[HN Gopher] Vibe Coding is not an excuse for low-quality work
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       Vibe Coding is not an excuse for low-quality work
        
       Author : saikatsg
       Score  : 91 points
       Date   : 2025-04-19 20:00 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (addyo.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (addyo.substack.com)
        
       | nivenclay wrote:
       | "The big takeaway is that speed means nothing without quality" -
       | I feel like this is not true in 'move fast and break things'
       | ideology
        
         | LPisGood wrote:
         | I feel like people don't really understand that ideology - if
         | all you ever do is break things (or produce broken things),
         | then you're not actually moving fast at all.
        
       | frereubu wrote:
       | > treat the AI like a super-speedy but junior developer on your
       | team
       | 
       | That sounds like it's going to take a lot more time that just
       | writing the code for an experienced developer. The issue with AI
       | for me is that it produces plausible-looking code which requires
       | a lot of attention to read through, because things that look
       | superficially "right", including any justification in code
       | comments, can actually have really problematic flaws.
        
         | packetlost wrote:
         | I've found utility + speed go up the more conservative (in
         | number of lines) the model generates. If it only completed a
         | line it's much more likely to be exactly what I was about to
         | type
        
         | captainbland wrote:
         | I remember when I'd rushed a piece of work when studying, I had
         | a lecturer who told us something like:
         | 
         | There are a few kinds of developers: good, bad, slow and fast.
         | Everyone wants to be a good developer but a fast and bad
         | developer is worse than a slow and bad developer because they
         | end up doing so much damage.
        
           | master_crab wrote:
           | He could have been copying General Kurt Hammerstein.
           | Paraphrasing here:
           | 
           | There are four kinds of military officers: smart and lazy,
           | smart and hard working, dumb and hardworking, dumb and lazy.
           | 
           | Keep the dumb and hardworking away from any high level
           | position. They actively make things worse. Dumb and lazy are
           | useful for simple tasks with oversight. Smart and hardworking
           | are excellent for high level staff and analyst positions.
           | 
           | The Smart and Lazy should be saved for high level command.
           | They expend only the energy necessary to get the job done and
           | then focus on the next important task.
        
       | SCdF wrote:
       | So what have we redefined vibe coding to mean exactly?
       | 
       | The original tweet[1] talked very specifically about not caring
       | about quality, just accepting whatever code the AI produces
       | blindly, as long as you get the black box output you're looking
       | for, and just randomly try again if you didn't.
       | 
       | Are people now using this term to mean "giving an AI agent broad
       | tasks"?
       | 
       | [1] https://x.com/karpathy/status/1886192184808149383?lang=en
        
         | spaceywilly wrote:
         | From that tweet:
         | 
         | > I don't read the diffs anymore. When I get error messages I
         | just copy paste them in with no comment, usually that fixes it
         | 
         | That sums up vibe coding, imo.
         | 
         | The article talks about code quality with vibe coding, but I
         | think that misses the point. The real problem is code
         | knowledge. When a vibe coder inevitably needs to debug
         | something, if they have no idea what any of the code does, or
         | why it is the way it is, they are not going to have a good
         | time.
         | 
         | Sure they can copy paste the error into the LLM and hope for
         | the best, but what happens when that doesn't fix it? I've
         | already had to spend hours at work tracking down bugs that
         | ending up being in there because someone just blindly accepted
         | the code an LLM wrote, I fear it's only going to get worse.
        
           | benmanns wrote:
           | Like you, I'm far too risk averse to not fact check
           | everything an LLM outputs, but I've also fixed bugs that have
           | been present for 5+ years. Maybe at a certain point you can
           | just wait for the next generation of model to fix the bugs.
           | And wait for the generation after that to fix the newly
           | introduced and/or more subtle bugs.
        
           | mr_mitm wrote:
           | Also from the tweet;
           | 
           | > It's not too bad for throwaway weekend projects, but still
           | quite amusing
           | 
           | You were never supposed to vibe code on serious projects.
        
