[HN Gopher] Germany's 'Deutschlandticket' helps environment - study
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       Germany's 'Deutschlandticket' helps environment - study
        
       Author : rustoo
       Score  : 69 points
       Date   : 2025-04-04 18:36 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.dw.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.dw.com)
        
       | quakeguy wrote:
       | Nothing new under the sun.
        
       | Aldipower wrote:
       | "A study funded by the German government ..." bla bla bla
       | 
       | I mean, the Deutschlandticket is finance by taxes, so it is no
       | surprise, that a study financed by the government, that is
       | responsible for the taxes, reveals only good things.
        
         | niemandhier wrote:
         | Parts of the government would like to get rid of it, we are a
         | nation of car companies after all.
        
           | Aldipower wrote:
           | Not true, when this study was financed.
           | 
           | I have nothing against the Deutschlandticket, like it too.
           | But I do not like bad studies.
        
             | ziddoap wrote:
             | > _But I do not like bad studies._
             | 
             | Can you share your link to the study & data? I'd like to
             | determine if it is a "bad study" myself. I looked at the
             | links in the article and it doesn't seem to have the study.
        
               | Aldipower wrote:
               | Sure. As there is only one "study" Deutschewelle relates
               | to. https://mcc-berlin-ariadne.shinyapps.io/dticket-
               | tracker/ Highly biased. Telling you this is actually the
               | job of DW, not me.
        
               | ziddoap wrote:
               | Thanks! Curious to dig into it over the weekend.
        
               | barbazoo wrote:
               | How is it "highly biased"?
        
         | oytis wrote:
         | The government decided to introduce Deutschlandticket to, among
         | other things, reduce CO2 emissions. The government financed a
         | study to quantify the effect. I don't really see a conflict of
         | interests here, or how it compromises the integrity of the
         | study.
        
           | Aldipower wrote:
           | The conflict is the potential waste of tax money, if it does
           | not work as advertised.
        
             | Krasnol wrote:
             | I don't know what conspiracy you try to construct here, but
             | it doesn't make sense. The new government would love to
             | have a study which says that it didn't help, so they can
             | cut it. They'd still want to cut it and it already got more
             | expensive.
             | 
             | Also, this is a Meta-analysis. Here it is:
             | https://ariadneprojekt.de/media/2025/04/Ariadne-
             | Report_Deuts...
             | 
             | Try reading that before you start spreading such
             | constructs.
        
         | riedel wrote:
         | The study was published by the Ariadne Project[0]. They also
         | publish studies that actually criticize other subsidiaries by
         | the government [1]
         | 
         | Our research system in Germany is mostly publically funded,
         | btw. Not sure who else would fund an independent study. It is
         | actually a meta study, that states it's methodology and also
         | mentiones contradictory results.
         | 
         | [0] https://ariadneprojekt.de/news-de/deutschlandticket-
         | verkehrs...
         | 
         | [1] https://ariadneprojekt.de/en/press-releases/a-reward-of-
         | seve...
        
       | pixelpoet wrote:
       | Mine's even paid for by the company, and on top of that we get a
       | great discounted bike program: https://www.jobrad.org/
       | 
       | Over 40 years old, lived in basically all the countries, never
       | had a driver's licence!
        
         | Etheryte wrote:
         | Somewhat curious, how long is the list of "basically all the
         | countries" really?
        
           | jeofken wrote:
           | Maybe GP means country as in "Bundesland", like how British
           | people call their regions "countries"
        
           | chaoskanzlerin wrote:
           | Might not be what you meant, but German uses the same word
           | for "state (federal subdivision)" and "country", known as
           | "Land". In contrast, "Staat" refers chiefly to the
           | administrative apparatus (implicitly of some country).
        
           | pixelpoet wrote:
           | Ehh yeah actually the list of countries isn't that long, and
           | I mean living as in at least a few months (but most are at
           | least a few years) in own apartment etc. Includes Indonesia
           | (used to speak Bahasa as a kid), South Africa, Poland,
           | Czechia, USA, England, Germany, Switzerland, and probably
           | some others along the way. I suppose the actually-long list
           | is cities; in Germany I've lived in 6 cities, and it's quite
           | a few cities for some of the other countries.
           | 
           | My main point though is that, while I get there are places
           | where you absolutely need a car, a lot of people
           | (particularly in car-cultured countries) are surprised to
           | hear you can get by just fine without one in many cases.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Some previous discussion:
       | 
       |  _Germany 's 49-euro ticket resulted in significant shift from
       | road to rail_
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41819481
        
       | dfxm12 wrote:
       | It probably helps tourism too. Foreigners in Japan can get a rail
       | pass at a huge discount. I might not have left Tokyo if not for
       | it. It would be fun to pop around the country, from Munich to
       | Stuttgart (for Oktoberfest and Volksfest?), then onto Frankfurt
       | and Nuremburg. It looks like it pays for itself after 2 trips.
        
