[HN Gopher] OpenAI is building a social network?
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       OpenAI is building a social network?
        
       Author : noleary
       Score  : 295 points
       Date   : 2025-04-15 16:08 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
        
       | jsnider3 wrote:
       | With all the other social networks trying to keep their data
       | private because they all want to try their own AIs, it makes
       | sense that OpenAI would want to have its own social network that
       | wouldn't charge them for the data. I still doubt they actually
       | launch it.
        
       | bhouston wrote:
       | I've always thought that the social networks like X and BlueSky
       | are sort of like the distributed consciousness of society. It is
       | what society, as a whole / in aggregate, is currently thinking
       | about and knowing its ebbs and flows and what it responds to are
       | important if you want to have up to date AI.
       | 
       | So yeah, AI integrated with a popular social network is valuable.
        
         | ahartmetz wrote:
         | Social networks tend to reflect the character of their
         | founders. Do you _really_ want to see what Sam Altman can do?
        
           | bhouston wrote:
           | > Social networks tend to reflect the character of their
           | founders.
           | 
           | I would say "owners" rather than "founders", but I agree with
           | you. I think Sam Altman's couldn't be worse than Elon Musk's
           | X, no?
        
             | daqhris wrote:
             | Both are founders of a so-called non-profit and are suing
             | each other. Their legal arguments are public at this point.
             | By reading them, one may understand that it's hard to
             | choose between 'yes' and 'no' as an answer. Maybe, we could
             | request and take into account the opinion of what they
             | 'created' that might outlast them and their conflict,
             | namely AI.
        
             | ahartmetz wrote:
             | I don't use X neither. Looks like it won't be around for
             | much longer anyway, except as American Pravda (even though
             | "Truth" Social already exists).
        
           | newaccountlol wrote:
           | Make sure to hide your little sisters from it.
        
       | beloch wrote:
       | >One idea behind the OpenAI social prototype, we've heard, is to
       | have AI help people share better content. "The Grok integration
       | with X has made everyone jealous," says someone working at
       | another big AI lab. "Especially how people create viral tweets by
       | getting it to say something stupid."
       | 
       | This would be a decent PR stunt, but would such a platform offer
       | anything of value?
       | 
       | It might be more valuable to set AI to the task of making the
       | most _human_ social platform out there. Right now, Facebook,
       | TikTok, Reddit, etc. are all rife with bots, spam, and generative
       | AI junk. Finding good content in this sea of noise is becoming
       | increasingly difficult. A social media platform that uses AI to
       | filter out spam, bots, and other AI with the goal of making human
       | content easy to access might really catch on. Set a thief to
       | catch thieves.
       | 
       | Who are we kidding. It's going to be Will Smith eating spaghetti
       | all the way down.
        
         | add-sub-mul-div wrote:
         | No, nothing of value. If you ever want to lose faith in the
         | future of humanity search "@grok" on Twitter and look at all
         | the interactions people have with it. Just total infantilism,
         | people needing tl;drs spoon-fed to them, needing summarization
         | and one-word answers because they don't want to read, arguing
         | with it or whining to Musk if they don't get the answer they
         | want to confirm what they already believe.
        
           | Centigonal wrote:
           | the worst is like a dozen people in the replies to a post
           | asking Grok the exact same obvious follow-up question.
           | Somehow, having access to an LLM has completely annihilated
           | these commenters' ability to scroll down 50 pixels.
        
           | rudedogg wrote:
           | I bookmarked this example where it is confidently incorrect
           | about a movie frame/screenshot:
           | 
           | https://x.com/Pee159604/status/1909445730697462080
        
             | exodust wrote:
             | Your example doesn't appear to contain a reply from grok,
             | only a question.
        
               | input_sh wrote:
               | It does, you just can't see it without logging in because
               | Twitter is shit now.
               | 
               | https://xcancel.com/Pee159604/status/1909445730697462080
        
           | golergka wrote:
           | > people needing tl;drs spoon-fed to them, needing
           | summarization and one-word answers because they don't want to
           | read
           | 
           | It's bad that this need exists. However, introducing this
           | feature did not create the need. And if this need exists,
           | fulfilling it is still better, because otherwise these kind
           | of people wouldn't get this information at all.
        
             | _Algernon_ wrote:
             | This is worse because the AI slop is full of hallucinations
             | which they will now confidently parrot. No way in hell does
             | this type of person verify or even think critically about
             | what the LLMs tell them. No information is better than bad
             | information. Less information while practicing the ability
             | to critically use it is better than bad information in
             | excess.
        
           | a_bonobo wrote:
           | All decent people I know have deleted their Twitter accounts
           | - the kind of people you now see on twitter in the mentions
           | are... not good people.
        
           | exodust wrote:
           | > _needing summarization_
           | 
           | Before we get too excited with disparaging those seeking
           | summaries, it's common for people of all levels to want
           | summary information. It doesn't mean they want everything
           | summarized or are bad people.
           | 
           | I'm not particularly interested in "tariffs, what are they
           | good for, what's the history and examples good or bad"... so
           | I asked for a summary from grok. It gave me a decent summary.
           | Concise and structured. I asked a few follow-ups, then went
           | on with my life knowing a little more than nothing about
           | tariffs. A win for summarized information.
        
           | huvarda wrote:
           | "@gork explain this tweet"
        
         | ein0p wrote:
         | You also can get Grok to fact check bullshit by tagging @grok
         | and asking it a question about a post. Unfortunately this is
         | not realtime as it can sometimes take up to an hour to respond,
         | but I've found it to be pretty level headed in its responses. I
         | use this feature often.
        
           | exodust wrote:
           | True. I see that too. It's a good addition to community
           | notes. It can correctly evaluate "partially true" posts and
           | those lacking details, so it's great at spotting cherry-
           | picked information.
        
         | dom96 wrote:
         | Why would AI be any better at filtering out spam than
         | developers have so far been with ML?
         | 
         | The only way to avoid spam is to actually make a social network
         | for humans, and the only way to do so is to verify each account
         | belongs to a single human. The only way I've found that this
         | can be done is by using passports[0].
         | 
         | 0 - https://onlyhumanhub.com
        
           | omneity wrote:
           | How do you handle binationals who might not have the same
           | details (or even name) on each of their passports?
        
             | sampullman wrote:
             | You can always get around identification requirements, for
             | example by purchasing a fake passport in this case. The
             | idea is to increase the cost/friction of doing so as much
             | as possible.
             | 
             | A fake ID is a lot harder to get your hands on than a new
             | email, burner phone, etc.
        
             | dom96 wrote:
             | 1 passport = one human
             | 
             | Yes, this does mean that dual nationals can have two
             | separate human accounts. But it's still better than an
             | infinite number of accounts, which is the case for social
             | networks right now.
        
           | dayvigo wrote:
           | So you have to just trust them to permanently delete the data
           | after verifying you?
        
           | edaemon wrote:
           | That's interesting. Is there a social network where you can
           | only connect with people you meet in real life?
        
             | kikoreis wrote:
             | (Stretching a definition of social network.)
             | 
             | Not strictly but Debian, where member inclusion is done
             | through an in person chain of trust process so you have
             | clusters of people who know each other offline as a basis.
             | 
             | Also, most WhatsApp contacts have been exchanged IRL, I
             | presume.
        
           | _heimdall wrote:
           | I've never been comfortable with this idea that people should
           | use their real identity online. Sure they can if they choose
           | to, but IMO it absolutely shouldn't be required or expected.
           | 
           | The idea that I would give a copy of my passport to a social
           | media company just to sign up, and that the social media
           | company has access to verify the validity of the passport
           | with the issuing government, just feels very wrong to me.
        
             | dom96 wrote:
             | I agree. That's why onlyhumanhub doesn't expect you to
             | share your name. The passport verification is there to
             | ensure you are a unique human, but the name of that human
             | is not stored.
             | 
             | I'm perfectly happy talking to someone without knowing
             | their real name. I just want to be more confident that
             | they're a unique human, and not just another sock puppet
             | account run by some Russian agent (or evil corporation)
             | trying to change people's beliefs at scale.
        
         | TheOtherHobbes wrote:
         | An interesting use for AI right now would be using it as a
         | gatekeeping filter, selecting social media for quality based on
         | customisable definitions of quality.
         | 
         | Using it as a filter instead of a generator would provide
         | information about which content has real social value, which
         | content doesn't, and what the many dimensions of "value" are.
         | 
         | The current maximalist "Use AI to generate as much as possible"
         | trend is the opposite of social intelligence.
        
           | falcor84 wrote:
           | It's a nice idea in principle, but would probably immediately
           | become a way by the admins to promote some views and
           | discourage others with the excuse of some opinions being of
           | lower quality.
        
             | _Algernon_ wrote:
             | That's what moderation is and is perfectly fine. Dang does
             | that here on HN and for good reason.
        
               | numpad0 wrote:
               | It's not moderation, for one thing it never will be used
               | with moderation.
        
           | petesergeant wrote:
           | I think that's right. Twitter without ads, showing you
           | content you _do_ want to see using some embeddings magic,
           | with decent blocking mechanisms, and not being run as a
           | personal mouthpiece by the world's most unpopular man ...
           | certainly not the worst idea.
        
         | timeon wrote:
         | > This would be a decent PR stunt, but would such a platform
         | offer anything of value?
         | 
         | Like all those start-ups that are on the 'mission' to save the
         | world with an app. Not sure if it is PR for users or VCs.
        
         | ceroxylon wrote:
         | Sam's last social media project included users verifying their
         | humanity, so there is hope that something like that slips into
         | the new platform.
        
       | numpad0 wrote:
       | A 4chan but images can be prompt generated? Makes sense.
       | Everything's going back to early 2000s, it seems.
        
       | kittikitti wrote:
       | I would try to make a platform like Deviantart or Tumblr except
       | OpenAI pays you to make good content that the AI is trained on.
        
         | malux85 wrote:
         | Nice in theory but don't know how practical it is to actually
         | do.
         | 
         | How do you define "good"? Theres obvious examples at the
         | extremes but a chasm of ambiguity between them.
         | 
         | How do you compute value? If an AI takes 200 million images to
         | train, wait let me write that out to get a better sense of the
         | number:
         | 
         | 200,000,000
         | 
         | Then what is the value of 1 image to it? Is it worth the 3
         | hours of human labour time put into creating it? Is it worth 1
         | hour of human labour time? Even at minimum wage? No, right?
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | You really think an OpenAI-sponsored social network is going to
         | attract people who create and share original content?
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | How do you stop people gaming this by feeding it the output of
         | other AIs?
         | 
         | (not to mention defining "good")
        
       | blitzar wrote:
       | This is just part of the ongoing feud between Sama and Musk.
        
       | andrewstuart wrote:
       | They should use their resources to make OpenAI good at coding.
        
       | siva7 wrote:
       | Sam got a jawline lift, anyone noticed?
        
         | dlivingston wrote:
         | Did he? Flipping back and forth between old vs. new photos of
         | him, his facial structure seems roughly the same.
        
         | beeflet wrote:
         | Yes, I've been cataloging the mewing and lookmaxxing progress
         | of hundreds of public figures
        
       | labrador wrote:
       | It'd be cool to see Google+ resurrected with OpenAI branding.
       | Google+ was actually a pretty well designed social network
        
         | WJW wrote:
         | Not well designed enough to live, though.
        
           | AlienRobot wrote:
           | Not well designed to live under Google*
           | 
           | Tumblr is still alive. LiveJournal is still alive. Newgrounds
           | is still alive and Flash doesn't even exist anymore.
        
           | int_19h wrote:
           | It doesn't matter how well-designed it is if people aren't
           | there. Social graph lock-in is the single biggest issue with
           | any contender.
        
         | bluetux01 wrote:
         | that would be cool, google+ was very unique and i was kinda sad
         | google killed it off
        
         | swyx wrote:
         | what did you like about it?
        
           | labrador wrote:
           | I liked the UX. I liked Circles. There were other nice
           | options that I can't remember but I thought Google+ was a big
           | improvement over Facebook.
        
