[HN Gopher] Raising Kids to Have an Analog Childhood in a Digita...
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       Raising Kids to Have an Analog Childhood in a Digital World
        
       Author : walterbell
       Score  : 70 points
       Date   : 2025-03-30 19:51 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.joshuakennon.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.joshuakennon.com)
        
       | jajko wrote:
       | Hmm, where we live (western Switzerland), this is the default
       | among basically all parents we know. Locals, immigrants, doesn't
       | matter. Not every single thing in same way as article, but cca
       | same ideas and approach. Simply reasonable.
       | 
       | Any digital screen is simply too intense stimulus for those
       | little minds and leads to passivity. Human mind is wired
       | internally to create habits -> addictions naturally. And most
       | stuff in those screens is highly addictive, even without going
       | into the topic of brain and soul cancer that all social platforms
       | are in one way or another (and many here are even proud of
       | contributing, then folks wonder how trump can happen
       | repeatedly... the trail in US is long but ie reality shows are
       | one of the stepping stones - stuff mostly marginal here). Also
       | time spent on screen is the time spent alone, no social
       | interaction. Not the best idea for developing mind.
       | 
       | Its true that our circles are mostly university-educated folks
       | but not only. Expecting different behavior in families of say car
       | mechanics or prison guard on average. We know one local farmer
       | family and they do same as we do.
        
         | dzhiurgis wrote:
         | Same here in NZ, although I think our peers are biased. Ranging
         | from home-schooled home-birthers with 0 screen time to hybrid
         | schoolers with perhaps 1 hour per week screen time (for toddler
         | age).
         | 
         | My kids get more screen time (TV) now in school and daycare as
         | we do not own at home lol.
        
         | kuahyeow wrote:
         | OP does not ban digital screens despite the title. They even
         | play video games !
         | 
         | It's more the en-shittification of the Internet, and other
         | media.
        
       | kurthr wrote:
       | I guess it's nice if you want to have that much control over your
       | kid's time.
       | 
       | I wouldn't worry about Tiktok till they're 10 anyway, but by then
       | highschool or homeschool will be the big question. Teaching them
       | to be in control of their own environment and emotions is one
       | thing, but "there's a time and place for everything. It's called
       | college". Maybe building an informational immune system when
       | they're younger will help, or not.
        
       | gizajob wrote:
       | What's listed below is too much - ok we're being analogue and
       | curating more naturalistic play, but restricting play like this
       | is getting a bit draconian. Kids occasionally need to hit each
       | other. Many great artists sometimes have to "destroy" books to
       | get them into a different form where they can be inspired by
       | them. Musicians smash and otherwise derange their instruments.
       | Asking gross questions, even as a way of challenging rules and
       | boundaries, isn't going to kill anyone. Basquiat, for example,
       | drew on the walls of a small cupboard in his home, a practice
       | that stretched out onto the walls of the city streets, and then
       | onto canvases that now sell for $150,000,000.
       | 
       | --------
       | 
       | The playroom itself, in contrast, has only a couple of rules:
       | 
       | If the playroom gets too messy to the point it is a tripping
       | hazard, everything stops and they have to clean it up (which
       | really only occurs a few times a week since they are pretty good
       | about managing the space). They cannot destroy or harm their
       | books, they must show them respect, They cannot mark on the walls
       | or furniture, They cannot run in the house or jump off of
       | furniture or towers they build, They cannot hit each other, and
       | They cannot speak harshly to one another, which includes
       | requiring them to say, "Thank you," "Please", etc. Throughout
       | your life, your family should be the one rock you depend upon and
       | that you know will always have your back if times get tough. We
       | support each other, we don't fight or say things in frustration.
       | They cannot talk about gross topics at the dinner table. They
       | have to wait until they are finished eating and allowed to get
       | up, then it's fair game, again. That way, they are being
       | considerate of other people.
       | 
       | P.S. for portfolio sizes between $500,000 and PS10,000,000 how is
       | there better advice than "invest in an S&P500 ETF"?
       | 
       | P.P.S. What's wrong with the emotion of frustration? It's as
       | valid as any other emotion even if you don't like the way it
       | might manifest.
        
         | techpineapple wrote:
         | I think of myself as relatively laid back, but these rules
         | don't seem that bad to me, maybe it depends on age? I probably
         | wouldn't let my <10 year old destroy a book, certainly not from
         | poor impulse control, but I'd probably let me teen due so,
         | particularly for an art project. And hitting people? It may not
         | be totally abnormal to experience a little aggression, but I
         | don't really think it's a parents place to let it go either.
        
