[HN Gopher] Why Kagi launched "no use, no pay"
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       Why Kagi launched "no use, no pay"
        
       Author : AnhTho_FR
       Score  : 41 points
       Date   : 2025-04-01 11:05 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (getlago.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (getlago.substack.com)
        
       | leejoramo wrote:
       | The first time I remember seeing a "no use, no pay" plan was with
       | the ProVUE's Panorama X excellent database application for macOS.
       | 
       | https://provue.com/
        
         | FinnLobsien wrote:
         | oh this is interesting because I feel like it wouldn't work
         | with infra as that runs in the background and you almost never
         | have zero usage on a DB.
        
           | godman_8 wrote:
           | IaaS is mostly like this already. There are some things where
           | it's not used like VMs which serverless tries to solve.
           | Additionally people tend to waste tons of resources with IaaS
           | because they don't scale on usage.
        
       | rmholt wrote:
       | Is there anything that prevents Kagi from doing an OpenAI and
       | going for profit?
        
         | pbronez wrote:
         | Kagi is already for profit, they just haven't raised a huge
         | amount of money:
         | 
         | > Kagi can afford this because they go further than being
         | bootstrapped and profitable: As a Public Benefit Corporation,
         | not beholden to maximizing shareholder value.
        
       | joshstrange wrote:
       | I'm always interested in new ways to handle
       | billing/subscriptions/etc and this is a cool change.
       | 
       | I recently heard of a payment strategy that I liked a lot though
       | I understand it's hard to explain to customers. John Siracusa's
       | Hyperspace [0] app has the following options:
       | 
       | * Monthly, recurring
       | 
       | * Monthly, one-time
       | 
       | * Yearly, recurring
       | 
       | * Monthly, one-time
       | 
       | * Lifetime, one-time
       | 
       | More details in the developer's own words here [1]. The
       | interesting options are the Monthly and Yearly one-time options.
       | For anyone in the Apple ecosystem you can technically get this
       | behavior by purchasing a subscription and immediately cancelling
       | it (since you will get the full time period you paid for still).
       | But I really like this payment style especially for an app like
       | this where I don't want to pay-per-use (that feel punitive) but I
       | don't really have ongoing data-deduplication needs (at least the
       | features the product currently offers). It's a "once every year
       | or so" and I might need to run it multiple times on different
       | directories/different settings.
       | 
       | "Time-based unlocks" might be a better way to think about it.
       | There are lots of products I would 1000000% pay for 1 month of,
       | if it auto-cancelled, but I don't need it every month. Often I
       | just skip using the product completely since I have no idea if I
       | cancel if they will close my account right away and/or try to
       | refund me. I just don't want to have to set a calendar item to
       | remember to cancel a day before it renews.
       | 
       | I'm not opposed to subscriptions, developers need to make money
       | and platforms/OS change all the time (especially in mobile) so
       | there is ongoing maintenance. But the issue for me are apps I
       | only need for a little bit or infrequently. If Adobe offered a "1
       | month, no renewal" then there is a good chance I'd still be using
       | Photoshop instead of switching to Pixelmator Pro.
       | 
       | [0] https://hypercritical.co/hyperspace/
       | 
       | [1] https://hypercritical.co/hyperspace/#purchase
        
         | poincaredisk wrote:
         | It sounds like a good option to have with confusing phrasing.
         | "Buy access for 1 month" would be a lot more clear than
         | "monthly" which to me indicates something recurring (I'm not a
         | native speaker).
         | 
         | It also sounds like an option that reduces sales in almost all
         | cases, so it will never be widely adopted.
        
         | tmpz22 wrote:
         | As much as I like lifetime purchases I think for software
         | products it creates too many liabilities for all parties.
         | Probably in the fine print you need a carve out saying it won't
         | actually be provided in perpetuity (what software is?). As a
         | purchaser I don't think it's realistic to really expect the
         | software forever. I think of it more as a supporter/founder
         | tier with various privileges that will one day end - and it
         | should probably be advertised as such.
        
       | Rebelgecko wrote:
       | What makes kagi users more of a community than other search
       | engine users? I imagine it's a somewhat self-selecting group so I
       | can't tell if it's just verbiage or a meaningful distinction.
        
         | carlhjerpe wrote:
         | They all pay, it's a distinction to "every other search engine"
         | and their users.
         | 
         | They have a Discord server where news and updates are released,
         | hyped and discussed.
         | 
         | Kagi is appreciated and people like to associate with
         | appreciated things
        
         | derwiki wrote:
         | They sent me a yellow tshirt. If I ever run into someone with
         | the same tshirt, we can high-five and say "same team!"
        
       | superultra wrote:
       | I'm really curious about this because it actually incurs some
       | interesting possible customer service issues. Say someone signs
       | up, then usage lapses for a while. Then they use it. Bam they're
       | charged. Will they remember that they signed up? Some of these
       | edge cases are defined in the article but remain unanswered. It
       | sounds like the team at Kagi didn't even think about them, which
       | is interesting. Still I'd like to know the answer.
        
       | siquick wrote:
       | I've been paying for Kagi for about 18 months and it's pretty
       | much the only subscription I have that it's never crossed my mind
       | to cancel it.
        
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       (page generated 2025-04-01 23:01 UTC)