         | piva00 wrote:
         | I don't believe it was well designed, it felt clunky to use,
         | concepts weren't intuitive enough to understand after a few
         | uses.
         | 
         | I tried to use it for a few months after release, always got
         | frustrated to the point I didn't feel like reaching out to
         | friends to be part of it.
         | 
         | The absurd annoyance of its marketing, pushing it into every
         | nook and cranny of Google's products was the nail in the
         | coffin. I'm starting to feel as annoyed by the push with
         | Gemini, it just keeps popping up at annoying times when I want
         | to do my work.
        
       | chazeon wrote:
       | I think a social network is not necessarily a timeline-based
       | product, but an LLM-native/enabled group chat can probably be a
       | very interesting product. Remember, ChatGPT itself is already a
       | chat.
        
         | sho_hn wrote:
         | What's a "LLM-native/enabled group chat"?
        
           | simple10 wrote:
           | Telegram and slack bots are probably the best example so far.
           | Bot gets added to a chat and can respond when mentioned in
           | the group chat.
        
             | sho_hn wrote:
             | Gotcha, the NLP-enabled version of the good old IRC
             | weatherbot.
             | 
             | For a moment I had a funnier mental image of a chat app
             | with an input field that treats every input as a prompt,
             | and everyone's chatting through the veil of an LLM
             | verbosity filter.
             | 
             | There might be something chat RPG-like there worth trying
             | though ...
        
         | simple10 wrote:
         | Yes, this. That's my bet if OpenAI follows through with social
         | features.
         | 
         | Extend ChatGPT to allow multiple people / friends to interact
         | with the bot and each other. Would be interesting UX challenge
         | if they're able to pull it off. I frequently share chats from
         | other platforms, but typically those platforms don't allow
         | actual collaboration and instead clone the chat for the people
         | I shared.
        
           | thomasfromcdnjs wrote:
           | I am building this with a team currently and we are launching
           | in a couple days.
           | 
           | Would love an alpha tester or two if anyone wants to test it.
           | 
           | My email/twitter is in my profile, shoot me a message and I
           | will be in touch.
        
         | sdwr wrote:
         | Yeah, the dream is the AI facilitating "organic" human
         | connection
        
       | candiddevmike wrote:
       | What else are they going to spend billions on to turn a profit?
        
         | grg0 wrote:
         | I don't know, but a weight bench goes under $200 and Sam needs
         | some chest gains fast.
        
       | swyx wrote:
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20250415160251/https://www.theve...
        
       | outside1234 wrote:
       | Aren't they unprofitable enough already?
        
       | pedalpete wrote:
       | https://archive.is/qU4am
        
       | pontus wrote:
       | Is this just a data play? Need more data. Start a social network.
       | Own said data.
        
         | sva_ wrote:
         | I think its more likely that they're desperate to find a
         | profitable business model.
        
           | 000ooo000 wrote:
           | Seems telling that an org had arguably the leading AI, as the
           | planet knows it at least, and still can't exist without
           | putting ads in front of eyes. So much for the hype.
        
         | guywithahat wrote:
         | Honestly I wonder if it's because Altman loves X and is
         | threatened by Grok
        
       | prvc wrote:
       | Is making yet another twitter clone really the way to build a
       | path towards super-intelligence? A worthy use of the
       | organization's talent?
        
         | arcatech wrote:
         | Collecting millions of people's thoughts and interactions with
         | each other IS probably on the path to better LLMs at least.
        
           | sho_hn wrote:
           | I'd love for my agents to be created in the image of
           | humanity's best side, its interactions on social media.
           | 
           | Perhaps then we can all let LLMs take care of tweeting
           | outrage for us, and go outside to find each other rolling
           | around on the grass.
        
         | blitzar wrote:
         | Another twitter clone will help the decline of human
         | intelligence, the dumber humans are the smarter the Ai appears.
        
       | philipov wrote:
       | Imagine that, a social network where _all_ of the participants
       | are bots.
        
       | tiffanyh wrote:
       | My guess ... it's probably less of a "social network" and more of
       | a "they are trying to build a destination (portal) where users go
       | to daily".
       | 
       | E.g. old days of Yahoo (portal)
        
         | sho_hn wrote:
         | They just want the next wave of Ghibli meme clicks to go to
         | them, really.
         | 
         | This will be built on the existing thread+share infra ChatGPT
         | already has, and just allow profiles to cross-post into
         | conversations, with UI and features more geared toward remixing
         | each other's images.
        
           | herpdyderp wrote:
           | That was my thought: a meme-sharing platform.
        
         | beepbopboopp wrote:
         | The answer seems more obvious to me. They dont even care if its
         | competitive or scales too much. xAI has a crazy data advantage
         | firehousing Twitter, llama FB/IG and CGPT just has, well, the
         | internet.
         | 
         | Id hope they have some clever scheme to acquire users, but
         | ultimately they want the data/
        
         | latency-guy2 wrote:
         | I actually would love this. I hate having to go to another
         | website to share some thoughts I had using tools in a platform.
         | 
         | I miss the days when experiences would actually choose to
         | integrate other platforms into their experiences, yes I was
         | sort of a fan of the FB/Google share button and Twitter side
         | feed (not the tracking bits though).
         | 
         | I wasn't a fan of LLM and the whole chat experience a few years
         | ago, I'm a very mild convert now with the latest models and I'm
         | getting some nominal benefit, so I would love to have some kind
         | of shared chat session to brain storm, e.g. on a platform
         | better than Figma.
         | 
         | The one integration of AI that I think is actually neat is
         | Teams + AI Note taking. It's still a hit or miss a lot of the
         | time, but it at least saves and notes something important 30%
         | of the time.
         | 
         | Collaboration enhancements would be a wonderful outcome in
         | place of AGI.
        
       | mushufasa wrote:
       | Sounds like they are thinking about instagram, which originated
       | as a phone app to apply filters to a camera and share with
       | friends (like texting or emailing them or sending them a link to
       | a hosted page), and evolved into a social network. Their new
       | image generation feature has enough people organically sharing
       | content that they probably are thinking about hosting that
       | content on pages, then adding permissions + follow features to
       | all of their existing users' accounts.
       | 
       | honestly it's not a terrible idea. it may be a distraction from
       | their core purpose, but it's probably something they can test and
       | learn from within a ~90 day cycle.
        
         | CharlieDigital wrote:
         | Sounds like some crossover with Civit.ai
        
       | clonedhuman wrote:
       | AI bots already make up a significant percentage of users on most
       | social networks. Might as well just take the mask off completely
       | --soon, we'll all be having conversations (arguments, most
       | likely) with 'users' with no real human anywhere near them.
        
         | api wrote:
         | I've been saying for a while that the next innovation beyond
         | TikTok, Instagram, and YouTube is to get rid of human creators
         | entirely. Just have a 100% AI-generated slop-feed tailor made
         | for the user.
         | 
         | There's already a ton of AI slop on those platforms, so we're
         | like half way there, but what I mean is eliminating the entire
         | idea of humans submitting content. Just never-ending hypnotic
         | slop guided by engagement maximizing algorithms.
        
       | janalsncm wrote:
       | An idea which sounds horrifying but would probably be pretty
       | popular: a Facebook like feed where all of your "friends" are
       | bots and give you instant gratification, praise, and support no
       | matter what you post. Solves the network effect because it scales
       | from zero.
        
         | samcgraw wrote:
         | I'm sorry to say this exists: https://socialai.co
        
       | einrealist wrote:
       | This is Altman increasing the mass of the investment black hole
       | that OpenAI is.
        
       | paulvnickerson wrote:
       | Sam Altman is retaliating against Musk for Grok and Musk's
       | lawsuit against OpenAI, trying to ride the wave of anti-Musk
       | political heat, and figure out a way to pull in more training
       | data due to copyright troubles.
       | 
       | If they launch, expect a big splash with many claiming it is the
       | X-killer (i.e. the same people that claimed the same of Mastadon,
       | Threads, and Bluesky), especially around here at HN, and then
       | nobody will talk about it anymore after a few months.
        
         | AlienRobot wrote:
         | Here's how to kill Twitter and Bluesky AND Mastodon:
         | 
         | 1: use an LLM to extract the text from memes and relatable
         | comics.
         | 
         | 2: use an LLM to extract the transcriptions of videos.
         | 
         | 3: use an LLM to censor all political speech.
         | 
         | OpenAI, I believe in you. You can do it. Save the Internet.
         | 
         | If you can clean my FYP of current events I'll join your social
         | media before you can ask a GPT how to get more users.
        
           | paulvnickerson wrote:
           | ^-- This comment proves my point.
        
           | terminatornet wrote:
           | computer: show me jingling keys
        
           | zombiwoof wrote:
           | Just use an LLM to verify only humans are on the social
           | network and no bots and you win
        
           | mcmcmc wrote:
           | > 3: use an LLM to censor all political speech.
           | 
           | And who gets to decide what is political? Are human rights
           | political? Is a trans person merely existing political? Is
           | calling for genocide political?
        
             | AlienRobot wrote:
             | The LLM decides it. That's what the AI is for.
             | 
             | There is a lot of stuff on the Internet, so I think the AI
             | can just censor 80% of it and we're still going to have
             | enough to have a social media.
        
               | pjc50 wrote:
               | Really saying "please, let the robot run humanity", huh.
        
               | mcmcmc wrote:
               | LLMs are guessing machines, they don't "decide" anything.
               | It would be decided by the people programming it and
               | putting in alignment guardrails.
        
           | pfraze wrote:
           | wonder if the LLM would censor this post
        
             | AlienRobot wrote:
             | If it works the way I want it absolutely should. Mentioning
             | politics is political content.
        
           | numpad0 wrote:
           | Not-exactly-devil's-advocate: you're trying to sort content
           | by quality. That's elitist. Also, those those filtered
           | contents are worth more. You can't have only premium
           | contents.
           | 
           | Someone should do it anyway and make it dominant anyway ASAP.
        
       | frabona wrote:
       | Feels like a natural next step, honestly. If they already have
       | users generating tons of content via ChatGPT, hosting it natively
       | and adding light social features might just be a way to keep
       | people engaged and coming back. Not sure if it's meant to compete
       | with Twitter/Instagram, or just quietly become another daily
       | habit for users
        
         | pclmulqdq wrote:
         | This would be a natural step if it were 2010. In 2025, it
         | sounds like a lack of imagination to me.
        
           | 9rx wrote:
           | Perhaps, but currently OpenAI is stuck sharecropping with
           | existing social networks - producing the content but not
           | deriving the value. It is hard to move grander visions
           | forward when you don't own the land.
        
         | rnotaro wrote:
         | FYI there's already an (early) social feed in OpenAI Sora.
         | 
         | https://sora.com/explore?type=videos
        
       | Nijikokun wrote:
       | ngl building a social network isn't hard, getting people to use a
       | social network is the hard part
        
       | abc-1 wrote:
       | Hahaha they're cooked. GPT 4.5 was a massive flop. GPT 4.1 is
       | barely an improvement after over a year. Now they're grasping at
       | straws. Anyone actually in this field who wasn't a grifter knew
       | improvements are sigmoidal.
       | 
       | All the original talent has already left too.
        
       | Apocryphon wrote:
       | We've got gen AI now and no ZIRP yet this is all they can think
       | of, Web 2.0 will never die.
        
       | basisword wrote:
       | I can't think of anything less appealing or interesting. AI
       | content as a destination has zero appeal.
        
       | randomor wrote:
       | Controversial opinion: it's not about the generator of the
       | content, human or not, but about the originality of the content
       | itself. Human with the help of AI will generate more good quality
       | as a result.
       | 
       | Humans are just as good as bots in generating rubbish content, if
       | not more so.
       | 
       | Twitter reduced content production cost significantly, AI can
       | take it another step down.
       | 
       | At minimum, a social network where people share good prompt
       | engineering techniques will be valuable to people who are on the
       | hunt for prompts. Just like the Midjourney website, except
       | creating a high quality image is no longer a trip to the beach,
       | but a thought experiment. This will also significantly cut down
       | the cold start friction and in combination with some free
       | credits, people may have more reasons to stay, as the current
       | chat based business model may reach it's limit for revenue
       | generation and retention, as it's just single player mode.
        
