[HN Gopher] When the physicists need burner phones, that's when ...
___________________________________________________________________
When the physicists need burner phones, that's when you know
America's changed
Author : giuliomagnifico
Score : 218 points
Date : 2025-03-29 18:45 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theguardian.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theguardian.com)
| whatshisface wrote:
| One of the important things to watch for is the linkup of the
| papers please people with the internet scanners. Right now they
| seem to be limited to seizing your personal effects, but that is
| a matter of coordination between departments of the government.
| If there are laws against it, they are adjacent to other laws
| which were ignored even in previous years. Once that occurs the
| use of professional use devices will not make the crossing safe.
| FredPret wrote:
| Sounds like a social credit score derived from your entire
| online identity.
|
| I hope that picture of reality stays in Black Mirror.
|
| It would represent a huge decline in personal liberty in the
| West so I'm betting it will be so unpopular as to be
| impossible, especially as older voters are replaced by digital
| natives who are aware of the problem.
| tdeck wrote:
| > I'm betting it will be so unpopular as to be impossible
|
| People have said the same thing about gutting Social
| Security, but it seems like that's on the chopping block
| right now unfortunately.
| FredPret wrote:
| Social Security is very popular but hasn't been baked into
| the Western soul for the past 1-2k years like the idea of
| personal agency & liberty has.
|
| In addition, SS requires a budget so is more open to
| controversy. Respecting individuals is free; violating
| their rights requires a budget as well.
| Avshalom wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_slave_trade Whose
| personal agency and liberty?
| FredPret wrote:
| Slavery was always widespread; it was Westerners who saw
| the moral inconsistency between their self-image and
| owning slaves, and then fought wars with one another and
| others to end it globally.
|
| The journey from serfdom to modern human rights was a
| long one, but it had a clear upward trend.
| gessha wrote:
| > personal agency & liberty
|
| Those two were very suppressed under monarchy and the
| Christian religion. It wasn't until modern secularism
| that those two truly blossomed.
| FredPret wrote:
| Even so there were clear steps in the right direction.
|
| Monarchs grew steadily more circumscribed from a _de
| jure_ point of view. Eventually they became
| constitutional monarchs, then mere figureheads. Their _de
| facto_ power also went from absolute steadily downward.
|
| The same trend happened with Christianity: at one time
| the Pope was so powerful, he broke up the Holy Roman
| Empire. But there were many reformations, revolutions,
| Protestantism.
|
| There's a clear trend of decentralization across the
| entire West, spanning a thousand years - because of
| individuals insisting on what we now call their
| inalienable human rights.
| tdb7893 wrote:
| I think we're seeing right now that at least a decent
| fraction (even if it's not half) would be for it as long as
| it targets the right people. I think it's a mistake to think
| people in general are very tied to specific civil liberties
| for other people.
| thrance wrote:
| Everything can be made popular through the right wing
| propaganda pipeline, given enough times. Republicans are now
| happy to see medicaid and medicare taken away, tariffs
| imposed on everything they buy...
| tdeck wrote:
| Indeed, in 5 years we'll have centrist "thought leaders"
| telling us that maybe we should give up on women's suffrage
| because it's a losing issue.
| netsharc wrote:
| Your comment assumes the sanctity of elections...
|
| How much can I win betting the 2026 or 2028 elections will
| look more Russia-like (or Turkey-like) vs. an election that
| could be called "free and fair"?
| epistasis wrote:
| This is already happening to find out who has been supporting
| Palenstinians in Gaza, and conflating that as support for
| Hamas, and then deporting people.
|
| Permanent residents a people with student visas are advised to
| not travel due to the risks or arbitrary detention, search of
| social media, and deportation on trumped up charges. This
| researcher, asked to carry frog embryos by her advisor in the
| way back from France, has been detained becuase od the
| paperwork around them and may be deported to a hostile nation
| on those grounds:
|
| https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/27/russian-scie...
|
| I only link to this one because it's closest to my very narrow
| area of biology but this sort of thing is happening daily and
| on even more egregious grounds.
|
| We currently live in an authoritarian state, we just don't all
| realize it equally, _yet_.
