[HN Gopher] FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing ...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       FTC takes action against Uber for deceptive billing and
       cancellation practices
        
       Author : pinewurst
       Score  : 252 points
       Date   : 2025-04-21 17:22 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.ftc.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.ftc.gov)
        
       | gkapur wrote:
       | I'm convinced I get more "deals" (temporary discounts) from Uber
       | without Uber One/after canceling it, which offsets the benefits
       | from Uber One.
       | 
       | I don't see those deals on Uber Eats so it feels like the real
       | value of Uber One is for heavy Uber Eats users.
       | 
       | PS. Worth going through the cancellation flow when you are up for
       | renewal as they will probably offer you 50% off Uber One.
        
         | xeromal wrote:
         | My brother did this for about 6 months. I can't remember
         | exactly how but he was always getting cheaper meals than me on
         | uber one. lol
        
         | zeroonetwothree wrote:
         | It's only worth it for Eats, yes. (I've had Uber One since 5
         | years)
        
         | candiddevmike wrote:
         | The deals for any of these meal services are bullshit in my
         | experience. There's a lot of hidden fees or minimum order
         | amount stuff that isn't apparent until you get to the checkout,
         | definitely not the great deal they have you believe you're
         | getting.
        
           | cogman10 wrote:
           | It's markup on markup on markup.
           | 
           | We have a restaurant where I can order a $10 meal and pick it
           | up myself. The same meal done through uber is $30. Everything
           | has a percentage added and there's at least 3 extra "you used
           | us" fees that get tacked on. All the menu items can have
           | anywhere from a 20->100% markup. It's quite insane.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Uber's sales reps convinced my company to sign up for a
         | business account for employee travel. Soon we started noticing
         | that advertised fares for the exact same ride were 20-40%
         | higher when the business profile was activated. Now the
         | guidance for employees is to always book rides using the
         | personal profile and file for reimbursement. I'm convinced that
         | Uber is only able to survive by scamming customers.
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | FWIW I used a business profile a few years ago because that's
           | the only way to not use your uber gift balance (we couldn't
           | expense gift balances), and didn't notice any discrepancy
           | between personal and business rates _for the base fare_.
           | Selecting  "business" disables any promos, which is likely
           | where the discrepancy is coming from.
        
       | laweijfmvo wrote:
       | > Users can be forced to navigate as many as 23 screens and take
       | as many as 32 actions to cancel.
       | 
       | I complain about dark patterns _a_lot_ but this one takes the
       | cake!
        
         | zeroonetwothree wrote:
         | Still better than having to call
        
           | oyashirochama wrote:
           | Fuck onstar to hell for their shit, you HAVE to call and
           | theres no way to digitally cancel.
        
             | _Algernon_ wrote:
             | Unless I had to call to make the order in the first place
             | I'd just chargeback at that point.
        
             | cogman10 wrote:
             | Sirus wasn't bad, but it was still a call which is
             | annoying.
             | 
             | The worst I've experienced was equifax. I signed up for a
             | free trial to see where my credit sat and what was up, then
             | cancelled. It was a phone call, 30 minute wait, and SUPER
             | weaselly behavior in the call center script. Something to
             | the effect of Them: "Hey we want to give you this free
             | gift", Me: "Will that gift keep my subscription active?"
             | Them: "yes". Repeated several times as they tried just a
             | bunch of avenues to not cancel my account. I literally had
             | to say "No, I just want you to cancel my account" or "Are
             | you going to cancel my account" like 20 times. It took over
             | an hour.
        
           | dec0dedab0de wrote:
           | Or go in person, like many gym memberships.
        
             | stogot wrote:
             | yes and have to do 2 months before end of plan, and they'll
             | still bill you for the next full month
        
               | gearhart wrote:
               | Worth noting that in the UK if you say << this is
               | obviously predatory and isn't going to hold up in small
               | claims court >> this requirement almost always disappears
               | and they tell you that just this one time they'll be nice
               | and cancel from today.
        
             | m463 wrote:
             | I had to send a registered letter to hq.
        
             | ohgr wrote:
             | Was in my local gym trying to set up a membership and
             | someone was in there screaming that it'd be easier to "burn
             | the gym to fucking ashes" than cancel the sub. Turns out
             | the cancellations person was only there on a Tuesday at
             | 10AM or something useless.
             | 
             | I walked out before I became another victim.
        
