[HN Gopher] Win98-quickinstall: A framework and installer to qui...
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       Win98-quickinstall: A framework and installer to quickly install
       Windows 98
        
       Author : userbinator
       Score  : 197 points
       Date   : 2025-03-31 04:10 UTC (18 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | orionblastar wrote:
       | Good work, I still use Windows 9X for emulation for DOS, 16 bit
       | Windows, and 32 bit Windows programs. I do legacy systems and
       | retro programming on them.
        
         | krige wrote:
         | What do you use it on? Do you have dedicated hardware,
         | dosbox/pcem, a vitrual machine of some sort?
        
           | orionblastar wrote:
           | Virtual Box VM.
        
             | krige wrote:
             | How'd you get it stable on that? IME it tended to crash
             | even more that regular 9x did.
        
               | accrual wrote:
               | Not GP but I have had the same experience. I exclusively
               | use 86Box for anything older than XP these days and it
               | works fantastic. The ability to swap in whatever hardware
               | you want is so much fun.
        
               | userbinator wrote:
               | There are patches to fix TLB invalidation bug, memory
               | limit, and several other things.
        
             | Narishma wrote:
             | I recommend emulators like 86box or PCem instead, they're
             | much better for such old systems than VMs.
        
       | imiric wrote:
       | Very cool!
       | 
       | Is there an equivalent tool for Windows 11? I've used MSMG
       | Toolkit and NTLite in the past to slim down the ISO, but it was a
       | very manual and tedious process, and I still have to babysit the
       | installation itself. I would like a tool that takes a predefined
       | config file of what to remove, and then creates a fully
       | unassisted installer. Obviously bypassing the online account
       | shenanigans.
        
         | SpecialistK wrote:
         | From my understanding, as someone whose job was Windows
         | deployment for a few years, is... kind of? Admittedly my
         | experience is with deploying to a lot of machines at the same
         | time rather than to several machines more frequently.
         | 
         | You can use audit mode from the OOBE of a fresh install,
         | install your apps and changes, then run sysprep /generalize to
         | clear the GUIDs and return to the OOBE - capture the image
         | after the generalize but before reboot into the OOBE and the
         | image will be a generalized install. All you need to do is
         | restore the image (using a disk cloning software, dd from *nix,
         | or a network server like FoG) create a ESP to boot from, and
         | you have an image that can copy to any device at the speed of
         | the disk or network.
         | 
         | Microsoft has a Deployment Toolkit (MDT) which can take a
         | Windows install image (a WIM) and copy it to a machine then run
         | other tasks as part of a Task Sequence. This is handy for small
         | to medium sized businesses: a WIM can be a sysprepped image
         | like mentioned a paragraph up, so you can include big changes
         | like removing features or installing apps and updates. But then
         | it can be configured, using a Task Sequence and/or an XML file,
         | to do things after the Windows install like join a domain,
         | create a local account, install certain apps, run Windows
         | Update, etc. It also supports driver detection and
         | installation. MDT can be accessed using a USB boot drive or a
         | PXE network boot (Windows Deployment Services, WDS) and then
         | you just choose the Task Sequence you want then walk away for
         | an hour. But there is a learning curve: people have whole
         | careers specializing in this stuff. There is a more expensive
         | and powerful MS solution called SCCM that can do much the same
         | stuff (and a lot lot more) but the concepts are the same.
         | 
         | What Microsoft are pushing toward now is what I'll call the
         | "smartphone model" - IT departments don't reimage a machine as
         | soon as it shows up, but instead register the device with a MDM
         | like Intune. When the end-user receives the device, they are
         | forced to use a corporate Microsoft account and then the
         | desired configuration is pushed from the cloud. Without a MDM
         | configuration ("Windows Autopilot") you can use a tool called
         | WICD to create a configuration and save it as a "Provisioning
         | package" which, when on the root of a USB drive that's inserted
         | during the OOBE, will do the same configuration steps. I call
         | this the smartphone model because according to MS, the Windows
         | "factory reset" feature is all you would ever need rather than
         | a traditional wipe-and-reinstall.
         | 
         | What I would advise for a home poweruser is to build a Windows
         | image 2-3x a year in a virtual machine: do all your updates and
         | tweaks and app installs in a VM, then capture the image using
         | your disk cloning tool of choice (I do a bootable Linux session
         | plus dd piped into gzip), preferably to a network share. Then
         | use that tool on your target devices to restore the image: it
         | will write at about 112MB/s over gigabit Ethernet and after the
         | reboot will install your drivers and make the install unique.
        
           | razakel wrote:
           | WDS has been deprecated - you now need to use Configuration
           | Manager. Which means giving them more money. Because of
           | course it does.
        
