[HN Gopher] Published Doesn't Mean Paid
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Published Doesn't Mean Paid
Author : Anon84
Score : 43 points
Date : 2025-03-29 16:57 UTC (3 days ago)
(HTM) web link (kristie-de-garis.ghost.io)
(TXT) w3m dump (kristie-de-garis.ghost.io)
| arjunaaqa wrote:
| Modern authors should publish on their own websites,
|
| And spend 6-12 months time before launch in marketing and talking
| on social media.
|
| We need more empowered authors.
| cardanome wrote:
| Yeah but it sucks that these days more and more professions
| require that you market yourself.
|
| It would be great if people could just write and live from
| that.
| tornadofart wrote:
| I genuinely hate that. DoNt oNlY bE a dEvELoPER bUT AlsO a
| TeChniCAl WriTeR aND bUiLD yOuR pErSoNaL bRAnd ... uh no
| sorry I have a life
| daedrdev wrote:
| There are just so many books published today that there is
| no guarantee of any amount of readership by just releasing
| a book.
| Miraste wrote:
| Modern authors may be forced to spend too much time in the
| sludge pits of social media for any hope of financial success,
| but we don't need to pretend that's being "empowered."
|
| Also, publishing on your own website and nowhere else will not
| work. Such is the modern age of platforms.
| richardatlarge wrote:
| first suggestion: don't take 2.5 years to write a book
|
| second suggestion: don't go with a traditional publisher if
| you're not getting a hefty advance- a small advance means no
| publicity, and the royalty rates are too dismal to do your own
| advertising
|
| go indie: with 70 percent royalties on ebooks you can make more
| than this author in a week
|
| trad publishing is a club: don't expect to make money when you
| join an elite(ist) club
| TimorousBestie wrote:
| Assuming the seventy percent figure is KDP, there are so many
| restrictions on that tier an author rarely gets anywhere close
| to that rate.
|
| And charging 2.99 for an eBook is a death knell in some genres,
| it'll cut sales by an order of magnitude.
| WorkerBee28474 wrote:
| The conclusion the author should have reached isn't 'authors need
| more support' but rather 'this is how the world tells authors it
| doesn't need so many books'.
| tornadofart wrote:
| The market isn't that good at detecting and rewarding genius
| work in the short term. Herman Melville, Edgar Allan Poe as
| well as Oscar Wilde died poor.
| MinimalAction wrote:
| These comments where they somehow suggest more of creativity is
| not necessary is rather upsetting. Should they then just be
| doing what the world handsomely rewards, which currently seems
| to be optimizing ads at a big tech company.
| fph wrote:
| Looks like we need to change the priorities set by the
| market. Targeted taxes and subsidies are the way to do it.
| daedrdev wrote:
| There are more books published today than ever before. 96%
| sold less than 1000 copies when published by the big
| publishing houses. I feel like that is the strongest sign the
| market can give that there are too many authors or many of
| them aren't good enough.
|
| https://www.elysian.press/p/no-one-buys-books
| TeMPOraL wrote:
| That's fair. Now if we go with this line of thinking, and push
| a little bit past the obvious, the seeming difference in
| earning potential between authors and entertainers - whether
| YouTube influencers, classical athletes or singers, combined
| with clear winner-take-all dynamics of the latter groups, is
| how the world tells us...
|
| ... we need more human connection.
|
| It's not just whether or not the content is lighter, more
| engaging, or hyperoptimized. It's not _just_ that. Maybe what
| 's common between all this, and other high-engagement creations
| like high-outrage news reporting, is the same instinct: seeking
| out what's important, by proxy of what we expect others will
| also seek out and talk about. So, in short, seeking connection.
|
| Just random musings, no real conclusion here.
| christina97 wrote:
| I'm not sure what the author expected? I imagine the royalties
| and advance were agreed upon in advance, surely they could do the
| calculus then?
|
| I think the fundamental issue is thinking that you can make a
| living writing a book for 2.5 years that only sells 500-2000
| copies. At the upper end, if she got the full PS10 per book for
| 2000 copies, that's still not a livable wage...
|
| Is the author just upset about the way the world works?
| WorkerBee28474 wrote:
| > Is the author just upset about the way the world works?
|
| Yes. The author has chosen to work on something she loves,
| without regard to whether anyone will pay her to do it, and is
| complaining that no one will pay her to do it.
| tornadofart wrote:
| I did not read it as being upset. Drawing the public's
| attention to the economics of publishing and showing how to
| support an author you like is OK, no?
