[HN Gopher] There are two types of dishwasher people
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       There are two types of dishwasher people
        
       Author : JumpCrisscross
       Score  : 64 points
       Date   : 2025-04-14 23:43 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theatlantic.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theatlantic.com)
        
       | WarOnPrivacy wrote:
       | https://archive.is/ZkQJA
        
       | juped wrote:
       | I'm not a fan of dishwashers. You have to handwash the dish, then
       | put it through the dishwasher, then handwash it when it comes
       | out. It seems a lot easier to just handwash it once at full
       | effort.
       | 
       | Now, this article suggests that the first handwashing can be
       | skipped with contemporary detergents, which is useful information
       | if true, though I think it wouldn't help in the social situations
       | the article talks about since it makes it look as though you're
       | cutting corners.
        
         | throw310822 wrote:
         | > You have to handwash the dish, then put it through the
         | dishwasher, then handwash it when it comes out.
         | 
         | What?
        
           | x0xrx wrote:
           | I think a lot of dishwasher opinions are based on how your
           | mom told you to wash the dishes 35 years ago.
        
             | Bukhmanizer wrote:
             | To be fair some people rent places with really old
             | dishwashers.
        
               | Rebelgecko wrote:
               | I think older dishwashers are more likely to have built
               | in garbage disposals which is actually a huge win. On
               | newer dishwashers one of the biggest problems is that
               | people don't clean the filter regularly
        
               | gs17 wrote:
               | That's my case. My old place had a brand new one and it
               | did everything perfectly. My new place has one that's
               | pretty old and not only does it need a pre-rinse, it
               | doesn't even dry things (and unlike my old one, it needs
               | a rinse aid)! And if it breaks, I'm sure the landlord
               | will replace it with an empty area under the counter.
        
           | juped wrote:
           | "What?" Great rebuttal, you sure convinced me!
           | 
           | Oh, I forgot to mention that if your local water is hard,
           | then no amount of handwashing will save you from your dish
           | being made worse. Not an issue for me at the moment, though,
           | but I've lived in places where the water seems to be about
           | 70% calcium.
        
             | maxerickson wrote:
             | Most people don't wash the dishes coming out of the
             | dishwasher.
             | 
             | I guess you might legitimately be confused about that.
             | 
             | Anyway, the other poster wasn't trying to rebut you, they
             | were prompting to explain why you do those things.
        
             | throw310822 wrote:
             | Ok. I quickly rinse the dishes before putting them in the
             | dishwasher, and put them straight back to the cupboard once
             | it's done. I've been washing dishes by hand for 15 years
             | and now I have my first dishwasher. So I know the
             | difference, and I'm loving it.
        
               | tgaj wrote:
               | I don't even rinse - I just throw bigger chunks of food
               | to the garbage can and that's it. I event let the sauce
               | to flow to the bottom of the dishwasher.
        
             | Doxin wrote:
             | re: hard water: your dishwasher has a setting for that. Set
             | it correctly and make the dishwasher salt compartment isn't
             | empty and your dishwasher will deal _fine_ with hard water.
        
               | wtallis wrote:
               | Water softeners aren't actually standard issue in all
               | dishwashers, but if you're replacing your dishwasher it
               | isn't hard to find one with that feature.
        
               | kps wrote:
               | This is a geographical difference. North American market
               | dishwashers don't typically have that; people use whole-
               | dwelling water softeners that feed all washers (including
               | human).
        
               | ackfoobar wrote:
               | I don't think I've seen salt compartments in dishwashers
               | in North America.
        
               | weaksauce wrote:
               | I have one in mine. though it's a bosch which is german
               | owned.
        
               | 1123581321 wrote:
               | Only Bosch and Miele have them, that I've seen.
        
             | apercu wrote:
             | I have a well so I have a water softener?
        
             | Rebelgecko wrote:
             | I have hard water and my dishes are not made worse by the
             | dishwasher. They actually come out better. Maybe depends on
             | your detergent?
        
             | HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
             | We are on a well (rural area). The water is so hard here
             | that when the house was built, they needed both a water
             | softener and an iron filter to treat it.
             | 
             | I had an issue this winter with my septic system freezing
             | up and in order to prevent an overflow before the tank
             | could be pumped, I was told to put the treatment system on
             | bypass (water softener cycles dump a _lot_ of waste water
             | down the drain). Even with the hard well water going
             | through the dishwasher, it never failed to clean the dishes
             | properly. This dishwasher is 22 years old.
        
           | awkward wrote:
           | If you stuff something covered in egg yolk in there it's
           | coming out with egg yolk on it. If you don't scrape whole
           | chunks of potato off the plate, you're rolling the dice with
           | whether you pull it out of a filter or out of the thin hose
           | between the dishwasher and the drain. The dishwasher's not
           | magic - if it takes a scrub to get it off, you need to scrub
           | it.
           | 
           | I don't know about handwashing after it comes out though,
           | that's crazy.
        
             | mvdtnz wrote:
             | Egg yolk is no problem whatsoever for a modern dishwasher
             | and detergent. And obviously you don't put whole potato
             | chunks in the machine. Don't be stupid.
        
               | 1970-01-01 wrote:
               | GE machines come with a garbage disposal built-in. Be as
               | stupid as you want, things are still coming out clean.
               | 
               | https://www.geappliances.com/appliances/dishwashers-with-
               | pir...
        
         | Cerium wrote:
         | Modern dishwashers are great. I was firmly of your opinion for
         | years, stubbornly a hand washer. Now I rinse dishes until there
         | are no chunks left, sauce, grease, etc is all OK. Put them into
         | the washer, and most evenings decide it's full enough and click
         | start. The next day clean dry dishes are loaded directly into
         | the cabinets.
        
           | barbarr wrote:
           | I wasn't sold on dishwashers until I learned that they use
           | less water than handwashing
        
         | ncr100 wrote:
         | You have to clean the filter more frequently, is the trade off.
         | Not a bad one IMO.
        
         | mschoch wrote:
         | > You have to handwash the dish, then put it through the
         | dishwasher, then handwash it when it comes out.
         | 
         | You have never actually used a dishwasher have you.
        
           | barbarr wrote:
           | Not the OP, but this is how my parents use the dishwasher - I
           | think a lot of people don't realize that you don't need to
           | pre-handwash for modern dishwashers.
        
             | thecosmicfrog wrote:
             | Especially if you use a small amount of detergent in the
             | pre-wash compartment. Most people (at least in Europe) just
             | use a single tablet in the main wash section. I've seen a
             | massive improvement by putting a teaspoon amount of
             | detergent in with the pre-wash. The ever-wonderful
             | Technology Connections sent me down this path.[1]
             | 
             | Without detergent in the pre-wash compartment, only water
             | is used to pre-soak the dishes.
             | 
             | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04
        
               | sidewndr46 wrote:
               | It works even better if you add trisodium phosphate to
               | the compartment.
        
               | thecosmicfrog wrote:
               | I'm using the Miele dishwasher powder myself, mainly
               | because it's the only one I could find at a reasonable
               | price that wasn't tablets:
               | 
               | https://shop.miele.com.au/en/cleaning-and-
               | accessories/miele-...
        
