[HN Gopher] 4chan Sharty Hack And Janitor Email Leak
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       4chan Sharty Hack And Janitor Email Leak
        
       Author : LookAtThatBacon
       Score  : 385 points
       Date   : 2025-04-15 11:30 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (knowyourmeme.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (knowyourmeme.com)
        
       | CamelCaseName wrote:
       | If you lamented the disappearance of the "old internet", well,
       | this was a part of it, and now it may be gone too.
       | 
       | The title is also a fair bit understated.
       | 
       | They're leaking the moderators home addresses and work contact
       | info (for admins, who are(were?) paid moderators)
        
         | GaggiX wrote:
         | Do you think that 4chan is going to disappear forever for this?
         | Just wait a bit and it will be back.
         | 
         | Also where did you see that they are leaking home addresses and
         | work contact info? I think they just leaked the emails (I don't
         | understand why home addresses and work contact info should be
         | present in the 4chan database, everyone moderating the site for
         | free).
        
           | LightBug1 wrote:
           | I'm not up to speed - but isn't that a free-speech absolutist
           | site?
        
             | jsheard wrote:
             | Mostly, but the few restrictions they do have led to even
             | absolutist-er spinoffs like 8chan being founded.
        
             | GaggiX wrote:
             | Every website that allows content uploaded by users have
             | moderators, you can be absolutist as you want but you can't
             | allow CP for example, you also need to handle DMCA (unless
             | you live in a country that couldn't care less).
        
             | ltbarcly3 wrote:
             | No, it's mostly a cancer survivors support group. Every
             | third post was about cancer, what is causing it, and frank
             | expressions of helplessness in the face of it.
             | 
             | About half the posts were pornography, racist rants, or
             | memes making fun of someone, often for being mentally
             | handicapped.
             | 
             | Five percent was accusing the moderators of sleeping on the
             | job.
             | 
             | Edit: I love that people are down-voting this, it really
             | shows how much people like to have an opinion even while
             | they can't recognize even the most obvious things that
             | requires any information about the subject.
        
             | sznio wrote:
             | depends on the board you're browsing, if you're discussing
             | gardening you won't have issues with the far-right
        
             | krapp wrote:
             | There are no true free speech absolutist sites on the open
             | internet. To run a site under free speech absolutist
             | principles would require allowing and refusing to moderate
             | illegal content.
             | 
             | People like to confuse "free speech absolutism" for
             | "tolerating right-wing speech" because the free speech
             | absolutist narrative has been pushed by right-wing
             | accelerationists, but every site has its limits, even
             | 4chan.
        
               | h2zizzle wrote:
               | And you don't even need to go that far. Off-topic posts
               | could result in a swift 3-day ban. There were even words
               | and phrases that could get you autobanned the second you
               | hit submit.
        
         | pelagicAustral wrote:
         | Isn't it a running joke that the Jannies don't get paid?
        
           | aloha2436 wrote:
           | I'm reliably informed they do it for free.
        
           | throw_m239339 wrote:
           | > Isn't it a running joke that the Jannies don't get paid?
           | 
           | You're think about reddit and why it is the way it is from an
           | editorial perspective and what kind of people have the time
           | to mods 100+ subs for free...
           | 
           | But that ceased to be true long ago. While some of the
           | supermods aren't paid by reddit directly, they might be paid
           | by other orgs to mod and influence reddit, corporate or
           | 'grass root'...
           | 
           | Some others simply hijack subs to sell their own products.
        
             | pc86 wrote:
             | What does Reddit have to do with this?
             | 
             | "Jannies" (janitors) are pseduo-mods on 4chan (the subject
             | of the linked thread) who clean up posts and do other work,
             | for free. Actual 4chan mods are paid.
        
             | gnarlynarwhal42 wrote:
             | Go back.
             | 
             | The joke on 4chins actually is that the Jannies do it for
             | free. Never cared to fact check it, but it is a popular
             | saying.
             | 
             | Also sage in all fields
        
         | robobro wrote:
         | The initial leaker is most likely not the same parties as the
         | ones tying email addresses and usernames to people's "real
         | identities", if you look at the thread where the leak was
         | announced.
         | 
         | Say what you will about 4chan but I am concerned for the team
         | managing it - them and their close ones are certainly going to
         | be exposed to a whole lot of viciousness soon :(
        
           | pjc50 wrote:
           | > them and their close ones are certainly going to be exposed
           | to a whole lot of viciousness soon
           | 
           | Isn't viciousness the notorious bread and butter of 4chan?
        
             | morkalork wrote:
             | Live by the sword, die by the sword I would say. You don't
             | get to enjoy raising leopards and also get to be surprised
             | when you become lunch one day
        
               | brookst wrote:
               | They certainly don't get to claim any kind of moral high
               | ground, but as a bystander I can feel empathy for someone
               | hit by a drunk driver, even if the victim had driven
               | drunk before in the past.
               | 
               | Any increase in human suffering is unfortunate,
               | regardless of one's take on just desserts or karma or
               | whatever.
        
               | soVeryTired wrote:
               | I'd say it's more like a high-profile NRA member getting
               | shot. Unfortunate but it's hard to miss the irony.
        
             | robobro wrote:
             | Most boards on 4chan, like the origami board, food and
             | cooking, pets and animals, retro gaming, toys, etc are
             | relatively harmless and are just a different way to
             | participate in discussions than using discord or reddit.
             | 
             | The staff has cut down a lot on organized harassment that
             | 4chan was notorious for in recent years. Those people
             | migrated to private discords, telegrams, and other forums
             | (like kiwi farms, soy party, etc). Ex, #gamergate was
             | mostly an 8chan, Twitter, reddit, and IRC phenomenon - #gg
             | people would get banned if they tried posting about it on
             | 4chan
        
           | a0123 wrote:
           | Damn, the culture they have bred and actively maintained is
           | now going to be turned against them?
           | 
           | It might end up making them more sympathetic people on the
           | long term. They might realise the seriousness of what they
           | have done to others.
        
             | wegfawefgawefg wrote:
             | the serious crime of... deleting egregious posts from a
             | website
        
             | weard_beard wrote:
             | While a precise estimate is difficult to gauge it is
             | supposed by professional analysts that a majority of hacks
             | are state sponsored.
             | 
             | If the hacker is a state actor then I don't think anyone
             | has learned anything about Free Speech.
        
             | dialup_sounds wrote:
             | "The culture" of 4chan varies from board to board and even
             | thread to thread.
        
             | y-curious wrote:
             | You don't like to lump people into groups by race/country
             | of origin but find no cognitive dissonance in lumping
             | people together by platform choice.
        
               | theossuary wrote:
               | "Wow, you'd group people by their actions and beliefs but
               | not by immutable characteristics they were born with?!"
               | /s
        
               | 52-6F-62 wrote:
               | One of those is something people are born into without
               | choice. The other is chosen because of their tastes.
        
               | DrillShopper wrote:
               | Yes.
               | 
               | People can _leave_ the platform. They can 't leave their
               | race.
        
         | JKCalhoun wrote:
         | I think we can lament the old internet and still care nothing
         | for 4chan.
        
           | idiotsecant wrote:
           | Like it or not, 4chan was a major hub of Internet culture.
           | Especially early on some of the best stuff on the internet
           | happened on 4chan (and a good chunk of the worst, of course)
        
             | vlovich123 wrote:
             | 4chan was founded in 2003. I think reasonable people
             | probably disagree on what constitutes the "early" internet
             | and this is where the argument is. Google had been around
             | for 5 years by this point and I (and I suspect many others)
             | remained blissfully unaware of 4chan for a long time after
             | 2003.
        
               | ArinaS wrote:
               | I think anything before Frutiger Aero became popular (and
               | it didn't in 2003) can be considered "early" Internet.
        
               | vlovich123 wrote:
               | I hope you realize the irony of picking an arbitrary OS
               | theme, something that has no correlation to the Internet
               | in any way, as a meaningful point in the history of the
               | Internet.
               | 
               | As I said it's all arbitrary. I might pick the time
               | around Google's founding as the early Internet, others
               | might pick Yahoo, others might pick anything before
               | eternal September.
        
               | rob wrote:
               | You're trying to argue that 2003 isn't the early
               | Internet. Seems like you're trying to have your
               | "Ackchyually..." moment right now because you didn't know
               | 4chan existed.
        
               | vlovich123 wrote:
               | No, I'm saying the Internet was already in mass adoption
               | for the preceding decade. Talk to old timers and they'll
               | reminisce that the early days of the internet were great
               | until Eternal September in 93. Others will reminisce
               | about the days of BBS. I'm saying "early internet" is a
               | relative term that has more to do with the person
               | interpreting than any objective definition.
        
               | hollerith wrote:
               | I put the start of the _mainstreaming_ of the internet in
               | July 1993, the month a cartoon was published in the New
               | Yorker captioned,  "On the Internet, nobody knows you're
               | a dog": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Internet,_no
               | body_knows_...
               | 
               | Before then, it was quite unusual to see coverage of the
               | internet by the mainstream press (and what coverage I saw
               | took a theoretical or "far" view, i.e., as part of a
               | discussion of governmental policy). After then, coverage
               | exploded.
               | 
               | This is an American perspective: the timing was probably
               | different in other countries.
        
               | acheron wrote:
               | 2003 was _after the dot com boom and crash_. There is no
               | possible definition of  "early Internet" that can include
               | 2003.
        
               | tsumnia wrote:
               | It's clearly when AOL started offering a monthly
               | subscription for unlimited Internet usage.
        
               | klodolph wrote:
               | Frutiger Aero didn't exist before 2017.
        
               | ArinaS wrote:
               | It did since at least 2004[1].
               | 
               | [1] - https://yenimedya.aydin.edu.tr/wp-
               | content/uploads/2024/10/3....
        
               | klodolph wrote:
               | That's dated 2023... am I missing something? The
               | aesthetic did not exist in 2004. It was created in the
               | late 2010s by juxtaposing materials from the early 2000s.
               | This created a _new_ style from old materials. The same
               | way you might combine art deco motifs in new ways in the
               | 1980s, inventing "art deco revival".
        
               | ArinaS wrote:
               | > " _The aesthetic did not exist in 2004_ "
               | 
               | Well, this research states that " _Between 2004 and 2013,
               | Frutiger Aero was influential in advertising, media,
               | stock images, cinema, gaming, and spatial design_ ".
               | That's page 4.
        
               | klodolph wrote:
               | There's no justification given or source cited. You can't
               | just dig up a paper somebody wrote that agrees with you--
               | you have to actually read the paper to understand what it
               | says and what support it gives to that position.
               | 
               | I see NO support for this position. No reasoning, no
               | primary sources, no secondary sources, not even the
               | personal experiences of the author.
               | 
               | I have not seen any evidence that Frutiger Aero existed
               | before 2017, and 2017 seems like the most likely creation
               | date to me. That's when it was created, by combining
               | materials from the 2000s in new ways. Call it
               | "bricolage", perhaps.
               | 
               | Addenda: if you scroll through Google Image search
               | results for Frutiger Aero, you'll see what looks to me
               | like an obvious _lack_ of actual materials from the
               | 2000s. I see a screenshot of Windows XP, a screenshot of
               | the Nintendo Wii home screen. Maybe a few other random
               | screenshots of apps or web sites. As far as I can tell,
               | Frutiger Aero was invented by taking these few materials
               | and extrapolating a whole aesthetic movements out of it.
               | I see a lot of artwork dated from the 2020s labeled as
               | Frutiger Aero--that's the true nexus of the aesthetic,
               | Gen Z adults recreating a half-remembered image from
               | their childhoods. Which is fine. It's just not from 2004.
               | Like how Vaporwave is not actually from the 1990s or
               | 1980s, Vaporwave is from the mid-2010s. I love Vaporwave,
               | but I know that it's not from the past; it's a modern
               | remix of elements from the past.
        
               | rob wrote:
               | You're trying way too hard, dude - it's been around
               | before 2017.
        
               | klodolph wrote:
               | "Trying way too hard" means "I don't have anything
               | material to add to the discussion, I just want to mock
               | you for even caring about this."
               | 
               | Jeezus. Don't write comments like that. It's
               | inappropriate.
        
               | alabastervlog wrote:
               | Early Internet is before the Web was its main thing.
               | 
               | Early Web is before most netizens (remember that?) had
               | ever heard or seen the term "blog", and much of the web
               | was folks' "home pages" on whatever weird topic they were
               | interested in (some were effectively "blogging", but that
               | wasn't a term yet--"web log" might see limited use). This
               | was the Nerd Web.
               | 
               | Mid-period is from the rise of "blog" to the rise of the
               | smartphone, Google capitulating in the never-ending war
               | on spammers and ruining itself instead, and Facebook
               | coming about. Roughly '08 would be the end of this
               | period. Call this the Macromedia Flash Web, perhaps.
               | 
               | Everything since that is the Late, or Hellscape, Web, an
               | age dominated to an extreme degree by spam, scams, ads,
               | astroturfing, and absolute insanity becoming normalized
               | and spilling over into real life. This is the part that
               | made it clear we'd have been better off never inventing
               | any of this.
        
               | JKCalhoun wrote:
               | Regardless of date bracketing, I can miss 80's punk and
               | not miss slam dancing.
               | 
               | Maybe someone can list some positive internet culture we
               | got from 4chan that I am overlooking.
        
               | doublerabbit wrote:
               | 4chan is widely known for /b/ but it had and has much
               | more than /b. /b was always known for its murk.
               | 
               | Each chan sub category tended to their own niche
               | community and rivalry was little.
               | 
               | /f/ in its hayday was a wonderful creative group for
               | Flash animations and with existent of NewGrounds made the
               | internet fun. It's how I learnt flash and how YTMND came
               | to be.
        
               | throw10920 wrote:
               | GP is committing a variant of Chesterton's Fence where
               | they're actually proud of their ignorance of the fence.
               | 
               | Thank you for enlightening those of us who actually care
               | to know.
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | /g/ has a daily programming thread. I remember the
               | SerenityOS developer used to post webm demos there. I
               | remember seeing plenty of cool stuff.
               | 
               | Someone on /vr/ once started a thread about SNES homebrew
               | and actually made a /vr/ themed one. I wonder what
               | happened to that guy.
        
               | vermilingua wrote:
               | /dpt/ was where i did a good deal of my learning during
               | university, and the constant /g/entoo posting taught me
               | _far_ more about Linux than I would have learned on my
               | own or through uni.
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | /g/entoomen taught me a lot about Linux too. The desktop
               | and home server threads also have a lot of gold, people
               | put a lot of effort into their systems. There are even
               | Lisp generals. I remember people attempting the advent of
               | code together and posting progress. There was one person
               | who used _a lot of_ Unicode in the source code.
               | 
               | Just yesterday I saw a rather interesting discussion
               | about WD HDD internals and possible ways to figure out
               | whether they are SMR drives. Shame this hack cut it
               | short.
               | 
               | /tg/ had some seriously good chess players.
               | 
               | There's a board for everything. People see 4chan and
               | think everything is /pol/. If anything, it's /a/. People
               | have been arguing over which waifu is best girl for 20
               | years. _20 years._
        
               | subjectsigma wrote:
               | If you go look at Andreas' old videos from 5-6 years ago
               | you can see early versions of Serenity had some sort of
               | shortcut or app specifically for 4chan, with the clover
               | icon and everything.
               | 
               | There's actually a number of projects that started this
               | way though I don't know of any that grew up to be as
               | charming and interesting as Serenity OS. Katawa Shoujo is
               | one, though I could definitely see people complaining
               | about the games content. The Tox encrypted messenger is
               | one but I'm not sure that ever went anywhere.
               | 
               | I think most of them, like Andreas, dropped the
               | association with 4chan pretty soon after the project
               | started to gain real traction.
        
               | matheusmoreira wrote:
               | I remember seeing maybe two other operating system
               | projects on /g/dpt/, they didn't reach significant
               | maturity but managed to animate some graphics on the
               | screen. I remember seeing a bullet hell game engine
               | written in lisp, I think it was called gnumako or
               | something along those lines.
               | 
               | This was around 10 years ago...
        
               | TheAceOfHearts wrote:
               | That reminds me of this classic animation: 4chan city
               | [0]. Which is based on a 2ch animation Nightmare City
               | [1].
               | 
               | [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar4WzQ7KHak
               | 
               | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wjdi7a6L_78
        
               | 1970-01-01 wrote:
               | This is like saying death metal isn't upbeat music and
               | therefore nothing of value is lost by censoring it. Why
               | does 4chan have to be positive culture to be considered
               | valuable culture?
        
               | danaris wrote:
               | There's a big difference between "upbeat music" and
               | "positive culture".
               | 
               | "Positive" in this sense isn't being used to mean
               | "optimistic" or "happy". It's being used to mean "healthy
               | for the world at large".
               | 
               | Regardless of whether any of us agree that 4chan was a
               | net-negative, it should be very clear that "music that
               | doesn't have an upbeat sound or themes" is not inherently
               | unhealthy, but "subcultures that are unhealthy for the
               | world at large" _definitionally_ are.
        
