[HN Gopher] Three Felonies a Day (2013)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Three Felonies a Day (2013)
        
       Author : zekrioca
       Score  : 76 points
       Date   : 2025-04-20 10:23 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (kottke.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (kottke.org)
        
       | ashton314 wrote:
       | I would love some examples for other occupations.
        
         | AyyEye wrote:
         | If you have ever bought, sold, transported, held, or been alone
         | in a room with a Gibson guitar you have been in violation of
         | the Lacey Act.
        
       | ralusek wrote:
       | > If you've done nothing wrong, you have nothing to hide
       | 
       | Ok but in not hiding anything, we all apparently do a lot
       | "wrong."
        
         | rad_gruchalski wrote:
         | "Only those who do nothing make no mistakes".
        
           | johnisgood wrote:
           | Inaction can be a mistake, too. :P
        
           | Toorkit wrote:
           | Absolutely. I have a flawless record.
        
       | ericyd wrote:
       | For such a short book review I feel like they could have listed
       | out one or two example felonies that people likely commit each
       | day. Feels like a weird tease.
        
         | armada651 wrote:
         | According to this review the book never backs up its claim:
         | https://www.econlib.org/three-felonies-a-day/
        
           | fny wrote:
           | At the same time, that review concedes he "would bet the
           | number is more like three felonies a month." That seems
           | sufficient for abuse.
        
           | nativeit wrote:
           | I don't know that it was intended to assert or enumerate that
           | as a literal statement? Seems like it was only trying to
           | suggest that our code of laws is such that any individual
           | could be targeted, and it's plausible that they could be
           | found in violation of some statute given sufficient
           | motivation on the part of investigators. This strikes me as
           | intuitively true, and tracks with other signals such as the
           | impact of "Broken Windows Policing"[1], the recent
           | application of Justice Department investigations as political
           | retribution, the ongoing phenomena of false confessions[2],
           | the statistics involved with erroneous convictions[3], etc..
           | 
           | That's a charitable reading of the title and the author's
           | intentions. I don't know that their underlying point is even
           | possible to quantify, but in my opinion that doesn't detract
           | from its basic assertion that no one should feel out-of-reach
           | from the kind of motivated prosecution they describe in the
           | one highlighted example.
           | 
           | I also ran across another comment under one of the more
           | critical reviews of the book, and I found it relevant (as did
           | the author of the critical review, in their reply)[4]:
           | 
           | > Also, I think the book also makes an important point
           | implicitly on 'rule of law' arguments as they relate to
           | public policy. It's common for people to argue, for example,
           | that regardless of the merits of illegal immigration or
           | economic regulations, their violators deserve to be punished
           | simply because, "it's the law." We can't just let the law go
           | unenforced. Except the law (often very trivial laws) goes
           | selectively unenforced - and selectively enforced - all the
           | time, as illustrated in Silverglate's book. It's already a
           | foregone conclusion that we pick in choose how many resources
           | (if any at all) to devote to enforcing a particular crime,
           | usually depending on how severe it's considered by most
           | people.
           | 
           | --
           | 
           | 1. https://www.simplypsychology.org/broken-windows-
           | theory.html
           | 
           | 2. https://www.apa.org/news/podcasts/speaking-of-
           | psychology/fal...
           | 
           | 3. https://innocenceproject.org/exonerations-data/
           | 
           | 4. https://www.econlib.org/three-felonies-a-day/
           | 
           | Edit: formatting
        
             | gruez wrote:
             | >I don't know that it was intended to assert or enumerate
             | that as a literal statement?
             | 
             | Here's the blub from amazon.com:
             | 
             | >The average professional in this country wakes up in the
             | morning, goes to work, comes home, eats dinner, and then
             | goes to sleep, unaware that he or she has likely committed
             | several federal crimes that day.
             | 
             | I don't know how you can read that and think "three
             | felonies a day was a metaphor!"
             | 
             | >I don't know that their underlying point is even possible
             | to quantify, but in my opinion that doesn't detract from
             | its basic assertion that no one should feel out-of-reach
             | from the kind of motivated prosecution they describe in the
             | one highlighted example.
             | 
             | Sorry, but "they're were still directionally correct" is
             | not an excuse for sloppy writing and outlandish claims. The
             | author didn't have to incorporate the "three felonies a
             | day" into his book. He could have named it literally
             | anything else.
        
             | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
             | I certainly took that "3 felonies a day" literally, or at
             | least in the realm of possibility. I think a "yeah, just
             | kidding!" response is horrifically lame.
        
         | qingcharles wrote:
         | Here's one that most people on here probably violate daily:
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43745382
        
       | metadat wrote:
       | Discussed previously:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5860250 - 169 comments (June
       | 2013)
        
       | zellyn wrote:
       | "If you give me six lines written by the hand of the most honest
       | of men, I will find something in them which will hang him."
        
       | xyst wrote:
       | The "case study" [1] in the author's post is unsubstantiated. The
       | author of the "case study" (it's a short e-mail depicting a
       | conviction of a C-level executive) even tries to parallel it with
       | Aaron Schwartz conviction which is disgusting to me.
       | 
       | The C-level executive and his lackeys were committing _insider
       | trading_ and profited from it. You getting caught with your pants
       | down is not government overreach, it's blatant greed. This does
       | not have any similarity to Aaron Schwartz wrongful conviction.
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20130614024309/https://mailman.s...
        
         | Asooka wrote:
         | But that's the point - he wasn't doing anything that other CEOs
         | weren't doing too, except he got targeted by the government and
         | was imprisoned for six years.
        
           | ecb_penguin wrote:
           | > But that's the point - he wasn't doing anything that other
           | CEOs weren't doing too
           | 
           | 1. Millions of business executives go their entire life
           | without insider trading
           | 
           | 2. Lots of people commit crimes and are not caught. It
           | doesn't mean you're excused when you are caught.
        
             | deknos wrote:
             | > 1. Millions of business executives go their entire life
             | without insider trading
             | 
             | Citation needed. At some point at some position you will be
             | ALWAYS vulnerable. that's for the people at the top and at
             | the bottom. both are very vulnerable. the people at the top
             | have MUCH to loose. the people at the bottom can be stopped
             | to have anything to loose and still be tortured.
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | >he wasn't doing anything that other CEOs weren't doing too
           | 
           | Source? Are you making the claim that "other CEOs" (all?
           | most? many?) trade on material nonpublic information? CEOs
           | basically always have material nonpublic information on them,
           | even without secret government contracts. That's why there's
           | rule 10b5-1, to allow them to pre-declare their trades ahead
           | of time to avoid such allegations.
        
             | dullcrisp wrote:
             | And also the implicit claim that this is fine and normal
             | and that insider trading laws shouldn't be enforced against
             | CEOs?
        
               | tavavex wrote:
               | I feel like we're reading two different posts. In my
               | interpretation, the post describes the whole accusation
               | as a logical contradiction. It's not your normal insider
               | trading - it's an accusation based on the fact that the
               | CEO did any stock transactions while knowing classified
               | information that also related to his company. What was he
               | supposed to do to make this right? Tell the general
               | public the classified information? Avoid doing anything
               | with his company's shares indefinitely (or at least, for
               | the decades until said information is declassified)? The
               | defense here goes beyond "everyone does this so this is
               | fine" (though I wouldn't be surprised if others did in
               | fact do this).
        
               | gruez wrote:
               | >Avoid doing anything with his company's shares
               | indefinitely (or at least, for the decades until said
               | information is declassified)?
               | 
               | Wouldn't the contracts eventually show up on the
               | financial statements?
        
               | dullcrisp wrote:
               | You got me, I just came to the comments to learn what
               | felonies I'm committing so I may be missing some nuance.
               | 
               | But I do believe that doing stock transactions while
               | knowing material non-public information is the definition
               | of insider trading that you're taught if you ever work at
               | a public company. As for how exactly you're supposed to
               | handle that if you're the CEO I'm not sure but I don't
               | think the answer is "just do the insider trading,
               | everyone does it."
        
