[HN Gopher] First hormone-free male birth control pill enters hu...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       First hormone-free male birth control pill enters human trials
        
       Author : Teever
       Score  : 121 points
       Date   : 2025-04-20 17:54 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (scitechdaily.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (scitechdaily.com)
        
       | gnabgib wrote:
       | Paper https://www.nature.com/articles/s43856-025-00752-7
       | (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43585950)
        
       | panny wrote:
       | I can't wait until this stuff hits the water supply /s
        
         | mr90210 wrote:
         | I got the /s
         | 
         | Europe is struggling with low birth rates. They wouldn't do it
         | here, as is right now it's already a calamity.
        
           | Mountain_Skies wrote:
           | What would that look like? Women complain it's unfair they
           | have to be responsible for birth control in relationships.
           | Now there's the ability for men to shoulder the
           | responsibility too. Will voters, male and female, be ok with
           | not taking the egalitarian path? Obviously governments are
           | concerned about falling birthrates but they already have
           | shown a willingness to continue policies that get them re-
           | elected, even at the expense of birthrates.
        
             | jocaal wrote:
             | I hope you replied to the wrong comment, I don't think
             | women complaining about paying for birth control is a valid
             | reason for sterilizing a population. Also condoms exist.
        
               | Mountain_Skies wrote:
               | While there are complaints about cost depending on
               | location, most of the complains are about the side
               | effects of the pill, which women endure and men don't.
        
               | jocaal wrote:
               | Ok, I'll just ignore the rest of the context of this
               | thread.
               | 
               | > the side effects of the pill, which women endure and
               | men don't.
               | 
               | women are free to choose to not take the pill or take it
               | and accept the consequences. Also, there are many
               | alternatives to the pill.
               | 
               | Either way, I don't understand what point you are trying
               | to make. You are just making random statements and
               | ignoring the context of the discussion.
        
               | giantg2 wrote:
               | "women are free to choose to not take the pill or take it
               | and accept the consequences. Also, there are many
               | alternatives to the pill."
               | 
               | Yes, but some people want all the benefits with none of
               | the side effects. Of course there is no perfect solution.
        
               | jocaal wrote:
               | > Yes, but some people want all the benefits with none of
               | the side effects
               | 
               | Life is about making tradeoffs. There is no such thing as
               | a free lunch, except while you are still a child.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _Life is about making tradeoffs_
               | 
               | Progress is about eliminating them. We don't need to
               | trade off seafaring against scurvy, for example.
        
               | giantg2 wrote:
               | I would highly doubt this pill will eliminate tradeoffs.
               | I'm sure the studies will find tradeoffs (side effects)
               | just like virtually all medications.
        
               | JumpCrisscross wrote:
               | > _would highly doubt this pill will eliminate tradeoffs_
               | 
               | I would, too. But it increases the pool of options, which
               | means that for some people it really is a win-win. Get
               | the same as you're getting now, but with fewer (or less
               | meaningful to you) side effects.
        
       | steele wrote:
       | TL;DR: red pill
        
       | genter wrote:
       | 99% effective. So if you have sex once a day, you'll only produce
       | 3 kids a year.
        
         | TheCoelacanth wrote:
         | Birth control effectiveness is typically reported for one year
         | of use, so 100 years of use would produce 1 pregnancy on
         | average
        
           | photochemsyn wrote:
           | Or, one year of use by 100 men would result in an average of
           | one partner pregnancy per year for this group.
        
         | Justin_K wrote:
         | Female birth control states the same, as nothing is ever 100%
        
           | doubled112 wrote:
           | Sometimes life, uhh, finds a way.
           | 
           | But yes, if they said something is 100% effective and it
           | wasn't, I would imagine they would be sued into bankruptcy
           | pretty fast.
           | 
           | How much would an accidental child cost these days?
        
           | blahaj wrote:
           | With the female contraceptive pill 0.3% of women get pregnant
           | within a year if taken perfectly (which is rarely the case,
           | but the figure here is also from lab conditions). This drug
           | leads to 1% pregnancies in 4 weaks, which is much worse.
           | 
           | That said this is still great news especially as the condom
           | is also much less safe then the female contraceptive pill.
        
             | SoftTalker wrote:
             | Condoms are extremely effective also, if used perfectly,
             | which is rarely the case. Statistics should be based on
             | real-world experience not theoretical best case.
        
               | blahaj wrote:
               | Wikipedia gives a 2% pregnancy rate for condoms within
               | one year with perfect use which is much worse than 0.3%.
               | 
               | We only have the numbers for the lab environment with I
               | assume perfect use for this new drug, so we can only
               | compare perfect use.
        