             | 3D0MR3991N wrote:
             | Just tell them you moved, that's why you're canceling, and
             | you live nowhere near any of their other branches therefore
             | it would be physically impossible for you to come in.
             | 
             | This works for me, and I have no qualms lying to circumvent
             | stupid tactics like these. I have turned into a LIAR when
             | speaking to customer service for stuff like this because it
             | just makes me more sympathetic as a customer, even though
             | it's insane and unfair that one has to do this as a sort of
             | social hack instead of the business just doing the right
             | thing.
        
         | gruez wrote:
         | I'd take that with a grain of salt. I've went through the
         | process to cancel an uber one trial recently, and I would say
         | it's not anywhere near "23 screens". Maybe the user in question
         | got unlucky and got hit with all the A/B trials, and they're
         | being super generous with what counts as a "screen", but the
         | process was relatively painless.
        
           | cogman10 wrote:
           | What was the process?
           | 
           | In my mind it should be something like 3 or 4 screens/prompts
           | max.
           | 
           | Account (1) -> Cancel (2) -> Are you sure (3) -> Why did you
           | cancel (4).
        
             | gruez wrote:
             | The complaint has some screenshots starting at page 15,
             | which I think is representative of the cancellation process
             | I went through. If you're being super generous (ie. start
             | counting from you first launched the app, and also
             | scrolling down as a "screen"), I can count 9-10 screens.
             | I'm not sure how you can get 23.
        
               | cogman10 wrote:
               | Annoying, but doable. The biggest issue is the "you can't
               | cancel within 48 hours" screen which is BS.
        
             | scoofy wrote:
             | I've literally experienced (not with Uber, probably around
             | 2010):
             | 
             | 1: Account
             | 
             | 2: Cancel
             | 
             | 3: Call this number.
             | 
             | 4: Call number.
             | 
             | 5: Welcome to Customer Service press... ... ...press 9 to
             | cancel.
             | 
             | 6: We need to confirm who you are. Give birth date, etc.
             | 
             | 7: Are you sure?
             | 
             | 8: Agent gets on the line.
             | 
             | 9: Why do you want to cancel?
             | 
             | 10: We are offering you a discount to continue and not
             | cancel, how about that?
             | 
             | 11: Cancel
             | 
             | 12: Are you sure again? (This time for real)
             | 
             | 13: Cancelled, but we are offering you a BIGGER discou...
             | this is when I hang up.
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | >3: Call this number.
               | 
               | For Uber? In the handful of times I've canceled uber one
               | trials I've never seen this. It's always through the app.
               | Not even the FTC complaint alleges this.
        
               | cogman10 wrote:
               | Are you in Cali? They have a state law that says "if you
               | can sign up online you have to be able to cancel online".
               | 
               | I ran into this with a NYTimes subscription I tried to
               | cancel. They detected I wasn't in a state with such
               | protections and removed the cancellation options while
               | not providing a way to cancel. Made things real hard to
               | shutdown.
        
               | NoTeslaThrow wrote:
               | Presumably they're specifically referring to uber rather
               | than the broader conversation about dark patterns in
               | canceling. I, too, remember how hard it was to cancel
               | ZipCar--I think I just ended up closing the credit
               | account it was backed by because I couldn't successfully
               | navigate the labyrinth of phone-based customer support to
               | cancel.
        
               | scoofy wrote:
               | I'm saying in general. Dark patterns _in general_ get
               | more ridiculous than most people can imagine.
        
               | tomp wrote:
               | Last time I tried to cancel a service (mobile phone,
               | Three, in the UK) they offered me the service for 5PS
               | (it's normally 20PS or more).
               | 
               | I should (pretend to) cancel more often!
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | Seems like a good job for a bot...
        
               | ToucanLoucan wrote:
               | > I should (pretend to) cancel more often!
               | 
               | I used to do this with the cable company but they seem to
               | have gotten wise to it. Last time I tried in 2020 they
               | basically told me to pound sand.
               | 
               | Fortunately I got fiber now and got to tell them to pound
               | sand instead.
        
               | rurp wrote:
               | This actually works reliably with quite a few companies,
               | especially large ones with low marginal cost services.
               | They will often have a standard script where they will
               | offer anyone calling to cancel a large discount for 3-12
               | months. People can, and many do, call back at the end of
               | each promo period to say they're cancelling and refresh
               | the discounted rate.
        
