[HN Gopher] How Google built its Gemini robotics models
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       How Google built its Gemini robotics models
        
       Author : simonpure
       Score  : 102 points
       Date   : 2025-04-02 14:47 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.google)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.google)
        
       | dachworker wrote:
       | The "how" is completely missing, but if they can get this to work
       | semi reliably it will be ChatGPT x100 in terms of impact.
        
         | WXLCKNO wrote:
         | I had never heard of Unitree (Chinese robotics company) before
         | today. A lot of their videos look like CGI but apparently the
         | product is real.
         | 
         | What stuck with me the most browsing their website on the G1
         | model was seeing "Price from $16k"
         | 
         | Now I'm not sure if these are actually purchasable or what the
         | value would be, but it's my first time seeing an actual normal-
         | ish price attached to a humanoid robot that seems to be for
         | sale.
         | 
         | With the rate of advancement we're seeing across the board, it
         | honestly feels like people will have robot assistants at home
         | much sooner than I thought.
        
           | jsight wrote:
           | TBH, I still wonder if some of their videos are CGI. They
           | offer real versions for sale, but they seem to be
           | significantly more limited than the videos imply.
           | 
           | Have they actually demonstrated the more dramatic stuff at
           | any in-person demos?
        
           | Balmbli wrote:
           | I'm really shocked tbh.
           | 
           | I can't imagine the progression of ai and in particular
           | robots but I assumed that the first robot would cost min 6
           | figures if not 7 but would still be worth it due to 24*7 and
           | initial invest vs long term.
           | 
           | But the fact how good Gemini robotics is already and how
           | cheap the first models are I do believe what will hinder us
           | more than tech is people learning about it, testing it out
           | and doing it but not technology.
           | 
           | I believe the world will look relevant different in 10 years.
        
           | DoctorDabadedoo wrote:
           | Take any of these videos with a grain of salt.
           | 
           | In demos these robots only need to do well once and it can
           | take hours to record.
           | 
           | In real life, a failure rate of 80% is unnacceptable, but
           | perfectly fine to edit out in the final cut media.
           | 
           | I hope they do well, this area is incredibly hard, but it
           | will take a lot more than what people imagine.
        
             | namaria wrote:
             | This whole hype cycle man. It's all shiny demos and no real
             | products.
        
           | noosphr wrote:
           | >A lot of their videos look like CGI but apparently the
           | product is real.
           | 
           | I bought their robot dog as part of a project to build
           | embodied AI models back in 2022.
           | 
           | Their SDK was far more open than anything else on the market
           | and the stock firmware was on par with competitors, this
           | includes products that were x10 the price.
           | 
           | The robot itself scared dogs in the park, but kids loved it.
           | At $3k it's on par with a mid range drone and quite fun to
           | hack on.
        
             | SirYandi wrote:
             | Same price as some pure bred dogs too
        
           | ecesena wrote:
           | The humanoid is $20k-ish without hands. Each hand currently
           | costs another $20k (and not sure if these are available to
           | everyone or only for research).
        
         | MPSFounder wrote:
         | I am hoping they keep lots of their work open source. This is
         | especially the case since hardware would be too expensive for
         | competition to pull off, but it would be interesting to see how
         | they circumvented some problems
        
         | exe34 wrote:
         | it's a common trope in blogs - "how we did X" means "we did X,
         | it's a good thing, we're great people", etc.
        
       | cozyman wrote:
       | just curious, what would it do if you asked it to kill someone?
       | does it follow the laws of robotics?
        
         | cannonpr wrote:
         | Usually when someone brings up the laws of robotics I like to
         | point out that they were mostly designed as an interesting
         | example as to how direct instructions that seem clear to people
         | would mostly result in perverse instantiation of AI especially
         | if the AI lacked an emotional/contextual subsystem. They were
         | also written to make for interesting scifi books.
        
         | LeoPanthera wrote:
         | Asimov's laws of robotics would not, and cannot, work in real
         | life because terms like "harm," "human being," and "inaction"
         | are highly subjective and context-dependent. There are entire
         | novels about how the interaction between the hierarchical laws
         | have unexpected outcomes.
         | 
         | They're a narrative device. Not practical instructions.
        
           | cozyman wrote:
           | interesting, thanks.
        
           | anon84873628 wrote:
           | Put another way, impossible to program if you wanted to.
           | These are highly abstract concepts that only manifest at the
           | highest level of cognition. The governance module would need
           | to be programmed at that same level using those tokens, but
           | that doesn't seem to be how things are shaping up to work.
           | Instead we start with low level programming that learns and
           | builds up concepts on top.
           | 
           | Essentially you would need some sort of independent
           | adversarial sidecar mind that monitors the robot's actions at
           | a high level. And that just kicks the can down the road a
           | bit.
        
             | sdenton4 wrote:
             | Some kind of governor module to keep our security cyborgs
             | in line...
        
           | lugu wrote:
           | Judgement is needed but don't we have machines able to make
           | (imperfect) judgements? I can chat with your favorite LLM
           | their opinion on how to respect the spirit of the 3 laws on
           | various situations. Not sure why it cannot work.
        
       | harmmonica wrote:
       | Even if Google's robotics technology (software and hardware) is
       | leading edge does anyone think they'll actually be able to
       | productize it? Seems similar to how they were the pre-product
       | leaders in transformers and then fumbled any advantage they had
       | to ChatGPT. It seems like something's missing from Google where
       | they can't get from research to product effectively. Waymo
       | perhaps a good counterexample if you think where they are today
       | is product/market fit, but I can't shake the feeling that Google
       | more often than not can't seem to get things to market or even if
       | they do they give up on them before they take hold.
       | 
       | Just wondering if anyone has a strong feeling or, better yet,
       | insight on this regarding their robotics efforts.
        