               | jlund-molfese wrote:
               | Isn't this type of situation what blind trusts are
               | supposed to be for? Although they'd obviously be
               | inconvenient.
        
           | vajrabum wrote:
           | The feds don't generally indict unless it's a slam dunk. That
           | means two things. Lots of people walk and they will go after
           | someone if they have the evidence. As a small investor I'm
           | glad they get at least a few. Insider trading is a kind of
           | stealing where the victims don't generally even know they've
           | been robbed and at the high end the amounts are large.
        
             | deknos wrote:
             | > The feds don't generally indict unless it's a slam dunk.
             | 
             | You do not need to. You can ruin reputation. You can starve
             | them in court proceedings and rituals.
        
           | xyst wrote:
           | This comment is also unsubstantiated stating "he wasn't doing
           | anything that other CEOs weren't doing".
           | 
           | Where's the proof? If this is true, then ask yourself. Why
           | the fuck isn't the government [in the 2000s] doing their job?
           | Why aren't the people demanding executives be held
           | accountable?
           | 
           | 6 years in club fed for a $52M+ profit in insider trading is
           | peanuts.
           | 
           | The neoliberal/neoclassical economy we live is wild.
        
         | sejje wrote:
         | Aaron wasn't convicted.
        
       | metaphor wrote:
       | The complaint[1] by the SEC against Qwest during the dot-com
       | bubble...you decide if Nacchio serving "a trumped-up 6-year
       | federal prison sentence" was appropriate.
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://www.sec.gov/files/litigation/complaints/comp18936.pd...
        
         | capitainenemo wrote:
         | The case against Nacchio is a different one.
        
       | prmph wrote:
       | 1. Speeding over the speed limit can be a crime. I haven't ever
       | driven in the US and not noticed that pretty much everyone around
       | me is over-speeding
       | 
       | 2. Failing to pay tax on certain gifts can be a crime
       | 
       | > You make a gift if you give property (including money), or the
       | use of or income from property, without expecting to receive
       | something of at least equal value in return. If you sell
       | something at less than its full value or if you make an interest-
       | free or reduced-interest loan, you may be making a gift. [1]
       | 
       | 3. If you are reading Hacker News on end instead of working for
       | your employers who pays you, you could be stealing from them, a
       | felony.
       | 
       | 4. Jay-walking can a misdemeanor, and open to interpretation.
       | Commit 3 misdemeanors and you could have committed a felony.
       | 
       | 5. More examples come to mind
       | 
       | [1] https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-
       | employe...
        
         | atian wrote:
         | There is a huge lifetime gift tax exemption.
        
         | nashashmi wrote:
         | Traffic rules are not criminal laws. Breaking a traffic rule is
         | not a crime. Likewise, reading news at work is not a felony,
         | just a lack of discipline and work ethic.
         | 
         | Understand that there are differences between rules, policy,
         | regulations, and laws. Work is regulated (rule is on how to do
         | things), policy is practiced (rule on how things are treated),
         | while laws forbid (rule on what you cannot do).
        
           | rayiner wrote:
           | In many states, such as Maryland, traffic laws are criminal
           | laws and breaking a traffic law is a misdemeanor criminal
           | offense.
        
           | prmph wrote:
           | > Breaking a traffic rule is not a crime.
           | 
           | You think over speeding and running a red light and hitting
           | someone and potentially killing them is not a crime? Think
           | again.
           | 
           | Regarding reading at work, see this comment [1]:
           | 
           | > checking Hacker News from work when you should be working
           | is a federal felony, and if not honest services fraud,
           | certainly something they could try you with for wire fraud
           | (it is financial in that you are billing your employer for
           | your time!). Moreover if you check a site for non-work
           | purposes which has a note in the ToS which says that unlawful
           | use is prohibited, then you have committed felony computer
           | trespass (because you "accessed" their servers in excess of
           | authorization provided by the ToS in pursuit of criminal or
           | tortuous ends).
           | 
           | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5860641
        