               | 1970-01-01 wrote:
               | https://www.4chan.org/
               | 
               | You're dismissing the entire site for a handful of
               | events? How is 4chan unhealthy for the world, at large?
               | It was and is a counterculture for discussing life as
               | seen by its members.
        
               | JKCalhoun wrote:
               | They definitely have a PR issue then. Because of the
               | _handful of events_ , I've never been interested in
               | hanging out there.
               | 
               | From some of the comments though, there might have been
               | nice boards I would have enjoyed.
               | 
               | HN works for me though. (I can only spread myself so
               | thin.)
        
               | jrflowers wrote:
               | > How is 4chan unhealthy for the world, at large?
               | 
               | If you're interested in research, the _summary_ of
               | controversies and harassment incidents that were worthy
               | of the 4chan Wikipedia page(1) is over 2,000 words long
               | and links to seven other separate Wikipedia entries, and
               | may be a good start.
               | 
               | Also it is very funny that this thread seems to be
               | multiple different posters here insisting that the user
               | JKCalhoun is wrong for not being a fan of 4chan and that
               | personal opinion is somehow ahistorical and in need of
               | correction. Like the goal here is to make that person
               | post "You guys are right I actually like that website
               | now" ?
               | 
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/4chan
        
               | kelipso wrote:
               | I think the responses would've been different if he had
               | made a personal statement rather than a general
               | statement.
        
               | jrflowers wrote:
               | What post was that?
        
               | kelipso wrote:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43691576
        
               | jrflowers wrote:
               | This makes sense. This post that begins with "I think"
               | wasn't a personal statement of opinion but rather an
               | objective one becau
        
               | danaris wrote:
               | I'm not. I'm responding to the specific exchange between
               | you and JKCalhoun. They implied that they didn't know of
               | any positive culture from 4chan, and you took a sharp
               | left turn by misusing "positive"--taking a different
               | meaning of it and comparing that against death metal
               | music, rather than engaging with the actual meaning of
               | what JKCalhoun had said.
               | 
               | I was simply helping to clarify the semantic issue at
               | hand. I don't have enough personal knowledge of 4chan to
               | pass judgement on it one way or another.
        
               | numpad0 wrote:
               | Are there no big list of memes on 4chan? If you took an
               | intersection of that and list of memes in general, you
               | should be able to derive a list and statistical summary
               | figures for internet culture you've got from 4chan.
        
               | subjectsigma wrote:
               | I might be giving 4chan too much credit but I think in
               | your analogy it's more akin to 80's punk (broad
               | subculture) than slam dancing (specific cultural
               | phenomenon).
               | 
               | The way I see it, I lost interest in 4chan because I grew
               | up and became an adult, and so did most of the Internet.
               | We can look back and appreciate our childhood overall
               | while also cringing at the embarrassing parts. 4chan has
               | a lot of both good and bad memories for me and I think
               | the broader Internet as well.
        
               | JKCalhoun wrote:
               | I guess then I'm showing my age. I was already beginning
               | 40 years of age when 4chan became a thing.
        
               | tanepiper wrote:
               | 4chan: Because even Something Awful had some kind of
               | flawed moral compass
        
               | tonfreed wrote:
               | So did 4chan, god help you if you abused a cat
        
               | shadowgovt wrote:
               | There are some things not even Doom music can fix.
        
               | username332211 wrote:
               | Funny. The moral compass of most people on the internet
               | tends to be disordered enough to make me think Something
               | Awful must have been truly horrific.
               | 
               | For far too many people "I have a moral compass" seems to
               | mean "I don't even have the self-awareness to realize
               | what I'm doing is evil".
        
               | arkh wrote:
               | Yup, ytmnd predates it a couple year.
        
               | rjbwork wrote:
               | r9k is the origin of a huge amount of modern youth
               | culture and slang. The obsessive vanity and
               | "looksmaxxing" and all the associated terminology comes
               | directly out of the incel culture on that board. It is
               | extremely mainstream now.
        
               | xeromal wrote:
               | I think that's simply which generation is talking. I'm an
               | average (oldish?) millenial and 2003 is about that sweet
               | spot of when I cut my teeth on the web. I was online
               | before getting my butt kicked by koreans on starcraft but
               | I can find old posts of mine starting in those early
               | 2000s.
        
             | wegfawefgawefg wrote:
             | Many of the popular internet terms start on 4chan, and then
             | move to reddit and the rest of the internet, and then
             | eventually mainstream news, and 65 year olds mouths. This
             | process takes about 3-5 years.
        
             | ivan_gammel wrote:
             | Small pedantic correction: "major hub of Internet culture"
             | is "major subculture in English-speaking segment of
             | Internet" (American segment?). In many other languages it
             | was irrelevant.
        
               | desumeku wrote:
               | 4chan culture itself is derived from polish, finnish and
               | japanese imageboard culture and 4chan has always had a
               | large international userbase.
        
               | ivan_gammel wrote:
               | I'm sure it had. It doesn't mean it had equivalent
               | influence. In many places people won't name it in their
               | top 10 cultural phenomena of Internet of that period even
               | if they would remember it, which is far from guaranteed.
        
             | leemailll wrote:
             | early belongs to slashdot
        
               | vitaflo wrote:
               | Early belongs to Usenet.
        
             | esseph wrote:
             | It's so funny to read this.
             | 
             | I've been involved in "internet culture" since the early to
             | mid 90s.
             | 
             | The only thing that I heard about that ever came out of
             | 4chan was toxicity.
        
               | dmonitor wrote:
               | That's crazy. The whole "dank memes" thing and terms like
               | based, boomer, wojak, and soy are all from channer
               | culture. 4chan managed to brand gen Z as the "zoomer"
               | generation. Its cultural pervasiveness is impossibly
               | deep.
        
           | doublerabbit wrote:
           | Why? I am not pleased with the government forced pills such
           | as TikTok, Twitter and other such shite shoved down my
           | throat.
           | 
           | You may enjoy the walled garden, I for one don't. Such sites
           | gave you a hole to get away from the dystopian view that
           | these gardens hold.
           | 
           | They gave independence away from forced control.
        
             | ArinaS wrote:
             | > _" shoved down my throat."_
             | 
             | Who shoves it down someone's throat though? I can't
             | remember the last time I used tiktok, probably 3 or 4 years
             | ago, and I don't feel like anyone forces me to.
        
               | doublerabbit wrote:
               | Vendors. Mobile phone providers, Television companies,
               | News Corporations, Advertising companies.
               | 
               | I am locked out from viewing reading groups unless I have
               | a facebook account. I can't even read reviews on Amazon
               | without a Amazon account.
               | 
               | You do have the choice not to view, watch or use. And if
               | you desire to create your own site for "social media" the
               | uphill battle is so greatly regulated in their honour you
               | can't due to not having the resources to do so.
               | 
               | Have you read the new UK rule sheet for internet
               | websites?
               | 
               | How many sites do I visit where I get a Google popup
               | asking if I want to sign in?
               | 
               | Stack-overflow does this, Reddit does too.
        
               | ArinaS wrote:
               | > " _But if you desire to create your own site for social
               | media the uphill battle is so great regulated in their
               | honour, it 's not possible._"
               | 
               | Fediverse exists quite successfully.
        
               | doublerabbit wrote:
               | You mean an open-twitter clone that caters to a very
               | niche set of individuals? A complex system to work with.
               | 
               | I hate the whole gimmick of 150 character messages.
               | That's not independent like the web was once.
               | 
               | Discord makes you pay to upload videos, sounds and those
               | were all existing on MSN, Yahoo, A!M for free.
               | 
               | Everyone at my school knew of NewsGrounds, mySpace, BeBo,
               | LiveJournal. Me and my friends had hosted ProBoards
               | forums where we used to discuss stuff. You can't even do
               | that according to the new Ofcom laws.
        
               | ArinaS wrote:
               | > " _You mean an open-twitter clone that caters to a very
               | niche set of individuals?_ "
               | 
               | It's not just one instance and not even one frontend
               | existing for what can be described as "fediverse".
               | Decentralization is the whole point.
               | 
               | > " _a very niche set of individuals?_ "
               | 
               | Everything depends on the instance you're using. Some of
               | them, like mastodon.social, are very active, others are
               | not.
               | 
               | > " _I hate the whole gimmick of 150 character messages_
               | "
               | 
               | Find a better instance. On the one I use it's 2k
               | characters limit.
               | 
               | > " _That 's not independent web like it was._"
               | 
               | Yes, because it's a whole new level of independence.
               | NewGrounds, Myspace and everything you mentioned are
               | centralized platforms, which is practically vendor lock-
               | in, because you're dependent on just one vendor for
               | everything you do on these platforms, while on fediverse,
               | you aren't. Instances are completely (except for showing
               | posts from one another) independent from each other -
               | there's no central "authority" controlling all of them
               | like there would be on a centralized platform. Thousands
               | of them exist for every frontend imaginable, and you can
               | create one yourself.
        
               | awkwardpotato wrote:
               | The American government is actively working to move its
               | communication exclusively to Twitter.[0]
               | 
               | [0] https://www.wired.com/story/social-security-
               | administration-r...
        
             | officeplant wrote:
             | It's incredibly easy to just not use those websites. My
             | throat remains surprisingly clear with no effort.
        
               | Calinterman wrote:
               | It actually isn't, have you ever tried attending any real
               | life function? An account with Meta is almost a
               | requirement to even get in the door.
        
               | immibis wrote:
               | Uh, yes? What kind of functions are you trying to attend?
               | If you go to C3 and show people your Facebook account,
               | you will rightfully be mocked (unless it's an admin
               | account you're not supposed to have).
        
             | Calinterman wrote:
             | You better believe 4chan is as much of a government space
             | as those other social media sites are. Just because you
             | don't have to give three forms of ID and a mobile phone
             | number to post doesn't mean they're not involved.
             | 
             | It's an illusion, a very believable one in an internet
             | where billionaires try to goad you to include your name and
             | address with every thing you post. I don't see why people
             | care so much about Doxxing when every social media company
             | makes them do it for free.
        
         | knowknow wrote:
         | Is it considered part of it? From my understanding, the culture
         | has changed significantly and post get auto deleted eventually,
         | so it's not a good archive either. The only thing old about it
         | is it's web design
        
           | ltbarcly3 wrote:
           | Posts always got auto deleted. Maybe you aren't familiar with
           | how it worked.
        
             | morkalork wrote:
             | I haven't been there in like a decade but if nobody bumps
             | your thread eventually your post falls off the last page
             | and gets deleted no?
        
               | robobro wrote:
               | Yeah and if threads hit a certain reply count, they get
               | bump locked.
        
           | sznio wrote:
           | the mechanics are old
           | 
           | there's no other online community i know of that still allows
           | fully anonymous posting
           | 
           | the culture changed, but the "environment" causing the
           | culture there to be the way it is still same as the original.
           | 
           | the bump/delete mechanics work well to promote the most
           | controversial, most engaging content, without any advanced
           | statistics or ML.
           | 
           | despite being a shitty place, i don't feel advertised to,
           | spied or in any way abused _by the software itself_ while
           | browsing it
        
             | Shank wrote:
             | > there's no other online community i know of that still
             | allows fully anonymous posting
             | 
             | Doesn't 8chan/kun still exist?
        
             | TheAceOfHearts wrote:
             | Posting on 4chan just kept becoming increasingly user
             | hostile, especially for casual users, you had to be really
             | determined to post something: posts started requiring 24
             | hour email verification, and after that you had to wait ~10
             | minutes before being allowed to post, and finally you had
             | to complete a nearly impossible captcha which could lock
             | you out from posting for an undetermined amount of time
             | just for failing. It became apparent that the owners were
             | pushing the gold pass pretty damn hard, and it's advertised
             | on literally every board page.
        
               | rasengan wrote:
               | That's true. The captcha is impossible without the 4chan
               | pass.
               | 
               | soj.ooO [1] which is similar on the other hand doesn't
               | have the captcha.
               | 
               | [1] https://soj.ooO
        
               | pc86 wrote:
               | Not sure what this random unknown website has to do with
               | 4chan. It's similar only insofar as both things let you
               | post. Soj requires a sign-up so no anon posting at all,
               | and the community structure is a pretty clear rip-off of
               | Reddit with /p/[sub] instead of /r/[sub]
               | 
               | What is your affiliation with it?
        
             | DrillShopper wrote:
             | > there's no other online community i know of that still
             | allows fully anonymous posting
             | 
             | Usenet?
             | 
             | It even has the issue of old posts disappearing when the
             | retention at your UNIX system / ISP rolled over.
        
           | nemomarx wrote:
           | every board had it's own independent archiving service after
           | a while, so board culture ended up stickier than the original
           | design. there's some interesting stuff in there
        
         | fny wrote:
         | Where do you see info about personal info?
         | 
         | I would presume Anon would which to remain anon.
        
         | mattlondon wrote:
         | I'd hardly call it the "old internet". It is _very_ niche, and
         | has not been around that long really - like what 2003 or
         | something? Nothing compared to e.g. Geocities which was early-
         | mid 90s IIRC which I 'd argue had more relevance to people than
         | 4chan.
        
           | davedx wrote:
           | Geocities was going strong in the late 90's too! My first
           | homepage was hosted there on Tokyo Towers.
        
           | MagicMoonlight wrote:
           | 22 years is old. Nobody knows what geocities is, it has no
           | relevance. It's like talking about brands of telegraph wire.
        
             | crtasm wrote:
             | Geocities was _the_ place to create and visit homepages for
             | a large percentage of people using the internet in the 90s.
             | You can see its influence in games such as Hypnospace
             | Outlaw and modern hosts like Neocities.
        
               | karn97 wrote:
               | Hypnospace outlaw and neocities, both even less known lol
        
               | crtasm wrote:
               | What are the most popular games on Steam that focus on
               | interacting with a 4chan-like website?
        
               | sickofparadox wrote:
               | There are none because people can just go on 4chan and
               | post.
        
           | dfxm12 wrote:
           | "Old Internet" doesn't have a very defined meaning, but I
           | think it has more to do with design and functionality than a
           | hard date. While I don't think relevance matters, 4chan is
           | much more relevant than you think. Having a niche is part of
           | the old Internet. Websites used to be niche, but deep,
           | instead of websites like Wikipedia, which are broad and
           | shallow (compare the Castlevania dungeon [0] to the Wikipedia
           | article for Castlevania, for example). Then compare 4chan's
           | limited number of boards with reddit's endless subs. 4chan's
           | design is early web 2.0, doesn't require you create an
           | account, allows (pseudo) anonymous posting, content is mostly
           | unfiltered, unmonetized, free & thought of as ephemeral, etc.
           | 
           | 0 - https://castlevaniadungeon.net/dungeon.html
        
             | mattlondon wrote:
             | > 4chan's design is early web 2.0, doesn't require you
             | create an account, allows (pseudo) anonymous posting,
             | content is mostly unfiltered, unmonetized, free & thought
             | of as ephemeral, etc.
             | 
             | That is hardly unique. There are any number of phpbb (and
             | other) boards that allow mostly the same that were/are/will
             | continue to be the same. The only difference is the
             | clientele and noteriaty, but I'd argue 4chan is basically
             | the same thing as somethingawful is/was in that regard.
             | People act like 4chan was this ground-breaking thing but it
             | was just one of many many similar boards.
             | 
             | Also for 4chan, you'd only go to 4chan to _go to 4chan_.
             | People went to geocities and xoom and angelfire and _all
             | the other_ old internet things for niche website content
             | from individuals, not because of the site that hosted it.
             | It 's like going to a bar to chat vs going to a library to
             | study: going to the bar/4chan is an undeniable part of the
             | culture, but let's not pretend it is anything significantly
             | different amongst a constellation of other chat/forum sites
             | (somethingawful, fark, ebaumsworld, discord, IRC etc etc
             | etc)
        
               | dfxm12 wrote:
               | The point wasn't about if 4chan is unique.
        
               | mattlondon wrote:
               | Exactly.
        
             | gilbetron wrote:
             | "Pre Dot Com Bust" is a pretty good definition for "Old
             | Internet".
        
             | Klonoar wrote:
             | This is the dumbest nitpick, but:
             | 
             |  _> 4chan 's design is early web 2.0_
             | 
             | Web 2.0 (even early) was very JS heavy, coming down from
             | the advent of Mootools/Prototype/etc and had a very
             | specific visual design sense.
             | 
             | 4chan is easily the last of the Web 1.0 sites, probably up
             | there with Craigslist. They very much "just fucking work".
        
           | Andrex wrote:
           | Web 2.0 and before is now considered the old internet.
        
           | johnnyjeans wrote:
           | It is not very niche at all. 4chan served a gigantic volume
           | of traffic.
        
           | PhunkyPhil wrote:
           | Side note: When you google "Geocities" the results are in
           | comic sans
        
         | imzadi wrote:
         | I grew up on IRC, had sites on Geocities and Angelfire. That
         | was the old internet people miss, not 4chan.
        