         | MPSFounder wrote:
         | I agree. The current leadership of Google (especially Sundar)
         | is mediocre and comes from a consulting background. They will
         | fail at making a tangible product out of this, similar to glass
         | or Inbox or a multitude of other examples. This is particularly
         | sad, as I know a few remarkable engineers at Google that share
         | this frustration. However, Google's leadership folded to Indian
         | managers and is now run as a circus
        
           | meta_ai_x wrote:
           | Sundar Pichai got into IIT Kharagpur in the 90s (one of the
           | toughest engineering/technical school to get into). So he has
           | more technical chops than many self-proclaimed engineers that
           | seem to diss on his McKinsey credentials
        
             | MPSFounder wrote:
             | A school being tough to get into due to an abundance of
             | population (too many applicants) means little. There has
             | been not one significant person coming out of those
             | institutions (compared to the many figures coming out of
             | the US, despite a population 5x smaller). I would not hire
             | Sundar as a junior engineer in my team. Of course, you
             | might see something in Google's current leadership which I
             | do not see. Time will tell how performant the company will
             | be long term. Again, I believe skills that make one
             | successful in consulting rarely translate to success in the
             | engineering field.
        
               | cma wrote:
               | > There has been not one significant person coming out of
               | those institutions
               | 
               | Of the IITs?
               | 
               | Co-founders of Sun Microsystems, Flipkart, Ola Cabs,
               | Infosys, Zoho, HCL
        
               | financltravsty wrote:
               | The only one significant is Khosla of Sun. The rest
               | are... rehashes of Western companies without a shred of
               | innovation or doing anything novel.
        
         | seatac76 wrote:
         | I think the cautious faction of AI debate won temporarily
         | inside Google, letting OpenAI take the lead. Lessons should be
         | learnt from that experience. I do think Google will come out
         | ahead in the end Gemini and Gemma are great models.
         | 
         | Let's see what Google I/O shows of this year, product
         | application matters now that they have caught up on the tech
         | side.
        
           | harmmonica wrote:
           | Will be interesting to see if that lesson has been learned.
           | There's no existing product they could cannibalize with their
           | robotics effort (vs search with LLMs) so any caution they
           | have launching a robotics product would solely come down to
           | fears about quality/safety.
        
         | zeroq wrote:
         | In my bubble it's general consensus that Google - as we knew it
         | - is done.
         | 
         | Sergiej and Larry phased out and what is left is more of less a
         | headless chicken, too big too fall, but without any clear
         | direction and goal.
        
           | jeffbee wrote:
           | At least you are aware that this is a bubble.
        
           | cma wrote:
           | Didn't Sergey become active again with the latest AI efforts?
        
           | harmmonica wrote:
           | Is this actually true about Larry and Sergei? A substantial
           | amount of their net worths is still tied up in Google stock.
           | I realize not all centibillionaires are cut from the same
           | cloth, but still find it hard to believe they wouldn't be
           | majorly involved since the downside of a major stock drop
           | would impact them disproportionately. That said they could be
           | the types of billionaires who actually think they have enough
           | even if their net worths were "only" in the tens of billions
           | (a long ways to go down from where they are today).
           | 
           | As for headless chicken, I feel similarly, but then I sort of
           | see a path where they have defensible businesses in YouTube
           | and maybe GCP, and then Waymo and robotics as green field
           | upside, so that even if they don't end up with material
           | market share with the "software-only" side of AI, and search
           | gets further and further eroded, they could still be a
           | formidable player.
           | 
           | Ultimately I do think their best days are behind them largely
           | because they can't seem to turn the work of their talented
           | engineers into great new products.
        
           | fumar wrote:
           | What is your bubble?
        
       | lima wrote:
       | They can do _that_ , yet somehow, Gemini Assistant on Pixel
       | phones still fails to reliably set timers or add shopping list
       | items :-)
       | 
       | (which worked fine with Google Assistant)
        
         | _the_inflator wrote:
         | Bring up dates and times if you want to wreak havoc on any AI.
         | :D
         | 
         | Developers around the world's most beloved topic, how to handle
         | date and time correctly, is still a topic of great
         | misunderstanding. AI and AI agents are no different from that.
         | LLM seems to help a little, but only if you know what you are
         | doing, as it usually needs to be the case.
         | 
         | Some things won't change so fast; at one point or another, data
         | must match certain building blocks.
        
           | droopyEyelids wrote:
           | One would think the arcana of time zones and the occasional
           | leap second would not interfere with an individual setting
           | egg timers often enough to become a burden
        
           | pixl97 wrote:
           | People ask why AI will exterminate human kind.
           | 
           | The answer is because we wouldn't universally adopt zulu
           | time.
        
         | namaria wrote:
         | My own hands and cheap alarm clocks, or a piece of paper, have
         | been working reliably for several decades. They also don't stop
         | working when a corporation decides they want to hype something.
        
       | otherayden wrote:
       | It's terrifying to think that robots like this will probably be
       | used in the defense industry at some point. If the robot
       | understands something as general as "put the erasers away",
       | imagine "kill all enemies".
        
         | umeshunni wrote:
         | Whenever I watch videos of robot dogs climbing all terrains
         | (e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AS1n99yruVU), I'm
         | convinced that half of these robotics companies are defense
         | funded, whether in the US or China.
        
       | free652 wrote:
       | April 1st!
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-04-02 23:00 UTC)