cameras.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Not to mention they have to round up all the deer and paint
| each and every one of them first. Which is probably fine for
| farmed deer but not wild ones.
| ajb wrote:
| A few years ago someone made a fluorescent GM rabbit. I guess if
| they give that gene to a deer after a few generations it would
| spread through the population and solve the issue. If we consider
| it safe and ethical to release GM animals into the wild...
| gadders wrote:
| I was surprised how many dead deer I saw driving down the M11/A11
| in Norfolk. I think I counted 10 dead muntjac.
| xvfLJfx9 wrote:
| Looks like the Regal Ancestor Spirit from Elden Ring, lol.
| blutack wrote:
| In the New Forest national park in the UK (where there are about
| 5000 free roaming ponies) they've been fitting them with
| reflective/hi-viz collars for years. Makes them much easier to
| see at night in winter.
|
| https://www.hlsnewforest.org.uk/2024/10/24/reflective-collar...
| _vere wrote:
| I feel like this would fuck with me if i was a deer, imagine
| someone gets you, sprays stuff onto our antlers and suddenly they
| glow when light hits them, thats some animal body horror
| dominicrose wrote:
| They care about these animals but they are still animals, to
| dumb to avoid the road and they probably don't mind having such
| horns and it could save their life
| internet_points wrote:
| s/is/tried
| DuckOnFire wrote:
| Like imagine being a reindeer looking at your friend's glowing
| antlers at night!
| HPsquared wrote:
| I can just imagine them going up to roads to admire each
| others' reflective antlers in the headlights.
| DontchaKnowit wrote:
| This article is horrible. Theres barely any info and a single
| picture. This passes as journalism?
| lo_fye wrote:
| It's cool, BUT if this was done in America, all of those deer
| would be dead by daylight thanks to hunters. "Hi Hunters! Look!
| I'm here! See my glowing rack?! Yes, Over here! Shoot me!
| Shooooot Meeeeeeee!"
| rcstank wrote:
| Not necessarily. Many places require deer tags to be purchased.
| If you shoot a deer, you have to tag it. Many hunters also
| won't kill just any deer. It's often better to let the deer
| live for another season to let it mature.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2025-04-24 23:02 UTC)