         | godelski wrote:
         | > but about the originality of the content itself
         | 
         | Your metric is too ill-defined. Here, have some highly unique
         | content                 gZbDrttzP6mQC5PoKXY2JNd9VIIxBUsV
         | ClRF73KITgz5DVnSO0YUxMB6o7P9gh8I
         | 1ttcQiNdQuIs4axdAJvjaFXXkxq0EvGq
         | Pd0qwVWgSvaPw8volLA0SWltnqcCNJiy
         | 
         | If we need unique valid human language outputs I'll still
         | disagree. Most human output is garbage. Good luck on your two
         | tasks: 1) searching for high quality content 2) de-duplicating.
         | Both are still open problems and we're pretty bad at both. De-
         | duping images is still a tough task, before we even begin to
         | address the problem of semantic de-duplication.
        
           | visarga wrote:
           | The idea is to let humans be humans, make a mess, debate,
           | have their opinions, and AI comes after that and removes the
           | herp derp from the useful parts.
           | 
           | As a test of concept copy paste this whole page, put it in a
           | LLM and ask for an article. It will come out without junk,
           | but will reflect a greater diversity of opinion, more
           | arguments, will do debunking, and generally have better
           | grounding in our positions than the original content.
           | 
           | So it's careful synthesis over human chats that is the end
           | value. Humans provide that novelty and lived experience LLMs
           | lack, LLMs provide consistent formatting and synthesis. The
           | companies that understand that users are the source of
           | entropy and novelty will stop trying to own the model and
           | start trying to host the question.
           | 
           | Wondering why reddit doesn't generate thousands of articles
           | per day from comment pages. It would crush traditional media
           | in both diversity and quality. It would follow the
           | interesting topics naturally.
        
             | plaidfuji wrote:
             | This is why LLMs are so helpful in writing research
             | proposals. If I'm writing a proposal, I basically need to
             | vibe on a concept without worrying about it sounding
             | entirely professional / buttoned-up and concise - otherwise
             | I get bogged down in word smithing. So I tell it about the
             | concept I'm trying to get across, and it converts that into
             | a more concise and punchy paragraph, while also providing
             | critical technical feedback (if I ask) and making sure I'm
             | using terms of art correctly. As you put so eloquently, it
             | removes the herp derp.
             | 
             | And then, kind of like how LLMs are good for boilerplate
             | code but get less helpful as you get to more specific
             | problems, this approach works for the first few paragraphs
             | but deteriorates the deeper in you get.
        
       | gorgoiler wrote:
       | The analogy is with Iain Banks' _The Culture_.
       | 
       | Anyone can be anything and do anything they want in an abundant,
       | machine assisted world. The connections, cliques, friends and
       | network you cultivate are more important than ever before if you
       | want to be heard above the noise. Sheer talent has long fallen by
       | the wayside as a differentiator.
       | 
       | ...or alternatively it's not _The Culture_ at all. Is live
       | performance the new, ahem, rock star career? In fifty years time
       | all the lawyers and engineers and bankers will be working two
       | jobs for minimum wage. The real high earners will be the ones who
       | can deliver live, unassisted art that showcases their skills with
       | instruments and their voice.
       | 
       | Those who are truly passionate about the law will only be able to
       | pursue it as a barely-living-wage hobby while being advised to
       | "not give up the night job" -- their main, stable source of
       | income -- as a cabaret singer. They might be a journalist or a
       | programmer in their twenties for fun before economics forces them
       | to settle down and get a real, stable job: starting a rock band.
        
         | comrade1234 wrote:
         | Naah... in the culture you could change your sex at will,
         | something soon to be illegal.
        
         | retransmitfrom wrote:
         | The Culture is about a post-capitalist utopia. You're
         | describing yet another cyberpunk-esque world where people have
         | still have to do wage-labor to not starve.
        
           | gorgoiler wrote:
           | You're right so I made a slight edit to separate my two
           | ideas. Thanks for even reading them at all! I try to
           | contribute positively to this site when I can, and riffing on
           | the overlap between fiction and real-life -- _a la Doctorow_
           | -- seems like a good way to be curious.
        
         | idiotsecant wrote:
         | The culture presents such a tempting world view for the type of
         | people who populate HN.
         | 
         | I've transitioned from strongly actually believing that such a
         | thing was possible to strongly believing that we will destroy
         | ourselves with AI long before we get there.
         | 
         | I don't even think it'll be from terminators and nuclear wars
         | and that sort of thing. I think it will come wrapped in a
         | hyper-specific personalized emotional intelligence, tuned to
         | find the chinks in our memetic firewalls _just_ so. It 'll sell
         | us supplements and personalized media and politicians and we'll
         | feel enormously emotionally satisfied the whole time.
        
           | t0lo wrote:
           | That's why it's so important to reduce all of your personal
           | data points online. Imagine what they can reconstruct based
           | on their modeling and comparing you to similar users. I have
           | 60 years of involuntary data collection ahead of me. This is
           | not going to be fun.
        
           | mrandish wrote:
           | Brings to mind the title of a Roger Waters album:
           | 
           | "Amused to Death"
           | 
           | Great title and an even better album.
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amused_to_Death
        
             | latexr wrote:
             | First a book.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusing_Ourselves_to_Death
        
           | overfeed wrote:
           | > It'll sell us supplements and personalized media and
           | politicians and we'll feel enormously emotionally satisfied
           | the whole time.
           | 
           | Which is why we'll need to acquire the drug gland technology
           | before AGI - no mind can sell me anything if I can feel
           | content on demand.
        
             | wongarsu wrote:
             | Alternatively they can sell you anything if they can make
             | you feel content or euphoric on their command. Get your new
             | drug gland today, free of charge, sponsored by Blackrock
        
           | lucianbr wrote:
           | A brave new world of AI, one might say.
        
           | baq wrote:
           | > I've transitioned from strongly actually believing that
           | such a thing was possible to strongly believing that we will
           | destroy ourselves with AI long before we get there.
           | 
           | I think we'll just die out. Everyone will be too busy having
           | fun to have kids. It's already started in the West.
        
             | Nursie wrote:
             | While the west has gone this way, there also seems to be a
             | strong undercurrent (at least here in Australia) of "we
             | can't afford to have kids (yet)".
             | 
             | As housing has moved further out of reach of young people,
             | some don't seem to feel their lives are stable enough to
             | make the leap. The trend was down anyway, but the housing
             | crisis seems to be an aggravating factor.
        
               | Urahandystar wrote:
               | Yep people blame technology but its really basic
               | economics and would be fixed by building more affordable
               | homes.
        
               | munksbeer wrote:
               | This subject has been investigated a lot. In many
               | countries governments make it much easier and more
               | affordable to have children, and it doesn't seem to make
               | any difference.
        
               | baq wrote:
               | I agree, using housing as a source of wealth has broken a
               | whole generation. When the boomers of the world start to
               | massively die out (any year now), housing will deflate,
               | but not spectacularly without a crisis (people don't want
               | to settle where the cheap houses are in a bull market).
        
             | bravetraveler wrote:
             | I wouldn't call my kid-skipping activites fun, but go off.
             | 
             | Spending a life on the treadmill doesn't encourage more
             | walks. It encourages burning it down. All I've known is
             | work. Pass on more, thanks. I hear you/others now:
             | But past generations managed...
             | 
             | That's exactly my point. Despite all of our proclaimed
             | progress, we're still _" managing"_. Maintaining this
             | circus/baby-crushing machine is a tough sell.
             | 
             | To get where I could afford to have kids, I became both
             | unprepared and uninterested.
             | 
             | What's more: I'm one of the lucky ones. I was given a fancy
             | title and great-but-not-domicile-ownership-great pay for my
             | sacrifice. Plenty do more work for _even less_ reward.
             | 
             | There's a sucker born every minute, right?
        
           | Lio wrote:
           | That'll be great for the world's natural outsiders. Those
           | that hate pop music and dislike even taylored ads because of
           | the creepy feeling of influence. Or who don't follow any
           | politicians because they're all out to hoodwink you.
           | 
           | Oh, a subset will be at risk of being artificially satisfied
           | but your hardcore grouch will always have a special "yeah,
           | yeah, fuck off bot" attitude.
        
           | immibis wrote:
           | Hasn't that already happened?
        
           | munksbeer wrote:
           | > I don't even think it'll be from terminators and nuclear
           | wars and that sort of thing
           | 
           | I do. And I don't even think the issue is a hostile AI. There
           | are 8 billion people in the world. Millions of those people
           | have severe mental issues and would destroy the world if they
           | could. It seems highly likely to me that AI will eventually
           | give at least one of those people the means.
        
             | Tryk wrote:
             | This is explored in the Vulnerable world Hypthesis-argument
             | by Nick Bostrom [1][2]
             | 
             | [1]
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulnerable_world_hypothesis
             | 
             | [2] https://doi.org/10.1111%2F1758-5899.12718
        
           | dsign wrote:
           | There is a bias there in action: we are assuming that the
           | entire world is like this thing we just happen to be thinking
           | about.
           | 
           | It is not.
           | 
           | Even if it were just a minority, there are plenty of people
           | outside "this thing" that will profit from the ((putative)
           | majority's) anesthesia. Or which at least will try to set the
           | world on fire (anybody remember the elections in USA a few
           | months ago? That was really dumb. But sometimes a dumb feat
           | shows that one is alive, which is better than doing nothing
           | and being taken for dead. Or it is at least good-enough
           | peacocking to attract mates and pass on the genes, which is
           | just an extravagant theory of mine that I'm almost certainly
           | sure is false. And do not take this as an endorsement of
           | DJT). I'm not being an optimist here; I've seen firsthand the
           | result of revolutions, but it may be the least-bad outcome.
        
         | Nursie wrote:
         | > The real high earners will be the ones who can deliver live,
         | unassisted art that showcases their skills with instruments and
         | their voice.
         | 
         | We already have so many of those that it's very hard to make
         | any sort of living at it. Very hard to see a world in which
         | more people go into that market and can earn a living as
         | anything other than a fantasy.
         | 
         | Cynically - I think we'd probably end up with more influencers,
         | people who are young, good looking and/or charismatic enough to
         | hold the attention of other people for long enough to sell them
         | something.
        
         | ur-whale wrote:
         | > Those who are truly passionate about the law will only be
         | able to pursue it as a barely-living-wage hobby while being
         | advised to "not give up the night job" -- their main, stable
         | source of income -- as a cabaret singer. They might be a
         | journalist or a programmer in their twenties for fun before
         | economics forces them to settle down and get a real, stable
         | job: starting a rock band.
         | 
         | Controversial stance probably, but this very much sounds like a
         | world I'd love to live in.
        
       | tomrod wrote:
       | Maybe, but Substack is building a much mote engaging social
       | network. I'm frankly amazed at how good it is.
        
       | shaftoe444 wrote:
       | Logical conclusion of AI is to generate slop for slop feeds so
       | why not own your own slop feed.
        
       | rglover wrote:
       | I speculated a ways back [1] that this was why Elon Musk bought
       | Twitter. Not to "control the discourse" but to get unfettered
       | access to real, live human thought that you can train an AI
       | against.
       | 
       | My guess is OpenAI has hit limits with "produced" content (e.g.,
       | books, blog posts, etc) and think they can fill in the gaps in
       | the LLMs ability to "think" by leveraging raw, unpolished social
       | data (and the social graph).
       | 
       | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31397703
        
         | godelski wrote:
         | But collecting more data is just a naive task. The reason scale
         | works is because of the way we typically scale. By collecting
         | more data, we also tend to collect a wider variety of data and
         | are able to also collect more good quality data. But that has
         | serious limits. You can only do this so much before you become
         | equivalent to the naive scaling method. You can prove this
         | yourself fairly easily. Try to train a model on image
         | classification and take one of your images and permute one
         | pixel at a time. You can get a huge amount of scale out of this
         | but your network won't increase in performance. It is actually
         | likely to decrease.
        