             | SpecialistK wrote:
             | I believe MDT as a whole has been deprecated too. You can't
             | use the Windows 11 ADK for the WinPE image and they're very
             | much pushing toward the Provisioning Package / Intune
             | method.
        
         | Gansejunge wrote:
         | I stumbled upon this tool [1] recently that does not slim down
         | the image like you might want to but gives you a lot of options
         | what to remove via an .xml file [1]
         | https://schneegans.de/windows/unattend-generator/
        
       | rasz wrote:
       | > 60-90 seconds
       | 
       | Thats impressive speed for an install that not just copies pre-
       | installed system, but also includes Hardware detection and
       | selective driver installation phase.
        
         | szundi wrote:
         | Linux detects all your hardware and use drivers accordingly at
         | every boot - some seconds
        
           | sneak wrote:
           | Linux can be easily and simply modified by anyone to suit
           | their needs; Win98 cannot. You are comparing apples to
           | oranges.
        
             | iforgotpassword wrote:
             | That's not their point? Linux has all the drivers lying
             | around on disk and on every boot just does hw detection and
             | loads the appropriate ones. It takes a few seconds. You can
             | take a Linux install from a modern AMD system, stuff it
             | into a 10 year old Intel system and it will boot up
             | instantly. No driver install no "getting your devices
             | ready" screen that shows up for a minute or two.
             | 
             | This has nothing to do with being open source or being
             | customizable. It's simply pointing out how fast hw
             | detection is not only possible but the norm on other
             | systems.
        
               | haileys wrote:
               | Windows 9x existed at a very different time.
               | 
               | PCI wasn't a given. Plug and play wasn't a given. You
               | couldn't even reliably enumerate all hardware on a
               | system.
               | 
               | Hardware detection back then involved a lot of poking at
               | random IO ports and seeing what happens, using heuristics
               | to select an appropriate driver. This is as dodgy as it
               | sounds and would crash or hang your system if you weren't
               | lucky.
        
               | jandrese wrote:
               | One thing that helps this is that most of that really
               | buggy hardware has fallen into the wastebin of history
               | and everything attached to a "modern" W98 machine should
               | be plug and play compatible. PCI solved most of these
               | issues. ISA cards gave Windows 98 and especially 95 a bad
               | rap. Well, that and early USB controllers and devices.
               | There was a whole lot of brand new driver code being
               | tested in production back then.
        
           | badgersnake wrote:
           | Did it do that so comprehensively and reliably in 1998?
        
             | fps_doug2 wrote:
             | AFAIU the part that's doing it here is also the Linux part
             | of the installer, so Linux either way. But I feel Windows
             | was always slow with getting new devices ready at least
             | until Windows 7, 8.1 felt much better, no idea how current
             | 10/11 fares.
        
             | pjc50 wrote:
             | Reliabily yes. Comprehensively .. may have been an issue.
        
       | iforgotpassword wrote:
       | > with a custom data packing method that is optimized for
       | streaming directly from CD to the hard disk without any seeking
       | 
       | This is nice. I've always wondered why they don't do this with
       | the core parts of the os and then only extract additional
       | components and drivers. But maybe back then the core was only a
       | few MB and it wouldn't have helped so much...
       | 
       | I remember the setup taking ages. With 9x I don't think any
       | install ever lasted longer than a year, so I did this a lot. :)
        
         | h0l0cube wrote:
         | This was definitely a thing in the optical disc era of games
         | where seek times were horrendous. In record mode, this is done
         | by just overloading the file read functions, recording a list
         | of file, seek position, and read size instructions, and then
         | using that to build a .dat file. In play mode, the function is
         | overloaded to ignore file opens and seeks, and to just read
         | from the contiguous file. This requires the load to be
         | perfectly deterministic, and preferably without redundancy.
        
         | keyringlight wrote:
         | This is definitely an interesting part of it. Copying a few
         | hundred megs from CD to HDD doesn't take long even for old
         | hardware, but when I was setting up a win98 rig last autumn to
         | test some 3dfx cards it took the common ~45 minutes to get
         | through the main install, and that's before you get into the
         | post-install cycle of installing any software/drivers/updates
         | that need reboots. The "unofficial service pack3" is one I'd
         | love to integrate as it includes support for USB mass storage
         | which made the machine a lot easier to work with
         | 
         | On a side-note, walking the line between annoying and
         | entertaining was the noise of the HD during install, which
         | sounded like techno music and I should have recorded it.
         | Weirdly it was only during the win98 install that it made that
         | type of sound.
        
       | BloodOverdrive wrote:
       | Interesting. Will try.
        