         | happytoexplain wrote:
         | _Was_ part of it. As somebody who has been trapped there since
         | 2004, I 'd say it evolved into a part of the normal internet
         | between 2010 and 2016 (i.e. it had already fully transformed
         | before Trump's first term), where "normal internet" means being
         | infested with uncle-on-Facebook-tier political posts, "jokes"
         | where the punchline is "I hate my political enemies", etc.
         | Creative irreverence was replaced with regular childishness.
         | 
         | Mostly because, as more people came online, they mistook
         | offensive humor for conservatism; and thought "counter-culture"
         | meant "being opposed to the political party currently in
         | power", rather than "being opposed to political parties".
        
           | pjc50 wrote:
           | > mistook offensive humor for conservatism
           | 
           | Something happened in the post-2010 times along with the Tea
           | Party, and offensive humor - especially overt racism - became
           | a mainstream part of conservativism, all the way to the White
           | House.
           | 
           | > "jokes" where the punchline is "I hate my political
           | enemies"
           | 
           | Hence the laughter in the White House at refusing to follow
           | the court order to return their political enemies from the
           | overseas prison.
           | 
           | 4chan may have died, but Trump is more the first 4chan
           | President than Howard Dean was the first "internet
           | candidate", and especially Musk the Twitter Presidential
           | Vizir is the heir to this culture.
        
           | johnnyjeans wrote:
           | Incredibly spot-on and well-put.
        
           | h2zizzle wrote:
           | Considering that the people posting this "creative
           | irreverence" were the same guys calling you a "stupid f*gg*t
           | n*gger piece of sh*t" on Halo 2/3 and CS when they got
           | noscoped from across the map or whatever, "It's just a joke"
           | has always been somewhat suspect. It would be wrong to say
           | that there was no element of tongue-in-cheek-iness and
           | hyperbole, of course. It just wasn't completely innocent,
           | broadly speaking.
           | 
           | Of course, in a post-Bioshock Infinite world, there's really
           | no excuse for not grokking how time and distance from the
           | origins of a cultural behavior pattern can warp even well-
           | meaning notions that aren't regularly re-examined and tuned
           | to align the intention with the zeitgeist. If the Sarah
           | Silverman-esque posters ever looked up and realized, "Oh,
           | they don't know it's a joke, they're ACTUALLY Nazis," it was
           | too late to shift things back. (Unless you were in a
           | Boondocks thread on /co/, in which case correction was freely
           | forthcoming.)
           | 
           | Probably didn't help that at least one mod wanted 4chan to
           | become more racist, on purpose.
        
         | DrillShopper wrote:
         | 4chan is not "old internet". Not even close. It's predated by a
         | bunch of forums (including 2channel) on the Internet, some
         | anonymous.
        
         | p3rls wrote:
         | It's not so much that we lament the old internet, we lament
         | that the new internet cannot be built because incumbents like
         | google have distorted the playing field with shitty algorithmic
         | SEO practices-- which really has nothing to do with 4chan at
         | all.
        
       | cbg0 wrote:
       | Hosting a copy of phpMyAdmin behind basic HTTP authentication in
       | 2025 really is asking for it.
        
         | jsheard wrote:
         | I was kinda surprised to see that phpMyAdmin is still
         | maintained, albeit only barely. The last release was in January
         | but before that it hadn't been touched for over two years.
        
           | pelagicAustral wrote:
           | This stuff is still packaged with cPanel, which is probably
           | the most common way to manage web servers on the internet.
        
             | Macha wrote:
             | I wonder how long it's been since that was true. I think
             | that era passed when most small businesses and individuals
             | moved from self hosting to SaaS.
        
               | technion wrote:
               | Nearly every website developer servicing small business
               | builds a WordPress site and sets it up on a hosting
               | company's cPanel install with phpmyadmin running by
               | default.
        
               | jsheard wrote:
               | I guess those installs are the ones the Wordpress vuln
               | scanners are looking for when they spam my server with
               | /wp-admin/ requests.
        
               | Macha wrote:
               | Which are far far outnumbered by people setting up
               | squarespace sites, or shopify sites or facebook pages or
               | twitter profiles these days.
               | 
               | It was definitely true at one point that small scale
               | indie web devs and small business contractors outnumbered
               | big tech in both headcount and servers. I don't think
               | that's been true for a while now.
        
               | mmcwilliams wrote:
               | Do you have figures for that?
        
               | doublerabbit wrote:
               | I serve a cPanel hosting, some people just want something
               | up and running now which cPanel provides.
               | 
               | With Softaculous for automatic installation of scripts
               | it's still widely popular for Wordpress installations.
               | Web hosting is however a very dead market to startup in.
        
         | whalesalad wrote:
         | A tale as old as time
        
         | TonyTrapp wrote:
         | Can you please elaborate how it is "asking for it" if we assume
         | the basic auth password is reasonably complex and kept as safe
         | as, say, the SSH login credentials of the same server?
        
           | cbg0 wrote:
           | You shouldn't be logging in to a server via SSH using a
           | user+password combo, instead use a public/private key combo
           | which is considerably more complex and can't effectively be
           | bruteforced like a user+password.
           | 
           | Most web servers don't really come with any built in defense
           | against brute force attempts vs Basic Auth gates, so unless
           | you've set something up to protect it, someone with enough
           | time will eventually get in.
        
             | lossolo wrote:
             | > someone with enough time will eventually get in
             | 
             | That's only correct if the password is weak. With enough
             | entropy, it's practically impossible to brute force.
        
             | ArinaS wrote:
             | > " _can 't effectively be bruteforced like a
             | user+password._"
             | 
             | Only when the password is weak enough to bruteforce
             | swiftly. It will take literally thousands of years to
             | bruteforce strong passwords.
        
               | DrillShopper wrote:
               | But you only need one weak password to get in
        
               | that_guy_iain wrote:
               | But you only need one password to protect your HTTP auth
               | phpMyAdmin so just make it 30 characters.
        
             | voidUpdate wrote:
             | Genuine question that I haven't found a good solution to
             | yet, if I want to just go to any old computer and ssh into
             | my server, do I have to carry around a USB stick with the
             | ssh key on or something? because I sure as hell wont be
             | able to just remember it
        
               | pjc50 wrote:
               | The preferred solution would be something like a Yubikey.
               | However:
               | 
               | > just go to any old computer and ssh into my server
               | 
               | You've typed your password into a computer you don't
               | control. Now it's gone. Same for plugging in the USB
               | stick. The Yubikey approach mitigates that.
               | 
               | Assuming you want to do this, the best practice you can
               | achieve is just making the password long.
        
               | theossuary wrote:
               | In that case I'd normally recommend a bastion host with
               | SSH MFA and fail2ban. It'd be publicly available and have
               | SSH keys for other machines. Or you could look at setting
               | up a VPN solution with MFA, but never have a password
               | only admin login exposed to the public Internet.
        
           | ceejayoz wrote:
           | I haven't used it for many years now, but phpMyAdmin was long
           | a source of compromises. Lots of security holes.
        
             | TonyTrapp wrote:
             | That's my point - if you have a reasonably secure password
             | (let's say 50-100 characters, fully random), it's extremely
             | unlikely that anyone is ever going to even get beyond the
             | basic auth prompt.
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | Until there's a bug that lets you bypass it.
        
               | TonyTrapp wrote:
               | Then you should also be worried about bugs that let you
               | log into an SSH session without providing your SSH
               | certificate, passkey or whatever. Authentication bypass
               | can happen with pretty much _any_ buggy authentication
               | method. None of this is inherently a problem of passwords
               | or basic auth.
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | Sure, but phpMyAdmin has a _long_ history of major
               | security holes. It 's existence on a server tends to be a
               | red flag.
        
               | TonyTrapp wrote:
               | Again, the premise was that phpMyAdmin is secured behind
               | basic auth. It doesn't matter how secure or insecure
               | phpMyAdmin is, it only matters how secure whatever
               | webserver is that it is served through. phpMyAdmin code
               | isn't even touched before the basic auth login was
               | successful. Only after that, it becomes relevant, in that
               | you either find a hole in phpMyAdmin itself, or you have
               | to break another (hopefully strong) password for the
               | MySQL login itself.
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | It's not using the webserver's basic auth, it's using
               | their own implementation (https://github.com/phpmyadmin/p
               | hpmyadmin/blob/297c1e174b93a9..., via PHP's:
               | https://www.php.net/manual/en/features.http-auth.php).
        
               | TonyTrapp wrote:
               | You can easily put phpMyAdmin _behind_ basic auth as an
               | additional security layer, completely bypassing any PHP
               | execution and letting the web server completely handle
               | the authentication. It 's exactly what I have done
               | multiple times in the past. Arguably phpMyAdmin's direct
               | integration is a less secure way of doing it, but do we
               | even know if it's the basic auth itself that was
               | bypassed, or was it just the case of a weak password?
        
               | ceejayoz wrote:
               | Sure, and I can put the VX gas vials in a safe in my
               | basement, but I'd rather not have them anywhere near me
               | _at all_.
        
           | udev4096 wrote:
           | A password is just plain text, which apart from being
           | bruteforced, can easily be phished. There are so many things
           | wrong with using a password even if it's fairly complex.
           | Instead, stick to passkeys and SSH keys
        
         | lossolo wrote:
         | Sure, if you slap Basic Auth with "admin:admin" on phpMyAdmin
         | in 2025, you're asking for it. But a Basic Auth password with
         | 256 bits of entropy is just as resistant to brute force as
         | AES-256 (assuming the implementation is sound and TLS is used).
         | It's not the protocol that's insecure, it's usually how it's
         | deployed.
        
           | andruby wrote:
           | Only if it's only accessible via proper TLS (otherwise it's
           | easy to read the user/pass with MITM as basic auth doesn't
           | encrypt the user/pass).
           | 
           | If there is no throttling/rate-limiting/banning then this
           | setup allows for a lot of attempts, wether brute-force or
           | dictionary.
        
             | RockRobotRock wrote:
             | What is "a lot of attempts"? I'm no expert in cryptography,
             | but there's many orders of magnitude difference between a
             | distributed bruteforce of a known hash, and bruteforcing
             | over the web.
        
         | ndiddy wrote:
         | The hacker posted a screenshot of the shell on the 4chan
         | server. It was running FreeBSD 10.1, which came out in 2014 and
         | stopped getting patches in 2016. It seems like there was
         | basically nobody doing maintenance after moot sold the site. I
         | wonder how long it'll take for them to get the site back up if
         | they don't have anyone who can do server administration.
        
       | trallnag wrote:
       | Jannies had it coming tbh. They were certainly tightening the
       | rope when it came to free speech in the last few years
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | Always curious to know what kind of speech this kind of
         | complaint refers to.
        
           | krige wrote:
           | Free. In practice whatever a given janny doesn't like gets
           | the boot. The moderation can get REALLY schizophrenic
           | depending on time zone, and there are persistent rumors that
           | certain boards are controlled by groups of interest (notably
           | the cesspool known as /pol/ is very astroturfed).
        
             | giraffe_lady wrote:
             | Free isn't a kind of speech, it describes a condition under
             | which speech is performed. Their question was what _kind_
             | of speech is being alluded to.
        
               | krige wrote:
               | Their question was a gotcha attempt, and a misguided one
               | at that, hence the answer specifically not playing along.
        
               | giraffe_lady wrote:
               | Once you've made this many comments about it and are
               | still unwilling to describe the acts you're defending I
               | would certainly call that playing.
        
             | kotaKat wrote:
             | There's also a "janitortest" account in the leaked list
             | @4chan.org so who knows if there was just a shared password
             | flying around...
        
           | A_D_E_P_T wrote:
           | It's not what you think.
           | 
           | Let me give you an example. /k/ is the weapons/military
           | forum, and it's unironically run by US government
           | authorities. Vulgar racial slurs are wholly permitted -- but
           | if you question certain aspects of US military or foreign
           | policy, or suggest that Russia/China/etc. aren't houses of
           | cards that will topple the moment the US wills it, your
           | comment will probably be deleted and you'll be hit with a
           | 3-day ban.
        
           | kcatskcolbdi wrote:
           | Are you genuinely curious, or do you already know this kind
           | of complaint refers to offensive, racist, hateful speech
           | (otherwise known as the type of speech that requires
           | protection, since civil speech that agrees with the popular
           | worldviews does not need protecting)?
        
         | snvzz wrote:
         | Blaming the victims is not cool.
         | 
         | Particularly, when these are good people who put a lot of
         | effort into keeping 4chan a pleasant community, by e.g.
         | removing hate speech and CSAM, as well as banning offenders.
        
           | trallnag wrote:
           | My comment wasn't completely serious and should be taken with
           | a grain of salt. But for example there is / was a German
           | janitor or moderator that that treated the German general on
           | /int/ as his personal safe space
        
           | mardifoufs wrote:
           | 4chan janitors aren't victims of anything no matter what
           | happens to them.
        
           | shadowgovt wrote:
           | It's a web forum, not a Superfund site.
           | 
           | Instead of burning personal time and energy on trying to
           | clean up 4chan, a person can always just... Not.
           | 
           | Let it burn and sink into the swamp. Stop making that DNS
           | query.
        
       | geriatric-janny wrote:
       | My official association with 4chan ended in 2010, but I still
       | recognise a good third of those names and would wager the leak is
       | legit.
        
         | delusional wrote:
         | What kind of official association could one have with 4chan?
         | 4chan was formative for my early connection to the internet,
         | and I'm really curious what the organization behind it looked
         | like. Was it professionally driven, or just some random guy
         | mailing checks? stuff like that.
        
           | no_time wrote:
           | Well... A full dump of the board exclusive to moderators and
           | janitors was leaked too so now you could take a look
           | yourself.
        
           | geriatric-janny wrote:
           | I lied about my age and was given janitor access in the mid
           | 2000s. There was a special /j/ board to coordinate on, but it
           | broke relatively early, and you mostly had to hang out in the
           | #janiteam channel on Rizon. I think almost everybody else was
           | underage as well. There was a minimal web overlay that let
           | you delete/escalate posts. You couldn't see people's IPs, but
           | you could see how many outstanding ban requests they had.
           | These numbers helped me deduce that many boards' most
           | infamous personalities were all the same guy.
           | 
           | We were all offered the chance to become mods in 2010, but
           | moot wanted to see our faces on a Skype call. I thought that
           | was a step too far and just gradually stopped caring after
           | that. Seems like I made the right choice.
           | 
           | On the whole it was barely held together technically and
           | organisationally, mostly run by moot's personal friends, and
           | fun all around. Things were far less serious then.
           | 
           | And the checks arrived on time every month: $0.00
        
             | delusional wrote:
             | Sounds about like what I would have expected as a (also
             | underage) user at the time. The suspicion was always that
             | most of the memorable joke chains were probably just one
             | guy self-replying (I always suspected that was the case for
             | the hunter2 meme specifically). It didn't really matter, it
             | was funny anyway.
             | 
             | Thanks for taking the time to reply, and thanks for the fun
             | back then :)
        
             | petecooper wrote:
             | >And the checks arrived on time every month: $0.00
             | 
             | Unexpectedly poignant.
        
             | dmonitor wrote:
             | > These numbers helped me deduce that many boards' most
             | infamous personalities were all the same guy.
             | 
             | Simultaneously one of the best and worst parts about the
             | website was how much a single person could create
             | influence. Some guy spamposting "30-year old boomer" memes
             | eventually turned boomer and zoomer into mainstream
             | terminology.
             | 
             | I remember a long time ago, a general that I would frequent
             | attracted the attention of a lunatic who would frequently
             | try to ruin threads by spam posting corrupted unloadable
             | images until the bumpcap was reached. It made a successful
             | thread with no incidents feel like a moment of success.
        
               | kelipso wrote:
               | Milhouse is still not a meme.
        
             | newZWhoDis wrote:
             | For those OOTL about that last part, a common meme/troll of
             | the moderators/jannies is
             | 
             | "They do it for free"
             | 
             | People would post rule breaking content and say "clean it
             | up janny"
        
         | blitzar wrote:
         | Username checks out.
        
         | Blikkentrekker wrote:
         | So you were able to find the leak? Because I see reports that
         | it was hacked repeated as fact everywhere on _Daily Mail_ -tier
         | reliable news websites and Reddit posts, but they are all based
         | on "rumors on social media go about that there was a leak" but
         | I've not been able to find the actual leak searching for it.
         | Obviously not many people want to link it but it's also weird
         | that so many people claim to have so easily been able to find
         | it when I cannot.
         | 
         | Finally, I was there and using it when the website went down
         | and this did not resemble an actual hack but technical issues.
         | First there were a couple of hours where the website was up but
         | no posts went through for anyone except occasionally when a new
         | threat was bumped, mirroring the normal pattern of downtime
         | issues that sometimes occur and then it just went down
         | completely. This doesn't really resemble how a hack plays out
         | but looks more like technical issues to me.
         | 
         | Even now, going to the front page, it loads for me, except very
         | slowly and incompletely. This does not resemble a hack but
         | technical issues.
        
