[HN Gopher] Why drinking coffee in Iran has become so complicated
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Why drinking coffee in Iran has become so complicated
        
       Author : imnitwit
       Score  : 79 points
       Date   : 2025-04-16 13:25 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (adelbordbari.github.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (adelbordbari.github.io)
        
       | duxup wrote:
       | >They're selling a lifestyle.
       | 
       | People eat up "lifestyle" brand stuff like crazy. I suspect
       | people just want something special in their daily lives. I get
       | that.
       | 
       | I assume it's appealing to sellers too because it inspires some
       | potential level of loyalty and uniqueness when it comes to their
       | products where otherwise it is "just coffee".
       | 
       | Granted I say that while I sip my Kirkland coffee here at my
       | desk, amused that what was once a sort of semi generic store
       | brand, Kirkland now has it's own apparel with its brand on it and
       | Costco fans love it.
       | 
       | I guess we can find something special everywhere.
        
         | bluedino wrote:
         | I was on a coffee shop kick for...15 years?
         | 
         | And then I just quit. I'm not sure if was the price, waiting in
         | line, or the quality going down since so many places popped up
         | or what. But I just have zero interest in buying a coffee. I
         | drink generic stuff I make at home. Or I just go without.
         | 
         | Oddly around the same time I quit drinking sodas.
        
           | rdtsc wrote:
           | I am kind of the same. I will support local coffee shops
           | frequently but I am not good enough to notice the super fine
           | flavor profiles or remember them. They all taste "yummy"
           | including the stuff I grind and brew at home or from Costco.
        
         | SoftTalker wrote:
         | Yep it's all about justifying $6-8 or more for a freaking cup
         | of coffee. Even McDonald's got in on it. Used to pay about $1
         | for a drip-brewed cup of coffee, now it's "McCafe" and closer
         | to $5.
         | 
         | I drink Folgers and that's good enough.
        
       | Festro wrote:
       | Article posits this argument:
       | 
       | "They're not really about coffee anymore. They're selling a
       | lifestyle."
       | 
       | Then says of the old coffee "Coffee in Iran isn't new--we were
       | drinking it long before tea took over. Back in the Safavid era,
       | coffeehouses were where people gathered for stories, debates, and
       | a hit of something strong." - this is a lifestyle related to
       | coffee.
       | 
       | And says about the new coffee "Walk in, and the menu reads like a
       | novel: "Ethiopian Yirgacheffe with hints of jasmine and citrus.""
       | - this is the literal attributes of coffee, origin and flavour
       | profile.
       | 
       | I'm sorry, but coffee is now, more than ever, about the coffee.
       | People who enjoy coffee then make it a part of their lifestyle.
       | 
       | I'd love to hear more about the older Iranian coffee culture,
       | that sounds wonderfully romantic. It's a pattern across the world
       | that we've lost access to third spaces as everything gains a
       | capitalised cost. And as media has intensified and technology
       | poked into every waking moment we're less likely to gather
       | amongst our community in those spaces to just sit and listen
       | anymore. I think we've evolved new ways of doing things, like how
       | we enjoy our newfound international access to coffee varietals
       | but it's good to address what we've lost in doing so.
       | 
       | This article is a bit whiny about the new, and doesn't talk
       | enough about the qualities of the old. There's a good point to be
       | made, but the article makes it poorly.
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | Seriously. This article seems to reveal much more about the
         | author than about coffee.
         | 
         | I can't speak about Iran, but getting into coffee is no
         | different from getting into pie-making, or sourdough, or wine,
         | or cocktail-making.
         | 
         | They write:
         | 
         | > _Coffee used to be fuel. Now it's a lifestyle accessory._
         | 
         | I think this is the quote that reveals everything. People don't
         | _want_ just  "fuel" anymore. They want something that actually
         | tastes good.
         | 
         | But for some reason the author thinks it's all about marketing,
         | insecurity, and influencers. Can't the author just let people
         | enjoy what they like?
         | 
         | Why does it _bother_ the author so much? Why can 't they even
         | imagine it might just be because the coffee tastes better, and
         | it's a relatively inexpensive and fun hobby if you want to get
         | into it? Why do they have to judge people for it instead?
        
         | visarga wrote:
         | > "They're not really about coffee anymore. They're selling a
         | lifestyle."
         | 
         | I like the emphatic style of GPT-4o lately. I can spot it from
         | a mile.
        