       | CursedSilicon wrote:
       | I debated building something like this for a couple years with my
       | "Ultimate Windows 98 PC" [1]
       | 
       | I found that I could take the machine to vintage computer events
       | and it would (generally!) behave the entire event. I'd then take
       | it home and put it back on the shelf for a few months. After I'd
       | bring it back down to use it again, it'd throw a fit and usually
       | require a reinstall! It's not disk rot since I use SSD's
       | throughout
       | 
       | While this hasn't happened (this time) it's a constant looming
       | concern, particularly when pressed for time to get something up
       | and running for an event.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YETxI4rA_gs
        
         | nurettin wrote:
         | I remember having to constantly reinstall win98 back in the
         | 2000s. It felt like the OS kept corrupting its own filesystem.
         | I ended up "borrowing" a debian potato CD from a professor's
         | desk and never went back to windows (or his office).
        
           | pndy wrote:
           | Back then reinstall without formatting the drive felt like
           | resetting system to defaults and was practised by almost
           | everyone. I'm pretty sure W10 and W11 has similar feature
           | nowadays by default.
           | 
           | When I had chance to grab 180-days trial of W2000 I was
           | shocked how stable it was - not seeing blue screen every few
           | mins but modals with errors instead was... an amazing
           | experience. The store where I've got my Celeron-based machine
           | was installing 98 for everyone, not looking at licenses, all
           | the legal stuff at all and when I ask guys there if they
           | could drop W2000 they said that "it's a bad idea - many games
           | won't work".
        
             | enopod_ wrote:
             | I still consider Windows 2000 the best Windows ever made.
             | NT under the hood, slim, up-to-date, extremely stable, it
             | ran all the games I wanted. I managed to grab a burned CD
             | with a full version somewhere, the keys were not yet
             | checked online for multiple installs. For a long time, all
             | software and every driver for XP also worked for 2000. I
             | think I should find an old retro PC and install W2000 on
             | it, just for fun.
        
               | pndy wrote:
               | I really liked both stability and that subtle change from
               | dark grey GUI colour to gray with a really subtle yellow
               | hint that made it more pleasant to my eyes. So was the
               | default blue background colour instead of teal green more
               | appealing.
               | 
               | > I think I should find an old retro PC and install W2000
               | on it, just for fun.
               | 
               | I made a W2000 install in VirtualBox with most of the old
               | software I was using back then - of course without
               | network connection outside. IMO that's much easier than
               | dusting out old machine and wondering if it'll work at
               | all after so many years but ofc there are people who dig
               | that - I admire their dedication
        
               | mcny wrote:
               | I remember things differently. Perhaps it was because I
               | was working with older hardware or something I don't know
               | but Windows 2k felt so slow to boot.
               | 
               | I know it isn't a fair comparison since the computer with
               | windows XP was newer and I don't remember the details but
               | I remember thinking windows XP boots faster than 2k.
        
               | reginald78 wrote:
               | IIRC with XP they late loaded a lot of things to get the
               | desktop showing faster than 2000. My experience at the
               | time was that while the desktop might have loaded faster
               | it wasn't actually usable for quite awhile after I was
               | looking at it, but that might have had more to do with
               | all the crapware on many XP machines I used at the time.
               | 
               | XP definitely needed more ram than 2000 to function
               | acceptably. I remember 128mb being slow but tolerable on
               | 2000 and absolutely brutal on XP.
        
               | pndy wrote:
               | > IIRC with XP they late loaded a lot of things to get
               | the desktop showing faster than 2000
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefetcher - that's the
               | thing they introduced in XP to speed up loading the
               | system and programs
        
               | Suppafly wrote:
               | >My experience at the time was that while the desktop
               | might have loaded faster it wasn't actually usable for
               | quite awhile after I was looking at it
               | 
               | This, I think the fastboot stuff probably seemed good on
               | development machines used at microsoft, but on the cheap
               | computers loaded with OEM garbage that they were pushing
               | as being capable of running xp, it mostly loaded the
               | desktop and then locked up for several minutes to finish
               | actually booting.
        
               | recursive wrote:
               | Interesting. I have the opposite recollection. Perhaps it
               | has more to do with the hardware I was using.
        
               | trollbridge wrote:
               | Or you could just run it in a browser tab:
               | 
               | https://bellard.org/jslinux/vm.html?url=win2k.cfg&mem=192
               | &gr...
               | 
               | This was written 7 years ago, and rather amusingly, part
               | of it is called TEMU.
        
               | enopod_ wrote:
               | cool, thanks! :)
        
               | rollcat wrote:
               | Agree, W2k was peak Windows. Even the UI effects, like
               | subtle drop shadows and fade-out animations looked
               | tasteful, and were smooth on pretty average HW.
               | 
               | Speaking of "workstation grade" Windows, you can still
               | approximate this kind of experience by using
               | "deshittification" scripts from around the Internet. IIRC
               | I've used <https://github.com/Raphire/Win11Debloat>.
               | There are also enterprise-oriented release channels that
               | keep some of the new bloat away, I think you can convince
               | your existing installation.
               | 
               | Personally I'm more offended by recent macOS updates -
               | probably since it's my daily driver, so I notice it more.
               | I had to resort to things like MDM profiles to keep it in
               | check.
               | 
               | Modern software just feels worse. I don't think it's
               | nostalgia. A few years ago I've had my first experience
               | with OS X 10.5 on a PowerBook. The system looked and
               | worked better than modern macOS, even while the hardware
               | was hot and somewhat struggling. Everything I needed from
               | the OS was there (except for a performant web browser and
               | less heat/noise). I'd switch.
        