             | fma wrote:
             | It's fine for tooling or weekend project. I did it on an
             | internal tool. It's got so much functionality now though,
             | that Cursor struggles. It was great when I had a blank
             | project, needed x, y, z and it went off and did It's thing.
             | The moment the project got bug and need modifications, it
             | is better that I do it myself.
             | 
             | Also I am a backend engineer. I don't know what kind of
             | code it's producing for my front end. I just hit accept
             | all. But seeing how it does the backend code and having to
             | prompt it to do something better (architectural,
             | performance, code reuse) I have no doubt the front end of
             | my pool is a pile of poop.
             | 
             | I fear that management will see these small quick gains and
             | think it applies to everything.
             | 
             | I'm of the opinion now, that vibe coding is good if you are
             | familiar with the code & stack and can ensure quality. You
             | don't want to give it to a product owner and have them try
             | to be an engineer (or have a backend dev do front end, vice
             | versa).
             | 
             | Just my opinion.
        
             | SoftTalker wrote:
             | Any project that solves a real need will invariably become
             | serious.
             | 
             | I have lost count of the number of quick one off scripts
             | that ended up still being used in production workloads five
             | (or more) years later.
        
           | musicale wrote:
           | > When a vibe coder inevitably needs to debug something, if
           | they have no idea what any of the code does, or why it is the
           | way it is, they are not going to have a good time
           | 
           | Kernighan's law still applies.
           | 
           | https://www.laws-of-software.com/laws/kernighan/
        
           | rvz wrote:
           | > Sure they can copy paste the error into the LLM and hope
           | for the best, but what happens when that doesn't fix it?
           | 
           | Neither side cares unfortunately.
           | 
           | When users attempt to prompt away their problems without
           | understanding the error and it doesn't solve it, that is
           | still good news for Cursor and Anthropic and it is more money
           | for them.
           | 
           | The influencers encouraging "vibe coding" also don't care.
           | They need to be paid for their Twitter money or YouTube ad
           | revenue.
        
           | maccard wrote:
           | > I've already had to spend hours at work tracking down bugs
           | that ending up being in there because someone just blindly
           | accepted the code an LLM wrote, I fear it's only going to get
           | worse
           | 
           | And I've also had to spend hours at work tracking down badly
           | copy pasted stack overflow code, or from other places in the
           | codebase that didn't do what the programmer thought it did. A
           | shitty carpenter will build a shitty staircase whether they
           | have a chisel or a dremel
        
         | marcusb wrote:
         | The definition seems to have pretty rapidly moved to 'used an
         | AI coding assistant in some capacity'.
        
         | rvz wrote:
         | It is a scam. Invented by someone who is an AI researcher, but
         | not a software engineer which the latter rigorously focuses on
         | code quality.
         | 
         | "Vibe-coding" as it is defined, throws away all the principles
         | of software engineering and adopts an unchecked approach into
         | using AI generated code with "accept all changes" then duct-
         | taping it with more code on top of a chaotic code architecture
         | or none (single massive file) and especially with zero tests.
         | 
         | The fact is, it encourages carelessness and ignores security
         | principles just to make it acceptable to create low quality and
         | broken software that can be hacked very easily.
         | 
         | You can spot some of these "vibe-coders" if they believe that
         | they can destroy Docusign in a day with Cursor + Claude with
         | their solution.
         | 
         | Who's going to tell them?
        
           | simonw wrote:
           | Saying that Andrej Karpathy is "an AI researcher, but not a
           | software engineer" isn't a very credible statement.
           | 
           | If you read to the end of his tweet, he specifically says
           | "It's not too bad for throwaway weekend projects, but still
           | quite amusing. I'm building a project or webapp, but it's not
           | really coding - I just see stuff, say stuff, run stuff, and
           | copy paste stuff, and it mostly works."
        
             | rvz wrote:
             | > Saying that Andrej Karpathy is "an AI researcher, but not
             | a software engineer" isn't a very credible statement.
             | 
             | I think it is. He is certainly a great AI researcher /
             | scientist, but not really a software engineer.
             | 
             | > It's not too bad for throwaway weekend projects, but
             | still quite amusing. I'm building a project or webapp, but
             | it's not really coding - I just see stuff, say stuff, run
             | stuff, and copy paste stuff, and it mostly works."
             | 
             | So is that the future of software engineering? "Accept all
             | changes", "Copy paste stuff", "It mostly works" and little
             | to no tests whatsoever as that is what "Vibe coding" is.
             | 
             | Would _you_ yourself want vibe-coded software that is in
             | highly critical systems such as in aeroplanes, hospitals,
             | or in energy infrastructure?
             | 
             | I don't think so.
        