         | chewbacha wrote:
         | If that were the case he (Musk) wouldn't have turned it into a
         | Nazi-filled red pilled echo chamber.
        
       | danity wrote:
       | Just what the world needs, another social network!
        
       | Duanemclemore wrote:
       | I haven't been happier online in the last 10 years than after I
       | stopped checking social media. And in that miserable time it
       | wasn't even a naked beg for training data like this.
       | 
       | But I really don't see why anyone would even use an open ai
       | "social network" in the first place.
       | 
       | It does allow one thing for open ai. Other than training data
       | which admittedly will probably be pretty low quality. It is a
       | natural venue for ad sales.
        
         | Duanemclemore wrote:
         | Oh I get one thing - other than ads. So the idea of an LLM
         | filter to algorithmically tailor your own consumption has some
         | utility.
         | 
         | The logical application would be an existing social network
         | -using- chat gpt to do this.
         | 
         | But all the existing ones have their own models, so if they
         | can't plug in to an existing one like goooooogle did to yahoo
         | in the olden days, they have to start their own.
         | 
         | That makes a certain amount of (backward) sense for them. I
         | don't think it'll work. But there's some logic if you're
         | looking from -their- worldview.
        
           | 8n4vidtmkvmk wrote:
           | Isn't the selling point behind Blue sky is that you can
           | customize your feed your way? I don't know the tech behind
           | that but the feed is "open" isn't it? Can they plug into
           | that?
        
             | rcpt wrote:
             | The selling point of Bluesky is that you don't get
             | bombarded with a mob of blue checks every time you post
             | something political
        
         | SecretDreams wrote:
         | Social media is a plague, including LinkedIn. Anything that
         | lets you follow others and/or erodes your anonymity is just
         | different degrees of cancer waiting to happen.
         | 
         | The best I ever enjoyed the internet was the sweet spot between
         | dial up and DSL where I was gaming in text based/turn based
         | games, talking on forums, and chatting using IRC.
        
           | Duanemclemore wrote:
           | Agreed. I wasn't particularly hooked, didn't use it very much
           | already. As an architect, designer, and professor I had ig,
           | and for the last five years basically only for work. But the
           | feeling of freedom in its absence these past few months has
           | been palpable.
           | 
           | Early fb reconnecting with people I hadn't seen since high
           | school was okay. The blog / Google Reader era happening at
           | the same time was the real golden age for me. And it's been
           | all downhill since.
        
           | saltysalt wrote:
           | Strongly agree. It's fascinating to me how faster broadband
           | and selfie cameras led to more slop content.
        
             | SecretDreams wrote:
             | We can think of fast internet and phones as like
             | supercharging progress. Except, in this case, it just
             | accelerated how quickly humans ruin it.
        
             | notyourwork wrote:
             | Reducing the effort to produce content enabled a larger
             | audience to contribute. This degrades average content.
        
             | pjc50 wrote:
             | The term "eternal september" dates back to the 90s,
             | referring to the phenomenon where new undergraduates would
             | arrive and suddenly have access to USENET to make bad
             | posts.
        
           | imafish wrote:
           | Agreed. This is where HN and reddit still smells a little bit
           | like the good old times ;)
        
             | SecretDreams wrote:
             | I use both, and even Reddit has issues. Likewise, HN is
             | topically more like a single, insufficiently modded,
             | subreddit. Still enjoyable, but easily brigades on certain
             | topics. This is most readily seen for anything political.
        
           | throwaway743 wrote:
           | This brings me back to the days of Nukezone.
        
         | bufferoverflow wrote:
         | LOL, you're on a social network right now. HN is one. Yeah,
         | it's semi-anonymous, but there are many users with known names
         | here.
        
           | gloosx wrote:
           | Wrong, social network is centered around the concept of "you"
           | and your "friends", where the content itself is not as
           | important.
           | 
           | There is no concept of "friends" on a forum like HN, since
           | people purely gather to discuss topics of interest here.
        
             | rchaud wrote:
             | > Wrong, social network is centered around the concept of
             | "you" and your "friends", where the content itself is not
             | as important.
             | 
             | This post was brought to you by the year 2012.
        
           | croes wrote:
           | But I can't follow them. I don't get notifications when they
           | post new links or comments, I can't send them specifically my
           | links and comments. I have no groups or circles.
           | 
           | HN is more of a discussion forum and not for connecting with
           | others.
        
             | rchaud wrote:
             | Nobody is "connecting" on social media anymore, they are
             | just liking and commenting on whatever random thing the
             | algo throws at them.
             | 
             | You and I are the doing same thing, commenting on posts
             | made by strangers.
        
           | whiplash451 wrote:
           | HN skips many of the dark patterns that other social medias
           | have:
           | 
           | - no infinite scroll (you have to click on "More") - no
           | personal recommendation - no feedback loop between your
           | upvotes and the feed - no messaging or following between
           | users
           | 
           | HN looks a lot more like news groups from back in the days.
        
             | rchaud wrote:
             | The comment threads are basically "infinite scroll".
             | They're paginated once they hit 500 or something. Scanning
             | a SM post takes 2 seconds, HN comments much longer.
        
               | graemep wrote:
               | Its not the pagination that matters, it is the lack of a
               | feed that you can keep scrolling. The front page is
               | paginated at 30.
               | 
               | Longer comments are a good thing.
        
         | interludead wrote:
         | Stepping away from social media can feel like getting your
         | brain back
        
           | stef25 wrote:
           | There's no better life hack
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | We should start a campaign, and everybody who hates sm can
           | use the campaign's logo as their profile photo. Maybe it will
           | catch on.
        
             | latexr wrote:
             | Profile photo for what? Social media? Then you need to be
             | there, which is self-defeating. If you leave your account
             | dormant, no one will find it anyway but the owners of the
             | platforms will still use you to count the number of users.
        
               | amelius wrote:
               | I mean 90% of users want to quit, but can't. I'm just
               | proposing a way to fight back.
               | 
               | The more people change their profile photos into the
               | campaign logo, the less attractive sm becomes. Maybe at
               | some point even the very addicted users will quit.
        
               | latexr wrote:
               | > I mean 90% of users want to quit
               | 
               | 90% is implausibly high. If that many people wanted to
               | quit social media, social media would no longer exist.
               | 
               | > I'm just proposing a way to fight back.
               | 
               | I propose an alternative is to just quit yourself and get
               | on with your life. As the people around you understand
               | you are happy without social media, they too can become
               | interested and quit. Social media only works while there
               | are people on it. The fewer of us there are, the less
               | interesting it is.
               | 
               | How many times have there been campaigns to delete social
               | media accounts? They never last, and often even the
               | organisers come back. I don't see a reason why this time
               | it would work.
               | 
               | All that said, far from me to discourage you. If you feel
               | it's a worthy goal, I encourage you to do it. I genuinely
               | hope I'm wrong and that you'll succeed where others have
               | failed.
        
               | amelius wrote:
               | > 90% is implausibly high. If that many people wanted to
               | quit social media, social media would no longer exist.
               | 
               | This is how addiction works. Most smokers want to quit,
               | but can't, etc., etc. Cigarettes still exist.
        
           | coldpie wrote:
           | Social media is this generation's cigarettes. It feels good
           | to use it for a bit, and there's an enormous amount of
           | advertising for it and social pressure to use it, but it's
           | extremely addictive and the long-term personal and public
           | health consequences are absolutely crushing.
           | 
           | I hope one day we can strictly regulate social media & make
           | pariahs of the people who built it, as we did with tobacco.
           | Instead, we just did the equivalent of handing the entire
           | federal government into Phillip Morris's control, so my hopes
           | are not high.
        
         | timeon wrote:
         | > I haven't been happier online in the last 10 years than after
         | I stopped checking social media. And in that miserable time it
         | wasn't even a naked beg for training data like this.
         | 
         | Meta/Twitter/etc. are drug dealers.
         | 
         | > But I really don't see why anyone would even use an open ai
         | "social network" in the first place.
         | 
         | I really don't see why anyone would even use Heroin yet they
         | do.
        
           | latexr wrote:
           | I bet we could draw several parallels.
           | 
           | "It feels good."
           | 
           | "I can quit whenever I want."
           | 
           | "I was on it the whole night instead of sleeping. I felt
           | awful in the morning."
           | 
           | "I can't stop. All my friends are on it and I don't want to
           | be alone."
        
       | throw_m239339 wrote:
       | What would be the point? Why would it even need real members?
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Ads
        
       | uptownfunk wrote:
       | It's all whatever will maximize valuation. They can do it until
       | antitrust comes for them.
        
       | lukev wrote:
       | This kind of news should be a death-knell for OpenAI.
       | 
       | If you've built your value on promising imminent AGI then this
       | sort of thing is purely a distraction, and you wouldn't even be
       | considering it... unless you knew you weren't about to shortly
       | offer AGI.
        
         | pyfon wrote:
         | It is a Threads. How is that doing?
        
         | Nuzzerino wrote:
         | > If you've built your value on promising imminent AGI then
         | this sort of thing is purely a distraction, and you wouldn't
         | even be considering it... unless you knew you weren't about to
         | shortly offer AGI.
         | 
         | I'm not a big fan of OpenAI but this seems a little unfair.
         | They have (or at least had) a pretty kick ass product. Great
         | brand value too.
         | 
         | Death-knell? Maybe... but I wouldn't read into it. I'd be
         | looking more at their key employees leaving. That's what kills
         | companies.
        
           | smt88 wrote:
           | - Product is not kickass. Hallucinations and cost limit its
           | usefulness, and it's incinerating money. Prices are too high
           | and need to go much higher to turn a profit.
           | 
           | - Their brand value is terrible. Many people loathe AI for
           | what it's going to do for jobs, and the people who like it
           | are just as happy to use CoPilot or Cursor or Gemini.
           | Frontier models are mostly fungible to consumers. No one is
           | brand-loyal to OpenAI.
           | 
           | - Many key employees have already left or been forced out.
        
             | stef25 wrote:
             | > Product is not kickass
             | 
             | It might not be the best but people of whom you'd have
             | never thought that they would use it, are using it. Many
             | non technical people in my circle are all over it and they
             | have never even heard of Claude. They also wouldn't
             | understand why people would loathe AI because they simply
             | don't understand those reasons.
        
               | DJHenk wrote:
               | Still, it burns money like nothing has in history.
        
             | tokioyoyo wrote:
             | My dad uses ChatGPT for some excel macros. He's ~70, and
             | not really into tech news. Same with my mom, but for more
             | casual stuff. You're underestimating how prevalent the
             | usage is across "normies" who really don't care about
             | second order effects in terms of employment and etc.
        
               | OccamsMirror wrote:
               | I loathe AI for what it's doing the job market.
               | 
               | But I'd be stupid not to use it. It has made boilerplate
               | work so much easier. It's even added an interesting
               | element where I use it to brain storm.
               | 
               | Even most haters will end up using it.
               | 
               | I think eventually people will realize it's not replacing
               | anyone directly and is really just a productivity
               | multiplier. People were worried that email would remove
               | jobs from the economy too.
               | 
               | I'm not convinced our general AIs are going to get much
               | better than they are now. It feels like we're we are at
               | with mobile phones.
        
               | frm88 wrote:
               | > People were worried that email would remove jobs from
               | the economy too.
               | 
               | And it did. Together with other technology, but yes:
               | 
               | https://archive.is/20200118212150/https://www.wsj.com/art
               | icl...
               | 
               | https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-vanishing-executive-
               | assista...
        
             | spacebanana7 wrote:
             | > No one is brand-loyal to OpenAI.
             | 
             | Sam Altman is incredibly popular with young people on
             | TikTok. He cured homework - mostly for free - and has a
             | nice haircut. Videos of him driving his McLaren have
             | comment sections in near total agreement that he deserves
             | it.
        