           | geon wrote:
           | It did.
           | 
           | Or perhaps it was because I dualbooted 98 and 2k.
           | 
           | All my warez were on a fat32 to be accessible from both.
           | Somehow the audio in my mp3 collection got replaced with
           | audio from my movies.
        
           | reginald78 wrote:
           | Windows 9x suffered from DLL hell. So every time a program
           | was installed it potentially overwrote dlls with a different
           | version often older or incompatible. Windows 2000/XP just
           | redirected the installer's dlls into a per program location
           | preventing this which is a large reason those versions were
           | so much more stable.
           | 
           | Most people recommended a complete reinstall every 6 months
           | well through the XP era but I found this was hardly ever
           | necessary after I switched to 2000. Conversely, during my 98
           | days I never had to schedule reinstalls, Windows had rotted
           | apart by then forcing me to do it!
        
             | antisthenes wrote:
             | I definitely remember the DLL hell experience that
             | manifested as an older 2d game overwriting some DirectX
             | dlls in the OS with older versions, and suddenly all my FPS
             | games stopped working.
             | 
             | That was a fun one to troubleshoot as a 12 year old kid.
        
         | eloeffler wrote:
         | While I have no idea if this is or isn't the reason for those
         | issues, I think it's worth mentioning that SSDs do suffer from
         | bit rot, especially when left unpowered.
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_degradation
         | https://www.partitionwizard.com/clone-disk/is-ssd-good-for-l...
        
         | userbinator wrote:
         | _It 's not disk rot since I use SSD's throughout_
         | 
         | SSDs, unless they're very old SLC/MLC ones, do actually suffer
         | from bit rot a lot more than magnetic/optical media. The
         | unpowered retention ratings of new TLC/QLC flash is rather
         | horrifying (months, not years or decades like they used to be).
         | 
         | https://goughlui.com/2023/10/10/psa-ssds-with-ymtc-flash-pro...
         | 
         | https://goughlui.com/2016/11/08/note-samsung-850-evo-data-re...
         | 
         | If you want a reliable SSD for old systems, an SLC-based CF
         | card is a good choice; it doesn't need to be very big (8GB is
         | plenty), and the retention characteristics are also "period-
         | correct".
        
           | bbarnett wrote:
           | While these posts are well written, one is about a cheap
           | Chinese flash manufacturer, the other unknown, and the author
           | muses that it may be the control chip or firmware, not the
           | flash itself.
        
             | userbinator wrote:
             | Samsung famously "fixed" the retention problems in firmware
             | by having it periodically rewrite data in the background,
             | but that doesn't work if the SSD is powered off.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | Is there something that lets you install Windows 7 64 bit as a
       | new install? That's the last version before ads and other
       | unwanted features.
        
         | HenryBemis wrote:
         | You can install Windows Firewall Control, some v4.9.x.x (before
         | someone acquired it and ruined it by changing it drastically on
         | v5 onward) and block all the garbage.
         | 
         | Then you can also use ClassicShell and have the 'good old Start
         | Menu' as you prefer to have it.
         | 
         | There are also a bunch of privacy tools that can disable most
         | of the garbage/uninstall the "Apps" and improve privacy with a
         | few clicks.
         | 
         | I stayed in Windows 10 for 7-8 years. After I tried Win10 and I
         | saw how my machine(s) work better on the same (10yo hardware) I
         | switched everything to Win10 with the above 'measures' (plus
         | the hosts from someonewhocares) and I haven't had any
         | annoyances for years.
        
         | 1970-01-01 wrote:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sysprep
        
         | yyyk wrote:
         | "my digital life" forum has many scripts for windows 7
         | installation (including patches).
        
       | jonplackett wrote:
       | Fun fact: I (re)installed windows 98 so many times due to
       | crashes, slowness, viruses etc that even now, 20 years later, I
       | remember every digit of the 25 digit activation key.
        
         | Codes wrote:
         | And I'll bet I remember the exact same key ;)
        
           | alabastervlog wrote:
           | I still _almost_ remember all of a certain infamous  "FCKGW"
           | key for WinXP.
           | 
           | Haven't installed it in... 20 years?
        
