[HN Gopher] The Myst Graph: A New Perspective on Myst
___________________________________________________________________
The Myst Graph: A New Perspective on Myst
Author : tobr
Score : 133 points
Date : 2025-04-01 17:19 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (glthr.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (glthr.com)
| deater wrote:
| when making the Apple II version of Myst I more or less generated
| graphs like this by hand based on playing through the game (in
| order to hook up the data structures for the custom 6502-assembly
| language engine) I wonder if it would have been easier to
| automate it like this.
| tombert wrote:
| I hadn't heard of the Apple II version of Myst, so I looked it
| up...it's very cool, and pretty impressive!
| lawlessone wrote:
| Is this yours?
|
| http://www.deater.net/weave/vmwprod/mist/ It's cool
| deater wrote:
| yes. I also made an Atari 2600 version but that one's only a
| subset of the game (though it's enough can beat it using the
| speedrun route)
| deater wrote:
| if anyone is curious, the data structure used in the Apple II
| version had the idea of "locations" which just hold 4 of the
| nodes described here. Usually this would be for
| North/South/East/West, plus there would be an additional
| clickable area that would call a function callback, usually
| used for puzzles but it could also be used as a hack to take
| you to an additional location.
|
| This setup was more or less enough to implement the whole game,
| the one problem area was Channelwood where the pathway
| platforms are pentagons and thus had more than 4 backgrounds.
| There were also a few areas where a location could have used an
| additional clickable area but had to make do without. Also to
| fit on 3 disks about half the nodes were left out: generally
| when walking a straight path every other node was left out for
| both disk space and also time-consuming-rotoscope reasons.
| guerrilla wrote:
| Would even better if it was an interactive graph (with zoom)
| using the actual scene images somehow.
| lanternfish wrote:
| I think that's called Myst (1993)
| escapecharacter wrote:
| Thank you for this guffaw
| hoten wrote:
| I made a similar thing but for Silent Hill 2:
| https://connorjclark.github.io/sh2-graph/
|
| It's much more linear.
|
| source: https://github.com/connorjclark/sh2-graph
| anon84873628 wrote:
| For those, like me, wondering how to play it today. It seems the
| original studio has released a modernized version available on
| many platforms (including VR):
|
| https://cyan.com/games/myst/
|
| I missed out on Myst in its heyday, but have always wanted to
| check it out after hearing so many great things.
|
| Curious if any superfans think it would be better experienced as
| the original in an emulator or similar.
| maxsilver wrote:
| > Curious if any superfans think it would be better experienced
| as the original in an emulator or similar.
|
| (superfan checking in) -- I still believe the definitive
| release is the original `realMyst (2000)` (Sunsoft).
| https://archive.guildofarchivists.org/wiki/RealMyst . If you
| only ever play one version, that's the one to play. GOG
| maintains a beautiful version of this (that works well even on
| modern Windows), but Cyan de-listed it from GOG a while back,
| so you can't technically buy fresh copies anymore.
|
| Don't mistake this for "Real Myst: Masterpiece Edition", which
| is (sorry Cyan), not very good. They imported the old assets
| into Unity for the re-release, and then did some random
| texture/asset swaps, the lighting and mood didn't survive the
| import and is all randomly weird -- strongly recommend ignoring
| this one.
|
| The original release is good if you want the original
| experience -
| https://www.gog.com/en/game/myst_masterpiece_edition
|
| And the new Myst (2021/VR, Unreal Engine) release is wonderful
| and beautiful, but is more of a re-make to modern gaming
| sensibilities.
| Svip wrote:
| > Don't mistake this for "Real Myst: Masterpiece Edition",
| which is (sorry Cyan), not very good.
|
| I know you link it further down, but there are two
| Masterpiece Editions, one for Myst (1999) and one for
| realMyst (2014). The one you link is the MPE of Myst, and
| _technically_ not the original 1993 game, though as far as I
| can tell, it 's just an upgrade of graphics and sound, whilst
| remaining faithful to the original.
|
| I couldn't get realMyst to work back when I got it on GOG, so
| I'll admit I haven't tried it (nor its Masterpiece Edition),
| but I did enjoy the 2021 remake, although I noticed that even
| though it had been over a decade, I sped through that game (I
| mention this, because I actually visited it _after_ having
| played the 2024 Riven remake, where the changes to the
| puzzles did stump me from time to time). Though, personally,
| I am more of a Riven fan.
| sjm-lbm wrote:
| Since we're getting pretty far down the nerding-out-on-myst
| rabbit hole: the original version of realMyst, at least for
| Windows, had some bug that would cause it to immediately
| crash on any system with a multi-core CPU. At some point
| someone released a patched EXE that fixed it, I have no
| idea if gog and/or Steam ever released an official patched
| version.
|
| Also, while talking about remakes: Riven got a remake last
| year, and it's _fantastic_. The sprit of the game is
| entirely intact, but they made changes to some puzzles that
| both make the experience fresh (for anyone that played the
| 90s version of Riven) and much less annoying (for any first
| time players). Can 't recommend the Riven remake enough.
| chungy wrote:
| Conceding that it was a technical necessity, the
| replacement of live actors for in-game CGI rendered
| characters feels off in the Riven remake to me. Necessary
| because now you can walk all the way around them, the
| game can't assume a single viewing angle for videos to
| play out. Nor would it be practical to record new actors
| playing the roles (the old assets must surely be too low-
| quality to pass in a modern game, even if they go back to
| the source).