               | simonw wrote:
               | Where did Andrej say it was "the future of software
               | engineering"? He _very_ clearly described vibe coding as
               | an entertaining way to hack on throwaway weekend
               | projects.
               | 
               | Try reading the whole tweet!
               | https://twitter.com/karpathy/status/1886192184808149383
               | 
               | "Would you yourself want vibe-coded software that is in
               | highly critical systems such as in aeroplanes, hospitals,
               | or in energy infrastructure?"
               | 
               | Of course not. That's why I wrote
               | https://simonwillison.net/2025/Mar/19/vibe-coding/#using-
               | llm...
               | 
               | To save you the click:
               | 
               | > The job of a software developer is not (just) to churn
               | out code and features. We need to create code that
               | demonstrably works, and can be understood by other humans
               | (and machines), and that will support continued
               | development in the future.
               | 
               | > We need to consider performance, accessibility,
               | security, maintainability, cost efficiency. Software
               | engineering is all about trade-offs--our job is to pick
               | from dozens of potential solutions by balancing all
               | manner of requirements, both explicit and implied.
               | 
               | > We also need to read the code. My golden rule for
               | production-quality AI-assisted programming is that I
               | won't commit any code to my repository if I couldn't
               | explain exactly what it does to somebody else.
               | 
               | > If an LLM wrote the code for you, and you then reviewed
               | it, tested it thoroughly and made sure you could explain
               | how it works to someone else that's not vibe coding, it's
               | software development. The usage of an LLM to support that
               | activity is immaterial.
        
             | alternatex wrote:
             | Your comment might make sense when it's scoped down to that
             | article when he coined that term. If you take a look at his
             | larger collection of statements on software engineering
             | recently, it's hard not to put him in the bucket of
             | overenthusiastic AI peddlers of today.
        
         | dheera wrote:
         | I absolutely hate the polarization around "vibe coding".
         | 
         | The whole point of AI agents is to eventually get good enough
         | to do this stuff better than humans do. It's okay to dogfood
         | and test them now and see how well they do, and improve them
         | over time.
         | 
         | Software engineers will eventually become managers of AI
         | agents. Vibe coding is just version 0.1 pre-alpha of that
         | future.
        
           | candiddevmike wrote:
           | > Software engineers will eventually become managers of AI
           | agents.
           | 
           | Source? This seems very optimistic on both ends (that AI will
           | replace SE work, AND SEs will still be employed to manage
           | them).
        
           | simonw wrote:
           | "The whole point of AI agents is to eventually get good
           | enough to do this stuff better than humans do"
           | 
           | You can be an enthusiastic adopter of AI tooling (like I am)
           | without wanting them to eventually be better than humans at
           | everything.
           | 
           | I'm very much still in the "augment, don't replace" camp when
           | it comes to AI tooling.
        
           | davb wrote:
           | Anyone who has maintained code that written by engineers new
           | to the industry, who didn't understand the context of a
           | system or the underlying principles of what they're writing,
           | may disagree.
        
           | bigstrat2003 wrote:
           | > The whole point of AI agents is to eventually get good
           | enough to do this stuff better than humans do. It's okay to
           | dogfood and test them now and see how well they do, and
           | improve them over time.
           | 
           | I agree with that. The problem I have is that people are
           | getting sucked into the hype and evaluating the results of
           | those tests with _major_ rose-colored glasses. They glaze
           | over all the issues and fool themselves into thinking that
           | the overall result is favorable.
        
         | simonw wrote:
         | I wrote about this last month: "Not all AI-assisted programming
         | is vibe coding" - https://simonwillison.net/2025/Mar/19/vibe-
         | coding/
         | 
         | Vibe coding is when you don't review the code at all. If you're
         | using LLMs to help you write code but you're actually reviewing
         | what they produce (and iterating on it) that's not vibe coding
         | any more.
         | 
         | This battle is almost certainly lost already, but dammit I'm
         | gonna keep fighting anyway!
         | 
         | Salty version:
         | https://bsky.app/profile/simonwillison.net/post/3ll2rtxeucs2...
         | 
         | > Feels like I'm losing the battle on this one, I keep seeing
         | people use "vibe coding" to mean any time an LLM is used to
         | write code
         | 
         | > I'm particularly frustrated because for a few glorious
         | moments we had the chance at having ONE piece of AI-related
         | terminology with a clear, widely accepted definition!
         | 
         | > But it turns out people couldn't be trusted to read all the
         | way to the end of Andrej's tweet, so now we are back to yet
         | another term where different people assume it means different
         | things
         | 
         | I found out this anti-pattern where a newly coined term loses
         | its definition as it spreads more widely is called "semantic
         | diffusion": https://simonwillison.net/2025/Mar/23/semantic-
         | diffusion/
        
           | senko wrote:
           | We do need a simple term for "used AI to write code
           | (semi)autonomously, but checked and/or tweaked the result and
           | I care about the quality".
           | 
           | Vibe-but-verify? Faux-Vibe? AiPair? (... I'll see myself
           | out...)
        