               | pjc50 wrote:
               | > He cured homework - mostly for free
               | 
               | People argue about the damage COVID lockdowns did to
               | education, but surely we're staring down the barrel of a
               | bigger problem where people can go through school without
               | ever having to think or work for themselves.
        
               | Duralias wrote:
               | Not entirely sure what they meant but chatgpt and the
               | likes have forced schools to stop relying on homework for
               | grades and are instead shifting over to assignments done
               | more as an mini exam, more work for the school, but you
               | can't substitute your knowledge for chatgpt in such
               | cases, you actually need to know to succeed.
        
               | dminik wrote:
               | Well, that may be, but it's entirely possible that this
               | outlook might change.
               | 
               | In the worst case he's poisoned an entire generation. If
               | ChatGPT doctors, architects and engineers are anything
               | like ChatGPT "vibe-coders" we're fucked.
        
             | jappgar wrote:
             | Consumers may not be brand loyal, but companies are.
             | 
             | If you're doing deep deals with MSFT you're going to be
             | strongly discouraged from using Gemini.
        
               | smt88 wrote:
               | Microsoft isn't even loyal to OpenAI! You can use
               | multiple models in Azure and CoPilot
        
             | Topfi wrote:
             | Counterpoint, ChatGPT as a brand has insane mindshare and
             | buy in. It is synonymous with LLMs/"aI" in the mind of many
             | and has broken through like few brands before it. That
             | ain't nothing.
             | 
             | Counter-Counterpoint, I still feel investors priced in a
             | bit more than that. Yahoo! Had major buy in as well and AGI
             | believers were selling investors not just on the next
             | Unicorn, but rather the next industry, AGI not being merely
             | a Google in the 90s, but rather all of the internet and
             | what that would become over the decades to this day.
             | Anything less than delivering that, is not exactly what a
             | large part of investors bought. But then again, any bubble
             | has to burst someday.
        
           | latexr wrote:
           | > I'm not a big fan of OpenAI but this seems a little unfair.
           | They have (or at least had) a pretty kick ass product. Great
           | brand value too.
           | 
           | Even if you believe all that to be true, it in no way
           | contradicts what you quoted or makes it unfair. Having a kick
           | ass product and good brand awareness in no way correlates to
           | being close to AGI.
        
         | robotresearcher wrote:
         | AGI is a technology or a feature, not a product. ChatGPT is a
         | product. They need some more products to pay for one of the
         | most expensive technologies ever (to not be delivered yet).
        
           | leptons wrote:
           | It's a shame that $1 trillion is being poured into AI so
           | quickly, but fusion research has only seen a fraction of that
           | over many decades.
        
             | andsoitis wrote:
             | Isn't that a reflection, to some (major?) extent, of the
             | general sense of likelihood of breakthrough?
        
               | xmprt wrote:
               | I used to think like this but after seeing the amount of
               | money invested into crypto companies which most average
               | people could have quickly dismissed as irrelevant, I'm
               | not sure VCs are a good judge of value.
        
               | j_maffe wrote:
               | No it's the _perception_ of likelihood of breakthrough
        
               | caseyy wrote:
               | It's why we have warnings to investors saying past
               | performance is not an indicator of future returns.
        
               | plorg wrote:
               | Maybe it means investors think it will happen, maybe it
               | means investors simply think it will be profitable. It
               | could even be investors seeking a market that has juice
               | long after ZIRP dried up.
        
               | rchaud wrote:
               | Capital gains on AI investment doesn't need a
               | breakthrough. I'm sure pharma companies and others are
               | building their own custom models to assist R&D, but those
               | aren't the ones sinking the truly huge sums into
               | consumer-facing LLMs.
        
               | leptons wrote:
               | We already know fusion exists and happens and has been
               | happening for billions of years - it's well understood.
               | It may not be simple to reproduce _and sustain_ on earth,
               | but there is a fairly clear path to get there.
               | 
               | There has never been an AGI, and there's no clear path to
               | get there. And no, LLMs are not bringing us any closer to
               | a real AGI, no matter how much Sam Altman wants to try to
               | redefine what "AGI" means so that he can claim he has it.
               | 
               | The difference between AGI funding and fusion funding is
               | the people hawking AGI are better liars and the people
               | funding are far more gullible than the people trying to
               | make fusion power a reality.
        
               | Nevermark wrote:
               | We already know fusion has been a grind. For decades.
               | 
               | We already know that computation has grown exponentially
               | in scale and cost, for decades. With breakthrough
               | software tech showing up reliably as it harnesses greater
               | computational power, even if unpredictably and sparsely.
               | 
               | If we view AI across decades, it has reliably improved.
               | Even through its "winters". It just took time to hit
               | thresholds of usefulness making relatively smooth
               | progress look very random from a consumers point of view.
               | 
               | As computational power grows, and current models become
               | more efficient, the hardware overhang for the next major
               | step is growing rapidly.
               | 
               | That just hasn't been the case for fusion.
        
             | imafish wrote:
             | Unfortunately VC investments rely on FOMO, and there is no
             | current huge breakthrough in fusion research that they are
             | afraid of missing out on.
        
             | Tenoke wrote:
             | Much, much less was being poured into AI until it started
             | to have some returns.
        
               | leptons wrote:
               | What returns? OpenAI is still not profitable.
        
             | csharpminor wrote:
             | If you believe the AGI thesis, this is a stepping stone to
             | unlocking fusion and other scientific advances.
        
             | immibis wrote:
             | Once we unlock fusion, humanity starts down a millenia-long
             | path to making the planet permanently uninhabitable (not
             | just temporarily like with climate change) by turning all
             | the water into bitcoins.
        
               | orbifold wrote:
               | I don't think that is true, there is only so much heavy
               | water on the planet and doing hydrogen fusion is not all
               | that economical.
        
             | bookofjoe wrote:
             | Gemini 10.0
             | 
             | Wait for it
        
           | pjc50 wrote:
           | If its proponents are taken at face value, AGI is a _threat_.
        
         | parhamn wrote:
         | There could be too-many-cooks in the AI research part of their
         | work.
         | 
         | Also, I don't think Sama thinks like a typical large org
         | managers. OpenAI has enough money to have all sorts of
         | products/labs that are startup like. No reason to standby
         | waiting for the research work.
        
           | smt88 wrote:
           | Altman doesn't think like a typical large org manager because
           | he's never successfully built or run one. He failed upward
           | into this role.
           | 
           | OpenAI doesn't have enough money to even run ChatGPT in
           | perpetuity, so building internal moonshots is an
           | irresponsible waste of investor funds.
        
         | make3 wrote:
         | this might just be a way to generate data
        
         | ChuckMcM wrote:
         | Alternative is that OpenAI is being quickly locked out of
         | sources of human interactions because of competition, one way
         | to "fix" that is build you're own meadow for data cows.
         | 
         | xAI isn't allowing people to use the Twitter feed to train AI
         | 
         | Google is keeping it's properties for Gemini
         | 
         | Microsoft, who presumably _could_ let OpenAI use it 's data
         | fields appears (publicly at least) to be in a love/hate
         | relationship with OpenAI these days.
         | 
         | So you plant a meadow of tasty human interaction morsels to get
         | humans to sit around and munch on them while you hook up your
         | milking machine to their data teats and start sucking data.
        
           | Springtime wrote:
           | They also have a contract with Reddit to train on user data
           | (a common go-to source for finding non-spam search results).
           | Unsure how many other official agreements they have vs just
           | scraping.
        
             | safety1st wrote:
             | Good heavens, I'd think that if anything could turn an AI
             | model into a misanthrope, it would be this.
        
               | Springtime wrote:
               | One distinctive quality I've observed with OpenAI's
               | models (at least with the cheapest tiers of 3,4 and o3)
               | are their human-like face-saving when confronted with
               | things they've answered incorrectly.
               | 
               | Rather than directly admit fault they'll regularly
               | respond in subtle (moreso o3) to not so subtle roundabout
               | ways that deflect blame rather than admit direct fault,
               | even when it's an inarguable factual error about even
               | conceptually non-heated things like API methods.
               | 
               | It's an annoying behavior of their models and in complete
               | contrast to say Anthropic's Claude which ime will
               | immediately and directly admit to things it had responded
               | incorrectly about when the user mentions it (perhaps
               | _too_ eagerly).
               | 
               | I have wondered if this is something its learned based on
               | training from places like Reddit, or if OpenAI
               | deliberately taught it or instructed via system prompts
               | to seem more infallible or if models like Claude were
               | made to deliberately reduce that aspect.
        
               | wodenokoto wrote:
               | > It's an annoying behavior of their models and in
               | complete contrast to say Anthropic's Claude which ime
               | will immediately and directly admit to things it had
               | responded incorrectly about when the user mentions it
               | 
               | I don't know whats better here. ChatGPT did have a
               | tendency to reply with things like "Oh, I'm sorry, you
               | are right that x is wrong because of y. Instead of x, you
               | should do x"
        
               | cameronh90 wrote:
               | _> Rather than directly admit fault they 'll regularly
               | respond in subtle (moreso o3) to not so subtle roundabout
               | ways that deflect blame rather than admit direct fault_
               | 
               | Human-level AI is closer than I'd realised... at this
               | rate it'll have a seat in the senate by 2030.
        
               | spencerflem wrote:
               | They are already passing ChatGPT written laws
               | 
               | https://hellgatenyc.com/andrew-cuomo-chatgpt-housing-
               | plan/
        
             | bayindirh wrote:
             | They also have syndication agreement with The Guardian [0].
             | I lost all my respect for The Guardian after seeing this.
             | 
             | [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/gnm-press-
             | office/2025/feb/14/gua...
        
               | KoolKat23 wrote:
               | Why? I can't see any issues with this at all, whatsoever.
        
               | bayindirh wrote:
               | Everybody is free to have their own opinions. I don't
               | like how AI companies and mostly OpenAI "fair-uses" whole
               | internet, so there's that.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Again, like others have contested with you, how is this
               | The Guardian's fault to have issue with? They convinced
               | ClosedAI to give them money in a licensing deal to use
               | their content as training data without having it scraped
               | for free.
               | 
               | Your sense of injustice or whatevs you want to call it is
               | aimed in the opposite direction.
        
               | KoolKat23 wrote:
               | This isn't even fair-use defence, they're paying to use
               | it expressly for this purpose.
        
               | teruakohatu wrote:
               | Why shouldn't they license their content? It's theirs and
               | it's a non-profit that needs revenue.
        
               | bayindirh wrote:
               | It's not that they shouldn't license their content. I'm
               | not a fan of OpenAI and their "fair use" of things, to be
               | honest.
        
               | freedomben wrote:
               | But this is the opposite of fair use. They're licensing
               | the content, which means they're paying for it in some
               | fashion, not just scraping it and calling it fair use.
               | 
               | If you don't like the fair use of open information, I
               | would expect you to be cheering this rather than losing
               | respect for those involved.
        
             | silisili wrote:
             | I cannot think of a worse future for AI than parroting
             | Reddit comments.
        
           | lucianbr wrote:
           | The assumption that you can just build a successful social
           | network as an aside because you need access to data seems
           | wildly optimistic. Next will be Netflix announcing working on
           | AGI because lately show writers have been not very
           | imaginative, and they need fresh content to keep subscribers.
        
             | pjc50 wrote:
             | Netflix will almost certainly try to push a vizslop or at
             | least AI-written show at some point to see how bad the
             | backlash is.
        
               | bn-l wrote:
               | There's a guy who does these weird alien talking head /
               | vox pop videos on YouTube. They're pretty funny. I can
               | see the potential.
        
               | littlestymaar wrote:
               | Yes, but this misses the point ade by the comment above.
               | Using AI in your workflow [?] attempting to build AGI.
        
               | pjc50 wrote:
               | If you have AGI, what do you do with it in your workflow?
               | Or is the question what does it do with _you_?
        
             | DJHenk wrote:
             | 'Wildly optimistic' is a very fitting categorization for
             | Altman/OpenAI.
        
           | scyzoryk_xyz wrote:
           | Mmmm nice try hooking me up.
           | 
           | Instead, I'm just going to hang out here in this hacker
           | meadow and on FOSS social networks where something like that
           | would _never_ happen!
        