             | floren wrote:
             | Then there's the way my mother-in-law uses the dishwasher:
             | turn on the faucet as high as it goes, then rinse each dish
             | so much it could just go straight in the rack, then load
             | the dishwasher, then FINALLY turn the water back off.
        
         | jmholla wrote:
         | Why bother with the dishwasher if you're already washing the
         | dishes? I don't do any of those manual steps and my dishes come
         | out clean. Modern dishwashers and soap are very good at the
         | entire process.
        
           | mingus88 wrote:
           | 1) you don't need to wash the dishes before loading the
           | machine. There is a filter you can clear food out of but most
           | people don't know about it. Scrape off the solids beforehand
           | leads to less gunk in the filter.
           | 
           | 2) a cycle will typically be much hotter for much longer than
           | whatever you do manually. So the dishwasher is what I trust
           | to fully disinfect my dishes
           | 
           | 3) a family of four cooking at home will need a full load
           | every day so it's a lot more efficient than manually washing
           | and drying everything, especially when both parents work
        
             | rascul wrote:
             | > So the dishwasher is what I trust to fully disinfect my
             | dishes
             | 
             | The water probably doesn't get hot enough, unless the
             | dishwasher has a sanitize cycle.
        
           | nozzlegear wrote:
           | My wife is convinced that you need to hand wash dishes before
           | putting them in the dishwasher, so she doesn't use the
           | dishwasher (it came with the house). I actually thought the
           | two types of people in this article were going to be A)
           | people who hand wash dishes before putting them in the
           | dishwasher; and B) people who just put them in the dishwasher
           | and trust it will do its job to clean them.
        
             | donnachangstein wrote:
             | It's worth mentioning that pre-washing the dishes too clean
             | is actually worse, because the enzymes in dishwasher soap
             | are activated with the organic matter in the food debris.
        
         | barbarr wrote:
         | You absolutely don't need to handwash the dish first when using
         | a modern dishwasher. You just need to scrape off large scraps
         | into the trash.
        
           | vel0city wrote:
           | I lightly rinse the worst dishes while loading until the
           | water gets really hot at the sink next to the dishwasher.
           | Having that prewash be very hot does a lot to make sure it
           | gets it good in my experience.
           | 
           | US dishwashers tend to assume the incoming water is from the
           | hot water line and is pretty hot. It takes a bit for the tub
           | to actually get the water very hot, so you'll end up spending
           | most of the pre-wash step with only mildly warm water if you
           | don't get the hot water there first.
        
             | rascul wrote:
             | Run the hot water at the sink until it's hot then the
             | dishwasher should have hot water from the start.
        
         | j45 wrote:
         | Depends on the dishwasher.
         | 
         | A quick rinse only decreases chances of issues.
         | 
         | Also, waiting 3 years to load the dishwasher until full to run
         | it will make food hard on it.
         | 
         | Have to choose the poison.
        
         | bryanlarsen wrote:
         | Modern dishwasher soap contains enzymes that are activated by
         | proteins. Pre-rinsing prevents those enzymes from activating.
         | The dishwasher might do a better job if you don't pre-rinse.
        
           | RandallBrown wrote:
           | Don't most dishwashers pre-rinse anyway?
        
             | tokai wrote:
             | They do. Most also have 5 min cold water rinse programs.
        
         | apercu wrote:
         | Not at all my experience. I rinse the dishes before they go in
         | as they will likely sit for days and days before I fill up the
         | dishwasher.
         | 
         | Likely that's because if there's just a couple dishes I just
         | hand wash them. But when we have company the dishwasher is a
         | massive time saver. That said, I bet the average American has
         | way more electronic "stuff" and possessions than I do (with the
         | exception of instruments and music gear) as I try to live
         | pretty simply.
        
           | justinrubek wrote:
           | Of course, there may be a tipping point where that
           | "simplicity" is just shipping the complexity out to somewhere
           | else. In this case, perhaps this would arise as extra water
           | treatment plants due to the extra water used by hand washing.
           | Obviously not just from you, but if a large amount of us did
           | it this way.
        
         | giraffe_lady wrote:
         | There Are Three Types of Dishwasher People.
        
           | moogly wrote:
           | There Are Two Types of Dishwasher People, and Then There Are
           | Animals
        
             | random3 wrote:
             | made my day
        
         | CommieBobDole wrote:
         | Because everybody is replying obliquely to this: You should not
         | have to do either of those things. If your dishwasher is
         | working properly, you should be able to put fully-dirty dishes
         | in it and remove fully-clean, dry dishes from it. This is how
         | my dishwasher works and how all dishwashers I have ever owned
         | work.
         | 
         | If your dishwasher does not generally work in this way, it is
         | not working correctly.
        
           | stevenAthompson wrote:
           | My mother had a dishwasher in the late 70's that didn't work
           | properly. I think it was very expensive at the time.
           | 
           | She used it's crumminess as justification both to wash all of
           | the dishes manually, and to never buy another dishwasher
           | again, since she would obviously have to wash all of the
           | dishes by hand anyhow. The thought that technology might
           | improve over time never seemed to occur to her.
           | 
           | I get the idea that she was not alone in that.
        
         | bdamm wrote:
         | The pre-washing is silly, but the post-washing is totally
         | mental. Why on earth would you post-wash a dish? Your
         | dishwasher must be very dirty. Clean the filter, and also, run
         | a few cycles with a couple of bowls facing up in the bottom,
         | then discard the giant globs of dirt that will collect in them
         | when the cycles are done. This is how to rehabilitate an old
         | dishwasher, assuming it is mechanically working ok.
        
           | donnachangstein wrote:
           | Not to mention if your dishwasher has a sanitize cycle, you
           | are very likely making the dishes _dirtier_ and spreading new
           | bacteria onto them by post-washing them.
        
         | happytoexplain wrote:
         | Wow, I've never seen the _two_ -handwashings version of this
         | complaint! Also, that remark about how people perceive you is
         | worrying. Who are you hanging out with?
         | 
         | Seriously though, your opinion is common (maybe not majority,
         | just weirdly not as rare as you would think).
         | 
         | I sometimes wonder about it, and I generally land on these
         | explanations, in decreasing order of how common I think they
         | are ("you" below refers to the representative of all people,
         | not you personally):
         | 
         | 1. You experienced a partial failure a number of times in
         | specific cases (e.g. a fluke of loading/shapes where a spot
         | just doesn't get clean, or maybe you were expecting it to
         | accomplish the impossible task of cleaning a left-out bowl of
         | mini-wheats). This soured you and caused you to over-compensate
         | forever after.
         | 
         | 2. You have very high standards for "clean" (e.g. faint streaks
         | on glass is unacceptable).
         | 
         | 3. You over-load it or never clean the filter.
         | 
         | 4. Washers and/or detergent were indeed crappy, and are now
         | better (maybe true, but I'm not sure I buy this as a
         | significant reason).
         | 
         | 5. You use detergent packs or you don't call for hot water
         | before turning it on (even I'm guilty of these, and don't have
         | issues).
        