             | srvmshr wrote:
             | FCKGW-RHQQ2-YXRKT-8TG6W-2B7Q8
             | 
             | I had bummed out my P-III 700Mhz desktop so many times,
             | while tinkering with System32, INI files & experimental
             | software etc., in grade school that this key is seared into
             | some part of my cortex.
        
               | alabastervlog wrote:
               | I had the first, second, and fifth sections down for
               | sure, and some almost-remembered version of the other two
               | but also couldn't remember which order they went in.
               | 
               | I typed it a lot of times, but still probably only in the
               | (high) tens. Crazy how long it sticks in one's memory
               | with relatively little spaced repetition.
        
               | srvmshr wrote:
               | In those days of yore, the P-III was our first home
               | computer (Hard to imagine for kids today that a family of
               | 5 could have one PC shared between themselves).
               | 
               | I was the experimental, eldest summer child in my home. I
               | used to break things trying, open up the hood & change
               | RAM or other stuff, add/remove peripherals & their
               | drivers -- and to the extent of nuking Windows entirely
               | to try out Redhat 7/8, Knoppix, and other esoteric
               | software (because partitioning sucked back then & also,
               | why not for the fun of it). I used to load up dozens of
               | software on that tiny Seagate 20.4GB drive until it
               | crawled & failed. A clean wipe & reinstall used to soon
               | follow.
               | 
               | The only parent-child contract was to bring back Windows
               | XP to its usable state when direly needed by my mother to
               | type/edit her dissertation chapters about women
               | suffragette literature. I have broken & fixed Windows so
               | many times, I could sing tunes to product keys
        
               | culopatin wrote:
               | That was my first CPU! Thanks for the flashback.
        
           | userbinator wrote:
           | W7XTC-2YWFB-..?
        
         | ramijames wrote:
         | Funnily enough, I use this as the base for my password (plus
         | some other stuff) for anything I need strong protection for.
        
           | jonplackett wrote:
           | I hope you weren't also using the key above then...
        
       | RedShift1 wrote:
       | This may install fast but it certainly looks hard to get going
       | with it...
        
         | rasz wrote:
         | This project builds the installer, there is nothing, other than
         | Microsoft copyright, stopping someone from hosting compiled
         | Install CD itself.
        
       | piokoch wrote:
       | Who on earth would like to install that?
       | 
       | I can understand installing Win 95, sentiments, blah, blah, first
       | "real" windows MS system (Win 3.X was still some kind of windows
       | manager on top of DOS).
       | 
       | But 98?
       | 
       | Maybe let's go hardcore and go with Win 98ME, the worst operating
       | system ever (with Vista as a strong second-place contender), at
       | least we can experience random blue screens, which were the major
       | feature introduced by 98ME, and that surely should be replicated
       | by a simulator, to feel those old vibes.
        
         | rickdeckard wrote:
         | Apparently a fringe opinion, but Win98SE was IMO the best
         | iteration of Win95.
         | 
         | For me it was faster, more stable, more polished than Win95.
         | 
         | (a bit more bloated with the IE-integration, but that was easy
         | to strip away)
        
         | fps_doug2 wrote:
         | Your memory seems to fail you. Win98SE was the most stable of
         | the 9x series. ME was the bad one.
        
           | Zambyte wrote:
           | Your reading seems to fail you. That's what they said :-)
        
             | theandrewbailey wrote:
             | > Win 98ME
             | 
             | Windows ME was not a release of, nor branded with, Windows
             | 98 whatsoever.
        
               | accrual wrote:
               | Right. And a fun fact for readers, it's technically
               | Windows "Me" (title case) and advertising has it read as
               | "me" as in me the person, not "M.E." as Millenium
               | Edition.
               | 
               | Kind of interesting history there - "Me" was intended to
               | show the PC was becoming more personal. I think WinMe
               | added some new "My Documents", "My Pictures", etc. that
               | came with Win2k and later XP which helped drive the
               | personal aspect. Then later "XP" was meant to be
               | "eXPerience" as in a new PC experience. Microsoft was a
               | bit more fun back then.
        
               | estebank wrote:
               | Part of the thinking behind the "My *" naming for those
               | directories was forcing applications to handle spaces in
               | paths properly.
        
               | tracker1 wrote:
               | That was definitely part of it... as XP SPs released,
               | they locked down application access to read/write where
               | applications typically shouldn't, including in their own
               | Program Files directory, and this did bork some
               | applications even though it was supposed to redirect the
               | changes to a different directory.
               | 
               | So many poorly written applications broke through those
               | days. I may be thinking of Vista/Win7 though, the time
               | has muddled my brain a bit.
        
               | jandrese wrote:
               | No, but in practice it was Win98SE3. Also, it was
               | obsolete before it was even released. There was basically
               | no reason to run WinME instead of WinXP, especially on a
               | new machine.
        