               | patapong wrote:
               | I've always been intrigued by where those 2% come from,
               | since condoms are a physical barrier... Teleporting
               | sperm?
        
               | Maxatar wrote:
               | The statistics show that the 2% comes from
               | breakage/slippage, micropores and manufacturing defects:
               | 
               | https://www.contraceptionjournal.org/article/S0010-7824(0
               | 4)0...
        
               | loeg wrote:
               | It's worth measuring both ideal and real world use, IMO.
        
               | Maxatar wrote:
               | The statistics are based on real world experience rather
               | than theoretical best case. Not to pick on you but really
               | surprised to hear people confidently express so much
               | misinformation on this topic when it's not even
               | particularly hard to find information on it:
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control
               | _me...
        
         | kibwen wrote:
         | As someone who's currently producing 365.25 kids a year, I'll
         | take it.
        
         | blahaj wrote:
         | > In male mice, the drug caused infertility and was 99%
         | effective in preventing pregnancies within four weeks of use.
         | 
         | I don't know if they mean 99% reduction compared to normal or
         | 99% of mice did not cause a pregnancy. Either way this does not
         | mean that every intercourse has a 1% chance of causing a
         | pregnancy. Also you are assuming an unconditional probability.
         | It could very well be a conditional probability. It might
         | completely work for 99% that do not cause any pregnancies at
         | all and not work for 1% that cause pregnancies as without the
         | drug.
         | 
         | Anyway I am looking forward to getting the perl index for
         | humans from clinical trials.
         | 
         | Edit: fixed wrong wording
        
         | astura wrote:
         | That's not how birth control effectiveness is measured. It's
         | not measured per act of intercourse.
         | 
         | Birth control effectiveness is measured by calculating the
         | number of pregnancies per 100 women using a specific method for
         | a full calendar year.
         | 
         | https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/family-plan...
         | 
         | >Effectiveness of methods is measured by the number of
         | pregnancies per 100 women using the method per year.
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | Is that adjusted for frequency of intercourse? Can't really
           | compare a woman who has sex 10 times a year to one who's
           | having sex 20 times a month.
        
             | Smithalicious wrote:
             | I assume the "per 100 women" part suffices to regress
             | towards the mean
        
         | znpy wrote:
         | you really have to take that pill as soon as it enters the
         | market (/s)
        
       | johnisgood wrote:
       | We had alpha-blockers for a long time now, which prevents
       | ejaculation but not orgasm; read: it can completely block the
       | emission phase of ejaculation, while orgasmic function is
       | retained.
       | 
       | Example: Silodosin.
       | 
       | You need to experiment with it. Sensitive clinical trials
       | measured rates as high as 90-99%.
       | 
       | It is entirely non-hormonal. It does not affect libido (rarely),
       | while hormonal male contraceptives do, and it is reversible upon
       | cessation, without any delay, unlike hormonal male
       | contraceptives.
        
         | steanne wrote:
         | it's been a few decades, but i don't recall sperm in seminal
         | fluids being entirely limited to the grand finale, only mostly.
        
           | johnisgood wrote:
           | Fair, and it needs clarification to avoid conflating pre-
           | ejaculate, seminal plasma, and sperm emission.
           | 
           | It may be confusing, so to clarify: "seminal fluids" is a
           | term typically used to refer to the fluid released during
           | ejaculation, not throughout the arousal phase. The idea that
           | sperm would be in the mix before the emission phase goes
           | against standard reproductive physiology.
           | 
           | Sperm are only actively introduced into seminal fluid during
           | the emission phase of ejaculation; the so-called "grand
           | finale." :D. Before that, in the arousal phase, the fluids
           | released (like pre-ejaculate) typically contain no sperm
           | unless there's residual contamination from a previous
           | ejaculation.
        
             | yard2010 wrote:
             | It's funny that residual contamination, in the right
             | context, might lead to the world's best magic - life.
        
               | johnisgood wrote:
               | I know, especially if you think about it! It is indeed
               | "magic", to me, too. :)
               | 
               | (And FWIW, if one might wonder: thankfully this
               | aforementioned "residual contamination" poses no health
               | risk or birth defects.)
        
           | loeg wrote:
           | Sperm is virtually entirely absent from pre-ejaculation
           | fluids if you've peed since the last time you ejaculated.
           | Almost all of the "sperm can be in pre-ejaculate" effect is
           | from having sex a second time in a row without anything
           | flushing out the tubes.
        
         | BurningFrog wrote:
         | If it's never ejaculated, what happens to the fluid?
        
