[HN Gopher] Living with Lab Mice
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       Living with Lab Mice
        
       Author : kawera
       Score  : 32 points
       Date   : 2025-04-20 00:20 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (nautil.us)
 (TXT) w3m dump (nautil.us)
        
       | throwanem wrote:
       | > Through spending time with them, I learned that mice are not
       | the kind of beings that most humans think they are.
       | 
       | The same is true of every animal, I find - not only mice, and
       | certainly including humans.
        
         | addicted wrote:
         | Fortunately we've stopped torturing humans for research and
         | exploring them for their skin, labor and flesh.
         | 
         | Hopefully we can find ways to extend that humanity to the other
         | sentient creatures we currently exploit in the hundreds of
         | billions a year.
        
           | throwanem wrote:
           | "Exploiting," rather than "exploring," I think perhaps, and
           | to the extent you did not mean that first line as a sarcasm,
           | I would say we have made much albeit faltering progress in
           | recent years. Beyond that I agree with you wholeheartedly.
        
         | Jimmc414 wrote:
         | You should read the entire article.
         | 
         | the mice weren't "nice" because the trauma and fear from
         | laboratory experiences had conditioned them to be wary of human
         | interaction and have a preference for their own species on top
         | of a lack of understanding from humans what behaviors mice
         | actually find comfortable or meaningful.
         | 
         | Only after prolonged, patient interaction, especially with the
         | last mouse, Spokie, did the author experience genuine,
         | reciprocal communication and bonding
        
           | throwanem wrote:
           | I did not need to read the article to know something about
           | how laboratory animals behave. As a child I regularly had the
           | company of controls whom my mother opted to smuggle home once
           | their experiments had concluded - rather than, as was
           | officially required in the laboratory technician role from
           | which she has long since retired, euthanize them.
           | 
           | I suppose if the method required for same were not precisely
           | enough specified, we might argue that "safely and peacefully
           | lived out their allotted span of days" still qualifies as the
           | eponymous or nominal "good death." Mama will be 71 this year
           | but has not lost her wits. Would you like me to text and ask
           | if she remembers whether she broke that rule or only bent it?
           | 
           | I certainly will read the article properly, of course. I just
           | haven't yet made the time. But I will note, since you bring
           | it up, that the implicit distinction given there between
           | behaviorist and ethologist as two different kinds of bad is
           | indeed just the sort of distinction a philosopher might draw;
           | that is, valid, nuanced, interesting, and not at all
           | guaranteed to be remotely sound. The prototypical modern
           | ethologist is Jane Goodall, and the one whose work I've
           | myself most closely and productively studied is Mary Jane
           | West-Eberhard.
        
       | zabzonk wrote:
       | I recommend gerbils - they don't piss all over the place.
        
       | pimlottc wrote:
       | Beautiful and unexpectedly poignant. I thought this was a lovely
       | description of the "circle of life":
       | 
       | > First you are young and look for your place in life; then you
       | are strong and work on your projects; then you slow down; and
       | finally you become part of all there is before you were born.
        
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