[HN Gopher] Making a smart bike dumb so it works again
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       Making a smart bike dumb so it works again
        
       Author : franciscop
       Score  : 71 points
       Date   : 2025-04-19 09:57 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (francisco.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (francisco.io)
        
       | Aardwolf wrote:
       | > You can also charge this light with USB-C instead of the
       | original micro-USB.
       | 
       | A dynamo would be the next upgrade
        
         | dobladov wrote:
         | I can't state how convenient hub dynamos are, no noise, no
         | maintenance, unlikely to be robbed without stealing the whole
         | bike, it just works, perfect for a city bike.
        
           | tomn wrote:
           | I get why people like them, but they make way less sense when
           | you work out the capacity of an equivalent weight (not to
           | mention cost) of lithium cells.
           | 
           | It's easy to get to about 90Wh, which will run a dynamo-
           | powered light for 30 hours on max (most dynamos seem to be
           | rated 3W).
           | 
           | There are definitely cases where it makes sense, and not
           | having to keep batteries charged is nice, it's just easy to
           | miss how good batteries are these days.
        
             | tomsmeding wrote:
             | Not having to take the light off the bike and charge it and
             | then forget to take it back to the bike, not to mention
             | forgetting charging it and finding out when it's dark, is
             | _completely_ worth having a dynamo.
        
         | ortusdux wrote:
         | How much energy do they rob? I can't think of dynamos without
         | thinking of Bart Simpson -
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaKjmxb7Qlc
        
           | Xylakant wrote:
           | It depends both on the lights and the dynamo. Incandescent
           | lights used substantial chunks of your pedaling power. LED
           | lights need maybe 5W or so. Hub dynamos are pretty efficient.
           | For an untrained person your average power output is around
           | 100W. That means powering the light would be around 5% of
           | your power if you're using an efficient hub dynamo. That's in
           | the ballpark of "bad chain maintenance costs more energy"
        
             | consp wrote:
             | > Incandescent lights used substantial chunks of your
             | pedaling power.
             | 
             | Not solely caused by the lights as they are about ~5W
             | anyway (edit: the old one in my box of bike parts says
             | 6V/3W on the metal). The wheel dynamo's are insanely
             | inefficient and get hot everywhere which were the primary
             | ones used with most incandecant lights.
        
             | 0_____0 wrote:
             | hub dynamos are not particularly efficient. it's very
             | difficult to make an electric machine that is efficient at
             | the (very low speeds, relatively) that a bike wheel turns
             | at. 60% sounds about right. However, safety lights use much
             | less than 5W, and a modest but very useable headlight about
             | 3W, so your figures are otherwise pretty close.
        
           | hackingonempty wrote:
           | The best ones are roughly 50% efficient, 10W to output 5W but
           | some are much less, 14W to output 5W. ...and 3W with no load.
           | 
           | https://www.cyclingabout.com/how-much-do-hub-dynamos-
           | really-...
        
       | dheera wrote:
       | I detest this trend of needing an app for every piece of
       | hardware.
       | 
       | Just put the damn interface on the hardware. You are after all
       | selling the hardware, not the app.
        
         | jagged-chisel wrote:
         | They are _not_ selling the hardware. They are taking your money
         | in exchange for the privilege of utilizing the hardware they
         | created to use a service they built so their customers can
         | obtain data about your usage of the device and whatever it
         | connects to.
         | 
         | I fear that small companies without VC are the only ones
         | interested in making a thing they sell that doesn't require
         | some ongoing commitment from buyers. And those companies run
         | the risk of folding overnight. It's fine for the customers
         | since their hardware continues to function, but it's not an
         | attractive business model.
        
           | consp wrote:
           | > but it's not an attractive business model
           | 
           | It's been the business model for over 100+ years with bikes.
           | It's not an attractive VC buisness models as it cannot
           | needlessly extract wealth beyond the product sale. It is
           | double dipping as you fully pay for the bike, and people fall
           | for it somehow.
        
         | observationist wrote:
         | VCs mandate that every possible avenue of rent seeking be
         | exploited in order to maximize the amount and frequency of
         | transactions. You're not getting hardware funded; the VC will
         | steal your idea and pawn it off on some other party capable of
         | exploiting the potential for your product as a service. Because
         | if you don't, someone else will, and they'll have more money to
         | outcompete your product, because enshittification is how FAANG
         | got to be trillion dollar companies.
         | 
         | A person existing is sufficient to make these people assume
         | they are entitled to something for it.
        
           | kennywinker wrote:
           | The phrase rent-seeking is such a funny one to me. Like, if
           | rent-seeking is bad that should apply across the board. I.e.
           | being a landlord, literally seeking rent from tenants.
           | 
           | Yet I fear the issue most people on here have with "rent
           | seeking" is the harm it does to a theoretical idea of free
           | market capitalism - rather than the tangible harm of
           | extracting wealth from someone's need for a place to live.
        