               | PebblesRox wrote:
               | I was part of a faith-based health sharing program for a
               | few years. When it came time to cancel my membership, I
               | had to call in and speak with a rep. I got past several
               | rounds of retention attempts and succeeded in cancelling.
               | The rep offered to pray for me before we ended the call
               | and asked if I had any prayer requests. I mentioned
               | something about getting over a bad cold and she said,
               | "you know, one of the benefits that we offer--"
               | 
               | I felt a little bit bad about hanging up but mostly I was
               | just mad.
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | I mean, in my case, I was literally forbidden from canceling.
           | I got a screen saying I couldn't cancel within 24 hours after
           | the monthly renewal.
           | 
           | Very clearly intended to combat "oh shit I need to cancel
           | that one" when the charge shows up in hopes you forget again.
        
             | rideontime wrote:
             | I'm trying to play Devil's Advocate, but I literally can't
             | think of another reason they would do this.
        
             | radicaldreamer wrote:
             | Pretty sure that's straight up illegal in many
             | jurisdictions
        
         | bradly wrote:
         | Both Uber and Lyft's pay-to-not-wait is about as dark as I've
         | encountered recently. It makes it extremely hard to get an
         | reliable wait time.
        
           | NoTeslaThrow wrote:
           | Not to mention they don't refund you you when they fail to
           | deliver the car on expected arrival.
        
             | cameldrv wrote:
             | This is my biggest aggravation. They consistently
             | underreport estimated pickup times. Dropoff times are
             | essentially universally significantly later than the
             | estimate before booking.
             | 
             | It's things like this that make agents potentially
             | exciting. So much of enshittification is wrapping an
             | essentially good service in a crappy and misleading UI to
             | drive extra revenue. If you can replace the lying UI with a
             | more honest one, and then do a fair and automatic
             | comparison between Uber and Lyft, a lot of the annoyance
             | goes away.
        
               | zippergz wrote:
               | This is the same thing the food delivery apps (including
               | Uber Eats) do. I have screenshots showing the estimated
               | delivery time pretty consistently jumping up anywhere
               | between 20% and 50% from what it shows on the initial
               | screen to what you get once you've placed the order. And
               | then often they don't even make that time estimate.
        
               | Fade_Dance wrote:
               | An accurate estimate isn't really possible with the food
               | delivery business model. Couriers will have 2-3 orders,
               | so if you are order 1 or two, there is a new variable
               | that enters the equation after you purchase the food.
               | They obviously add other items on a similar route, but
               | wait times and such are fairly random). Of course they
               | could do 1 order to 1 driver but that would double the
               | labor costs (sequential orders would be 2-3 deliveries
               | per hour max per courier, vs 4ish when optimized).
        
               | nrb wrote:
               | The estimate is not really that accurate even when you
               | pay the $4-5 more to be the first delivery.
        
               | cameldrv wrote:
               | Uber could provide a range or a point in the middle, but
               | it seems like they just estimate the best case scenario
               | and then it's usually not the best case.
        
         | redbell wrote:
         | This isn't just a dark pattern -- it's _dark matter_. The kind
         | where it says  'cancel anytime,' but when you actually try, it
         | throws up a screen like: _' Please proceed by faxing us from
         | the moon.'_
        
       | kayodelycaon wrote:
       | > Some users are told they have to contact customer support to
       | cancel but are given no way to contact them
       | 
       | A company can save a lot of money by not handling edge cases.
        
         | Loughla wrote:
         | Have an issue with my business listing on Google. They say I
         | need to contact support.
         | 
         | There is no support. It does not exist.
         | 
         | Why do they do these things?
        
           | lenerdenator wrote:
           | Because 1) it's cheaper 2) fuck you, that's why.
        
           | kayodelycaon wrote:
           | > Why do they do these things?
           | 
           | Because they can get away with it. Nestle has gotten away
           | with killing nearly ten million children since 1960.
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1977_Nestle_boycott
           | 
           | Companies have no morality. Unless someone holds them
           | accountable they're going optimize for making money.
        
