[HN Gopher] The dark side of the Moomins
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The dark side of the Moomins
Author : SebaSeba
Score : 235 points
Date : 2025-04-13 13:15 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.newstatesman.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.newstatesman.com)
| JKCalhoun wrote:
| https://archive.ph/okLEv
| Arn_Thor wrote:
| Grew up watching Moomin on TV and it left with life lessons, good
| values and deep trauma...
| monero-xmr wrote:
| Somehow encompasses the life outlook of all my Finnish
| relatives
| baq wrote:
| Now read the comic books...
| binarysneaker wrote:
| Same. Here's the first season (in English) for anyone who's
| interested https://archive.org/details/moomin-
| season-1/%5BMoomin+Master...
| amiga386 wrote:
| Same here. I'm not sure what the "not translated into English
| until 2005" in TFA is meant to mean; sure, maybe that specific
| book wasn't translated until that date, but much of Europe
| watched the Polish fuzzy-felt TV adaption in 1978 or 1985.
| tikotus wrote:
| I'm not sure how tongue in cheek this was, but I assume it's
| serious. Either way, it's a fun and smart read.
|
| The article spots well the dark side of the moomins, but in my
| opinion goes too deep into it. My disagreements boil down to
| this: "One of the oddest aspects of the Moomin phenomenon is how
| these complex tales of apocalypse, breakdown and disfunction have
| been consistently misread as cutesy celebrations of domestic
| life." Yes, all these things exist, but the point to me has
| always been that they are cutesy despite that! The stories paint
| a very typical family dynamic (at least of the time, at least in
| a Finnish swedish speaking family like Tove's), throws it into
| weirdest situations, and they all survive together thanks to, and
| despite, their dysfunctions. And Moominmamma is the most
| wholesome character ever, period.
| philips wrote:
| I love the books, I have read them all to my kids, and I agree
| that I think the article takes its thesis too far.
|
| The books are strange tales. They have dark undertones. And
| sometimes the adults take actions that only someone with life
| experience would really understand (e.g. Moominpappa wanting to
| suddenly upend everything in the families life and move to an
| isolated island). But, my kids mostly pick up on the adventure
| and the friendships.
|
| I feel that the Moomins are like most media that is enjoyable
| by both children and parents in this way (e.g. Bluey, Pixar
| films, etc.).
| kleinishere wrote:
| Based on your experience, what age do you think is ideal for
| introducing the books to kids?
| sireat wrote:
| Not the previous poster, but based on my own experience as
| a kid and also my kids I'd say age 5 is perfectly good age
| to introduce the books.
|
| As an adult you pick up on some the more serious themes but
| as a kid you just enjoy the story and the bit of danger and
| overcoming and the overall wholesomeness.
| philips wrote:
| I started reading the novel stories when the kids were 3yo
| and 6yo. Both love them. My 3yo for the drawings mostly.
|
| There are a number of excellent picture book adaptations of
| stories that have been published too. But, we read those
| afterwards and obviously they aren't as enjoyable to me.
|
| Because this is HN: My tradition is to use my Inkpalm 5 and
| read them with the lights out at bedtime- we pass the
| reader around to look at pictures.
| nonrandomstring wrote:
| Mine started 5/6, but the more recent books are made for
| kids. The earlier newspaper cartoons are not. Same with TV,
| the later Japanese/Dutch produced TV series is lovely. The
| earlier TV series (there are several) are dark as the
| cupboard under the stairs and the Groke goes postal killing
| everything in one.
|
| [0] https://www.moomin.com/en/blog/moomin-tv-animations/
| bazoom42 wrote:
| While all the books have both humour and darkness, the
| early books are more whimsical and playful while the later
| books are more about loneliness, alienation, and loss.
| bazoom42 wrote:
| The cutesy family parts kind of evaporates towards the later
| books though. The last book is about longing for a moominmamma
| which is no longer there.
|
| To be fair, Jansson never claimed she wrote for kids in the
| first place.
| fsloth wrote:
| Spot on. I think the author did not think through their
| argument: ""One of the oddest aspects of the Moomin phenomenon
| is how these complex tales of apocalypse, breakdown and
| disfunction have been consistently misread as cutesy
| celebrations of domestic life.""
|
| But that's exactly what makes domestic life worth celebrating -
| at best it sustains you through disaster and hardship. What
| better way to celebrate it than to show it's strength?
| bazoom42 wrote:
| Is it really a celebration of family life when Moominpappa
| uproots the whole family because of his midlife crisis and
| sends Moominmamma into depression?
