[HN Gopher] Photons, neutrinos, and gravitational-wave astronomy
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       Photons, neutrinos, and gravitational-wave astronomy
        
       Author : ninocan
       Score  : 44 points
       Date   : 2025-04-03 04:00 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.as.arizona.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.as.arizona.edu)
        
       | MeteorMarc wrote:
       | Figure 3 is really nice!
        
       | perihelions wrote:
       | _" Made with Emacs 28.1 - Org mode 9.5.2"_
        
       | joshvm wrote:
       | Unless I'm missing something - do the notes cover neutrino
       | astronomy somewhere else? Aside from the general discussion on
       | stellar evolution. Shame, because the detection of pre-optical
       | neutrino emission from 1987A by Kamiokande (and others) was a
       | fantastic theoretical confirmation. Essentially when the core
       | collapses, the environment around the surroundings are optically
       | opaque, but the neutrinos sail on through so you'd expect to see
       | them before the photons.
       | 
       | https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1987ApJ...318L..63B/abstra...
       | 
       | I would recommend Telescope in the Ice as one of the best
       | introductions to modern neutrino detectors - why and where
       | they're built. Also provides a good insight into how a big
       | collaboration is formed, funded and operates. I've worked for
       | IceCube so I'm somewhat biased, but the book is great just for
       | the history.
       | 
       | IceCube has an entire processing pathway (on ice) that is
       | specifically designed to trigger on a supernova detection. One of
       | the very few science results that would page us, and why uptime
       | is absolutely critical to the experiment. On the one hand, we
       | can't point the detector and we don't know where the signal will
       | come from, so it's not predictable (and it's highly transient).
       | On the other, becuase the burst happens shortly before the
       | optical, we can use neutrinos to trigger optical observations as
       | fast as possible - pretty much the whole observing community will
       | drop what they're doing if a star blows up.
       | 
       | I believe we'd expect the whole flux through the detector to bump
       | up above the background, at least at IceCube. PDF:
       | https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1742-6596/309/1/0...
        
         | pfdietz wrote:
         | > Essentially when the core collapses, the environment around
         | the surroundings are optically opaque, but the neutrinos sail
         | on through so you'd expect to see them before the photons.
         | 
         | Also, the source, the hot nascent neutron star, is optically
         | thick to neutrinos, so it radiates them very fiercely. Almost
         | all the energy of the collapse goes into neutrino radiation.
        
         | mathren wrote:
         | These are my notes for a course in stellar physics that I am
         | teaching, the full set of lecture notes is here
         | https://www.as.arizona.edu/~mrenzo/courses/lectures.html and
         | includes some more on neutrino cooling in evolved stars, core
         | collapse physics, and a guest lecture (also with notes that I
         | am NOT the author of) on high energy neutrinos, but if you want
         | to learn specifically about neutrino astrophysics this is
         | certainly not the most comprehensive resource.
         | 
         | Re neutrinos, I would also mention KM3NET which looks for
         | Cherenkov flashes in the Mediterranean sea used as a detector,
         | which recently detected some extremely high energy neutrinos,
         | e.g.:
         | 
         | https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-08543-1
        
       | throwawaymaths wrote:
       | After so many observations why is multi messenger still n=1?
        
         | magicalhippo wrote:
         | Hopefully an expert can chime in, but from what I've gathered
         | we were fairly lucky to catch that one.
         | 
         | First off, it needs to happen when enough detectors are
         | operational to get a good localization. Back then there were
         | just three and all happened to be operational during the event.
         | Just two won't cut it, as you can see from this[1] using just
         | LIGO data versus this[2] which also includes VIRGO data for
         | GW170817[3].
         | 
         | Next the detectors have a limited mass window they're sensitive
         | to, with low frequencies (high mass) limited by seismic
         | isolation and high frequencies (low mass) due to quantum
         | effects. And the noise floor at peak sensitivity limits the
         | maximum range to the objects.
         | 
         | Current sensitivity means we're at the edge of the binary-
         | neutron star population, so we wouldn't expect to see many of
         | those.
         | 
         | With more detectors coming online soon and existing ones
         | getting further upgraded, presumably it'll not be such a rare
         | event in the future.
         | 
         | A nice recent talk which touches on this was given at PIRSA
         | here[4].
         | 
         | [1]:
         | https://dcc.ligo.org/public/0146/G1701985/001/bayestar_no_vi...
         | 
         | [2]: https://dcc.ligo.org/public/0146/G1701985/001/bayestar.png
         | 
         | [3]: https://dcc.ligo.org/LIGO-P170817/public
         | 
         | [4]: https://pirsa.org/25030061
        
       | mathren wrote:
       | Author here: this are my notes on what I mean to say in class,
       | the website contain my whole course.
       | 
       | This particular lecture is still "in prep", in fact the section
       | "the problem" is just a bullet point and a figure. All other
       | lectures are a bit more polished.
        
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