             | dylan604 wrote:
             | Why oh why did I take the red pill? Plug me back in.
        
           | baq wrote:
           | > Microsoft, who presumably could let OpenAI use it's data
           | fields appears (publicly at least) to be in a love/hate
           | relationship with OpenAI these days.
           | 
           | sama probably would like to take Satya's seat for what he no
           | doubt sees as unblocking the path to utopia. The slight
           | problem is he's becoming a bit lonely in that thinking.
        
             | freehorse wrote:
             | I was always wondering if such sociopaths actually believe
             | they are doing sth for noble reasons, or they consciously
             | use it as a trick in their quest for power.
        
               | bravetraveler wrote:
               | Must consider the illusory truth effect
        
               | fullshark wrote:
               | Sociopathy isn't enough, you have to mix in some
               | megalomania and that's the output
        
           | anshumankmr wrote:
           | But don't they have ChatGPT, the fifth or whatever most
           | popular website on the planet? And deals with Reddit. Sure
           | that can't touch the treasure trove Google is sittig on, xAI
           | sure won't give them access and Github could perhaps sell
           | their data (but that's a maybe)
        
           | m_fayer wrote:
           | I would just like to appreciate your imagery and wordplay
           | here, it's spot on and I think should be our standard for
           | conceptualizing this corporate behavior.
        
           | everythingisfin wrote:
           | If this were their plan, they'd be discounting that some of
           | their users would be controlled by their own AI.
           | 
           | My guess is that they're trying other things to diversify
           | themselves and/or to try to keep investors interested.
           | Whether or not it works is irrelevant as long as they can
           | convince others it will increase their usage.
        
           | everdrive wrote:
           | I came across a quote in a forum which was part of a
           | discussion around why corporate messaging and pandering has
           | gotten so crazy lately. One comment stuck out as especially
           | interesting, and I'll quote it in full below:
           | 
           | ---
           | 
           | C suites are usually made of up really out of touch and weird
           | workaholics, because that is what it takes to make it to the
           | C suite of a large company. They buy DSS (decision support
           | service / software) from vendors, usually marketing groups,
           | that basically tell them what is in and what isn't. Many
           | marketing companies are now getting that data from twitter
           | and reddit, and portraying it as the broad social trend. This
           | is a problem because twitter and reddit are both extremely
           | curated and censored, and the tone of the conversation there
           | is really artificial, and can lead to really bad conclusions.
           | 
           | ---
           | 
           | This is only somewhat related, but if OpenAI did actually
           | succeed in building their own successful social media
           | platform (doubtful) they would be basing a lot of their model
           | on whatever subset of people wanted to be part of the OpenAI
           | social media platform. The opportunity for both mundane and
           | malicious bias in models there seems huge.
           | 
           | Somewhat related, apparently a lot of English spellings were
           | standardized by the invention of the printing press. This
           | isn't surprising; it was one of the first technologies to
           | really democratize written materials, and so it had a very
           | outsized power to set standards. LLMs feel like they could be
           | a bit like this, particularly if everyone continues with
           | their current trends of intentionally building reliance on
           | them into their products / companies / workflows. As a real
           | life example, someone at work realized you could ask co-pilot
           | to rate the professionalism of your communication during a
           | meeting. This seems quite chilling, since you're not really
           | rating your professionalism, but measuring yourself against
           | whatever weird bell curve exists in co-pilot.
           | 
           | I'm absolutely baffled that LLMs are seeing broad adoption,
           | and absolutely baffled that people intentionally adopting and
           | integrating them into their lives. I'm in my early 40s now.
           | I'm not sure if I can get out of the tech field at this
           | point, but I'm seriously thinking about options at this
           | point.
        
             | Workaccount2 wrote:
             | I lowkey believe that the twitterification of journalists
             | is probably one of the worst things to happen to the
             | country in the last 25 years.
             | 
             | The social harm inflicted by journalists thinking "Damn, I
             | can just go on twitter to find out what is going on and how
             | people feel about it!"
        
           | jtwoodhouse wrote:
           | This metaphor nails it. In this day and age, the way around
           | walled gardens is to build your own walled garden apparently.
        
         | saltysalt wrote:
         | Indeed! Ultimately, all online business models end at ad click
         | revenue.
        
         | westoncb wrote:
         | I think it might just be about distribution. Grok gets a lot of
         | interesting opportunities for it over X, then throw in the way
         | people reacted to new 4o image gen capabilities.
        
         | ben_w wrote:
         | OpenAI's idea of "shortly" offering AGI is "thousands" of days,
         | 2000 days is just under 5.5 years.
        
         | kromem wrote:
         | Don't underestimate the importance of multi-user human/AI
         | interactions.
         | 
         | Right now OAI's synthetic data pipeline is very heavily
         | weighted to 1-on-1 conversations.
         | 
         | But models are being deployed into multi-user spaces that OAI
         | doesn't have access to.
         | 
         | If you look at where their products are headed right now, this
         | is very much the right move.
         | 
         | Expect it to be TikTok style media formats.
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | Someone down below mentioned ads, and I think that might well
         | be the route they're going to try: charging advertisers to
         | influence the output of the AI.
         | 
         | As for whether it will work, I don't know how they're possibly
         | going to get the "seed community" which will encourage others
         | to join up. Maybe they're hoping that all the people making
         | slop posts on other social networks want to cut out the
         | middleman and have communities of people who actually enjoy
         | that. As always, the sfw/nsfw censorship line will be an
         | important definer, and I can't imagine them choosing NSFW.
        
           | rpastuszak wrote:
           | Called it!
           | 
           | https://tidings.potato.horse/about
        
         | weatherlite wrote:
         | > If you've built your value on promising imminent AGI then
         | this sort of thing is purely a distraction, and you wouldn't
         | even be considering it... unless you knew you weren't about to
         | shortly offer AGI.
         | 
         | Or even if you did come up with AGI, so would everyone else.
         | Gemini is arguably better than ChatGPT now.
        
           | klabb3 wrote:
           | Bingo. The secret sauce is never a sustainable long term
           | moat. Things leak, competitors copy, or they make even better
           | things, employees switch jobs. AI looks less vulnerable,
           | since it's academically difficult and expertise is still
           | limited. But time and time again, new secret sauce
           | ingredients last for months at a maximum, before they are
           | exceeded oftentimes by hobbyists or other small actors.
           | 
           | I remember at Google they said well if source code leaks
           | nobody is actually worried about stealing tech, the vast
           | majority of code is open to all employees, with some
           | exceptions like spam-, ranking, etc. It's still protected,
           | but not considered moat.
           | 
           | The moat comes from other things, such as datacenter & global
           | networking infrastructure, marketing new products by pushing
           | them through existing products (put Gemini in search, add
           | chrome to Android etc). Most importantly you can use data you
           | already have to bootstrap new products, say Gmail and
           | calendar integrated with personalized assistants.
           | 
           | If you play your cards right, yes there's some first-mover
           | advantages, but they are more superficial than your average
           | Twitter hype thread makes you think. It can give you the
           | ability to set unofficial standards and APIs, like
           | Kubernetes, S3 - (maybe OpenAI APIs?). And you can set
           | certain agendas and market your name for recognition and
           | trust. But all that can slip through your fingers if a
           | behemoth picks up where you left off. They have so many
           | advantages, except for being the fastest.
        
           | Topfi wrote:
           | In fairness, the AGI definition predicted by doomsday safety
           | experts who don't have time for such unimportant concerns as
           | copyright or misinformation via this tech, everyone who is
           | most certainly not merely hyping to get investor cash and the
           | utterly serious and scientifically grounded research
           | happening at MIRI, is essentially that one company will
           | achieve AGI, shortly thereafter that will lead to a
           | singularity and that's that. No one else could create a
           | second because that scary AGI is so powerful and would
           | prevent anyone else from shutting it down, including other
           | AGI. And no, this is totally no a sci-fi plot, but rigorous
           | research. Incidentally, I'm looking for someone to help me
           | prevent OAI from killing my own grandfather, cause that
           | scenario is also incredibly likely and should be taken
           | seriously.
           | 
           | If it's not obvious already, I believe we are far away from
           | that with LLMs and that the attention those working in model
           | safety give to AGI over current day concerns like Meta just
           | torrenting for model data, are not very serious people, but I
           | have accepted that this isn't a popular opinion amongst
           | industry professionals.
           | 
           | Not least because letting laws prevent them from model
           | training is bad according to them, either for the same weird
           | logic Musk uses to justify testing FSD Betas on an unwilling
           | public due to the potential to prevent future deaths, or
           | because they genuinely took RB seriously. No idea what's
           | worse for serious adults...
        
         | sevensor wrote:
         | Adding social media to your thing is so 2018. Is the next big
         | thing really just a warmed over version of the last big thing?
         | Is sama just completely out of ideas to save his money-burner?
        
           | rchaud wrote:
           | It's an easy thing to slap on to a service with lots of
           | users. Back in the day this would be called a 'message
           | board'. "Social media" requires the use of iframes that can
           | be embedded on 3rd party sites. OpenAI is a login-only
           | environment so I can see them going for a Discord-type of
           | platform rather than something that spreads to the open web.
        
         | jacobsenscott wrote:
         | Everything devolves to ad sales. Do you know the minute details
         | about their lives people type into chat gpt prompts? It's a
         | gold mine for ads.
        
         | NewUser76312 wrote:
         | I think it was a strategic mistake for Sam et al to talk about
         | "AGI".
         | 
         | You don't need some mythical AI to be a great company. You need
         | great products, which OpenAI has, and they keep improving them.
         | 
         | Now they've hamstrung themselves into this AGI nonsense to try
         | and entice investors further, I guess.
        
           | diggan wrote:
           | > Now they've hamstrung themselves into this AGI nonsense to
           | try
           | 
           | AFAIK, they've been on the AGI hype-train for a very long
           | time, before they reached mainstream popularity for sure.
           | From their own blog (2020 -
           | https://openai.com/index/organizational-update/), here is a
           | mention of their "mission":
           | 
           | > We're proud of these and other research breakthroughs by
           | our team, all made as part of our mission to achieve general-
           | purpose AI that is safe and reliable, and which benefits all
           | humanity.
           | 
           | I'm not sure OpenAI trying to reach AGI is a "strategic
           | mistake" as much as "the basis for the business" (which, to
           | be fair, was a non-profit organization initially).
        
         | jug wrote:
         | AI as we know it (GPT based LLM's) have peaked. OpenAI noticed
         | this sometime autumn last year when would-be GPT-5 was
         | unimpressive despite the huge size. I still think ChatGPT 4.5
         | was GPT-5, just rebranded to set expectations.
         | 
         | Google Gemini 2.5 Pro was remarkably good and I'm not sure how
         | they did it. It's like an elite athlete doing a jump forward
         | despite harsh competition. They probably have excellent
         | training methodology and data quality.
         | 
         | DeepSeek made huge inroads in affordability...
         | 
         | But even with those, intelligence itself is seeing diminishing
         | returns while training costs are not.
         | 
         | So OpenAI _needs_ to diversify - somehow. If they rely on
         | intelligence alone, then they're toast. So they can't.
        
           | Topfi wrote:
           | I tentatively agree that LLMs have reached somewhat of a
           | ceiling at this stage and diversifying would make sense at
           | this stage, in any other industry. But as others pointed out,
           | OAI and others have attached their valuation directly to
           | their definition of achieving "AGI". Any pivot from that, if
           | it were realistic in the coming years (my opinion: it isn't),
           | would be foolhardy and go against investors, so in turn, this
           | is clearly admitting that even sama doesn't see AGI as
           | possible in the near term.
        
         | 9rx wrote:
         | On the other hand, if you knew AGI was on the near horizon,
         | you'd know that AGI will want to have friends to remain happy.
         | You can give AGI a physical form so it can walk down to the bar
         | - or you can, much more simply, give it an online social
         | network.
        