           | johnisgood wrote:
           | The body has several well-regulated mechanisms for handling
           | it.
           | 
           | If semen isn't ejaculated, the body reabsorbs the sperm in
           | the epididymis and recycles the cellular material. Seminal
           | fluids, which are produced during arousal, are either
           | reabsorbed or, in cases like retrograde ejaculation (e.g.,
           | with alpha-blockers), pass into the bladder and are later
           | urinated out. The system self-regulates; there's no harmful
           | buildup to worry about. :)
           | 
           | So, TL;DR: You will just urinate it out in our case.
        
           | chneu wrote:
           | What do you think happens with a vasectomy? It gets
           | reabsorbed.
        
             | aaronbrethorst wrote:
             | Vasectomies don't prevent ejaculation. The semen is just
             | sperm-free (after a brief period of time).
        
         | Mountain_Skies wrote:
         | Take it a step further into 'Demolition Man' territory to get
         | the orgasm without any physical contact. Certainly would be
         | good for reducing STDs though no doubt would come with a whole
         | range of societal impacts.
        
           | johnisgood wrote:
           | In all honesty, orgasm without physical contact is entirely
           | possible already (mental orgasm / psychological stimulation),
           | but it is not common and not easy.
           | 
           | Fantasy, meditation, hypnosis, Kegel exercises... They could
           | lead to orgasms and sometimes even ejaculation (which would
           | be bad in this case).
           | 
           | Some medications rarely may cause spontaneous orgasms, even,
           | without physical contact, arousal or stimulation.
        
           | giantg2 wrote:
           | We're basically there with VR porn and ever more realistic
           | toys.
        
             | johnisgood wrote:
             | Not parent but made a comment to parent, and damn,
             | completely forgot about that! You are right.
        
         | AstralStorm wrote:
         | Closer to 90%, and generally the side effects are a bit
         | annoying too. Circulatory ones. Sometimes even to floppy. (Like
         | 1% dosage dependent)
         | 
         | Plus the thing does not stop the drip so you do have to pull
         | out sooner rather than later or else. It does _not_ stop sperm
         | production.
         | 
         | Also dry ones tend to result. They're sometimes uncomfortable.
         | 
         | Tamsulosin is I believe the modern one but all of them are for
         | long term. Probably least side effects.
         | 
         | Otherwise if taken as a single dose fresh, side effects like
         | orthostatic hypotension are vastly increased.
        
           | johnisgood wrote:
           | Circulatory side effects like dizziness or orthostatic
           | hypotension do occur, though they tend to be mild and dose-
           | dependent.
           | 
           | You're right that it doesn't stop sperm production, just
           | emission. As for "the drip"; that's pre-ejaculate, which
           | doesn't contain sperm inherently, but can pick up residual
           | sperm in the urethra from a prior ejaculation.
           | 
           | And that's true, anejaculatory orgasms can feel strange or
           | less satisfying for some, but it is not universal.
           | 
           | > Otherwise if taken as a single dose fresh, side effects
           | like orthostatic hypotension are vastly increased.
           | 
           | That is true.
           | 
           | Edit: I / We will have to research the side-effect profile
           | and mechanisms of the mentioned pill (in the submission). I
           | have not yet done so. They mention no side-effects but it
           | might be too early to tell.
        
             | cstrahan wrote:
             | > You're right that it doesn't stop sperm production, just
             | emission. As for "the drip"; that's pre-ejaculate, which
             | doesn't contain sperm inherently, but can pick up residual
             | sperm in the urethra from a prior ejaculation.
             | 
             | I'd like to stress that point a bit.
             | 
             | I had a vasectomy about a year ago, and being the weirdo
             | that I am, I figured I'd see how much sperm remained in my
             | ejaculate (and for how long) after the procedure.
             | 
             | I waited maybe two or three days after the procedure, and
             | then for the next three days, I'd collect three samples per
             | day and take a look under my microscope. In the first four
             | or five samples, the swimmers were swimming _hard_. Told my
             | brother (who had been trying for a kid for a couple years,
             | and had observed his own samples trying correlate diet and
             | other factors to improved motility) about the straight
             | laser beams I was seeing in the scope -- he nearly had a
             | fit when I described how long it took them to go from one
             | side of the slide to the other under the given
             | magnification.
             | 
             | It was the ninth sample when there were very few observable
             | sperm, and what remained looked kinda drunk and
             | unmotivated.
             | 
             | All of that to say: if you're going to get a vasectomy,
             | when your doctor tells you to abstain from condom-
             | less/birthcontrol-less sex until you come back for a sperm
             | count, take that seriously. It's amazing how motile they
             | are even when kinda old, and also amazing how many hang
             | around downstream of the vas deferens after many
             | ejaculations. And, while rare, sometimes the vas deferens
             | do manage to reconnect.
             | 
             | And a bonus tip along these lines: testosterone
             | replacement, even without hCG, is not a reliable form of
             | birth control. I'm on (and was on) TRT, without hCG, and
             | the concentration of sperm under the scope looked higher
             | than any YouTube video I could find at the same
             | magnification (meanwhile my bro is taking silly amounts of
             | hCG and struggling). I hear a lot of people joke about TRT
             | having the beneficial side effect of infertility, but
             | that's far from a certainty.
        
