[HN Gopher] Unmasking a slow and steady password spray attack
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       Unmasking a slow and steady password spray attack
        
       Author : noleary
       Score  : 55 points
       Date   : 2025-03-29 05:13 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (petrasecurity.substack.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (petrasecurity.substack.com)
        
       | giorgioz wrote:
       | Interesting but from the article I haven't understood how they
       | actually managed to group together the 24 Users Targeted in 1
       | Week and understood this was a malicious attack.
        
         | petergs wrote:
         | Yeah agreed that there wasn't much information there.
         | 
         | Having investigated similar password spray attacks, I'm
         | guessing they just looked at the entire set of failed Azure CLI
         | logins from the same ASN (AS6939). Then that activity was
         | distinct enough from usual activity in the tenant to suspect
         | it's part of the same campaign (no prior logins from AS6939,
         | little to no legitimate use of Azure CLI, or the job profile of
         | the targeted users doesn't align with usage of Azure CLI).
        
         | 4gotunameagain wrote:
         | It seems like marketing blogspam.
         | 
         | Anyone can come up with multiple hypothetical scenarios and
         | fixes, share it, and as we see reach hn front page.
        
         | advisedwang wrote:
         | Probably look for other attacks from the same AS, geo-ip, or
         | some other proxy of being from that one datacenter.
        
       | Liftyee wrote:
       | From a non cybersec background, I'm surprised that attackers even
       | bother trying these attacks where each account only gets 2
       | attempts. To me, the probability of getting a hit feels
       | incredibly, unworkably low, unless there are lots of common
       | passwords being used.
       | 
       | I guess it's like most/all attacks under this category - the high
       | potential payoff on success and near-zero cost to execute keep
       | the EV positive.
        
         | hansvm wrote:
         | The success rate is also likely pretty high. You're not
         | necessarily restricted to just the entropy of a single
         | password, but depending on the attack vector it can be
         | conditioned on also knowing the account owner's identity or
         | username/email. Combine that property with the insane payoff of
         | uncappable Azure access, and this starts to look more
         | attractive.
        
         | SAI_Peregrinus wrote:
         | Usually they're trying username/password combinations that they
         | got from some other breach. They figure people often re-use
         | passwords, so using the same username & password on multiple
         | sites to try to log in often works. That's what a "password
         | spraying" attack is. Even if a breach forces people to change a
         | password they've used on one site they'll often not change it
         | on other sites, so this still tends to work.
        
           | jsnell wrote:
           | What you're describing is typically called credential
           | stuffing.
           | 
           | Password spraying is a distinct form of brute-forcing, where
           | there is no link between the password and the user, and the
           | yield is coming from the password being common.
        
         | ajb wrote:
         | Think about it this way: you are going to do N amount of work
         | (password trials) either each against a different account, or
         | all against the same account. Which is more likely to result in
         | a break?
         | 
         | If you try against the same account, for each trial you gain a
         | (very small) piece of information (that the account does not
         | use that password) which you can use in later trials, which
         | seems like an advantage over trials against different accounts,
         | where you don't gain this information.
         | 
         | But we also know that there are a significant number of
         | accounts using weak passwords. If you keep trying against the
         | same account, you will try the weak (high probability)
         | passwords first, but if they don't break the account then you
         | will run out of those and have to try low probability ones. But
         | if you try against different accounts, you can keep retesting
         | the high probability passwords. So trying against a different
         | account each time is almost certainly more efficient - as long
         | as you don't care about which account you break.
        
           | SideburnsOfDoom wrote:
           | > trials against different accounts, where you don't gain
           | this information (that the account does not use that
           | password)
           | 
           | I would think that you do gain this info, the question is
           | whether you record it for later use, which seems possible.
           | But the extra effort to do that is a downside.
           | 
           | The upside is of course that 1000 failed login attempts on 1
           | account is more likely to trigger alarms than 2 attempts on
           | each of 500 accounts.
        
         | InitialBP wrote:
         | I'm a former red teamer - Credential spraying attacks are
         | incredibly successful on a business that has at least a few
         | hundred employees. Many employees not only aren't aware of why
         | cybersecurity is important, but often go out of their way to
         | avoid learning or implementing security best practices because
         | they see it as an annoyance and a hindrance.
         | 
         | One of our most standard and most successful playbooks to find
         | a foothold:
         | 
         | 1. Pull employee names from linkedin
         | 
         | 2. Find an example email for format (first.last@company.com)
         | 
         | 3. Setup password spraying for a password like: Spring2025!
         | 
         | 4. Leverage a tool like https://github.com/ustayready/CredKing
         | to avoid IP blocking.
         | 
         | 5. Get credentials and go from there...
        
           | arcbyte wrote:
           | It seems like all the corporations that still ignore NIST
           | best practices and require password changes ever 60 days make
           | this kind of attack much more likely to succeed.
        
             | ptsneves wrote:
             | I havent been in a single company that does not force the
             | rotation of passwords. I worked in 4 different F500
             | companies.
        
               | mjevans wrote:
               | The company I _used_ to work at, I implemented exactly
               | that policy and only required rotation after a password
               | reset (like initial account assignment), and should it
               | have ever happened, after any sign of account or
               | credential breach.
               | 
               | I was so happy when NIST finally recognized that people
               | aren't machines and can't perfectly remember a new strong
               | password with high frequency.
        