             | qingcharles wrote:
             | Also:
             | 
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43745382
        
         | gruez wrote:
         | >1. Speeding over the speed limit can be a crime. I haven't
         | ever driven in the US and not noticed that pretty much everyone
         | around me is over-speeding
         | 
         | Most "over-speeding" isn't a crime, and is only a civil
         | infraction. It only becomes a crime when you're absurdly over
         | the limit.
         | 
         | > 2. Failing to pay tax on certain gifts can be a crime
         | 
         | Again, it _can_ be a crime, but not for the overwhelming
         | majority of people. The gift exemption limit for 2025 is
         | $19,000. How many people are getting that much in gifts, but
         | don 't have their shit together for a tax lawyer? Moreover
         | there's a section for it on your tax returns, so the "I forgot"
         | excuse makes as much sense as "forgetting" to file taxes for
         | your crypto sales.
         | 
         | >3. If you are reading Hacker News on end instead of working
         | for your employers who pays you, you could be stealing from
         | them, a felony.
         | 
         | >3. Jay-walking can a misdemeanor, and open to interpretation.
         | Commit 3 misdemeanors and you could have committed a felony.
         | 
         | Source on either of them happening in actuality?
        
           | EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote:
           | >> How many people are getting that much in gifts
           | 
           | The giver of the gift should file form 709 and potentially
           | pay taxes, not the recipient. Recipient pays nothing.
        
             | gruez wrote:
             | >The giver of the gift should file form 709
             | 
             | still, you only have to file if you're gifting above $18k
             | 
             | https://www.irs.gov/instructions/i709
        
           | wrs wrote:
           | Despite the name, a gift tax return isn't to pay any tax,
           | it's just to deduct the gift from a future (several million
           | dollar) estate tax exemption. There's no reason to avoid
           | filing one.
        
           | potato3732842 wrote:
           | >Most "over-speeding" isn't a crime, and is only a civil
           | infraction. It only becomes a crime when you're absurdly over
           | the limit.
           | 
           | "Absurdly" is 15-20 depending on state and most highway
           | traffic hits that outside of peak hours. The only reason the
           | cops don't make a cash cow out of it is because doing so
           | would get either the laws or speed limits changed to reflect
           | reality.
           | 
           | >Again, it can be a crime, but not for the overwhelming
           | majority of people. The gift exemption limit for 2025 is
           | $19,000. How many people are getting that much in gifts, but
           | don't have their shit together for a tax lawyer? Moreover
           | there's a section for it on your tax returns, so the "I
           | forgot" excuse makes as much sense as "forgetting" to file
           | taxes for your crypto sales.
           | 
           | Trivially easy to move that kind of money or goods/services
           | of equivalent value when you have a family business.
           | 
           | >Source on either of them happening in actuality?
           | 
           | The powers that be aren't stupid enough to actually burn that
           | capability using it. I have zero doubt they verbally use it
           | in negotiations all the time.
        
         | markburns wrote:
         | People obeying the speed limit encounter fewer people obeying
         | the speed limit than people speeding and vice versa.
         | 
         | My theory: I think this explains why so many drivers hate other
         | drivers and think they are bad drivers.
         | 
         | People that love to speed think they are good because they can
         | drive faster and react quickly (presumably). They inadvertently
         | see more people that don't drive in this style.
         | 
         | People who drive carefully encounter more reckless drivers.
        
           | BoingBoomTschak wrote:
           | Driving carefully (resp. recklessly) isn't the same as
           | driving under (resp. over) the limits.
           | 
           | I've been pulled by _gendarmes_ who told me  "yes, we know
           | this limit should be 20 km/h higher" but still fined me.
           | Absurd limits targeting the lowest common denominator in
           | vehicle/driver reliability or simply because your local mayor
           | wants to turn his city into a pedestrian/cyclist paradise by
           | making it car hell really aren't rare here.
        