           | gwern wrote:
           | Bingo. OP is obviously LLM-written and is nothing but
           | clickbait. (Did anything but that tweet even happen? Is any
           | of it true?) And HN is falling for it hook, line, and sinker
           | exactly as calculated.
           | 
           | Look at the author's previous blog posts: low effort, not
           | even correctly spelled or written, like
           | https://adelbordbari.github.io/album/2025-1-25-the-horror-
           | an... (as expected from an Iranian ESL) - and then this one
           | is suddenly boom: perfectly spelled, em-dashes all over, and
           | where did all these <br> come from? Who writes a Github Pages
           | Markdown Jekyll post with a bunch of <br>s in it...? An LLM,
           | obviously.
           | 
           | https://adelbordbari.github.io/about/
           | 
           | > I'm studying artificial intelligence at university...I'm
           | busy with my storybook that's supposed to be published by
           | June 2024 as well.
        
             | pazimzadeh wrote:
             | so they used chatGPT to translate their blog post from
             | farsi to english. who cares?
             | 
             | translation and transliteration is one of the things
             | chatgpt is great at.
        
       | paganel wrote:
       | Anyone care to recommend some specialty coffee-shops in Tehran?
       | Or in Iran, more generally? That's the one thing I'm searching
       | for when going to a new (big-ish) city, I've honestly stopped
       | caring about museums, archaeological places or the like, I just
       | want to go to the same specialty coffee shops to which I go here
       | in Bucharest, to be surrounded by the same people I'm surrounded
       | here in Bucharest while reading a book or a magazine.
       | 
       | And to give something in return, for Athens I can heartily
       | recommend Taf Coffee [1], and also MOTIV [2] just across the
       | small street, and in Vienna I have a soft spot for CoffeePirates
       | [3]
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://www.google.com/maps/place/Taf+Coffee/@37.9834313,23....
       | 
       | [2]
       | https://www.google.com/maps/place/MOTIV/@37.9835867,23.73117...
       | 
       | [3]
       | https://www.google.com/maps/place/CoffeePirates/@48.2173765,...
        
         | meesles wrote:
         | Why do you prefer to spend time in the same setting with the
         | same people when you are in a new place? Why not stay home?
        
           | Arainach wrote:
           | OP does not literally mean the same people but the same type
           | of people.
           | 
           | Having a familiar group with something in common is a great
           | conversation starter and way to make new friends. This is
           | similar to how you can visit a new area and stop by a brewery
           | (if you like beer), a sports game (if you like sports), etc.
        
             | mr_toad wrote:
             | > OP does not literally mean the same people but the same
             | type of people.
             | 
             | Same question really - aren't you most likely to find the
             | same type of people at home?
        
               | Arainach wrote:
               | No.
               | 
               | Liking coffee is only one aspect of a person. Once you're
               | talking you can learn more, make connections, and
               | potentially have a friend who you keep talking to even
               | after you return home.
               | 
               | To give a more HN-specific example: If you work at a
               | software company in the US and go to a software company
               | in India/Poland/etc. aren't you going to find the same
               | people at home? Of course not, their job is only one
               | small part of who they are.
        
               | tomjakubowski wrote:
               | > If you work at a software company in the US and go to a
               | software company in India/Poland/etc. aren't you going to
               | find the same people at home? Of course not, their job is
               | only one small part of who they are.
               | 
               | Yes, and (back to the original point) despite cultural
               | differences, you will have something in common to connect
               | with one another! (complaining about software)
        
               | noirbot wrote:
               | Sure, but sometimes you also want to travel. I find
               | myself doing this a lot when I'm on a trip - you want to
               | dive into a new culture or location, do things you
               | wouldn't do, but you also need time to recharge and feel
               | something a bit more normal.
               | 
               | Coffee shop or brewery or dive bar culture can vary some
               | place to place, but there's usually core elements of the
               | sort of social contract that are core to it and can
               | provide a sense of routine or homely comfort even when
               | you're staying at a hotel in another country. Having an
               | experience that's 80% the same as the one you'd have back
               | home can make it easier for you to recognize and
               | appreciate that 20% difference sometimes and learn about
               | a new culture.
        
