[HN Gopher] The blissful Zen of a good side project
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The blissful Zen of a good side project
        
       Author : ingve
       Score  : 492 points
       Date   : 2025-04-04 20:37 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (joshcollinsworth.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (joshcollinsworth.com)
        
       | candiddevmike wrote:
       | I feel this in my bones. Side projects are so cathartic and saved
       | my sanity at $DAYJOB. I don't care that I can't implement things
       | the way I want, or how everything is spaghetti, or how much tech
       | debt has piled up, my side projects is a blissful world that I
       | invented. It gives me the "I am Jack's crap codebase" fight club
       | zen at work.
        
         | bashmelek wrote:
         | Yeah. There is something about carving out the image of your
         | own mind and getting absorbed deep inside it. I will write from
         | scratch much more than I need if it strikes me, break whatever
         | rule I want, give names that only make sense to me. It is a
         | sanctuary
        
           | Shorn wrote:
           | You can tell my engagement level with my job by the commit
           | frequency on my side-project.
           | 
           | If I'm deeply engaged at work, I don't have many spare cycles
           | out of hours and there's little happening - library updates
           | and small fiddling.
           | 
           | Otherwise - it's full steam ahead on projects that I somehow
           | magically find the time for.
           | 
           | I don't work on my stuff during work hours - disengagement
           | from work results in more energy and motivation to do stuff
           | out of hours.
           | 
           | Weirdly, I think this actually benefits those boring
           | workplaces too. If I'm scratching the itch with what I'm
           | doing on my side-project - it means I'm less likely to invent
           | interesting new ways to over-complicate things at work.
        
       | cheschire wrote:
       | My latest side project started a couple weeks ago when I received
       | an email from Cox that they would be forcing an unmanageable wifi
       | network onto my router so that their cell customers would get
       | more wifi coverage or something.
       | 
       | So I ordered a DOCSIS 3.1 modem off amazon, then went and
       | rummaged around in my storage box for an old 2013 macbook air,
       | installed ubuntu server on it, and finally learned how to setup a
       | home router with DHCP, DNS, NAT, firewall, etc. Pihole was a lot
       | of that, and I installed it as a docker container so that was a
       | fun thing to learn to manage as well.
       | 
       | As an aside, ChatGPT made most of this possible. I have used *nix
       | off and on for 25 years but haven't done serious system
       | administration in at least 15 years. ChatGPT is definitely the
       | crutch I needed to get off my ass and do more side projects.
        
         | pitched wrote:
         | As much as vibe coding is obviously ridiculous, using it as a
         | crutch purposefully in this way is amazing. I heard someone
         | call it a tool for energy management once and I feel that
        
           | cheschire wrote:
           | Thanks! Yeah another side project I used was once I got home
           | assistant running I used ChatGPT to write a lot of ESP32 code
           | for me to get some soil moisture sensors working for my
           | outdoor garden. It also gave me a lot of input on the wiring
           | up of the sensor and ESP32. And it helped me with the general
           | concepts of ESP-IDF versus Arduino frameworks for ESP32,
           | getting an SSD1306 OLED screen running on it and and and...
           | 
           | So yeah, it enables my brain to just chase the inspiration
           | rabbit without getting too bogged down in infrastructure.
        
             | kevindamm wrote:
             | Shout out to all those generous souls who posted how-to's
             | and project notes for their IoT projects, so that machines
             | could learn from them.
        
               | WhyOhWhyQ wrote:
               | RIP to those generous souls
        
           | ripped_britches wrote:
           | Why would it be obviously ridiculous if it granted the parent
           | commenter so much productivity?
           | 
           | Perhaps the same obvious ridiculousness that manual agrarians
           | passed upon the tractor.
        
             | aloha2436 wrote:
             | Vibe coding is not using a chat interface to explore an
             | unfamiliar domain like GP describes, it's letting an agent
             | tool like Cursor or Goose do most of the work semi-
             | independently.
        
               | Cyphase wrote:
               | Vibe coding is not looking at the code, essentially. See
               | what Simon Willison has written about it (the original
               | term was coined[0] by Andrej Karpathy):
               | https://simonwillison.net/2025/Mar/19/vibe-coding/
               | 
               | [0] Only two months ago!
        
       | nidnogg wrote:
       | I've been wrestling with this for a good long while as well. A
       | lot of business-y, corporate weight on my shoulders from $DAYJOB
       | piling up and feeling out of touch with code at times.
       | 
       | I'm glad I still manage to have moments like OP every now and
       | then
        
       | Willingham wrote:
       | -Written by human, not AI
       | 
       | Love that you added this to the footer on your website. Goodbye
       | 'organic' and 'non-GMO' and hello 'AI-Free' XD
        
         | Cyphase wrote:
         | That badge is from Not By AI: https://notbyai.fyi/about
        
         | philsnow wrote:
         | A million years ago (in the age of "made in Dreamweaver" badges
         | on web sites) I had a dumb little ball-and-stick image of
         | adenosine triphosphate and I made a dumb little "made with ATP"
         | badge, because I typed out html with plain-vanilla vim.
        
       | indemnity wrote:
       | My day job is soul destroying chasing down JIRA tickets, hours
       | long cross time zone coordination calls, tedious documentation
       | writing, and 10% of the time, if I'm lucky, a little bit of code.
       | It affords my family a great lifestyle, but to preserve my
       | sanity, I have to have little side projects. In the last three
       | months I have: - Built a beastly water cooled SFF (small form
       | factor) desktop PC in the FormD T1 case (9950X3D, RTX 4090).
       | 
       | - Really went hard into learning NixOS and nix to manage my
       | environments across nixOS servers and Linux/Windows/macOS
       | development machines
       | 
       | - Built a personal project to replace my usage of healthchecks.io
       | with my own single executable Rust API server with embedded admin
       | UI (learning React/Vite)
       | 
       | - Completely rebuilt my home network from scratch, redoing
       | wiring, improving WiFi coverage with new APs, maxing out home
       | network performance
       | 
       | - Switched to zed.dev with embedded Claude 3.5 Sonnet to speed up
       | my learning and get me unblocked when working on something
       | unfamiliar The freedom to over engineer the shit out of
       | something, is the outlet I need to be calm about having to
       | compromise a lot in my day job!
        
         | esperent wrote:
         | > Built a beastly water cooled SFF (small form factor) desktop
         | PC in the FormD T1 case (9950X3D, RTX 4090)
         | 
         | I've only got as far as watching videos and daydreaming but
         | whenever I need to replace my current setup I plan to build a
         | SFF PC. I've had my eye on exactly this case for a while.
         | 
         | How did the build go? Was it difficult? And how are the
         | temperatures for the 4090? Can you run it at full power?
        