               | johnisgood wrote:
               | Thank you for sharing this!
        
               | alabastervlog wrote:
               | Relatedly, this is also why the "failure" rate for
               | vasectomy isn't vanishingly close to 0%: it's almost all
               | dudes having unprotected sex in the first month or so
               | after the procedure.
               | 
               | Spontaneous reconnection happens but is extremely rare.
               | If you can follow the doctor's orders for a few weeks,
               | vasectomy's failure rate may as well be 0%.
        
             | johnisgood wrote:
             | > Both mice and non-human primates fully regained fertility
             | after stopping the drug. Mice regained fertility within six
             | weeks, and non-human primates fully recovered their sperm
             | count in 10-15 weeks.
             | 
             | Hard pass on messing with my fertility like that, too, TBH.
        
         | loeg wrote:
         | > clinical trials measured rates as high as 90-99%.
         | 
         | This is in the same range as, like, pulling out, for what it's
         | worth.
        
           | __turbobrew__ wrote:
           | Yea similar with tracking ovulation dates. Seems like pretty
           | bad EV for messing with my nervous system.
        
           | johnisgood wrote:
           | The similarity is not the same.
           | 
           | If no semen is emitted, the chance of pregnancy is null (more
           | about it in my other comments).
           | 
           | Plus 90-99% suppression of ejaculation has been recorded and
           | suggested that it has a potentially high contraceptive
           | efficacy, so that is way better than withdrawal.
           | 
           | Experiment, maybe it affects you in a way that you get 99%,
           | which would make it a very efficient hormone-free male birth
           | control pill.
           | 
           | Side-note: personally I prefer IUDs, and/or a medication that
           | has been extensively studied, so this pill can wait.
        
             | loeg wrote:
             | The "as typically used" quoted figure for pulling out
             | ("withdrawal") is 80% success, but the ideal use figure is
             | 96-98%. If you know a little bit about yourself and also
             | aren't going back to back without peeing, you can do a lot
             | better than the 80% figure. (Also yeah, it's amusing that
             | both of these figures are more or less identical to male
             | condoms.)
             | 
             | (Meta-comment: probably best to keep everything in
             | "success" percentage figures for direct comparison, instead
             | of switching to failure percentages for some figures.)
        
               | johnisgood wrote:
               | I edited my comment.
        
           | wonderwonder wrote:
           | I have always been amazed at how effective the pull out
           | method was. I had sex for years with my wife and always
           | pulled out. 2x a week for probably 10 years. After we decided
           | to have a kid, she was pregnant in a month.
           | 
           | Really incredible how effective such a simple solution is
        
         | throwaway743 wrote:
         | Retrograde ejaculation is a weird thing to experience. It's the
         | physical manifestation of the sound of a slide whistle both
         | ways.
         | 
         | Alpha blockers also give one hell of a stuffy nose. Worst sleep
         | ever after taking one.
        
         | locusofself wrote:
         | Preventing ejaculation sounds awful.
        
           | ignoramous wrote:
           | As compared to ... unplanned pregnancy?
        
             | Vilian wrote:
             | Not having sex is a great birth control yes, but birth
             | control is for sex to be safe not to remove it entirety
        
       | qwuenebj wrote:
       | Birth control is unreliable, we need universal access to
       | abortion! It is basic human right!
        
         | anonym29 wrote:
         | Male abortion rights? As in the man should be allowed to abort
         | a fetus developing from an egg that was unambiguously
         | fertilized by him?
         | 
         | Or am I misunderstanding what you're proposing with
         | "universal"?
        
           | BriggyDwiggs42 wrote:
           | In a better world it would be sensible to allow the guy to
           | split without child support and so on if he didn't want the
           | child, but in the real world that would end up hurting a lot
           | of people and birthing lots of kids into poverty. Whether you
           | think that's worth it is up to you.
           | 
           | Abortion as a right is thinking of abortion as a medical
           | procedure that people have the right to access. Universal
           | access, but men don't tend to utilize it.
           | 
           | It really is an important thing to be able to manage
           | pregnancy. Pregnancy is exceptionally brutal on the body and
           | causes innumerable permanent changes. I think it makes sense
           | as an emergency fallback when other preventative methods
           | fail.
        