           | paganel wrote:
           | I find the world pretty chaotic as it is right now, and
           | pretty split up, seeing and directly experimenting an
           | international informal community that ignores borders somehow
           | makes me more relaxed, gives purpose to a place/city I'm in
           | at a certain moment in time.
           | 
           | Later edit: I'm over-reaching/exaggerating to make a point,
           | but what I'm doing it's similar in spirit to how back in the
           | European Middle Ages many foreign merchants were seeking
           | accommodation at places very similar to what they had back
           | home, think of the Hanseatic League and of all the Hanseatic
           | Houses spread throughout the merchant cities from the Baltic
           | or the North Sea. This one was for London: The German Hanse
           | in London and the Steelyard [1]
           | 
           | [1] https://www.thehistoryoflondon.co.uk/the-german-hanse-in-
           | lon...
        
       | Conscat wrote:
       | Not Iranian, but if I want plain tasty black coffee, I can grind,
       | brew, and drink it topless at home. My favorite cafes in the bay
       | area all have _something_ more to offer me than decent plain
       | coffee. I think this is just indicative of how the culture
       | surrounding third places has changed.
        
         | lxgr wrote:
         | One big advantage of cafes is that they sell coffee and exist
         | pretty much everywhere. The same can't be said for my home.
        
       | readthenotes1 wrote:
       | Reminds of a conversation I overheard between two middle aged
       | guys talking about different expensive watches...
       | 
       | Veblan wrote about "conspicuous consumption" over 100 years ago.
       | I see this as the same disease
        
       | canjobear wrote:
       | Writing blog posts against people who are precious about their
       | coffee is also a lifestyle signal.
        
       | tkzed49 wrote:
       | Seems like the same tired take on third wave coffee, without much
       | specific to Iran. Some people like the flavor of coffee grown in
       | different regions, just like tea or wine. If you want a classic
       | espresso roast blend of whatever, I haven't been to a cafe that
       | won't sell you that.
        
         | noirbot wrote:
         | And the usual retort you get if you point that out is "but this
         | new fancy coffee tastes worse", which always strikes me as
         | amusing coming from folks who minutes before were claiming it
         | all tasted the same and mocking the idea of tasting notes being
         | real.
         | 
         | Having a preference for a traditional status quo blend is still
         | a preference!
        
       | snyp wrote:
       | The author just finds the process of ordering complicated because
       | they do not know how to. I think there is opportunity here to
       | make selecting the drink of your choice a better experience.
       | There might also be space here for coffee discovery or
       | exploration for the customer.
        
         | hilsdev wrote:
         | If there's an increasing number of options, isn't it by
         | definition becoming more complicated?
        
         | noirbot wrote:
         | I mean, it's seldom that complicated even. They just went from
         | having one choice of espresso to, likely, at most 3. The most
         | fancy coffee shops I've ever been to usually don't have more
         | than a couple espresso options dialed in at any given time. If
         | you don't care, just pick the cheapest or ask for the person's
         | favorite.
         | 
         | I'm sure there is some influencer/performative aspect to this
         | as well that the author is reacting to, but the complaint
         | strikes me mostly as a "I was ok with the status quo, and I
         | dislike that other people prefer things other than that".
         | Having preferences and choices is not by default some sort of
         | pretentious thing!
        
         | lxgr wrote:
         | Yes, but why should everybody have to show the same level of
         | care for everything they do/consume as aficionados?
         | 
         | Just like it can be extremely fulfilling to build a PC from
         | parts, compile your own Linux kernel, get an old car working
         | again etc., it can be nice to have somebody else do all of that
         | for you and focus on the details of life that you enjoy most.
        
           | Freedom2 wrote:
           | They don't? I was in Iran recently for a business trip and I
           | simply asked for my usual cappuccino one sugar at almost
           | every cafe I went to and it was hassle-free experience.
           | 
           | It's actually good to offer more options to invoke curiosity,
           | but the old options are still there.
        
           | NoboruWataya wrote:
           | > why should everybody have to show the same level of care
           | for everything they do/consume as aficionados
           | 
           | Nobody has to do this in any city I have been to. Even in the
           | most hipstery independent coffee shops, you can still ask for
           | a black/white coffee and they will make you one. And if you
           | simply can't stomach the independent coffee shop there is
           | most likely a Starbucks or Pret next door.
           | 
           | Granted I have not been to Iran, and am loathe to make
           | assumptions about countries I have not experienced, but I
           | simply do not believe that OP cannot find a "basic" coffee in
           | his city.
        