             | teemur wrote:
             | Rent-seeking is a pretty well-known term that has not much
             | to do with rents.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking
        
               | kennywinker wrote:
               | "Rent-seeking is the act of growing one's existing wealth
               | by manipulating the social or political environment
               | without creating new wealth"
               | 
               | So, renting out a home. Just the manipulation of social
               | and political environment has already been done. Rent
               | sought, not rent seeking.
               | 
               | Rent as in rent paid to live in a home fits the
               | definition of "economic rent" perfectly. Because housing
               | rent is an example of economic rent. The cognitive
               | dissonance i am pointing out is that seeking economic
               | rent is bad, but using already created structures to
               | obtain economic rent is... not bad somehow?
        
       | tchock23 wrote:
       | If anyone is looking to do the opposite (i.e., make a dumb bike
       | smart) check out the QZ app (qzfitness.com). Made by a solo dev
       | who is amazing at support despite the tiny price and lack of
       | subscription. I have no affiliation, just thought anyone reading
       | the original post might be curious about the opposite...
        
       | c2xlZXB5Cg1 wrote:
       | The light placement (so the mudguard casts shadows) would drive
       | me insane
        
         | franciscop wrote:
         | Another problem is that when turning, the light doesn't follow
         | the handlebar, so it "stays behind" the curve. It's bright/wide
         | enough and I only drive in the city so neither problems are a
         | huge deal though.
        
           | consp wrote:
           | That is actually less of an issue as you might think, if the
           | light is designed properly. As you will have to look at the
           | corner before you ever shine the light directly towards it.
           | This is not much different from motorcycles.
           | 
           | Since this is a vanmoof (first edition probably) I think they
           | followed the design of "old fashioned" bikes which also lack
           | the turnability features as the light is attached to the
           | frame part of the central steering bar and not the insert
           | which turns with the steering wheel.
        
       | scottyah wrote:
       | I was hoping this was about the Copenhagen Wheel. I'd love if my
       | expensive brick could get going again. It was my first lesson in
       | "Don't trust a startup".
        
         | ortusdux wrote:
         | I've been eyeing a Pikaboost 2 conversion kit for a while now,
         | but I share your skepticism. For me it's more of a distrust of
         | first gen products than it is startups. Even apple messes up
         | 1st gen.
         | 
         | I live up a hill, and all my destinations are at sea level, so
         | I just want enough E-bike to get home at the end of the day.
        
         | pedantsamaritan wrote:
         | I thought I'd read about unbricking it.
         | https://www.reddit.com/r/ebikes/comments/1bis770/diehard_cop...
         | links to a private FB group that I haven't joined, but implies
         | maybe it hasn't been solved yet.
         | https://www.instructables.com/Build-a-Key-for-the-Copenhagen...
         | makes me think at least one piece of the puzzle has been.
        
         | consp wrote:
         | > I'd love if my expensive brick could get going again. It was
         | my first lesson in "Don't trust a startup".
         | 
         | This does not even require an app. Simply lock down all
         | hardware and make it economically unviable by charging 100+
         | euro for a 5 second "software update", which you need to do if
         | you ever unplug the battery for > 10 seconds. See the thousands
         | of Accell bikes (mostly Sparta branded) on dumps. You can get
         | them going again but that's only for diehard hobbyists and
         | requires custom hardware.
        
         | autoexec wrote:
         | I'm sure there are startups that won't screw over their users
         | even if they don't make it. Don't trust/buy any hardware that
         | requires a cell phone app to use though.
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | Weird. That looks so much like a Vanmoof which typically has
       | light buttons on the left handlebar. Might be a knockoff.
        
         | franciscop wrote:
         | It is an early edition Vanmoof, it has a single button on the
         | handlebar that was for the Bell, no button for the lights. I
         | could find little info about this model, it was only later
         | versions that were a lot more popular.
        
       | thih9 wrote:
       | > Now my bike has a button, you press it and the light turns on.
       | It's like magic how simple it is!
       | 
       | I recall no situations where I preferred an app as opposed to a
       | regular hardware button like this.
        
       | southernplaces7 wrote:
       | That companies would follow such absolute shit practices to the
       | people who trusted them with their money for actual physical
       | products is grotesque. It should even be treated as a type of
       | fraud, downright. Fuck these "smart device" manufacturers that
       | can't seem to help themselves against fucking the thing you
       | bought right over with bullshit fashionable tech trends that
       | barely work.
        
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       (page generated 2025-04-22 23:00 UTC)