           | potato3732842 wrote:
           | Nobody cares or even notices all the cars driving normally,
           | it's the sub par people everyone notices. I think there's
           | some minority of drivers who stopped getting any better once
           | they got their license who soak up the hate from everybody.
           | If that minority is say 5-10% it's basically guaranteed that
           | literally everyone else is inconvenienced by one of them on
           | every trip.
        
       | croes wrote:
       | Land of the free
        
       | djha-skin wrote:
       | It should be remembered that in 2013 all the Edward Snowden stuff
       | came out. This reads like a reaction to those revelations. Read
       | in that context, it makes more sense: this is less a book review
       | and more an accusation. Its portent is that the NSA will do
       | anything it needs to to get at your data.
       | 
       | My father served in the military. He does not have a high opinion
       | of Edward Snowden. He says that loose lips sink ships. He says
       | that these kinds of leaks cause soldiers to die.
       | 
       | I have no patience for men who cause soldiers to die, but after
       | that experience I do remain skeptical of the NSA and NIST.
        
         | Mistletoe wrote:
         | What did the soldiers fighting in the wars die for if the
         | government becomes a totalitarian surveillance cesspool anyway?
         | The sacrifice means nothing if we become what they were
         | fighting.
        
           | GoblinSlayer wrote:
           | Soldiers fighting totalitarian surveillance cesspool would be
           | like state fighting itself.
        
         | snypher wrote:
         | >I have no patience for men who cause soldiers to die
         | 
         | I'll remember this when I next think of when we spent twenty
         | years sending our kids to die in the sandbox.
        
           | robocat wrote:
           | You are responding with a grey comment to a black & white
           | statement (metaphorically).
           | 
           | Different thinking styles.
        
           | djha-skin wrote:
           | I understand your statement and it has merit. However, I note
           | the draft has not been active since the 70s. Those men all
           | volunteered to serve their country. They believed in what
           | they were doing, and so did I.
           | 
           | Yes, some volunteered to get out of poverty, bad
           | circumstances, etc., but that doesn't mean it was the only
           | route out. They chose to be there.
           | 
           | My uncle was in a bad situation, married early and had no
           | money or degree. He joined the army and served in Desert
           | Storm. He chose to be there. I was proud of him.
           | 
           | I didn't join because at the time I graduated high school
           | (2005), they weren't taking people who took Adderall for ADHD
           | ("daily psycoactive drug" or some such nonsense). It
           | disqualified me from military service. That's what the
           | recruiter told me anyway. But I would have been proud to
           | serve.
           | 
           | I believe we did good in Afghanistan, fool's errand though it
           | was. I believe a lot of lives were touched good. An entire
           | generation of girls who would otherwise not have an
           | education, for one. I was devastated when things didn't work
           | out.
           | 
           | For this reason, I get annoyed when people say "we sent our
           | kids to die".
        
             | ty6853 wrote:
             | Meanwhile military recruiters were coming to high schools
             | grooming underage kids to sign up for the war. The strong
             | underlying tone was "you're poor let us fix it."
             | 
             | If the local strip club came by and into the local school
             | playing up the strip club to 16 years olds and asking them
             | to come work the day they were 18 you all know we'd be
             | appalled.
             | 
             | Everyone knows what they're doing. They bait kids and then
             | get them to sign up to die.
        
       | bartread wrote:
       | I can sort of buy it but, honestly, this argument would be a lot
       | more convincing with more concrete examples that are relateable
       | to ordinary people. Some CEO getting busted for insider trading
       | is not "ordinary people".
       | 
       | There's nothing in there that backs up this assertion: "The
       | average professional in this country wakes up in the morning,
       | goes to work, comes home, eats dinner, and then goes to sleep,
       | unaware that he or she has likely committed several federal
       | crimes that day."
       | 
       | Like I say, I could buy it, but I need more concrete evidence -
       | with examples - and less hyperbole, please.
        