           | candiddevmike wrote:
           | But I get called all the time from Google saying my business
           | listing isn't up to date! Google has fantastic, proactive
           | support. (/s)
        
         | jannyfer wrote:
         | In my experience, when you're within 24 hours or so of an
         | upcoming renewal, you have to contact support to stop the
         | renewal. And there isn't a prominent way to contact support,
         | because the contact form is hidden until you view a past order.
         | That's not really an edge case...
         | 
         | On another note, an actual edge case that happened to me is
         | that I was in a different country when my Uber One was about to
         | renew, but I had no way to cancel because the app kept
         | geolocating me and displayed a UI specific to my visiting
         | country. I got no Uber One benefits in that country anyway. So
         | I had to send an email to stop renewal, and while I was waiting
         | for a reply, I got charged. Support said they can't refund me,
         | and I ended up having to do a chargeback.
        
       | creddit wrote:
       | I was always able to cancel very easily. I've done so many X free
       | months of Uber One and it's been so much easier than cancelling
       | any number of other subscriptions (NYT has still been my worst
       | experience on that front). I'm surprised to see that as a
       | complaint tbh.
        
       | ivape wrote:
       | Anecdote:
       | 
       | Uber Eats markets a 2 for 1 deal that I would have only ordered
       | due to the deal. They always add both items when you take the
       | deal to the cart, but they suddenly changed it. I didn't realize
       | I had to manually add both, and only had one delivered. I called
       | them up and they only refunded a portion, and not the whole thing
       | without accounting for the fact that it was an opportunity cost
       | for me. I would have just bought something else, or not at all.
       | It's tin-foil hatting, but they coerced a purchase imho.
        
         | gruez wrote:
         | >It's tin-foil hatting, but they coerced a purchase imho.
         | 
         | That's not what "coerced" means. "Deceived", maybe.
        
           | thatcat wrote:
           | Finessed a sale through intentional misunderstandings
        
       | ProfessorLayton wrote:
       | Similar to CA's requirement for online cancellations if a
       | subscription is purchased online, there should be a rule that
       | requires the _same amount of steps to cancel as it takes to
       | subscribe_.
       | 
       | Yes it could still be gamed, but anyone who's worked on user
       | funnels knows that every added step reduces conversion, so it
       | would be self-balancing.
        
         | oyashirochama wrote:
         | God I wish OnStar held that standard.
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | "same amount of steps to cancel as it takes to subscribe"
         | 
         | I wonder... what if you artificially padded the signup process
         | with feel-good stuff?
         | 
         | - screen: Did you know, <picture of Scarlett Johansson>
         | Scarlett also uses this service?
         | 
         | - screen: Since you are signing up, we are adding a Free 10%
         | off voucher for <stuff!>
         | 
         | - screen: Our customer Service Representative (attactive
         | person) is always standing by!
         | 
         | etc...
         | 
         | - screen <n>: click [Yes] to sign up!
        
           | 9283409232 wrote:
           | This is a good way to lose a sale. Like the person you are
           | responding to said, I have done user funnel work and every
           | step between the desire to purchase and completing the
           | purchase is dropping users out the funnel. This is the idea
           | behind retailers like Amazon introducing one click purchase.
           | If someone has the impulse to buy you want to get as out of
           | their way as possible.
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | Someone's gonna try interpreting that as actual keystrokes.
           | 
           | "We made you enter your name and address and password and
           | credit card details. That's 204 steps!"
        
         | kmeisthax wrote:
         | The current head of the FTC's first act was to kill that exact
         | rule.
        
       | janalsncm wrote:
       | I use virtual credit cards for most of my subscriptions. If I
       | can't cancel via normal means, I cancel the card. We can do this
       | the easy way or the hard way.
       | 
       | Can't say whether this is the recommended method for all services
       | but it works for me.
        
         | reverendsteveii wrote:
         | I tried that with my real card and it turns out that if you
         | report a card lost/stolen and get a replacement behind the
         | scenes your bank will still forward some transactions from the
         | old card to the new one without having to update
        
           | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
           | Many years ago, I had an XBox 360 with a valid credit card
           | attached. With a ten year+ gap of service, I then connected
           | my account to a new Xbox. Somehow Microsoft was able to still
           | use and charge a ten year old credit card account even though
           | I have had many replacement cards in the intervening years.
        