         | petre wrote:
         | That's why it works so smooth in Italy, because no one has the
         | patience for all the BS, they just want their shot of espresso,
         | not being "educated" into "coffe culture". And they also drink
         | dark roast, no useless sauer fruity notes crap, you drink
         | cascara tonic if you want that.
         | 
         | I agree with this guy. Teheran is probably a nice place if it
         | weren't for the ayatollahs, hijab police, sponsoring
         | terrorists, embargoes and "friendhip" with Russia. All those
         | details are like coffee marketing made into a religion and used
         | as state policy.
        
       | shwin wrote:
       | I think it's actually a good thing that people are increasingly
       | curious and informed about where the things they consume come
       | from. Sure, some of it can be a front, but consumers get a choice
       | to be more discriminating and demanding about where their
       | consumption comes from, and that can (and has!) lead to better
       | production practices; feels weird to complain about that.
        
         | noirbot wrote:
         | This is also a huge part. A lot of the "look at this insane
         | price for coffee" is because exploitative practices for
         | centuries has led to people having price expectations for
         | coffee that are unreasonable in a fair market. There's
         | definitely crazy high end coffees that are $20 a cup for
         | various reasons, but $6 pounds of coffee from the grocery store
         | are also an anomaly.
        
           | SOLAR_FIELDS wrote:
           | Unfortunately most people would not want to pay market rates
           | for coffee that is farmed by people paid living wages. Kona
           | coffee is a good example of this. It runs about USD
           | $25-$30/lb in bean form for actual Kona coffee (not blends)
        
             | noirbot wrote:
             | Sure, but that's essentially the thrust of the OP. "Look at
             | these decadent vapid influencers drinking their expensive
             | (but fairly priced) coffee. Why can't I just get basic
             | cheap (exploitative wage based) coffee any more in this
             | modern city? Surely they're the ones forsaking value and
             | tradition."
             | 
             | A lot of critiques of modern coffee are based in a sort of
             | silent "but I got used to the benefits of imperial
             | colonialism and exploitation. How dare these new people
             | make me consider where my drinks are from and what should
             | be paid for them." I'm certainly not claiming that's a
             | conscious thing - status quo bias is a big thing here, but
             | it's odd how often "paying a living wage" and "caring about
             | sustainable farming" is decried as decadence and depravity
             | that's destroying the old and more honorable ways of
             | living.
        
       | arthurofbabylon wrote:
       | > In Italy, ordering an espresso takes five seconds.
       | 
       | Have you had espresso in Italy? By all measures, the worst coffee
       | I have had anywhere in the world, on the level of instant coffee
       | in 2010 (remember that?).
       | 
       | I personally don't complain when people emphasize the compelling
       | story of their offerings - it typically coincides with a high-
       | quality brew!
        
         | Centigonal wrote:
         | I went to Rome in 2019 and all the coffee I had was pretty
         | decent! It was all espresso, and a lot of Lavazza (not third
         | wave local roaster stuff), but it was all pretty good.
        
         | shaky-carrousel wrote:
         | I'm guessing you didn't travel all across Italy tasting
         | espresso to back up such a broad statement. I'd be surprised if
         | you ventured much beyond a few tourist traps in Rome.
        
         | lxgr wrote:
         | That's in fact exactly what I love about espresso in Italy and
         | some other European countries: It's ubiquitous, fast, cheap
         | (even cheaper if you drink it standing up!), and as a result a
         | commodity and not something pretentious.
         | 
         | I also don't remember ever having had a bad cup of espresso in
         | Italy. If it ever happens, I'll just walk a few steps down the
         | street and chase it down with a decent or good one.
        
         | thomassmith65 wrote:
         | This is like someone accustomed to rubbery, processed
         | mozzarella visiting Italy and complaining that Italian
         | mozzarella has so little flavor and texture.
         | 
         | If someone doesn't like _Italian_ mozzarella, then they don 't
         | like mozzarella: what they like is some mozzarella-inspired
         | thing.
         | 
         | The same goes for espresso. In Italy, espresso and coffee have
         | been synonymous for over a century.
        
