[HN Gopher] Kezurou-Kai #39
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Kezurou-Kai #39
Author : nabla9
Score : 252 points
Date : 2025-04-14 07:47 UTC (15 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.bigsandwoodworking.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.bigsandwoodworking.com)
| WJW wrote:
| Wow 10 micron is a lot smaller than I thought a handmade wood
| shaving would be. Th champions are even better in the single
| digits consistently.
| temp0826 wrote:
| The picture of the winners had "3 4 5" and "4 4 4" which I
| think is 3 measurements on each of the cuts
| EncomLab wrote:
| Fascinating! I love when people see and appreciate a simple
| skill, then take it to the most extreme level of refinement
| possible.
| kappasan wrote:
| Tangential but the name is a pun - "kezuroukai" translates to
| "shall we shave?" in Japanese, but "kai" can also mean something
| like "gathering" or "community".
| bamboozled wrote:
| Japanese hand plane has to be one of the most satisfying tools to
| use...if you're into wood working, really worth trying one.
| cinntaile wrote:
| What's the difference between a regular hand plane and a
| Japanese one? They look quite similar to me?
| marcomourao wrote:
| Japanese hand planes shave with a pull motion instead of
| push.
| aredox wrote:
| Quite a few different "technological" choices, mostly
| informed by different circumstances:
|
| -You pull them instead of pushing them, because Japanese
| carpenters used to work on the floor using their own body to
| brace the work piece
|
| -All wood construction because steel has always been a rare
| material in a volcanic island without much iron ore veins
| like Japan
|
| -Most Japanese native woods (pawlonia, cedar) are on the soft
| side compared to European and American (and from the XIXth
| century onwards, tropical such as ebony, mahogany) woods.
| Which is also why they manage to make such thing shavings
| without tears.
| yojo wrote:
| I wonder if the pulling motion helps with less tearing too.
| From my limited understanding of drafting and painting,
| humans are able to exhibit much better control when pulling
| a pencil/brush toward them than when pushing away.
|
| I've only ever used a western-style push planet, but
| intuitively I think I'd have more control with one designed
| for pulling.
| Daneel_ wrote:
| I've seen some contestants(?) plane at a slight angle
| too. I feel like this would also assist with achieving a
| cleaner result. I know I do this with my own push-style
| planer.
| aredox wrote:
| I don't think you can reduce tearing with fine muscular
| control. The physics of cutting are weird; cutting at an
| angle is different, the chipbreaker plays a huge role,
| vibration ("chatter") has to be kept under control, and
| the best way to avoid tearing is usually scraping - where
| the cutting edge has a completely different geometry from
| a plane iron.
|
| The trend in western planes has been to use speed, the
| weight and rigidity of iron to cut through wood before it
| has time to flex, whereas you see those Japanese planes
| cutting slowly - but again, traditional Japanese wood is
| softer and less knotty or wavy than the oak or walnut or
| exotics that are a staple of traditional western
| woodworking. Look at the Australian woodworking scene for
| ex., their native wood species are challenging.
| bamboozled wrote:
| I really enjoy the simplicity of the tool, it's just a great
| experience, you need to tap the plane or "kana" to get the
| blade into the right position, and I find the pulling rather
| than pushing is really satisfying. Maybe it's just different
| and I love it for that reason.
|
| As others have said, I like the all wooden construction too.
|
| I like western style hand planes too.
| timssopomo wrote:
| Before the industrial revolution, there wasn't a ton of
| difference. If you look at a plane made in the early 19th
| century in both Japan and the US or Europe, they'd look
| pretty similar. A carpenter on one continent would probably
| be able to orient and use tools on the other easily.
|
| Modern metal-bodied planes do work similarly, in that both
| let you set a blade slightly beyond a flat sole, allowing you
| to remove high surfaces on wood. That's about where the
| similarities end.
|
| Japanese blades are laminated steel, and quality blades are
| hand-made by smiths. Smiths use proprietary techniques to
| make blades that can maintain edges for longer than machine-
| forged steels. Chipbreakers are made of laminated steel as
| well and can keep the primary blade under tons of tension,
| allowing it to remain stable even when cutting against the
| grain. Wooden bodies allow skilled users to adjust the blade
| depth within microns without sacrificing stability. Wooden
| bodies are easily adjusted to fit the needs of the user.
