[HN Gopher] It Does Not Take 21 Days to Form a Habit
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It Does Not Take 21 Days to Form a Habit
Author : rzk
Score : 79 points
Date : 2025-04-22 18:47 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (thelogicaloptimist.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (thelogicaloptimist.com)
| cryptoz wrote:
| Oh, _that_ kind of habit. The _good_ kind. It can take much less
| than 1 day to form a bad habit. I wonder how that asymmetry
| really is - were ancient humans less exposed to addictive
| substances and had no need to evolve a way to stop that? I have
| no idea what I 'm talking about so, I'll end the comment here.
| SketchySeaBeast wrote:
| My theory is that we don't come from a history of plenty or
| safety, so, in a pre-historical sense, if something feels good
| that's supposed to be the signal to keep doing it because it is
| going to go away and you can't really get too much of it.
|
| We were supposed to overeat because we wouldn't often get a
| chance. If we could be lazy and survive, then we should be lazy
| and preserve those calories because a time was going to come
| when we couldn't. It's the modern world that has all those
| natural predispositions screwed up. We can enjoy ourselves to
| excess in ways that we would never be able to in the wild,
| which then puts us in danger.
| Jhsto wrote:
| Maybe it's still a honeymoon thing for me but I've been trying
| out keto diet for few weeks and, anecdotally, now whenever I
| eat carbs I get a weird high. If you told me that people
| started farming to do it consistently, I'd believe you.
| Similarly, if I avoid carbs at all cost even for a day, by
| night I feel so bad that I must have some. Point is that as far
| as I can tell eating carbs is a habit/addiction as well, but
| much good has come from maintaining it.
| aaronbaugher wrote:
| I don't remember where I got this quote, but it makes sense
| to me: "Grains are a cheap caloric source that's allowed for
| the growth of tightly packed, heavily populated cities.
| Grains are good for civilizations. They are bad for
| individuals."
| pbhjpbhj wrote:
| >"If you're trying a new diet, attempting to quit smoking or
| changing any daily routine, don't expect new habits to be created
| in a week, or two or even three. Research suggests that the
| process requires 66 days (on average) and up to 8 months."
|
| Something about the title suggested it was going to be much less
| than 21 days; maybe it's the domain name biasing my reading of
| the title.
| NoTeslaThrow wrote:
| I had the same reaction. I think I'm just used to seeing
| headlines oversell their point.
| 0xTJ wrote:
| I agree that the title implies (or even declares) that it takes
| fewer than 21 days. I'd argue that the articles says that it
| _does_ take those 21 days, plus many more, making the title
| deceptive.
| lolinder wrote:
| Exactly, English semantics dictate that if it takes more than
| 21 days it must _first_ take 21 days.
| cco wrote:
| There is a very clearly implied only in the title. I agree
| that it should be included but it is unnecessary to convey
| the meaning imo.
| crazygringo wrote:
| There is not. I too assumed it must mean it takes less,
| otherwise there _would_ be an "only", or "It takes more
| than".
| voidhorse wrote:
| Yeah same here. I think it's because (most of the time)
| headlines are optimized for sentiment. I would have expected a
| title like "It takes more than 21 days..." to indicate it takes
| more
| rzk wrote:
| But it doesn't necessarily take more than 21 days. According
| to the linked article, the average modeled time to plateau
| was 66 days, but the range was from 18 to 254 days.
| hammock wrote:
| Effort is usually quoted as a minimum ("It takes 20 minutes to
| drive there" "It costs $100 to buy this") which leads to a
| strange quirk that the negative is then interpreted as being a
| lower minimum, rather than a higher one ("It does not take
| 20min to drive there, "it does not cost $100 to buy this")
| taeric wrote:
| Glad it wasn't just me.
|
| I have to think the research shows tighter distributions for
| some forms of habit?
| hansvm wrote:
| There's a tendency sometimes to leave certain words implicit.