       | beambot wrote:
       | Makes me (further) believe that Reddit is heavily undervalued...
        
         | alphazard wrote:
         | Alright, I'll bite. What's a reasonable price for Reddit?
         | Aren't most of their users bots?
        
           | pyfon wrote:
           | Doesn't matter. Subreddits create vast islands of value. A
           | single sub overrun with bots is quarantined effectively.
           | 
           | That is why Reddit is one of my favourite social sites. It is
           | algorithmic but if you go to r/assholedesign you get asshole
           | design. (and an anal mod who keeps it like that) Etc.
           | 
           | Value $44bn ;)
        
         | blitzar wrote:
         | Discord is the real play.
        
           | robbomacrae wrote:
           | I'm came to the comments here wondering why OpenAI can
           | seemingly fund massive new AI chip data centers but can't
           | acquire Discord.
        
             | blitzar wrote:
             | Buy discord (for 44bn) - skin a version to be a
             | slack/teams/zoom/google thingy clone for corporates -
             | integrate ChatGPT into all of it.
             | 
             | Discord will probably IPO when conditions allow - might be
             | an easy buy for a stock / cash offer.
        
       | Nevermark wrote:
       | A social network that faithfully and intelligently curated posts
       | according to my own continuously updated (explicit) direction
       | would be most excellent.
       | 
       | But it would also juice echo chamber depth and further amplify
       | extremist "engagement".
       | 
       | And the monetary incentives for OpenAI to generate most of the
       | content, the "people", and the ads, including creative
       | hallucinations and novel extremisms, so they directly match each
       | of our curation directions, would enshittify the whole thing
       | within a short minute.
       | 
       | --
       | 
       | The time has come to outlaw conflict of interest businesses that
       | scale (the conflict).
       | 
       | If a startup plan includes "sales" and "customers": Green light
       | go.
       | 
       | If it talks about ways to "monetize": Red trash can.
       | 
       | If only.
        
       | misonic wrote:
       | this sounds not appealing to me, what extra value would it
       | provide? why do I need a new X with AI support, making friends
       | with Agents/Bots?
        
       | xpl wrote:
       | One interesting benefit is that OpenAI would be able to detect
       | bots using their APIs to generate content.
        
       | aussieguy1234 wrote:
       | LLM -> Social Media Platform -> Tiktok clone.
       | 
       | That would be an interesting evolution.
        
         | arizen wrote:
         | Social media is becoming TikTok's clone army, with algorithms
         | hooked on short-form videos for max engagement.
         | 
         | Text, images, and long-form content are getting crushed,
         | forcing creators into bite-sized video to be favored by
         | almighty algorithm.
         | 
         | It's like letting a kid pick their meals - nothing but sugar
         | and candy all day.
        
           | tayo42 wrote:
           | your probably not wrong
           | 
           | But personally i don't get it. i hate almost all videos. the
           | exception is some thing is best shown as a video, like a how
           | to. but I search those out
           | 
           | Maybe im so broken at this point, who has the patience for
           | videos? Clearly a lot but how lol
        
             | aussieguy1234 wrote:
             | So far, I've refused to watch Tiktok.
             | 
             | Something about mindless garbage doesn't appeal to me.
        
       | mrandish wrote:
       | Okay, thinking charitably here... maybe a play at getting
       | training data they don't have to steal? (although it does seem
       | like rotating the ladder instead of the lightbulb...)
        
       | gerash wrote:
       | I believe the play here is:
       | 
       | 1. Look "Studio Ghibli" went viral, let's capitalize
       | 
       | 2. Switching cost for LLMs are low. If we can't be the best let's
       | find other ways to lock our users in and make our product super
       | sticky
        
       | BrenBarn wrote:
       | So Facebook is trying to get into AI (e.g. its chatbot-"user"
       | debacle) and OpenAI wants to form its own social network. Our
       | world is becoming the recycled shit-food of this technological
       | ouroboros.
        
       | tossandthrow wrote:
       | The American play book: make some innovation but do a bait and
       | switch and focus all energy on value extraction.
        
       | karel-3d wrote:
       | AI generated posts and images and nonstop posting about AI? That
       | sounds like LinkedIn in 2025.
        
       | Iolaum wrote:
       | Maybe before building a social network, you should be able to
       | share the result of an answer with another user, even if they
       | have not paid/subscribed.
       | 
       | Tried to share an answer to a colleague (who didn't have the paid
       | version) and he couldn't see it ...
        
       | pluto_modadic wrote:
       | They know AI can be addictive (people will prompt it far too
       | often), so mixing it with social media can captivate users even
       | more effectively.
        
         | hybrid_study wrote:
         | and they can own all the data
        
       | beaugunderson wrote:
       | > While the project is still in early stages, we're told there's
       | an internal prototype focused on ChatGPT's image generation that
       | has a social feed.
       | 
       | isn't it public already? they basically made tumblr but
       | everything is AI:
       | 
       | https://sora.com/explore
        
       | interludead wrote:
       | Curious to see if this leans more "creative community" or
       | "algorithmic content zoo."
        
       | paride5745 wrote:
       | It makes no sense to build a social network nowadays.
       | 
       | With Mastodon and Bluesky around, users have free options. Plus X
       | and Threads, and you can see how the market is more than
       | saturated.
       | 
       | IMHO they should look into close collaboration/minority stake
       | with Bluesky or Reddit instead. You have a huge pool of users
       | already, without the need to build it up from the ground up from
       | scratch.
       | 
       | Heck, OpenAI probably has enough money to just buy Reddit if they
       | want.
        
         | b1n wrote:
         | Also, what is their USP? "Join our social network so we can
         | train our models on your data!"
        
           | Traubenfuchs wrote:
           | ...free AI slop right from the tap? Like the latest ghibli
           | fad.
        
         | seafoamteal wrote:
         | I don't know about Reddit, but Bluesky would never in a million
         | years partner themselves publicly with OpenAI. I can't comment
         | on the opinions of the team themselves because I just don't
         | know, but the users would revolt. Loudly.
        
       | GeorgeCurtis wrote:
       | The whole value proposition of a social media is that everyone
       | you know (almost) is on it. That's why young people don't use
       | Facebook. They'd be better off buying one
        
       | svara wrote:
       | I guess where this is all going in the long run is something with
       | an interface similar to TikTok, where the user gives rapid
       | feedback to train an algorithm to generate content that they
       | "love", er, that maximally tickles their reward circuitry.
        
       | buyucu wrote:
       | openai is getting crushed by competitors who are offeering more
       | cost-effective alternatives.
       | 
       | so sam altman is pressing all buttons to keep the hype train
       | going.
        
       | nottorp wrote:
       | ... for bots. The "AI" bots are lonely and this will let them
       | talk to each other.
        
       | camkego wrote:
       | I suspect they are searching for network effects, otherwise they
       | know the switching costs are too low for their users
        
       | robert-whiteley wrote:
       | Counter opinion - What tech people don't seem to realise about AI
       | is that putting it into a user-friendly format for the average
       | person is what has led to this current revolution, i.e. ChatGPT
       | 
       | This is just the next step of that. This also doesn't stop them
       | working on 'AGI', you need the data as well as the models, as
       | most people familiar with the field will known. I will be happy
       | to be proven wrong on this prediction.
        
       | INTPenis wrote:
       | The aversion to robots in Fediverse suddenly makes a lot of
       | sense.
       | 
       | I don't want to live on the internet that is crammed with AI
       | content.
        
       | gtirloni wrote:
       | Social networks are the TODO list app of rich people, apparently.
        
       | trilbyglens wrote:
       | What a dumbfuck article. It's essentially a gossip-rag level
       | story based on a few random and meaningless tweets from a couple
       | of billionaire douchebags.
        
       | thatgerhard wrote:
       | this is starting to feel a lot like the ~15 years ago where
       | everyone wanted a social network
        
       | sharathnarayan wrote:
       | May be they need the social media data to improve their models? X
       | and Meta have an edge here
        
         | rvnx wrote:
         | Data quality on social networks like Twitter/Meta, is very low
         | compared to what you see in Wikipedia or Reddit
        
       | antirez wrote:
       | Isn't Gemini 2.5 the proof you don't need social network alike
       | data for training?
        
         | dktp wrote:
         | Google has a deal with Reddit to scrape its content for
         | training AI. It also has Youtube
        
       | seafoamteal wrote:
       | So... one stop shop to generate slop and send it out into the
       | ether to be recycled into more slop.
        
       | nbzso wrote:
       | Scam Altman is running out of "options". Serial failing is SV
       | current business model.
        
       | arjunaaqa wrote:
       | If they simply take Chatgpt profiles, a button to share with
       | others, and add a follow button for every qa pair.
       | 
       | - They have a quick social network with feed of qna with AI (like
       | stackoverflow) immediately.
        
       | anentropic wrote:
       | > "The Grok integration with X has made everyone jealous," says
       | someone working at another big AI lab. "Especially how people
       | create viral tweets by getting it to say something stupid."
       | 
       | It's awesome to see the amazing value for society being created
       | by big tech these days.
        
         | sph wrote:
         | To think that even a year ago the idea of Instagram-style
         | social media where all posts are openly AI-generated sounded
         | very dystopian, now I can clearly so it is something people
         | would pay for and HN people would gladly build. I wasn't always
         | a Luddite, but damn they made me one.
        
           | yapyap wrote:
           | Although that is true for Instagram style media it was always
           | a risk for text based media.
           | 
           | As PoC I'd say look at the subreddit SubSimulatorGPT2
           | 
           | www.reddit.com/r/SubSimulatorGPT2
        
           | fullshark wrote:
           | "Social" media isn't really social anymore, it just means any
           | idiot with a computer can generate the media you're
           | consuming.
        
             | flir wrote:
             | Write-only media.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | wouldn't it be WORM media though as the point is to have
               | as many others read it as possible?
        
           | coldpie wrote:
           | > I wasn't always a Luddite, but damn they made me one.
           | 
           | If this industry didn't pay so well, I would've been gone
           | years ago. I'm lucky to work in a job that I think is ethical
           | and improving the world, but it's so goddamn embarrassing to
           | even be in the same room as the AI and blockchain types and
           | the ad hucksters.
        
             | sph wrote:
             | It's not gonna pay well for long, unless you find yourself
             | a very tight and lucrative niche. My goal on the other hand
             | is to buy a house in the woods by end of the year and
             | become a woodworker before I have to be assimilated by the
             | AI wave, maybe doing some coding by hand just for the fun
             | of it on the side. Can't wait for "vibe coding" and "2
             | years of Copilot experience" to figure among the average
             | list of job requirements.
             | 
             | To quote the young'uns, we are so cooked.
        
               | coldpie wrote:
               | > and become a woodworker
               | 
               | Hey we can't ALL have the same plan, man! The tech
               | oligarchs that own all of society's wealth will only need
               | so much bespoke furniture!
               | 
               | More seriously, my plan had been to build a decent
               | savings and go work for the USPS or the local public
               | transit company, supplemented with savings interest and
               | maybe some woodworking income. But then the 2024 election
               | happened so who fucking knows anymore.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | Nah, I plan on owning a chunk of acres and start my own
               | homestead. Raise a few animals like some sheep, goats,
               | rabbits, and of course chickens. Build a nice green house
               | and large garden. Just need to find the right plot of
               | land before making it a serious go. Oh, and can't forget
               | the first step. Gotta win the lottery to pay for it. Not
               | all of have those cushy FAANG salaries.
        
               | magicstefanos wrote:
               | There are rural land loan companies. Or buy with friends
               | or family. I know people who've done the above and don't
               | tell anybody but it's working out fine.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | >There are rural land loan companies.
               | 
               | The point is to not owe people money so that you are self
               | sufficient and not _need_ to make money.
               | 
               | > Or buy with friends or family.
               | 
               | yeah, but i don't like people. /s
        
               | rob wrote:
               | I actually want to do everything you're outlining as
               | well, but here in the northeast they're trying to sell ~1
               | acre for > $100,000 in a lot of desirable "rural" towns.
               | Definitely makes it harder to get into unless you want to
               | commit to far far north.
        