           | ctoth wrote:
           | Funny how easy it is to s/dishwasher/llm in this subthread.
           | 
           | > > The entire concept is flawed and can't possibly work and
           | wastes more time than it will ever save.
           | 
           | > List of tips for proper usage
        
         | 1970-01-01 wrote:
         | Buy a new dishwasher. I had an insidious dishwasher that went
         | through its entire cycle, but _sometimes_ refused to make
         | things clean. After weeks of trial and error and a few new
         | parts, I finally determined the control board was popping all
         | the detergent into the tub after just a few minutes in the
         | first cycle and then draining and restarting the main cycle
         | with just water. Everything mechanical was working perfectly,
         | but it was literally being stupid at its job. I just couldn 't
         | trust it to not do that again, and decided to scrap it and
         | upgrade on a Black Friday sale.
        
       | pryelluw wrote:
       | I'm in the process of adding a second dishwasher in the house.
       | One for clean plates and one for dirty plates.
        
         | dalmo3 wrote:
         | You joke, but I use my dishwasher exclusively as a dish rack.
         | It's just so much faster to do the washing by hand.
        
           | HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
           | Even if the washing happens when you're sleeping?
        
           | saltcured wrote:
           | Hah, we have a habit of using them as a drying rack after
           | handwashing too. With the lower rack pulled out and resting
           | on the open door, so air circulates well and things dry
           | pretty fast.
           | 
           | Eventually, you think about running the washer just to clean
           | itself. But, you wonder if the thing will surprise you with
           | leaks if you do run it, because it has been months or more
           | and who knows if the seals are working...
        
           | cpursley wrote:
           | This makes zero sense. Are you considering the machine time
           | or just loading? Also, machines wash 1000 times better than
           | hand ever could, uses less water, and doesn't dry out your
           | hands.
        
             | pazimzadeh wrote:
             | > machines wash 1000 times better than hand ever could
             | 
             | No way. Not if you're washing with a scrub sponge and
             | scraping the corners of everything. The argument for the
             | dishwasher is that you're not using an old sponge. If your
             | sponge is not nasty, washing by hand should be as good or
             | better.
        
               | Night_Thastus wrote:
               | Dishwashers, with rare exception, are much better at
               | washing dishes than people are. They can use water
               | temperatures that would burn skin, pressures that would
               | bruise, and can keep going at it for HOURS without
               | getting tired.
               | 
               | People are lazy. They only look for dirty spots and go
               | for those. They intentionally or intentionally avoid
               | cleaning some areas. Dishwashers don't care what 'looks'
               | dirty - they just keep washing.
               | 
               | Even if you _think_ it 's clean by hand, chances are
               | there's far more residual residue and bacteria you can't
               | see that a dishwasher wouldn't have any trouble with.
               | 
               | 99% of the problem with dishwashers are that people use
               | them wrong:
               | 
               | * They don't clean the filter and spray arms regularly
               | 
               | * They use the shitty pods instead of powder, which is
               | the most effective since it can have bleach
               | 
               | * They don't put some detergent in the pre-wash
               | 
               | * They have a unit that doesn't pre-heat the water and
               | need to just run the faucet for a bit to get the water
               | hot
               | 
               | * They don't use a rinse aid
               | 
               | If you can avoid those 5 mistakes, a dishwasher will
               | always way out-perform hand-washing. Even dirt cheap
               | basic units you see in low end apartments will do an
               | amazing job if actually used correctly.
        
               | pazimzadeh wrote:
               | You're missing the point. I'm not talking about people
               | lazily washing their dishes by hand. I'm talking about
               | focused hand-washing of dishes with many corners, vs.
               | sticking them in the dish-washer.
               | 
               | Like the article mentioned, to get the best result you
               | need to have your dirty dishes line up with where the
               | water is coming out. So if you need to wash something on
               | multiple sides (including top), handwashing will be
               | better.
               | 
               | Hot water is not what cleans your dishes, it's the
               | pressure from the water _washing_ things out (helped by
               | soap). Heat just softens the gunk and oil. Plus you can
               | wear gloves and /or let dishes soak in hot water so
               | that's not even a factor.
               | 
               | By the way, many microbes can survive heat (in spore
               | form), even boiling hot water. Nothing can survive being
               | washed away by soap though. Well, they could survive, but
               | they won't be on your dish.
               | 
               | As a microbiologist I'm aware that what looks clean can
               | have leftover residue. How are you measuring cleanliness
               | out of a dishwasher? I'm guessing by eye, the same way
               | you're measuring hand-washed dish cleanliness.
               | 
               | The way you talk about dishwashers is like you think
               | they're autoclaves, which can actually break spores down
               | using a high heat only achievable in a high-pressure tank
               | (higher than boiling temperature, around 120 celsius).
               | Your dishwasher is only getting about 50 to 60 degrees
               | celsius.
               | 
               | So no, a dishwasher will not _always_ out-perform hand-
               | washing. And if you 're using a new sponge, I bet you the
               | result is comparable or better if your hand-washing
               | technique doesn't suck and you should get about the same
               | result with cold water if you use enough soap.
        
               | robocat wrote:
               | Glassware looks shiny from a dishwasher.
               | 
               | Glassware looks yuck when washed by hand - even with a
               | lot of care. A dishtowel will get glassware mostly shiny
               | but it takes way more work and dishtowels are just icky
               | (past trauma of smelling a rank dishtowel, or watching
               | someone wipe their mank hands or face on a dishtowel,
               | plus you know most people wash them with underwear,
               | fabric can't be hygienic).
        
             | nonethewiser wrote:
             | It makes perfect sense. It takes about 20 seconds to wash 1
             | dish.
        
               | ac29 wrote:
               | I'm usually getting ~40 dishes and ~40 utensils into the
               | dishwasher per load, which at 20 seconds each is like
               | half an hour. I can load the dishwasher a lot quicker
               | than that.
        
               | tombert wrote:
               | If you're only using one dish, then sure it's probably
               | better to wash by hand. No one I know has ever suggested
               | running a dishwasher for one dish.
               | 
               | Dishwashers can handle a lot of dishes and loading them
               | takes like five minutes. Yes, it might take between 2 and
               | 3 hours to finish washing, but it's asynchronous, you're
               | not involved with the process. I usually load and start
               | the dishwasher right before I go to bed.
               | 
               | This is not even to mention the fact that many
               | dishwashers can sanitize dishes better than you can by
               | hand since they can get very hot and maintain that heat,
               | and the fact that they use considerably less water.
        
           | f4c39012 wrote:
           | and you can put on a podcast
        
           | spiffyk wrote:
           | The time the dishwasher takes to wash the dishes is time you
           | yourself can use for literally anything else. Not to mention
           | the savings on the water bill and the much higher quality of
           | the wash. The only objection I can think of is if you do not
           | have enough dishes, which means the dishwasher "locks in" the
           | dishes for some time, but the real solution to that is to
           | simply get extra dishes so that you have some to use while
           | the dishwasher is running - seriously, it will pay for itself
           | in no time.
        
             | dalmo3 wrote:
             | Sure. I'm in a household of 2 and wash after every meal. It
             | takes 5-10 minutes, and I'm thorough. Then unload it once a
             | day.
             | 
             | Unloading is the most annoying part, and needs to be done
             | anyway however you wash it. So, not a huge chore.
             | 
             | Most importantly, I live in a small apartment and I hate
             | the noise it makes.
        
           | pryelluw wrote:
           | I'm not joking. I am indeed in the process of doing so.
           | Working on the placement at the moment. Requires extending
           | the counter.
           | 
           | Also, I've worked as a dishwasher and don't want to do more
           | of that ever.
        