             | ajsnigrutin wrote:
             | Considering we allow women to have abortions for arbitrary
             | reasons, which include financial and any other non-medical,
             | a paper abortion for men would make things a lot more
             | equal.
        
         | JackSlateur wrote:
         | You are free to sterilize yourself. No need to harm other, just
         | stand up for your believes.
        
           | BriggyDwiggs42 wrote:
           | Half of abortions take place before 6 weeks when the fetus
           | basically doesn't have a brain. There really isn't another
           | there to be harmed man.
        
       | hwpythonner wrote:
       | Do their stats include the guy who forgets to take it every third
       | day, or is that part of the 1%?
        
         | Loughla wrote:
         | Like Richard Hammond said, if I was a woman, I'd be pregnant a
         | lot.
         | 
         | I'm terrible at remembering to take pills. Maybe it's because
         | they're pretty low stakes?
        
           | NegativeK wrote:
           | It's not hard to set up nearly fault proof routines and
           | reminders.
           | 
           | For example, I have a pill container for the days of the
           | week. Pills go directly into my pocket and don't come out
           | unless they're going in my mouth (almost always during
           | breakfast.) The pocket to mouth routine makes sure I don't
           | set them down somewhere and the pill box gives proof later
           | that I took them.
        
         | badgersnake wrote:
         | This is why it won't succeed. The person getting pregnant is
         | going to want some proof that the contraception is being used
         | properly. And that means something that they can see or
         | something that they do themselves.
        
           | Cthulhu_ wrote:
           | Exactly. I'm confident women worry a lot more about getting
           | pregnant than men worry about getting someone pregnant.
        
             | crazygringo wrote:
             | You don't think men worry about having a kid with someone
             | they don't want to, being responsible for 18 years of child
             | support, making hard decisions about whether they want to
             | be involved in the kid's life, etc.?
             | 
             | Men are terrified of getting someone pregnant. At least
             | women have a choice as to what to do about it. If they
             | don't want to keep it, they don't, assuming the law permits
             | it or the law is easy to get around. Men don't _ever_ have
             | that choice.
        
         | patall wrote:
         | It's a mouse and NHP (non-human primate) study
        
         | askonomm wrote:
         | I know plenty women who also forget to take it every day.
        
       | neuroelectron wrote:
       | Coming to a tap water near you.
        
       | 1024core wrote:
       | > Both mice and non-human primates fully regained fertility after
       | stopping the drug. Mice regained fertility within six weeks, and
       | non-human primates fully recovered their sperm count in 10-15
       | weeks.
       | 
       | Great recurring source of revenue for the drug company!
       | 
       | Though I'm more interested in feral animals like dogs. It looks
       | like this drug may work on dogs too? If so, it would be a huge
       | boon for cities and villages in India.
        
         | Someone1234 wrote:
         | Why would Cities and Villages in India want a reversible dog
         | contraceptive? They want a cheap, easily deployable, indefinite
         | one.
        
           | 1024core wrote:
           | I'm saying that a dog contraceptive is what those places
           | need. That fact that it's reversible is a downside.
        
         | Retric wrote:
         | Seems like neutering them would be cheaper and there's no risk
         | of the dogs missing a drug cycle.
        
         | astura wrote:
         | Wtf? This is ridiculous. Who the fuck is going to be giving
         | feral dogs a pill everyday? And why would you want a reversible
         | contraceptive for feral dogs? You want a one-and-done
         | irreversible one, which neutering is.
        
           | 1024core wrote:
           | Neutering is not possible in villages. You'd be hard pressed
           | to find a vet anywhere nearby.
        
       | treis wrote:
       | This is one of the annoying things about life. Testosterone
       | effectively already does this and is quite safe. It's just that
       | society is not comfortable with men taking steroids for no
       | particularly good reason.
        
         | margalabargala wrote:
         | > is quite safe
         | 
         | Taking outside sources of testosterone permanently alters your
         | body's ability to make testosterone naturally, to the extent
         | that many people who previously took steroids find they have be
         | on testosterone therapy for _the rest of their lives_.
         | 
         | I wouldn't call "creating a lifelong requirement to take
         | artificial hormones in order to function at your previous
         | baseline" qualifying as "no particularly good reason".
        
           | treis wrote:
           | Most people who go on Testosterone can go off it just fine.
           | Here's a random study:
           | 
           | >Ever since that study, testosterone has undergone extensive
           | clinical trials as a hormonal method of male contraception
           | and many have found testosterone to be efficacious,
           | reversible and safe with minimal short-term side effects
           | 
           | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6305868/
           | 
           | It's not super reliable but it's also easily testable if it's
           | working or not.
        