           | indemnity wrote:
           | Final assembly was recent, but it took months of planning and
           | research, mainly around being sure the components would fit
           | in the tight tolerances of the FormD 2.1 9.95L case.
           | 
           | I wouldn't say it was difficult per-se, but it did have its
           | challenges in understanding which pieces go where and what
           | screws/standoffs to use where, since you build from the
           | ground up, and for the 4090 I used, have to build it up
           | _around_ the GPU. For the first build, it took me probably a
           | full day, but now I can strip and rebuild it in around an
           | hour or two.
           | 
           | Also, the case - I had my heart set on the 2.1 case not the
           | 2.5, since the 2.1 was a labor of love from the OG designer -
           | It took freaking months to get my hands on the Titanium +
           | Black version. My recommendation would be to favorite it on
           | the Shopify store, and hit order the second you get the back
           | in stock notification, they sell out in an hour or two.
           | 
           | I still screwed up my planning and had to get my custom
           | cables remade to be shorter to give me more space, and had to
           | deshroud my GPU to make it fit at the same time as the I/O
           | headers.
           | 
           | I ordered both an air cooler and the AIO I now use, and tried
           | both, in the end, I went for the AIO (accepting the higher
           | GPU temps due to the radiator at the top), because I don't
           | game as much and I want the 9950X3D to not throttle when
           | doing Rust builds and other things that peg all cores at 100,
           | and I didn't want to undervolt.
           | 
           | I can run the 4090 at full power, the PSU I have does
           | amazingly well (Corsair SF750 SFX). However, I am switching
           | it out for an SF1000 SFX soon, to give it a little more
           | headroom, if I max out the CPU (170W TDP) and GPU (450W TDP),
           | along with the other components, I am approaching the limits
           | of the SF750, and it definitely couldn't handle a 5090 (a
           | future project!).
           | 
           | Temperature wise, the 4090 maxes out at 60-70C for the games
           | I play, and the CPU maxes out at around 80C for all-core
           | workloads, idling at around 50C.
           | 
           | Not as good as a big ass desktop, but I came from a big ass
           | desktop and I love this tiny dense powerhouse that is 6x
           | smaller than my Fractal North XL predecessor :)
           | 
           | Photo (Logitech MX Master mouse for scale):
           | https://imgur.com/a/lcS98IE
           | 
           | Best resources for this was the /r/FormD and /r/sffpc
           | subreddits and Discord.
           | 
           | Parts list:
           | 
           | - CPU: AMD 9950X3D (originally a spare 7800X3D, 9950X3D was a
           | recent swap-out)
           | 
           | - GPU: MSI Ventus 3X RTX 4090
           | 
           | - Motherboard: ASUS ROG X870-I (originally X670E-I)
           | 
           | - Memory: G-Skill Trident Z CL30 DDR6000 32GB (x2)
           | 
           | - SSD: Samsung 990 Pro 2TB (x2)
           | 
           | - PSU: Corsair SF750
           | 
           | - Cooling Option 1 (not used): Thermalright AXP90-X47 (Full
           | Copper)
           | 
           | - Cooling Option 2: CoolerMaster Atmos 240 AIO
           | 
           | - Custom cabling: Ordered from DreambigbyRayMOD on Etsy
           | 
           | - GPU deshrouding kit: Ordered from Osserva on Etsy
           | 
           | - Fans: All Noctua for quieter noise profiles
           | 
           | - Case: FormD T1 2.1 Titanium + CNC machined black side
           | panels
        
             | esperent wrote:
             | Thank you for sharing, I'm gonna save this comment and come
             | back to it. I'm in Vietnam and chose this case partly
             | because it seems resellers do have it in stock here. It's
             | all the other stuff - custom risers and cables - I'm
             | worried about.
             | 
             | I'm gonna target a 4080/5080 - stuck with Nvidia because
             | CUDA - which gives me a lot more wiggle room with the power
             | supply.
             | 
             | I've built plenty of PCs, including a few SFF PCs without
             | GPUs, but never something requiring this kind of
             | customization so I'm planning to find a detailed build
             | online and mostly copy what the other person did, if
             | possible.
        
               | indemnity wrote:
               | If you go for the 4080 or 5080, you will have a lot more
               | options for sure. If you can find one, I would try get a
               | 2/2.5 slot wide card, gives you so much more flexibility.
               | 
               | Bookmark this Excel, saves you a lot of time looking up
               | specs: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AddRvGWJ_f
               | 4B6UC7_Ift...
               | 
               | You want a GPU no longer than 325mm (though exactly 325mm
               | may be pushing it).
               | 
               | For the 4090 it was basically Founder's Edition or my
               | card. FE was impossible to source (I am not in the USA),
               | and I had to get the MSI card specially ordered in, the
               | most common card was the ASUS ROG monster which at 357mm
               | would never fit.
               | 
               | At 322mm, the MSI card barely fits (after deshrouding),
               | there is like 2-3mm to spare length-wise. And you have to
               | build in 3 slot mode if you want any clearance from the
               | PSU (mount PSU on standoffs).
               | 
               | Before deshrouding, the GPU plastic covers mean you can't
               | also plug in the USB-C I/O port.
               | 
               | Oh yeah, forgot about the riser cable.
               | 
               | The one that comes with the FormD case is serviceable,
               | but depending on the motherboard. I believe it has issues
               | with Gigabyte B760 and B650 motherboards.
               | 
               | I also have the LinkUp 19mm PCIe 5.0 V2 riser cable
               | (https://linkup.one/linkup-ava5-pcie-5-0-riser-cable-
               | future-p...), but it can only be used in air-cooled
               | builds - it has a red tab at the top which blocks the
               | radiator if you want to use it with watercooled/AIOs. See
               | this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/sffpc/comments/1f5i
               | j02/question_re_.... Some brave souls have hacked off the
               | tab with a knife/scissors but you have to be careful not
               | to cut the wires along with it :)
               | 
               | So I had to go back to the stock cable for the AIO flavor
               | build, which has other issues (you have to fold it/squash
               | it a bit at the bottom where it bends around below the
               | motherboard, so that pressure on it doesn't cause it to
               | make it pop out of the motherboard connector). Before you
               | put on the bottom cover with the feet on it, the riser
               | will touch the surface of whatever you are building on,
               | and given enough time can cause the motherboard connector
               | to loosen or pop out.
               | 
               | Had hours of debugging fun trying to figure out why it
               | was starting to lock up while gaming, turned out to be
               | the riser having wiggled loose from the motherboard.
        
         | chrisweekly wrote:
         | Whoa. All that since Jan 1? Inspiring!
        
           | indemnity wrote:
           | The PC build took months of planning, but yeah, I've been on
           | a tear since the December break!
        
       | sadcodemonkey wrote:
       | I love this.
       | 
       | My most satisfying side projects are often not necessarily my
       | "best" work, in terms of code cleanliness, best practices,
       | efficiency, etc. They're ones where I had a particular creative
       | itch I wanted to scratch. Is this kind of solution possible? What
       | would a certain unusual approach to a problem look like? How can
       | I use this algorithm or library in this situation where it
       | doesn't quite fit, as an experiment?
       | 
       | Projects with extremely loose parameters and no particular "skill
       | acquisition" goals are great ways to grow in ways you didn't
       | anticipate. Which is one way to think about artistic creation, I
       | think: non-goal oriented growth.
        
         | condensedcrab wrote:
         | I agree with that last bit - sometimes you gotta drop the time
         | associated with polish of a finished product and play around.
         | 
         | Always stuck with me that pretty much every famous piece of art
         | has a long backlog of practice to get to that point.
        
       | annjose wrote:
       | This! I love the pure joy of picking both the destination and the
       | path. No pressure, no goal -- just the joy of building for its
       | own sake.
       | 
       | These two lines really hit home:
       | 
       | > You don't have to listen to any other voices here, except that
       | quiet one inside of you that's gently urging you to do the thing
       | you know you need to do.
       | 
       | > You don't need to know where it's going to lead. For that
       | matter, it doesn't have to lead anywhere. Nothing ever has to
       | come of it.
       | 
       | That freedom is everything. Just creating because it feels right
       | (to me).
        