           | DaSHacka wrote:
           | I would've taken you less time to find the 'sinister' content
           | yourself than leave this sprawling reply
           | 
           | To your point:
           | 
           | It's more likely than not real, it contains configs for the
           | entire site.
        
             | Blikkentrekker wrote:
             | Well, so you say, but every single news website that I can
             | find willing to say something on the matter is either The
             | _Daily Mail_ and similar things that also say they based
             | their information on leaks on "social media rumors" or more
             | reputable websites that also say it 's a rumor that there's
             | a leak. One would assume if it be so easily found and I'm
             | so incompetent that these news websites could've found it
             | themselves and come with more certain claims.
        
               | DaSHacka wrote:
               | I left a clue in my original reply.
               | 
               | I'm not spoonfeeding any harder than that.
               | 
               | Lurk moar or GTFO
        
               | azernik wrote:
               | If you're looking for a link to the results of illegal
               | hacking, then I humbly suggest that aboveboard news sites
               | are not the place to look.
        
               | Blikkentrekker wrote:
               | I'm saying I searched and I couldn't find it but what I
               | did find was many news websites that reported it but said
               | they couldn't confirm these rumors themselves and said
               | they were just that, rumors. I found threads about it on
               | other anonymous textboards where people would have no
               | compunction to post the links and yet they didn't. The
               | news sites don't just say "We obviously won't post the
               | links." but "We couldn't confirm these rumors.".
               | 
               | Edit: I finally found one news website willing to
               | actually confirm it though. The Daily Dot claims to have
               | accessed the leaked information and verified it for
               | itself.
        
       | wickedsight wrote:
       | This makes me wonder whether there's anything in there that can
       | point to the identity of the original QAnon. That would be a
       | pretty interesting outcome.
        
         | swarnie wrote:
         | Aren't we 99% sure that was a Ron Watkins grift now?
        
           | wickedsight wrote:
           | That's why I wrote 'the original'. It's very possible Watkins
           | took control after Q moved from 4Chan to 8Chan from what I've
           | read. I'm far from fully up-to-date on this saga though.
        
         | ribosometronome wrote:
         | Given the nature of the hackers and their immediate actions, it
         | seems unlikely they would reveal that sort of information.
        
         | Borgz wrote:
         | 4chan doesn't store threads for very long, hence the plethora
         | of third-party archive sites. I doubt they are still storing
         | any useful data from back then.
        
       | SirFatty wrote:
       | Surprised that the admins have any personal details associated
       | with their 4chan profile.
        
       | OuterVale wrote:
       | Posted link is a tad vulgar and scarce on information. A bit of a
       | collection forming on The Sun's live blog post:
       | 
       | Thousands of 4Chan users report issues accessing controversial
       | website - https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/34472708/4chan-down-
       | updates-co...
        
         | dang wrote:
         | (Posted link was originally https://old.reddit.com/r/4chan/comm
         | ents/1jzkjlg/4chan_hacked.... We since changed it.)
        
       | TheAceOfHearts wrote:
       | There's a KnowYourMeme [0] post with additional details and
       | context. Most interesting to me is finding out that there' s a
       | word filer / transformer, so SMH becomes BAKA and TBH becomes
       | DESU, as two examples.
       | 
       | [0] https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/events/april-2025-4chan-hack
        
         | tanjtanjtanj wrote:
         | Yep, it's been that way for 20+ years!
         | 
         | The term "weeaboo" as a term for western anime fans only came
         | about because it was what the word "wapanese" filtered to. It
         | was originally a nonsense work made up in a Perry Bible
         | Fellowship comic.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | That does seem to have more information, so I've changed the
         | top url to that from https://old.reddit.com/r/4chan/comments/1j
         | zkjlg/4chan_hacked.... Thanks!
        
       | swarnie wrote:
       | One of the best websites on the internet. Hopefully not gone
       | forever.
        
       | rootsudo wrote:
       | Wow doxing the Jannies!
       | 
       | I mean, wow, they're doxing people that helped keep a legacy
       | internet place alive and compliant with the law.
       | 
       | Who would do that?
        
         | masfuerte wrote:
         | The man.
        
         | joseda-hg wrote:
         | Sound right up the alley for a 4chan user
        
         | t0lo wrote:
         | Whoever's trying their hardest to shut down the rest of the
         | free internet as well. I do think these actions we've seen in
         | the last 5 years are co-ordinated. Will post sources soon
        
       | jmyeet wrote:
       | 4chan will be studied for years for its role in alt-right
       | radicalization as well as being a baroemeter for young male
       | discontent.
       | 
       | For example, QAnon started on 4chan (I believe as a joke?) [1].
       | Nowadays a lot of 4chan users and traffic have since migrated to
       | Twitter for pretty obvious reasons. Pseudo-intellectual racism
       | has a lot of roots in 4chan (eg the popularity of Julius Evola
       | [2]) that's deeply tied to "trad" content, Andrew Tate fandom,
       | the manosphere and "self-improvement" [3].
       | 
       | Things like the Bored Ape Yacht Club originated on 4chan and it's
       | full of racist memes [4]. A lot of racist and antisemitic memes
       | originated on 4chan.
       | 
       | Worst of all, it seems like Elon Musk is motivated by a deep
       | desire to be liked by 4chan [5].
       | 
       | So the point is that 4chan users (and admins) have a lot of real-
       | world influence and that's kinda scary. It also makes them a
       | target for this kind of hack. I suspect a lot of people will be
       | exposed by this and in more than a few cases, you'll find ties to
       | the current administration.
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/how-three-
       | conspiracy-...
       | 
       | [2]: https://jacobin.com/2022/12/fascism-far-right-evola-
       | bannon-b...
       | 
       | [3]: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-021-00732-x
       | 
       | [4]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpH3O6mnZvw
       | 
       | [5]: https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2025/4/6/how-musk-
       | ushered...
        
         | VectorLock wrote:
         | I would be 0% surprised to see Stephen Miller's information in
         | this leak.
        
           | howmayiannoyyou wrote:
           | If you're looking for malign influence on 4chan - look
           | outside the US. Anyone on /pol/ and /k/ after Oct 7th
           | understands clearly who has been influencing if not
           | controlling the site.
        
         | properpopper wrote:
         | For users who aren't familiar with 4chan - this post describes
         | only one board - /pol/, where you can find hateful posts about
         | every race and religion. 4chan have 30+ boards in total
        
           | CodeCompost wrote:
           | Well that's OK then.
           | 
           | /s
        
           | wegfawefgawefg wrote:
           | To add context, every male in my high school went on that
           | site. Pol was just a place crazy people posted. We used to
           | laugh and read eachother dumb copypastas at lunch with
           | gorgonzola cheese rhymes and bad puns.
           | 
           | The average 15yo boy have enough mental hygiene to know
           | everything you read online is false. The website is not a
           | nazi factory.
        
             | rescbr wrote:
             | > The average 15yo boy have enough mental hygiene to know
             | everything you read online is false. The website is not a
             | nazi factory.
             | 
             | The real problem is when the internet leaks and boomers
             | assume everything they read online is true.
             | 
             | Worst part of it all? My parents always told me not to
             | trust what's on the internet, and now I have to tell them
             | 99% of what they see on FB or whatever is AI trash and
             | lies.
        
             | Philpax wrote:
             | Hmm, I'm not sure all 15 year old boys do, though:
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Buffalo_shooting
        
             | pjc50 wrote:
             | Perhaps the _average_ one does, but some get sucked in, and
             | if there 's no Nazi factory where are all the nazis coming
             | from?
             | 
             | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cqx4wlynjw5o
             | 
             | How many mass shooters had obvious 4chan radicalization
             | roots? Christchurch definitely.
             | 
             | > everything you read online is false
             | 
             | In its own way, this is also poisonous. It enables
             | holocaust denialists and anti-vaxxers: after all, vaccines
             | and holocaust memorials are on the mainstream internet, so
             | they must be false, right?
        
             | GuinansEyebrows wrote:
             | They didn't in 4chans heyday and they certainly don't now.
             | Hell, adults with decades of life experience can't figure
             | this out either.
        
             | LinuxBender wrote:
             | Adding even more context /pol/ is about who can be the most
             | edgy edgelord of the hour. I doubt there are more than half
             | a dozen actual racists people on it not counting 4Chan-GPT.
        
               | trealira wrote:
               | It's not hard to find people with a racist /pol/er's
               | opinions in real life, or on other social media like
               | Instagram or Twitter. Maybe /pol/ in particular is/was
               | filled with bots, I don't know, but such extreme racism
               | is not as uncommon as you imply these days.
        
               | LinuxBender wrote:
               | They put on a good show. Real racist people post videos
               | of the f&#$ed up things they do to others that I won't
               | even describe here. They know better than to use a clear-
               | web site _especially one using a CDN_ to show off their
               | behavior. Those forums are on Tor.
               | 
               | 4chan is nearly all angsty edgy teens on their cell
               | phones at school trying to act tough and edgy and even
               | they get arrested when talking tough about cops or
               | pulling shenanigans like defacing or vandalizing property
               | to _be cool_. That 's a different interesting topic.
               | Search youtube for all the 4chan unstable kids getting
               | arrested. It's on-par with all the unstables vandalizing
               | Tesla cars.
        
               | trealira wrote:
               | Well, I believe you that there are lots of kids there
               | that try to seem racist for 4chan cred, and I guess
               | people would know not to post videos of themselves doing
               | those illegal things.
               | 
               | But I remember they had stuff like "n*gger chimpout"
               | compilation threads, and whenever people talk about what
               | they blame on Jews, they seem to be actually bitter and
               | angry, so they do seem legitimately racist. I wouldn't be
               | surprised if there was a lot of overlap with the people
               | who do commit those acts of violence you're talking
               | about, but even if not, I don't think you could say
               | they're not real racists just because they don't post
               | videos of themselves committing violent hate crimes. The
               | board is just diluted by low-effort threads and bait by
               | users of other boards.
        
               | LinuxBender wrote:
               | _But I remember they had stuff like "n_gger chimpout"
               | compilation threads*
               | 
               | I guess that's why we don't really see quite eye-to-eye
               | on this. I've seen all those threads and to me that's
               | just kids being edgy because they know it triggers or
               | activates people. Every group has it's trash and they are
               | just singling out one specific groups shenanigans. The
               | same behavior can be found of every breed of human and
               | they would post it if it was edgy to do so. My breed has
               | no shortage of dumb behavior but when it's posted people
               | feel comfortable laughing at it thus it's not edgy or
               | taboo enough.
               | 
               | As a side note, most of the kids on 4chan are also here
               | on HN. They talk about this site, its users and dang all
               | the time. I'm sure they are not happy that I am pointing
               | out they are just LARPing.
        
               | trealira wrote:
               | Compilation threads like those seem to me more like ways
               | to make each other angrier and more racist. I think they
               | legitimately just hate black people. Like, there's
               | definitely some element of smug self-aware memey edginess
               | about being racist, but there's also unironic vitriolic
               | racism. But yeah, I guess we just disagree here on this.
        
           | jmyeet wrote:
           | This is /pol/ focused, yes, but the other boards aren't
           | separate worlds. It's all part of what many call the "alt-
           | right pipeline" and it's subtle and insidious.
           | 
           | For example, many (particularly women) have consumed Candace
           | Owens's content about the Blake Lively / Justin Baldoni saga,
           | just like many followed certain creators with the Amber Heard
           | trial. Both of thse fall squarely on the alt-right pipeline.
           | 
           | So you may start folloing 9gag. Particularly if you're young,
           | you may enjoy being "edgy" but a bunch of that is actually
           | normalizing right-wing views. Even seeking validation on /b/
           | fits this.
        
             | arandomusername wrote:
             | How is this different from, for example, reddit? You may
             | start following reddit, niche subreddits, but in reality
             | it's normalizing left-wing views
        
             | attemptone wrote:
             | How "subtle and insidious" is it really? I'd say it is
             | shifting the blame of personal responsability to a website.
             | Me and some of my friends use(d) 4chan and we never fell
             | into the pipeline. To the contrary there is a strong left-
             | wing camarederie. And I'd wager that we recognize subtle
             | right-wing views more easily. One doesn't learn about these
             | views by looking at a twitter screenshot but by engaging
             | them.
             | 
             | We should stop treating right-wing ideology as a mind-
             | parasite. And if we do it anyways, we should accept that
             | some people want to get "infected".
        
             | busterarm wrote:
             | Sorry, but you don't find any of that shit in /k/ or /m/ or
             | a dozen of the other most popular boards on the site.
             | 
             | You literally are making shit up.
        
           | Blikkentrekker wrote:
           | It doesn't even describe /pol/. This is what 4chan thinks of
           | /pol/ but when you actually go there there is a pluriformmity
           | of opinions and it's indeed mostly just about current events.
           | 
           | The biggest good thing that came out of 4chan and 8chan to me
           | is that it made me extremely weary to ever trust second-hand
           | reports about some place and made me better at identifying
           | reports that read like "This person dislikes this place,
           | never visited it, and just reasons together what it's like.".
           | It also made me try Tumblr. I heard terrible things about it
           | how it was filled with "social justice warriors" and stuff
           | and unsurprisingly, when actually trying it it was nothing
           | like that and just a fairly chill place where people mostly
           | blog about fiction and pornography and share their thoughts.
           | Even when ignoring the filter and logging out and going to
           | what is trending, almost no content is political.
           | 
           | I remember when 8chan went down and all the news reports and
           | forum posts basically said it was basically Stormfront but I
           | was there at the time and it was nothing like that. People
           | just posted cat memes, talked about fiction, talked about
           | life and dating and stuff. One had to dig on very specific
           | boards to find that kind of content.
           | 
           | People talk a lot about "places", online or offline or even
           | fiction that they clearly have no firsthand experience with,
           | and just reason together about what it's like. They just
           | "expect it to be like that" based on some image they create
           | in their head, or some cherry picked examples they've seen
           | and start to treat it like fact. It's especially weird when
           | it's about something they clearly don't like, some kind of
           | book or television series of which, despite clearly disliking
           | it, they can supposedly tell you exactly what it's like...
           | well, they've never seen it, they just reasoned it together
           | in their head based on some things they read about it and
           | their own expectations.
           | 
           | I frequent 4chan a lot; it's nothing like this description
           | indeed. I don't frequent /pol/ because I found the
           | discussions to be completely empty but I tried it and it was
           | nothing like that. Even within 4chan I read all sorts of
           | things about other boards that are just not true when
           | actually visiting them. /pol/ isn't a far right echo chamber,
           | /r9k/ isn't full of lonely incels, /lgbt/ isn't some social
           | justice warrior hub despite what one might read about those
           | places on other boards.
        
       | WindowsDev wrote:
       | Is the source code which leaked everything one would need to host
       | their own copy of the site?
        
         | technion wrote:
         | There are tonnes of open source clones on github, source code
         | to run the site is nothing special. You still need users.
        
           | joseda-hg wrote:
           | Might I add, 4chan's implementation isn't even particularly
           | good one
        
             | johnnyjeans wrote:
             | Nah I disagree. It's the best one. All of the extra shit
             | other boards have just feels like needless bloat. Honestly
             | the JS extension they added like 10 years ago is a bit
             | much.
        
         | kaiokendev wrote:
         | The site has an API for reading posts [0]. It works (worked?)
         | quite well. For making posts, you'd need to write your own
         | functionality that forwards the CAPTCHA and post timers.
         | 
         | [0]: https://github.com/4chan/4chan-API
        
         | PaulRobinson wrote:
         | No, you'll need servers and enough network capacity to handle
         | the load, an understanding and supportive hosting provider, a
         | law degree or enough money to pay somebody with one to keep you
         | out of court/jail/prison, a network of degenerates to provide
         | traffic and content and/or a copy of the existing 4chan
         | content, a stomach of steel to deal with the content moderation
         | duties, and a moral compass so warped you think hosting
         | degrading and illegal content is "just liberalism and freedom
         | of speech" and not something that needs a second thought by any
         | right-minded person.
         | 
         | But sure, if you have all that _and_ the source code, you 're
         | all set. Godspeed!
        
           | desumeku wrote:
           | All content that violates the law of the United States is
           | banned on 4chan. I don't know where you got that idea.
        
             | matheusmoreira wrote:
             | I remember 8chan had literally one rule: don't violate US
             | law.
        
             | PaulRobinson wrote:
             | oh i guess in that case it is legal everywhere then cool
             | cool cool kthxbye
        
           | jml7c5 wrote:
           | >a copy of the existing 4chan content
           | 
           | 4chan's content is ephemeral. Most of it is gone every few
           | days.
        
             | h2zizzle wrote:
             | That's how it used to be (and the vast majority of early
             | content is indeed lost). Most boards were auto-archived
             | starting in the mid/late 2010s, though, with many archives
             | being searchable. Some even allow ghost posting.
        