|
| Part of Myst and Riven's charm in the 1990s was the
| immersion it offered, the world felt real, and the actors
| playing out characters added to it. The original point-
| and-click format feels dated today, but at the time, it
| was convincing enough to be believable.
| sjm-lbm wrote:
| Yeah, I do agree with that. Honestly part of me wishes
| they would have used the old assets - put whatever you
| have thought the best available upscaler, and lock the
| player's position while the video plays. I mean, your
| position was locked in the original game.. so that should
| be possible without breaking things, right?
|
| That said, I really do think all of the tradeoffs that
| they did make were understandable - pretty much like you
| said. Doesn't keep me from being nostalgic for the 90s,
| though.
| MBCook wrote:
| > put whatever you have thought the best available
| upscaler
|
| I kind of suspect all they have had at at this point is
| the over compressed video files that must have been what,
| 240p at most?
|
| I suspect it may have been just so low that even if they
| wanted to they would have no choice but to recast and
| reshoot.
|
| At least they got to reuse the original audio, IIRC.
|
| I'm guessing the original video source was either lost or
| also possibly low quality/degraded.
| starburst wrote:
| I feel like they could've innovated using novel
| technique, like 3D gaussian splatting (and upscaling the
| video or better yet record new videos). The vast majority
| of the time, you're still pretty much locked unable to
| move when those CGI character show up, except for turning
| the camera around (from what I remembered). It could've
| been faked and still work and be much better as I felt it
| was the only downgrade to an otherwise fantastic remake
| that I really enjoyed.
| bunderbunder wrote:
| Get a modern version with higher-resolution graphics, better
| color, and other playability improvements. Masterpiece Edition
| is my favorite version I've played. I think there are a couple
| of even newer versions; I don't know how they compare.
|
| I wasn't a fan of RealMyst. The game's environment wasn't
| originally designed for the player being able to wander freely,
| so it doesn't really add much to the game and even detracts
| from it in some respects.
| rich_sasha wrote:
| I find in old games, the relatively dated graphics detract from
| the gameplay - even if they were very advanced for their era.
| The Zen of Myst is in the mystery (duh), in playing a game
| where you don't even know the rules or the objective,
| exploring, guessing, observing, being curious, immersed in a
| misty riddle.
|
| I think better graphics would only refine that, rather than
| detract from it.
| jimbob45 wrote:
| I disagree specifically with Myst and Riven because the real
| magic for me is in the audio (tantamount to ASMR) and that
| remains high enough quality. The visuals are mostly just
| helper references for what you're hearing with the audio. I
| suspect a text&audio version of Myst would work pretty well.
| robmccoll wrote:
| I'd play the 2021 UE remake unless you are specifically a fan
| of retro gaming / have fond memories of playing games in the
| 90s. If you are new to the series, it hews close enough to the
| original that you aren't missing anything on puzzles or story,
| but its modern graphics and fully explorable world might give
| you an experience similar to what it was like to play the
| original closer to release.
|
| Then go play the Riven remake. They simplified a few puzzles
| maybe a bit too much, but otherwise it's fantastic.
| jamesfmilne wrote:
| And unfortunately they have had to lay off half their studio:
|
| https://www.gamesindustry.biz/half-of-myst-developer-cyan-wo...
|
| The news from a lot of games studios has been pretty brutal
| over the last couple of years.
| whutsurnaym wrote:
| For a second I thought that article was old because it refers
| to Firmament as an "upcoming title"
| schlauerfox wrote:
| AI generated article maybe based on the X press release
| post? Most AI is based on out of date training data.
| cess11 wrote:
| Already Riven was a little too slick to have the same kind of
| lo-fi magic Myst evoked, so if that's what you want to get a
| feel for it's probably best to dig up some old ISO or CD and
| emulate. With a bit of luck some of the videos will refuse to
| render or glitch a bit, like they were prone to do back in the
| day.
|
| If it's more that you want to see the storytelling and puzzles
| later adaptions are likely fine. It's a neat game, exciting
| without direct conflict.
| doublerabbit wrote:
| Also going to throw this interesting article where someone
| debugged and eliminated the loading times of Myst 4.
|
| https://medium.com/@tomysshadow/fixing-the-loading-in-myst-i...
| gwbas1c wrote:
| > owing to the relative freedom it affords players
|
| That's really not "true". The 3D games at the time let you go
| anywhere, view anything. Myst only let you move to predefined
| locations.
|
| The difference is that you didn't have enemies trying to kill you
| all the time, or extremely difficult bosses to defeat in order to
| advance to other levels. Instead, Myst let you generally explore
| most of the game as you wished. You could explore quite far
| without technically "advancing" because you could ignore the
| puzzles. This made the game quite fun if all you wanted to do was
| look around.
|
| It's kind of similar to the actual freedom in Breath of the Wild
| / Tears of the Kingdom, where you don't need to advance in the
| game to explore the world.
| MBCook wrote:
| > The 3D games at the time let you go anywhere, view anything.
|
| In 1993? I don't remember any full freedom games back then.
| Certainly nothing could begin to approach the visuals for a
| very long time.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2025-04-01 23:00 UTC)