           | arthurofbabylon wrote:
           | Espresso has moved beyond the Italian methods, despite its
           | origins.
           | 
           | Yes, both a Moka pot and a full pressure larger machine
           | handled by someone practiced can produce excellent coffee,
           | but you cannot seriously expect espresso in an Italian city
           | to compete with what is happening in Tokyo, Bangkok, Taipei,
           | Vancouver, San Francisco, etc.
           | 
           | During coffee's third wave the profession of barista emerged,
           | and Italy took little part in this elevation of craft. There
           | are people who have literally built a career out of what
           | others (Italians included) dismiss as fuss.
           | 
           | Yes, Italy devised some of the original techniques, but that
           | was about sixty years ago, with -- I would argue -- limited
           | development since.
           | 
           | Drink fifty espressos each in Rome, Milan, (or the
           | villages!), Tokyo, Bangkok, Vancouver then tell me where you
           | think it is best.
           | 
           | (PS -- Nice try, but no one says Italian mozzarella is bad;
           | it is incredibly delicious by all accounts.)
        
             | thomassmith65 wrote:
             | There's some failure to comprehend the ubiquity of espresso
             | in Italy here.
             | 
             | When I was a kid, espresso was practically unavailable
             | outside Southern Europe. In Italy, every household had, as
             | they still do, a stovetop espresso maker. In Italy, every
             | city corner had, as it still does, a bar serving espresso.
             | 
             | Whatever Italians consider good espresso, we - who grew up
             | on filter coffee, which Italians do not drink - probably
             | ought to defer.
             | 
             | Is there a better espresso somewhere? Perhaps.
             | 
             | Is it conceivable that Italian espresso is terrible? Nope.
             | 
             | The proposition is as absurd as claiming that Japanese
             | sushi is subpar, or that Swedish dammsugare are the world's
             | worst.
        
       | behnamoh wrote:
       | > People are bored, insecure, or just looking for something to
       | latch onto. So we pay more for a label that makes us feel seen.
       | It's not about taste--it's about signaling. And cafes know that.
       | They exploit it. Ruthlessly.
       | 
       | This is a poor take on what's actually a rich cultural shift
       | towards variety seeking. What's wrong with that? The author could
       | go to a regular cafe and have the regular coffee they want, but
       | some people want trying new things.
        
         | lxgr wrote:
         | It can be frustrating for people that simply don't care for the
         | variety and now have to make choices in a place where they used
         | to be fine with an order of "one coffee, please".
         | 
         | Personally (quantity over quality when it comes to coffee), as
         | long as I can still do that and get a hot, caffeinated, sugar-
         | free (in regions where that's the default) beverage, I don't
         | mind.
        
           | behnamoh wrote:
           | > ... now have to make choices in a place where they used to
           | be fine ...
           | 
           | That seems to be the customer's problem though, not the
           | business owner. The cafe owner has no obligation to stick to
           | the old way of doing things forever. Companies change all the
           | time and if customers aren't happy about it they should move
           | on to other options.
        
             | lxgr wrote:
             | Sure, just like I (or actually TFA's author; I really don't
             | care that much) can scoff at these businesses, and be
             | annoyed if more and more places become like that.
        
           | mbac32768 wrote:
           | one alcohol, please
        
             | perching_aix wrote:
             | One shot of Everclear coming right up!
        
             | markburns wrote:
             | > a refreshment, please
             | 
             | > food or drink?
             | 
             | > why do I need to specify. I've been out all day in the
             | heat. Bring me a few refreshments.
        
         | kubb wrote:
         | There's a strong force in humans, an instinct against anything
         | new or unfamiliar. It manifests as conservatism, and it comes
         | out even against insignificant shifts.
        
       | meindnoch wrote:
       | Funny how even a repressive theocracy can seem so familiar. I
       | guess that's globalization for you.
        
       | curtisblaine wrote:
       | It's not really hard to have a default coffee type + size and
       | serve _that_ when the client asks for a coffee with no
       | specifications. I wonder why no fancy coffee place does that. I
       | guess it has to do with that hostile strain of sales tactics
       | where they screw with your instincts and blind spots to sell you
       | things you don 't really want. I'm growing more and more
       | intolerant with that kind of tactics, because they're everywhere
       | and you need to actively fight with them to avoid your money
       | being essentially scammed out of your wallet. I wonder if there's
       | something one can do to screw with them back.
        