             | olyjohn wrote:
             | [delayed]
        
       | JohnMakin wrote:
       | I'm disabled and rely heavily on food delivery apps and stopped
       | using uber/postmates about a year ago. I somehow got tricked into
       | paying $40 on a $6 order. I went back through the flow to see
       | where I messed up, the screen did show my order amount that I
       | expected, but after many many emails and messages with support,
       | this discount didnt apply because I didn't hit some "minimum" on
       | the order, so they went ahead and charged the full amount (not
       | what was displayed, or if it was, was done in an extremely
       | dishonest/obfuscated way).
       | 
       | I am far from a novice computer/device user. you're already
       | making a decent amount of money off me and the slave labor wages
       | you pay your workers, why try to aggressively milk every penny I
       | have? I stopped using it after their joke of an outsourced
       | customer support would not do anything but run me in circles. How
       | much did losing my business cost them in revenue vs. the blatant
       | petty theft in dark patterns would have gained? There has to be a
       | day where all these user hostile apps triggers some response from
       | people like "no, enough of this."
        
         | acdha wrote:
         | For us the line for several of those companies was when we had
         | several massively late orders where they lied and blamed the
         | restaurant rather than the fact that they were trying to keep
         | their costs down by underpaying drivers. I think the underlying
         | problem is that companies like Uber pitched themselves as tech
         | companies like Google or Facebook and locked in expenses like
         | compensation at correspondingly high levels, but there just
         | isn't that much margin in food delivery or unlicensed cabs not
         | matter how hard they squeeze, and it's an inherently local
         | service so they're always vulnerable to competition in their
         | most profitable markets.
        
       | martin8412 wrote:
       | Buying a few million worth of Trump coins will make that go away.
        
       | schmookeeg wrote:
       | Here I assumed I just fat-fingered something when doing an Uber.
       | I never sign up for the recurring charge stuff and recently saw
       | the UberOne subby and canceled it.
       | 
       | I guess now I'll be a party to the class action and get a gift
       | card in 10-12 years from this BS. Neat!
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | The latest dark pattern in all these apps is that they will mess
       | up your order/ride and then "refund" you in the form of account
       | credit. There's no way to actually get your money back. Trying to
       | contact support results in an endless loop of help screens and
       | chatbots. If you are able to figure out the magic combination of
       | options that will get you to a support agent they will say "sure
       | we will refund your money" but that is still only going to your
       | app account. The last time I had an issue I literally had to ask
       | them 3 times "I want you to confirm that you are refunding my
       | credit card the amount it was charged" for them to finally agree
       | to it. It is crazy what they can get away with.
        
         | tristor wrote:
         | The worst part is I have never figured out a way to spend any
         | of my Uber credits. I have hundreds of dollars in Uber credits
         | I've accumulated over the years, and I regularly use Uber, and
         | yet have never spent any credits.
        
           | darkwizard42 wrote:
           | When you choose your payment method in the ride selection
           | screen you should be automatically using credits (unless
           | those credits are for something specific, like Eats, or
           | something else).
           | 
           | I'm able to see this in my Uber app today (set a destination,
           | then at the bottom of the screen is a row for payment
           | options, clicking that will show you Uber balances (uber
           | cash), payment methods, and vouchers) and am located in the
           | US.
           | 
           | If you are not seeing this, I'm thinking you need to reach
           | out to support via email and have a long (probably
           | frustrating) conversation.
        
             | tristor wrote:
             | I do not see this, it always direct-charges my Amex. The
             | only credits I get auto-spent are my $15/monthly Amex
             | credits. Definitely will reach out to Support at some point
             | (whenever I get fed up and have time to burn, probably
             | while sitting waiting to board a flight).
        
               | darkwizard42 wrote:
               | Okay, are you able to at least see your vouchers and
               | other credits? I currently have a $5 credit applied from
               | a cancellation dispute so I think it should be working
               | for all credits.
        
         | hammock wrote:
         | Submit a credit card chargeback. They cannot charge you for a
         | service not rendered
        
           | alfalfasprout wrote:
           | Then you can't use it anymore... that's kind of a problem
           | when there's a duopoly in the rideshare space.
        
             | MrDarcy wrote:
             | What's the threshold for getting banned? I've done a few
             | chargebacks against Lyft since they removed all forms of
             | customer support and haven't gotten banned yet.
        
               | radicaldreamer wrote:
               | Uber is likely a lot more aggressive banning people as
               | that's how they operate all aspects of their business
        
               | HenryBemis wrote:
               | Uber was (and I have no idea if still is) the culture-bro
               | and rape-do-nothing-about-it company. I never forget that
               | when they come up in discussions.
        
