[HN Gopher] Gumroad's source is available
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Gumroad's source is available
        
       Author : philipjoubert
       Score  : 418 points
       Date   : 2025-04-04 09:56 UTC (13 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | psnehanshu wrote:
       | It's Rails!
        
         | niklasbabel wrote:
         | i believe Sahil mentioned they're moving away from Rails soon,
         | as he sees it as technical debt.
        
           | omnimus wrote:
           | Drama creation for marketing?
        
             | taylorportman wrote:
             | Technical debt, so hot right now.
        
               | omnimus wrote:
               | I mean that choice of framework has very little to do
               | with technical debt. So you claim something like this to
               | create attention.
        
       | rmason wrote:
       | It launched right here on HN 14 years ago.
       | 
       | https://x.com/shl/status/1908090697984426227/photo/1
        
         | ihowlatthemoon wrote:
         | Original discussion thread here:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2406614
        
           | owebmaster wrote:
           | One day work to start a multi-million project, 13 years ago.
           | That's the real vibing.
        
             | ignoramous wrote:
             | Some might not be aware: It wasn't always smooth sailing
             | for Sahil (could have had a much comfortable life if he
             | stayed put at Pinterest).
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37059594
        
               | jatins wrote:
               | didn't he mention that he got fired from Pinterest?
        
           | occamschainsaw wrote:
           | Interesting discussion on the merits of the initial plan of a
           | paid link shortening service and the opposite approach (easy-
           | to-setup paid access to links).They were discussing adding
           | Bitcoin as a payment method when it was 0.7 cents a pop.
        
             | spiderice wrote:
             | That part made me chuckle.
             | 
             | > At the current ~$0.70 / bitcoin, this means that every
             | American will be able to have ~$0.05 in his or her
             | electronic wallet, once all bitcoins are generated.
             | Assuming that the rest of the world does not participate at
             | all and that bitcoins are evenly distributed.
             | 
             | > Sure, you could imagine an instant dollar-to-bitcoin-to-
             | dollar conversion at the point of payment. Or you could
             | imagine a bitcoin2.org that generates more coins. Or you
             | could hope for a massive surge in the value of the bitcoin.
             | 
             | > I'd put my money on Paypal sticking around, though.
             | 
             | Even back that people pointed out the obvious flaw of
             | Bitcoin remaining at $0.70. But I wonder if any of them
             | believed it would be at $100,000 in 14 years
             | 
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2407998
        
         | Aurornis wrote:
         | Gumroad became my cautionary tale for startup equity for early
         | engineers.
         | 
         | I remember excitedly following the story from start. It was fun
         | to follow along. Then around 2015 things weren't working well,
         | so they laid off most of the team. Investors sold the company
         | back to the founder at a steep discount. As I recall, a major
         | investor sold their ownership for $1.
         | 
         | Just like that, the founding engineers who worked so hard lost
         | their jobs and saw their equity valued down to nothing.
         | 
         | It happens! However, the strange thing in this case was that
         | the company kept going. They had laid (almost) everyone off and
         | declared their equity worthless, yet the company was still
         | making money and growing. My younger self struggled to
         | understand how the founding engineers could have gone from
         | working so hard on something to being laid off and seeing their
         | equity wiped out while the business itself continued right on
         | working and generating revenue.
         | 
         | A lot has been written to put positive spin on those events.
         | The founder claims to have helped out some of the early
         | engineers in vague ways. However, I'll never forget being a
         | young, aspiring startup engineer and watching an entire startup
         | team get wiped out of the business they helped create and then
         | the business just kept on trucking for the founder who walked
         | away with ownership of the company.
        
           | adrr wrote:
           | How did lose all their equity? You can't declare equity is
           | worthless. You can raise new rounds with different valuations
           | and dilute previous investors/employees but they would also
           | dilute themselves.
        
             | rahimnathwani wrote:
             | Google 'drag along rights'.
        
             | hobofan wrote:
             | Even if they don't "lose" their equity, it might just turn
             | essentially worthless. Very often "equity" founding staff
             | receives is in the form of (V)ESOP s = (virtual) employee
             | stock options, or other equity grants that only materialize
             | in the case of an "exit event". Depending on how the exit
             | events are specified in the contract, the founder taking
             | the company private (/ divestment from the investors) might
             | have resulted in an exit event with $1 value of the
             | company.
        