             | bluefirebrand wrote:
             | The term for this is "unicorn"
             | 
             | Entirely fictional creature that doesn't exist
             | 
             | Every person who I have seen embracing AI coding has been
             | getting lazier and lazier about verifying
        
           | diggan wrote:
           | I don't know if it's you and I (and some others) who are just
           | uptight sticklers or something, but it bothers me a ton too.
           | Same thing happening with "open source" in connection to
           | LLMs, where suddenly some companies have decided to try to
           | redefine the meaning, people lack the care to make the
           | distinction.
           | 
           | In a dream world, each new terminology goes through an RFC to
           | figure out a meaning we all (some of us) can agree to, so at
           | least we can link to an angry RFC when people continue to
           | misuse the term anyways.
        
         | xnx wrote:
         | Vibe coder - someone who uses more coding assistance than I do
        
       | alphazard wrote:
       | Different people clearly mean different things when they talk
       | about software quality. There is quality as perceived by the
       | user: few bugs, accurately models the problem they have, no more
       | complicated than necessary, etc. Then there is this other notion
       | of quality as something to do with how the software is built. How
       | neat and clear it is. How easy it is to extend or change.
       | 
       | The first kind of quality is the only kind that matters in the
       | end. The second kind has mattered a lot up until now because of
       | how involved humans are in typing up and editing software. It
       | doesn't need to matter going forward. To a machine, the entire
       | application can be rewritten just as easily as making a small
       | change.
       | 
       | I would gladly give up all semblance of the second kind of
       | quality in exchange for formal specifications and testing
       | methods, which an AI goes through the trouble of satisfying for
       | me. Concepts and models matter in the problem domain (assuming
       | humans are the ones using the software), but they will
       | increasingly have no place in the solution domain.
        
         | bluefirebrand wrote:
         | > The first kind of quality is the only kind that matters in
         | the end.
         | 
         | How easy it is to maintain and extend does absolutely matter,
         | in a world where software is constantly growing and evolving
         | and never "finished"
        
         | userbinator wrote:
         | The problem is that the first kind of quality is something
         | that's hard for even human programmers to do well, while AI is,
         | like the rest of the tools that came before, much better at the
         | second.
        
         | allenu wrote:
         | > The first kind of quality is the only kind that matters in
         | the end.
         | 
         | From a business perspective, this is what's exciting to a lot
         | of people. I think we have to recognize that a lot of products
         | fail not because the software was written poorly, but because
         | the business idea wasn't very good.
         | 
         | If a business is able to spin up its product using some aspect
         | of vibe coding to test out its merits, and is able to explore
         | product-market fit more quickly, does it really matter if the
         | code quality is bad? Likewise, a well-crafted product can still
         | fail because either the market shifted (maybe it took too long
         | to produce) or because there really wasn't a market for it to
         | begin with. Obviously, there's a middle ground here, and if you
         | go too far with vibe coding and produce something that
         | constantly fails or is hard to maintain, then maybe you've gone
         | too far, but it's a balance that needs to be weighed against
         | business risk.
        
           | candiddevmike wrote:
           | Low/no code MVP solutions have existed for a long time. Vibe
           | coding seems like you'll get worse results than just using
           | one of those, at least from a bug/support standpoint.
        
         | SCdF wrote:
         | > The first kind of quality is the only kind that matters in
         | the end.
         | 
         | Yes. But the first kind of quality is enabled with the second
         | kind.
         | 
         | Until we live in a faultless closed loop[1], where with AI "the
         | entire application can be rewritten just as easily as making a
         | small change." you still need the second kind.
         | 
         | [1] and it's debatable if we ever will
        
         | spamizbad wrote:
         | The second type of quality is necessary to achieve the first
         | type of quality for systems with nontrivial levels of
         | complexity. It doesn't need to be perfect, or even close to
         | perfect, but it does need to be "good enough" -
         | 
         | Your end users will eventually notice how long bugs take to get
         | fixed, how long and how often outages occur, and how long it
         | takes to get new functionality into your software.
         | 
         | But beyond your end-users, you likely have competitors: and if
         | your competitors start moving faster, build a reputation of
         | dependability and responsiveness, your business WILL suffer.
         | You will see attrition, your CAC will go up, and those costs
         | get absorbed somewhere: either in less runway, less capex/opex
         | (layoffs), higher priced or all of the above. And that's an
         | entire domain AI isn't (yet) suited to assist.
         | 
         | There's no free lunch.
        