       | bbkane wrote:
       | I love the freedom in a side project to write a thing, then
       | rewrite it, then decide on a new requirement and rewrite it
       | again. No deadlines, no stress, just incrementally experimenting
       | until I'm happy.
       | 
       | At work they rely on me to deliver in a reasonable time, and move
       | on to the next task. Once something is working, it generally
       | isn't changed too much, even to improve it (obviously if it's
       | really important to improve it we make time for that, but that
       | doesn't happen so often)
        
         | m463 wrote:
         | I think it's nice to be able to write something well, polished
         | and sturdy. Something better than at work. higher ideals.
         | 
         | Or, to write something that is house of cards nonsense that
         | would never fly at work but does something fun. You don't have
         | to explain. Sometimes not having to explain is the BEST.
        
           | bbkane wrote:
           | Oh absolutely, the real win is being able to play with a
           | concept with no risk
        
       | iamben wrote:
       | I feel this will resonate with a lot of us. For a lot of years I
       | very much lost the love of the web I'd had since the mid 90s.
       | 
       | A couple of years ago I was lucky enough to have the time, space
       | and money to enjoy side projects again. Music, art, coding for
       | the love of making something with no other reason than doing. I
       | stopped thinking anything had to _be_ anything - it just _was_. I
       | could do for the sake of doing and it was liberating.
       | 
       | I've been very happy about this, it's been a blessing mentally.
       | And very productive. I've enjoyed time and space, and I
       | appreciate (again!) how lucky I am to be here.
        
       | philip1209 wrote:
       | I was thinking of this with relation to the book "Man's Search
       | for Meaning", which asserts that "a personal project can be a
       | powerful tool for finding and cultivating that meaning, providing
       | purpose and resilience in the face of adversity." [1]
       | 
       | [1] summary by Gemini
        
         | saulpw wrote:
         | Thanks for citing your AI source, it's really much appreciated.
         | But having read that book, it can't be properly summarized by
         | AI.
        
           | mehphp wrote:
           | I had no idea what I was getting into with that book
        
       | bsnnkv wrote:
       | I've been putting a lot of my energy into side projects for the
       | last five years, and while I've considered them all successful
       | (i.e. they have filled a concrete need I had, and having
       | addressed that need the workflow of my life has improved
       | significantly), it's only this year that one of them has really
       | started to take off financially.
       | 
       | I started selling commercial use licenses for one of my side
       | projects in January, and in 3 months I've had more people sign up
       | for license subscriptions than I've had people sign up to be
       | sponsors on GitHub in 3 years.
       | 
       | I'm very cautiously optimistic that if I keep working at it,
       | within a year or two I might be able to have enough license
       | revenue to pick up part-time shift work somewhere that offers
       | healthcare, and then spend the rest of my time in the blissful
       | Zen of my good side project (will it still be a side project at
       | that point??)
        
       | cafeinux wrote:
       | I was just thinking about this yesterday. A few weeks or months
       | ago I started learning something new from an online course.
       | 
       | Because I like using Anki to help me remember, I started copy-
       | pasting stuff from that course to a spreadsheet to then export it
       | as a CSV to import into Anki.
       | 
       | One thing leading to another, my spreadsheet quickly ended with
       | weird formatting everywhere that would be converted through
       | macros to HTML tags to style the resulting Anki notes.
       | 
       | This was still implying much manual work, so I finally figured I
       | could just scrape the lessons for which I want notes via some
       | script, and get the resulting CSV with a simple command.
       | 
       | I'm been working on that scraper for two weeks now, and I just
       | realised yesterday that that's the most time I've spent on a side
       | project since too long to remember, and it brings me joy and
       | motivation in the evenings and weekends. Also, apart from the
       | occasional script, I haven't wrote a line of code for years, and
       | I don't know why I ever stopped coding since I love this so much.
       | And last but not least, I decided to go for Python, and I've
       | never learnt Python so it's quite a challenge but also a
       | satisfactory experience.
       | 
       | All in all, this side project is spaghetti code with a dirty
       | hacks sauce, I would never open-source it, and it's never going
       | to be useful for someone other than me.
       | 
       | But it feels like I'm dusting off my brain, and rediscovering
       | skills and passions I had long forgotten. Like finally waking
       | from a long slumber. I'm currently a bit depressed, struggle to
       | focus, and feel burnt out, but at least I am motivated by
       | something and I create something for me, and this makes all the
       | rest bearable.
        
         | lupire wrote:
         | It almost certainly would be useful for someone other than you.
         | Everything you described automating is something at least
         | thousands of people also do. And most of them don't care about
         | the code quality if it works.
        
           | cafeinux wrote:
           | I'm really not sure: it's highly specialized to scrape the
           | pages of that particular course and output it in my own HTML
           | and CSS classes. Luckily for me, their format is quite
           | standard across chapters, but may not be across courses, and
           | I didn't write the code to be modular or adaptive given my
           | need (and the fact that I'm learning Python, not application
           | design).
           | 
           | Still, the code lives in a git repo, so it's not excluded
           | that I'll make it evolve to something more generic and
           | maintainable in the future. But today, it's my own little
           | dirty code that I will jealously keep and hide like that lewd
           | drawing I did when I was a teenager.
        
         | joshdavham wrote:
         | > I decided to go for Python
         | 
         | Great choice and keep going! At my last job, we actually
         | created and sold Anki decks and I can tell you that Python was
         | the main language we used for this. In fact, it's also one of
         | the main languages used to build Anki (it's built with PyQt +
         | Rust & Svelte).
        
           | danvillalon wrote:
           | What type of job does sales of Anki decks? I never though
           | this to be have like a market, so curious to know
        
             | wahnfrieden wrote:
             | In Japanese learning, people sell premade decks for things
             | like learning kanji with mnemonics and graphics, or
             | curriculum-like decks that provide a sensible order such as
             | N+1 sentences (sentences with at most one unknown word or
             | kanji)
             | 
             | I'm also in the business of generating Anki decks, except
             | on the tools side: https://reader.manabi.io is growing in
             | popularity for Japanese sentence mining for Anki on iOS &
             | macOS
             | 
             | My project began as a "blissful" side project and is now my
             | full-time occupation.
        
               | joshdavham wrote:
               | Ah I didn't realize you also had a macOS app out! Also
               | cool to see you're on HN! I honestly love the niche that
               | we're in.
        
               | wahnfrieden wrote:
               | Hi! Maybe you saw my old app before I rewrote it fully in
               | SwiftUI. Yes it's a nice supportive community to be in
        
               | aecsocket wrote:
               | Interesting app, I haven't heard of Manabi before! How
               | does it compare to other apps like Jidousho? And other,
               | more general desktop tools like Yomitan? On mobile, I'm
               | currently using Yomitan on Firefox for mining, but I'm
               | curious about other mobile-specific approaches and apps
               | that people have made.
        