           | jokethrowaway wrote:
           | A friend built a startup for years and progress was not
           | looking good. Eventually the entire development team quit and
           | left without equities. The founder was then acquired for
           | millions.
           | 
           | Another case: startup running out of money after a series B
           | or C and a history of questionable expenses. Everybody but a
           | few left. The founders sold their main product for cheap to
           | some private equity firm, focused on a crappy internal tool
           | they built and they used their last money to hire a literal
           | army of sales people.
           | 
           | These sales guys were apparently amazing and somehow managed
           | to sell the tool to a bunch of fortune 500 companies and are
           | now making bank.
           | 
           | The main product they sold? It's still on life support, the
           | original buyer just sold it to another holding.
        
           | tuhins wrote:
           | I was one of them! Joined on August 5, 2012, got 0.5% of
           | equity (I think?), it all went to more-or-less zero
           | monetarily. I don't think most of us really hold any grudges
           | against Sahil here. It was a very fun place to work, and I
           | met some of my closest friends and made some of my strongest
           | professional connections there. It was net-very-positive to
           | my life and career, and I think we were all adults when we
           | were opting-in to the experience.
           | 
           | As for Sahil/Gumroad making money and growing. Meh. He's
           | worked on it for 13 years and showing dedication beyond what
           | I would have for most things. It's fine.
        
       | turnsout wrote:
       | I looked for a blog post announcing this, and couldn't find it.
       | But Antiwork's Github profile mentions:                 >
       | Antiwork emerged from Gumroad's mission to automate repetitive
       | tasks. In 2025, we're taking a bold step by open-sourcing our
       | entire suite of tools that helped run and scale Gumroad. We
       | believe in making powerful automation accessible to everyone.
       | 
       | That's pretty wild! I've always loved Gumroad's simplicity for
       | creators and buyers. Now I guess people will have a pretty
       | compelling option when searching "Gumroad open source
       | alternative"
        
         | Brosper wrote:
         | it's basicly free development
        
         | ge96 wrote:
         | Here I was thinking it was the subreddit
        
       | noname120 wrote:
       | Any idea what the motivation could be?
        
         | verghese wrote:
         | Gumroad's journey has been interesting:
         | https://sahillavingia.com/reflecting -> Billion dollar journey
         | with VC backing to Kleiner selling back their stake to Gumroad
         | for $1, which enabled Sahil to steer the company in a different
         | direction.
         | 
         | Perhaps the shift to making the source available has more to do
         | with work culture: https://sahillavingia.com/work
        
         | jslakro wrote:
         | Sahil anticipates AI will significantly commoditize software.
         | Especially following DeepSeek's impact. He has promoted Devin
         | via twitter and likely aims to position Gumroad as the leading
         | creator-focused alternative to traditional Open Source
         | e-commerce platforms.
        
         | geenat wrote:
         | https://x.com/shl/status/1908146557708362188
         | 
         | Probably not entirely, but straight from the author.
        
           | spiffyk wrote:
           | Can't help but notice he's basically knowingly "donating" the
           | code to multi-billion corporations to train their LLMs on
           | (while in general those same corporations source their
           | training data in ethically questionable ways), while mere
           | mortal human individuals and small businesses are bound by a
           | non-free license. An interesting decision to say the least.
        
             | s17n wrote:
             | i mean... what would any "mere mortals" use the code for
             | other than to directly compete with Gumroad?
        
       | fbn79 wrote:
       | License is very limiting for Business
        
         | arielcostas wrote:
         | Yeah, it's more of a "source available" than Open Source in its
         | definition. I'd rather they use AGPL or something like that.
        
           | graemep wrote:
           | To put it another way they want to call it open source
           | without actually being open source.
        
             | notpushkin wrote:
             | I don't think they actually call it open source themselves
             | - rather, the HN poster made a (probably benign) mistake.
        
               | ecedeno wrote:
               | The founder does. See:
               | https://x.com/shl/status/1908090697984426227
        
               | notpushkin wrote:
               | Yikes :-(
        
               | gcau wrote:
               | It's not a mistake because someone doesn't subscribe to
               | the same definition as you. There are 2 widely competing
               | definitions that are both perfectly valid, if you want to
               | be more specific you can say "not OSI approved" to more
               | accurately reflect what you're talking about, if you
               | don't want to do that then you can understand how others
               | feel.
        
         | ZeroTalent wrote:
         | Use the source as inspiration and create something new in a
         | more modern language/framework.
        
           | rustc wrote:
           | It would be a bad idea to read any of this code if you're
           | working on a competitor based on the license terms.
        
         | Timshel wrote:
         | While limiting, it's not atrocious:
         | 
         | >You may use the software under this license only if (1) your
         | company has less than 1 million USD (2024) total revenue in the
         | prior tax year, and less than 10 million USD (2024) GMV (Gross
         | Merchandise Value), or (2) you are a non-profit organization or
         | government entity.
        
