[HN Gopher] Vets Who Code
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Vets Who Code
Author : mooreds
Score : 43 points
Date : 2025-03-31 09:59 UTC (2 days ago)
(HTM) web link (vetswhocode.io)
(TXT) w3m dump (vetswhocode.io)
| the__alchemist wrote:
| Tangent: I would love to see the US gov and military take coding
| seriously _internally_. It 's nearly all outsourced to
| contractors, and the software is usually slow and buggy. I built
| some tools while in, but it was all bro-level.
| pc86 wrote:
| The military could fix this internally if they wanted to. There
| are plenty of people who can write good code and don't mind
| doing push-ups and going to the range as well.
|
| Dotgov is a lot harder. Salaries are artificially capped very
| low, and even one of these horrific contracting body shops will
| pay you 30% more than you'd make in the government, and you
| don't need to deal with all the bullshit that comes with
| working for the government.
| dhosek wrote:
| It's all part of an ideological attempt to stymie the ability
| of government to work effectively and then point to how
| government doesn't work effectively to justify funneling
| money to politically connected contractors. It's the modern
| version of patronage except that instead of getting jobs for
| the people in your clan, you get massive contracts for your
| donors which can be structured so that they'll still be
| making money even if you don't win re-election.
| pc86 wrote:
| I'll be honest this "conservatives hate the government so
| they don't fund it then they point to how bad it is as an
| excuse to cut it further" seems tautological and pretty
| intellectually lazy.
|
| I've contracted onsite for both state and federal
| governments. Government employees have a reputation for...
| let's just say not hardest working. That didn't come out of
| nowhere.
| freedomben wrote:
| Of course there are some people like that, but if what you
| say were true I would expect to see wages go up
| significantly under the Blue Team and then fall back to low
| levels under the Red Team, yet that doesn't tend to happen.
| My whole life it's been consistently true that government
| salaries are much lower, but some people take them because
| they offer a lot of stability, great benefits, and often a
| pretty easy/laidback job compared to private industry.
| psunavy03 wrote:
| The trouble is that outside things like CYBERCOM and the NSA,
| it's hard to pitch a use case for people in uniform to be
| slinging code. If anything, that just makes
| cybersecurity/counterintelligence harder, because you have a
| bunch of those bro-level apps running around, potentially
| poorly-built and secured by amateur coders. There's not much
| more justification for people in uniform building software
| tools than there is having them design and build artillery guns
| or transport jets. Better to buy those from industry and train
| folks in uniform to use them.
|
| I don't disagree with how horrible a lot of DOD software is,
| but that's more an artifact of the broken military procurement
| process combined with the often-childish attitudes people in
| tech have about working with the military.
| pc86 wrote:
| People in the military have normal jobs, not everyone is out
| in the field sending rounds downrange all the time.
|
| There is no reason that one of those jobs can't be "software
| engineer." There is nothing intrinsic about the military that
| would make them "amateur coders."
| psunavy03 wrote:
| I'm well aware that not everyone is a trigger-puller; I had
| a twenty-year active and reserve career. Sure, you could
| technically have a software development MOS/NEC/AFSC. The
| Navy recently stood up a "robotics warfare specialist"
| rating.
|
| My point is that, having spent a full career in, the "buy
| vs. build" calculus for military software tends to fall on
| the side of "buy" for any number of reasons. Those people
| who aren't "out in the field sending rounds downrange" are
| still doing plenty of other things in their assigned fields
| other than writing software. If you think there needs to be
| a software development career track in uniform, you need to
| be able to justify it outside the obvious places like
| CYBERCOM or the NSA.
| freedomben wrote:
| > _There 's not much more justification for people in uniform
| building software tools than there is having them design and
| build artillery guns or transport jets._
|
| Yes exactly. I don't have much to add but that was such a
| great point I wanted to emphasize it.
|
| Also important to consider that as wasteful and expensive as
| it is to have contractors build stuff, there's at least
| important market functions in there doing _some_ things and
| the contractor can be held accountable.
| freedomben wrote:
| Oh they definitely have, and likely continue to re-evaluate
| periodically. They've even done a lot of tests and such to
| determine feasibility. Unfortunately the costs tend to balloon
| when done internally, and the quality is not necessarily
| better.
| torstenvl wrote:
| Love this idea.