             | acdha wrote:
             | The answer to that problem is not giving them more money.
             | They're going to use that money to try to drive competitors
             | out of the market and lobby for laws which harm riders and
             | drivers.
        
               | rs186 wrote:
               | It's not a choice for many people, like, easily many
               | millions in a city.
        
               | Retric wrote:
               | Where exactly is Uber the only option?
        
               | mparkms wrote:
               | There are lots of places in the US where if you don't
               | have a car your only reasonable options are an Uber/Lyft
               | or calling a cab that may or may not arrive.
        
               | BolexNOLA wrote:
               | In a city?
               | 
               | Cabs, busses, bikes, trains...
        
               | rd wrote:
               | Don't be intentionally obtuse - even for people living in
               | a place with public transport as encompassing as say NYC,
               | you _need_ some form of ride-sharing service eventually
               | in day-to-day life. Being banned from the duopoly of
               | ride-share services is a life-altering thing to happen.
        
               | bdangubic wrote:
               | though the commenter might have been obtuse to say that
               | _banned from the duopoly of ride-share services is a
               | life-altering thing to happen_ is quite mad. I live in a
               | city and have _never_ used a ride-share service. out the
               | pool of another dozen friends /co-workers 10 of them
               | seldom-to-never use it (we are all in 40's / early 50's).
               | so most definitely not "life-altering thing"
        
               | Spooky23 wrote:
               | Have you ever considered that perhaps others conduct
               | themselves differently?
               | 
               | I live in a small city. When I travel, I generally have
               | to be at the airport or train station between 4 and 530
               | AM. Uber put the taxis out of business, so the choice is
               | Uber, Lyft, wasting a half hour and alot of money
               | parking, or trying to find a black car service.
               | 
               | I was in Rome for business. The choice is Uber or the
               | local cab hailing app, which the cabs don't always
               | respond to, and the cabbie frequently tries to ripoff a
               | dopey foreigner.
        
               | HenryBemis wrote:
               | Heh, Rome!! The meter wrote EUR40, the taxi driver asked
               | for EUR60. He tried verbal-aggression and threatened to
               | call the police. I took a photo of the meter and asked
               | him to please call the police, I will show them the photo
               | and tell them that he threatened me. He took the EUR40
               | and went his merry way.
               | 
               | Once upon a time (around 2005-2006) I had a colleague
               | whose father was a taxi driver. He (the colleague) was
               | openly telling us that every cabbie cheats. Once in a
               | blue moon you find an honest one, or one whose cheating-
               | meter-subsystem is broken.
        
               | acjohnson55 wrote:
               | What do you mean? You can easily get by without ride
               | share in NYC. Not everyone even has a cell phone.
        
               | acdha wrote:
               | It's the opposite in cities: you're far more likely to
               | have alternative options like taxis, transit,
               | bike/scootershare, etc. than in rural areas.
        
         | teeray wrote:
         | The worst thing is that you can't even do a chargeback,
         | otherwise you get banned. There is no recourse for the
         | consumer. If this is their solution for fighting chargebacks,
         | they should get banned from accepting Visa / MC / AMEX.
        
           | csharpminor wrote:
           | Another sketchy practice: if you get Uber Cash through a card
           | like Amex, when you go to use it the price for the ride is
           | automatically $15-$20 more than someone who doesn't have an
           | Uber Cash balance.
           | 
           | I've checked this side by side with colleagues at the airport
           | getting ride quotes to the same hotel. When you have Uber
           | Cash they will quote you more. You can find numerous Reddit
           | threads on the topic as well.
           | 
           | This feels very illegal to me, but not a lawyer.
        
             | radicaldreamer wrote:
             | Send in a complaint to your state attorney's general
        
             | vecinu wrote:
             | I notice this with my Uber cash credit I get from my AMEX
             | Gold card. The prices are always higher.
        
             | c420 wrote:
             | Here's a story today about this practice:
             | 
             | Bay Area traveler says Uber gift cards boosted fare
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43751945
        
             | OptionOfT wrote:
             | https://www.nysun.com/article/dynamic-pricing-at-major-
             | groce...
             | 
             | The less they know about you the better. Good reason to not
             | have Gift Cards inside of the applications.
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | Who is Visa / MC / AMEX going to side with? The company that
           | gets them hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue every
           | year or a random account holder? It doesn't really matter who
           | is right or wrong.
        