       | hermannj314 wrote:
       | I asked if I could pay cash for an MRI rather than wait for
       | insurance approval just to speed up the process of booking. I
       | offered to manually file a reimbursement later if it was approved
       | or pay cash if it wasn't.
       | 
       | Apparently, in the United States that is considered insurance
       | fraud or something, whereas when I lived in Luxembourg that is
       | how the system worked. I don't even understand what world we have
       | constructed in the US.
        
         | jagged-chisel wrote:
         | Keep in mind that the facility is likely making an error. But
         | you won't convince them of that if any of the staff suspects
         | anything could be perceived as fraudulent (even if it's not) -
         | they'll just avoid the risk.
        
         | _dark_matter_ wrote:
         | Idk what happened on their end, but someone close to me was
         | recently diagnosed with cancer. After the biopsy came out
         | positive, they wanted to do a pet scan, but had to wait for
         | approval from insurance (which apparently could take several
         | weeks). I offered the same as you, and they agreed and did the
         | pet scan within days.
        
         | wrs wrote:
         | That sounds like it might be the staff just being uninformed
         | because nobody has ever wanted to do that before.
         | 
         | But a likely _practical_ problem with that plan is that the
         | cash price is unrelated to the price the insurance company has
         | negotiated with the facility, and the negotiated price is a
         | secret, so if you pay the cash price you won't be reimbursed
         | for the amount you paid. You'd need to get them to agree to
         | refund the difference if insurance approved later.
         | 
         | For imaging in particular, there are some facilities that can
         | handle direct payment rather than expecting everything to be
         | paid by insurance. Maybe look for one of those if this comes up
         | again.
         | 
         | Yes, this is very messed up. Welcome to the USA!
        
           | gizmo686 wrote:
           | Are the negotiated prices secret? I've never had a major
           | hospital visit. But every time insurance has covered
           | something for me, I could look on my account claims and see
           | both the official price, and the negotiated price.
           | 
           | I also had an "amusing" experience with my dental insurance,
           | where my provider went out of network, and I didn't know
           | until I was in the chair (at which point I was at least asked
           | before they proceeded). When I went to pay, they gave me a
           | bill that listed only something to the effect of "anticipated
           | insurance payment", which is what I was charged. They also
           | filed an insurance claim on my behalf, which was eventually
           | reimbursed fully. However, when I got the reimbursement
           | notice from my insurer, it list a cash price about 50% higher
           | than what I paid, which my insurance company was able to
           | negotiate down for me.
        
         | cameron_b wrote:
         | Unless you actually spoke with someone on the legal side in
         | billing, the assumption passed through hospital systems is to
         | stay way away from things which could possibly be seen as
         | fraud, quid pro quo, kickbacks, or any host of financial crimes
         | that are unusual. The staff are taught "You are not a lawyer,
         | let us handle that, here is your playbook" and not to deviate
         | from that.
         | 
         | That disposition of bracing against legal wrangling underscores
         | most of the annoying parts of healthcare, especially the cost.
         | 
         | -I work in a hospital system's technical department.
        
         | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
         | That's not insurance fraud, that's (one way) insurance works,
         | so I'm not sure who told you this was fraud or why. If you pay
         | in cash, then submit a claim, your insurance company can very
         | well deny you, but as long as you weren't reimbursed through
         | some other process, there is no fraud.
        
         | Ylpertnodi wrote:
         | I had an MRI last week. Cost me EUR35. Though if you miss the
         | appointment, or fail to pick up the results, the penalty is
         | EUR215. Me...doctor...hospital. No other parties involved.
         | Especially not an insurance company - but those do exist, if
         | you wish. What, indeed, have you constructed in the US?
        