               | wahnfrieden wrote:
               | Compared with Yomitan, a couple quick differences that
               | come to mind:
               | 
               | - Manabi tracks the words and kanji you've read to show
               | you which are new to you, and which you have as
               | flashcards. You can see this visually on the page, and in
               | a vocab listing
               | 
               | - Review flashcards that appear in whatever you're trying
               | to read. Soon I will also have it auto-review flashcards
               | passively as you read and encounter them naturally
               | 
               | - Add flashcards to Manabi Flashcards or to Anki
               | including AnkiMobile on iOS
               | 
               | - One-tap words to look up instead of mouseover from
               | starting boundary
               | 
               | - Manabi packages reading tools such as RSS, EPUB and
               | soon manga (via Mokuro) with user-editable curated
               | libraries of content. Yomitan is less of a standalone-
               | capable tool
               | 
               | I am working on adding Yomitan dictionaries now (to also
               | make the app multilingual) as well as more integrations
               | such as 2-way sync with Anki, WaniKani, JPDB
               | 
               | I think Jidoujisho has a lot of similarities but it's not
               | an iOS/macOS app
               | 
               | I should put up some product comparison material as there
               | are a lot of tools out there
        
             | joshdavham wrote:
             | https://refold.la/category/decks/
        
         | sandbach wrote:
         | I like to do this!
         | 
         | Here's one I made for British Sign Language by scraping
         | signbsl.com: https://github.com/sandbach/bsl-gcse
         | 
         | And an Arabic one by scraping Reverso:
         | https://github.com/sandbach/arabic_vocabulary
        
       | whartung wrote:
       | I have lots of project's smoldering (or not) on my hard drive.
       | 
       | One of them is a years long passion that consists of several,
       | large, yet to be connected chunks. Those are at what I think I'll
       | call about the 75% mark.
       | 
       | I must say, that one of my favorite was when I decided to pound
       | out a 6502 simulator over Christmas break one year.
       | 
       | My singular goal was to get Fig-Forth assembled and running on
       | it. I wrote the simple CPU simulator and an assembler over the
       | span of 2 weeks.
       | 
       | It's hard to describe the experience of debugging an unfamiliar
       | code base, in assembly language, against a buggy CPU, using a
       | buggy assembler, and using another buggy web based 6502 simulator
       | as a baseline.
       | 
       | "Computers are deterministic!" Hah! Not this one!
       | 
       | But it was a fun, seat of your pants Christmas blitz.
        
       | throwaway638637 wrote:
       | How do people with kids do this kind of stuff lol?
        
         | kfarr wrote:
         | Late nights and not enough sleep
        
         | djmips wrote:
         | They're 10X parents.
        
         | lanfeust6 wrote:
         | they don't
        
       | zeroq wrote:
       | "The fantastic element that explains the appeal of games to many
       | developers is neither the fire-breathing monsters nor the milky-
       | skinned, semi-clad sirens; it is the experience of carrying out a
       | task from start to finish without any change in the user
       | requirements."
        
       | blatantly wrote:
       | A side project is creative while work is reductive (not
       | necessarily a bad thing!)
       | 
       | Side project is graffiti art on your shed wall, day job is 3
       | coats gloss white on the ceilings. That needs to be finished by
       | Friday.
       | 
       | I have some side project ideas but need the time! Mainly these
       | would be contributing to OSS databases to get (any!) knowledge of
       | systems proprogramming. Node.js or Go preferred due to
       | familiarity.
        
         | ripped_britches wrote:
         | Great metaphor but I feel like my day job is graffiti style
         | crap code that just barely passes QA while all of my side
         | project code is the good good 3 coats of SW superpaint
        
           | californical wrote:
           | Graffiti can be as beautiful or messy as you want! You can
           | put any amount of effort in to the craft
        
       | fredro wrote:
       | I feel this in a side project way but also in a hobby project
       | way.
       | 
       | Blissful Zen is a great way to put it.
       | 
       | Story: My mother had 2 of her 3 dogs die on the same day. We
       | buried them in the backyard as we have many little friends before
       | them. This was the first time I dug the graves (my dad had always
       | beared that -- but he passed away last year).
       | 
       | The grave soil was very clay rich. I had recently seen a video on
       | how to reclaim natural clay. It was very rewarding to turn the
       | natural clay into workable clay.
       | 
       | But the real challenge -- how to fire it? I saw guys using
       | charcoal and bricks in their driveway but that can't get hot
       | enough.
       | 
       | So the real Zen has been building an electric kiln from scratch.
       | It is a simple-ish problem with a whole lot of simplish steps.
       | Perfect to keep my mind occupied when it needs to be. I have also
       | learned an amazing amount (about clay, pottery, kilns,
       | Arduino/ESP32, thermocouples, resistance wire, refractory cement,
       | insulation, electrical code, weird soldering techniques, and many
       | more).
       | 
       | First fire will be tomorrow.
        
         | davidanekstein wrote:
         | This sounds amazingly cool, would love to read about the
         | process after you're done if you have an intention to write
         | about it.
        
       | ehaveman wrote:
       | this resonates.
       | 
       | "consumption-to-creation ratio" are words i've never put to that
       | positive feeling of choosing to code over watching another TV
       | show or the negative feeling of the alternative choice.
       | 
       | recently i feel like vibe coding is a cheat code in this respect
       | - i can code while watching TV... and a few times the output of
       | the vibe coding exercise was interesting enough to switch to full
       | attention coding.
        
       | jvanderbot wrote:
       | My side projects have always mirrored work to a certain extent,
       | kind of building what I wish I could really do at work.
       | 
       | Led to my current job, which I love. Hopefully this lasts.
        
       | keyle wrote:
       | It's an interesting read. I'm in the complete opposite camp. I
       | can't pick up a game controller for more than 5 minutes without
       | feeling like I'm wasting time.
       | 
       | This has lead to many, many side projects throughout the years,
       | which I tend to like a zen garden[1]. Pruning, refining,
       | improving, and sometimes rewriting.
       | 
       | As soon as I work out the game mechanics of any game, I just see
       | it as just content now, and there is nothing holding me back to
       | play any longer. Same with watching TV shows or movies, I lose
       | interest pretty quickly and feel an urge to create something.
       | 
       | I've always been very in tune with time, our lack of it, and felt
       | like consumption is a waste of time.
       | 
       | That said I believe creativity is hormonal (that is only my
       | personal belief, unproven). It comes and goes. Some days I can't
       | stop creating, somedays I want netflix and chill. But that's 10
       | days cycle of sorts, 10 days on, 10 days off.
       | 
       | Depending on where you live, it's perfectly normal that due to
       | current events, or a personal loss in your life, etc. you might
       | not feel the creative bug tickling you. The creative hormone
       | might be totally wiped by your current environment or
       | predicament; tiredness, anger, stress, all play into it.
       | 
       | After all, since our early days in the caves, drawing on walls,
       | Humans wouldn't do so unless they had safety, a full belly, and a
       | warm fire. A place to call home. Creative time needs conditions
       | to be filled.
       | 
       | [1] https://noben.org
        
         | aaarrm wrote:
         | I'm the same, and it has kind of ruined me. No one I know
         | thinks the ways I do. I keep wondering if it's just due to
         | anxiety or a fear of death, or an inability to feel present or
         | what. But I really wish I could figure this aspect of myself
         | out so that I can relax and enjoy in a moment.
         | 
         | Whenever I realize that I was lost a moment, I get anxious
         | about what I should be doing with my time instead.
        
           | mahoumaigo wrote:
           | I'm also like this. Some part of me feels that any moment
           | spent not honing a skill / advancing in some way is a wasted
           | one. I know it's a bs perspective, but still I find myself
           | taking it constantly. I do manage to force myself out of this
           | way of thinking from time to time, but it requires conscious
           | effort to do so.
           | 
           | I imagine this forum has its fair share of people who fall
           | for this "overachiever fallacy". I'd be curious to hear how
           | others deal with it.
        
             | jcpst wrote:
             | For the longest time I railed against the fact that I am
             | mortal, and my time is finite. I wanted to squeeze
             | everything I could into my days, and I would feel guilty
             | about projects I didn't get to. This is despite having a
             | wife, kids, house, full time job.
             | 
             | Eventually I burned out on programming-based side projects.
             | I switched to activities that do not require staring at a
             | screen. So I build analog electronics, study music.
             | 
             | Then I had a heart attack. My mortality and the fragility
             | of life was never more clear. I accepted that I could die,
             | and let go of all the mental baggage I was holding onto.
             | 
             | I've felt 'cured' ever since. I don't recommend anyone get
             | a heart attack. But I do think people fall into patterns,
             | and get stuck inside of them. Sometimes a "pattern
             | interrupter" can break us out.
        