             | dghlsakjg wrote:
             | If it becomes a systemic problem, the CC companies will
             | absolutely drop merchants or entire industries.
             | 
             | CC companies, especially in the states, almost always favor
             | the cardholder over the merchant.
        
               | paxys wrote:
               | For individual chargebacks and small scammy merchants,
               | sure. Uber meanwhile processes $40 _billion_ worth of
               | transactions a year. There is zero chance they are facing
               | any kind of  "discipline" from credit card operators. At
               | that volume they write their own terms.
        
               | HenryBemis wrote:
               | CC companies have little choice. Laws in EU give
               | right/priority to the customer, and the burden of proof
               | to the company. Now, imagine pissing 1 million Europeans,
               | and them all going to their banks and file a complaint.
               | And Uber (or any other vendor) be hit by 1 million claims
               | that they have to fight for one-at-a-time.
        
         | bz_bz_bz wrote:
         | Earlier this month Uber sent me an email that they "discovered
         | that [I was] charged for an additional period of Uber One
         | membership after [I] contacted customer support. This was
         | because [my] scheduled payment was already in process before
         | [my] cancellation request was received." I knew they must have
         | gotten in trouble with a regulator because the incident they're
         | referring to was 2+ years ago.
         | 
         | How did they rectify this issue they "discovered"? They gave me
         | Uber credit...
        
         | neom wrote:
         | Interesting (in Canada), if my order is wrong I just click the
         | item that is wrong and the chatbot automatically refunds me
         | either on my card or via a credit, and often gives me an extra
         | $5 in credit for my trouble, wonder what account flag I have
         | you don't.
        
           | gU9x3u8XmQNG wrote:
           | In my experience, in Australia; you don't get to select the
           | item that was wrong, and simply get a refund on the cheapest
           | item.
           | 
           | Seems the vendors are catching on, with orders often
           | dramatically wrong without any consequence. This is pure
           | speculation, however.
           | 
           | I also found vendors would often substitute items out of
           | stock with those of a lesser value, but write a semi-cute
           | message on it. Nothing like buying some fancy cola, only to
           | get a can of coke and a love letter..
           | 
           | Endless chatbot and help option loops; I gave up, and refuse
           | to use their services - though use was rare anyway.
        
             | neom wrote:
             | I've never had any of these problems at all with uber eats,
             | probably part of why I use it so often. I click "help with
             | a past order" and the first option I get is "my order was
             | wrong" if I click it, it presents me with my order and
             | everything I paid for and asks me what to pick that is
             | wrong, it then asks for a photo if it's a larger $ item
             | (unless it's missing) and then it asks me if I want a
             | refund via card or credit, and as I mentioned, it typically
             | gives me a credit for the trouble.
             | 
             | Super interesting to me we have such different experiences.
             | Maybe because I have UberOne?
        
         | nradov wrote:
         | I still can't fathom why so many customers voluntarily subject
         | themselves to abuse by food delivery services. Overpay for
         | cold, late food (which the driver might have already sampled).
         | I mean I can sort of understand the use case for customers who
         | are stuck at home due to illness or something. But I've seen
         | plenty of young people in good health waste scarce funds on
         | UberEats and similar services. Why?
         | 
         | When I want take-out food I just call the restaurant to order,
         | then get in my car (or on my bike) and pick it up myself.
        
           | tuesdaynight wrote:
           | The last part is the answer for your question: they just
           | don't want to get in their car if they can pay someone else
           | to do that job for them. It's the same reason people pay for
           | cleaning services.
        
       | jonathanlydall wrote:
       | UberOne is why I almost never use UberEats any more and instead
       | use a local competitor.
       | 
       | Shortly after it was introduced it seemed every order of mine
       | would get surprise delayed after pick up as the driver would have
       | to first drop off a different order at >90deg different direction
       | from me, no doubt for the user who would get priority for being
       | on UberOne.
       | 
       | I don't order food often enough to justify a subscription, so I
       | just switched to Mr D(elivery), a local South African company
       | where the delivery time is at least almost always consistent. I
       | also feel a bit better about less of the money leaving the
       | country.
        