|
| Rightly or wrongly, people judge based on first impressions, and
| your landing page can cause frustration. First, your floating nav
| bar is huge on mobile, but nothing a zoom out can't fix. Second,
| the animated "Learn" hero isn't a constant size, causing the
| entire page to jump around while trying to read it. Again, can be
| fixed with zoom... but only with a lot of zoom, so that
| everything else is almost unreadable.
| jeromehardaway wrote:
| Appreciate the feedback. First impressions matter, and you're
| absolutely right about the mobile nav and the hero animation.
| We've got those on the list, and what's great is that a lot of
| the fixes are being handled by our troops as part of their
| hands-on learning with the resources we provide.
|
| Everything you see on the site -- from the original build to
| ongoing improvements -- has been created and maintained by
| veterans learning to code through our program. It's all part of
| the process. We don't just teach theory -- we give our troops
| real projects and real feedback to sharpen their skills.
|
| If you've got a sec, we'd really appreciate it if you could add
| this to our GitHub issues: https://github.com/Vets-Who-
| Code/vets-who-code-app/issues It gives our folks another
| opportunity to learn how to take feedback and turn it into
| action using the same tools they'll be using in the real world.
|
| Thanks again for the thoughtful input -- it genuinely helps us
| and our troops grow.
|
| -- Jerome Hardaway Founder, Vets Who Code
| mrose11 wrote:
| I made one. Hope it helps
| nonrandomstring wrote:
| Excellent initiative. It's not just code, as in development, but
| we are desperate for good people in cybersecurity who can handle
| network security, complex operational procedures, data handling
| and compartmentalisation... a good service record is literally
| worth an honours degree. And age is a _positive_ factor.
| jimmygrapes wrote:
| perhaps most importantly, the ability to grin and bear it
| the_real_cher wrote:
| I think the blend of medicine and technology is a great
| combination and definitely could be useful for a veterinarian.
| dhosek wrote:
| That was my first thought when I saw the headline. My brother
| was a veterinarian and he made some money while he was in
| college/vet school selling programs to Commodore 64 magazines
| back in the 80s (enough to pay for his computer and put away
| some cash).
| mystraline wrote:
| For people who work for the VA, this is very much a double
| entendre.
|
| If you're programming, awesome.
|
| If you're having a heart attack, I hope you get rapid response.
| jeromehardaway wrote:
| This joke passes the veteran vibe check. Only someone who is a
| vet or close to them would say something so inappropriate and
| funny.
| psunavy03 wrote:
| The struggle with dark humor in the private sector is real .
| . . along with swallowing back F-bombs.
| Malazath wrote:
| I had this thought about the years ago. While I'm not a vet, I
| have grown up and live in the Hampton Roads area - plenty of vets
| I know locally.
|
| If you ever need assistance on anything, I'd love a way to reach
| out and help any way I can.
| redeux wrote:
| I'm a vet and I code, but my god the amount of AI slop in the
| copy makes me very wary of the educational quality vets will
| receive. In order to leverage AI successfully people must learn
| that you can't just take whatever comes out of the model and call
| it good. You have to evaluate and refine it, or it all just
| becomes garbage in, garbage out. I guarantee the hero text was
| copied verbatim from an LLM - probably ChatGPT. Cool idea, but
| too many flashing warning signs for my liking.
| freedomben wrote:
| I don't disagree, but I do think it's worth considering this is
| a non-profit and the service is free. When offering such things
| you gotta be ruthlessly efficient with your time/effort. I
| would further bet that most of the target market aren't going
| to be dissuaded by the somewhat-sloppiness of the website.
| bitwize wrote:
| Everybody has access to a phenomenal, state of the art neural
| network -- it lies between their ears and sadly goes underused
| much of the time.
|
| Even if you use the electronic sort of NN, at best those are
| only good at serving as thought-provocation or inspiration for
| the one the good Lord gave you.
| ash_091 wrote:
| In my country the noun "vet" is used (more or less) exclusively
| as short for "veterinarian", and this website was briefly very
| confusing.
| Normal_gaussian wrote:
| That is true for me as well; and to make it worse I do about
| 10% of my work in the veterinary space. I was _very_ excited
| for a second.
| HiroProtagonist wrote:
| I am a vet who codes. This seems like a great initiative!
| freedomben wrote:
| I'm a vet who has been coding now for almost 20 years, and I'd be
| willing to be a mentor but unfortunately the website doesn't
| quite answer my questions. Specifically:
|
| 1. What are the duties/responsiblities of a mentor?