             | josephburnett wrote:
             | In terms of side projects, I've deliberately curated a
             | smaller set that meets multiple criteria. Social
             | connection, simplicity and elegance, and the ability to
             | start and stop at will.
             | 
             | At work I am always looking for ways to do more than one
             | thing at once. Learn a new skill. Teach something. Solve a
             | small problem. Make myself feel good. Take the solution to
             | the next level.
             | 
             | I think it's okay to want to always be honing and
             | advancing. Humans are always seeking lower energy paths.
             | Maybe you just need to expand the scope of the skills
             | you're seeking. One of the most valuable skills in my work
             | is the ability to stop and think about what I'm actually
             | trying to do. That is honed through stopping and observing
             | (meditation).
        
             | sgarland wrote:
             | I had that mindset, but then an overwhelming amount of
             | personal and work stress made me change. Unfortunately, as
             | I wrote in a comment further up, now I feel like I'm too
             | far on the other side, where all I do after work is relax.
             | 
             | If anyone has suggestions on striking a balance, I'd love
             | to hear them.
        
               | Aerbil313 wrote:
               | I share the experience of all 4 parents of this comment.
               | It turned out I had undiagnosed ADHD. After diagnosis all
               | my life suddenly made sense. Before the diagnosis, my
               | situation had progressed to a point I'd get burnout by
               | just everyday life, let alone work. Everything was
               | _overwhelming_. Treatment turned my life around.
               | 
               | Later, I found out I have autism too - many autistic
               | people "mask" around other people, altering their
               | behavior to hide autistic traits. This is another thing
               | causing (temporary) burnout after being around people.
        
               | sgarland wrote:
               | LOL yes. I have diagnosed and treated ADHD, and my
               | therapist suspects (but it is currently undiagnosed) that
               | I am autistic. Super fun times.
        
           | prox wrote:
           | If you are very analytical, a good call is to learn a
           | different way of being, call it "acceptance mode"
           | 
           | If you look at techniques employed from modern buddhism /
           | zen, where you just learn to settle into present (breath,
           | sensory experiences etc.) you can learn to shift your mind
           | from analysis to acceptance modes.
        
           | Xmd5a wrote:
           | Whenever I feel like I'm losing time, I go watch this and I
           | feel much better
           | 
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZbfNtDCHdM
           | @sappho3000         11 months ago         stop glamorizing
           | "the grind" and start glamorizing whatever this is
        
             | b2w wrote:
             | That's a very funny video! I'm curious to see if I can get
             | my swim club to do something like this :-)
        
           | joseferben wrote:
           | for me i figured out it's about the body. it's ok to be
           | lifted up from the body into the thinking mind but i "owe" my
           | body to spend some time there as well.
           | 
           | sometimes all it takes is sitting 20min in the morning just
           | observing sensations in my body, and saying good morning to
           | various organs haha. sounds silly but creates a solid
           | foundation for my day.
        
           | nyarlathotep_ wrote:
           | I'm in the same boat.
           | 
           | I'll say LLMs have influenced this for me. I've lost some
           | part of what made programming "interesting".
           | 
           | Sure, digging through docs and finding small-scale workable
           | examples to for boillerplate/whatever was never fun, but a
           | lot of what drew me to programming was the wading into the
           | unknown and the satisfaction of figuring things out (often
           | even "chore" type things).
           | 
           | I'll keep looking for a new hobby, I guess.
           | 
           | Related, I feel like programming jobs are on the way out, one
           | way or another (at least for me); programming recreationally
           | had the side benefit of increasing marketable skill--this was
           | never a primary or even secondary motivator for me, but now
           | seeing as it's benefit in that realm seems far smaller, I've
           | also lost motivation there.
           | 
           | Maybe I'll feel a bit better as the weather improves.
        
         | wonger_ wrote:
         | Yeah, I've noticed that when I have lots of stressors, I don't
         | have any creative energy. I have to give myself permission to
         | let go, that it's ok to forget about a side project. It's more
         | important to focus on self-care and tackling irl problems at
         | that point.
         | 
         | But when life is good, it's hard to stop tinkering. Weekend-
         | sized projects are the best. For me, it's an urge to create and
         | see the core 20% come to life, not to maintain the boring parts
         | over time.
         | 
         | Hormonal fluctuations is an interesting theory. I always
         | thought it's just a need for variety -- sometimes consuming
         | (i.e. developing taste, curating, exploring), sometimes
         | creating, sometimes relaxing. For me the cycle is months at a
         | time.
        
           | prox wrote:
           | One of the hallmarks of people who get stressed, and
           | especially people with burnout is that they don't have any
           | creative or any relaxive or active outlet anymore. They get
           | kind of stuck in their stressloop.
           | 
           | Say a people who enjoyed playing an instrument stops playing,
           | etc.
           | 
           | The best companies I worked allowed for a bit of game/social
           | activity between work sessions.
        
             | sgarland wrote:
             | My current problem is that I feel like I'm only barely
             | managing to not completely burn out via relaxation at
             | night. I used to have a ton of excitement over my side
             | project, but for the past several months, I can't muster
             | the energy. I play a board game on Steam (Wingspan: 10/10
             | would recommend the physical and digital version) that has
             | a soundtrack I like, and that's about it. This keeps me
             | sane, but I often find myself wishing I felt confident
             | enough to extend myself further.
             | 
             | Hopefully when my current large work project wraps up I'll
             | be able to take a breather.
        
               | m463 wrote:
               | wingspan is on my wishlist.
               | 
               | I played this computer game "eliza" by zachtronics and it
               | had this very interesting solitaire mini-game inside it.
               | I liked it so much I bought the zachtronics solitaire
               | collection. And wow, I would launch it "between things"
               | for a moment and it could easily spin the clock forward
               | an hour or more.
               | 
               | I had to _delete_ it from my computer.
               | 
               | I think there are some things you have to just say no to
               | and go through the pain of making yourself bored so
               | something better will fill in.
               | 
               | I think wingspan may remain on my wishlist :)
        
           | Globz wrote:
           | I've noticed this trend in my life where during winter times
           | my consumption goes way up and as soon as spring time is here
           | then my creativity crawls back from hibernation and I quickly
           | regain motivation to continue my side projects. I wish I
           | could be 100% focus year round but for some reason it very
           | hard to keep the inner flame of creativity going during
           | winter times. At least I did noticed this pattern and being
           | aware is the first step to remedy this problem.
        
             | didgetmaster wrote:
             | In some ways we are just like plants. Direct exposure to
             | fresh air and sunlight will greatly contribute to a burst
             | of energy and focus.
        
           | theoreticalmal wrote:
           | Oh wow! I've noticed a definitely cycle to my creativity as
           | well definitely correlated with stress. I've never thought
           | about hormonal changes. I've recently started taking lots
           | vitamins and keeping track of my motivation via a spreadsheet
           | each day. No conclusions yet, but I'm curious to see what
           | will show up
        
         | polishdude20 wrote:
         | I find that due to having a remote job and living alone (albeit
         | with my lovely dog) I'm less inclined to work on a side project
         | where I'm again alone. I tend to gravitate more nowadays to
         | spending time with people and being outdoors.
         | 
         | I used to be really active on side projects when I was a
         | teacher. I'd have my social interaction filled to the brim so
         | side projects were a way to have some alone time and recharge.
        