         | zeeZ wrote:
         | The Japan Rail Pass has gotten a price hike recently and now it
         | feels like you have to keep chasing trains a lot to make it
         | worthwhile. The regional passes are a bit better, but still
         | require more moving around than I'm comfortable with for a
         | vacation.
         | 
         | The Deutschlandticket is only valid for up to Reginald lines
         | and not on faster trains like IC and ICE. It's already worth it
         | money wise for the first trip already, but only using local
         | connections adds at least an hour per trip between those
         | cities, plus a bunch of layovers.
        
         | elpocko wrote:
         | It doesn't. The ticket is available as a monthly subscription
         | only, you can't just go and buy one.
        
           | dietr1ch wrote:
           | Which would help tourism if tourists could buy it, but the
           | app asked for some Id and double-checking the web asks for an
           | European address (UK is also listed)
        
             | elpocko wrote:
             | Yeah, as in "you can just go and buy one." It looks like
             | they made it intentionally hard to acquire the ticket:
             | government issued identification required, no way to
             | purchase it ad hoc, subscription only; it's German
             | bureaucratic hell. It's as if they want it to fail.
        
               | usr1106 wrote:
               | The political reasoning was that it's for commuters only.
               | Tourism is not a big thing on federal level, so they
               | don't want to subsidize tickets for tourists. Tourist
               | areas sometimes have special tourist tickets for their
               | guests.
        
               | dietr1ch wrote:
               | As a tourist though you want the least burden without
               | getting ripped off. Just ask for my payment details and
               | charge me whatever is fair for my trips.
               | 
               | I don't want to become an expert on buying the optimal
               | set of tickets from multiple regions.
        
               | usr1106 wrote:
               | That's your perspective. The federal government is not
               | interested. Tourist regions are interested, but of course
               | they usually do not cooperate with others, so every one
               | invents their own thing. So you end up what Germans call
               | a ticket jungle.
        
               | dietr1ch wrote:
               | They made me spend more money, which I wouldn't mind
               | since I don't contribute to any of the subsidies public
               | transport may have, but you can simply charge more, or
               | consider it an investment since tourists bring new money
               | in daily.
               | 
               | Having the ticket would help a lot navigating around
               | without fear of having the wrong ticket or making dealing
               | with delays or cancellation even more frustrating.
        
               | filmor wrote:
               | You only need some official document (ID card, passport,
               | whatever) that matches the name and birthday. If you are
               | a tourist, you must have a passport or ID card close by
               | anyhow.
        
             | usr1106 wrote:
             | There is no "the app". There are 100s of sellers, and each
             | of them has different processes. Some sell smart cards at
             | the ticket windows, most have apps, and some have both.
             | Only the price and the basic rules of validity are
             | nationwide. Some offer extra regional perks.
        
           | zeta_ wrote:
           | You can just cancel the subscription at any moment. I had
           | American friends doing that.
        
             | elpocko wrote:
             | Americans can't buy the ticket. EU citizens only.
        
               | usr1106 wrote:
               | Source? I seriosly doubt that. Yes, it's difficult to
               | find a suitable seller, but it's neither forbidden nor
               | impossible.
        
               | elpocko wrote:
               | I only have anecdata and I don't feel like googling until
               | I find something that confirms the real life experience.
               | 
               | It's probably not impossible, but it's also not as simple
               | a transaction as it could be. It is a difficult affair,
               | at least _bordering on impossible_ unless you 're a EU
               | citizen with a SEPA bank account.
        
           | usr1106 wrote:
           | It's a subscription requiring a German bank account in most
           | cases. In theory any SEPA account should work, but it's a
           | well-known problem that sellers break the law and accept only
           | domestic accounts.
           | 
           | However, reportedly a small number of apps allow paying by
           | credit card. And some are more flexible regarding cancelling
           | the subscription than others.
        
             | filmor wrote:
             | I just stayed with the app that I used for my old monthly
             | ticket (mobil.nrw) and it allows paying with Paypal.
        
       | comrade1234 wrote:
       | Pre-pandemic some cities/kantons here in Switzerland wanted to
       | make public transportation free (we're still recovering from
       | running trains and transport essentially empty for a couple of
       | years).
       | 
       | However the Swiss constitution says that people have to be
       | charged a "reasonable" fee for public transportation. It was
       | probably meant to make it so they can't be overcharged. But it's
       | been also interpreted that there has to be a minimum charge -
       | thus no free transport.
        
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       (page generated 2025-04-04 23:02 UTC)