|
| 2. I see that the mentor will need to do 1:1s, but no indication
| of time/frequency. How often are these and how much time is
| expected of them?
| jeromehardaway wrote:
| Hey, really appreciate you taking the time to ask -- and even
| more so for being open to mentoring. Twenty years in the game
| is serious, and folks like you are exactly who our troops need.
|
| To answer your questions: 1. What mentors do Mentors help guide
| our troops through the learning and career process. That
| includes reviewing code, offering feedback, sharing your
| experience, and helping them get unstuck when they hit a wall.
| It's not about having all the answers -- it's about being
| consistent, showing up, and being real with folks trying to
| break in. 2. Time commitment + 1:1s We aim for one 1:1 per
| month per troop, but we're flexible. Most mentors give about
| 1-2 hours a week, including async stuff like reviewing PRs or
| replying in Slack. If you only have 30 minutes, we'll work with
| that. We respect your time and want this to be something
| sustainable.
|
| If you're down to talk more or need anything else cleared up,
| hit me up directly. Would love to have you on board.
| the_hoffa wrote:
| Not the parent, but thanks for answering those questions, I
| had the same ones. I'm a Vet who's been doing SE for over 20
| years as well, count me in!
| jeromehardaway wrote:
| Hey folks, thanks for the thoughtful responses and questions -- I
| really appreciate the engagement and the mix of perspectives.
|
| @torstenvl: You're absolutely right. We're already working on
| refining the mobile UX and adjusting the animations on the hero
| section so they don't cause layout shifts. Thanks for flagging
| that. Accessibility and clarity are priorities, so this feedback
| is super helpful.
|
| @ash_091 and others confused by the term "vet": Totally
| understand the cultural difference -- in the US, "vet" is
| commonly used as shorthand for "military veteran," but that isn't
| universal. We'll look at how we can make the messaging clearer,
| especially for international visitors, without losing identity.
|
| @psunavy03 and @pc86: The conversation around military coding
| careers is valid and nuanced. At Vets Who Code, we're focused on
| helping veterans after they separate, transition, or retire --
| giving them tech skills and a community so they can thrive in the
| civilian workforce. We're not advocating for in-uniform
| development to replace contractors or acquisitions but rather
| preparing folks to enter a very different kind of battlefield:
| the job market.
|
| @redeux: I hear you. You're absolutely right -- we don't promote
| copy-paste AI coding. One of our core lessons is about critical
| thinking with AI: evaluating, refining, and using it as a tool,
| not a crutch. And yes -- some placeholder copy slipped through
| the cracks during early drafts. Thanks for holding us
| accountable. We'll clean that up.
|
| Re: Mentorship Questions 1. Mentor Duties & Responsibilities
| Mentors guide one or more troops (our learners) through their
| learning journey. This includes reviewing projects, offering
| career advice, sharing lessons from your experience, and helping
| troubleshoot when someone hits a wall. You don't need to know
| everything -- just be willing to show up, support, and share
| honestly. 2. 1:1s and Time Commitment We generally aim for one
| 1:1 per month per troop. Most mentors spend about 1-2 hours a
| week, depending on availability and the needs of their mentee(s).
| We respect your time -- consistency matters more than quantity.
| If you can only give 30 minutes a week, we'll match that with the
| right person.
|
| Who We Are
|
| Vets Who Code is a nonprofit that's helped our troops land over
| $20 million in salaries in tech. We've been doing this work for
| over a decade. No fluff, no tuition, no BS. Just real training
| and support.
|
| We've been honored by: * The White House (yes, that one -- under
| President Obama) * Featured in WIRED, HuffPost, Stack Overflow,
| GitHub, and more * Invited to speak at Google I/O, Facebook F8,
| and DreamForce * Recognized as a GitHub Star, Google Developer
| Expert, and Twilio Champion
|
| This isn't a side project -- this is our mission.
|
| If you're curious, open to mentoring, or just want to help us
| improve the mission, hit me up directly or through the contact
| page. We're serious about doing right by our community.
|
| -- Jerome Hardaway Founder, Vets Who Code
| jeromehardaway wrote:
| Hey folks, thanks for the thoughtful responses and questions -- I
| really appreciate the engagement and the mix of perspectives.
