[HN Gopher] AI-Designed Antivenoms: New Proteins to Block Deadly...
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AI-Designed Antivenoms: New Proteins to Block Deadly Snake Toxins
Author : Lol_arco
Score : 92 points
Date : 2025-04-16 18:36 UTC (3 days ago)
(HTM) web link (plentyofroom.beehiiv.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (plentyofroom.beehiiv.com)
| rsedgwick wrote:
| I almost forgot there were ML models besides LLMs!
| [RFdiffusion](https://www.bakerlab.org/2023/07/11/diffusion-
| model-for-prot...), used for the protein discovery, is a model
| somewhat related to diffusion-based image generation. So much of
| the attention right now is about what LLMs can do with their
| coding, agentic, and research capabilities as they get more and
| more powerful and self-improving. It's fun to be reminded that
| ground-breaking things still can come from "your dad's neural
| networks."
|
| Also... just because I was checking through the results of the
| paper to see if it was actually an interesting result: "The SHRT
| binder provided complete protection (100%) to mice . . . . The
| LNG binder exhibited comparable efficacy, completely neutralizing
| a-cobratoxin but not the non-target ScNtx"
| Lol_arco wrote:
| Yeah David Baker and co. are using a lot of diffusion models
| for their research! And yeah some of these mice results are
| very good, and hopefully they translate to a good degree to
| humans
| speed_spread wrote:
| Now do spiders.
| johnisgood wrote:
| And ticks.
| cinntaile wrote:
| That's not quite the same. Ticks can spread bacteria, viruses
| and pathogens. Venom consists of proteins. I assume this
| impacts development.
|
| Tick vaccines for different diseases such as lyme disease are
| in development though. For TBE they already exist.
| johnisgood wrote:
| Anything that effectively deters or kills them without
| being dangerous to humans would work for me (and is
| convenient enough).
| clathratevnp wrote:
| Gene drive perhaps?
| johnisgood wrote:
| Can you elaborate on that? Thanks!
| jfengel wrote:
| Spider bites are far less deadly. Worldwide, yearly deaths from
| spider bites number in the dozens, not tens of thousands.
|
| Spiders target small prey and it's hard for their venom to kill
| something as big as a person. It's certainly unpleasant and can
| cause significant damage even when it doesn't kill, but snakes
| are responsible for far more deaths.
| lupusreal wrote:
| Scorpions would be a much better candidate than spiders. They
| kill fewer people globally than snakes, but still thousands a
| year.
| ReptileMan wrote:
| This means they also are amazing at designing venoms. Biological
| and chemical warfare in the ai age have the potential to be
| really fun and amusing
| fancyfredbot wrote:
| As opposed to before the AI age when biological and chemical
| warfare were a friendly affair?
| squigz wrote:
| I'm not a chemical warfare expert, but I feel like we're
| probably not limited by our own ability to come up with new
| ideas in that regard. I imagine we already have plenty of
| horrible options.
| AIPedant wrote:
| The "over 100,000 deaths" seems like a slight exaggeration, this
| paper bounds the estimate at 40,000-80,000:
| https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-33627-9 Wikipedia's
| "Epidemiology of snakebites" had similar estimates.
|
| That's still a lot of people! But I was skeptical of 100,000,
| especially without a source.
| Lol_arco wrote:
| Yes you're right! It's very hard to estimate how many people
| die from snake bite, for a thousand reasons (under reporting,
| incomplete snake databases, etc). This meta analysis indeed
| puts the numbers above 100.000
| https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11020954/ but I get
| where you're coming from! The uncertainty in these data is
| huge.
| rvz wrote:
| > So, I love snakes: I think they are the coolest animals out
| there
|
| No they are not. Said almost no-one.
|
| These creatures contribute almost nothing to society and even if
| they're used to get rid of pests, there are other animals that do
| it better without being an extreme danger to humans or they can
| be safely caught and released.
|
| But instead, these creatures just want to bite, spit or strangle
| you if they feel like it and in some cases really just want to
| kill you (because they think you will kill them first).
|
| You cannot reason with these creatures with full of venom in
| their fangs even if the situation was an accident.
| squigz wrote:
| > These creatures contribute almost nothing to society
|
| Animals have to contribute to society to be useful to the
| ecology of our planet?
|
| > You cannot reason with these creatures with full of venom in
| their fangs even if the situation was an accident.
|
| You can't really reason with any creature other than a human,
| and that's often spotty too!
| theF00l wrote:
| That is interesting and I think it's a popular opinion. I think
| in line with the Epic of Gilgamesh or the Old Testament.
|
| But allow me present another opinion.
|
| Snakes don't do things they don't have to do. They don't kill
| for no reason (cf humans, cats). They do what they have to do,
| without much emotion or fanfare. They shed their skin and don't
| carry extra weight. In other cultures, a snake is a symbol of
| wisdom, rebirth and healing (eg the rod of Asclepius).
|
| Outside the symbolic arguments, I think snake venom does have
| some research use (eg blood thinners) and some would argue
| snakes are mechanically cool.
|
| Just another perspecive ofc, and I respect yours.
|
| In the end, snakes want to survive in a competitive world.
| lupusreal wrote:
| Snakes are cuties and almost all of them are completely
| harmless. A great many of them have very sweet and gentle
| personalities.
| kopos wrote:
| We were talking to the reptile caretaker at the Abu Dhabi zoo
| and we learnt that
|
| - snakes are actually cuties. And more like babies. They do not
| have strong fight or flight ability like mammals. If they get
| hurt, they go into a corner and just give up
|
| - they're extremely misunderstood beings. When a snake is
| hissing, it is because it it actually very very frightened.
|
| - their eye sight is very very bad. They detect mostly by that
| body heat. And they've a very hard time detecting friends vaa
| foes. A ball python actually curls into a ball when tensed up.
| The caretaker had to pet the snake to help it relax.
|
| - most of that snakes are non venomous.
| aurizon wrote:
| Now, how to prevent the attempts of big pharma to patent these to
| make tens of thousand of Indians/Africans pay big $$. These AI
| modelers are reputedly not validly a human creation =
| patent/copyright. These protein constructs might have a long room
| temp shelf life = needed in most Indian/African bite victims.
| philipkglass wrote:
| These will probably be ignored rather than patented/monopolized
| by Big Pharma. A few million treatable cases per year globally,
| concentrated in low-income countries, is a small market to
| chase. Medical needs in low-income countries need to be
| addressed by governments or nonprofits rather than for-profit
| companies.
|
| EDIT: replaced "100,000 treatable cases" with "a few million
| treatable cases" per
| https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11020954/ referenced
| by Lol_arco.
| aurizon wrote:
| One hopes a storable and long lasting product will be able to
| save many of those 100,000 deaths(??), but you are correct -
| it might not offer enough $$ to USA pharma?
| Lol_arco wrote:
| Yeah there isn't enough money in it for big pharma. Maybe
| some other form of funding, but this is the reason why all
| these tropical diseases are neglected.
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