           | handfuloflight wrote:
           | So if it someone uses this software to build a $10M GMV per
           | annum business, it's completely unclear the pounds of flesh
           | Gumroad et. al will want as their cut.
        
             | Timshel wrote:
             | Yes but before you reach this point you probably have a bit
             | of time to start discussing with them ?
        
               | eemil wrote:
               | By the time licensing becomes relevant, your business is
               | built around the platform and this gives Gumroad an
               | unreasonable advantage in any negotiations. Imagine what
               | they could say:
               | 
               | - You're now a competitor. Stop using our software (you
               | can still sell on gumroad.com, hint hint)
               | 
               | - Give us 20% for 1 year (next year, who knows...)
               | 
               | - We won't give you a license, but we'll buy you out for
               | next to nothing.
        
               | rustc wrote:
               | And at that point they can ask for anything because the
               | alternative would be rewriting all your code.
        
         | RobotToaster wrote:
         | Yeah, it's not open source, the licence violates point five of
         | the OSD https://opensource.org/osd
        
           | snvzz wrote:
           | It's also not Free Software, as it also violates the Free
           | Software definition[0].
           | 
           | 0. https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.en.html
        
             | Tomte wrote:
             | Of course. Has anyone ever found a case of a license that
             | not one or the other?
             | 
             | The Free Software Definition and the Open Source Definition
             | are structured differently, but pretty obviously map from
             | one to another.
        
               | desdenova wrote:
               | There's plenty of OSD licenses that don't fit the FSD,
               | but a free software license is necessarily open source,
               | so the opposite can't happen.
        
               | singpolyma3 wrote:
               | No there cannot be an OSD license that violates the FSD
        
               | lolinder wrote:
               | GNU has a helpful chart where they clearly show that
               | there is a sliver of "nonfree open source" licenses that
               | are available [0].
               | 
               | > The term "open source" software is used by some people
               | to mean more or less the same category as free software.
               | It is not exactly the same class of software: they accept
               | some licenses that we consider too restrictive, and there
               | are free software licenses they have not accepted.
               | However, the differences in extension of the category are
               | small: we know of only a few cases of source code that is
               | open source but not free.
               | 
               | I was able to find one example, the NASA Open Source
               | Agreement, which is accepted by the OSI [1] but rejected
               | by the FSF [2]:
               | 
               | > The NASA Open Source Agreement, version 1.3, is not a
               | free software license because it includes a provision
               | requiring changes to be your "original creation". Free
               | software development depends on combining code from third
               | parties, and the NASA license doesn't permit this.
               | 
               | [0] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/categories.html
               | 
               | [1] https://opensource.org/license/nasa1-3-php
               | 
               | [2] https://www.gnu.org/licenses/license-list.html#NASA
        
               | singpolyma3 wrote:
               | Guarantee that all "nonfree open source" is different
               | readings. Take the NASA case. If youu read it as strictly
               | as Stallman does then it violates the OSD also. The
               | people at OSI at the time it was submitted read it more
               | like a lawyer and decided it was compliant. Possibly
               | today's OSI would disagree. Possibly tomorrow's FSF would
               | agree. It's not a difference between free software and
               | open source but a difference between how two sets of
               | humans interpreted the text of the license.
        
               | lolinder wrote:
               | Which point of the OSD would be violated by the NASA
               | clause if read the same way that the FSF reads it?
        
               | singpolyma3 wrote:
               | OSD 3
               | 
               | And possibly 9
        
               | Tomte wrote:
               | I'd really be interested in an example of such a license.
               | Where is the difference in the two definitions?
        
               | lolinder wrote:
               | Not OP, but I linked to some details here:
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43581484
               | 
               | The NASA Open Source Agreement is the one I found.
        
               | Tomte wrote:
               | Thank you!
        
         | captn3m0 wrote:
         | > You may use the software under this license only if (1) your
         | company has less than 1 million USD (2024) total revenue in the
         | prior tax year, and less than 10 million USD (2024) GMV (Gross
         | Merchandise Value), or (2) you are a non-profit organization or
         | government entity. Adjust the revenue threshold for inflation
         | according to the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics'
         | consumer price index for all urban consumers, U.S. city
         | average, for all items, not seasonally adjusted, 1982-1984=100
         | reference base.
        
         | WhyNotHugo wrote:
         | Even more so for individuals.
        
       | ErrorNoBrain wrote:
       | I love how nothing in the readme tells me what it actually is.
        
         | StrandedKitty wrote:
         | > Sell your stuff. See what sticks.
         | 
         | Presumably an online shop with smart analytics.
        