| MinimalAction wrote:
| It is not that they didn't know the calculus. You seem to
| suggest that writing altogether is economically unviable, so
| the author should not have chosen to do that at all.
|
| The issue is that certain talents are not recognized at all,
| and if you like reading, then buy the books outright, pre-order
| it, ask your library to get it. Basically, an effort to reward
| those who show up and contribute to a profession as noble as
| writing.
| christina97 wrote:
| I'm not suggesting at all that the author should not have
| chosen to do it. No such judgement.
|
| I'm simply interpreting the authors tone: it sounds to me
| frustrated and as if she feels she's been wronged by "the
| system." Maybe I simply misinterpreted the tone!
| wrs wrote:
| I didn't get that impression. I think she just wants the
| readers to not have a misconception of how much she's
| getting paid for the book they're (hopefully) enjoying.
|
| I hear a lot of similar sentiments from musicians whose
| fans think they're making any money by touring or
| streaming. And they get the same advice I'm seeing in this
| thread: you can't just be a musician anymore, you have to
| also be a social media expert, marketer, bookkeeper,
| recording engineer...in other words all the stuff the music
| label / publisher used to do so you could focus on the
| actual artwork.
| tossandthrow wrote:
| >... whose fans think they're making any money...
|
| I am curious about this.
|
| I might be alone, but very rarely do I think about what
| the authors I enjoy, or musicians I enjoy earn.
|
| I am constantly, however, being exposed to what tailor
| swift earns. But I absolutely don't make myself belive
| that German niche Orchestras make comparable amounts.
|
| Being a musician, author etc. Does not pay well. And
| nobody has ever told them elsewise, or is telling them
| elsewise.
|
| It has really always been the case.
|
| So it rings hollow when authors and musicians try to put
| awareness on their earnings.
| jonas21 wrote:
| > _if you like reading, then buy the books outright, pre-
| order it, ask your library to get it._
|
| I don't think the issue is that people are reading her book
| without buying it or requesting it at the library. The issue
| is that not enough people want to read it in the first place.
| That's just the way things work. Far more people want to
| write books than can be supported by the market.
| nyeah wrote:
| I'm surprised that anyone can read this coldly factual post
| about volunteer work that benefits society and pays next to
| nothing ... and then somehow come up with an antagonistic
| response.
|
| YMMV. But I never read about St. Francis, say, and thought to
| myself "Shut up already. What ever made you think the bird gig
| was going to pay off?"
|
| EDIT: "Benefits society" in the aggregate. This particular
| woman may write utterly worthless books that benefit nobody. I
| don't know.
| paxys wrote:
| There are an estimated 4 million books published every year.
| Not all of them are "volunteer work that benefits society".
| I'm going to go ahead and assume it's a very, very tiny
| minority of them. Most writers (and certainly every single
| one I know) have nothing to contribute to society except
| their own vanity.
|
| I have nothing against creative expression, but when people
| start splashing a bucket of paint on a canvas and going "I'm
| an artist, I deserve to have a comfortable life" I can't help
| but roll my eyes.
| nyeah wrote:
| When did she say she deserved a comfortable life? She
| writes. She doesn't get paid. Where are these bad vibes
| coming from?
| paxys wrote:
| What was your takeaway from the article?
| nyeah wrote:
| Almost no writers make significant money from their
| writing.
| paxys wrote:
| And what was the call to action?
| nyeah wrote:
| "Buy books."
|
| My turn. What about the article is making you roll the
| eyes and go Socratic on my ass? Whence the bad vibes,
| bro?
| paxys wrote:
| It's just wild to me that someone spent _two and a half years_
| of their life perfecting their book and then...sold away the
| rights for PS2,500. At that point just self publish, or even
| put it up for free on the internet with a "donate" button next
| to it. Why devalue your own work to this degree?
| crazygringo wrote:
| Not that it changes your overall point, but they didn't. They
| sold away the rights _before_ they spent the two and a half
| years writing their book. If they hadn 't gotten the advance
| and therefore the ~guarantee it would get published, they
| might not have written it in the first place.
|
| But they can't choose to self-publish after they finish it,
| because they chose to sign their contract long before that.
| 6stringmerc wrote:
| Okay so I'm also a writer - self publishing on Medium (and earn
| $x.xx occasionally some months) and also a 100% independent
| musician and producer and songwriter.