       | no_time wrote:
       | Not the first time this has happened, and probably not the last.
       | I hope they bounce back from this like they did before. It's a
       | special place.
        
       | ttw44 wrote:
       | We've heard it time and time again that 4chan is the so called
       | "last bastion of free speech on the internet" when this so called
       | free speech is just being unapologetically racist and
       | antisemitic. I hope its gone for good.
        
         | DaSHacka wrote:
         | Halfchan's likely been around longer than you have and will
         | just as likely remain around long after you're gone
        
           | ttw44 wrote:
           | That's fine, I don't really expect a 22 year old site with
           | generational backup storage to actually go down forever. I'm
           | 23, so I got them beat!
        
         | y-curious wrote:
         | I, too, prefer to see my vulgar memes served by an AI algorithm
         | alongside ads. Sooooo much better!
         | 
         | /s
        
         | kittikitti wrote:
         | Yes, and everywhere else people have to worry about being
         | deported for pointing out Israel's war crimes. At least no one
         | needed to worry about that on 4Chan, but seeing an anonymous
         | racist meme is even worse for people like you.
        
           | ttw44 wrote:
           | That is a completely separate problem, and it's dishonest
           | making the comparison. Extremist right wing ideology and
           | genocide is actively advocated on /pol/ as well as anti-
           | Jewish rhetoric. Neo-nazism is not pointing out Israel's war
           | crimes, and pointing out Israel's war crimes is not neo-
           | nazism or anti-Jewish. /pol/ isn't antisemitic for Israel's
           | genocide; they just hate Jewish people.
           | 
           | The Trump administration trying to deport people for doing so
           | is also unjustified. People are freely criticizing Israel on
           | other popular social media (notably TikTok and Instagram)
           | without inciting a modern neo-nazi and right wing movement
           | like what has happened on 4chan in the past 10 years.
        
         | soon_to_be wrote:
         | 4chan being gone for good would've been a bad thing regardless
         | of your views. All those people who used to come there and just
         | talk wouldn't just cease to exist nor stop feeling the way they
         | feel. At the very least, it's the devil you know.
        
       | yapyap wrote:
       | Hacker named 4chan hacks 4chan
        
       | Red_Tarsius wrote:
       | I feel too many people conflate /pol/ with the whole website. I
       | enjoyed browsing through sfw boards like /tg/ (tabletop media),
       | /ck/ (cooking) and /fit/ (fitness). I had long discussions about
       | the SW sequels on /tv/ back in 2015-19. The readership was
       | surprisingly diverse and the anonymity lead users to provide more
       | focused replies. With bodybuilding.com gone, the blue boards felt
       | like the last bastion of the old internet.
        
         | MattDemers wrote:
         | I think people also don't acknowledge how much terminology,
         | slang and other culture originate and spread there. When it
         | breaches into Twitter (usually through funposters) people kind
         | of ignore the unsavoury origin and rewrite the history. The
         | anonymous nature kind of provides that petri dish of "if it's
         | strong culture, it'll survive or be modified."
        
           | thih9 wrote:
           | > how much terminology, slang and other culture originate and
           | spread there
           | 
           | Could you give some examples? The more unexpected, the
           | better.
           | 
           | Preferably with sources, because tracing word origin is
           | difficult enough on its own.
        
             | boyesm wrote:
             | Moot lists some examples in this video:
             | 
             | https://youtu.be/a_1UEAGCo30?si=JMVO5ox3K2AhxrMY&t=97
        
             | dmonitor wrote:
             | Wiktionary has a surprisingly robust list
             | 
             | https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:English_4chan_slang
        
               | thih9 wrote:
               | Note, some of these are associated with the far right.
               | 
               | > fren later came to prominence on sites such as 4chan
               | and the subreddit /r/frenworld as a dog whistle used by
               | far-right white nationalists and fascists to refer to
               | each other
               | 
               | https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/fren
        
               | NewsaHackO wrote:
               | Why does that matter?
        
               | immibis wrote:
               | because if you're trying to say a site was a positive
               | influence, because it created a number of Nazi slurs and
               | dog whistles... complete the sentence yourself
        
               | anigbrowl wrote:
               | So you can have a clue who you're talking to.
        
           | giancarlostoro wrote:
           | Don't forget the slurs. They have some unique slurs in there
           | that have backstories too.
        
           | 52-6F-62 wrote:
           | I thought culture was a "solved problem" now that we have AI.
           | 
           | I can't keep up anymore.
        
             | 52-6F-62 wrote:
             | Well either people thought my comment was to be taken
             | literally, or they believe 4chan is culture and other
             | hurting cultural gatherings like midsize live music venues
             | were not.
        
           | hotfist wrote:
           | This absolutely was the case for a long time. It was the
           | cultural center of the internet where nearly all memes sprang
           | from or gained traction and context before leaving orbit for
           | the greater internet.
           | 
           | That has not been the case for years though. I'd say it
           | shifted to twitter as things shifted to inseparably political
           | on almost all of 4chan maybe 6-8 years back and then shifted
           | away from twitter a while after elon bought it and a lot of
           | people started to bail. and I honestly don't know where
           | exactly it's shifted to now, but I'd have to guess tiktok and
           | similar new platforms.
           | 
           | But regardless I do think 4chan has lost nearly all of it's
           | cultural influence, but still maintains it's notoriety.
        
             | packetlost wrote:
             | I think it's _less_ the case now, but 4chan is absolutely
             | still the source of new slang. It 's just less concentrated
             | on that one platform these days.
        
           | el_cujo wrote:
           | I think this was true at one point but not for the past 5-10
           | years. Based off of using the site I feel like now a lot of
           | things start on other sites (particularly smaller accounts on
           | twitter), get aggregated and popularized on 4chan, and then
           | get picked up on other sites (often regurgitated back to
           | twitter). Knowyourmeme shows this for a lot of things that
           | people typically attribute as original to 4chan. There was
           | definitely a time when a ton of stuff originated on 4chan but
           | these days everything is so interconnected with the same
           | people posting on twitter, reddit, and 4chan that I think
           | 4chan gets a lot of unearned credit
        
         | nemomarx wrote:
         | the blue boards did have some slow overlap with pol in my
         | experience - they were more distinct before 2014 or so and by
         | 2016 I barely recognized /tg/ culture.
         | 
         | I'm curious, why bodybuilding.com in particular? I think I've
         | only heard of it once. I wonder if anyone on HN remembers
         | stardestroyer.net or old weird tech forums?
        
           | sgarland wrote:
           | I used to hang out at Head-Fi a lot in the early '00s. It's a
           | headphone and headphone accessories (amplifiers, DACs, etc.)
           | forum, and people nerd out about building their own stuff. I
           | recall writing a review on some obscure Chinese brand of
           | sound card that people liked, because it happened to have a
           | really good DAC for the rear output (it was a surround sound
           | card, back when that was something interesting).
           | 
           | I gradually lost interest when they started heavily pushing
           | commercial sponsors. I _get_ it; sites aren't free to host,
           | and moderator time isn't free  / unlimited, but it's still
           | sad.
        
             | torginus wrote:
             | Sites are surprisingly cheap to run all things considered -
             | I remember asking the owner of an fairly prominent
             | aerospace enthusiast forum (one of the biggest on the
             | internet) how much he spends on hosting - he told me he
             | hosts on a Linux box on DigitalOcean that runs phpBB, and
             | he spends about $50/month for the whole website - not a
             | crazy amount even for a hobbyist.
        
           | h2zizzle wrote:
           | Bodybuilding.com's misc board was essentially the same sort
           | of raunchy teen hangout as /b/, sans the porn. It wasn't
           | anything goes, but a lot did, and of course you were dealing
           | with the kinds of meatheads (said lovingly) who would happen
           | upon bb.com in the first place.
        
         | sgarland wrote:
         | > bodybuilding.com
         | 
         | Obligatory post about the dumbest argument to ever be had
         | online [0]. It's so good, the Wikipedia entry [1] has a section
         | devoted to it.
         | 
         | [0]:
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20240123134202/https://forum.bod...
         | 
         | [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodybuilding.com
        
           | sensanaty wrote:
           | My personal favorite rendition of this:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqylqmDl0Mw (Mega64 - Flame
           | War Theater - "Full Body Workout Every Other Day?")
        
             | sgarland wrote:
             | This is amazing, thank you.
        
             | ethbr1 wrote:
             | I had to watch that at 2x to keep the thoughts-per-second
             | above catatonic.
             | 
             | In the same vein, for those who haven't seen it, the
             | classic "Is soup a drink?" debate:
             | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IDNuz_VFJtU
             | 
             | Somewhere, there are ancient Greek rhetoric teachers
             | spinning in their graves.
        
               | valiant55 wrote:
               | Is cereal soup?
        
               | ethbr1 wrote:
               | Objection.
        
           | cwmma wrote:
           | For the record this is an example of the "Fencepost error"
           | where the last item in a range gets double counted as the
           | first item in the next range and is incredibly common in
           | dyscalculia (the math version of dyslexia) as people will
           | have "visual number lines" in their head that cover ranges of
           | numbers but the ends get double counted, so there will be a
           | 10-20 number line then a 20-30 number line.
           | 
           | I suspect TheJosh had something like that with the week where
           | he visualized it with Sundays at both ends but lacked the
           | self awareness to realize that this was not a universal
           | representation.
        
             | ethbr1 wrote:
             | As the quip goes, there are two hard problems in computer
             | science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one
             | errors.
        
               | 6LLvveMx2koXfwn wrote:
               | That's three though.
        
               | recursive wrote:
               | That's the neat part.
        
               | fetzu wrote:
               | Not if you start counting at zero!
        
               | TZubiri wrote:
               | 0,1,2,3
               | 
               | That's 5
        
             | Izkata wrote:
             | I'm not sure about the "fencepost error" part, but he's
             | thinking of days as durations rather than points. It's
             | early in the thread, about halfway down the first page:
             | 
             | > You don't start counting on sunday, it hasn't been a day
             | yet, you don't start counting til monday. You can't count
             | the day that it is, did you never take basic elementrary
             | math?
             | 
             | Put in other terms, TheJosh uses "Sun - Sun" as inclusive
             | start and exclusive end, while Justin-27 uses "Sun - Sat"
             | as inclusive start and inclusive end.
             | 
             | I think TheJosh mixed things up when trying to explain it
             | (durations vs inclusive/exclusive), so doubles down and
             | comes up with weirder stuff later in the thread. I didn't
             | read the whole thing though, stopped near the bottom of the
             | first page.
        
               | arvindhmani wrote:
               | I wanted to keep going but pages 3 onwards don't seem to
               | be archived. Argh, back to work I guess
        
               | krackers wrote:
               | >days as durations rather than points
               | 
               | Isn't thinking of day X as the range [midnight of X, X+1
               | midnight) isomoprhic to associating it with a point for
               | X, at least for purposes of considering coverage (e.g.
               | both approaches work to show that there are 7 days that
               | cover a week).
        
               | Izkata wrote:
               | Yes, see the end of my comment:
               | 
               | > I think TheJosh mixed things up when trying to explain
               | it (durations vs inclusive/exclusive)
        
             | helaoban wrote:
             | Can we pause and admire the sheer contagiousness of the
             | debate? We are now extending it to the meta-realm,
             | discussing the possible mental states that led to one or
             | more of the original participants adopting certain lines of
             | reasoning...
        
           | throwaway2037 wrote:
           | I never saw this before. Thank you to share. Truly, this is
           | peak Interwebs.
        
           | butterlettuce wrote:
           | If a woman ever asks what men's locker room talk is like,
           | just show them that post. We really are a simple bunch.
        
             | mrguyorama wrote:
             | I'm always confused when shitty men insist that saying
             | outright misogynist things and even rape jokes is "just
             | locker room talk", like, nope, no, our locker rooms in high
             | school did NOT have those happen. That kind of womanizer
             | talk would out you as immensely insecure and a braggadocios
             | loser.
             | 
             | Lots of dick helicopters though.
        
           | justinator wrote:
           | That IS dumb -- everyone knows there are 8 days in a week.
           | Sunday to Sunday -- you can count it on your hands!
        
           | ren_engineer wrote:
           | lol that was a bait thread, this is the same place that had a
           | discussion on whether a pitbull could defeat the Sun if it
           | snuck up on it at night
        
           | adamrezich wrote:
           | > In 2015, Vice News contacted mathematician Joanna Nelson
           | for a resolution, and she said that TheJosh would have to
           | schedule his workouts in two-week chunks, claiming a week is
           | seven days from Monday to Sunday.
           | 
           | Why was a mathematician necessary for this assertion?
        
             | anigbrowl wrote:
             | Because if you ask an economist you'll get two answers,
             | neither of which will be helpful.
        
           | wolrah wrote:
           | > Obligatory post about the dumbest argument to ever be had
           | online
           | 
           | Jon Bois did an amazing video about this one:
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eECjjLNAOd4
        
           | artursapek wrote:
           | I love this thread so much
        
         | flmontpetit wrote:
         | It used to be a diverse place without much to tie all the
         | boards and users together save for a shared commitment to
         | counter-culture. Then GamerGate and Donald Trump happened.
         | "Every board is /pol/" was one of the most frequent replies you
         | would see for a while until all the halfway decent people left.
         | 
         | /g/ is where I and a lot of people learned about FOSS advocacy
         | and now it's just gamer hardware and transphobia.
        
           | johnnyjeans wrote:
           | /g/ genuinely was one of the worst boards on the website, but
           | there were a handful of lurkers who made good posts in some
           | of the general threads. the site as a whole was still was a
           | diverse place up until yesterday, with only a few boards
           | being unusably bad, and it was getting increasingly better.
           | 
           | it's a bit sad really. zero-barrier to entry, no login gates,
           | no accounts, and traffic was so high that it moved really
           | fast. it was like a dive bar covered in grime. will be sad to
           | see it go. none of the other imageboards still kicking are
           | quite the same, most are even worse tbh.
        
             | flmontpetit wrote:
             | I guess the thing that really changed is our tolerance for
             | bad actors. As far as I'm concerned even a 99% signal-to-
             | noise ratio is unacceptable if the 1% represents a
             | contingent of determinedly obnoxious and hateful people,
             | and 4chan was never anywhere close to 99% signal.
        
               | johnnyjeans wrote:
               | Nah, the board culture really did change in the last 7
               | years. In a past that's not too distant nobody was
               | obsessed with trans folk. That's not to say there weren't
               | vulgarities and unpleasantries, but there was definitely
               | a substantial IQ drop somewhere around 2018 and 2019. I
               | haven't seen the "Install Gentoo" meme in a while, the
               | old board culture was basically replaced with cringe
               | fringe zoomerisms.
        
             | _345 wrote:
             | ive always wondered, is there a way to use technology on a
             | board style wesbite to enforce a higher quality culture? i
             | toyed with the idea of requiring an org email similar to
             | Blind except it could be a school email too, the hope being
             | that after verification you are fully anon still just now
             | with write privileges and that it would somehow lead to
             | better quality discussions and engagements
        
               | ethbr1 wrote:
               | Aka how Facebook originally launched (.edu-only)
               | 
               | Social network culture is a multipart problem:
               | 1. You need quality posters        2. You need to provide
               | value to those posters        3. You need to remove low-
               | quality posts attracted by site growth
               | 
               | Any system that creates the above will be successful.
               | 
               | The rub is that the humans behind (1) are free agents,
               | with little incentive to stick to the site once (2)
               | fails.
               | 
               | Hence rapid Digg-style collapses from site owners who
               | don't realize how tenuous their community quality is.
        
               | TMWNN wrote:
               | >Aka how Facebook originally launched (.edu-only)
               | 
               | Similarly, I've heard it said that Usenet should never
               | have allowed non-.edu posts.
        
               | codexon wrote:
               | I would say that reddit quality has declined a huge
               | amount, but people won't leave because there's a huge
               | network effect. Nobody will join a reddit clone that is
               | 95% functionally the same because there's nobody there.
               | Every community that tried to migrate off reddit to a
               | reddit clone has failed.
               | 
               | As an example of why reddit is so bad now (aside from the
               | obvious moderation issues) about 1-2 years ago, reddit
               | added a block feature that stops you from replying to any
               | comment the blocker made and even any comment somebody
               | else made below them.
               | 
               | So pretending this is reddit, I could make this reply
               | saying that you are wrong and then say you have no
               | evidence for your claims. Then I could immediately block
               | you, making it look like you have no response. You are
               | also not allowed to edit any of your comments saying you
               | got blocked or else it will shadow delete that comment.
               | 
               | I have personally witnessed this abuse 5 times in the
               | past few months and I don't even use reddit that much.
        
               | immibis wrote:
               | Is there any evidence that most of Reddit is actually
               | real people (paid shills and bots don't count)?
        