| "It does not [even] take 21 days to form a habit." Some of
| those linguistic habits never leave their birthplace, giving
| you colloquialisms like "do you want to come with [us]" in the
| Midwest. Most don't have any regional association though, and
| sentences with dropped fragments sound perfectly normal, with
| your mind filling in the gaps.
|
| In this case, the sentence is correct (though ambiguous) as
| written, but it has the same words you often see from a longer
| phrase with an omitted word implied through tone and other
| vocal cues, a pattern used commonly enough that I'd wager most
| people interpret it the same as you.
| PaulRobinson wrote:
| It took me a few days to become a smoker, and a few weeks to get
| to the point of not wanting to smoke again (some decades later).
|
| It took me a week or so to start having a healthier breakfast and
| it become part of my routine, and I've been trying to have
| healthier lunches for years now (and still regularly fail,
| normally because at lunchtimes I'm tired, stressed and yearning
| for comfort foods like sandwiches and snack bars).
|
| I think anyone who believed exactly 21 days was the magic number
| for all habits, for all people, was grossly naive.
|
| But what I do find is that after 21 days it's no longer novel,
| it's just what you do, if somebody asks you what you do about X,
| you no longer say "I'm trying this new thing around X, and...",
| you tell them your new habit. Identifying that habit as part of
| who you are is key to it being sticky. For some people, and for
| some habits, that might be true after a week, or it might take a
| year, but it's an important step, and if you want that habit to
| stick you should get to it as fast as you can.
| aaronbaugher wrote:
| Jan 1, 2024, I made a resolution to change my diet (basically
| small, very simple meals with one cheat meal a week). I'd
| probably made a dozen such resolutions before without much
| success, but for some reason this one stuck right away. I never
| even had trouble sticking with it, and lost a pound a week over
| the next 10 months. Then I met my girlfriend and we went out to
| eat a lot, and that broke the habit. It seems like big life
| changes can reset habits.
|
| I wish I knew how I did it, because I've been unable to regain
| that same "this is just what I do now and it's fine" level of
| acceptance that seemed to be the key.
| Swizec wrote:
| > I wish I knew how I did it, because I've been unable to
| regain that same "this is just what I do now and it's fine"
| level of acceptance that seemed to be the key.
|
| Sometimes it's as simple as "doesn't hurt enough yet"
|
| My grandpa was a liter of wine per day (or more) kinda guy.
| Then he hit his 70's and it didn't feel good anymore. So he
| stopped and hasn't had a glass of alcohol since. Just doesn't
| feel like it. Even when others drink around him.
| rpmisms wrote:
| Actually making decisions is pretty great. I quit a really
| heavy nicotine addiction by simply deciding I wasn't going
| to use nicotine anymore.
| OnionBlender wrote:
| What is your healthier breakfast? I never really learned what
| is considered a healthy breakfast.
| cogman10 wrote:
| Mine is a bowl of old fashion oats, frozen mixed fruit (I
| like a blueberry/blackberry mix), and maybe some non-fat
| plain greek yogurt and/or a glass a of plain soy milk.
|
| Alternatively, a couple of scrambled eggs with a piece of
| toast and a bananna is fairly healthy.
|
| A fried egg on an English muffin also isn't a terrible way to
| start the day.
|
| Target ~400 cals, Try and get some protein and fiber in
| there. Watch out for saturated fats and high sodium (see the
| DASH diet for tips). If you are diabetic or risk diabetes,
| check out the glycemic index and shoot for low GI foods.
|
| That'd be my advice (I'm not a doctor, what I'm suggesting
| could be 1000% wrong.)
| blueyes wrote:
| B.J. Fogg makes this point in his book Tiny Habits. And his point
| *is* that you can form a habit in much less than 21 days, let
| alone 66.
|
| This whole question revolves around the effort/reward ratio of a
| behavior. When people talk about ~21 days, they're talking about
| doing a hard thing until it's second nature and seems easy.