             | AstralStorm wrote:
             | It also causes temporary shrinkage in the high overdose
             | needed for any reliability, as opposed to normal dosage.
        
             | margalabargala wrote:
             | To be clear, the snippet you quoted is your study
             | summarizing the claims of other studies which are among the
             | cohort analyzed.
             | 
             | Let's quote the short, succinct conclusion of the study you
             | picked:
             | 
             | > Testosterone therapy is a contraceptive, albeit a poor
             | one. Men of reproductive age with low testosterone should
             | be counseled on the adverse effects of TRT on fertility.
             | Obtaining a semen analysis and possible cryopreservation of
             | sperm should be offered if TRT is prescribed to men
             | interested in preserving fertility. Options such as
             | clomiphene citrate and hCG along with a referral to a
             | reproductive urologist should be considered to naturally
             | increase testosterone levels in those men with low
             | testosterone who want to avoid TRT.
             | 
             | Whether a contraceptive that is sufficiently irreversible
             | that men using it are advised to freeze sperm if they ever
             | want kids should be considered "reversible" is left as an
             | exercise to the reader.
        
               | treis wrote:
               | You're misunderstanding what they're saying here. They
               | are saying TRT will have an impact on fertility while
               | they are on TRT. The prospects for when they go off TRT
               | are fine:
               | 
               | >If a patient currently desires fertility, TRT should be
               | avoided or discontinued immediately. A semen analyses
               | should be performed if the patient has discontinued TRT.
               | Azoospermia or severe oligospermia may be seen in these
               | patients, but most men should return to baseline semen
               | analyses in 6 to 9 months after cessation of TRT
               | [13,14,15]. A 2006 integrated analysis showed that 90% of
               | patients were expected to return to baseline sperm
               | concentration values 12 months after cessation of
               | treatment and 100% after 24 months [50].
        
           | SoftTalker wrote:
           | Pharma companies would think that is a _great_ reason.
        
         | meroes wrote:
         | According to Sapolsky, testosterone amplifies current
         | behaviors. If you're already aggressive, you become more. If
         | you're already X, it amplifies. Just because it's safe doesn't
         | mean people want to be in affected states permanently.
        
           | johnisgood wrote:
           | I agree, and not even just that, it is associated with hair
           | loss, among many other things. In fact, psychiatric
           | medications are less effective (sometimes completely) if your
           | T is high.
        
           | treis wrote:
           | Roid rage is probably a myth. The causation likely goes the
           | other way. Meaning aggressive people are more likely to use
           | steroids than steroids are causing them to be aggressive:
           | 
           | https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/the-myth-of-roid-
           | rag...
        
             | cstrahan wrote:
             | While I disagree with your claim that steroids are a viable
             | form of birth control, I do agree a bit with this, though
             | not for the stated reason.
             | 
             | What many people don't realize (probably in large part
             | because they see testosterone and estrogen as diametrically
             | opposed things) is that testosterone levels impacts
             | estrogen levels. Why? Because the body produces estrogen
             | through the aromitization of testosterone. Increasing
             | testosterone will increase estrogen.
             | 
             | A common struggle for those on TRT (both those at true
             | replacement levels, as well as those taking
             | supraphysiological doses) is elevated estrogen. I know that
             | when my estrogen levels have gone too high, I become more
             | neurotic than I usually am.
             | 
             | If you couple increased neuroticism with an elevated sense
             | of dominance (especially at bodybuilding doses), and top
             | that off with a general lack of poor management of one's
             | emotions (which I suspect is common amongst bodybuilders),
             | what you likely get is a very volatile person. Not because
             | of testosterone, but because of the elevated estrogen and
             | their existing psychological issues.
        
         | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
         | https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6305868/
         | 
         | "Testosterone as a contraceptive can suppress spermatogenesis
         | and lead to azoospermia in 65% of normospermic men within 4
         | months of use"
         | 
         | Does this sound like a convenient and effective contraceptive?
         | Where are you really coming from with this statement?
        
           | treis wrote:
           | This is what I mean. Why is everyone so weird about it? It's
           | hormonal birth control for men. Even if it works for only 65%
           | of them it's better than nothing since it can be tested to
           | see if it's working easily.
        
         | loeg wrote:
         | Supraphysiological doses of testosterone are not considered
         | safe, and frequent (weekly+) intramuscular injections are not
         | convenient.
        