         | h4x0rr wrote:
         | Ah yes, the genius lazy method You just need to keep in mind
         | that there's much less space in a dishwasher than in a closet
        
       | xnx wrote:
       | My favorite dishwasher hack: one bowl, one spoon, one fork. Use
       | them for everything.
        
         | GuinansEyebrows wrote:
         | My desire to share a meal in my home is not fully dead but I
         | admire the efficiency.
        
           | xnx wrote:
           | Ha! To clarify, one set per person. Each person only uses and
           | is responsible for their own set.
        
             | Marsymars wrote:
             | When I was in university with three roommates we had one
             | roommate who would leave all the dishes dirty in the
             | kitchen, so when he left for Christmas break, the three of
             | us made the executive decision to go down to one set of
             | dishes per person.
        
         | lnwlebjel wrote:
         | Seriously! Family of 5? Five bowls, five spoons ... Maybe have
         | some extras in a hard to find place on the rare occasion of
         | entertaining.
        
       | AndrewKemendo wrote:
       | The author evaluated their position, measured the situation,
       | sought more information, adjusted their position, independently
       | tested it and updated their position
       | 
       | Scientific method 101
       | 
       | They did it with intentional vulnerability, and took
       | responsibility for themselves at the outset.
       | 
       | We need more of this and it's rare to actually see someone
       | document it. It requires the ability to be wrong, something that
       | seems to be going extinct ...curiously despite it being almost
       | universally accepted as a virtue.
       | 
       | > Last week, I purposefully subjected myself to the real-life
       | version of an anxiety dream. I stood in front of my boyfriend and
       | my parents--three of the people who mean the most to me, and who
       | have offered the most, uh, feedback on my dishwasher-loading
       | abilities--and tried to do the thing. Plates on the bottom, don't
       | cram too much in there, think about the spray: Honestly, it
       | wasn't that bad. I thought about the hard work, and the help,
       | required to keep a home. The dishes came out clean.
        
       | TehShrike wrote:
       | My mental model for diswashers got a lot better after watching
       | some Technology Connections: https://youtu.be/jHP942Livy0
        
         | cush wrote:
         | I feel like the two types of dishwasher people are clearly
         | delineated by those who have and have not watched the
         | Technology Connections videos on dishwashers.
         | 
         | 1. Powdered detergent people who sprinkle some soap in for the
         | prewash
         | 
         | 2. Tab people who attest that they need to pre-rinse their
         | dishes before they put them in the dishwasher
        
           | conradludgate wrote:
           | How about a third :)
           | 
           | I've seen the technology connections video, continue to use
           | pods, and continue not to pre-rinse the dishes
        
             | code_biologist wrote:
             | Many types... I've seen the Technology Connections video
             | and use whatever, mostly liquid detergent. After running a
             | few experiments and coming away unimpressed, I've kept on
             | pre-rinsing.
        
             | from-nibly wrote:
             | There are two types of PEOPLE, there's lots of different
             | animals /jk
        
           | rainsford wrote:
           | I've seen the video and tried switching from pods (which I
           | assume is the same thing as a tab, just never heard that name
           | before) to powder with some power in the prewash compartment
           | without prerinsing the dishes.
           | 
           | Other's results may vary, but I found my dishwasher would
           | eventually get clogged with the TC approach, even though I
           | clean the filter regularly and wasn't putting in dishes with
           | absurd amounts of food still on them. Since I switched back
           | to pods and prerinsing, the clogging went away. Maybe my
           | dishwasher or the install has something goofy about it, but
           | it was definitely a failed experiment for me. Although I
           | still think the TC argument is a solid one in theory.
        
             | mystified5016 wrote:
             | Some brands like Cascade produce solid compressed powder
             | tablets. Same general concept as the pods, just no fluid
             | load or pouch
        
           | bradfa wrote:
           | I'm a Bosch dishwasher powder soap with some in the bottom
           | for presoak but still pre-rinse type person. Clean the filter
           | once a month (takes 2 minutes literally) use jet dry (or
           | equivalent) and I have zero complaints about how my 20 year
           | old dishwasher performs!
        
             | vondur wrote:
             | I too have a Bosch dishwasher and use powdered soap. I also
             | add in some citric acid to help with the really hard water
             | we have in my area. I pre-rinse everything though.
        
         | relwin wrote:
         | Best advice from TC: verify the water is hot before starting
         | the dishwasher. Especially if your water heater is located a
         | ways from your kitchen and the pipes aren't well insulated.
        
           | spiffyk wrote:
           | Not sure why you were downvoted. This sounds like absolutely
           | crucial advice for people in countries where dishwashers
           | don't heat the water on their own. I've never seen one like
           | that in my life, but yeah, sounds important.
        
             | gwbas1c wrote:
             | When the dishwasher has to heat the water, it's slower than
             | from the water heater.
             | 
             | That's because heating water from the 120 volt circuit that
             | the dishwasher runs on is slow. (At least in North America,
             | 240 volt countries might not have this issue.)
        
               | reaperducer wrote:
               | _(At least in North America, 240 volt countries might not
               | have this issue.)_
               | 
               | Central America, parts of South America, Japan, and
               | Taiwan are also ~110 volt.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_countr
               | y#/...
        
           | ac29 wrote:
           | I wonder how much this really matters. For me my dishwasher
           | is far enough from the hot water heater that it generally
           | takes several gallons for the water to run hot. But the wash
           | cycle is 2+ hours long and uses very minimal water (~3
           | gallons/cycle). Even if I preheated the lines using the tap
           | near the washer, it wouldnt even be lukewarm by the end of
           | the wash cycle.
        
             | ThrowawayTestr wrote:
             | My dishes have gotten a lot cleaner since I started running
             | the tap.
        
               | moshegramovsky wrote:
               | Trying this tonight.
        
             | rainsford wrote:
             | I think the most crucial factor is that the initial pre-
             | rinse cycle is usually relatively short, so pre-heating the
             | water means that cycle is done with hot water. My
             | dishwasher at least starts out rinsing for maybe 15-20
             | minutes before draining and refilling the tub. I also think
             | there is likely some effect in that the main cleaning cycle
             | will at least start out with hot tap water.
        
             | lolinder wrote:
             | I recently moved into a home where the previous tenants
             | told us they didn't use the dishwasher because it didn't
             | actually clean the dishes. Having seen TC, I checked the
             | kitchen tap and sure enough it behaved like yours: it took
             | a good 60 seconds to get hot.
             | 
             | We started using the dishwasher on day 1 with TC's pre-
             | heated water tip and have yet to have a single problem with
             | the dishwasher.
        
             | DiggyJohnson wrote:
             | The first cycle in the wash is where the hot water makes
             | the biggest difference.
        
             | milesrout wrote:
             | 2+ hours long??? Surely you're exaggerating
        
               | bombela wrote:
               | My generic GE dishwasher defaults to a few hours, it
               | feels closer to 4h than 2h. There is also an overnight
               | mode that seems to take almost 8h. And then a quick wash
               | mode that takes 1h.
        
           | gwbas1c wrote:
           | The best way to do that... Pre-rinse!!!
        