         | armchairhacker wrote:
         | The problem domain is part of the solution domain: writing a
         | good specification and tests is a skill.
         | 
         | Moreover, I suspect the second kind of quality won't completely
         | go away: a smart machine will develop new techniques to
         | organize its code (making it "neat and clear" to the machine),
         | which may resemble human techniques. I wouldn't bet much on it,
         | but maybe even, buried within the cryptic code output by a
         | machine, there will be patterns resembling popular design
         | patterns.
         | 
         | Brute force can get results faster than careful planning, but
         | brute force and planning gets results faster than both. AI will
         | keep being optimized (even if one day it starts optimizing
         | itself), and organization is presumably a good optimization.
         | 
         | Furthermore: LLMs think differently than humans, e.g. they seem
         | to have much larger "context" (analogous to short-term memory)
         | but their training (analogous to long-term memory) is
         | immutable. Yet there are similarities as demonstrated in LLM
         | responses, e.g. they reason in English, and reach conclusions
         | without understanding the steps they took. Assuming this holds
         | for later AIs, the structures those AIs organize their code
         | into to make it easier to understand, probably won't be the
         | structures humans would create, but they'll be similar.
         | 
         | Although a different type of model and much smaller, there's
         | evidence of this in auto-encoders: they work via compression,
         | which is a form of organization, and the weights roughly
         | correspond to human concepts like specific numbers (MNIST) or
         | facial characteristics
         | (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VAkrUNLKSo&t=352).
        
       | neural_thing wrote:
       | What percentage of companies can hire an engineer who writes
       | better code than o3?
        
         | DaSHacka wrote:
         | 100%
        
           | neural_thing wrote:
           | highly doubt that
        
             | biglyburrito wrote:
             | Then why ask the question, if you're so sure of the answer?
        
         | kbelder wrote:
         | I'm a big booster of AI, but this doesn't even make sense. Any
         | project using even the very best code generator in existence is
         | going to need to be stewarded and tightly monitored by a
         | competent programmer. AI is miraculous, but can't do crap
         | reliably on it's own.
        
         | vunderba wrote:
         | Given that o3 just spun its wheels endlessly trying to correct
         | a CSS issue by suggesting to create a "tailwind.config.X" file
         | despite being given the package JSON which contained a clear
         | reference to Tailwind 4x - I'd say any engineer capable of
         | reading and learning from basic documentation.
         | 
         | For reference, Tailwind 4 will not read in config files by
         | default (which is the older behavior) - the encouraged practice
         | is to configure customizations directly in the CSS file _where
         | you import Tailwind itself_.
        
         | only-one1701 wrote:
         | This question isn't useful without context. But yes the answer
         | is probably 100%.
        
         | Applejinx wrote:
         | Whatever percentage that can hire an engineer at all.
         | 
         | This won't be 100%, but that'll be the companies who're able to
         | hire somebody to parse the problems that arise. Without that
         | engineer, they'll be doing what OP calls 'vibe coding', meaning
         | they'll neither understand nor be able to fix when the whole
         | thing blows up.
        
         | bigstrat2003 wrote:
         | It is most definitely 100%. Any competent programmer can write
         | code better than the current AI tools.
        
       | cjonas wrote:
       | It totally depends on the use case.
       | 
       | As a consultant the majority of my work is around business
       | process automation and integrating cloud systems. We build a lot
       | of small "applications" that change almost constantly. The number
       | of concurrent users is low, the lifespan of the software
       | typically short and to justify the effort has to be done quickly
       | and efficiently.
       | 
       | It's 100% "value engineering".
       | 
       | AI agent pairing has been an absolute game changer. It can single
       | shot most requirements and refactors. I basically am just writing
       | technical requirements and reading pull requests all day now.
       | 
       | I actually think the quality of the output has gone up
       | significantly because you can just accomplish much more in the
       | same limited budget.
        