           | input_sh wrote:
           | I wouldn't really call it a traditional online shop, more
           | like a file shop. They don't sell anything physical, only
           | digital. If you've created a file on your computer that other
           | people want, you can sell it on Gumroad. Depending on what
           | you're trying to sell, there might be a better platform for
           | the purpose (like Bandcamp for music), but Gumroad is the
           | only one I'm aware of that's intentionally generic to fit
           | many purposes (even if imperfectly).
           | 
           | They also don't do shit like putting DRM on ebooks and you
           | can set the minimum price to zero to turn it into a tipping
           | platform (free download, but with an optional payment).
        
             | rchaud wrote:
             | > They don't sell anything physical, only digital.
             | 
             | Depends on the seller. I have a self-published physical
             | magazine I distribute through Gumroad:
             | https://www.glidermag.com/
        
       | _joel wrote:
       | An ecommerce platform designed to allow creators to sell to
       | users.. apparently. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumroad
        
         | soco wrote:
         | Which also dropped Android support, so I dropped them.
        
           | rchaud wrote:
           | Web app works fine. I'm an Android user, I sell through
           | Gumroad and it's never occurred to me to download a native
           | app that offers no functionality beyond what's already on the
           | website. Sale notifications go to my email, as they should.
        
       | clcaev wrote:
       | Could we please change the title to say : "Gumroad is source
       | available"?
       | 
       | This license is clearly fails OSD and is not open source by the
       | industry standard; perpetuating a false statement is unhelpful.
       | 
       | https://opensource.org/osd
        
         | runningmike wrote:
         | So true. A very misleading title. This license is far away of
         | any approved OSI or FSF Foss license. Gumroad is a great
         | service, the value is imho not in the software. But in the
         | execution of it's mission and the very simple way to lower the
         | bar to sell digital goods without upfront costs.
        
         | WhyNotHugo wrote:
         | The license is actually pretty restrictive: you can only use
         | this if you own a small company or work for government / non-
         | profit.
         | 
         | Most average human's (including myself) can't use the source
         | code in any way:
         | 
         | > You may use the software under this license only if (1) your
         | company has less than 1 million USD (2024) total revenue in the
         | prior tax year, and less than 10 million USD (2024) GMV (Gross
         | Merchandise Value), or (2) you are a non-profit organization or
         | government entity.
        
           | noirscape wrote:
           | The way it's been phrased, it seems like if you want to use
           | the code to run a small webshop for some goods, you can use
           | it, but if you're actively trying to run a resale platform,
           | that's when you get in trouble.
           | 
           | I don't think not being open source is that big of a deal in
           | this situation, they aren't the only player in this space
           | anyway. (Woocommerce to my knowledge still dominates the
           | "small business webshop" market and probably always will for
           | as long as the typical shared webhost webstack is still an
           | AMP stack.)
        
             | rustc wrote:
             | It's risky if you have any chance of ever crossing $1M in
             | company revenue because the license will terminate as soon
             | as you reach that and you'll have to rewrite everything.
             | 
             | > The licensor grants you a copyright license for the
             | software to do everything you might do with the software
             | that would otherwise infringe the licensor's copyright, but
             | only as long as you meet all the conditions below.
             | 
             | > You may use the software under this license only if (1)
             | your company has less than 1 million USD (2024) total
             | revenue in the prior tax year, and less than 10 million USD
             | (2024) GMV (Gross Merchandise Value), or (2) you are a non-
             | profit organization or government entity.
        
               | frainfreeze wrote:
               | To be fair, getting a platform for free that can
               | potentially bring you to $1M is a very good deal, I'm
               | quite sure you ll figure out a strategy before you get to
               | $1M, and perhaps even get a good deal on the license from
               | them. However I do think they should've been more upfront
               | about the licensing.
        
               | tyzoid wrote:
               | 1M revenue isn't that high a bar to clear in retail, just
               | takes one popular/meme product. After all the COGS/fixed
               | costs are tallied up, that could leave you with
               | significantly less with which to contemplate custom
               | development or platform changes.
        
               | 999900000999 wrote:
               | I'm sure if you're lucky to get near 1 million in revenue
               | you can reach out and pay for a license.
        
               | gamblor956 wrote:
               | You are not required to rewrite everything if you exceed
               | $1million in annual revenue. You are required to get a
               | commercial license from them, which costs money.
               | 
               | That's not the same thing. And quite frankly, if you're
               | making over $1 million in annual revenue you should be
               | able to afford the license fee for the most important
               | part of your company.
        
               | rustc wrote:
               | There's no guarantee that a commercial license will be
               | available at a reasonable fee, or available at all.
               | You'll have nothing to negotiate with because the
               | alternative is to rewrite or shut down immediately.
        