       | NoTeslaThrow wrote:
       | I can't express how angry it makes me that I only had access to
       | taxis for a couple years in the city before they were all pushed
       | out and rates were jacked, screwing both the customer and the
       | driver providing the value. It will take decades to reverse this
       | course even if everyone has decent intentions, and shareholders
       | rarely do.
        
         | vjvjvjvjghv wrote:
         | The taxi companies were dumb though. They should have embraced
         | the internet and apps. I am still not sure how to even call a
         | taxi in my town.
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | _They should have embraced the internet and apps._
           | 
           | In some cities, they did, even before Uber existed.
           | 
           | But they still had to pay their drivers a living wage. Uber
           | didn't, and people went with the cheaper fares.
           | 
           | Then there were no more taxis, and all the taxi drivers were
           | making a third the money driving for Uber.
        
           | fuomag9 wrote:
           | Here in Italy I don't know if I hate more uber or the taxi
           | drivers themselves. Most cities do not have uber because of
           | them striking and paralyzing cities. Most taxi drivers will
           | try to scam you if you are a tourist, will not take credit
           | cards and will under-declare profits to avoid paying taxes.
           | Taxi licenses are limited in number and re-sold between taxi
           | drivers and new potential buyers. No new licenses are emitted
           | because the government is scared of them.
           | 
           | The situation is a complete mess here :/
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | But they paid the bribe!
       | 
       | "CEO donors who gave $1 million include Sam Altman, head of
       | OpenAI; Tim Cook, head of Apple; and Dara Khosrowshahi, head of
       | Uber."[1]
       | 
       | [1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/rich-people-and-
       | corp...
        
       | PicassoCTs wrote:
       | I know, its veering into court-politics- but is the FTC now
       | "selectively active" as in, if the king deems your company out of
       | favor for lack of tributes, it becomes active?
        
       | sailfast wrote:
       | Now please investigate their teaser rates to get you to choose
       | Uber as a transport option when they know your driver is vapor
       | and/or will cancel then charge 3x congestion pricing on the next
       | refresh when it's too late to pick another option. Infuriating
       | practices, and the drivers seem to keep getting screwed on the
       | gigs.
        
       | YVoyiatzis wrote:
       | I've long suspected these shady practices, and I'm relieved
       | they're finally being exposed. Utilities and others aren't far
       | behind, sending invoices no reasonable person wouldn't question.
       | 
       | Since 2019, I've relied on ride-shares and delivery services,
       | consistently questioning their fee structures. During this time,
       | I've spent an unconscionable amount on Uber and Uber Eats alone.
       | 
       | A big shame both to the ones running the show and the ones who
       | trained them to think this is acceptable.
        
         | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
         | If you've regularly patronized these services isn't it you
         | who's trained them to think it's acceptable?
        
       | ethn wrote:
       | A welcomed development in these consumer subscription services.
        
       | bilekas wrote:
       | > When customers try to cancel, Uber makes it extremely
       | difficult. Users can be forced to navigate as many as 23 screens
       | and take as many as 32 actions to cancel
       | 
       | Funny enough I had to take an uber today but it was taking too
       | long so I wanted to cancel the request and call a taxi, I was
       | asked 4 times if I wanted to really cancel, small things like
       | that really do just inflict a little bit of pressure it's a
       | horrible practice. The fact that a company comes up with these
       | dark patterns to squeeze every cent from you says everything you
       | need to know about them.
        
       | rubiquity wrote:
       | Uber is worth a case study in absolutely horrendous customer
       | service and borderline theft. I haven't used them since they
       | stole $150 from me for an UberEats order I was 10 minutes late to
       | pickup in a one hour window, stating that the pickup windows are
       | firm even for non-perishable goods and failure to show up during
       | the window is a forfeit without refund. They even fought my
       | credit card dispute on the matter. Vile company.
        
       | superdude12 wrote:
       | Another dark pattern is consistently underestimating the time to
       | be picked up by a driver. The estimate is always something like 3
       | minutes, but often the wait time is more like 7 minutes.
       | 
       | Same for Uber Eats. They estimate 25 minutes for a drop off, but
       | it's often more like 45 minutes.
        
       | dcliu wrote:
       | Glad to see this happen. As described in the article, I recently
       | got signed up and charged for Uber One, despite having opened the
       | app in weeks.
        
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