| pavlov wrote:
| They come through it wiser and more in touch with
| themselves.
|
| A family is a place where you should be able to also be
| something else than the ideal version of yourself that
| you'd like to show the rest of the world, something less
| perfect and more work-in-progress. Moomins lean heavily on
| showing how that actually makes their family stronger.
| bazoom42 wrote:
| > They come through it wiser and more in touch with
| themselves.
|
| Are you sure? Or is this just projecting the ideals we
| _think_ childrens books are supposed to have? How is
| Moominmamma changed after the ordeal on the lonely
| island? - we don't know, because the next book is about
| missing her and about how her absence affects the
| characters left behind.
|
| The darker threads in the Moomin books are not hidden. It
| is all in plain view.
|
| Like the squirrel which is too absent minded to seek
| shelter when the hard frost hits. Guess what - it freezes
| to death. They give it a nice burial though.
| fsloth wrote:
| I would say yes. In my standards that still accounts for
| interesting-life-choices-but-safe-and-sane. But I grew up
| in an alcoholic family so realize my standards are likely
| slightly low-bar for what accounts for 'admirable'.
| xg15 wrote:
| I wonder if the title was tongue in cheek. Dark Side of the
| Moo(mi)n?
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| I've been listening to Moomin audiobooks and reading some of
| the books to my wife in recent years, and I started to spot
| some of the more adult/darker subtext in it (I'm _still_
| processing the one where the Moominpappa makes the entire
| family move to a lighthouse, and Moominmamma is desperately
| trying to cope with growing depression). Still, I have an
| answer for the author 's conundrum, that's accurate for a
| significant fraction of the readerbase:
|
| > _" One of the oddest aspects of the Moomin phenomenon is how
| these complex tales of apocalypse, breakdown and disfunction
| have been consistently misread as cutesy celebrations of
| domestic life."_
|
| It's actually really simple. Here in Poland, myself and my
| entire generation grew up _watching the children cartoon
| adaptation of the Moomins_. It was cute, it was happy, it had
| nice art and music, it was suitable for small children but
| engaging even to older ones, and it was aired when all kids
| would be watching[0]. This was our generation 's intro to the
| Moomins, and it colored how we read the books.
|
| I imagine the case is similar all across Europe. A whole
| generation primed to read these stories as positive and light-
| hearted, because of a TV adaptation.
|
| --
|
| [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wieczorynka - public TV
| (TVP1), every day at 19:00, just before the evening news slot.
| In times I grew up, watching this was pretty much a national
| tradition for any family with children.
| thih9 wrote:
| > It was cute, it was happy
|
| Many episodes had darker undertones as well, especially those
| with the Groke[1] or hattifatteners. Tvtropes has a list[2].
|
| > The Groke was so horrifying in fact, that in Poland it
| caused a nation-wide fear in almost all children, some of
| which were even left traumatised for years, leading to some
| parents forbidding their children from watching Moomins, and
| some using the Groke as a Bogeyman to scare their children
| into good behavior. Any 90s or 2000s Polish kid will know how
| it felt.
|
| [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Groke
|
| [2]: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/NightmareFuel/The
| Moom...
| nanis wrote:
| First time I heard about the Moomins. I thought this was about
| Mumins[1].
|
| [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumin
| selimthegrim wrote:
| The crossover waiting to happen
| _def wrote:
| Ha and I thought it was just me. Have been rewatching some
| episodes some years ago and found it a bit creepy at times,
| although of course a bit sugar coated and abstract. Actually a
| great way to make it work for all ages.
| bazoom42 wrote:
| Multiple comments here referring to tv-shows. Just be aware that
| Tove Jansson wrote and illustrated books and comics but did not
| produce tv shows. What you have seen was not created by Tove
| Jansson.
|
| The comics and the books are different in genre, even if they use
| the same characters and storylines. The comics are darkly
| satirial of modern life while the illustrated books feels more
| poetic and timeless.
|
| Fun fact: Jansson illustrated The Hobbit and drew Gollum as a
| giant. Tolkien realized he never described the size of Gollum and
| made adjustments to later editions.
| franek wrote:
| > Fun fact: Jansson illustrated The Hobbit and drew Gollum as a
| giant. Tolkien realized he never described the size of Gollum
| and made adjustments to later editions.
|
| For those curious like me, here are some low-res images:
|
| https://zepe.de/tjillu/hobbit/index.html
|
| And here an article about the illustrations (haven't read) with
| a a few images in higher resolution (including Gollum):
|
| https://tovejansson.com/hobbit-tolkien/
| gs17 wrote:
| I don't think there's any reason to gatekeep this so strongly.