         | hnlmorg wrote:
         | I don't think any of those rules were unreasonable. In fact I'd
         | say they were pretty common in England.
         | 
         | I can't think of anyone who would be ok with kids drawing on
         | the walls.
         | 
         | And saying "please" and "thank you" is just common decency. If
         | you can't show your own family that level of respect then how
         | are you going to treat anyone else?
         | 
         | That all said, I don't agree with the core premise of the
         | article about limiting digital content purely because it's
         | digital. You can have "analogue" play with kids _and_ still
         | allow them to consume TV, play games on a tablet, etc.
         | 
         | It's about getting the balance right. Kids need exposure to
         | digital content to learn self control for starters. And they
         | need to understand what content is safe and what is not. If
         | parents are banning digital content wholesale then kids will
         | learn these lessons the hard way in adulthood.
         | 
         | And in my experience, most kids want a balance of analogue and
         | digital play anyway. Younger kids want to spend time riding
         | bikes, plays sports and/or board/card games with their parents.
         | They want experiences with their parents.
         | 
         | So you can have the best of both worlds here.
        
         | wingworks wrote:
         | Re your investing question, I'm not OP, but gone pretty deep
         | into retirement investing. If you belief is that the US will
         | continue to outperform other countries then S&P500 (VOO) is
         | your best option. If however you're not sure the US will
         | outperform other countries, then VT (world) is the best option.
         | It'll automatically rebalance as countries have larger/smaller
         | GDP etc. Thus VT is the safer option.
         | 
         | And then there is the question if you'll sleep well being 100%
         | stocks (be it VOO or VT), if you don't then you may need to
         | have a split of stocks and bonds. Bonds will usually "smooth"
         | out the ride, but at the cost of returns. But if you sell your
         | 100% shares when stocks tank, which they will (like now), then
         | you won't get the best return from being 100% shares. (aka, you
         | can't time the market).
         | 
         | Also, there are a bunch of things you can do to maximize your
         | tax efficiency when investing for retirement. Depending on the
         | country your in.
         | 
         | I didn't look into what exactly joshuakennon company does, but
         | appears to be active investing in value companies. But
         | statistically speaking, most companies trying to beat the index
         | (active investing) under perform it long term (and usually
         | charge high fees for the pleasure). Maybe these guys are the
         | exception, nobody will know, till it's too late.
         | 
         | Thus passive/index investing is the safest long term bet. (e.g.
         | VT or VOO being the lowest cost ETFs for those types of
         | investments)
         | 
         | Edit, checked there disclosure PDFs, sounds like you're paying
         | a pretty high on-going fee for financial advice, and for them
         | to buy VOO for you, for example. They seem to offer Passive
         | investments, but also the fee is well above say Vanguard.
         | They're also not very forthcoming with how well there "value
         | investing" does, compared to others offering the same or an
         | index. Kinda a red flag.
         | 
         | If you want investment advice, see an adviser who charges a
         | flat fee for your meetings with them, this is fine, but don't
         | go with anyone (like these guys) who charge a % portfolio fee,
         | every year. They will be the ones getting rich, not you.
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | The house looks like it was staged for sale, not a place anyone
       | lives.
       | 
       | If you want grounded kids, and can afford it, get them into
       | horses and ponies. The kids I see around barns all have
       | smartphones, but don't use them for timepass.
        
         | teg4n_ wrote:
         | even the design of the website looks like it should for a
         | funeral home
        
           | walterbell wrote:
           | _> global asset management firm that specializes in helping
           | affluent and high net worth individuals, families, and
           | institutions invest their capital around the world._
        
         | ohgr wrote:
         | The house looks fucking awful. I mean my place basically is an
         | IKEA show room and it looks more like a home.
        
       | chongli wrote:
       | Question for parents:
       | 
       | Is this era, where parents create an entire world for their
       | children, unprecedented in history? I know that parents have
       | sheltered their children to varying degrees throughout history
       | but now it seems way more extreme than it's ever been before.
       | 
       | What is going on here? Are we totally rejecting the society we've
       | built for ourselves? Where do we go from here?
        
         | lqet wrote:
         | > I know that parents have sheltered their children to varying
         | degrees throughout history but now it seems way more extreme
         | than it's ever been before.
         | 
         | This seems like an upper class issue, and the upper classes
         | (especially aristocracy) have always carefully sheltered their
         | children from the real world. Most parents, myself included, do
         | not have the time to contemplate such questions. They are too
         | busy improvising their way through raising a child.
        
         | ohgr wrote:
         | Not really doing that with my kids. It's important to nudge
         | them in the right direction but that's about it. Any absolutist
         | things are not helpful as they build resentment and resistance.
         | Constructive discussions and teaching them to reflect is
         | important.
         | 
         | I mean my youngest got into Roblox for a bit (talking weeks).
         | Yeah fine with that, with one eye open. One day someone stole
         | all her shit and her friend was an asshole on the same day. Sat
         | down and talked about virtual items and grinding games and life
         | generally. She never touched it again!
        