         | dilawar wrote:
         | > somedays I want netflix and chill.
         | 
         | I call them a zero day.
        
           | theF00l wrote:
           | I wonder if it's always a zero day. I think that things and
           | ways of thinking create momentum. The more you netflix and
           | chill, the likelier you are to netflix and chill.
        
             | jacamera wrote:
             | Yeah I definitely struggle with this. You need downtime to
             | relax but it's easy to "over relax" just like it's easy to
             | oversleep or overeat or overdo any other number of things
             | that are healthy and necessary but only at the right
             | amplitude and frequency. I think that's why it can feel so
             | good to be in a rhythm. You get a nice oscillation going
             | that rides the wave of momentum instead of some monotonic
             | rise or fall that is going to lead to burnout or
             | stagnation.
        
         | tomwojcik wrote:
         | I'm in the same boat. Ever since I started working
         | professionally, I was always praised for delivering first, and
         | it shows in how I work. I'm a maker, I love to deliver. I have
         | a few side projects as well, a few that are relatively
         | completed and I haven't even deployed them, because they were
         | just fun to build. Some are deployed, and I enjoy polishing
         | them.
         | 
         | On the other hand, I remember that time you enjoy wasting is
         | not a wasted time. I don't sleep well if I don't just chill and
         | forget about the world, from time to time. It's like in the
         | Sims. I aim towards my creativity and entertainment need bars
         | to be filled. While coding, I often increase the fill of both
         | bars.
        
         | djmips wrote:
         | How are your in the opposite camp of an article encouraging
         | side projects when you say you have many side projects?
        
           | keyle wrote:
           | The author wrote about long periods of time when he wasn't
           | encouraged to make anything creative, and just consume.
        
             | grumpy-de-sre wrote:
             | You're definitely not alone.
             | 
             | In my case it's somewhat of a learned behavior, a lot of my
             | favorite video games make me violently motion sick so over
             | time I just stopped playing them.
             | 
             | Most TV is pretty boring IMO. There's always exceptions but
             | it's not something I find myself regularly being drawn to.
             | 
             | I'm always tinkering on something (a longtime favorite is
             | gardening), and I'm pretty sure I'll always be tinkering
             | until the day I die. Some of us are just wired differently.
             | 
             | Can be a little difficult to connect with the mainstream
             | folks though. I pretty much live in a different world.
        
               | fragmede wrote:
               | Thankfully the long tail of the Internet means there _is_
               | a world you can connect to.
        
         | ratsimihah wrote:
         | Have you tried League of Legends or Valorant? I'm like you as I
         | can't not have multiple side projects going on at any time, but
         | at the same time there is so much room to improve in these
         | kinds of game I find them hard to stop at times.
        
           | diggan wrote:
           | I'm somewhat the same way as parent, getting bored once I
           | figured out the mechanics. While I haven't tried League of
           | Legends, I have tried Valorant, and generally the type of
           | games that is more about _mastery_ of a skill rather than
           | discovery, exploration, story or problem-solving, gets boring
           | fast for me at least.
        
         | chenshuiluke wrote:
         | I wish I could be more like you in this regard. Perhaps you're
         | right about the "creative hormone" thing.
        
         | intelVISA wrote:
         | We have finite time, self-actualization through creation is
         | very human. Too much passive consumption is sleepwalking
         | through life.
         | 
         | However, creators often forget that mental exercise is like
         | physical, you don't sprint 24/7 you have to pace intensity
         | whether it's running or writing Clojure.
        
         | WhyOhWhyQ wrote:
         | This is how I am except with nostalgia content, which I cannot
         | see as just content.
         | 
         | It is however impossible for me to play the latest games or
         | watch the latest shows for 10 minutes without feeling like my
         | time is being wasted.
        
       | tombert wrote:
       | I had a lot of fun overengineering the hell out of the status bar
       | in Sway recently. It was something that I got working in fifteen
       | minutes in Bash, and then ended up rewriting in Clojure, then
       | figuring out how to get working with GraalVM, and then just kept
       | adding features and making it more customizable.
       | 
       | None of this was that _hard_ (outside of making it async-
       | friendly, that was a little tricky), but it also wasn 't trivial.
       | I had Law and Order on in the background, and I hacked on it for
       | a few days, and it did kind of get me into a "zen state".
       | Figuring out how to make the code more flexible and figuring out
       | which features I can feasibly add was relaxing.
       | 
       | I think part of it was that there's really no consequences to
       | this. If I screw something up, no one is going to be mad at me,
       | no one is going to yell at me, I'm not going to get fired, and
       | I'm allowed to go off onto any tangents that I would like because
       | I'm just doing this for fun. It doesn't feel like "work" because
       | "work" often involves me working on stuff I don't want to work
       | on. If something is too frustrating, I don't have to go through
       | approvals and legal to import a library that does it for me. I
       | can spend as much or as little time as I'd like writing
       | documentation. I can micro-optimize or not-optimize however I'd
       | like.
       | 
       | And fundamentally, if I screw something up, it's the text on the
       | Swaybar, it's really not the end of the world.
       | 
       | It can be tough to find a project that holds my interest enough
       | to get into this. I tend to have the most fun working on stuff
       | that is completely unimportant, because if I'm not trying to
       | change the world, then I can be as creative as I like.
        
       | sashank_1509 wrote:
       | Creation-to-Consumption ratio, really well put. I never thought
       | of this before, but will now keep this in my mental models
        
       | FatChauncy wrote:
       | I've had a similar feeling lately after deciding to dust off some
       | old textbooks and brush up on my math.
        
       | damion6 wrote:
       | It'd be nice if folks stopped using a religion as a catch phrase.
       | If I included Jesus in a catchy title people would be offended
        
         | djmips wrote:
         | Gatekeeping the use of the word Zen in English is probably
         | counter to the core principles ironically. But I understand
         | your concern.
         | 
         | Even the CPU in my computer is named Zen
        
       | bitbuilder wrote:
       | This article really resonated with me.
       | 
       | I'm currenlty juggling a few side projects, one of which is a
       | game I've been tinkering with for 3 years. It's a pretty simple
       | simulation of riding your bike through a city at night. It's
       | never been anywhere near close to anything I could actually
       | release, but I finally at least pulled together a gameplay video
       | I could show off to my familiy and friends. They were all pretty
       | impressed, and all wanted to know when I'd actually release it.
       | 
       | But I doubt I ever will. To me, making the game _is_ my game, and
       | I 've tried to frame my side project work to my gamer friends
       | that way. Sometimes it's giving myself new techncial puzzles to
       | figure out, other times it's just letting myself zone out and get
       | creative with world building, snapping together building facades
       | like legos to build whatever crazy city I can imagine. It's so
       | much fun.
       | 
       | Another is a web project that's much less fun and creative, but
       | the more I tinker with it the more it turns into something that
       | may actually be useful to others. And it may actually turn into
       | something I can release and promote, and maybe even earn a little
       | beer money with. I'm currently working up the motivation and
       | courage to do a Show HN on that one here soon.
       | 
       | It almost pains me to say it (for reasons I can't even articulate
       | well) but I've found LLMs to be tremendously useful in pushing
       | through on side project work. I've lost track of how many
       | projects I've spun up over the years and abandoned as soon as I
       | got to the tedious parts you need to tackle if you actually want
       | a marketable product (admin interfaces, user accounts, endless
       | boilerplate html, etc, etc). With a competent LLM I can just
       | delegate all the tedious crap and stay focused on what's actually
       | fun for me. It's great.
        