             | lolinder wrote:
             | Pre-rinsing uses _way_ more water than is typically
             | necessary just to get the water hot, especially given that
             | to be an effective pre-rinse you 're going to want the
             | water to be hot already before you even start.
        
             | BeetleB wrote:
             | Don't. I used to do it till I read an article telling me
             | not to do that.
             | 
             | Remove solid gunk. Load dishwasher. _Make sure you have
             | Rinse-aid in the dishwasher_. Run. Done. Comes out clean.
        
               | OutOfHere wrote:
               | Rinse aids are toxic substances that will harm your
               | stomach.
        
               | dole wrote:
               | previous hn article and discussion: "Gut epithelial
               | barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse
               | aids (sciencedirect.com)"
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38275060
        
               | AStonesThrow wrote:
               | [delayed]
        
               | nonchalantsui wrote:
               | There is no research that states such. Most online
               | articles are referencing a study done on professional
               | dishwashers, in which they complete their task within 2
               | minutes and some rinse aid was still found on the dishes.
               | 
               | Home dishwashers, the ones that take 4 hours on average,
               | are not going to result in the same thing. Claiming such
               | would be like claiming you won't use dish soap since
               | technically it can still be left on your dishes when
               | quickly washed.
        
           | robocat wrote:
           | Cold water only connection for all dishwashers I've seen in
           | New Zealand. Dishwashers have an internal heating element.
           | 
           | Are modern US dishwashers plumbed into hot water?
           | 
           | NZ has 240 Volts (10 Amp 2400 Watt appliances are normal -
           | anything above that needs special wiring). And NZ
           | environmental regulations might be involved too (modern
           | washing machines can be crappy because they try to skimp on
           | water usage - our regulations can be overkill).
        
             | BeetleB wrote:
             | Yes - over the last decade or so they removed the heating
             | element in most US dishwashers. So they either are
             | connected to the hot water line, or have a mechanism to
             | heat the water (or both).
        
               | enragedcacti wrote:
               | I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that even today
               | almost all US dishwashers have some mechanism to heat the
               | water, just maybe not the giant exposed element in the
               | bottom like older ones. Water out of the tap is going to
               | be on the low end of usable dish-washing temps at the
               | very beginning of a cycle, let alone 45+ minutes later.
        
             | netsharc wrote:
             | Is it still possible to plumb hot water into such
             | dishwashers? Then the heating element have less work...
        
           | ludicrousdispla wrote:
           | I can't recall ever using a dishwasher that had a connection
           | to the hot water line.
        
             | crazygringo wrote:
             | I've never had one that _wasn 't_ connected to the hot
             | water line.
             | 
             | If you've got both available, I can't see any reason why
             | you'd choose to hook it up to cold. That just means it
             | takes longer for your dishwasher to heat up.
        
           | neilfrndes wrote:
           | For me, moving away from pods to a dishwasher liquid (cascade
           | 3x from Costco) made the most difference. I add some liquid
           | in the prewash and some in the main compartment. I had to
           | figure out the right amount to add in each via trial and
           | error. I don't pre rinse or run the hot water beforehand, my
           | dishes come out clean.
        
             | Loughla wrote:
             | We had to switch from pods to liquid because the pods make
             | way too many suds, so the emergency float shut off was
             | getting stuck.
             | 
             | Source; that time I replaced my fucking dishwasher because
             | I couldn't figure out why it kept leaking so much
             | everywhere.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | I can't decide if it would be cool to live next door to him or
         | if I'd never get anything done ever again.
        
         | mjamesaustin wrote:
         | Welp, thank you for that. About to use my dishwasher for the
         | first time since childhood.
        
         | chewbacha wrote:
         | You know, the hot water tip is great, but cleaning the filter
         | is really the best thing I've found to keeping it working well.
         | Residue always seems to indicate a dirty filter.
        
           | lolinder wrote:
           | I think it depends on the kind of residue. If we're just
           | talking about caked-on stuff that you recognize that didn't
           | wash off, I'd start with hot water and adding the pre-wash
           | powder. But if you get stuff on your dishes that you _don 't_
           | recognize... yeah, that's a filter.
           | 
           | I once stayed with family at a vacation rental where the
           | dishwasher left things worse than we put them in--a thick
           | gray residue plastered over everything. We were going to be
           | there for a week with 30 people, which meant we had a _lot_
           | of dishwashing to do, but by the time I became aware of it
           | the rest of the family had already given up on it and had
           | started washing dishes by hand.
           | 
           | I took one look at the output and knew immediately what was
           | wrong thanks to TC. An hour later (it was that bad) the
           | dishwasher was working flawlessly and we saved hours in
           | dishwashing time over the week.
           | 
           | (We also told the rental owners that their cleaners weren't
           | taking care of the dishwasher. I didn't ask for them to pay
           | me for the time, but I probably should have!)
        
             | chewbacha wrote:
             | I'm mostly referring to my own dishwasher which I use all
             | the time and understand. But for a long time I never
             | cleaned the filter and then one day I did and suddenly
             | everything made sense.
             | 
             | The filter can also clog up and a layer of water will form
             | above it which can impede the rotation of the sprayers and
             | then it really doesn't work well.
        
       | dfxm12 wrote:
       | I used to be uptight about how to load the dishwater until I put
       | away a load that was packed by my partner, "like a raccoon on
       | meth", and noticed there wasn't a difference in the cleanliness.
       | 
       | Now I just worry about buying new bowls. Will the bowls fit
       | nicely given pitch and angle of the of the dealies on the rack?
       | The bowls I inherited from my grandmother fit so nicely in any
       | dishwasher I've loaded them into, but now they're starting to
       | crack...
        
         | danielparks wrote:
         | Similarly, I used to stress about loading the dishwasher when I
         | was a teen. I would spend so much time loading it that I have
         | myself a neck ache from leaning over and I could have saved
         | time by washing the dishes by hand.
         | 
         | I still try to be somewhat efficient about loading the
         | dishwasher, but... if I notice myself stressing I just say
         | "screw it", run it, and wash the rest by hand.
         | 
         | The other thing I've realized is that sometimes things don't
         | get clean if you load them properly. For example, tall glasses
         | that had smoothies in them. It's a little gross if you don't
         | notice it until you're about to use it, but... you can just
         | look at them and wash them by hand when you unload the
         | dishwasher.
         | 
         | I guess this is all to say that sometimes the best optimization
         | is to not think about it too much.
        
         | taeric wrote:
         | I view it as an area where diminishing returns are almost as
         | soon as you get started. Using a dish washer is already getting
         | a TON of work done for me that I would otherwise have to do.
         | Trying to squeeze any extra from it is kind of silly. I'll
         | always have to run it some more tomorrow.
        
         | spiffytech wrote:
         | Some things won't matter, some will. I think it's changed over
         | time as dishwashers and detergents got better.
         | 
         | The article mentions that newer detergents do better with
         | unrinsed dishes. And I remember a commercial about a dishwasher
         | that could eat a cake. My old model sure couldn't do that! If I
         | wasn't careful I'd find hunks of food sitting inside after it
         | ran. It also used to be that putting thin tupperware on the
         | bottom rack was a sure way to melt it. Now I can't remember the
         | last time that happened to me.
         | 
         | Things that used to provably matter... now don't.
         | 
         | On the other hand, I have a family member who loads the spoons
         | in a big pile, and they stick together and don't get clean. Or,
         | I had roommates who kept putting my good knives in the
         | dishwasher, and the finish got ruined. That stuff still
         | matters.
         | 
         | I like the article's conclusion: we can just get the answers,
         | and update our knowledge. We don't have to treat this like a
         | pre-internet argument, where we just went in circles repeating
         | heresay.
        