| The original anime and it's sequel, maybe, but both Tove and
| Lars Jansson were heavily involved with other series.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moomins_(TV_series) :
|
| > It is, in contrast to the 1990s series, widely believed to be
| the most faithful TV adaptation of Tove Jansson's stories, and
| much closer to her vision. Tove herself had a great deal of
| involvement during the series' production and was very happy
| with it (as revealed in an interview with Anne Wood in Simon
| Sheridan's 2007 book The A to Z of Classic Children's
| Television). The scripts for each episode were translated from
| Polish into Swedish and sent to Tove and Lars Jansson, who, if
| they felt that anything needed to be changed, corrected the
| script, expanding or rewriting it; afterwards, the scripts were
| sent back and only then did production of the particular
| episode begin.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moomin_(1990_TV_series) :
|
| > Tove and Lars Jansson were also involved with the screenplay
| by doing certain changes in scripts.
| bazoom42 wrote:
| OK but the article in question describes and reviews the
| books and illustrations by the Finnish artist Tove Jansson.
| It is not about a tv-show.
| gs17 wrote:
| People like the animation too, there's no reason to
| gatekeep Moomin of all things.
| lifeisstillgood wrote:
| They are children's tales - which are designed to hide lessons
| and warnings on the dark side of life in a wrapper that does not
| traumatise - like an inoculation against what comes.
|
| Everything the Grimms brothers collected and Disney sanitised
| still hides warnings.
|
| I have read all my children "The Tiger who came to Tea" as well
| as taken them to theatre performances- and the author ran from
| Germany hours before the Gestapo came knocking and it affected
| much of her life and writing ("Hitler Stole Pink Rabbit" is the
| autobiography I think)
|
| So yeah. It's got layers onion boy, layers.
|
| Still have fond memories of my kid hugging a six foot moomin in
| Covent Garden.
| logifail wrote:
| "Kerr, however, stated more than once that the tiger represents
| nothing more than a tiger, and had no relevance to her
| upbringing"[0]
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tiger_Who_Came_to_Tea
| hanslub42 wrote:
| Janson created more than just the Moomin stories. Check out her
| murals: https://tovejansson.com/gallery/murals/. I don't see much
| darkness there... (there is even a small Mumintroll in "Party in
| the City", in front of the woman smoking a cigarette, a self-
| portrait of Janson)
| initramfs wrote:
| excellent. like Hobbits' Bag End turned upside down
| npteljes wrote:
| It's a good read, thanks for sharing. Really sad that people
| would pester the author about the creation. It needs to be
| realized that the author is just another complex human being,
| even though they created their fantastic thing. As I experience
| it takes a lot to think about other people as so complex. We much
| rather like them as just simple characters.
|
| Another thing is that for long-running franchises, it's really
| interesting to watch the progression of character design. Both
| visually and characteristically. The first Moomins look really
| weird, but fun, compared to the later iterations. Because, of
| course, the context also changed a lot around them - in real
| life, not in-universe.
| helsinkiandrew wrote:
| Who will comfort Toffle is a very moving book about loneliness
|
| https://www.moomin.com/en/blog/who-will-comfort-toffle-backs...
|
| > But when he tries to write about how lonely he has been, About
| his house and Hemulen, the smooth white shell he's seen,
|
| > The Groke, the night he sailed the sea, he finds no words will
| come. He is too shy to write his tale. Poor Toffle is struck
| dumb.
|
| > So Who Will Comfort Toffle now? Will someone lend a hand And
| help him write to Miffle so that she can understand?
| tejas911 wrote:
| It's striking how Jansson's cozy Moomin universe is layered with
| existential dread and the realities of a war-torn era.
| hiAndrewQuinn wrote:
| There is a fascinating throughline between the themes of Moomin
| universe and Adventure Time I've been waiting to see someone
| much more familiar than me with both sources spool out into a 3
| hour long YouTube video I can set on in the background.
| account-5 wrote:
| I never read any of the books, didn't actually know they were
| originally a book. I grew up with the TV show though. Hated it.
| I've never watched TV or film for the feels. Tv and film for me
| is escapism, I don't want to be depressed or have to think. I'm
| assuming this is why I never liked the moomins.