         | djmips wrote:
         | I really like the concept of night driving in the city.
        
       | czhu12 wrote:
       | I've finally gotten to a place in my life financially where I
       | don't care as much about the potential of making money from side
       | projects and get to just build what I find interesting with the
       | care and attention that I've always wanted.
       | 
       | It's very zen, finally I feel no pressure to make progress, or
       | feel like I'm wasting time by refactoring.
       | 
       | Sometimes I'd spend days just trying to get an animation exactly
       | how I wanted to, or build vanity features entirely because
       | they're cool.
       | 
       | Everything else I've worked on, had aspirations of making money
       | one day, and it quickly becomes a job.
       | 
       | (Working on https://canine.sh)
        
       | AdieuToLogic wrote:
       | Zen is found,       Not in a project.            But in desire,
       | To quell a need.            A need born,       From purity of
       | thought.            Thought without,       Encumbrance.
       | Thought without,       Politics.            Thought without,
       | Concern of outcome.            But in desire,       To quell a
       | need.            To find Zen,       Not from a project.
       | But within oneself.
        
       | shashanoid wrote:
       | There's nothing more euphoric to me than working on a good
       | project which I thought of as an idea and watching it turn real.
       | I can work on it all day and not feel tired.. in the zone,
       | meditating.. building.
        
       | bdean0001 wrote:
       | Really enjoying this thread, especially the points about creative
       | cycles and the connection between stress and our drive to create.
       | I recently wrote a book that dives into some of this, blending
       | behavioral psychology with mindset principles like the law of
       | attraction. It's all about how our habits, thoughts, and
       | environment shape our ability to stay inspired and follow through
       | on projects.
       | 
       | If anyone's curious, I'm happy to send over a free copy--just
       | reply. Always love connecting with others who think deeply about
       | creativity and motivation.
       | 
       | https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DWM35DXH
        
       | nradov wrote:
       | It does matter what the project is. Not all are "good".
       | 
       | My last significant side project was the opposite of "blissful".
       | In order to preserve and migrate some important personal data I
       | had to reverse engineer an obsolete, undocumented file format.
       | Then I had to use a confusing and badly documented commercial
       | library to convert the data into a modern file format. I had to
       | figure everything out through trial and error with nearly zero
       | support. It was a frustrating pain in the ass from start to
       | finish and while I'm satisfied with the results I didn't enjoy a
       | minute of it.
        
         | barbs wrote:
         | Is it weird that I actually think that sounds enjoyable?
        
       | tasuki wrote:
       | Wrt creating, writing a blog post also counts!
        
       | jlcases wrote:
       | Documentation quality has been the determining factor in the
       | evolution of my side projects. I've developed a structured
       | documentation system that has completely transformed my workflow
       | with AI assistants.
        
         | leoedin wrote:
         | Can you share more about this?
         | 
         | I think that's often the thing that kills my side projects.
         | I'll make reasonable progress, lose interest for a bit, and
         | then when I come back to it all the working memory is gone and
         | so I spend a few hours just getting up to speed again. Better
         | ongoing documentation to allow quicker self-onboarding is what
         | I need!
        
           | Philpax wrote:
           | I've had reasonable success with taking diary-style notes on
           | whatever project I'm working on within that project's page in
           | Obsidian, and then when I need to come back to it, either
           | reading over it or passing it through a LLM to summarise /
           | ask me targeted questions to prod my memory.
        
       | paulbjensen wrote:
       | This post hit the nail on the head for me.
       | 
       | Having just finished up a 4-year contracting gig this week, I
       | decided to learn Svelte and recreate a silly little music PoC I
       | made about 15 years ago:
       | 
       | Demo: http://lets-make-sweet-music.com Github:
       | http://github.com/paulbjensen/lets-make-sweet-music
       | 
       | I started making it about 2 days ago - One of my former
       | colleagues even managed to play the Jurassic Park theme song on
       | it for a bit.
       | 
       | What I loved about working on that side project I think is a
       | couple of things:
       | 
       | 1 - I could have an idea, implement it, and push it up right
       | away.
       | 
       | This is a breathe of fresh air compared to the coding process at
       | my last gig. The client had a well-structured process of
       | submitting pull requests which required a code review approval
       | before being merged into the codebase.
       | 
       | That process meant that you essentially spent your day picking up
       | tickets and moving them along, and because people wouldn't
       | necessarily be immediately available to perform the code review,
       | the PR could stay open for quite some time.
       | 
       | That delayed feedback loop and hoop-jumping process adds stop-
       | starts into the coding flow state. You can never get into it the
       | same way you can working on a side project.
       | 
       | 2 - The tech stack choices are yours to make and quick to do
       | 
       | The tech stack choices used with the client were made by the tech
       | steering committee and your job was essentially to implement the
       | features required by your product team within the parameters of
       | those tech stack choices. They do that to ensure that there is a
       | consistent use of technologies within the company, to the extent
       | that you can quickly swap say frontend engineers from one team to
       | another whenever needed and they can be productive.
       | 
       | On one hand that is great, but on the other hand you don't have
       | the freedom to try new technologies, or even introduce tooling
       | that you feel is better suited for the requirement.
       | 
       | I even had to justify trying to use Sentry rather than
       | ElasticSearch's Kibana for error logging, even though the client
       | was using both tools within the business.
       | 
       | When you are working on the side project, you can make choices
       | and decisions far quicker and easier - the feedback loop is just
       | much quicker and progress happens faster.
       | 
       | 3 - The scope of your input into the side project is far greater
       | 
       | When I worked with the client, I was effectively working as a
       | frontend engineer, because they had a gap in a product team to
       | fill.
       | 
       | However, my skills and experience in my career extended to being
       | a full-stack developer who also liked to work on design work in
       | Sketch and even knew how to deploy to VPS, not just work with a
       | PaaS.
       | 
       | When you don't get to use those skills daily in your client work,
       | they will wither, and you can end up becoming pigeon-holed and
       | institutionalised into a narrow way-of-working, which is a danger
       | to being able to apply the full extent of your capabilities.
       | 
       | So the side projects end up serving as a way to exercise those
       | underused skills. Especially if you relish having creative
       | freedom, which reminds me of something that Paul Graham said
       | about developers - they don't do it necessarily for the money -
       | they do it to have creative freedom.
       | 
       | I haven't found the link to the video, but he touches on it a bit
       | in this post: https://www.paulgraham.com/really.html
        
       | monkeydust wrote:
       | Most of my creation is done at work now, previously more balanced
       | outside of work with side projects but with little kids a more
       | demanding job its hard, so outside work time is more consumption,
       | though some of that is social consumption which I feel has value
       | (pub, gaming).
        
       | brador wrote:
       | I've noticed I get this same feeling by writing a tight prompt to
       | AI. Not even reading the result fully, just sending it to be deep
       | processed.
       | 
       | Good for a quick hit of bliss zen when you need it.
        
       | bob1029 wrote:
       | > I've spent pretty much every night in recent memory burning
       | through video games, and I finally, inevitably, hit the wall with
       | that approach.
       | 
       | I burned out on gaming a few years ago. I used to be able to
       | power through weeks of the most inane incremental "game" slop as
       | if it was a voyage to the new world. Now I struggle to force
       | myself to play the most acclaimed AAA titles for 15-20 minutes. I
       | still browse the steam store from time to time, but I finally
       | stopped buying things.
       | 
       | The amount of time I spend on side projects has almost perfectly
       | filled the gap. There have even been a few nights recently where
       | I stayed up very late to watch an experiment unfold. We're
       | talking about staring at a single chart that updates once a
       | second for hours that is getting my heart rate up like a League
       | of Legends game.
       | 
       | I think from a dopamine perspective, you can make a good trade
       | here. The other side can feel even better. It's the transition
       | period that hurts. You've got to get that first tiny bit of
       | traction on the project so it feels like you might eventually
       | have an impact in the world around you. The more it sucks during
       | the first 48 hours, the more likely it will stick indefinitely.
       | When you come back in the morning to a successful experiment run
       | or a good stopping point, it can _very_ quickly snowball into
       | something that rivals the pharmacology of gaming.
        
