[HN Gopher] Thomas Rattigan, short-lived Commodore CEO
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       Thomas Rattigan, short-lived Commodore CEO
        
       Author : rbanffy
       Score  : 69 points
       Date   : 2025-04-03 12:34 UTC (4 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (dfarq.homeip.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (dfarq.homeip.net)
        
       | timbit42 wrote:
       | Although Rattigan was only at Commodore for a year, his creation
       | of the Amiga 500 and 2000 extended the life of Commodore by many
       | years with sales of the Amiga 500 making up more than half of all
       | Amigas sold.
        
         | amichail wrote:
         | AmigaOS was too complicated for hobby programming though.
        
           | nradov wrote:
           | Huh? Amiga probably had a higher proportion of hobby
           | programmers than any other platform at the time.
        
             | amichail wrote:
             | Coding GUI apps was a nightmare.
        
               | mrandish wrote:
               | Sure but at least it shipped with an OS that had a GUI
               | and multitasking in an era when the vast majority of
               | personal computers had neither. Let's not forget how
               | early this was. Any personal computer that shipped with a
               | GUI OS at the time shipped it in a state that wasn't yet
               | fully realized or completely documented. Everyone was
               | still figuring out what a GUI OS should be. It wasn't
               | until years later when Unix-based workstation OSes
               | migrated down to consumer desktops that things started
               | stabilizing. Before that we were pioneers roughing it on
               | the frontier.
               | 
               | I had an Amiga 1000 and did hobby programming on it
               | starting in 85. At the time everything friends and I
               | wrote only used the OS to open a custom screen because
               | all the fun was experimenting with graphics. Most of the
               | apps for the first couple years either used the CLI or
               | just put up a window with a few drop downs and otherwise
               | rendered their own UX inside it.
        
               | amichail wrote:
               | I think I would have been better off with a PC, Turbo
               | Pascal, and no GUI programming to distract me from more
               | interesting hobby coding.
        
               | rbanffy wrote:
               | > Any personal computer that shipped with a GUI OS at the
               | time shipped it in a state that wasn't yet fully realized
               | or completely documented
               | 
               | You are forgetting Apple. By the time the Amiga was
               | introduced it was pointing the way GUIs were going for
               | the next decade. The one thing it didn't have was
               | multitasking, which came in 87 with Multifinder.
               | 
               | The Amiga was more powerful and I wish it had an OS based
               | on Coherent, which was scheduled for the CBM 900, rather
               | than what ended up being AmigaOS.
        
               | rbanffy wrote:
               | Writing GUI apps on using base OS interfaces on anything
               | was a nightmare. Still is.
               | 
               | What made it nicer was having IDEs with GUI designers.
               | Smalltalk existed, but it was a world unto itself and was
               | not meant to write native-looking applications.
        
               | igouy wrote:
               | > Smalltalk existed, but it was a world unto itself and
               | was not meant to write native-looking applications.
               | 
               | Huh?
               | 
               | There have been Smalltalk language implementations based
               | on MS Win controls (as-if they were MS VB programs).
               | 
               | http://www.object-arts.com/dolphin7.html
               | 
               | Also Digitalk Smalltalk for MS Win and OS/2. Also IBM
               | Smalltalk.                   ~
               | 
               | There have been Smalltalk language implementations that
               | _emulated_ native widget Look  & Feel (various MS Win,
               | OS/2, Motif/CDE, MacOS). Obviously putting a lot of
               | effort into providing "native-looking" applications.
               | 
               | Common-place to copy a Smalltalk app from a Mac to a MS
               | Win PC and switch the emulation from MacOS to MSWin.
        
             | os2warpman wrote:
             | I became an Amiga user starting in the mid-1980s and my
             | recollection was that even by the time of the introduction
             | of the 500 and 2000 (my Amiga 2000 is still sitting
             | downstairs in the basement on a shelf next to my 1000)
             | Amiga was already well behind the PC and Macintosh in terms
             | of users by the mid-to-late 80s.
             | 
             | It was a hobby programmer's platform because it had become
             | a hobby. Like the Saab of computers (I also owned a Saab).
             | 
             | Somewhere to play games and write demos in the evening
             | after having spent all day at work in MPW or Turbo Pascal.
             | 
             | It is impossible to know, due to obfuscation and (honestly)
             | lying, how many Amigas were ever sold but it was somewhere
             | between 3-7 million in total for all models worldwide from
             | birth to death.
             | 
             | Ahoy tried to figure it out- Nobody Knows How Many Amigas
             | Commodore Sold: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXCWYKSjHnI
             | 
             | The Amiga's adoring fans were/are extremely vocal, but
             | comparatively few in numbers.
             | 
             | Users often also had to become hobby programmers because
             | the market was so small and they had to write their own
             | programs to implement software that was unavailable on the
             | platform- this was the case with me.
             | 
             | In the US, at least. Europe, Germany in particular, was
             | probably a different story.
             | 
             | I imagine BeOS (Damn, I'm a winner in picking niche OSes)
             | had the highest ever percentage of hobby programmers
             | because EVERYBODY other than GoBe was a hobbyist on that
             | platform.
        