|
| You are absolutely spot on about the tone. It's incredibly
| whiny and woe-is-me and complaining about a system that, as she
| admits, is known to be poverty level revenue for the vast
| majority. The big tell is "support authors!" as if it's some
| kind of requirement people do more than simply sustain an
| industry already on the brink. She has the gall to even get an
| advance, publish, and make it the audience's guilt trip she's
| gotta tell people she didn't make squat? That's a high horse.
|
| I dislike the article and its perspective. It's PETULANT.
| Thousands of writers simply appreciate audiences for sharing
| their TIME for reading a piece. This article? It's a dressed up
| complaint and I'll have none of what she's having.
|
| For reference, I've got 10k Spotify plays, worldwide, over the
| course of 10 years and it's under $100. When I write about this
| fact, I don't complain about the income. What is my big
| takeaway? I'm grateful people I've never met and will likely
| never meet have found my music worth listening to and chosen to
| give it a little slice of their life. That's a good
| perspective, a healthy one, and I'm with you on your
| impression.
| MinimalAction wrote:
| This post evoked a sense of sadness within me, though I can't
| quite pinpoint the reason behind it. In the era where influencers
| without much depth to their content get to reap the monetary
| benefits, while those who genuinely showcase their creativity in
| rather holistic ways are left unrewarded. This trend has been
| around perhaps for longer than I imagine, but to put it in words
| made me realize this intensely.
|
| I will do my part and ask my library too.
| bombcar wrote:
| If it makes you feel better the economics of "influencers" is
| way, way, way worse. This lady at least got some money! The
| average "influencer" just gets nothing.
| Havoc wrote:
| The same dynamics play out in everything from YouTube to
| onlyfans. A very small group make tons of money and are very
| visible and the other 99% make no money but nobody notices them.
| And that's slanted perception pulls in more people driving up
| supply
|
| But yeah books seem particularly brutal. The vast majority of my
| books were acquired at just over a dollar. Amazon daily sales and
| lots of patience. Even the big names have discounts that deep.
| I'm glad to have them but that is pretty brutal economics
| blatantly wrote:
| If I did a book for money (bad idea yes!) I'd try at least to
| self publish and make it a premium thing with upsells. Like the
| Total Typescript course.
|
| Selling 100 for $50 (no mean feat but still modest) copies
| would probably beat any publisher earnings!
|
| You could also get away with less perfect grammar etc. BYO
| editor or just edit yourself. The goal is to teach after all.
| cardanome wrote:
| This is way some countries like Germany have fixed book prices.
| They set a minimum price that the book needs to be sold at.
|
| This helps authors and also prevents smaller book shops from
| being out competed by price.
|
| It is a pretty great system. Sure German books tend to be
| significantly more expensive than the English counter part but
| its not like I don't have already enough books in my pile of
| shame. And for those tight on money there is always libraries.
| spacebanana7 wrote:
| I don't think that logic works well with digital goods.
| Because there is zero marginal cost, you always want more
| purchases even if the price is incredibly low.
|
| And digital goods can be infinitely large. Conceivably the
| combined works of JK Rowling or Tolkien could be sold as a
| single unit. Therefore able to cut beneath a minimum price.
| 101008 wrote:
| We grew up in the 80s or 90s that meant get published means
| money, being on TV meant being famous, the elite were separated
| from the public. Internet democratriced all of that. Now we are
| all mixed. You can be famous on the internet, be someone on
| Twitter, and at the same time need a regular job.
| nyeah wrote:
| If you read the OP and felt angry or offended, can you quote a
| key sentence that seemed to be a problem?
| crazygringo wrote:
| I don't think it's any "key sentence". I think it's simply
| summarized by the first sentence of the current top comment by
| christina97:
|
| > _I'm not sure what the author expected?_
|
| It's less about being angry or offended, and more like, why is
| this being posted? It's not news. It's how publishing works.
| decimalenough wrote:
| This has always been the case. What's new is that LLMs let people
| churn out books in seconds, meaning that for e-books in
| particular, formerly (possibly) lucrative topics like niche
| erotica are about to get competed down to zero.
| daedrdev wrote:
| 35% of books published are profitable
|
| 96% of books sold less than 1,000 copies in 2020
|
| 50% sold less than a dozen copies in 2020
|
| This is the state of the industry, publishers publish many books
| gambling for the hits the make up the vast majority of their
| revenue.
|
| It is a very cold industry with many authors failing to get
| readers interested. They best measure of schuss is to have a
| preexisting readership or be popular elsewhere, and even then
| that's by no means a guarantee of a books success. And this data
| is from before AI. The 35% probably undersells it because books
| like hers probably received no marketing.
|
| [1] https://www.elysian.press/p/no-one-buys-books
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