| fsckboy wrote:
| Tove wrote them as escapist escape:
|
| (FTA)
|
| _The Moomin stories were born, Jansson wrote to her friend
| Eva, "when I was feeling sad and scared of bombs and wanted to
| get away from gloomy thoughts... I would creep into an
| unbelievable world where everything was natural and friendly -
| and possible."_
| tarvaina wrote:
| There are actually six different TV series:
|
| 1959: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Muminfamilie
|
| 1969: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moomin_(1969_TV_series)
|
| 1972: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Moomin
|
| 1977: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moomins_(TV_series)
|
| 1990: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moomin_(1990_TV_series)
|
| 2019: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moominvalley_(TV_series)
| sandgiant wrote:
| I highly recommend the 1990 Polish stop motion TV series
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moomins_(TV_series). The
| only one that, to me, captures the magic of the books.
| briandw wrote:
| I lived in Finland for a couple years. Finns, like the Moomins,
| are whimsical yet profound, like midsummer's fleeting joy before
| the long winter. They mirror Finland's love of nature and quiet
| isolation, with their cozy valley echoing the Finns forest cabins
| by a lake. The happy vibe hides struggles--tough winters, heavy
| drinking--but the Moomins' warmth reflects the Finns' wholesome
| character.
| Paianni wrote:
| Finns (or at least, the successors to tribes that assimilated
| into the modern-day Finnish nation) were exposed to
| Christianity later than most of Europe. Pre-Christian religions
| generally held a higher regard for relationships with nature,
| that might explain what you're getting at.
| raptorraver wrote:
| Don't have time to read through the whole article. But just
| wanted to point out that there are also Moomin cartoons which
| have really politically uncorrect stories: like Moomins
| travelling to spain, trying to buy opium but eating some weird
| drugs instead and then staring for sea for a week and missing
| their fligth back.
| biorach wrote:
| To be fair, that's an uncannily accurate prediction of many
| visitors' experiences when visiting Ibiza
| anthk wrote:
| For Spaniards, Ibiza was and it's seen as a place for
| electronic music, posh-background hippies and psychodelics.
| buovjaga wrote:
| Moomins at Torrelorca:
| https://www.oocities.org/ghb17/muumit.html
|
| Relevant pages:
|
| https://www.oocities.org/ghb17/muumi/18.jpg
|
| https://www.oocities.org/ghb17/muumi/19.jpg
|
| https://www.oocities.org/ghb17/muumi/20.jpg
|
| https://www.oocities.org/ghb17/muumi/21.jpg
|
| "Waiter, four marijuanas" - they end up scoring LBJ pills
| instead as marijuana was so last season.
|
| Note that the comic is by Lars Jansson, Tove's brother.
| nabla9 wrote:
| "How can I be so thirsty when I've been drinking all night?" -
| Moomintroll (in the Cartoon)
| designerarvid wrote:
| Tove Jansson also drew political satire cartoons during WW2.
| Before Mumintrollen.
|
| https://tovejansson.com/sv/story/illustrator-barnboksforfatt...
| timonoko wrote:
| Is Tove Jansson half-Swedish or just Swedish-speaking Finn?
|
| Grok:
|
| Tove Jansson was a Swedish-speaking Finn, not half-Swedish. She
| was born in Helsinki, Finland, in 1914 to Finnish parents, Viktor
| Jansson and Signe Hammarsten-Jansson, both of whom were part of
| Finland's Swedish-speaking minority. This community, known as
| Finland-Swedes, speaks Swedish as their native language while
| being culturally and nationally Finnish. Tove's mother was born
| in Sweden but moved to Finland, which might cause confusion, but
| Tove herself identified fully as a Finnish citizen and a member
| of the Swedish-speaking Finnish community. Her works, like the
| Moomins, were originally written in Swedish, reflecting her
| linguistic and cultural background.
| etc-hosts wrote:
| I suppose you could state she was half Swedish since her mother
| was from a Swedish family from Stockholm.
| timonoko wrote:
| Tove was surely gravely insulted when somebody called her
| Swede. Especially after Winter War. Finland and Sweden had
| defense pact but Sweden choose to be neutral and promote
| peace. And so it deliberately hindered war effort preventing
| arms transport from Norway ports. Only aid was volunteers,
| which were mostly Finns living in Sweden.
| y2236li wrote:
| It's fascinating how the Moomins' appeal seems to stem from a
| comforting, albeit slightly skewed, portrayal of family dynamics
| - a familiar, albeit idealized, model. While I appreciate the
| insightful analysis of the misinterpretations, I'm more drawn to
| the sheer whimsicalness and resilience of the stories themselves,
| rather than a bleak, pessimistic view of domestic life. It's a
| brilliant observation to connect the Moomins' narrative to
| broader themes of longing and escape, a quality I find deeply
| compelling.
