[HN Gopher] Loader's Number
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       Loader's Number
        
       Author : lisper
       Score  : 52 points
       Date   : 2025-04-05 16:18 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (googology.fandom.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (googology.fandom.com)
        
       | tromp wrote:
       | Last year I ported Loader's construction to Haskell [2] in order
       | to better understand it, and managed to shrink the code down to
       | under 232 bytes [1]. That work was also featured in a video that
       | youtuber CodeParade made about the Quest To Find The Largest
       | Number and its followup [3].
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://github.com/tromp/AIT/blob/master/fast_growing_and_co...
       | 
       | [2] https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/176966/golf-
       | a-n...
       | 
       | [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQLcoSuMKHg&t=10s
        
         | rvnx wrote:
         | In that thread, I see for example, another challenge linked on
         | that page:
         | 
         | > Write the shortest possible program (length measured in
         | bytes) satisfying the following requirements:
         | 
         | > infinite memory and runtime
         | 
         | > no input
         | 
         | > output is to stdout
         | 
         | > execution eventually terminates
         | 
         | > total number of output bytes exceeds Graham's number
         | 
         | This sounds like a loop and that's it ?
         | 
         | I'm struggling to see the challenge or discovery there ?
        
           | zimpenfish wrote:
           | Given (from what I remember from Numberphile) you can't write
           | Graham's number down in the observable universe, how are you
           | going to make sure that the loop terminates after outputting
           | Graham's number of bytes? Because you definitely can't put
           | `if count > G` in there...
        
             | rvnx wrote:
             | Ok, that makes it much more interesting, I get it now. It's
             | the "execution eventually terminates" that is tricky. Thank
             | you!
        
           | knome wrote:
           | >it is so large that the observable universe is far too small
           | to contain an ordinary digital representation of Graham's
           | number, assuming that each digit occupies one Planck volume,
           | possibly the smallest measurable space. But even the number
           | of digits in this digital representation of Graham's number
           | would itself be a number so large that its digital
           | representation cannot be represented in the observable
           | universe. Nor even can the number of digits of that number--
           | and so forth, for a number of times far exceeding the total
           | number of Planck volumes in the observable universe
           | 
           | How do you write the halt condition for your loop in the
           | minimal number of bytes?
        
           | tromp wrote:
           | Amazingly, this can be done in literally a bit over 6 bytes,
           | shorter than an empty for-loop in many languages...
        
             | HumanOstrich wrote:
             | Can you provide any examples?
        
               | HeliumHydride wrote:
               | https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/263884/
        
           | throwaway81523 wrote:
           | > This sounds like a loop and that's it ?
           | 
           | No, the execution is required to eventually terminate. The
           | challenge is to find the shortest possible program that
           | generates at least G bytes of output and then stops, where G
           | is Graham's (extremely large) number. This is sort of like
           | the Busy Beaver problem.
        
             | tromp wrote:
             | Both Graham's Number and Loader's Number appear as lower
             | bounds in the functional Busy Beaver at
             | https://oeis.org/A333479
        
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       (page generated 2025-04-05 23:00 UTC)