               | sillywalk wrote:
               | > EVERYBODY other than GoBe was a hobbyist on that
               | platform.
               | 
               | Actually, there is one company still around called Tune
               | Tracker Systems[0]. They make radio-automation software,
               | starting out on BeOS and are now on Haiku.
               | 
               | [0] https://www.tunetrackersystems.com
        
               | compsciphd wrote:
               | 3-7 million is somewhat proportional to the # of TI 99/4a
               | (my first computer) which sold 2.5Million or so, but many
               | of those were probably on the fire sale, and at least
               | some of them probably went to backup parts for people
               | that already had it. While the 99/4a is remembered
               | somewhat fondly by those who had it (speech synthesizer,
               | expansion modules for p-code, forth and others), it
               | wasn't a system that had a huge amount of development
               | done for it, and died a pretty quick death.
        
           | appstorelottery wrote:
           | AMOS filled that gap.
        
         | TheAmazingRace wrote:
         | Irving Gould really did Rattigan dirty for no good reason. Big
         | egos really can bring a company down.
         | 
         | Steve Jobs also had a massive ego, but somehow managed to use
         | it to bolster Apple in their hour of need.
        
           | ChuckMcM wrote:
           | Yup. If you had to point to the singular "bad guy" at
           | Commodore, it was Irving. I interviewed with him when I was
           | interviewing to be the CTO and recognized pretty quickly that
           | he was the kind of executive that didn't like people who
           | worked for him to be more competent than he was. Had a great
           | discussion with a 4 star general who was friends with my Dad
           | about people like that.
        
             | rhet0rica wrote:
             | That sounds genuinely fascinating. Can you post more about
             | your experience meeting Gould?
        
               | ChuckMcM wrote:
               | Pretty standard stuff, a bit about my background, what I
               | thought of Commodore and the people I had met so far, If
               | I could change one thing at Commodore what would it be (I
               | responded with my belief that the Amiga was the future of
               | Commodore and some stuff about "workstation for the
               | masses", I was at Sun at the time). What was memorable to
               | me wasn't so much what he asked or we talked about as it
               | was about his body language when I expressed approval or
               | how impressed I was by things others on his staff had
               | done. You would expect "pride" but I got "irritation?" I
               | had very little experience dealing with people like that
               | and it was confusing. Later research and observations led
               | me to believe he was irritated by people that excelled.
        
               | TheAmazingRace wrote:
               | This is quite a neat story. Thanks for sharing!
               | 
               | I also heard that Bobby Kotick of Activision infamy was
               | planning to buy Commodore back in the early 90s, only to
               | be rebuffed by Irving and Co.
               | 
               | Although I'm not a personal fan of Bobby, I'm sure his
               | leadership would have been a sorry sight better than the
               | dumpster fire at Commodore back then.
        
         | rob74 wrote:
         | That might be true, but creating the Amiga 500 and 2000 was
         | also a no-brainer: the original Amiga (later retconned to
         | A1000) had a detachable keyboard (= expensive), but limited
         | expansion capabilities, so launching two new models, a cheaper
         | all-in-one design and a more expensive version with detachable
         | keyboard and a larger case with more expansion capabilities was
         | pretty obviously the way to go.
         | 
         | What all the Commodore CEOs unfortunately failed to do was
         | invest adequately into R&D to keep the Amiga competitive.
         | Instead, they treated the existing lineup as a cash cow for far
         | too long. The new models which hit the market from 1990 onwards
         | were too little too late and couldn't fend off the eventual
         | insolvency...
        
       | foobahify wrote:
       | Interesting. Being good at their job can be your downfall in the
       | corp world! He'd have been better as a private equity tycoon who
       | would have had proper control.
        
       | AStonesThrow wrote:
       | You know, I decided which Catholic high school to attend after I
       | put my fingers on the keyboards of their brand-new C64 machines.
       | [The other Catholic school only had PET systems at the time.]
       | 
       | I learned how to type there, and the rest was history. I owned a
       | VIC20 already, and Dad purchased peripherals such as the 1541 and
       | the 1701.
       | 
       | It wasn't until 3-4 years ago when I began to study history,
       | Irish history in particular, and recognized that the model
       | numbers weren't chosen arbitrarily or accidentally, but indeed
       | they correlated perfectly to the most ignominious dates in the
       | history of the UK, when anti-Catholic laws were passed and the
       | Irish were stomped into submission.
       | 
       | It makes weird sense in retrospect. I mean, nobody ever taught
       | Irish history in school because we are Americans now, and the
       | whole Reformation thing is water under the bridge. And the
       | superior general has a distinctly posh RP accent.
       | 
       | Much like the "bitten apple" and its rainbow colors and the $666
       | price tag, these signs and symbols were hidden in plain sight, as
       | harbingers and warning signs of future troubles. We were all
       | working for the construction crew on a modern Tower of Babel.
       | Literally.
        
       | rob74 wrote:
       | > _The corporate drama has led to some speculation that Irving
       | Gould was running Commodore as a stock scam, but I think that's
       | an oversimplification._
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor probably applies
       | here as well...
        
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       (page generated 2025-04-07 23:02 UTC)