       | andai wrote:
       | Ah yes, "blissful" Zen. That's the best kind!
       | 
       | ---
       | 
       | It reminds me of Yunmen, a monk who lived in China. He was born
       | around 860 A.D. and he lived ninety years. His enlightenment
       | story is a classic:
       | 
       | One day, Yunmen went to visit Mujo. When Mujo heard Yunmen
       | coming, he closed the door to his room. Yunmen knocked on the
       | door. Mujo said, "Who is it?"
       | 
       | Yunmen said, "It's me."
       | 
       | Mujo said, "What do you want?"
       | 
       | Yunmen said, "I'm not clear about my life. I'd like the master to
       | give me some instruction."
       | 
       | Mujo then opened the door, took one look at Yunmen and closed it
       | again.
       | 
       | Yunmen knocked on the door like this for three days in a row. On
       | the third day, when Mujo opened the door, Yunmen stuck his foot
       | in the door. Mujo grabbed Yunmen and yelled, "Speak! Speak!" When
       | Yunmen began to speak, Mujo gave him a shove and said, "Too
       | late." Mujo slammed the door. Yunmen's foot was still there, and
       | the slamming door broke Yunmen's foot. And at that moment, Yunmen
       | was greatly enlightened.
       | 
       | https://emptysqua.re/blog/the-day-yunmen-broke-his-foot/
        
         | b0dhimind wrote:
         | What's the meaning of this? Be spontaneous and give up on
         | contriving so much
        
       | drellybochelly wrote:
       | > I've spent pretty much every night in recent memory burning
       | through video games, and I finally, inevitably, hit the wall with
       | that approach.
       | 
       | I feel like I can only play games that are about 20-50 hours and
       | have a definitive end or game that you can chip away at an hour
       | at a time (e.g. EAFC). Even playing for just a couple hours a
       | night feels like time that could be going towards a side project
       | but time to unwind is important.
        
       | jazzcomputer wrote:
       | I'm in my 50s and I'm currently mulling the conundrum of being an
       | artist and designer with art and design side projects, and now
       | having them sidelined by a new-found interest in p5js. I'm
       | getting little glimpses of observing myself and how I'm
       | responding to my side-project time being increasingly compacted
       | by parenting, work and also a recent flush of training for a
       | mountain run (in order to maintain some fitness) - I also had a
       | temporary obsession with learning wheelies on my bike, which
       | further compacted time available for javascript learning outside
       | of work hours.
       | 
       | Anyways - this article was a good read, and I've enjoyed the
       | observations in the comments - especially about the body and the
       | ebb and flow nature of time spent on side projects.
       | 
       | I had a kind of burn-out last year where I'd work 'til 1am and
       | then feel drained and grouchy the next day. A new found interest
       | in sleep has been paying dividends, but I need to lean into it
       | further.
        
       | jordanmorgan10 wrote:
       | The interesting thing with my side projects is that they are ever
       | so close to being a full-on business, but they are slightly under
       | the threshold where I could go all in (stay at home wife, three
       | kids, American healthcare costs). So, it's hard to think of them
       | as "side" projects when in reality they've become a "side"
       | business. It's like I have no choice but to take them a bit
       | seriously, though I do hope to find the time for a "love of the
       | game" side project. Great post.
        
         | cushychicken wrote:
         | I'm a bit behind where you are with my side businesses, and the
         | way I feel about them is more acutely aware of the time
         | tradeoff I have to make to work on them.
         | 
         | To side hustle on my job board, I have to give up hanging out
         | with my kid.
         | 
         | That's just not a trade I've felt like making recently.
         | 
         | On top of that, I just changed jobs, and got a _very_
         | appreciable salary bump for it. It makes the grind of the side
         | business seem pretty paltry in comparison: the returns on my
         | main career track are just so much bigger thanks to my
         | compounding experience and skill there.
        
       | grahar64 wrote:
       | I like to have side projects that end in a blog post. So many
       | people never share side projects because they are going for
       | perfection and give up on the way, but if the end result is not
       | code or a product I find it more enjoyable to work on. Like have
       | a vision of what you want to explore and focus on that.
        
       | bitcoin_anon wrote:
       | Echoes of Howard Roark.
        
       | irishloop wrote:
       | > I think we exist to bring new things into existence. If you ask
       | me, to the extent there is a meaning of life, that's it. We exist
       | to create. It lights us up in a way nothing else does, putting
       | something new into our world--and in doing so, fundamentally
       | changing it, in whatever way, however big or small.
       | 
       | I find this a rather strange, limited way of looking at our
       | existence.
       | 
       | I believe there is joy in creating. I believe there is joy in
       | just spending time with the people you love. I believe there is
       | joy in exploring new places, people, ideas. I believe there is
       | joy in being still and present.
       | 
       | We are always looking for some singular, defining thing in our
       | lives. What does it all _mean_. It has to be _for_ something.
       | 
       | But I disagree. It doesn't have to be for anything. It's enough
       | to just do what brings you joy, to evolve and change, to treat
       | others in kindness. The rest is just personal preferences.
        
       | didgetmaster wrote:
       | I feel like there are two kinds of side projects. One type is a
       | small project that can be coded up in a short time (a weekend or
       | a few evenings). It reaches a functional stage rather quickly and
       | only takes a few hours to fix bugs or improve the user
       | experience.
       | 
       | The other type is much bigger and can take months or even years.
       | New features are added from time to time, but must also fit into
       | a well defined architecture.
       | 
       | Both types can be satisfying but require different approaches.
       | The first gives you a bunch of different projects that get
       | shuffled around and easily abandoned. The second requires more
       | discipline as you continually build upon previous layers.
       | 
       | Since they are both side projects, you can go weeks without
       | looking at them or spend all your spare time on them for extended
       | periods.
       | 
       | I have a side project that I have dabbled with for a decade.
       | There are months where I get many features working and others
       | where I barely look at it. It just depends on what else is
       | happening in my life at the moment.
        
       | MattSayar wrote:
       | I love this, and yes can completely relate. The last side project
       | I got absorbed into[0] completely consumed me for a weekend. I
       | was driven like a man possessed to finish it before Monday. I had
       | to leave the house and stake out a corner in a coffee shop to
       | concentrate. The scope of the project was perfect: it was small
       | enough to do in a weekend, I was building something I needed, and
       | something that could help others. _Creating something_ is so much
       | fun, especially when you have a long-lasting way to share it like
       | your own website.
       | 
       | I know people disparage LLMs for not building any serious code.
       | Yes it's only a hobby project and not a production system, but my
       | little project really would never have left the ground without
       | it.
       | 
       | [0] https://mattsayar.com/i-didnt-want-to-pay-for-a-
       | newsletter-e...
        
       | gdubs wrote:
       | I can confidently say that the vast majority of this skill I have
       | in my career came because my side projects were interesting and
       | sufficiently hard and, here's the important one: general. There's
       | so much specialization in our era - being able to connect dots
       | across a wide variety of concepts, fields, and disciplines is a
       | superpower.
        
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