|
| To use an analogy: using a western hand plane is a lot like
| trying to race a Camry rather than a Porsche. It's not that
| the Camry is wrong - it's just built differently. The Porsche
| is really easy to drive into a ditch if you're not careful.
| It'll break down a lot, but it'll also perform much better
| for a skilled driver. The Camry, conversely, will be easier
| for anyone to drive and probably go a lot longer without
| maintenance. It works fine as a daily driver, and you can
| tune it so that it'll perform like a Porsche would, but a
| very well-tuned Camry is probably not going to outperform a
| well-tuned Porsche and a person used to driving a Porsche is
| probably going to complain about the Camry's handling.
| anentropic wrote:
| > Wooden bodies allow skilled users to adjust the blade
| depth within microns without sacrificing stability.
|
| I know nothing much about hand planes except what they are
|
| But why couldn't a metal-bodied plane to do the same?
| Wouldn't it potentially be stiffer and more stable?
| timssopomo wrote:
| Metal bodied planes are adjusted with thumb screws and
| levers - they just aren't accurate enough for fine work.
|
| Re: a woooden body, there are a couple reasons it's
| preferable despite the maintenance - the biggest is that
| they can be adjusted to fit a specific blade and chip
| breaker. Since the blade and chip breaker are made by
| hand, you can't mass produce a body and still have the
| tool perform. The other big concerns are weight and
| economy. Metal bodies are way heavier. And if they break
| or are damaged, can't be easily fixed. A wood body can be
| made in a few minutes with materials that are usually
| found on hand.
| zkmon wrote:
| Wondering why it is so satisfying. It tells that what you pursue
| doesn't matter. It can be a wood-planing contest or some silly
| hobby. What matters is that you are motivated to pursue it. You
| believe in improving that pursuit, you see others doing the same,
| you believe it is the social norm, you see that it is valued and
| respected. And most importantly you feel good about it.
|
| Talk about things like investing in stocks, being known as a
| great techie or entrepreneur, exiting a great startup, running a
| venture capital, making a few million, becoming US citizen,
| having a great home etc. These goals are not bad. Just that they
| cost more, for the same returns (satisfaction). You are more
| successful when your happiness doesn't cost you a life-time
| running around or some herculean effort.
| snarf21 wrote:
| It is all about purpose and hope and expectations. It is why
| 90% of the satisfaction of a vacation is from the planning. We
| highly underestimate the mental health benefits of a hobby.
| They are also a great place to make friends and connect with
| others, especially as we get older. People deep in a hobby will
| gladly spend hours helping n00bs and will talk your ear off
| about all the ins and outs. There are also lots of hobbies that
| have almost no barrier to entry, just the willingness to try
| something new.
|
| We'd all be a _lot_ happier if we spent more time on a hobby
| and less time streaming shows.
| cmcconomy wrote:
| you're stating that vacation planning is 90% of the pleasure
| as a truism???
| klik99 wrote:
| Yeah that indicates more about posters personality,
| especially since it's phrased as a universal.
|
| I'm more of a wing-it-but-have-a-backup-list kind of
| vacationer, planning is literally the least fun part for
| me.
|
| _edit_ the rest of what he says resonates with me though
| numpad0 wrote:
| These guys aren't privileged ruling class elites. They have no
| skills and paths and connections needed to see successes in
| such ventures. I actually think that is how China now has
| "football fields full of engineers", the competitive
| environment in Far East regions had been so over the top that
| qualities that should make somebody cream of the crop globally
| only float them halfway down the mug locally.
| admp wrote:
| If you're fascinated by or interested in Japanese carpentry and
| happen to be in London before July, go and visit
| https://www.japanhouselondon.uk/whats-on/the-craft-of-carpen....
| It's free and quite excellent.
| whalesalad wrote:
| It's remarkable how often I get pushed some form of content in my
| YT weekend algo, and then at the beginning of the week the same
| thing is on the top of HN. We are all in the same funnel.
| jeromenerf wrote:
| Planning wood, expect during kezuroukai, is annoying because
| knots are hard and deform the thin edge; most often still wet
| enough to oxydize the thin edge; finally full of abrasive
| silicium to abrade the thin edge.
|
| Meanwhile, lake erie toolworks is creating powder metallurgy CPM
| magnacut blades for western style planes, which seemingly never
| gets dull because of corrosion resistance, wear resistance and
| hardness.
| finnh wrote:
| That room must have smelled amazing. I want to go hang out there.
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