       | fastaguy88 wrote:
       | Not a lawyer, but there are a lot of crimes that are not
       | felonies. Speeding 10 mph above the limit in a 65 mph zone - not
       | a felony. Reading hacker news for an hour during work time and
       | not being paid $800/hr - not a felony. Calling in sick when you
       | are hung over - not a felony. There is no federal tax on gifts
       | for the giftee. Indeed, I suspect there are a surprising number
       | of crimes that could get you jail time that are not felonies.
       | Insider trading - it's a felony, which is why people in companies
       | with insider trading information are told they cannot trade at
       | certain times.
       | 
       | I'm pretty comfortable believing I have probably not committed
       | more than two or three felonies in my life. (Don't want to find
       | out I am wrong.)
        
         | titanomachy wrote:
         | Those are not crimes either, though.
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | The claim is specifically three "felonies" a day, though.
        
         | everforward wrote:
         | How much of that is them being categorically not a felony and
         | how much is prosecutorial discretion? 15 over probably
         | qualifies for a reckless operation charge of some kind.
         | Likewise, I wouldn't be surprised if a fake sick day is wire
         | fraud even if it never actually gets charged that way.
         | 
         | I would believe you've only committed two or three "name-brand"
         | felonies, I'd be surprised if it were really that few under a
         | maximally scoped prosecutor. Never borrowed antibiotics or a
         | painkiller from a friend? Never decided it wasn't worth the
         | effort to file a tax document for $3 of dividends?
         | 
         | 3 a day feels high, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were
         | double digits a year under an incredibly strict reading of the
         | laws for the average person.
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | Parallel construction seems to be the more leveraged government
       | tool these days.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_construction
        
       | antiquark wrote:
       | Reminded me of the youtube vid, "Don't Talk to the Police" [1].
       | One of the speaker's points is that there are so many laws that
       | people might not know which law they broke.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
        
       | kazinator wrote:
       | There is a Russian adage about it. Evidently this:
       | 
       | "Byl by chelovek, a stat'ia naidetsia" (Byl by chelovyek, a
       | statya naydyot sa.)
       | 
       | "Where there is a man, there is an article" (of law he's breaking
       | that could be used to convict him).
        
       | wcfrobert wrote:
       | - Not reporting large cash transactions (over $10,000)
       | 
       | - Using someone else's ID can be interpreted as identity theft
       | (sharing student ID discount, Costco cards, epic passes)
       | 
       | - torrenting copyrighted content (textbooks, music, movies, TV
       | shows, audio books). I'm sure most of my classmates in school
       | torrented some of those $200 textbooks.
        
         | gruez wrote:
         | >- Not reporting large cash transactions (over $10,000)
         | 
         | If you're talking about Currency Transaction Report, only
         | financial institutions have to file those.
         | 
         | >- Using someone else's ID can be interpreted as identity theft
         | (sharing student ID discount, Costco cards, epic passes)
         | 
         | Is "identity theft" actually a distinct crime? Or is it just
         | fraud? If it's the latter, it's not a felony unless you're
         | getting absurdly high amounts of benefit.
         | 
         | >- torrenting copyrighted content (textbooks, music, movies, TV
         | shows, audio books). I'm sure most if not all of my classmates
         | in school torrented some of those $200 textbooks.
         | 
         | Copyright infringement is a civil infraction unless you're
         | doing it commercially (eg. burning bootleg DVDs to sell)
        
           | wcfrobert wrote:
           | I was thinking form 8300.
           | 
           | Could seeding a torrent be interpreted as distribution?
           | 
           | You're right most of these would result in a slap on the
           | wrist or fines. Perhaps 3 misdemeanors a day? But I think the
           | overall sentiment still stands - that it's hard to be a
           | saint.
        
             | gruez wrote:
             | >I was thinking form 8300.
             | 
             | It's only criminal for "willful" infractions. If you sold a
             | car and forgot to file, that's probably not willful.
             | Moreover, how often are people really doing >$10k cash
             | transactions? "it's hard to be a saint" is a massive
             | shifting of the goalposts from "3 felonies per day".
             | 
             | https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-
             | employe...
             | 
             | >Could seeding a torrent be interpreted as distribution?
             | 
             | From wikipedia: United States v. LaMacchia 871 F.Supp. 535
             | (1994) was a case decided by the United States District
             | Court for the District of Massachusetts which ruled that,
             | under the copyright and cybercrime laws effective at the
             | time, committing copyright infringement for non-commercial
             | motives could not be prosecuted under criminal copyright
             | law.
        