           | b3lvedere wrote:
           | Must be awesome to use this software in a country that does
           | not use the US Dollar as its currency :)
        
             | krzrak wrote:
             | let me tell you about currency exchange rates...
        
               | snadal wrote:
               | License only mentions USD. So as far as you have no USD
               | revenue, you are fine.
        
               | b3lvedere wrote:
               | Exactly :) Good luck non-US companies! :)
        
               | victorbjorklund wrote:
               | The intepretation would be done by a court. Not sure they
               | would agree that the intention was to allow unlimited
               | revenue in other currencies.
        
             | Imustaskforhelp wrote:
             | LMAO. Everybody keep quiet..... Don't let them change their
             | license.
             | 
             | And even if they change their license , we need to fork
             | this with this specific license right now!!
             | 
             | Going to fork it right now
        
             | gamblor956 wrote:
             | That's not how it works, of course.
             | 
             | It's your FX-converted revenue, meaning, whatever currency
             | you use converted to USD. The license doesn't bother to
             | state this because they assume basic common sense on the
             | part of the licensee.
             | 
             | If that's not enough, they have the backing of several
             | decades of industry practice[1] and several centuries of
             | law.
             | 
             | [1] For example, take a look at the Steam and Epic creator
             | agreements, which also use USD for financial thresholds
             | even though their stores operate in dozens of countries and
             | accept dozens of currencies.
        
           | Onavo wrote:
           | They are probably also trying to get free contributions to
           | the codebase. Gumroad is infamous for underpaying and using
           | cheap labor where possible.
        
             | dgrcode wrote:
             | > Gumroad is infamous for underpaying and using cheap labor
             | where possible.
             | 
             | What? Where do you get this from? It's quite the opposite.
        
           | reisse wrote:
           | > The license is actually pretty restrictive: you can only
           | use this if you own a small company or work for government /
           | non-profit.
           | 
           | I wonder if this can be worked around by setting up an
           | OpenAI-style non-profit arm to use Gumroad.
        
       | lionkor wrote:
       | Time to train an "LLM" on it and have it reproduce the source
       | code 1-to-1, so I can use it without a license!
        
         | noname120 wrote:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work
        
           | Imustaskforhelp wrote:
           | I think the line b/w derivative work and new work might be
           | different.
           | 
           | I mean if llms are trained on it ... and a lot of other
           | things and then LLM can output the source code from a input
           | ... then wouldn't it be open source / public domain
        
             | singpolyma3 wrote:
             | No
        
           | lionkor wrote:
           | It's only a copyright issue if I know what the original
           | source code looks like. If I don't know what it looks like,
           | and my autocomplete writes it, how could I possibly know it's
           | stolen?
        
         | singpolyma3 wrote:
         | As if any court would accept this. Nice try
        
           | yencabulator wrote:
           | OpenAI is basically betting the existence of the company on
           | that.
           | 
           | Meta is betting the existence of their Llama models on it.
        
             | foxygen wrote:
             | Except they have billions of dollars to make that bet.
        
             | singpolyma3 wrote:
             | I don't think that's true. When chatgpt generates something
             | that infringes (even on something not in the training data)
             | it is still infringement and the output cannot be used by
             | the user for anything they couldn't use the original for.
             | 
             | Luckily it doesn't do that often under normal use
        
         | hbn wrote:
         | Open sourcing my local AI model that trains on this repo and
         | codes an app based on it:                   cp -r gumroad not-
         | gumroad
        
       | TylerLives wrote:
       | I haven't followed Gumroad much, but I remember them being very
       | pro freedom and having some interesting hiring practices. IIRC
       | they were all being paid equally (based on position and hours of
       | work) and had no meetings. Now I see a Code of Conduct.
        
         | rchaud wrote:
         | They've also bumped up their fees enormously, it's 10% +
         | processing fee now, previously it was $1 flat + processing.
        
       | teekert wrote:
       | The Readme goes right to how to install it, and other than the
       | logo saying "sell your stuff, see what sticks" there is 0
       | information about what it does. Sure I can Google, but I think it
       | should be right there, at the top of the Readme.
        
         | kwanbix wrote:
         | My exact same thought.
        
         | rchaud wrote:
         | It's an ecommerce platform.
        
           | handfuloflight wrote:
           | One might prove one's intent in offering this platform for
           | actual use by others through providing some base level of
           | documentation.
        
             | tempfile wrote:
             | I don't think they do intend that. I think they intend to
             | get free contributions from keen people who think
             | erroneously they're contributing to a public good.
        