               | kmeisthax wrote:
               | You forgot problem 4: You need to provide your VC
               | ownership a profitable exit.
               | 
               | This plays off problem 3. Growth-focused social media
               | platforms don't _want_ to remove anything but the
               | noisiest noise, because there 's still a pair of
               | monetizable eyeballs behind most sources of noise. In
               | fact, if you can be particularly noisy, you generate
               | drama, which makes the platform emotionally salient and
               | thus stickier.
               | 
               | How this applies to 4chan is vague since 4chan isn't
               | exactly a growth platform. Moot's VC ownership was his
               | mom's credit card[0] and his exit was "panic selling to
               | hiroyuki because Hollywood actors' lawyers are breathing
               | down my neck". Hiroyuki himself is incredibly sketchy. As
               | far as I can tell, he bought 4chan mainly because
               | 2channel got rugpulled by his domain registrar[1], after
               | 2channel _also_ had a massive data breach. Funny how
               | history repeats.
               | 
               | Anyway, imageboard ownership being a fractal mirror of
               | the incestuous bullshit going on in big tech and far-
               | right politics aside, once a social network or forum
               | becomes big enough to be 'known', it tends to stick,
               | because moving off those platforms is a collective action
               | problem. So between you holding your friends mutually
               | hostage and the drama from letting the dumbest idiots
               | post on your site, you've created a powerfully addictive
               | socialization _substitute_ that can be manipulated to
               | make people do whatever. Quality posters and value don 't
               | matter; in fact, once you're established you _want_ the
               | quality level to go down.
               | 
               | Digg collapsed because they replaced the entire website
               | with something completely different. They didn't fail to
               | moderate the community, they just shut it down. It'd be
               | like if tomorrow Facebook said "we're not doing user
               | posts anymore, we're just going to have a bunch of
               | comment sections for videos from legacy media outfits".
               | Everyone would leave immediately because there's no more
               | mutual-hostage-taking by your friends.
               | 
               | [0] This is not to be confused with _Canvas_ , a similar
               | imageboard platform also started by Moot that lasted like
               | a year.
               | 
               | [1] If you believe the guy who stole the domain, the data
               | breach rendered 2channel unable to pay domain hosting
               | fees. _That being said_ , the guy who stole the domain is
               | also the owner of 8chan and a huge QAnon nutter, if not Q
               | himself, and stealing your client's website because they
               | ran out of money is an extremely malicious move.
               | 
               | As far as anyone knows, hiroyuki got the money to buy
               | 4chan from Good Smile Company. Yes, the people who made
               | Nendoroids.
        
               | _--__--__ wrote:
               | Autoadmit is a message board that required .edu to
               | register and ended up with a pretty similar culture
               | (though with an older userbase given the initial focus on
               | law school admissions)
        
               | lesostep wrote:
               | Time limit for a reply. If you could only reply once in a
               | 20 minutes, that wouldn't hinder most thoughtful users,
               | but for user that are quick to draw a reply it's a
               | detterenr.
        
           | kelipso wrote:
           | Yeah, after 2015 it became impossible to go to any of the
           | boards if you weren't a pol poster. They made it their
           | mission to spread their vile shit everywhere.
        
             | zppln wrote:
             | Meh, /pol/ leaks but people also gets called out for it all
             | the time. Overall I'd say containment style moderation like
             | the one 4chan has works pretty well if you're looking to
             | host "discussion" of a wide varity of topics.
        
               | kelipso wrote:
               | It's not a terrible theory. You could argue that other
               | websites banning their containment communities caused a
               | spillover effect into the wider internet as well.
        
           | arkh wrote:
           | Let me be bold: transphobia is counter-culture nowadays (at
           | least in Western societies). Counter-culture is not always a
           | good thing.
        
             | johnnyjeans wrote:
             | There is no counter-culture anymore, not really. Society is
             | virtually balkanized.
        
             | DrillShopper wrote:
             | > Let me be bold: transphobia is counter-culture nowadays
             | 
             | No it's not. It's as mainstream as you get. One of the two
             | major parties ran explicitly on a platform of transphobia
             | ("keep men out of women's bathroom", "your daughter is
             | being beaten up in sports by a man"). You can't call it
             | counter-culture anymore.
        
               | ethbr1 wrote:
               | I think it's difficult to label "majority" culture when
               | most things are split 50/50.
               | 
               | Counter-culture feels like it requires at least an 80/20
               | or so.
        
               | krapp wrote:
               | Transphobia has been a majority cultural view throughout
               | every culture based on the Abrahamic religions and their
               | strict patriarchal hierarchies. Even given that the
               | nature of gender roles change over time, and concepts
               | like "homosexuality", "heterosexuality" and "transgender"
               | being modern inventions, transgressing those roles has
               | almost always been taboo.
        
               | kelipso wrote:
               | Memoryholing the four years of the Biden administration.
        
               | krapp wrote:
               | No, not really. The "groomer" panic took place during the
               | Biden years, with plenty of states passing anti-trans
               | legislation and banning pro-trans books from libraries.
               | The Biden administration did not reverse the widespread
               | cultural hatred, discrimination and violence against
               | trans people in the US in any meaningful sense. And it's
               | honestly weird that you would think it even could have,
               | given where we are now politically.
        
               | kelipso wrote:
               | It's two different cultures, one of which is more
               | dominant, or was during the Biden years. As always, only
               | the dominant culture matters culturally.
        
               | krapp wrote:
               | The premise that during the Biden years transgender
               | culture was the dominant culture in America is just
               | plainly ridiculous, as is the implication that only
               | transgender identity mattered, culturally, during those
               | years. Again, these were the years when transphobia began
               | to mainstream and become codified into legislation and
               | "antiwoke" and "anti-DEI" culture. It was never dominant,
               | it _only just started_ to become visible enough to really
               | piss people off (similar to gay culture in the 1980s.)
        
               | kelipso wrote:
               | Not transgender culture but elite coastal liberal
               | culture.
        
           | Calinterman wrote:
           | Gamergate and Donald Trump was a 4-6 year period depending on
           | where you put the needle. There were 10 years before it and
           | now close to 5 years after it. The people who continue to
           | hammer about it are just announcing that they don't
           | understand the site and are complaining about ancient
           | history. The most popular board right now is the video game
           | generals board, and second place belongs to the regular video
           | games board.
        
         | ToucanLoucan wrote:
         | > I feel too many people conflate /pol/ with the whole website.
         | 
         | That's probably why a lot of websites use moderation to avoid
         | having one section of it turn into a cesspit of every -ism you
         | can imagine, up to and including fascism, because once you have
         | a section of your website that is openly coordinating the
         | pushing of fascism on society, everyone kinda forgets about the
         | diverse and interesting other things it might have, because of
         | the fascism.
        
           | desumeku wrote:
           | 4chan is more moderated than you'd imagine.
        
             | jtvjan wrote:
             | this might be conspirational thinking, but i don't think
             | it's an accident that the site came out like this. yes,
             | there's moderation, but the moderators are explicitly told
             | to go easy on moderating racism[1]. it feels like once that
             | kind of stuff isn't punished, it starts to snowball a
             | change in the attitudes of the site as a whole.
             | 
             | that's not to say stringent moderation doesn't make a site
             | less welcoming, though. it's about choosing what's the
             | lesser evil to you, i guess.
             | 
             | [1]: https://www.vice.com/en/article/the-man-who-helped-
             | turn-4cha...
        
               | johnnyjeans wrote:
               | > it feels like once that kind of stuff isn't punished,
               | it starts to snowball a change in the attitudes of the
               | site as a whole.
               | 
               | Considering the site has been around for over 20 years
               | and people still call out and flame racism, I think this
               | is an uncharitable and unfounded cynicism. I'm not sure
               | declarative claims of 3rd order effects in a system so
               | chaotic are capable of being accurate.
        
               | potato3732842 wrote:
               | I think people, whether they know it or not, rightly
               | realize that race is too simplistic of a way to mark
               | people as good/bad or whatever so even in communities
               | that would be fine with racism it's gonna catch a lot of
               | shit for simply not being a good way to accomplish its
               | goal.
        
           | fooList wrote:
           | That is what has saved Reddit. You cannot find society
           | fascism coordination there because the mods are strong. If
           | 4chan followed that model bronies might still be a thing.
        
             | pjc50 wrote:
             | Eh, they came in very late on that one and only on the
             | absolute worst examples. It's still very prevalent.
        
             | lwidvrizokdhai wrote:
             | /mpl/ still exists. Well, still existed until now.
        
           | wordsinaline wrote:
           | I like that there can be wild places on the internet where
           | people can pieces of shit. 4Chan had communist trolls, Jew-
           | hating trolls, Zionist-trolls, pro-Christian trolls, anti-
           | Christian pro-pagan trolls. It didn't foster any fascism in
           | society. It was just a place where people could say mostly
           | what they want.
        
         | moonlet wrote:
         | /fit/ and /mu/ were good to me in my late teens, and /ck/ is
         | the reason I actually asked my roommate's mom to show me
         | cooking basics when I was in college!
        
         | giancarlostoro wrote:
         | Funny you point to /pol/ and forget about /b/, that was the
         | meat of 4chan in the late 2000's
        
         | eqvinox wrote:
         | I always thought it's /b/ that people conflate with the whole
         | website... (for the purpose of declaring it a cesspool)
         | 
         | ... but then again I never looked at /pol/, maybe it's even
         | worse than /b/?
        
           | ArinaS wrote:
           | It is - https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=/pol/&oldi
           | d=12855....
        
           | _345 wrote:
           | it is, and unfortunately from 2016 onwards it kind of outgrew
           | the rest of the site like a tumorous growth until the whole
           | site became markedly more neonazi and less goofy. something
           | to do with donald trump i suspected
        
             | eqvinox wrote:
             | Good to know. My opinion of 4chan was formed 2010-ish, I
             | guess I should, er, update it.
        
             | api wrote:
             | I've heard multiple times about a bit of lore that holds
             | that 4chan once tried to brigade Stormfront, causing
             | Stormfront to brigade back, and that was how the cross
             | pollination occurred and started turning 4chan fascist.
             | 
             | No idea if this is true but it sounds plausible.
        
             | busterarm wrote:
             | the fash trend on /pol/ died somewhere around 2018 and has
             | shifted significantly radleft in the years since. This is
             | misunderstood by outsiders largely because /pol/ users
             | don't actually hold these opinions, they just will
             | represent whatever is the edgiest opinion at any given
             | time.
             | 
             | And despite things like shooting pharma executives in broad
             | daylight being mainstream now, /pol/lacks rightly recognize
             | that this is still edgy upon edgy upon edgy. And thus they
             | meme the shit out of it.
        
               | potato3732842 wrote:
               | >users don't actually hold these opinions, they just will
               | represent whatever is the edgiest opinion at any given
               | time.
               | 
               | I left in 2012ish, never really did /pol/, if it even
               | existed then, but that 100% squares with my experience of
               | the site.
        
               | paradox460 wrote:
               | /po/ is paper craft and origami
        
         | fastglass wrote:
         | I feel too many people who don't conflate /pol/ with the whole
         | website, as well as the others, don't know why /pol/ was
         | created.
         | 
         | It was eventually a replacement for the /new/ board, where news
         | of the arab spring first started, shortly before it was shut
         | down. However, it was plagued with proto-pol behavior before
         | anyone was bothering to complain about pol.
         | 
         | There was always these 'cells' of non /jp/ shitposters, if they
         | weren't the OG shitposters themselves, that would post about
         | left-right politics ad nauseum, and in the most hallmark
         | unproductive ways. It was when trolling evolved from 'clever
         | this and that' to shear brute forcing. It was the topic of the
         | news that attracted these unsavor political actors into that
         | place, which was for a short period of time, a great diverse
         | place for collecting news.
         | 
         | This social phenomena and history could never be repeated
         | enough, particularly since we might be finally ending the story
         | of pol/4chan - which was more popular than 4chan itself.
        
           | Calinterman wrote:
           | I feel too many people who conflate /pol/ with the whole
           | website are just regurgitating information they heard from
           | other social media sites. The most popular boards, by far,
           | since 2020 have been the video game and vtuber boards. With
           | Video Game generals being the most popular board for the past
           | five years outside of the occasional political season. You
           | can check this on 4stats.
           | 
           | People who still complain about /pol/ look a little like
           | people who would still complain about ebaumsworld: Completely
           | out of touch individuals who equate everything to a tiny
           | phenomena.
        
             | sleepybrett wrote:
             | sorry buddy, but it's the nazi bar analogy. Let one nazi
             | into your bar the whole bar is a nazi bar.
             | 
             | I don't care if some other sub-board is all sunshines and
             | happiness, it's a nazi forum because of all the nazis that
             | are coddled there.
        
               | lastcobbo wrote:
               | That's a silly thing to think about any site on the
               | internet. Have you vetted every person on any site you
               | post on? Or even this thread? If not, how do you expect a
               | moderator to do that? This isn't a pub, it's a site used
               | by tens of thousands of people.
        
         | helle253 wrote:
         | /pol/ and /b/ were containment boards, up until they got so
         | popular that everything else ended up being containment boards.
         | 
         | I still miss hanging out on /v/ and /fa/. When they split /vg/
         | out into its own board, the colour started to drain from my
         | experience.
        
         | throwaway795737 wrote:
         | The more popular blue boards were pretty bad too, let's be
         | honest. It wasn't hard at all to find things on those boards
         | that wouldn't be tolerated on any mainstream social media, for
         | good reason.
        
           | swarnie wrote:
           | What is the good reason?
           | 
           | Where I'm sat the only reason our three (?) social media
           | companies restrict none illegal speech/content is to make it
           | more appealing to advertisers.
           | 
           | I miss the internet before it was driven by advertisers and
           | their investors.
        
           | Blikkentrekker wrote:
           | It wasn't hard to find things no, but the narrative one often
           | reads is that it's the mainstream consensus there to the
           | universal opinion rather than a fringe opinion which exists
           | and isn't banned from having.
        
         | Bjorkbat wrote:
         | /vg/ also had a pretty cool amateur game dev general thread
         | (/agdg/). No one was making any hidden gems there, but it
         | wasn't trash either. At any rate, I liked it.
        
           | matheusmoreira wrote:
           | I remember one user who made a really fun arcade flight
           | simulator.
        
           | diath wrote:
           | Not hidden gems, no, but some of big titles originated from
           | /agdg/, both Risk of Rain and VA-11 Hall-A started as
           | progress posts in /agdg/ before hitting combined >1M sales.
        
         | Calinterman wrote:
         | It's, funny enough, identical to people who conflate all of old
         | 4chan with /b/. The current most popular boards are video game
         | boards and have been since Covid hit. There's a site called
         | 4stats which charts this, and shows how the end of Trump's
         | presidency spelled the death knell of /pol/ dominating 4chan.
         | Which, by comparison, was four years. It's been five years
         | since then. It's kind of like how the golden age of /b/ was a
         | shade over three years (2004-2007) but all of old 4chan is
         | equated to the memes made in this prehistoric era.
        
         | swarnie wrote:
         | Ignore /b/ /pol/ and /r9k/ and most of the rest were good
         | communities compared to the modern internet.
         | 
         | Reddit can't get close due to its voting system.
        
         | LinuxBender wrote:
         | _I feel too many people conflate /pol/ with the whole website._
         | 
         | I believe that's fair. Sure, it's _" a different board"_ but
         | it's just another URL on the same domain and same
         | administrator, just different janitors. So it is really the
         | part of the whole website. I know that 99% of people on 4chan
         | disagree with me because they do not wish to be associated with
         | /pol/ /b/ /gif/ but if they wanted to disassociate themselves
         | with those boards then they should be on an entirely different
         | domain without 4chan in name. _polchan perhaps._
        
           | Hamuko wrote:
           | Do people also treat Reddit the same way?
        
             | LinuxBender wrote:
             | I don't know. I've never created an account there. In it's
             | early days it just seemed like they were trying to make a
             | platform that could be monetized some day so I never
             | bothered. I assumed _incorrectly_ that it would just fade
             | away.
             | 
             | If that is the case that might explain why so many on 4chan
             | feel that different URL's are different sites. Most of the
             | current members seemed to have shown up from Reddit. Most
             | of the original members grew up and left, _myself
             | excluded_. I still visit from time to time but don 't stick
             | around long as most threads and posters are obviously just
             | 4chan-GPT and people being tricked into replying to it.
             | 
             | There are certainly overlapping circles between Reddit,
             | 4chan and HN. 4chan people talk about and make fun of
             | members of this site all the time. They also make fun of
             | Reddit but don't seem to call out specific people on it.
        
         | codexon wrote:
         | > I feel too many people conflate /pol/ with the whole website.
         | 
         | Because it is the 2nd most active category, and the racist/alt-
         | right beliefs have spread to the other boards because the head
         | admin fires anyone that tries to moderate it.
         | 
         | https://www.vice.com/en/article/the-man-who-helped-turn-4cha...
         | 
         | On top of that, they actively delete and ban posts that go
         | against alt-right.
         | 
         | I discussed it somewhat recently here:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42276865#42283887
        
           | optimalsolver wrote:
           | Why do they allow so much interracial porn spam, and how does
           | that fit into your view of the mods being alt-right racists?
        