           | hbsbsbsndk wrote:
           | When I was cleaning my dishwasher I realized there are two
           | ways to configure it: with a in-sink garbage disposal, and
           | without. If you don't have the garbage disposal part hooked
           | up there is simply nowhere for the chunks to go and they
           | accumulate at the bottom of the washer beneath a filter.
        
           | anon7000 wrote:
           | Another example is plates tall enough to block the top
           | spinner. Or plates pressed together so much that water can't
           | get in between.
        
         | hinkley wrote:
         | What I notice is that the dishes and glasses don't chip when I
         | put them in and I do when anyone else does. Don't matter if
         | there are more clean dishes per load if they're broken, people.
        
           | stevenAthompson wrote:
           | You are thinking like someone who buys the dishes, rather
           | than someone who wants the person who buys the dishes to get
           | off their case about it so they can do something more
           | interesting.
        
         | stronglikedan wrote:
         | The only trick is to not block anything from the water, or a
         | direct reflection of it. Other than that, it's a free-for-all.
        
         | Swizec wrote:
         | > I used to be uptight about how to load the dishwater until I
         | put away a load that was packed by my partner, "like a raccoon
         | on meth", and noticed there wasn't a difference in the
         | cleanliness.
         | 
         | My partner loads the dishwasher like a raccoon on meth. I do it
         | like a software engineer who's been thinking about The One True
         | Way To Organize Things for decades.
         | 
         | Cleanliness is fine either way. But I really hate that she
         | can't fit a full day's worth of dishes in there so I have to do
         | an extra load later.
        
           | raffraffraff wrote:
           | That's the real difference. I'm playing Tetris, and getting
           | an amazing score. She's leaving a bunch of stuff on the side
           | for the next cycle, or hand washing them.
        
             | jeffrallen wrote:
             | Crushing the high score here too. Just recently got an
             | entire line of colored kids plastic glasses on the top
             | rack, I swear it made a do-do-do tone when I stopped that
             | last cup in there. :)
        
           | grepLeigh wrote:
           | On the other side of this argument, I've seen "just run the
           | dishwasher twice" used as shorthand for giving yourself
           | permission to do whatever is needed to get the job done and
           | not letting perfectionism paralyze you from making progress.
           | 
           | This blog excerpt explains the idea [1]:
           | 
           | > Knowing this week was going to be a lot, I've been living
           | by "run the dishwasher twice". What the hell does that even
           | mean?! Essentially it means to do whatever is the path of
           | least resistance to get shit done. The advice came from a
           | therapist to a woman who was feeling very low & was
           | struggling with everyday tasks such as doing the dishes. She
           | didn't have the mental capacity to scrub dishes before
           | putting them in her crappy dishwasher so she wasn't doing
           | them & they were building up & causing her more anxiety. Her
           | therapist said not to rinse the dishes & just run the
           | dishwasher twice, even three times if that's what it took to
           | get them clean. It was a game-changer for her, one that
           | enabled her to do a small task in an imperfect way just to
           | get it done.
           | 
           | I wish the OP article had dug a little bit deeper into the
           | psychology behind daily task conflict in relationships. The
           | dishwasher is one of many microcosms (laundry, car, pets,
           | etc) that I wish I'd paid more attention to in my
           | relationships, because these conversations really do reveal
           | relationship dynamics around HUGE issues like compromise,
           | empathy, perfectionism, and judgmental behavior.
           | 
           | [1] https://thebackfenceblog.wordpress.com/2021/08/27/run-
           | the-di...
        
             | milesrout wrote:
             | This is lazy and wasteful. The last thing people today need
             | is to "give themselves permission" (what does that even
             | mean?) to be even lazier and more wasteful than they
             | already are.
             | 
             | And of course it comes from someone's "therapist". Living
             | in America really does sound like living in a horrible
             | hollywood movie.
        
               | xvokcarts wrote:
               | One shouldn't ever be anxious about such things as being
               | wasteful. Mindful, sure, but not anxious - being anxious
               | about such things is actually a pretty good reason for
               | therapy.
        
             | Swizec wrote:
             | > On the other side of this argument, I've seen "just run
             | the dishwasher twice" used as shorthand for giving yourself
             | permission to do whatever is needed to get the job done and
             | not letting perfectionism paralyze you from making
             | progress.
             | 
             | We've found that if we can't do a 10min tasks once, we
             | won't do it twice either. We'll do dishes tomorrow. It's
             | fine.
             | 
             | I used to try the do-a-little-whenever method when I was
             | single and the only outcome was that I spent all day every
             | day dealing with dishes _and_ had a constantly dirty
             | kitchen.
        
           | mystified5016 wrote:
           | For some reason my husband insists on using the "1 hour speed
           | wash" setting and can't figure out why dishes are coming out
           | still dirty...
        
         | harrall wrote:
         | I like to re-try everything a new way occasionally even if I've
         | been doing it one way for 20 years.
        
         | airstrike wrote:
         | IMHO the main advantage of neatly loading dishes neatly is that
         | unloading becomes a 60 second exercise as opposed to a 5 minute
         | one. It's not so much that I don't have 5 minutes to spare, but
         | my back appreciates it if I can get it done quicker. I get 4
         | plates with each hand, silverware is already sorted neatly...
         | it's just overall a better experience.
         | 
         | In other words, even if you believe the time taken to sort is
         | identical whether you do it loading or unloading, the
         | difference is if you do it while loading you divide that task
         | into many smaller tasks instead of doing one big sorting task
         | on unloading.
        
         | DiggyJohnson wrote:
         | > dealies
         | 
         | Not often so I learn a new 5 letter word. I have the same issue
         | with trying to get rid of the fiestaware from my childhood home
         | my mom gave me when I graduated college. It just fits right.
        
       | mutagen wrote:
       | An elderly friend of mine who lives alone keeps his most used
       | dishes in the dishwasher. Need a clean dish? Find one in there.
       | Have a dirty dish? Put it in the dishwasher? Can't find a clean
       | dish? Run the dishwasher.
       | 
       | Maybe not quite efficient from a water/energy/soap perspective.
       | But efficient for his time and attention.
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | Convenience is the root of all evil.
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | What we really need is the double-wide or triple-wide dishwasher.
       | If everything fits in one load, you're always all clean in the
       | morning and all dirty in the evening. Now it's just a daily habit
       | of putting things away in the morning and popping things in after
       | you're done eating each meal.
        
         | 331c8c71 wrote:
         | You're American right?;)
        
           | dan353hehe wrote:
           | We would probably call it a "freedom"washer though.
        
         | stevenAthompson wrote:
         | Why don't we just build the dishwasher into the cabinets? Then
         | putting them away and washing them is the same chore.
        
         | tomatocracy wrote:
         | How about just keeping two dishwashers? One starts full of
         | clean stuff and you use it like a cupboard, taking stuff out of
         | it as you use it. The other starts empty and you add stuff to
         | it after using it until you have transferred everything from
         | one to the other. Then you run the full one and start again.
        