               | dylan604 wrote:
               | I've been watching a lot of TV shows that have revealed a
               | lot of pros/cons about different areas of the country.
               | The further north means a much shorter growing season
               | which makes a greenhouse even more important. It also
               | means a lot more infrastructure is required to keep any
               | livestock alive during the longer winters. Places like
               | Texas goes the other direction where the heat during the
               | long summers is brutal, but it means early spring and
               | late fall crops. I really wouldn't want to be any further
               | north than 40deg.
               | 
               | Got to find that perfect plot of land that has water,
               | some trees for wood, some land that can be farmed and
               | hopefully a clear sky to the south for solar. Oh, and
               | it's gonna need to be far enough from a city so my
               | telescope can finally be used the way it was meant.
        
               | jermaustin1 wrote:
               | I bought my wife's grandma's house in rural central
               | Louisiana so that her grandpa could retire and not have
               | to worry about medical bills or anything like that. It
               | already has a "woodshop"[1] on it, and when the
               | contractor finishes (or at least starts) on repairing the
               | years of neglect, I will also be a woodworker in the
               | woods.
               | 
               | I'm currently a "woodworker" in suburban Houston, but
               | usually only average $500-ish per month (heavily loaded
               | toward a couple of times of year - Mid Spring, Back to
               | School, Christmas).
               | 
               | 1: https://www.icloud.com/photos/#/icloudlinks/08c7DUB5tx
               | bSRiCs...
        
               | bcraven wrote:
               | I'm not sure posting a photo with EXIF location data
               | under a full name is a good idea.
        
               | 9rx wrote:
               | The evolution of the internet has been fun to watch:
               | 
               | 1994-1998 - Don't give out any personal information
               | online.
               | 
               | 1998-2004 - Well, maybe just don't give out your real
               | name.
               | 
               | 2004-2010 - Never mind. Your full name is fine. Just stay
               | away from sharing racy or compromising photos.
               | 
               | 2010-2016 - Actually, the photos are okay as long as your
               | "bathing suit area" remains modest.
               | 
               | 2016-2020 - On second thought, bare all if you wish. But,
               | please, don't spread misinformation.
               | 
               | 2020-2025 - Ugh, fine. But whatever you do, do not share
               | your exact GPS coordinates!
        
             | MisterTea wrote:
             | > If this industry didn't pay so well, I would've been gone
             | years ago.
             | 
             | That's the root of the problem. Intelligent and want to
             | live nicely? Then have your mind exploited for profit! Have
             | morals? Compromise on them and get paid.
             | 
             | I know someone who works for a large gaming company who
             | told me upon hearing a friend of mine was entertaining a
             | position at a Musk company told me "your friend lacks a
             | moral compass to work for that man." I reminded them they
             | work for a company who was fined half a billion dollars for
             | willfully exploiting children. They did not take that well.
        
               | babaceca wrote:
               | I've worked at both a casino company and a large mobile
               | game studio, and the latter was way shadier in almost all
               | aspects.
               | 
               | There's a list of 20-ish large companies we univerally
               | agree are evil and openly bash all the time, but the
               | reality is 95% of the industry is at best doing
               | absolutely meaningless work, and at worst work that's
               | deeply negative for the world.
        
               | sizzle wrote:
               | Roblox?
        
               | ghfhghg wrote:
               | That would be my God. In parts of the gaming industry
               | working there can make you a pariah though. Not a huge
               | portion but I've seen people get rejected based on
               | working there and a couple other choice companies.
        
           | deadbabe wrote:
           | What you gotta understand is this world is going straight to
           | hell, humanity might not be around much longer. Might as well
           | embrace the chaos and enjoy the ride down. No point in being
           | a Luddite now, the time for that was decades ago.
        
             | malka1986 wrote:
             | > humanity might not be around much longer.
             | 
             | Good riddance. Humanity is hell.
        
           | immibis wrote:
           | There was /r/SubSimulatorGPT2, but you're telling me people
           | would PAY for that? Maybe if you tricked them - which is
           | arguably what Reddit is doing.
           | 
           | Social media's always been about giving people whatever makes
           | them come back to the site, no matter how unethical. If an
           | army of fake fans makes me think I have an army of real fans
           | and keep posting for attention from my fans, they will
           | totally do that. Unless it's illegal.
        
         | HPsquared wrote:
         | Are you not entertained?
        
         | xyst wrote:
         | And at the expense of consuming massive amounts of energy and
         | depleting our resources---water, energy---at an alarming rate.
        
           | gbasin wrote:
           | pardon my ignorance, in what was does it "consume water"?
           | water cooling is closed loop
        
             | 05 wrote:
             | Fabs use water in a way that's not closed loop see e.g. [0]
             | 
             | [0] https://www.weforum.org/stories/2024/07/the-water-
             | challenge-...
        
               | gbasin wrote:
               | I see, thanks. Seems just a matter of cost to reclaim it.
               | Maybe regulation is needed
        
               | wegfawefgawefg wrote:
               | the planet is a water closed loop. the vapor condenses as
               | rain somewhere
        
             | llm_nerd wrote:
             | Data centers do use a lot of water on average. Warmer
             | climate data centers often use evaporative cooling and can
             | run through millions of gallons of water to offload heat.
             | Google's data centers combined chewed through some 6
             | billion gallons of water last year.
             | 
             | Closed systems are much more water-efficient, and are more
             | common in cooler climates.
        
           | danielbln wrote:
           | Not to say AI doesn't require a lot of power, but I don't
           | know if we need to be alarmist about it:
           | 
           | https://engineeringprompts.substack.com/p/does-chatgpt-
           | use-1...
           | 
           | https://simonwillison.net/2025/Jan/12/generative-ai-the-
           | powe...
        
         | zombot wrote:
         | But "have AI help people share better content" is so
         | indispensable! How could humanity ever survive without that?
         | 
         | Even better, soon none of us will have to use social media at
         | all, our AI bots will do it for us. Then we will finally find
         | peace.
        
         | kccqzy wrote:
         | In George Orwell's 1984, there is a machine called the
         | versificator that generates music and literature without any
         | human intervention, presumably for the "entertainment" of the
         | proletarians.
        
         | kookamamie wrote:
         | It's also very dangerous, I think. Grok is used on X to
         | arbitrating ground-truth for topics I think it has no chance
         | assessing.
        
         | thih9 wrote:
         | I don't use X/Twitter - does anyone have an example of a viral
         | tweet like this?
        
         | moogly wrote:
         | I guess YTMND.com would've blown their mind if they had been
         | alive and conscious 20 years ago.
        
         | tempodox wrote:
         | Each time I think I've seen dystopia and the pinnacle of
         | stupidity someone finds a new way to top it. Either that's an
         | amazing superpower, or I'm infected with incurable optimism.
        
       | fhd2 wrote:
       | I wonder to what degree this move would be genuine company
       | strategy, and to what degree it'd just be what the sub headline
       | says: "Is Sam Altman ready to up his rivalry with Elon Musk and
       | Mark Zuckerberg?"
        
       | paradox242 wrote:
       | They have to feed the beast with a never ending supply of input.
        
       | dtj1123 wrote:
       | Sounds like OpenAI want to further leverage their platform into a
       | tool for directing public opinion. Or maybe this is just a middle
       | finger directed at Elon Musk by Sam Altman, who knows.
        
       | chocolateteeth wrote:
       | This sounds more like a project intended to be a component of his
       | --incredibly--still larger project World. Good times to come,
       | everyone.
        
       | kilianinbox wrote:
       | If a front figure of a big tech happens to go plant based, that
       | simply means a good role model for Ai in this time (and
       | humans..). I'm for a big YES. At first I wasn't positive due to a
       | sense of bloating the service and risking forms of leaking, but
       | considering that most social plattforms needs more ethical
       | thinking integrated and that social media can be done in new
       | smart way; it's much easier than making a AI-driven Search Engine
       | (takes extreme compute to be as good as people likely expect
       | without bringing a negative opinion for chatgpt as such; since
       | high quality tailored answers will take some compute..) to make a
       | meaningful social 'plattform'; interaction with Ai can be done
       | much cooler than today in co-exploration :) ..
        
       | andrewstuart wrote:
       | If it's true then it flags giant problems at OpenAI and makes it
       | clear they don't know what they're doing or where they are going.
        
       | rnotaro wrote:
       | FYI there's already an (early) social feed [1] in OpenAI Sora.
       | 
       | [1] https://sora.com/explore?type=videos
        
       | eagerpace wrote:
       | I thought they were building a new search engine. Now it's a
       | social network. Tomorrow it will be robots. It's all a
       | distraction from ClosedAI.
        
         | bsima wrote:
         | Also rumored to be building a phone at one point? They are
         | playing the media
        
         | empath75 wrote:
         | It already is a search engine and has been for a while.
         | 
         | I think you don't recognize it as such because it's
         | incorporated into the chat box, but I use chatgpt as my search
         | engine 90% of the time and almost never use google any more.
         | 
         | I think the social stuff will also just be incorporated into
         | the chat interface in the form of 'share this image', etc, and
         | isn't going to be like twitter with a bunch of bots posting.
        
       | vagab0nd wrote:
       | Can we just have a public ledger that everyone posts to, and then
       | we each have an AI to selectively serve us contents we are
       | interested in?
        
       | MagicMoonlight wrote:
       | I think people would actually use an all-bot social network.
       | 
       | Imagine tweeting and thousands of "people" reply to you and
       | appreciate you. It would be addictive.
        
       | squigz wrote:
       | Some of the comments here are so detached from my reality that I
       | have to wonder whether I'm the crazy one.
       | 
       | Nobody I know would be interested in a social media platform that
       | is just AI. Contrary to what some commenters here seem to think,
       | most people are interested in things like upvotes and likes and
       | whatnot... because they understand it's (mostly) humans on the
       | other end. Without that, it would all be rather hollow, and
       | nobody would want to participate in it. I think most people would
       | find the insinuation that they're so shallow as to want that a
       | bit insulting.
       | 
       | But again, maybe I'm the crazy one.
        
       | colonial wrote:
       | A few months ago they were AGI vagueposting. Now they're working
       | on SlopBook?
       | 
       | This plus Ed Zitron's excellent investigative writing on their
       | finances [0] makes me think that OpenAI is going to fold within a
       | year, _maybe_ two.
       | 
       | [0]: https://www.wheresyoured.at/openai-is-a-systemic-risk-to-
       | the... (TL;DR - we have apparently learned nothing from 2008.)
        
       | NiloCK wrote:
       | Leveraging OpenAI for a Worldcoin proof-of-humanity toehold? Blue
       | checks for WorldID holders, and a presumption of dead internet
       | everywhere else.
        
       | nilkn wrote:
       | What this tells me is that xAI / X / Grok have together become a
       | much bigger threat to OpenAI than they anticipated. And I believe
       | it's true -- Grok's progress has been _much_ faster than ChatGPT
       | 's over the past year, even if we can nitpick evals over which is
       | technically "better" at any moment. The fact that it's hard to
       | tell is itself a huge statement considering the massive advantage
       | OpenAI and ChatGPT had not too long ago. I mean, Grok was
       | basically a joke when it first launched!
        
       | mring33621 wrote:
       | i said this 3 months ago:
       | 
       | I think OpenAI should split into 2:
       | 
       | 1) B2B: Reliable, enterprise level AI-AAS
       | 
       | 2) B2C: New social network where people and AIs can have fun
       | together
       | 
       | OpenAI has a good brand name RN. Maybe pursuing further
       | breakthroughs isn't in the cards, but they could still be huge
       | with the start that they have.
        
       | datadrivenangel wrote:
       | If they nail the memory part, this could basically kill WorkOS
       | and Jira and all those project management tools.
        
       | sys32768 wrote:
       | I hope they don't apply the same censorship filters to their
       | social media as their image generation.
        
       | giancarlostoro wrote:
       | I'm genuinely curious how they will achieve this, will they go
       | the open source pre-built solution route, or build their own from
       | scratch?
        
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