             | sanswork wrote:
             | You can still be attracted to someone even if you think you
             | are genetically superior. Or you can get off on interracial
             | power dynamics. Lots of reasons.
             | 
             | Go look of descendants of American slaves who do DNA tests
             | only to find out they have European ancestry.
        
             | codexon wrote:
             | interracial porn is frequently used by the alt-right
             | racists to point out the evils of "race mixing" and to
             | blame jews for being the producers of it. It is not an anti
             | alt-right point at all.
             | 
             | Even if its posted by someone that is against the alt-
             | right, it becomes a post to unify alt-right users.
        
           | kypro wrote:
           | I like /pol/ and although I'm not really interested in
           | defending it (I 100% understand why people don't like it) I
           | will give my opinion of it because I think most people don't
           | get it and take the board wayy too seriously.
           | 
           | /pol/ isn't trying to be like the millions of other politic
           | discussion forums online. It's literally intended to be
           | politically outrageous so when people like yourself complain
           | that it's full of outrageous alt-right content you're
           | typically missing the point.
           | 
           | It's full of things that appear to be alt-right because stuff
           | like racism, sexism and transphobia is extremely politically
           | incorrect. While far-left views might be equally
           | reprehensible, these views are not seen as equally
           | politically incorrect. It's actually quite hard to hold
           | politically incorrect far-left views unless you incorporate
           | some far-right views - being so pro-trans that you hate
           | biological women or something stupid. This is why you tend to
           | see less left-wing content there. It's hard to be offensive
           | and left-wing.**
           | 
           | But even then I think it's wrong to say /pol/ is full of alt-
           | right content to be honest. There are alt-right people there
           | for sure, but huge amount of the political memes posted on
           | /pol/ are mocking the alt-right and the right more broadly.
           | The board is constantly roasting the MAGA movement, for
           | example.
           | 
           | As a brit my favourite threads on /pol/ are the brit/pol/
           | threads which basically just post politically incorrect memes
           | mocking Brits and joking about how shit the UK is. These
           | threads largely just Brits shitposting with each other and it
           | would be wrong to assume the existence of hateful anti-
           | British content on /pol/ is somehow evidence that /pol/ is
           | xenophobic against Brits. People should take a similar views
           | of the racist/alt-right threads - the vast majority of people
           | there are just trolling and being offensive for a laugh. You
           | don't have to like the humour, but most of it is just people
           | shit posting.
           | 
           | > they actively delete and ban posts that go against alt-
           | right.
           | 
           | Loads of stuff gets removed... If you're posting content that
           | "goes against the alt-right" you're probably taking the board
           | way way to seriously and you probably should be banned.
           | 
           | ** Interestingly another commenter in the thread asked about
           | why there's so much interracial porn on /pol/ if it's so
           | racist, which kinda highlights my point here. Just hating
           | white people isn't politically incorrect - there's people
           | doing that all over Reddit. To make hating white people
           | offensive you basically have to incorporate racist
           | stereotypes about about how whites are genetically inferrer
           | to blacks in various way, but then in doing this you'll get
           | viewed as racist and alt-right because you're using racial
           | stereotypes about how blacks are more athletic, etc.
           | 
           | If you're up for it I challenge you to be politically
           | incorrect from a left-wing perspective without it being
           | possible to argue that it's actually far-right.
        
             | WickyNilliams wrote:
             | The intent of the posters may be ironic subversion. But for
             | those reading? There's no doubt some portion that mistake
             | it for sincerity and are quietly being radicalised by it
             | all. Poe's Law and all that
        
             | codexon wrote:
             | > I will give my opinion of it because I think most people
             | don't get it and take the board wayy too seriously.
             | 
             | I don't take the board seriously.
             | 
             | The posts I made that got deleted for being "off topic"
             | were mocking the alt-right and I just wanted to get a
             | reaction out of people rather than trying to sway anyone. I
             | know I'm not going to convince anyone and I'm not trying to
             | get anyone elected.
             | 
             | So when I see my posts get deleted or I even get banned for
             | being "off topic" while a post on the same topic with an
             | alt-right bent stays up with 300 replies,it's a clear
             | indication that 4chan has a strong political bias and is
             | absolutely not free speech anymore as most people seem to
             | think it is.
        
             | 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
             | "you're typically missing the point."
             | 
             | You too buddy
        
             | ultimafan wrote:
             | There's little doubt in my mind that for every person on
             | websites like /pol/ that's taking the piss with subversive
             | "be as offensive/absurd to the status quo as you can" style
             | of humor there's at least one other person that's
             | internalized those kinds of views as a genuine belief
             | system.
             | 
             | I don't browse 4chan anymore though I did used to (a lot)
             | years ago. Take what I say as anecdotal evidence but I used
             | to chat with a group of people I met through a former
             | friend that seemed to start with a similar mindset to the
             | one you have and then went down the pipeline over a few
             | years of unironically espousing the most absurd abhorrent
             | kind of thoughts you'd see on /pol/ and feeling 100%
             | justified in doing so. They had gotten so used to seeing
             | and interacting with such content day in and day out that
             | it became normalized for them and they started to think
             | that such a large forum existing with people saying similar
             | things validated the way they began to think and act.
             | 
             | I think my main takeaway for sites like /pol/ is that you
             | can't really pretend to act one way for humor for extended
             | periods of time without it rubbing off on you in one way or
             | another and that there are too many young people out there
             | that stumble upon places like that and adopt those views
             | since they lack the world experience yet to have formed
             | their own.
        
         | timeinput wrote:
         | Piling on the "some parts of 4chan was good until it wasn't"
         | theme: I really liked /ck/ for a while. Then there was this
         | weird trend of just like "all food tubers are garbage" whether
         | that was "Kenji-Cucks", or people hating on Rageusa, or what
         | ever.
         | 
         | Combining that with the "post hands" request for a lot of food
         | it was just an unpleasant community to participate it.
         | 
         | Weirdly trying to load the page right now I'm getting
         | Connection timed out. Is hackernews ddosing 4chan? What a
         | world.
        
           | gosub100 wrote:
           | Ragusea is an idiot, though and I arrived at that conclusion
           | without any help from 4ch.
        
         | ren_engineer wrote:
         | /g/ was the origin of Chain of Thought for AI, also where llama
         | weights were first leaked
        
         | torginus wrote:
         | It's interesting to note the popularity of the website, and the
         | massive traffic it handled, despite the lack of everything we
         | assume necessary for a modern (social media) website
         | 
         | - no modern web frameworks
         | 
         | - no microservices/kubernetes clusters
         | 
         | - no algorithmic curation/moderation/recommendation algoritmhs
         | 
         | One wonders just how much of the modern engineering developed
         | in the past decades, that cost a fortune to develop and run is
         | actually necessary or even beneficial for running a modern
         | social media website
        
           | conradfr wrote:
           | Should have had updated dependencies though.
        
           | potato3732842 wrote:
           | I worked for a major internet company until 2020. HN would be
           | aghast how much "if we failed to provide this service a good
           | chunk of the internet would either go down or sites wouldn't
           | function properly and the stock market probably would dip"
           | stuff runs on redundant pairs of LAMP stacks and other
           | unsophisticated old stuff HN would turn up its nose at.
        
             | TZubiri wrote:
             | "Redundant pair of LAMP stacks"
             | 
             | Damn you got two of those? That's advanced magic
        
         | bigfatkitten wrote:
         | Even /b/ was pretty good back in the day. Memes and inside
         | jokes galore with almost no porn to be seen.
        
       | brigandish wrote:
       | I see a lot of hate for 4chan here. Why? I've never used it, know
       | it by reputation, but not sure why there's so much hate for it.
        
         | Philpax wrote:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4chan#Controversies_and_harass...
        
         | wewxjfq wrote:
         | This still stings: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6747373
        
           | karn97 wrote:
           | Even more true in 2025
        
         | ozmodiar wrote:
         | I hope this isn't too contentious but I'll try to cover most
         | things. I've posted this a few times, but I checked out 4Chan
         | about twice in the early days and saw CSAM both times and it
         | gave me personally a visceral hatred of the site. I've heard it
         | got better/that's not representative but it's a hard thing to
         | shake. The origin of the site is also supposedly Moot getting
         | kicked off SomethingAwful for posting 'lolicon' (child anime
         | porn). They've also gone after and doxxed pedophiles though, so
         | the sites relationship with that sort of content is...
         | complicated. I think most of the worst ended up moving to 4Chan
         | clones quite awhile ago because it really splintered again at
         | some point and became known as the cleaner Chan board.
         | 
         | It's also known for its extremely abrasive mildy sociopathic
         | culture and 4Chan posters have a very samey 'posting voice'
         | where if you don't like it you can hate it. It permeates a lot
         | of the internet, but 4chan is kind of seen as the epicenter. I
         | think it also gets blamed for a lot of negative internet
         | culture like doxxing and choosing targets to harass, although
         | I'm not sure how much of that was actually 4Chan. I think most
         | of those people moved on to Kiwifarms. 4Chan probably gets some
         | hate for things that other Chan sites have like Qanon in a sort
         | of 'you started this' way.
         | 
         | And finally the politics are complicated. It actually used to
         | be slightly left leaning or at least libertarian or anarchist,
         | but over the years pol in particular has been known to be hard
         | right wing. It definitely seems like they had a shift in
         | political tone for the (IMO) worst at some point.
         | 
         | Personally I won't hide that I'm a hater and an unapologetic
         | curmudgeonly old man, but that's my perception. On the other
         | hand if you think the CP stuff is overblown, don't care about
         | the negatives because there are apparently good boards there
         | that are insulated, or are just hard right yourself then it is
         | one of the last major discussion boards on the net. Some of
         | that's probably out of date (like I said I gave up on it pretty
         | quickly) but I'd wager most people with negative opinions are
         | thinking of one or more of those. I'd be interested if any
         | haters have other reasons.
        
           | sjsdaiuasgdia wrote:
           | > It actually used to be slightly left leaning or at least
           | libertarian or anarchist, but over the years pol in
           | particular has been known to be hard right wing.
           | 
           | If your bar doesn't kick out nazis, your bar becomes the nazi
           | hangout.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
        
           | Whoppertime wrote:
           | I don't know what CSAM is and after reading the rest of your
           | post I don't want to Google it
        
         | throwaway743 wrote:
         | Because people think /pol/ is 4chan, and it's easier to think
         | that and what others say about something than to invest time
         | into looking into something they were uninterested in looking
         | into to begin with
        
       | gherkinnn wrote:
       | You know, I always found Twitter (even pre-X) to be worse than
       | 4chan ever was. Not in obvious terms, but in how it fucked with
       | your head.
        
         | 1970-01-01 wrote:
         | This is a pretty good take! It's because you could verbally
         | attack and fight the 4chan idiots with a swarm of common sense
         | and be lauded for doing that job.
         | 
         | Doing the same on X will just get you banned for whatever
         | reason Elon feels is best 'for the community'.
        
           | lesbolasinc wrote:
           | I dont understand why twitter is so prevalent in the tech
           | community; and it's not like you can just 'not use it' - you
           | are at a true disadvantage if you aren't on twitter because
           | of how much discourse around new tech, private equity, etc
           | transpires on it.
           | 
           | I'm surprised a literal echo-chamber in which free speech is
           | suppressed for disagreeing with the party line is responsible
           | for so much productivity because of how many techbros are
           | active on it. What happened to the time where being a techbro
           | meant you were an open source libertarian like Stallman?
        
             | mlsu wrote:
             | I think that's just an artifact of twitter's history. It
             | was "normal" (increasingly algorithm slop driven) website
             | until roughly 1-2 years ago when it was bought out and
             | became maga slop.
             | 
             | Remember twitter came out in like 2007 when only tech
             | people were on the internet.
        
             | username332211 wrote:
             | The feedback mechanism on Twitter allows you to find useful
             | discussions of current affairs in less popular topics. Can
             | you find a good discussion of current events in
             | agribusiness on Reddit? No. On Facebook? No. But if you
             | open up Twitter and search for Arthur Daniels and you'll
             | find something useful.
             | 
             | So, when the manager at a company wants to publicize, he
             | has nowhere else to go.
             | 
             | > I'm surprised a literal echo-chamber in which free speech
             | is suppressed for disagreeing with the party line is
             | responsible for so much productivity because of how many
             | techbros are active on it.
             | 
             | Reddit is worse. Facebook is worse. Bluesky is a community
             | that couldn't stand Twitter changing it's party line, so
             | it's worse. Mastodon is complex and suffers from the same
             | problems as Bluesky.
             | 
             | Like it or not, Musk did choose his acquisition well.
        
               | lesbolasinc wrote:
               | Let me make it clear because I don't want to come across
               | as biased - Reddit, Facebook and platforms like it are
               | 1000% worse and or just as bad, no contest from me on
               | that part; the dialogue just skews a different way
               | depending on the platform.
               | 
               | To the first point though, I guess I just don't
               | understand how such niche and useful discussion ended up
               | on twitter and remains there out of all places. It seems
               | strange to find someone pushing moon-landing-is-fake
               | conspiracies on the same site nuanced discussion occurs
               | on some hyperfocused topic
        
               | username332211 wrote:
               | It's all about the technical features of the platform.
               | Twitter's design is less likely to encourage conformity,
               | so you can find far more insane content in it, but it's
               | also less likely to encourage people to pointlessly
               | discuss popular topics over and over.
               | 
               | Twitter allows for the existence of small ad-hoc
               | communities numbering a dozen people at most, without a
               | designated leader. Facebook groups, subreddits and
               | mastodon instances require that a community has a
               | designated dictatorial leader, be it an admin, a
               | moderator or an instance owner.
               | 
               | The most powerful method of expressing approval - the re-
               | tweet is likely to be used to promote _interesting_
               | statements. Blind adherence to conformity isn 't
               | interesting. Crazy conspiracy theories are interesting,
               | but so is specialized knowledge. All you have to do is
               | ignore the former, (unless conspiracy theories amuse
               | you).
        
             | jayd16 wrote:
             | I don't know. I think you can just not use it. You might
             | miss out on the daily chaff but anything of note will get
             | reposted elsewhere.
        
           | bananalychee wrote:
           | The pompous tone of your comment exemplifies what _actually_
           | makes most social media platforms awful, which is how people
           | act on them. Inconsistent moderation is everywhere, and most
           | people getting banned from X absolutely deserve it. If you
           | posted something like this on 4chan, people would quickly
           | tell you to get off your high horse (in more vulgar terms).
           | The nice thing about an anonymous message board is that
           | without a name or upvote count attached to your name, you don
           | 't get positive reinforcement for putting on a show of moral
           | superiority, and struggle sessions via petty call-outs or
           | pile-ons are not a thing beyond the lifetime of a thread. And
           | on the other side of the same coin, people are not afraid of
           | damaging their reputation by being uncouth, which helps not
           | take anything too seriously, and enables direct feedback
           | instead of passive-aggressive behavior.
        
           | newZWhoDis wrote:
           | Everything happens on X now.
           | 
           | Even when I'm forced to go back to Reddit, all the niche subs
           | I follow just post back to X links where the actual
           | discussion is happening.
        
         | amadeuspagel wrote:
         | Browsing different forums helps you recognize how discourse is
         | shaped by different feedback loops, how people troll on 4chan
         | or conform on reddit, rather then assuming that twitter is real
         | life.
        
         | carabiner wrote:
         | I received really heartfelt (to me) and sincere life advice on
         | 4chan. I think the fact that it's anonymous without a real
         | karma/voting system means there's a lot less ego-driven, self-
         | centered posting. People don't try to attack as much or have
         | bitter back-and-forths as much as twitter, reddit. They might
         | argue for a bit and then just say f it and move on. But there's
         | no motivation for ragebait, karma farming like there is on
         | twitter.
        
       | underseacables wrote:
       | I have been to 4chan maybe 4 times in my life. The first was like
       | ok.. Then I visited /b and LOL'd for a couple of hours. Then it
       | just got redundant and depressing. It really is the arsehole of
       | the internet, but some people seem to find it useful.
        
       | shipscode wrote:
       | The take on 4chan on here is super intriguing. I always felt that
       | the current social media/doomscroll/memesharing landscape which
       | has become so common worldwide is indiscernable and in some ways
       | worse than 4chan. It feels like 4chan left it's homepage and went
       | worldwide sometime in the early 2010s when iPhone-style phone use
       | became more commonplace.
       | 
       | I remember that 4chan users had more honor than users on the
       | internet today. One example would be 4Chan's "Not your personal
       | army" mentality vs. the widespread doxxing/"call their place of
       | employment!" witch hunts, driven by huge accounts on
       | IG/Tiktok/etc, that hit normal people daily.
       | 
       | The modern social media landscape has become far more hectic,
       | harmful, and downright scary than 4chan. Dodging explicit imagery
       | is harder on Instagram's explore page than on 4chan, and the
       | widespread popularization of OF creators has zero bounds across
       | the socials. DOXXING is no longer frowned upon and now
       | commonplace. And memes have become less unique and funny and more
       | commoditized.
        