               | theandrewbailey wrote:
               | > Also, it was obsolete before it was even released.
               | 
               | How so? Windows NT and 2000 were not designed for home
               | use, and Windows ME released (September 14, 2000)[0] over
               | a year before Windows XP released (October 25, 2001)[1].
               | 
               | [0] https://news.microsoft.com/2000/09/14/microsoft-
               | announces-im...
               | 
               | [1] https://news.microsoft.com/2001/08/24/an-Inside-look-
               | at-the-...
        
         | barotalomey wrote:
         | Win98SE was the final usable Win9x version and the most stable
         | version of them all.
         | 
         | There's a crapload of late 90s / early 00s Windows games that
         | isnt compatible with modern Windows, so running or emulating
         | Win9X is really the only way of accessing them.
         | 
         | If you are doing Win9X today, you would only be using Win98SE
         | or you're doing it wrong.
         | 
         | And let's not mention Windows Millenium again.
        
           | keyringlight wrote:
           | One of the big changes with ME was cutting out DOS mode as
           | much as they could, and if you're doing a system for retro
           | computing then it's hard to see why you'd constrain what it's
           | capable of. If you don't need that and you've blacklisted
           | 95/98 then I don't see why you wouldn't go for win2k onwards
           | as it'll be a lot easier to work with, but it's a different
           | animal.
        
             | accrual wrote:
             | Yes, agree on Window Me. It's not a lot of use for a retro
             | gaming system by default. It's not too difficult to
             | rollback some of the changes and re-enable the ability to
             | exit to MS-DOS 7, but it is extra steps for not much gain.
             | 
             | IMO, the main reason to run Windows Me over Windows 98 SE
             | is if one likes the Windows 2000-style shell updates that
             | were bundled into Me. Me also has a more mature network
             | stack and some other updates ported over from the 2K
             | kernel. If one likes those features then by all means - re-
             | enable DOS mode and it's a decent alternative to 98 SE.
        
         | accrual wrote:
         | I just wanted to add that Windows 3.X is capable of running
         | independently of DOS and BIOS calls. By default yes, it uses
         | the BIOS for disk access. But with a disk driver (e.g.
         | Microhouse driver, FastDisk driver), Windows 3.X can live
         | entirely in 32-bit protected mode. Windows 95/98/Me are the
         | same way, they are real 16/32-bit hybrid kernels that used DOS
         | as a bootstrap but nothing more.
        
       | aussieguy1234 wrote:
       | After getting blue screened one too many times with Windows 98, I
       | ordered a Red Hat Linux CD.
       | 
       | I never went back to Windows and still use Linux to this day,
       | nowadays with NixOS.
        
       | tpoacher wrote:
       | Running Win98 is still the most reliable way to get Discworld
       | Noir to actually run; a gem of a game, made almost useless by the
       | aggressive DRM practices of the time.
       | 
       | Bookmarking this for future use :)
        
         | pathartl wrote:
         | For games like these I tend to use a base Win98 image with
         | DOSBox and then mount the game as a separate drive, disable the
         | Windows shell, and auto start the game.
        
           | LocutusOfBorges wrote:
           | I'm surprised nobody has created a way to automate this
           | process - I imagine that any tool that makes it trivial would
           | be quite popular, given what a pain it can be to set up
           | manually.
        
             | pathartl wrote:
             | I actually dev a project called LANCommander which can be
             | used as a sef-hosted digital game distribution platform ala
             | Steam, Epic Games, etc. It has built in support for
             | redistributables. What i would actually do is make the
             | DOSBox/Win98 combo a redist and then have the individual
             | games require that redist.
             | 
             | That way if you wanted to make changes like install patches
             | on Windows or change the DOSBox config you only have to do
             | it to the redist.
        
               | piperswe wrote:
               | Decided to take a look at LANCommander since it sounds
               | interesting - looks really cool! But the website is
               | currently giving 502 errors, so I'm only able to see the
               | README.md
        
               | pathartl wrote:
               | Yeah, working on rebuilding the site. The GitHub and
               | documentation sites should be the most up to date
               | information: https://github.com/LANCommander/LANCommander
               | https://docs.lancommander.app/
        
       | zb3 wrote:
       | For those who don't want to install:
       | https://copy.sh/v86/?profile=windows98
        
         | nness wrote:
         | I have Win98 in an 86box just for fun, and yet it feels like
         | that version runs much more smoothly...
        
           | accrual wrote:
           | Interesting! Maybe it's taking a more direct path to
           | emulating the hardware. I found I have to use pretty modest
           | emulated hardware in 86Box to have performant results.
        
       | submeta wrote:
       | No offence to Windows lovers, but my God is this ugly. Current
       | versions of Windows look great. But back then Windows looked
       | horrible. Apple managed to produce beautiful interfaces back
       | then, as they do now.
        