         | noirbot wrote:
         | Most fancy coffee shops _do_ do that though. If you walk in and
         | ask for a drip coffee or an espresso, especially if you just
         | say  "I want a basic espresso", you'll probably get what you
         | want. I'm sure there's some places that would be annoying about
         | it, but most specialty places deal with plenty of people coming
         | in every day not used to ordering in specialty places.
         | 
         | If you really want a basic coffee with the cheapest beans you
         | can find, why would you go to a fancy shop? If anything, it's
         | more likely to work there than going to a multi-course
         | restaurant and trying to order a hamburger. There are other
         | businesses that serve a "no choices" need.
        
           | curtisblaine wrote:
           | Unfortunately that's not my experience. The places I've been
           | just point you to the menu, which normally is quite complex
           | and with many choices.
           | 
           | > If you really want a basic coffee with the cheapest beans
           | you can find
           | 
           | Doesn't have to be cheap, it has to be plain. Just the coffee
           | that, in average, the average disinterested client would
           | like. We had a similar concept - now almost disappeared -
           | with wine. The wine of the house was an average non-fancy
           | wine that you could drink with your dinner without spending
           | time deciphering the wine list.
           | 
           | > If you really want a basic coffee with the cheapest beans
           | you can find, why would you go to a fancy shop?
           | 
           | Because cities are migrating en masse to fancy shops. Selling
           | lifestyle is apparently more profitable & glamorous, so
           | everyone wants to be the fancy shop rather than the humble
           | bar.
        
             | noirbot wrote:
             | But "plain" isn't a thing. There is no "plain" coffee.
             | There's what Nestle and other old companies bought from
             | near slave labor in various countries over the years and
             | blended into what people expect now, but even those beans
             | independently often taste better and different if made
             | properly with modern technique and even basic equipment.
             | 
             | People are used to the specific flavor that, for instance,
             | commercial Bunn coffee makers that haven't been properly
             | cleaned for decades tastes like. There's not really any way
             | to emulate that outside of intentionally buying bad
             | equipment.
             | 
             | I'm still honestly confused that people have a hard time
             | with the menu. I literally seek out going to the best and
             | most fancy-ass coffee shops in the world when I travel and
             | most of them will still serve you a normal Americano or
             | Espresso if you order it. Some don't have drip/carafe
             | coffee because that requires specific equipment and I could
             | see that being complex, I guess, but then that's because
             | you went to a especially high end coffee shop.
             | 
             | You can still buy coffee at McDonalds or 7-11 or plenty of
             | other basic places! It's not like that was outlawed!
        
       | jabl wrote:
       | Brings to mind the classic(?) Denis Leary skit:
       | https://youtube.com/watch?v=D66P47NNnfE
        
       | Centigonal wrote:
       | One thing the author fails to take note of here is that Iranians
       | have historically been extremely precious about their bougie
       | little drinks. From tea and coffee houses to summer cordials like
       | sekanjabin, basil seed drinks, and sour cherry sharbat to the
       | dozens of varieties of doogh to all the little fresh juice places
       | in Tehran, getting way too into beverages is an enduring Iranian
       | cultural tradition (albeit fancy coffee comes with an unusually
       | high price tag).
        
         | morkalork wrote:
         | Wow, so harsh! But also so true, not in Iran but in my city an
         | Iranian cafe opened across the street from the fine arts museum
         | and serves all sorts of drinks like hibiscus sharbat, khakshir.
         | Very trendy, very bougie.
        
         | NoboruWataya wrote:
         | I've always assumed this is due to them not drinking much
         | alcohol as a culture. Alcohol occupies so much of our focus in
         | the West - so much has been written about the nuances of
         | whiskey, wine, beer, etc. It stands to reason that cultures
         | that don't drink alcohol as much would get just as invested in
         | the drinks they _do_ consume.
        
       | perching_aix wrote:
       | > When did getting a coffee turn into a whole performance?
       | 
       | Literally every time I see or hear anything on the internet about
       | coffee, it's some of the most pretentious and performative crap
       | I've ever encountered. So I'd imagine a very long while ago.
        
         | StopDisinfo910 wrote:
         | To be fair, good coffee is actually really tasty and different
         | varieties actually have different tastes. So, it's true than
         | there is a world of potential out of cheap pre-grinded over-
         | roasted bought to be as cheap as possible coffee.
         | 
         | The issue is that there is another world between that and the
         | horribly pretentious and snobbish consumers buying incredibly
         | overpriced cups from trendy places.
         | 
         | But normal people who enjoy quality coffee do exist.
        
