[HN Gopher] The Child and the Shadow (1975) [pdf]
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The Child and the Shadow (1975) [pdf]
        
       Author : lolinder
       Score  : 71 points
       Date   : 2025-03-30 15:49 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.johnirons.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.johnirons.com)
        
       | WillAdams wrote:
       | Is this included in:
       | 
       | https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/199798061-the-language-o...
        
         | Jtsummers wrote:
         | Yes.
        
       | yarnover wrote:
       | If you have access to JSTOR, the essay (with better formatting)
       | is available here: https://www.jstor.org/stable/29781619
        
       | andrei_says_ wrote:
       | Related,
       | 
       | The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas
       | 
       | ought to be mandatory reading for every adult in the Western
       | world.
       | 
       | https://shsdavisapes.pbworks.com/f/Omelas.pdf
        
         | tanepiper wrote:
         | I've already used it as an example when talking to some people
         | about our technology choices.
         | 
         | Sometimes - to be able to live in the societies we do, we have
         | to accept that there's very little choice. But if you live in
         | full awareness that every choice you make to participate in it,
         | there is a cost and effect that someone else has to experience.
         | 
         | One is example is Social Media moderators - for us to not see
         | the worst of humanity, they have to experience it for us and
         | make a decision that literally can manipulate people's opinions
         | and preferences
        
           | asdffdasy wrote:
           | Except it is about colonization and social classes.
        
             | mandmandam wrote:
             | It's not about any one thing. It's a thought experiment
             | about the moral compromises societies make, and the
             | emotional responses people have toward such compromises.
        
       | ww520 wrote:
       | Ursula's work was one of my favorite reads in my teenage years.
       | Earthsea opened me to the world of fantasy novels. The Left Hand
       | of Darkness was a difficult read at the time, but I greatly
       | appreciated it in the later years. I wished she had written more.
        
         | rendaw wrote:
         | I remembered liking them when I was a kid, but I just tried
         | reading A Wizard of Earthsea again and it was just "Ged went
         | here" "Ged learned that" "These people didn't like Ged" etc.
         | Does it get better later?
         | 
         | This right after mixing up Anne McCaffrey and Ursula K Le Guin
         | and finding out that the Pern series was just fetish dragon
         | smut.
        
           | timonoko wrote:
           | Ursula was one book wonder, methinks.
           | 
           | And so was Gardner Dozois, whose "Strangers" was eerily
           | similar to "Left Hand of Darkness".
        
             | WillAdams wrote:
             | For a person whose oeuvre includes _A Wizard of Earthsea_,
             | _The Left Hand of Darkness_, and _The Lathe of Heaven_, I
             | would gainsay that.
        
             | alangou wrote:
             | She is one of the great American novelists. She's won 8
             | Hugo's. There's the Dispossessed, a great novel.
        
               | timonoko wrote:
               | I forgot the Dispossessed. So Ursula is now two book
               | wonder.
        
           | hyperbolablabla wrote:
           | She said she purposefully wrote in a simplistic style to
           | mimic the traditional epics she was familiar with, like
           | Beowulf. The books were supposed to have a wide appeal, and
           | evoke that sense of the archetypal struggle between good and
           | evil.
           | 
           | I personally love the style, even as an adult - it's a very
           | easy read, but the world of earthsea, true names, and it's
           | daoist philosophy is very appealing to me. It was the first
           | of its kind, and really established the idea of "balance" in
           | the fantasy genre.
           | 
           | The books definitely do get more sophisticated, though, both
           | thematically and stylistically. But ultimately it's going to
           | be a purely subjective experience, as these things always
           | are.
        
             | rendaw wrote:
             | I didn't realize it was intentional! Though, I think
             | Beowulf is notable to a significant degree for its historic
             | context...
             | 
             | I think the mention of daoist philosophy is interesting.
             | Those works are very direct too, but I think (from a
             | Western perspective) there's a huge amount "between the
             | lines", both due to missing cultural context and refinement
             | over generations of tradition, which means that while the
             | writing is simple the meaning and implications are vast and
             | complex.
             | 
             | Aside from the name thing though, I'm not sure I got that
             | from the first book. Especially since most of the actions
             | listed in it are very concrete.
        
       | FjordWarden wrote:
       | I was shocked after listening to this story by her, probably the
       | best psycho horror I know:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5637siSxu-E
       | 
       | SPOILER: Most commentaries seem to cast this as a story about the
       | evil of utilitarianism, and that sort of us true if you take the
       | narrator at his word, but I think the genius of the story is that
       | at the end you start to realise how delusional the narrator is.
       | It there in the title and at the final sentence, "it is the ones
       | that walked away" that the narrator does not understand while you
       | as the reader fully sympathise with them.
        
       | 01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote:
       | > The great fantasies, myths, and tales are indeed like dreams:
       | they speak from the unconscious to the unconscious, in the
       | language of the unconscious - symbol and archetype.
       | 
       | The bookend narration of 2011 film Sucker Punch mentions such a
       | thing.
       | 
       | > Though they use words, they work the way music does: they
       | short-circuit verbal reasoning, and go straight to the thoughts
       | that lie too deep to utter.
       | 
       | I appreciated music more after someone pointed out that music is
       | the most evocative art form. Paintings can look realistic, movies
       | can be based on real stories, video games can feel immersive, but
       | music is almost never _like_ anything. I like that.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2025-03-30 23:01 UTC)