           | RandallBrown wrote:
           | I saw this "hack" on instagram or something and if I ever get
           | a kitchen big enough for two dishwashers I fully plan on
           | doing this.
        
           | masto wrote:
           | Ours is a Fisher & Paykel dual dishdrawer, which does exactly
           | that, in the space of a single unit.
        
           | folmar wrote:
           | Doesn't really need two dishwashers, just two set of racks
           | and a cupboard that can accommodate the other set.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | Please. It's welcome that compared to fridges dishwashers are
         | pretty standardized.
         | 
         | But I am a bit surprised that more people who entertain a lot
         | don't have two dishwashers. But they probably have staff for
         | that in many cases.
        
       | 1970-01-01 wrote:
       | >Bringing any kind of technology into these sacred spaces saves
       | time, but it can also alienate us from the labor of caring for
       | those we love. Maybe this is why so many people don't trust,
       | don't use, or want to command their dishwashers. "The strong
       | opinions associated with how to do it could be people trying to
       | retain some semblance of control in a world where technological
       | devices are doing things so much for us," Janning said of the
       | dishwasher. "I do wonder if there's a little bit of fear of
       | losing the humanity associated with our domestic lives."
       | 
       | If you want to observe the world as a pro-dishwasher person does,
       | replace the word 'dishwasher' above with 'toilet'. We see
       | dishwashers as objects that serve us so well, that the
       | alternative choice is fairly disgusting by modern standards.
        
         | teamonkey wrote:
         | Or a bidet...
        
       | ReptileMan wrote:
       | Okay - here is the deal. If it not water soluble or emulusifiable
       | - it goes in the bin. No wood or knives, aluminium only the
       | pieces you don't care. Order them so any piece has at least some
       | waterflow and arms spin. Small stuff - top basket. Throw some
       | detergent in the container and a dash outside for the pre rinse
       | cycle. Here is the most important part - ignore the auto/eco and
       | other planet saving or smart programs. Put it on big pots and
       | pans heavily soiled - instead of 60C those programs operate on 75
       | to 80C degrees. If you can't fit everything in one go - the sink
       | makes good temporary storage area.
       | 
       | You have to special kind of person to obsess over dishwasher.
        
         | Marsymars wrote:
         | > Here is the most important part - ignore the auto/eco and
         | other planet saving or smart programs.
         | 
         | I've never had any problems with cleanliness with either the
         | "normal" or "energy saver" modes on my dishwasher. (For that
         | matter "energy saver" on mine trades more water for less energy
         | - which given the cost for the energy/water is a good deal for
         | me.)
        
       | cpursley wrote:
       | There's actually a 3rd type that I discovered while house
       | sitting: people who load their knives pointy side up. Absolutely
       | insanity.
        
         | lupusreal wrote:
         | I've had so many fights about this. _" They wash better, just
         | be careful!"_ Absolute insanity is right.
        
         | omnibrain wrote:
         | Buying a dishwasher with a third rack right at the top for
         | cutlery fixes that.
        
         | cubefox wrote:
         | I do this, but I'm also against pointy knives. There is no
         | reason for a knife to be pointy unless you are a professional
         | knife thrower.
        
         | vt240 wrote:
         | This is a mistake you only make once. Lesson learned when I put
         | a boning knife through my arm in the dish rack one day. Cost me
         | a trip in the ambulance. Absolute insanity- correct! I don't
         | even know how it got in there with the rest of the utensils.
         | But I triple check the sink now.
        
         | saxelsen wrote:
         | I don't understand what's wrong with this.
         | 
         | The handle is typically loaded so that it weighs a lot more
         | than the blade, which means they're likely fall out of the
         | basket if they're blade down.
         | 
         | Also: blade down, you can't tell which ones are the knives
         | unless you _only_ do knives blade down (but forks and spoons
         | handle down), which seems even more insanity to me..!!
        
           | crazygringo wrote:
           | Dishwasher utensil baskets have compartments tall and narrow
           | enough that the knife is not going to fall out. I haven't had
           | that happen _ever_ in my life. Even with heavy handles. (If
           | it 's as large as a chef's knife, however, that lies down
           | flat in the upper rack.)
           | 
           | And yes, you do only knives down. If you did spoons and forks
           | down it would be too crowded at the bottom. I don't know why
           | only knives down seems like insanity to you?
           | 
           | I mean, I'm glad you've never sliced your hand on a thin
           | paring knife sticking up at an angle that makes the blade
           | virtually invisible. But hey, it's your hand you're risking,
           | not mine...
        
         | philsnow wrote:
         | Why are pointy knives going in the dishwasher, though?
        
       | wesleyd wrote:
       | Hell is other people's dishwasher organization strategies.
        
       | antisthenes wrote:
       | I just wash dishes by hand while I wait fo the kettle to boil for
       | my after-food cup of tea.
       | 
       | It's therapeutic, takes a few minutes, and makes me conscious of
       | how many dishes I should be using (e.g. as few as possible). If I
       | have to pre-rinse dishes for the dishwasher, I might as well just
       | rinse it fully then and there.
        
         | ThrowawayTestr wrote:
         | You don't need to pre-rinse.
        
       | 1024core wrote:
       | I have heard that there are "commercial" dishwashers which can
       | clean a load of dishes in under 20 minutes. Is that true? Has
       | anyone tried one of them?
        
         | pesus wrote:
         | I worked at a Pizza Hut in college that had one that washed a
         | full load of dishes in just a few minutes. I'm blanking on the
         | exact time, but I'm almost certain it was under 10 minutes. It
         | got extremely hot, so it probably wouldn't work for a lot of
         | dishes people have at home, but it was very efficient! We saved
         | at least a few hours of labor a day from it, and an
         | unquantifiable amount of sanity.
         | 
         | It wasn't designed like a normal home dishwasher, it was open
         | on all sides and you would slide a rack of dishes under the top
         | part of it, pull a lever, and the dishwasher walls would come
         | down around it and start the washing.
        
         | parliament32 wrote:
         | More like 90-120s. There's the type that close from the top
         | (expensive) and the conveyor type (more expensive), but they're
         | incredibly fast, mostly because they blast near-boiling water
         | at pressure-washer velocities. They also don't typically have a
         | "drying" cycle -- because the dishes are so superheated they
         | dry themselves in another half minute. Downside is no plastics
         | or anything else meltable. See
         | https://www.cafemutfak.com/en/blog/content/industrial-dishwa...
        
         | morsch wrote:
         | I used a commercial dishwasher in an Airbnb that had the
         | fittings for a catering operation. It had an initial heat up
         | time of like twenty minutes, after that each cycle of dishes
         | took like... two minutes? Maybe five.
         | 
         | But it was much worse at actually cleaning dishes than a
         | regular home dishwasher. I never prerinse at home, but you
         | really had to with this thing. Maybe it was just crap, but some
         | searching around it seems like that's just how they're designed
         | to operate.
         | 
         | Anyway they use a shit-ton of power and energy (wired for 5 KW,
         | 2-3 kWh per cycle), they're loud, it's not something you'd want
         | in your home kitchen.
        