         | kortilla wrote:
         | >Is this era, where parents create an entire world for their
         | children, unprecedented in history?
         | 
         | I'm not sure exactly what you mean here, but people born in
         | rural areas in the early 1900s were extremely sheltered from an
         | intellectual perspective.
         | 
         | With travel being so much more difficult and no TV, things as
         | simple as seeing a picture of New York were mind-blowing.
        
           | chongli wrote:
           | _I'm not sure exactly what you mean here, but people born in
           | rural areas in the early 1900s were extremely sheltered from
           | an intellectual perspective._
           | 
           | Right but that was not deliberate. People lived in rural
           | areas and that's where their kids grew up. They weren't
           | trying to _engineer_ a rural lifestyle for their kids in
           | order to produce some particular desired outcome.
        
         | MarcelOlsz wrote:
         | >What is going on here? Are we totally rejecting the society
         | we've built for ourselves? Where do we go from here?
         | 
         | Internet decimated subcultures now we're stuck in a weird
         | reflection loop with the internet and real life.
        
         | ewzimm wrote:
         | When you shelter your children from the world to an extreme
         | degree, you end up getting one of the most popular stories in
         | both Europe and Asia for the last 2500 years:
         | 
         | https://theconversation.com/how-the-buddha-became-a-christia...
        
           | theGnuMe wrote:
           | [delayed]
        
       | KaiserPro wrote:
       | I mean thats great, but it sounds an awful lot like someone
       | boasting about owning a race horse.
       | 
       | Sure stopping your kids having access to youtube and tiktok is a
       | good thing, a great thing even. A soul mirror is a dangerous
       | thing for an impressionable mind.
       | 
       | But it feels like none of this post is actually about protecting
       | kids, its more about showing off how cultured the author is.
       | Which is fun when seeing a mishmash of french/english 18th
       | century furniture with incorrectly hung paintings.
       | 
       | Look social media is corrosive. There is a reason why the skill
       | of an editor makes or breaks a media company. There is no editor
       | in social media, only you. But to mix up anti-social media with a
       | half baked aesthetic is just bollocks.
       | 
       | The irony is, the aesthetic is an analogue, its an analogue of an
       | english/french town house. As remembered by someone who goes
       | "what image does this project" rather than "do I like it"
       | 
       | The artwork on the walls is not going to make up for being raised
       | by a succession of nannies, or going to a school surrounded by
       | exceptionally rich and emotionally damaged kids.
       | 
       | If you want to raise your kids in an "analogue world" You need to
       | be there. Otherwise you're just outsourcing your kids world view
       | to zuckerberg et al.
        
         | wingworks wrote:
         | I grew up without TV, computer, Playstation etc in a fairly
         | rural area. It was great most of the time, till I had to go to
         | school. I spent most of my time at home or around the farm, and
         | my 2 other siblings. Very rare to see others outside our fam.
         | And if anyone did visit I would hide from them, not knowing how
         | to interact with them. I never learnt how to socialize, and was
         | very shy as a kid (and still am to a degree). I was even afraid
         | to enter shops, and would only go into ones I had been to
         | before with parents, if I had to. Wasn't till my early 20s that
         | I built up enough courage to enter new stores without intense
         | fear.
         | 
         | I started off at a school which I was bullied allot, never
         | learnt anything, eventually was pulled and put into a
         | traditional state school where I did much better (but far
         | behind other kids). Though still bullied a bit, but teachers
         | there actually cared, most bullying didn't last.
         | 
         | But once I got to High School (and to a degree primary) having
         | such a different upbringing to all the other kids made it very
         | hard to make any friends. Or have anything to in-common to talk
         | about. It also made parts of learning in school harder, because
         | teachers would talk about xyz pop culture that 99% of kids knew
         | about (e.g. popular movies), and I was just like.. what, I've
         | never seen that.
         | 
         | The last 1-2 years of school once I was allowed a computer I
         | had no self control, and binge watched SOO much tv/movies, in
         | an attempt to catch up to kids my age, and have something to
         | talk about. It would take many years to get it mostly under
         | control.
         | 
         | I think for my kinda upbringing to work, you need to live
         | somewhere where everyone is doing it too, otherwise it's a
         | painful upbringing for the kids, which effects them for life,
         | in a bad way in my case.
         | 
         | Maybe there is a middle ground to take here that would work
         | better, idk.
        
         | soupfordummies wrote:
         | Yeah it really went took a hard left turn into interior design
         | about halfway through, LOL
        
       | casey2 wrote:
       | Having all the neoluddit posts on a tech site, especially one
       | that involve children is very disconcerting.
       | 
       | Please don't ruin your child's life based on things you read on
       | the internet. Just go with the flow.
        
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       (page generated 2025-03-30 23:00 UTC)