               | pixl97 wrote:
               | "Willful" is one of those things highly dependent on
               | whoever may be prosecuting you. If you have from some
               | disliked class then the state is going to push very hard
               | on you doing it willfully.
        
           | qingcharles wrote:
           | I was in jail with tons of people with identity theft
           | indictments. In Illinois it is absolutely a separate crime
           | with a whole list of ways you can easily commit it.
        
         | kazinator wrote:
         | I feel you are mixing something up here. Assume that the
         | student ID discount or Costco card, etc, are being borrowed:
         | used with the card holder's blessing. Or borrowing a Netflix
         | password.
         | 
         | It is the institution giving the student ID discount, or Costco
         | or Netflix, who are not happy about it, and call it theft.
         | 
         | But it is not theft of the identity.
        
         | kazinator wrote:
         | > I'm sure most of my classmates in school torrented some of
         | those $200 textbooks.
         | 
         | That is so 2020. Today, AI pirates the textbooks; the student
         | just generate the homework.
        
       | hn_throwaway_99 wrote:
       | To be blunt, I think this blog post highlights everything that's
       | wrong with Internet discourse today (and in 2013) :
       | 
       | 1. First, make a bold assertion (i.e. that an average person
       | commits three felonies a day) and provide absolutely _zero_
       | evidence for this, or even an example of what those felonies are.
       | Sure, this blog post references a book that I 'm assuming has
       | more info, but given that "vague, overbroad laws" are the central
       | thesis of this blog post, the author should at least give some
       | examples or evidence of what he's referring to. "Lie with
       | citations", where you make a claim, and with a referenced link,
       | but that link only has a tangential relationship with your claim,
       | is all too common online.
       | 
       | 2. The post brings up the example of Joseph P Nacchio's
       | prosecution with a telling that is clearly one-sided and doesn't
       | even entertain the possibility that he committed serious crimes.
       | I absolutely believe it was possible he was prosecuted for his
       | decision to push back against the NSA, but I'm certainly not
       | going to believe it from this blog post. The Wikipedia article on
       | Joseph Nacchio states "Nacchio claimed that he was not in a
       | rightful state of mind when he sold his shares because of
       | problems with his son, and the imminent announcement of a number
       | of government contracts." So it seems clear to me he at least
       | admitted that some of his stock sales were improper.
       | 
       | What I think is even more assinine is that the one single
       | example, a CEO who was prosecuted for insider trading, absolutely
       | does _not_ support the assertion that the average person commits
       | 3 felonies a day, or that laws are overbroad. I 'm quite sure
       | I've never made any equity transactions that could be considered
       | insider trading, so my empathy for this situation is low.
        
         | woleium wrote:
         | When i read these sorts of articles i often wonder which "think
         | tank" (i.e. corporate interest) paid for it.
        
       | qingcharles wrote:
       | In Illinois (and probably other states) it is illegal to violate
       | the T&Cs of a web site:                 720 ILCS 5/17-51 Computer
       | tampering.       (a) A person commits computer tampering when he
       | or she knowingly and without the authorization of a computer's
       | owner or in excess of the authority granted to him or her:
       | (1) Accesses or causes to be accessed a computer or any part
       | thereof, a computer network, or a program or data;       (a-10)
       | For purposes of subsection (a), accessing a computer network is
       | deemed to be with the authorization of a computer's owner if:
       | (2) the owner authorizes the public to access the computer
       | network and the person accessing the computer network complies
       | with all terms or conditions for use of the computer network that
       | are imposed by the owner;
        
         | Aloisius wrote:
         | (a)(1) is a misdemeanor, not a felony.
        
       | bombcar wrote:
       | Three felonies a day? Rookie numbers.
        
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