               | handfuloflight wrote:
               | Agreed. Their 'no full time employees' philosophy would
               | be consistent with that: https://sahillavingia.com/work
        
         | TheRealDunkirk wrote:
         | I had no idea, and I've been a "Rails guy" for 15 years, and
         | keenly interested in high-profile successful Ruby projects for
         | a long time. Even clicking through to their actual site from
         | the source repo page, I had to surmise what it was.
        
         | joelhaasnoot wrote:
         | The license is also not front and center
        
         | swyx wrote:
         | god we are so spoiled. this is a successful, pretty well known
         | commercial project. it's now source available. you have plenty
         | of resources to get context in 2 minutes. lets appreciate the
         | big stuff, have some agency for the rest.
         | 
         | usually if the project comes with a big lengthy beautiful
         | readme thats actually a contra indicator that the thing is a
         | production repo
        
           | ziddoap wrote:
           | > _god we are so spoiled._
           | 
           | Is it really "spoiled" to say it'd be convenient for maybe a
           | one-liner at the top of the file that's supposed to explain
           | stuff about the project?
           | 
           | > _you have plenty of resources to get context in 2 minutes._
           | 
           | I always laugh a little bit at this line of thinking. Whoever
           | wrote the readme can spend 2 minutes to write a line or two
           | about the project, or the potentially thousands of people who
           | want information about the project can spend 2 minutes to
           | look it up. It makes a lot more sense to spend 2 minutes vs.
           | 2000 minutes.
           | 
           | In the end, for me, it's not a big deal to spend the 2
           | minutes. But sometimes I like to think a little bit bigger
           | than just myself.
        
             | wutwutwat wrote:
             | Top right of the page it says
             | 
             | > About
             | 
             | > gumroad.com
             | 
             | pretty much sums up the contents of the repo. If someone
             | can't be bothered to check out gumroad.com there's no
             | amount of documentation that will help them.
        
               | ziddoap wrote:
               | gumroad.com does not say what it does. It's a list of
               | products being sold. You have to navigate to the About
               | page, then scroll about 1/4 of the way until you can get
               | an idea of what it is.
               | 
               | Is it hard? No, of course not. It's like a minute or two.
               | But it's a minute or two _for lots of people_ vs. a
               | minute or two _for one person, once_.
               | 
               | But yeah, I totally get it, why would I waste 2 minutes
               | of my time when I can have a bunch of other people waste
               | 2 minutes of their time instead.
        
           | taikahessu wrote:
           | I was also wondering what this was about. Should I care and
           | why?
           | 
           | It's not only that I don't want to, but literally can't use
           | extra 2 minutes for _every_ link I open while browsing news
           | sites. And that attention span window is only getting
           | shorter.
           | 
           | It's definitely not the first or last time for github repo
           | not using the best real estate they have in "selling" their
           | product.
        
             | Tomte wrote:
             | > but literally can't use extra 2 minutes for _every_ link
             | I open while browsing news sites
             | 
             | The expectation to open every link may be the real issue.
             | If the title and Readme don't speak to you, just let it be.
             | You will always miss out on most things on the Internet.
        
               | dragonwriter wrote:
               | "I can't afford to spend 2 extra minutes for every link I
               | open on news sites" does not mean "I expect to open every
               | link that exists on the news sites I visit".
        
         | foxygen wrote:
         | Did you open a PR or something?
        
       | Imustaskforhelp wrote:
       | Dear SHL , Please truly open source this. I personally wouldn't
       | mind AGPL but would still much prefer MIT Thanks.
        
         | echelon wrote:
         | There's no way he's going to do that. The leverage and market
         | advantage would evaporate.
        
           | Imustaskforhelp wrote:
           | Well. Any suggestions please?
           | 
           | Though technically I don't mind it , its still great he
           | source availabled it
           | 
           | I am probably not going to reach 1 mln $ sales but still man
           | if I do , then I probably want some grace period and I mean
           | ....
        
           | deanc wrote:
           | It's in fact the market position (leader) that gives them the
           | advantage here, not the code.
        
       | prakashn27 wrote:
       | What is the use of this opensurce when you have a strict license
       | ?
        
         | DetroitThrow wrote:
         | It's a careless and sloppy marketing job by someone who wants
         | to reframe the definition of open source for the millionth
         | time, unfortunately.
        
       | udev4096 wrote:
       | What a joke of a license. This is not open source. Why the fuck
       | is everyone in VC land trying to change the true definition of
       | open source?
        
         | cjpearson wrote:
         | For what it's worth Gumroad left VC land several years ago.
         | 
         | https://sahillavingia.com/reflecting
        
         | tempfile wrote:
         | The definition of open source is itself a corruption of free
         | software which came before it, and was corrupted by the same
         | people.
        