|
| But there are other ways to make something seem easy, and there
| is another component in the ratio: reward. That is, even if
| effort stays the same, you can wire a habit by making the
| behavior more rewarding. (This is why people are able to get
| addicted to a substance after one dose -- because they can't
| forget the state they entered ... and it was so easy to get
| there.)
|
| So the takeaway here is the you can wire habits by decreasing the
| amount of effort to do something that you think is good for you
| -- eg if you want to hydrate more, place a glass near the sink so
| you drink water when you get out of bed in the morning -- *and*
| by increasing the reward. The whole trick is getting the ratio
| right.
|
| Cliche Silicon Valley example. I did an ice plunge, and it gave
| me a day long plunger's high. I didn't need to plunge for 21 days
| to get the habit. I started doing it 3 times a week after that,
| because I knew what I had to do to feel good.
|
| This actually gets to something Huberman calls "duration-path-
| outcome". Getting clarity on what you have to do (path); how long
| it will take (duration); and what the payoff is (outcome), can do
| wonders for motivation. Confusion kills action (and for that
| matter, all deals, since habits are just deals we make with
| ourselves). If you can get clarity, reduce the effort, and
| increase the amount of reward and your confidence in it, I think
| you can get to new habits really quickly.
|
| Fwiw, I wrote a little bit about forming habits here:
| https://vonnik.substack.com/p/state-changes-work-and-presenc...
| LtdJorge wrote:
| It took me 3 days to fully drop sugar from coffee, at 17 I think.
| Never liked sweets and pastry, though, but dropping every sugar
| drink took me more, a couple weeks, specially Nestea.
|
| Edit: took me 1 day to drop the remaining sugar, and plants in
| general.
| elros wrote:
| You don't eat plants? That's interesting, could you share more?
| cco wrote:
| No sugar and no plants means something like keto/carnivore
| diets.
| egypturnash wrote:
| It only takes a couple of days for a habit to stop, too. It's
| real easy to go from "I am a person who does this thing every
| day" to "I last did it half a week ago and I dunno".
|
| (Addictions are a different story of course.)
| ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
| I've always heard 90 days.
|
| However, as the article says, it really depends on _what_ habit
| we are trying to establish.
| gchamonlive wrote:
| If I'm counting the days to form a habit, I'm not really
| interested in forming that habit. That's just a means to an end
| for me. Maybe I'm waking up earlier to have more time for myself,
| or I'm developing a reading habit so I can finally finish reading
| Hegel.
|
| In all these cases the habit is secondary. It's all discipline
| and pain.
|
| But I think there is a better relationship to be had with habits.
| One that isn't unfairly tied to productivity. One that I can just
| enjoy the struggle until I form that routine, or I build up the
| familiarity or the skill to do something. That kind of attention
| changes something fundamental about my relationship with what I'm
| trying to internalize and make a part of myself. It's to learn to
| be constantly learning and improving without making it a burden
| or a chore.
| sublinear wrote:
| Trying to define any underlying logic would be to misunderstand
| what a habit is.
| Willingham wrote:
| For me, a habit is pretty well implanted into my life after 3
| months, but only after 3 years do I feel insured that it will
| stick for life.
| agumonkey wrote:
| Maybe a placebo, but having this 21 days target did help me start
| habits in .. about 3 weeks.
| mjparrott wrote:
| N=96, only followed for 84 days ... has his been replicated? How
| do they make claims beyond 84 days?
| tombert wrote:
| I lost about 60lbs last year because I was officially "obese" and
| I wanted to be a bit healthier.
|
| While the exact time that I formed the healthier "habit" is
| harder to quantify, I definitely felt like the first three weeks
| were the hardest. It did feel, almost overnight, by the beginning
| of week four it was relatively easy to keep my calorie intake
| lower.
| layer8 wrote:
| Regardless of that specific question, I found the book a great
| read.
|
| It also has a Wikipedia article:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psycho-Cybernetics
| yawnxyz wrote:
| it takes maybe 21 minutes to form a tiktok habit
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