         | cstrahan wrote:
         | Woah, now. You are dangerously mistaken here.
         | 
         | As I wrote over in:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43746406
         | 
         | I'm on TRT, without hCG. I went and had a vasectomy a year ago.
         | Because I'm weird and infinitely curious, two or three days
         | after the procedure, I took three samples per day, and looked
         | at each under the microscope. What I saw put to shame just
         | about any video I could find online of a "good" sperm sample.
         | Straight laser beams, zipping from one side of the slide to the
         | other. If you were to scale Micheal Phelps down to these
         | swimmers, he'd stand no chance. And the concentration was
         | ridiculous, too. And this all 2-5 day old (at least) sperm!
         | 
         | TRT is not a reliable form of birth control.
        
       | anonym29 wrote:
       | We didn't have this covered with Magic: The Gathering, LARPing,
       | cryptocurrency speculation, and Funko-pop collections already? /s
        
         | ohgr wrote:
         | MtG is not effective. Married an MtG player and had 3 kids.
        
           | anonym29 wrote:
           | For best results, I believe you're supposed to combine all of
           | the above. Like condoms, they don't always work perfectly.
        
           | sph wrote:
           | Imagine if you never had played MtG.
        
           | DoctorOW wrote:
           | I'm following your path, my fiancee is obsessed. No crypto
           | speculation thank god
        
       | j_timberlake wrote:
       | I'm sure it's illegal for a woman to secretly swap out her
       | boyfriend's medicine for a placebo, but good luck proving it
       | happened in court.
        
         | newcool1230 wrote:
         | ?
        
           | j_timberlake wrote:
           | Women could baby-trap their boyfriend into marriage by
           | swapping out his pills for placebo, then blame the pregnancy
           | on the pills not working.
           | 
           | Most women would never do this, but a few definitely would.
        
             | AstralStorm wrote:
             | It's way easier to do that for her own pills. You still
             | want the condom to be more certain...
        
               | znpy wrote:
               | You'd likely want condoms anyway, unless you are in a
               | stable long-term relationship with somebody highly
               | trustworthy.
               | 
               | birth-control pills (male or female) are powerless
               | against sexually-transmissible diseases.
        
             | a_t48 wrote:
             | And men with a pregnancy fetish can do the same. What's
             | your point?
        
               | j_timberlake wrote:
               | Not every discussion is about making a point.
        
             | rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote:
             | So why are you making it a gender politics issue if it
             | isn't even a common enough behavior among women
        
               | j_timberlake wrote:
               | You guys are reading from my comment some sort of
               | aggressive anti-pill stance that isn't there. I'm just
               | predicting something that will happen, because predicting
               | the future and seeing if reality later plays out that way
               | is fun.
        
           | exe34 wrote:
           | he's referring to sperm jacking.
        
         | BriggyDwiggs42 wrote:
         | You realize that without the pill it's drastically easier to
         | baby trap right?
        
         | ajsnigrutin wrote:
         | This would make it a lot harder... they can already do that
         | with their own pills, after this, they would have to find an
         | exact match for the men's pills and somehow replace them
         | without the guy noticing, which would be realatively harder.
        
       | w10-1 wrote:
       | RARa pathway operates in cell development eg of blood cells and
       | in apoptosis, implicated in some cancers.
       | 
       | Long-term safety seems doubtful. Offspring could be affected. In
       | a rational world there would be no volunteers for the trials.
        
         | patall wrote:
         | Could also positively affect offspring if spermatogenesis is
         | blocked at the right step, stopping the gamete progenitors from
         | accumulating somatic mutation. The majority of rare genetic
         | diseases arising from de-novo mutations has its origin in the
         | fathers gamete formation (with increasing risk (i.e
         | accumulation of mutations) at older paternal age). Maybe this
         | could block/slow down this process (i.e cell division) and in
         | 20 years all males that still may want to have kids will take a
         | RARa blocker.
        
       | khazhoux wrote:
       | Whoever invents a drug to eliminate male refractory period, will
       | make all the money. _All of it_.
        
         | vachina wrote:
         | This is like removing the rev limiter on your engine. Your
         | engine can now go beyond redline, but not for long because it
         | melted itself.
        
           | MarcelOlsz wrote:
           | Offset it with a restrictor plate.
        
             | m000 wrote:
             | restrictor + microtransactions -> profit!
             | 
             | "Insert coin to continue"
        
           | giantg2 wrote:
           | Meh, there are people with low to no refactory period already
           | and they don't seem to have any real issues.
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | Cabergoline. Lowers prolactin which peaks after ejaculation.
         | Can reduce or eliminate the refractory period. Problem is there
         | is risk of significant cardiovascular side effects, including
         | valvular disease. And they appear to be cumulative: the more
         | pills you take, the higher the risk.
        