|
| @torstenvl: You're absolutely right. We're already working on
| refining the mobile UX and adjusting the animations on the hero
| section so they don't cause layout shifts. Thanks for flagging
| that. Accessibility and clarity are priorities, so this feedback
| is super helpful.
|
| @ash_091 and others confused by the term "vet": Totally
| understand the cultural difference -- in the US, "vet" is
| commonly used as shorthand for "military veteran," but that isn't
| universal. We'll look at how we can make the messaging clearer,
| especially for international visitors, without losing identity.
|
| @psunavy03 and @pc86: The conversation around military coding
| careers is valid and nuanced. At Vets Who Code, we're focused on
| helping veterans after they separate, transition, or retire --
| giving them tech skills and a community so they can thrive in the
| civilian workforce. We're not advocating for in-uniform
| development to replace contractors or acquisitions but rather
| preparing folks to enter a very different kind of battlefield:
| the job market.
|
| @redeux: I hear you. You're absolutely right -- we don't promote
| copy-paste AI coding. One of our core lessons is about critical
| thinking with AI: evaluating, refining, and using it as a tool,
| not a crutch. And yes -- some placeholder copy slipped through
| the cracks during early drafts. Thanks for holding us
| accountable. We'll clean that up.
|
| Re: Mentorship Questions 1. Mentor Duties & Responsibilities
| Mentors guide one or more troops (our learners) through their
| learning journey. This includes reviewing projects, offering
| career advice, sharing lessons from your experience, and helping
| troubleshoot when someone hits a wall. You don't need to know
| everything -- just be willing to show up, support, and share
| honestly. 2. 1:1s and Time Commitment We generally aim for one
| 1:1 per month per troop. Most mentors spend about 1-2 hours a
| week, depending on availability and the needs of their mentee(s).
| We respect your time -- consistency matters more than quantity.
| If you can only give 30 minutes a week, we'll match that with the
| right person.
|
| Who We Are
|
| Vets Who Code is a nonprofit that's helped our troops land over
| $20 million in salaries in tech. We've been doing this work for
| over a decade. No fluff, no tuition, no BS. Just real training
| and support.
|
| We've been honored by: * The White House (yes, that one -- under
| President Obama) * Featured in WIRED, HuffPost, Stack Overflow,
| GitHub, and more * Invited to speak at Google I/O, Facebook F8,
| and DreamForce * Recognized as a GitHub Star, Google Developer
| Expert, and Twilio Champion
|
| If you're curious, open to mentoring, or just want to help us
| improve the mission, hit me up directly or through the contact
| page. We're serious about doing right by our community.
|
| -- Jerome Hardaway Founder, Vets Who Code
| pyjarrett wrote:
| Another great resource for vets getting started in software
| development (and other fields) is American Corporate Partners[1].
| I had a great mentor through that group.
|
| [1]: https://www.acp-usa.org/
| scrapcode wrote:
| Thanks for this. I've been dabbling with code for ~20 years,
| have the diploma and the t-shirt, but I lack the mentorship. I
| feel like it would be even more helpful in this time as I
| attempt to pivot from my general-IT career with dev as one tool
| into solely development. So, anyways, thanks for sharing
| additional resources.
| awslattery wrote:
| Vet here, who has done Grow with Google events for Veterans in
| the past, as well as currently serving as a mentor for Google
| Developer Groups in North America.
|
| Understand the drive to find Vets who want to engage with the
| demand side, but the supply side re: Become a Mentor is missing a
| lot of information: what are the expectations, time commitment,
| how to register events, is there support for events, etc.
|
| For example, I'd be happy to host events and provide a regular
| touchpoint to connect and mentor folks locally, but I've got
| another kid coming in a few months, so I'm having to be extra
| picky with my time at the moment.
| beAbU wrote:
| Veterans, not veterinarian.
| Jonovono wrote:
| Took me way too long to realize this
| bombas wrote:
| so....DEI. Got it
| mooreds wrote:
| If you are interested in learning more about the organization,
| here's an article about Jerome Hardaway, the founder:
| https://github.com/readme/stories/jerome-hardaway
|
| And here's their GitHub org: https://github.com/Vets-Who-Code
|
| Jerome also was kind enough to write a post for my Letters To a
| New Developer blog a few years ago:
| https://letterstoanewdeveloper.com/2020/09/21/youre-gonna-be...
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