       | vbo wrote:
       | I think there may be more to overcomplicated brews than lifestyle
       | or status. It's a desire to get technical in a world where so
       | much of life has been automated away from the consumer's view or
       | ability to affect it. Coffee is a way to tinker with something in
       | the same way previous generations tinkered with their cars or
       | radios or whatever. It's an outlet for creativity and technical
       | skill building for those that engage in brewing.
       | 
       | Coffee shops will sell rituals, status, prestige, sophistication
       | or the appearance thereof. Same as every other business. But
       | that's not to say the product can't be superior - it can. It also
       | doesn't say that every product that makes use of those marketing
       | techniques is superior; but even if it isn't, if the customer
       | walks away happy, they must've done something right, right?
       | 
       | Don't we do the same with the technology we're working on? How
       | often is it truly better beyond any critique? People were getting
       | stuff done even before our products were around with less fuss
       | and a different set of problems. We do what we do to end up busy
       | with stuff so we can do what we do all over again, don't we? I
       | digress.
       | 
       | It does get tiresome when everyone is trying to sell you an
       | experience and it becomes disappointing when the selling of
       | experiences becomes so commoditized, the thing being sold loses
       | its credibility as something special on account of being sold as
       | such. Is it a crisis of authenticity?
       | 
       | To each, their own. I used to tinker with espresso based drinks,
       | but I'm mostly over it. I've learned to discern (some) better
       | coffee beans from others, but I mostly don't drink that - I can't
       | justify paying that much for a coffee I brew myself and that I
       | may botch out of being in a hurry. It's also a distraction that
       | takes time I don't have anymore. But it was fun to explore for a
       | while and I now own a very fancy looking espresso machine,
       | grinder and all sorts of acccessories.
        
       | mppm wrote:
       | 1) Why is this even on HN? Some guy complains about third wave
       | coffee on his trashy, possibly AI generated, blog. Very
       | interesting.
       | 
       | 2) Since people take this seriously for some reason: Fine coffee
       | is neither a hallucination, nor a theater performance, nor a sign
       | of ultimate decadence. Or at least no more so than fine tea and
       | wine. Different producers, roasts and preparation methods give
       | markedly different coffee with a lot of nuance that you can learn
       | to discern and enjoy. Or not -- to each his own.
        
         | NaOH wrote:
         | _> Please don't complain that a submission is inappropriate. If
         | a story is spam or off-topic, flag it._
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        
           | mppm wrote:
           | This submission is not technically inappropriate and flagging
           | it would be an abuse of that feature. It's just very low
           | quality and very surprising that it made #1 on HN.
        
       | quantified wrote:
       | I'm glad Yrgacheffe is available somewhere. It seems to have
       | dried up in the USA. I wouldn't have gotten hooked on coffee
       | without it.
        
       | amanaplanacanal wrote:
       | Wow. This is like complaining about going into my local pub for a
       | beer and discovering they have a dozen taps. Well sure, different
       | people like different things, and sometimes I might want a creamy
       | stout, and sometimes a West Coast IPA, and sometimes a light
       | lager on a hot summer day.
       | 
       | I guess life was better for those behind the iron curtain that
       | only had one brand?
        
         | smath wrote:
         | I think both extremes can be suboptimal (no choice and too much
         | choice). See for example 'the paradox of choice' - research
         | done by Barry Schwartz and later by Sheena iyengar
         | https://modelthinkers.com/mental-model/paradox-of-choice
        
           | refulgentis wrote:
           | I'm not sure this imagined scenario, where coffee shops ask
           | where you want your beans from, would apply to this study:
           | 
           | "displayed 24 jams in a busy supermarket for tasting...60% of
           | customers stop[ped and tasted], 3% [made] a
           | purchase."..."Next, 6 jam jars....[40% stopped, less than
           | 60%], but...purchases went up [from 3%] to 30%."
           | 
           | It reeks of the worst sins of early-TED-era social psychology
           | experiments: tons of obvious confounders.
           | 
           | For instance, _24_ samples at a table that was 50% busier
           | means I 'm thinking I'll come back and wrap up my tryout next
           | week or whenever: it's very busy and I can't afford 15
           | minutes to sit around trying to maintain tasting notes on
           | something I didn't have intent to buy anyway -- if I did, I
           | wouldn't be sampling!
           | 
           | It also means less 1:1 salesmanship contact with the purveyor
           | of samples, and 4x of much investment needed on their part.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-04-19 23:00 UTC)