         | XCSme wrote:
         | Most of the VC open-source projects use open-source as a lead
         | magnet/marketing tactic only, with no intention or desire of
         | wanting people to actually use the software.
        
           | diggan wrote:
           | There is a distinction between those companies who actually
           | license their stuff under FOSS licenses, but use it to get
           | more marketing/contributors/whatever, and what companies like
           | Meta are doing today, which is calling something "open
           | source" in their marketing material, but if you read the
           | terms and conditions, they call it "proprietary" instead and
           | comes with lots of restrictions that aren't compatible with
           | FOSS.
           | 
           | One is a marketing tactic, the other one is outright
           | misleading.
        
           | preisschild wrote:
           | Yep. Bait & Switch. Which is exactly why you shouldn't
           | contribute to open source projects that require a CLA.
        
         | openthc wrote:
         | Which is super bullshit; cause now offering open source
         | solutions many folk see it as a trick!
        
         | graypegg wrote:
         | The licensor grants you a copyright license for the software to
         | do everything you might do with the software that would
         | otherwise infringe the licensor's copyright, but only as long
         | as you meet all the conditions below.
         | 
         | Am I going insane, or is there a reading of this that seems to
         | imply you can use the software, to infringe on ANY work Gumroad
         | has created? "...grants you a copyright license for the
         | software" seems to imply it's talking about this software
         | license only, but the second part mentions "licensor's
         | copyright" which seems to not be defined, nor bounded. There's
         | no mention of a copyright *for the software*... just the
         | copyright license to use the software that allows you to
         | infringe all copyrights from Gumroad.
         | 
         | I think they probably meant                   The licensor
         | grants you a copyright license for the software to do
         | everything you might do with the software that would otherwise
         | infringe the licensor's copyright [to the software], but only
         | as long as you meet all the conditions below.
         | 
         | I wonder if you can just reuse text or images from their
         | corporate website as long as you personally make less than 1M$
         | a year, use their software and don't infringe their trademarks.
         | 
         | Awful license on multiple levels.
        
           | DetroitThrow wrote:
           | No you're not insane, it's much harder to follow than most
           | source available licenses I've seen.
        
         | jhanschoo wrote:
         | I think this reaction is misdirected. Yes, the license is
         | restrictive, but Gumroad doesn't seem to be claiming themselves
         | that the code is open source. I think OP made a mistake out of
         | ignorance and said that it was open source.
        
           | rustc wrote:
           | The founder of Gumroad _is_ claiming that [1].
           | 
           | > 14 years ago, Gumroad launched
           | 
           | > Today, Gumroad goes open-source
           | 
           | [1]: https://x.com/shl/status/1908090697984426227
        
             | jhanschoo wrote:
             | Thanks, this is new to me and not something I could infer
             | from OP's link.
        
               | accoil wrote:
               | I think the original title for this submission also
               | called it open source:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43580533
        
               | jhanschoo wrote:
               | Yes indeed, but OP is not Gumroad.
        
         | pseudalopex wrote:
         | > Why the fuck is everyone in VC land trying to change the true
         | definition of open source?
         | 
         | They want the marketing benefits without the costs.
        
       | quest88 wrote:
       | Wow, I remember their offices next to Thee Parkside on 17th.
        
       | ingen0s wrote:
       | nice work, you forgot to remove your API key tho
        
       | nticompass wrote:
       | I saw this title and thought "the Australian craigslist is open
       | source?" Then I realized I was confusing Gumroad and Gumtree.
        
       | Multiplayer wrote:
       | I'm reading a lot of complaints here but let's recognize some
       | interesting aspects that Sahil is talking about: 1. It's the 5th
       | largest rails codebase open to AI ingestion. 2. They are offering
       | bounties for issues. Not large bounties but whatever, it's
       | something.
       | 
       | I personally like rails and would love to see AI tools improve
       | with it. No idea if this code base will really help that, and
       | when but it can't hurt. In my experience I can get next apps up
       | in a jiffy but rails is much more of a struggle. If anyone has
       | any tips here, please post.
       | 
       | I'm always curious about how well bounties work especially now in
       | an AI age. I wonder what the arbitrage on AI spend vs. bounty
       | will be for people that take a run at them.
        
         | irf1 wrote:
         | I run a bounties platform (https://algora.io) and I've seen
         | people who create bounties try to use some AI like Devin to
         | solve them (@seveibar livestreamed trying it) just for fun and
         | in all cases AI failed to solve the bounties.
         | 
         | A Rust project that rewarded 300+ bounties ($37k) is now
         | building an AI coding agent with the aim to solve bounties on
         | Algora - it's an interesting benchmark I guess.
         | 
         | Curious myself what the next years might look like, but from
         | everything I've seen so far we're definitely not there yet.
        