       | ndepoel wrote:
       | This all reminds me a lot of the early 2000's, when big
       | corporations thought they could save a lot of money by
       | outsourcing development work to low-income countries and have
       | their expensive in-house engineers only write specifications.
       | Turns out most of those outsourcing parties won't truly
       | understand the core ideas behind the system you're trying to
       | build, won't think outside the box and make corrections where
       | necessary, and will just build the thing exactly as written in
       | the spec. The result being that to get the end product you want,
       | the spec needs to be so finely detailed and refined that by the
       | time you get both specification and implementation to the desired
       | quality level, it would have been the same amount of effort (and
       | probably less time and frustration) to just build the system in-
       | house.
       | 
       | Of course outsourcing software development hasn't gone away, but
       | it hasn't become anywhere near as prevalent and dominant as its
       | proponents would've had you believe. I see the same happening
       | with AI coding - it has its place, certainly for prototyping and
       | quick-and-dirty solutions - but it cannot and will not truly
       | replace human understanding, ingenuity, creativity and insight.
        
         | cactusfrog wrote:
         | Deleted
        
           | saagarjha wrote:
           | I don't think this addresses the comment you're replying to.
        
           | cpursley wrote:
           | It's sad you're getting downvoted by gatekeepers. It's
           | absolutely a good thing that more people have access. Maybe
           | not for inflated costal salaries and egos, however.
        
         | eastbound wrote:
         | Oh yes[1]
         | 
         | Then remember when we said tests should be the specs?
         | 
         | Then we said the end users are the specs?
         | 
         | All of them can be construed as a joke in our erratic search
         | for the correct way to write software without those $150k
         | developers that seem to be the only ones getting the job done,
         | assuming they have a competent management hierarchy and stock
         | options incentives.
         | 
         | [1] We have a waterfall software and I wonder whether
         | Crockford's license "JSON should be used for good, not evil"
         | was meant for me
        
           | A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 wrote:
           | I think this erratic manner of trying to find the correct way
           | is the issue. I am currently nearing my 2nd year at a company
           | A in my industry, and while I did know they all kinda suck in
           | their own special way, I honestly had no idea it was this bad
           | until I had to try to make this craziness somehow work for
           | us. Even if there are standards, I do not see people
           | following them. Last year, the one girl, who did seem to try
           | to follow some common sense approach, got fired for
           | effectively using common sense against big boss wishes.
           | 
           | What I am saying it is a mess from beginning to end and I am
           | honestly not sure if there is one factor that could solve
           | it..
        
         | znpy wrote:
         | Have we stopped, really?
         | 
         | Last time i was at a faang my org also had offices in one of
         | those "low-income countries". So in a way we haven't stopped.
         | 
         | Also, depending on how you define "low-income" then up to two
         | thirds of the organisation i worked in was in a low-income
         | country.
        
           | gbear605 wrote:
           | In my experience, directly hiring (or hiring through a local
           | company) developers in a "low-income country" - in my
           | experience, Eastern Europe and Latin America - goes a lot
           | better than just contracting out a body of work to a third
           | party. Especially if your company is already fully remote,
           | you're able to get developers who integrate onto your team
           | just like American devs, and are just as good at coding.
        
           | nyarlathotep_ wrote:
           | > Have we stopped, really?
           | 
           | No, when I was at a large, well-known company a year ago, job
           | listings were 2:1 off-shore (India, South America) vs on-
           | shore. There was also an increasing amount of contractors
           | used, even for public-facing stuff you wouldn't expect.
        
         | texuf wrote:
         | Do any of these vibe coding tools write out the prompts as
         | specs and then keep the specs up to date as you continue
         | prompting? Seems like specs == formal prompts.
        
           | viraptor wrote:
           | You don't need a tool for that. "You're going to assist me in
           | writing a detailed software spec in markdown. At each step
           | adjust the document to incorporate new information. Suggest
           | improvements and highlight areas which have been ignored so
           | far. Initial description: ..."
           | 
           | If you have multiple of those, you can tell it about required
           | sections / format, or provide a good past example.
        
         | Buttons840 wrote:
         | More than one project manager has insisted that _everything_
         | about the system must be documented--that 's called the source
         | code.
         | 
         | As you say, by the time you specify _everything_ , you've
         | written the code.
        