| y2236li wrote:
| That's a really interesting take on the Moomins. I agree that the
| misinterpretations of their tales are fascinating - it highlights
| how stories can be shaped by our own perspectives. I especially
| appreciate how you highlight the resilience of the family
| dynamic, even with its dysfunction. It's a thoughtful and
| somewhat melancholic, yet captivating, perspective, and I can see
| how that resonates with you.
| Unearned5161 wrote:
| website causes full page malware ad with the "your phone has a
| virus" pop-up if opened on ad-blockless browser
| danslaboudoir wrote:
| The introduction of The Groke absolutely terrified me when I was
| younger. I put it up there with the Xenomorph in terms of a
| mysterious, capable, superior foe.
| hiAndrewQuinn wrote:
| My favorite piece of Moomin lore is that the very first proto-
| Moomin sketch was a caricature of Immanuel Kant Tove made to
| tease her sister, who was a big fan of that guy.
| buovjaga wrote:
| I read that same story a long time ago, but apparently it had
| things mixed up and this is the way it actually went down:
| https://www.moomin.com/en/blog/the-story-of-moomintrolls/
|
| "On a summer day, she was discussing literary philosophy with
| her brother Per Olov Jansson next to the outhouse at their
| summer cottage in the archipelago. Tove quoted Immanuel Kant,
| who Per Olov immediately downplayed. To get back at her
| brother, Tove drew the ugliest creature she could imagine on
| the outhouse wall. That drawing, out of chance, is the first
| glimpse of a Moomin-like figure, although Tove called it a
| Snork."
| culebron21 wrote:
| Question to Swedes: what were you child impressions of "Pettson
| och Findus"? I read it to children as an adult, and impressions
| are that it tells of the funny & sad sides of taking care of
| children, and I sympathize to Pettson, of course. I wonder how
| you saw it as children.
|
| On topic: interesting read. I'd never think these stories had so
| much dark side to them.
|
| I got all 9 stories in 3 books at the age of 11 and read most of
| them, and was very happy with the stories, never noticing any of
| the dread the article speaks about.
|
| Especially the Midwinter story was fascinating - we lived not
| that North, but in cold winter mid-continent, and the story was
| like looking out watching for the first signs of the spring, that
| eventually always comes, but you shouldn't celebrate any of those
| too early -- when day temperature comes above 0 in March, you
| know it's going to be freezing in the evening. (Later I was
| stunned with foreigners in our city complain of this March
| weather, call it "winter" and be depressed!)
|
| A few years ago someone on social networks posted her impressions
| from reading them out loud to children -- that indeed it's
| depressive.
|
| So I guess, the conclusion is that people make opposite meanings
| and moods of the same events.
| impossiblefork wrote:
| I liked Pettson because he's awesome and invents things. I
| think he's like a physical version of the guy who writes a
| bunch scripts that together are able to do all his work.
|
| Findus is more of experimenter. He comes up with an idea about
| something, and ends up following that idea so that it gets
| tested. He isn't a systematic, scientific experimenter though,
| since he's a cat.
|
| I also liked all the little animals. To contrast that with the
| Moomin stories, I only saw it on TV, but it was immediately
| obvious that they were very austere and very Finnish, even
| though of course, the author is a Finland-Swede. It's good
| stuff, but can be, not scary, but something adjacent, to watch
| as a child. It might be worth it since it allows you to
| understand these characters in this very austere, isolated
| environment.
| sibeliuss wrote:
| Just got done reading Moominpapa's Memoirs to my kid! Great book.
| brador wrote:
| Significant number of lost episodes of MOOMINS. Was around 20
| episodes never found last time I checked.
|
| It used to be even more but someone from Japan found a few.
|
| And the creator refuses to talk about some of the lost episodes.
| fuzzy_biscuit wrote:
| When I get manipulative ads right off the bat after rejecting
| cookies, I bounce. A shame as I was curious about the actual
| content.
| stevage wrote:
| I had no idea it was such a large enterprise. I'm in Australia,
| and read one of the books as a kid. But other than that, I don't
| think I ever encountered any form of them, or even really heard
| anyone mention them, until the recent movie adaptation.
| 47282847 wrote:
| I think it is crucial that children get exposure to the sad
| reality, not in order to normalize it but because the idea of
| hiding it is what stops progress in the first place and confuses
| children more than the plain truth. Children need truth and not
| shielding from it. Highly recommended book around this
| fundamental mistake in education by a French child psychologist:
| The child that wanted to be a cat (Caroline Eliacheff).
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