         | buildbot wrote:
         | Yep, I've only volunteered in commercial kitchens for events
         | and stuff before, and the ones I've been in have essentially an
         | assembly line for dishes from sinks to a dishwasher box that
         | took 2-3 plastic cubes of dishes, and washed them in like, 5
         | minutes. No drying though.
        
         | Symbiote wrote:
         | I've used the type that are common in bars/pubs/nightclubs in
         | the UK and Denmark. They take 20 minutes or so to heat the
         | water, then each cycle is just 2 minutes or so. The glasses are
         | loaded on trays, so it's best to have a place to load up a tray
         | and another for them to cool down.
         | 
         | This kind of thing:
         | https://www.buzzcateringsupplies.com/classeq-c500-gw-glasswa...
         | 
         | I've also used one three times as wide in a small food factory
         | for cleaning equipment, mixing bowls and so on. This was even
         | more powerful, and could clean greasy pots and bowls quickly.
         | It was hot and steamy while unloading it.
         | 
         | Like this: https://www.buzzcateringsupplies.com/mach-utensil-
         | washer-130...
         | 
         | There's probably something in between for restaurants
         | 
         | Presumably this: https://www.buzzcateringsupplies.com/classeq-
         | pass-through-di...
         | 
         | And something like this for somewhere huge, maybe a large
         | school or office:
         | https://www.buzzcateringsupplies.com/warewashing/commercial-...
        
         | Someone1234 wrote:
         | Sure, but you'd need to be quite dedicated to install one in a
         | home:
         | 
         | - They're 3-phase, 220-volt.
         | 
         | - They cannot use PVC or other plastics for drainage lines
         | because the water is too hot.
         | 
         | - The high temperature steam can damage surroundings unless
         | designed for it.
         | 
         | - They're very loud.
         | 
         | They'll wash in e.g. 90-seconds, but the dishes are too hot to
         | handle for a bit. Plus some residential kitchenware cannot
         | handle the high heat of a commercial dishwasher.
         | 
         | You'll likely never see a commercial dishwasher in a
         | residential home.
        
         | adammarples wrote:
         | Yes they're in every restaurant
        
       | masto wrote:
       | I'm surprised this Jon Richardson bit hasn't been posted already.
       | It's an incredible piece of comedy, even moreso given that it's
       | about loading the dishwasher.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ymh8o6GI_g
        
       | AcerbicZero wrote:
       | If I don't like how the dishwasher did, I just run it again.
       | Either the plates are coming out clean, or I'm buying new plates.
        
       | satisfice wrote:
       | I refuse to use a dishwasher. I don't think it makes anything
       | faster or better. When I was a child in the seventies my
       | household chore was loading the dishwasher, but my mom always
       | said I did it wrong.
       | 
       | It doesn't matter, Mom. It's fine as it is. But you know what?
       | How about I never use a dishwasher again for my entire life?
       | Deal? Deal!
       | 
       | My wife likes them, though. It looks to me that she is washing
       | the dishes before "using the dishwasher," so I don't understand
       | what she thinks she is gaining by it.
       | 
       | Dishwashers promote delusions.
        
         | tombert wrote:
         | Everyone always says that they can "wash dishes faster than the
         | washer", and maybe that's true, but loading the dishwasher
         | takes like five minutes of active effort, then you're done. It
         | might take three hours to finish washing them but you're not
         | involved.
         | 
         | If you only have a few dishes, then sure washing by hands is
         | fast enough, but if you let it pile up on the sink for several
         | days, it can be a fairly long process, on the order of 30-45
         | minutes if things are really stuck on there.
         | 
         | When I bought my house in 2018, it didn't have a dishwasher. We
         | had to wash dishes by hand, and it changed our entire
         | psychology. I was hesitant to cook anything in the kitchen
         | because it would generate dishes and I don't like washing
         | dishes, so we ended up mostly surviving on low-effort frozen
         | food.
         | 
         | In 2021, we had the kitchen remodeled, and in the process we
         | installed a dishwasher, and it made it fun to cook again. I
         | could use a lot more dishes and utensils in the process, and
         | the effort to clean up doesn't change significantly.
         | 
         | At this point I don't think I will live in a place that doesn't
         | have a dishwasher ever again.
        
       | cjohnson318 wrote:
       | I'm the sloppy person at home, but I hate seeing dirty dishes, so
       | I do the dishes. I squeeze every bit of space out of the
       | dishwasher. There is One Right Way to do it. That said, if
       | someone throws dishes in there willy nilly, I couldn't care less,
       | as long as it gets done. It's basically Postel's Law: be liberal
       | in what you accept, and conservative in what you send/do.
        
       | ggm wrote:
       | Dishwasher testing needs material analogues to:
       | 
       | 1) gritty pulse material dried on, with potato starch
       | 
       | 2) egg white, egg yolk, and cooked mixed egg, dried on
       | 
       | 3) dried on avocado
       | 
       | 4) finely chopped leaf herb, which floats in soapy water.
        
       | renewiltord wrote:
       | In my family, this is my primary responsibility (it just so
       | landed that way) and to be honest, it's not really that hard. I
       | didn't even grow up with one and found it trivial to identify the
       | things that the article says:
       | 
       | - find the spray arms and make sure they can hit the dirty
       | surface
       | 
       | - ensure no bowl is concave up against gravity (water will
       | collect)
       | 
       | - ensure everything is stable
       | 
       | - nothing that can block meshes should be on the dish when it
       | goes in
       | 
       | None of this requires intelligence. It just requires looking at
       | the machine and figuring it out. Once a little bit of plastic
       | broke on one of the trays and it blocked the drain and it was
       | trivial to figure out: see that water is stagnant, google the
       | error code, attempt force drain, then reach for the drain filter
       | and remove the clog. Ultimately, it's just a machine. The intake
       | comes from the same water as the sink and the egress is above the
       | garbage disposal.
       | 
       | Apart from that I just make sure all the things are active when
       | it's ready to go: pod in the tray, rinse-aid in that section.
       | 
       | We have one of the quiet ones, which is nice, but also is a bit
       | annoying since the only way to know if it is active is if it is
       | displaying a red light on the floor. I'd prefer a front LED
       | display. And I prefer just turning it off to run it.
       | 
       | My wife loads it haphazardly, and I load it a certain way but
       | neither she nor I have any trouble with outcomes because while it
       | may be complex functioning, the user awareness is restricted to
       | those few levers.
       | 
       | The one annoyance is that we have these bowl dishes and they
       | don't stand up like flat dishes. I'm sure there is an alternative
       | tray holder that can do those but I haven't gotten around to
       | replacing.
        
       | spelunker wrote:
       | We recently had someone at our house to repair our dishwasher,
       | because we suddenly started hearing a horrible grinding sound
       | when closing the door.
       | 
       | Apparently we had bent one of the hinges! How? By overloading the
       | bottom rack too many times. His advice was to load it ~50% LESS
       | than we were. And don't pull the bottom rack out all the way when
       | it's fully-loaded.
       | 
       | I can't tell if this is like general dishwasher advice, or our GE
       | is a POS.
        
         | bruckie wrote:
         | I think probably the latter. Either that, or your dishes are
         | made out of tungsten or something. (If so, I'd love to see your
         | dish collection. That would be rad.)
        
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