         | fps_doug2 wrote:
         | Sorry, but no.
         | 
         | This is MacOS in 1998:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mac_OS_8.1_emulated_insid...
         | 
         | I think this is way uglier than Win9x.
        
           | barotalomey wrote:
           | potato, potato.
           | 
           | And Bob's your uncle
        
       | smusamashah wrote:
       | This reminds of the Ghost (was it Norton Ghost?) tool. I use to
       | experiment with the file system and try out many many all kinds
       | of softwares from Internet and software CDs. Those CDs use to
       | come with 100s of softwares of all kind. I use to buy them and
       | then try out every single one of them. I use to maintain an
       | index, using IYF, to find a software in any of those CDs.
       | 
       | Anyway these softwares use to have there crack/patch tools with
       | them (with music and effects and whatnot). These cracks often had
       | virus or trojen in them. I have bored my windows many many times.
       | Ghost helped with that immensely. I had 1 or 2 fresh install with
       | basic setup ghost backup always available. After every bork, it
       | only took a minute to restore my windows to fresh clean state.
       | Kaspersky was the best anti virus back then, no other tool
       | repaired my corrupted softwares like it. Norton anti virus use to
       | scream only after getting infected itself.
       | 
       | We have it lot easy now.
        
         | unixhero wrote:
         | Kaspersky was the very best, it could handle any bad case
         | better than any of the others.
         | 
         | I used to use the cataloging software WhereIsIt. It was really
         | genious.
        
         | txdv wrote:
         | I also reinstalled windows one too many times and used norton
         | backup.
         | 
         | I am not clever enough to understand that I could just do it
         | with linux by disk dumping into an image, but hey, old times
        
         | dmd wrote:
         | Ghost was descended from my absolute favorite late-90s / early
         | 00s tool, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GoBack which, as you
         | say, let you undo absolutely anything you did to your machine.
         | 
         | I wish I had something like it on Mac.
        
           | Synaesthesia wrote:
           | Superduper is a useful Mac utility, as is CCC (Carbon Copy
           | Cloner)
        
             | dmd wrote:
             | Those are backup tools, which have little to nothing to do
             | with what I'm talking about.
        
           | spmurrayzzz wrote:
           | GoBack was great. I gotta believe there's a way to manually
           | instrument this using `tmutil` to create incremental APFS
           | snapshots and some middleware code that knows when to wait
           | for for the FS to be idle, but that's handwaving a ton of
           | details.
        
           | astrostl wrote:
           | > GoBack was designed by Wild File, Inc., a company located
           | in Plymouth, Minnesota. The software was shown at COMDEX in
           | November 1998 and released in December 1998.
           | 
           | > GHOST (an acronym for general hardware-oriented system
           | transfer), now called Symantec(tm) GHOST Solution Suite (GSS)
           | for enterprise, is a disk cloning and backup tool originally
           | developed by Murray Haszard in 1995 for Binary Research.
           | 
           | ^^ GHOST was not descended from GoBack
           | 
           | As for something like GoBack on Mac, if you're using a recent
           | macOS and have an APFS filesystem you can take/restore whole-
           | disk snapshots with Time Machine, tmutil from the CLI, or a
           | third-party tool like Carbon Copy Cloner.
        
             | dmd wrote:
             | You're right, the article said "replaced by" and I assumed
             | it had some lineage, but no.
             | 
             | Time Machine is file-based, whereas GoBack was block-based.
             | GoBack could revert absolutely anything - even changes a
             | program made to the OS or even to the boot sector! If you
             | did something that made the machine not bootable, it was
             | still a matter of seconds to boot into the GoBack
             | supervisor and ask it to revert to a previous state.
             | 
             | APFS is quite powerful but its functionality hasn't been
             | really exposed very well to the user.
        
               | astrostl wrote:
               | Since Catalina the OS itself is in a read-only volume and
               | everything else is separate - by default, respectively
               | "Macintosh HD" and "Data" as exposed in Disk Utility.
               | Strictly speaking, I think programs _cannot_ change the
               | OS or boot sector. The only thing I know of that can is a
               | macOS upgrade itself, and it does automatically take a
               | pre-upgrade snapshot for the ability to restore.
        
               | dmd wrote:
               | Sure, but suppose I run something that spews all over,
               | say, my homebrew install. That's not "part of the OS",
               | but it might as _well_ be.
               | 
               | Can apfs snapshots roll that back? Probably? But that
               | functionality isn't exposed to mere mortals (and
               | certainly not on the startup volume).
               | 
               | If there's a way to do this:
               | 
               | 1. make-some-kind-of-snapshot abc123
               | 
               | 2. make some changes all over the place (I don't know
               | where!) that i then want to revert
               | 
               | 3. restore-to abc123
               | 
               | and at this point, the entire system is exactly,
               | precisely, bit for bit how it was after step 1 -- and
               | where step 3 takes just a few seconds -- well, I'd love
               | to know about it.
        