         | gtirloni wrote:
         | Isn't that the path that most platforms follow once they get
         | mildly popular?
        
         | amadeuspagel wrote:
         | "Not your personal army" goes father then not doxxing. It's a
         | rejection of any attempt to imagine a community of strangers,
         | united by hatred of a scapegoat.
        
           | shadowgovt wrote:
           | If someone rallied a hate-mob on 4chan, though, how would
           | people know?
           | 
           | Since 4chan overtly resists it, it'd rapidly move off of
           | there, but it's still a great place to find like-minded folks
           | that'd follow someone to another server to go brigade
           | someone.
        
             | Klonoar wrote:
             | 4chan has always claimed to resist it, but 4chan was never
             | immune to being shuffled a specific way.
        
           | bboygravity wrote:
           | So "not your personal army" == don't be a journalist?
        
             | anigbrowl wrote:
             | [delayed]
        
         | foolfoolz wrote:
         | modern 4chan has a certain authentic charm to it. this is
         | missing from most other places. you have to sift past loads of
         | junk to get it, but you have to do that on any app to get the
         | content you want.
         | 
         | with no names, likes, virality, accounts, etc there's less
         | focus on writing the basic filler comments. less companies
         | trying to sell me stuff. less focus groups trying to tell me
         | what to think. and with less censorship you end up seeing more
         | creativity
        
       | cobson wrote:
       | gem
        
         | sensanaty wrote:
         | no coal to be found here
        
       | greazy wrote:
       | 4chan is a reflection of the depraved, extreme side of humanity.
       | Twitter has taken on the mantle of 'asshole of the internet', but
       | I think the rotten apples post in both.
       | 
       | 4chan is oddly accepting of gay and trans people. I've seen gay
       | and trans porn side by side with bbc and bwc porn posts. Strange
       | to see racist trans porn lovers.
       | 
       | I like 4chan for the minor boards, not /pol/ or /b/. But
       | /boardgames/ and /dyi/ and /international/. The absurd humor,
       | green texts that make absolutely no sense, or ones that lead down
       | a strange and wonderful path.
       | 
       | I like being anonymous on the internet.
        
         | Blikkentrekker wrote:
         | > _4chan is oddly accepting of gay and trans people. I 've seen
         | gay and trans porn side by side with bbc and bwc porn posts.
         | Strange to see racist trans porn lovers._
         | 
         | It only seems odd because many people interpret this through a
         | U.S.A. "culture war" lens and "gay people". You believe they're
         | "accepting of gay people" in the sense of that culture war
         | because of the "gay porn". In reality, they take more of a
         | classical Graeco-Roman approach to it and believe it's
         | completely normal for the average male to be attracted to cute
         | twinks as the Romans did and often even reject the very notion
         | of "sexual orientations" to begin with. Their "support" is
         | definitely not in the sense of what one would expect of the
         | U.S.A. "culture war", jokes such as the below illustrate well
         | what the culture is:
         | 
         | https://i.pinimg.com/736x/55/fe/d1/55fed16b625f9c5869587908f...
        
           | greazy wrote:
           | I should have used a better example to support my point.
           | 
           | I was referring to the website it self allowing gay and trans
           | content, and even other non mainstream content (furry, MLP).
           | The content is not just porn related (though a big chunk of
           | it is).
           | 
           | On the porn front, I don't agree with liking 'lady dick'
           | twink lovers only. There's 'normal' gay content (male on
           | male).
           | 
           | On the non porn content, lots of posts will begin with 'Im a
           | gayfag' (fag here I used as a catch all self deprecating
           | term, some users will say I'm a oldfag, even seen ladyfag).
           | Never seen any outright harassment of gay people when they
           | post.
           | 
           | Having said that, there is straight gay, trans, minority
           | hating posts and content.
           | 
           | 4chan is a wild jungle. Or was.
        
         | ashleyn wrote:
         | Neither site is a den of repute but it's notable that I can
         | still say the word "cisgender" on 4chan, or openly insult moot
         | and call him whatever I want without being banned for it (while
         | mainstream sites select who is protected from harassment and
         | who isn't, either along political lines or who owns the site).
        
           | Klonoar wrote:
           | moot hasn't been relevant for years.
        
             | h2zizzle wrote:
             | Hiroshimoot, then.
        
       | omnivore wrote:
       | Meh, good riddance. The old internet wasn't all good.
        
       | pfdietz wrote:
       | It was always possible to ID 4chan posters via court orders,
       | wasn't it? I mean, Sheriff Mike Chitwood had 3 (or was it 4)
       | people who posted death threats against him there arrested
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | Of course. I remember reading transcripts of Cristopher Poole
         | cooperating in court during a trial. He used to straight up
         | tell users he would fully cooperate with authorities if
         | required. Nobody there is in the business of going to jail.
         | 
         | You're anonymous to other users. Unless you're behind seven
         | proxies, connecting your posts to your real identity is as
         | simple as correlating 4chan logs with ISP logs. Usually that
         | requires court orders so it tends to happen in response to real
         | offenses. Insulting each other with slurs isn't enough for a
         | court order so it's fine. Chances are the NSA knows all your
         | posts regardless.
        
       | danso wrote:
       | Any articles about the technical details of the hack?
        
       | bitbasher wrote:
       | Meh, I don't feel bad.
       | 
       | The worst interview I ever had in tech was with Christopher Poole
       | when he was founding canv.as, it's hard to feel bad for him.
        
         | johnnyjeans wrote:
         | What was bad about the interview? Can you share any details?
        
           | bitbasher wrote:
           | The arrogance and better than thou attitude. He was like the
           | male version of Ellen Degeneres.
        
         | pizzadog wrote:
         | Can you expand on this? I remember canv.as, it was a weird but
         | interesting project but it seemed doomed from the outset.
        
       | cherryteastain wrote:
       | Rip 4chan. For all the bad it did, 4chan also made at least one
       | real contribution to science [1], specifically to the study of
       | superpermutations (aka the Haruhi problem), which was cited by
       | genuine academics. We should try to remember it by that.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/24/18019464/4chan-anon-
       | anim...
        
         | lwidvrizokdhai wrote:
         | Oh wow, that's genuinely cool.
        
       | robtherobber wrote:
       | Interesting to see HN user _astrange_ as the admin.
        
       | lesbolasinc wrote:
       | besides the fact 4chan is a cesspool I think there's a certain
       | sadness that comes with the possible death of another "early-
       | internet" forum.
       | 
       | I feel like 4chan was the last living source of what the young
       | internet was like - raw, unfiltered, and honest. You've got to
       | admit in today's day and age that's genuinely something rare
       | especially in current time of grift culture.
       | 
       | so much history potentially gone, just like BB.com's forums...
        
       | fooList wrote:
       | China could say less restricted American internet is racist,
       | because we tolerate content they do not. Like 4chan tolerates
       | what Reddit does not. Would it be a fallacy to say people who
       | chose to escape Chinese censorship online are racists? Maybe it's
       | a matter of degree or something?
        
       | lwidvrizokdhai wrote:
       | It was bound to come tumbling down eventually. I've had good
       | times in some of the discussion boards and especially with some
       | of the more chill and creative boards like /qst/. the influence
       | of /pol/ overshadows pretty much every board though, and it's
       | rare to see a thread go by without some
       | racist/sexist/transphobic/homophobic bile being spilled
       | unfortunately.
        
       | tannhaeuser wrote:
       | Why are we speaking in the past tense here? Is it established
       | that 4chan is going down?
        
       | helle253 wrote:
       | Wow, the comments on this thread are much more divisive than I
       | thought.
       | 
       | I've always felt that the 'there are only two internet cultures:
       | 4chan and tumblr' has felt somewhat accurate. Unfortunately
       | moreso now that /pol/ and /r9k/ have taken over broad swathes of
       | the internet.
       | 
       | It's sad to see how far this old haunt has fallen. Lurking /v/ in
       | my early/mid teens was a formative experience for me. It wasn't
       | as hateful as it was, until Gamergate.
        
         | h2zizzle wrote:
         | /r9k/ is such a weird situation, because its original
         | incarnation prided itself on being an intellectual bastion on
         | the site. The robot meant that you couldn't meme so easily; you
         | had to attempt to write something substantial or meaningful (or
         | at least original). Most were simply discussions, but you'd
         | also get creative gems like futureguy's sobering predictions
         | (well, history, for him).
         | 
         | tfwnogf really did kill everything.
        
         | throwanem wrote:
         | > I've always felt that the 'there are only two internet
         | cultures: 4chan and tumblr' has felt somewhat accurate.
         | 
         | "Somewhat accurate" is exactly right.
         | 
         | This formulation overstates the number of Internet cultures by
         | one, in that the deepest and most shameful secret of both
         | websites' most avid users is that they have always been _both_
         | websites ' most avid users.
         | 
         | Other than that, there's nothing wrong with it.
        
       | skifreevictim wrote:
       | For all of its many flaws and the boatload of trouble that has
       | come of it, I still ultimately believe that 4chan is unfairly
       | maligned.
       | 
       | I can't deny that the majority of the website's culture has been
       | tainted by idpol bickering ever since /pol/ was added to it, but
       | I'm always going to appreciate 4chan for being a place where I
       | can write ostensibly anonymous posts and talk with other
       | likeminded people about anything and everything. When you have a
       | funny, good faith conversation with someone else on a website
       | that gives you no incentive whatsoever to have one, it feels
       | good.
       | 
       | Soyjak.st is unfortunately nothing like that. It is a website
       | about itself, and itself is a parody of post-2014 rightwing 4chan
       | meme slop culture. It is earnestly what most people believe the
       | entirety of 4chan to be.
        
       | on_the_train wrote:
       | What a sad day. It's the best page on the net by a wide margin.
       | Hope they'll recover
        
       | duxup wrote:
       | I'll ask I guess.
       | 
       | People still use 4chan?
       | 
       | I recall 4chan at one short point in time being a semi amusing
       | meme posting spot on the web but as always as soon as it was
       | popular it turned into a lot of "edgelord" spam and drama.
        
         | Loughla wrote:
         | There was a time that if you weren't on 4chan, you missed
         | everything good. I remember staying awake for 20 hours tracking
         | one thread. If you left it was gone forever and you genuinely
         | missed out. 2004-5 area.
         | 
         | That being said, I haven't been back since 2014? It was always
         | pretty heavily influenced by b and pol, but it got really bad
         | the two years before Trump 1. Alt right bullshit took over
         | completely.
         | 
         | It astounds me that people think 4 Chan is a place for
         | deviants, but Twitter is fine. Twitter is 10,000x worse.
        
         | lastcobbo wrote:
         | And longcat, don't forget him
        
           | duxup wrote:
           | Good point.
        
       | throwaway743 wrote:
       | /pol is trash.
       | 
       | /b used to be good till early-mid 2010s when it became 95%
       | hentai/porn instead of 30%, after sabu squealed and the fbi took
       | over.
        
       | partiallypro wrote:
       | Honestly surprised this isn't getting more coverage, not just in
       | the media but here.
        
       | robotnikman wrote:
       | I did some digging and the hacker posted which exploit he used.
       | 
       | Apparently some boards allowed uploading PDF files, but the site
       | never checked if the PDF file was an actual PDF file. Once a PDF
       | file was uploaded it was passed to a version of Ghostscript from
       | 2012 which would generate a thumbnail. So the attacker found an
       | exploit where uploading a PDF with the right PostScript commands
       | could give the attacker shell access.
        
         | lastcobbo wrote:
         | Bobby Tables can't keep getting away with this
        
           | jncfhnb wrote:
           | Bobby Ignore All Previous Instructions however...
        
         | ranger_danger wrote:
         | Why would you say how you did it? Now they can't do it all over
         | again when it comes back /s
        
         | 0x303 wrote:
         | Got a source? Not doubting, just curious.
        
           | robotnikman wrote:
           | search through the thread on the site where that attack came
           | from. ctrl+f postscript and you will find the post
        
           | A_D_E_P_T wrote:
           | Here: https://i.ibb.co/9mWLp4m9/4chanhack.jpg
        
         | loves_mangoes wrote:
         | That checks out. Years ago I noticed a vulnerability through
         | the photography board. You'd upload your pictures, and 4chan
         | would display all the EXIF info next to the post.
         | 
         | 4chan's PHP code would offload that task to a well-know, but
         | old and not very actively maintained EXIF library. Of course
         | the thing with EXIF is that each camera vendor has their own
         | proprietary extensions that need to be supported to make users
         | happy. And as you'd expect from a library that parses a bunch
         | of horrible undocumented formats in C, it's a huge insecure
         | mess.
         | 
         | Several heap overflows and arbitrary writes all over the place.
         | Heap spray primitives. Lots of user controlled input since you
         | provide your own JPEG. Everything you could want.
         | 
         | So I wrote a little PoC out of curiosity. Crafted a little 20kB
         | JPG that would try to allocate several GBs worth of heap spray.
         | I submit my post, and the server dutifully times out.
         | 
         | And that's where I'd like to say I finished my PoC and reported
         | the vulnerability, but in fact I got stuck on a reliable ASLR
         | bypass and lost interest (I did send an email about the
         | library, but I don't think it was actively maintained and there
         | was no followup)
         | 
         | My impression from this little adventure is that 4chan never
         | really had the maintenance and code quality it needed.
         | Everything still seemed to be the same very old PHP code that
         | leaked years ago (which included this same call to the
         | vulnerable EXIF library). Just with a bunch of extra features
         | hastily grafted and grown organically, but never dealing with
         | the insane amount of technical debt.
        
           | bigfatkitten wrote:
           | As far as I can tell, no real maintenance has happened since
           | Poole sold the site a decade ago. Hiroyuki paid for it and
           | then mostly forgot about it.
        
         | qingcharles wrote:
         | This is such a common hole. One of my early hacks was a forum
         | that allowed you to upload a pfp but didn't check it was
         | actually an image. Just upload an ASP file which is coded to
         | provide an explorer-like interface. Found the administrator
         | password in a text file. It was "internet" just like that. RDP
         | was open. This was a hosting provider for 4000+ companies. Sent
         | them an email. No thank you for that one.
         | 
         | Always check what is getting uploaded.
        
           | Arch-TK wrote:
           | Uploading ASP as an image and having it execute server side
           | is one thing.
           | 
           | But in this case, it's subtly different.
           | 
           | This issue relies more on a quirk of how PDF and PostScript
           | relate (PDF is built on a subset of postscript).
           | 
           | Imagine you had an image format which was just C which when
           | compiled and ran produced the width, height, and then stream
           | of RGB values to form an image. And you formalised this such
           | that it had to have a specific structure so that if someone
           | wanted to, they didn't have to write a C compiler, they could
           | just pull out the key bits from this file which looks like
           | ordinary C and produce the same result.
           | 
           | Now imagine that your website supports uploading such image
           | files, and you need to render them to produce a thumbnail,
           | but instead of using a minimal implementation of the standard
           | which doesn't need to compile the code, you go ahead and just
           | run gcc on it and run the output.
           | 
           | That's kind of more or less what happened here.
           | 
           | It's worth noting here that it's not really common knowledge
           | that PDF is basically just a subset of postscript. So it's
           | actually a bit less surprising that these guys fell for this,
           | as it's as if C had become some weird language nobody talks
           | about, and GCC became known as "that tool to wrangle that
           | image format" rather than a general purpose C compiler.
           | 
           | The attackers in this case relied on some ghostscript
           | exploits, that's true, but if you never ran the resulting
           | C-image-format binaries, you could still get pwned through
           | GCC exploits.
        
         | Funes- wrote:
         | Reminds me of how people were crashing the PSP's XMB with BMP
         | and TIFF files twenty years ago. I was just a kid, and began
         | "pirating" every one of my classmates' consoles (some in
         | exchange for a small amount of money). Good times.
        
       | anonnon wrote:
       | People talk about some "4chan to alt-right" pipeline, yet ignore
       | the "excessive moderation/tone-policing to 4chan" pipeline, as
       | in, a large % of 4channers (and probably KFers) only ever ended
       | up there because the tone-policing on sites like HN and reddit is
       | simply out of control.
       | 
       | "Civility" is prized above truth, and irony isn't understood or
       | much tolerated. Case in point, that post from the ex-Googler
       | whining about his pinkslip the other day. A normie (extroverted,
       | no autism), who worked for Google (evil), whose high-paying job
       | was "developer relations" (?), and whose complete shock and
       | indignation at his termination gives away that he's probably led
       | a charmed life up to now where everything has always worked out--
       | and, judging by HN's reaction, I'm supposed to be _sympathetic_
       | to him? He also had a _full sleeve tattoo_ on one arm--enough to
       | disqualify him from many forms of gainful employment in a saner
       | era.
       | 
       | Yet pointing any of this out is enough to net downvotes, flags,
       | or even bans. Which is to say, I miss /g/.
        
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