       | devops000 wrote:
       | If someone create a new business on top of this by changing
       | layout and URL routes, how are they able to identify that they
       | used this source code?
        
         | whalesalad wrote:
         | If you do it right, no one will know.
        
       | shipscode wrote:
       | It's pretty cool that this license allows you to make up to $1mm
       | revenue, at which point you can pivot and rebuild the stack. This
       | is going to be a game changer for anybody who wants to MVP an app
       | similar to Gumroad. MIT would be ideal, but I prefer this to
       | GPL's force release model.
        
       | itsthecourier wrote:
       | 004_constants.rb: =====================
       | 
       | DENYLIST = %w[ ... ladygaga kanye kanyewest randyjackson
       | mariahcarey atrak deadmau5 avicii prettylights justinbieber
       | calvinharris katyperry rihanna shakira barackobama kimkardashian
       | taylorswift taylorswift13 nickiminaj oprah jtimberlake
       | theellenshow ellen selenagomez kaka ....].freeze
       | 
       | the who is who of pop culture
        
       | itsthecourier wrote:
       | bots.rb: =========
       | 
       | BOT_MAP = { "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; cs-CZ) AppleWebKit/526.9+
       | (KHTML, like Gecko) AdobeAIR/1.5.1" => "Adobe AIR runtime",
       | "BinGet/1.00.A (http://www.bin-co.com/php/scripts/load/)" =>
       | "BinGet", "Chilkat/1.0.0
       | (+http://www.chilkatsoft.com/ChilkatHttpUA.asp)" => "Chilkat HTTP
       | .NET", "curl/7.15.1 (x86_64-suse-linux) libcurl/7.15.1
       | OpenSSL/0.9.8a zlib/1.2.3 libidn/0.6.0" => "cURL", ...
       | 
       | cool list
        
       | tomhow wrote:
       | Related post:
       | 
       | https://danb.me/blog/gumroad-is-not-open-source/
        
       | jvns wrote:
       | I tried to grep the code for `api.` to get a sense for all the
       | vendors this codebase is using, and which you'd need to have
       | relationships with to run the code. Here's what I found:
       | 
       | payments:                 https://api.paypal.com
       | https://api.stripe.com
       | 
       | tax stuff:                 https://api.taxjar.com
       | https://api.vatstack.com (EU VAT)
       | https://apiservices.iras.gov.sg
       | 
       | for iOS app (?):
       | https://api.appstoreconnect.apple.com
       | https://api.storekit.itunes.apple
       | 
       | AI stuff:                 https://api.iffy.com  (AI content
       | moderation)       https://api.helper.ai (AI support)
       | https://api.openai.com
       | 
       | other:                 https://api.easypost.com  (shipping
       | labels?)       https://api.sendgrid.com (email)
       | https://api.pwnedpasswords.com (haveibeenpwned)
       | https://api.worldbank.org (for purchasing power parity?)
       | https://api.dropboxapi.com (for "upload from dropbox"?)
        
         | ricardobeat wrote:
         | That's pretty refreshing compared to the average 400 external
         | "partners" your average online t-shirt store has.
        
           | rafram wrote:
           | Most of those are probably indirect. Same here: Stripe
           | doesn't issue credit cards or even process transactions
           | itself. It partners with a half-dozen or so credit card
           | networks, and each network partners with thousands of banks
           | around the world.
        
       | caycep wrote:
       | is this the company where the CEO/ex CEO is trying to rejigger
       | the VA?
       | 
       | https://www.wired.com/story/doge-department-of-veterans-affa...
        
         | solarmist wrote:
         | No, where'd you get that impression?
        
           | caycep wrote:
           | see article above
           | 
           | ----- "These DOGE operatives appear to have no work
           | experience that's remotely close to the VA in terms of its
           | scale or complexity. The VA administers all the government
           | benefits afforded to veterans and their families for roughly
           | 10 million people, including education, loans, disability
           | payments, and health care. Lavingia is the CEO of Gumroad, a
           | platform that helps creatives sell their work and takes a cut
           | of each sale. More recently, according to his blog, Lavingia
           | launched Flexile, a tool to manage and pay contractors.
           | According to his LinkedIn profile, Lavingia was the second
           | employee at Pinterest, which he left in 2011 to found
           | Gumroad. Lavingia is also an angel investor in other startups
           | via SHL Capital, which backed Clubhouse and Lambda School,
           | among others."
        
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