               | robertlagrant wrote:
               | Yes, that is nice. Sadly some people will say things like
               | "HIPAA compliance requires password rotation", which is
               | I'm pretty sure wrong, but it happens. Still, we're
               | pushing the above NIST line as we're really keen on
               | improving actual security, and it's nice that it has the
               | force of NIST behind it now.
        
               | InitialBP wrote:
               | Glad to hear you guys are making progress. Password
               | rotation is definitely more of a hindrance than a help
               | and is a big reason that you end up with Spring2025!
               | style passwords for sure.
               | 
               | I think the industry is realizing that less is more when
               | it comes to passwords and we're starting to see far more
               | adoption of password managers and a bigger focus on
               | getting SAML/SSO login options for SaaS tools, even if
               | they are often gated behind paywalls or "enterprise" plan
               | options.
               | 
               | Now that I'm in a more "defensive" position my primary
               | focus on the credential front has been pushing password
               | manager adoption across the org and looking for good
               | opportunities to showcase that password managers are both
               | significantly faster and easier to use if people are
               | willing to change their workflow.
        
               | icameron wrote:
               | LOL Spring2025! is basically my password for an agency
               | that requires rotation every 42 days and doesn't allow
               | any repeats of the last 24 password. Further irony is the
               | pattern of SeasonYear! is something that I only started
               | doing when IT had to reset my password and they used that
               | pattern. (when the account automatically locked out
               | because I didn't update before their 42 days)... I am
               | completely convinced that mandatory password rotation is
               | counter productive
        
               | rwmj wrote:
               | The company my wife uses for annual PCI-DSS
               | recertification (a computer security / CC handling
               | certification) requires that the password be changed
               | every year. So that's once per login.
        
             | GoblinSlayer wrote:
             | I personally don't find password counting detrimental.
             | What's detrimental is SSO system that conflates local
             | access password with remote access password and then often
             | asks this password. Or has some kind of a dumb rule like
             | "lock the machine after 10 minutes of inactivity and ask
             | the remote password to be typed right on keyboard".
        
               | Spivak wrote:
               | Yep! The quickest way to get your users to use incredibly
               | weak passwords and make it so they must physically type
               | it all the time. I can have a 32 character password is
               | unmemorizable, untypable by mortals, and even having a
               | screenshot of it revealed would be a challenge to
               | decipher password for services exposed to the internet.
               | But I need something I can memorize, type with just
               | alphanumerics, and enter quickly for my lock screen.
        
             | mr_mitm wrote:
             | I agree that this recommendation is in general counter
             | productive, but the correct solution here is for the
             | corporation to require 2FA for all logins on the internet.
             | There will always be users who choose bad passwords.
        
           | g-b-r wrote:
           | If that's really the case it seems less bad to have the
           | company provide unchangeable passwords... (if they're unable
           | to switch to safer solutions)
        
         | ozim wrote:
         | You are right, lots of people are under impression that there
         | is a "dedicated attacker".
         | 
         | The reality is there are loads of "opportunistic attackers".
         | 
         | Then you also have to realize all is automated so there is no
         | one hand picking stuff so basically harvesters running over
         | those easy credentials. Successful ones are notified to the
         | attackers. So running those harvesters is low effort and low
         | investment - but even single one lucky hit can be a big payoff.
         | 
         | Then imagine big payoff for someone in 3rd world countries is
         | $100.
        
       | yellow_lead wrote:
       | That's great but why didn't you enable two factor authentication?
        
         | hombre_fatal wrote:
         | The general solution against this attack is to generate random
         | passwords for users, not force them into 2FA (for more
         | annoying).
        
       | kazinator wrote:
       | "Out of my 24 user accounts, all of whose names are known to
       | attackers somehow, one got hacked after two attempts. So I think
       | the best course of action is to write a blog about how clever I
       | am with 'log slicing'."
        
       | grayhatter wrote:
       | In the context of security, IPv6 has no meaningful granularity
       | below /64. Seconds of research will also show how cheap it is to
       | get a /48 as well. Everytime I see full IPv6 addresses as if they
       | were meaningful at that resolution, I die just a little bit on
       | the inside. Policy issues with filtering by country of origin
       | aside; ASN would be a better filter here over country of origin.
       | 
       | It's also unclear why using a /48 helps evade their indicators of
       | compromise detection?
       | 
       | > Takeaway: Looking at User Activity Timelines Isn't Enough
       | 
       | I mean, obviously? You'd only look at a users timeline if a user
       | was compromised. Looking at users timeline looking for infra
       | attacks is like studying the rings on a tree you just cut down,
       | as a means to determine if the forest is on fire.
       | 
       | As a whole this intro to security detection doesn't fill me with
       | a ton of confidence... Everything here is exclusively
       | superficial.
        
       | barbazoo wrote:
       | https://owasp.org/www-community/attacks/Password_Spraying_At...
       | 
       | > Password spraying is a type of brute force attack. In this
       | attack, an attacker will brute force logins based on list of
       | usernames with default passwords on the application. For example,
       | an attacker will use one password (say, Secure@123) against many
       | different accounts on the application to avoid account lockouts
       | that would normally occur when brute forcing a single account
       | with many passwords.
       | 
       | > This attack can be found commonly where the application or
       | admin sets a default password for the new users.
        
       | jsnell wrote:
       | I'm not convinced. Password spraying attacks have a very low
       | yield, and need high volume to compensate. 24 attempts per week
       | is just not viable.
        
         | Damogran6 wrote:
         | You just need one.
        
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       (page generated 2025-03-31 23:01 UTC)