               | astrostl wrote:
               | Time Machine can do that. Whether they're automatic or
               | manual backups, you can boot your system in recovery mode
               | and restore from a backup to fully revert to a previous
               | snapshot. It will require a reboot and the speed of
               | execution will depend on the size of the changeset from
               | the current state.
        
         | 101008 wrote:
         | Reminded of DiskFreeze (or something ismilar, Freeze was for
         | sure in the name), that i installed in my PC after seeing it as
         | some cyber cafes. Basically, one partition with all the
         | software was under this DiskFreeze, and another partition /
         | disk where I stored documents and files. DiskFreeze restored
         | the disk/partition with OS+software on every restart, meaning
         | that I was infected or corrupted or anything, a simple restart
         | would fix the machine.
         | 
         | The trick to install a software was to disable it, restart,
         | install it, enable it again and restart again. I only did that
         | after installing a software and test it for a few hours or
         | days, which of course didn't mean anything, but at least I
         | didn't see any visible problem.
        
           | p1mrx wrote:
           | Deep Freeze
        
             | userbinator wrote:
             | This: https://www.faronics.com/products/deep-freeze
        
           | rzzzt wrote:
           | XP had a good snapshot/restore tool:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_SteadyState
           | 
           | You can install a write filter on later embedded versions of
           | Windows but this was available for home or cafe use as well.
        
         | pixelbath wrote:
         | It was simply "Ghost" before Norton bought it and made it more
         | terrible and bloated over time. We (at a computer shop I worked
         | at) used Ghost to build a pre-OOBE image for several common
         | Windows configurations and then just image them to new PCs in a
         | few minutes, then apply the license key afterward.
        
       | klaussilveira wrote:
       | We need one of these for the Raspberry Pi, but native. And old
       | monitor + pi inside would be an amazing retro PC build. I have it
       | running on DosBox, but it's not that great.
        
       | naikrovek wrote:
       | This is very cool but who is installing Win98 so much that this
       | is useful?
       | 
       | That said I am all for this project, I just don't know who would
       | use it.
        
         | accrual wrote:
         | Retrocomputing has blasted off into a larger hobby as of late.
         | I think it's a combination of COVID free time in 2020, plus the
         | demographic that grew up with early Windows is now old enough
         | to appreciate the OS more and wants to re-experience it with
         | modern tools and knowledge.
         | 
         | I don't personally install Windows 98 nearly often enough to
         | justify a tool like this, regular vanilla installs are fine
         | with me. But some do a lot of benchmarking and testing on
         | modern hardware, e.g. user "O_MORES" has a configuration to run
         | Windows 98 alongside Windows 11 and frequently expands it.
        
       | gwbas1c wrote:
       | This just begs the question: Why was the basic Win98 question so
       | ^%$#^% slow?
        
       | wg0 wrote:
       | I'm too far away from a windows machine for far too long. Is it
       | possible to run Windows 98 on modern hardware especially when no
       | one would be shipping any drivers?
       | 
       | Also, what's the use case for it?
       | 
       | Lastly, wondering if MS still sells Windows 98 if someone needs
       | because of some specific reason.
        
         | accrual wrote:
         | Yes, actually! Search for user "O_MORES". They're active on
         | Reddit and possibly Vogons. They have successfully dual booted
         | Windows 98 and Windows 10/11 on modern hardware. The key is to
         | use a supported PCI/PCIe graphics, audio, and network cards
         | then slot them into a modern motherboard. The sheer speed of
         | modern hardware makes up for a lot of shortcomings.
         | 
         | For use cases - for me at least, it's for fun, nostalgia, and
         | because I enjoy diving deeper into old hardware and OSs that I
         | didn't have the experience to when they were new. Everyone has
         | their own reasons, but I think this is a common one.
         | 
         | No need to buy Windows 98 anymore though, clean known-good OEM
         | ISOs are available on WinWorldPC along with accompanying
         | product keys.
        
           | rzzzt wrote:
           | Also on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@O_mores/videos
        
         | chungy wrote:
         | > Lastly, wondering if MS still sells Windows 98 if someone
         | needs because of some specific reason.
         | 
         | They do, in fact buying Windows in a commercial setting
         | basically entitles you to all the prior versions:
         | https://download.microsoft.com/download/6/8/9/68964284-864d-...
        
       | Synaesthesia wrote:
       | I saw this demoed on this video where the guy builds the fastest
       | DOS computer possible
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LIPTQjQAPE
        
       | andix wrote:
       | That's exactly what I was looking for, around 28 years ago ;)
        
       | redeeman wrote:
       | but why not just install manually, keep an image?
        
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