           | smcg wrote:
           | Theoretically a PM could say "the code is disposable and
           | obsoleted by the next deployment. let's just document our
           | prompts."
           | 
           | I don't know if that's a good idea but a lot of people are
           | going to try it.
        
       | datavirtue wrote:
       | Vibe seo vibe seo vibe seo vibe seo
        
         | rzzzt wrote:
         | Code vibing.
        
       | saagarjha wrote:
       | If you use AI to make low-quality work, then _you_ made low-
       | quality work. It's pretty simple.
        
       | AlexCoventry wrote:
       | Not an excuse, but maybe an explanation. I was just talking to
       | someone who was bragging about getting the cost of coding down to
       | a penny a line. Seems like an insane metric to use, to me, since
       | it takes no account of features developed or
       | maintainability/modifiability.
        
       | forgotTheLast wrote:
       | >In essence, let the AI handle the grunt work, not the brain
       | work.
       | 
       | And importantly make sure the user doing the brain work has the
       | experience and support to do it properly. The XY problem can
       | cause a lot of damage with AI agents that implement what's asked
       | of them instead of asking why.
        
       | danenania wrote:
       | I built Plandex[1] to try to enable a more sustainable approach
       | to vibe coding. It writes all of the model's changes to a
       | cumulative version-controlled sandbox by default, which in my
       | experience helps a lot to address many of the points raised in
       | the article. While there are still categories of tasks I'd rather
       | do myself than vibe code, the default-sandbox approach makes it
       | feel a lot less risky to give something a shot.
       | 
       | On another note, a related but somewhat different technique that
       | I think is still under-appreciated is "vibe debugging", i.e.
       | repeatedly executing commands (builds, tests, typechecks,
       | dependency installs, etc.) until they run successfully. This
       | helps a lot with what imo are some of the most tedious tasks in
       | software development--stuff like getting your webpack server to
       | startup correctly, getting a big C project to compile for the
       | first time, fixing random dependency installation errors, getting
       | your CloudFormation template to deploy without errors, and so on.
       | It's not so much that these tasks are 'difficult' really. They
       | just require a lot of trial-and-error and have a slow feedback
       | loop, which makes them naturally a good fit for AI.
       | 
       | I put a lot of focus on execution control in Plandex in order to
       | make it helpful for these kinds of problems. It's built to be
       | transactional--you can apply the changes from the sandbox, run
       | pending commands, and then roll back all changes if the commands
       | fail. You can do this repeatedly, even letting it continue
       | automatically for some number of tries until the commands succeed
       | (or you hit the tries limit). While there are some limitations to
       | the terminal modality in terms of UX, I think this is an area
       | where a CLI-based agent can really shine.
       | 
       | 1 - https://github.com/plandex-ai/plandex
        
       | geor9e wrote:
       | This is common sense. The whole article read like they asked
       | ChatGPT to fluff one sentence "review vibe code with a human
       | before pushing to prod" into an entire article.
        
         | tysonworks wrote:
         | Vibe blogging.
        
       | NineWillows wrote:
       | It's hard to take anyone seriously who takes the term "vibe
       | coding" this seriously, considering that the whole thing spawned
       | from a casual tongue-in-cheek tweet. I recently saw a job posting
       | for a "Vibe Coder". Nuts.
        
       | cookie_monsta wrote:
       | I don't mean to be dismissive (here goes, though) but the whole
       | article boils down to one point, and it's one that frightens me
       | that it needs to be repeated so often: use AI as your intern, not
       | your replacement
       | 
       | Simple.
        
       | dboreham wrote:
       | I think all this rests on the unacknowleged fact that most
       | software never goes into production. When you have a choice
       | between paying expensive humans to create software that works vs
       | cheap AI to create software that doesn't, if nobody is ever going
       | to use it, the AI option is the one to pick.
        
       | afiodorov wrote:
       | I think it is a losing battle. People are energy preserving
       | creatures and we skip paying attention if we can. Because paying
       | attention is effort. Vibe coding is exactly this, low effort
       | development and thus is enticing. Now if we can get away with low
       | effort why shouldn't we? I am not advocating serious NATO
       | missions to be vibe coded for trajectories, no. When billions are
       | at stake no way. But what if billions are not at stake? What if
       | nothing is? This weekend I added a way to maximise my
       | QApplication app. I just asked Claude code to do it and tested
       | it. It worked. That is all I need for my own app that I use. It's
       | not that I don't have any other users but works on my machine is
       | the motto of this specific free and open source app.
        
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