       | loeg wrote:
       | I was curious about the mechanism.
       | 
       | https://www.nature.com/articles/s43856-025-00752-7
       | 
       | > YCT-529 works by interfering with vitamin A signaling necessary
       | for sperm production and fertility.
       | 
       | > The importance of dietary vitamin A and retinoid signaling for
       | male germ cell development and differentiation has been
       | recognized for many years6. All trans-retinoic acid (Fig. 1a) is
       | an active metabolite of vitamin A that exerts its function, at
       | least partly, by binding to retinoic acid receptors (RARs). The
       | RARs a, b, and g, are encoded by the Rara, Rarb, and Rarg genes
       | in mice, and Rara and Rarg have been validated as contraceptive
       | targets by genetic knockouts resulting in male sterility7,8.
       | Notably, the effects on spermatogenesis in the absence of RARa
       | most resemble the loss of RAR signaling in vitamin A deficiency,
       | and the mice are otherwise normal7,8. Further, the effects on
       | spermatogenesis in animals treated orally with the dual RARa/RARg
       | antagonist BMS-189453 (Fig. 1a, b) closely phenocopied the
       | absence of RARa function. Importantly, the resulting male
       | sterility is reversible9,10,11. We, therefore, wished to identify
       | RARa-selective inhibitors for potential male non-hormonal
       | contraception. Our study describes the development of YCT-529, a
       | highly selective RARa antagonist that reduces sperm counts in
       | mice and non-human primates. Mating studies with male mice
       | treated with 10 mg/kg/day for 4 weeks show that YCT-529 is 99%
       | effective in preventing pregnancies and that the mice fully
       | regain fertility after drug cessation.
        
       | mistercheph wrote:
       | This pill is definitely good for you, with no unmeasured and
       | unexpected side effects!
        
         | derektank wrote:
         | What is the purpose of this comment? This is reporting on a
         | phase 1 trial, which is when side effects and potential
         | toxicity are evaluated. Of course there are no known side
         | effects yet, that's what the trial exists to identify.
        
       | Traubenfuchs wrote:
       | This is important, as women coercing men or ignoring their
       | consent regarding pregnancy is not uncommon.
       | 
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_fatherhood
        
       | thecupisblue wrote:
       | First off, this thread seems to bring out the most "reddit-like"
       | posts on HN. If you've come here to shoot a funny one-liner
       | comment, please reconsider - the point is discussion, not karma
       | farming.
       | 
       | Now, on the topic itself - I really wonder about the safety
       | profile of these. While this selectively inhibits only RARa and
       | is thus "biased" towards mostly acting on testes, it could also
       | have side-effects - and while the effect might not be pronounced
       | yet, with long term use it definitely could be, especially if all
       | the RARa receptors get inhibited (will beta and gamma pick up the
       | slack? what is it going to cause?).
       | 
       | Considering the 99% effectiveness claim and the method of action,
       | I wonder if the embryos in that 1% case can even survive.
        
         | flawn wrote:
         | 1) Long-term effects are surely a topic but as with female
         | birth control and the risks connected to it, as well as female-
         | male couples where the female has an incompatibility with birth
         | control, the male partners might take the risk of using it
         | 
         | 2) Does it matter if the embryo will survive even in the 1%
         | case? Somebody who uses birth control would not want a child
         | anyway, right?
        
           | ses1984 wrote:
           | 2) but it can still be very traumatic. Miscarriages are
           | traumatic. Getting abortions is traumatic.
        
       | codr7 wrote:
       | From big pharma, yes.
       | 
       | But their so called "solutions" seem to become ever more
       | destructive long term.
       | 
       | Neem is a natural alternative that has been used for a long time.
        
         | JumpCrisscross wrote:
         | > _Neem is a natural alternative that has been used for a long
         | time_
         | 
         | It is [1]. But it also trashes your liver if used chronically
         | [2].
         | 
         | [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34092456/
         | 
         | [2]
         | https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2018JPhCS1025a2043J/abstra...
        
         | BriggyDwiggs42 wrote:
         | How about we nationalize the drug companies AND shoot blanks
        
       | water-data-dude wrote:
       | One concern I might have is that I've heard (and Wikipedia
       | confirms, though with caveats[1]) that ejaculation can help avoid
       | prostate cancer.
       | 
       | "These [studies] suggest that frequent ejaculation after puberty
       | offers some reduction of the risk of prostate cancer."
       | 
       | I think we need more/bigger studies to get a handle on how big
       | the effect is though.
       | 
       | [1] NSFW warning - this is a Wikipedia article with a picture of
       | a guy ejaculating riiiiight at the top:
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ejaculation#Health_issues
        
         | Vilian wrote:
         | It inhibit the sperm not ejaculation
        
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