| renewiltord wrote:
| The people opposing these things do themselves a serious
| disservice by conflating someone who attended the funeral of the
| top guy of a designated terrorist group with the biologist moving
| biomaterial between research labs.
|
| Now every time I hear one of these stories I'm just waiting for
| the other shoe to drop and hear about how the frog biologist
| attended Prigozhin's funeral (purely out of recognition for his
| work as a chef, of course)
| whatshisface wrote:
| There are in reality only two types of actions, those that are
| illegal, and those that you think you have every right to do.
| renewiltord wrote:
| Fair enough, the government has every right to deport the
| frog biologist. It's not illegal for them to do so.
| Regardless, I think they should not have.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| I must've missed all the people we deported for attending
| IRA funerals.
| rsoto2 wrote:
| Right, because the entire US/Israeli/NATO apparatus isn't
| responsible for terrorizing and murdering tens of _thousands_
| of children in Palestine. No, that is a just execution of
| children, surely, at least that's what a dutiful netizen
| believes.
| renewiltord wrote:
| I think it would be unsurprising to me if Palestine deported
| an American who attended an Israeli general's funeral. I'd
| say "hmm, yeah, makes sense".
| umanwizard wrote:
| The Palestinian Authority doesn't control who is allowed to
| enter and live there; Israel does. So "Palestine" has no
| way to deport anyone.
| khazhoux wrote:
| Then replace "Palestine" with the name of any nearby
| nation.
| tdeck wrote:
| We've got US Senator John Fetterman making a trip to Israel
| to get a silver plated pager from Netanyahu and publicly joke
| about a terrorist attack that killed children. The US is
| surreal sometimes.
| timewizard wrote:
| > who attended the funeral of the top guy of a designated
| terrorist group
|
| Designated by whom? I personally have never once felt "terror"
| from the existence of Hamas nor do I feel confronted by those
| who would go to the funerals of it's leaders.
| tqi wrote:
| By the government of this country and many others.
| timewizard wrote:
| It was by the US State Department in 1997.
|
| Those are either some seriously tricky terrorists or this
| designation was never meaningful to the citizens of this
| country.
| 141205 wrote:
| Wonderful, now we're at a point where Hacker News has people
| defending a fundamentalist antisemitic hate group that's
| quite literally performed suicide bombings and launched
| rockets at civilians.
|
| Maybe you haven't felt terror from them because you aren't
| one of the innocent Jewish civilians who have been
| deliberately targeted. Can you go back to reddit where your
| similarly deranged opinions are tolerated, and stay off of
| what is meant to be a relatively sane forum?
| tqi wrote:
| Who said Ted Bundy was a serial killer? Never murdered me,
| so...
| tdeck wrote:
| Ah, the old trope of pretending to give a movement advice so
| they don't "do a disservice" to their cause, advice which just
| happens to be about throwing marginalized people under the bus
| yet again.
|
| It's as transparent as it is craven. In the 1960s 50% of white
| people polled said that MLK was hurting the effort for civil
| rights. It's because they didn't want to want those civil
| rights to begin with, in the same way that you're clearly
| totally cool with the genocide and don't want rights for those
| who opposed it.
| jimbob45 wrote:
| Would these people feel the same if he'd attended Hitler's
| funeral rather than a Hamas funeral?
| freen wrote:
| True advocate for freedom of speech here.
| tialaramex wrote:
| "In accordance with Hitler's wishes, their corpses were
| carried outside to the garden behind the Reich Chancellery,
| where they were placed in a bomb crater, doused with petrol,
| and set on fire"
|
| I would describe attending this "funeral" as merely "arriving
| too late". Hitler was dead, Germany was in ruins.
|
| I'd have more questions about somebody who travelled for the
| funeral of Levrentiy Beria, because it appears some people
| (unaware, or deliberately without thinking about what Hitler
| had ordered done) liked Hitler, I can't find any records of
| people who liked Beria, they only feared him.
| pmags wrote:
| I'm a US scientist and the use of minimalist phone and a laptop
| is something I'm planning for all my travel.
|
| This is for the simple reason that I have determined, based on a
| large body of cases that are accumulating at a disturbing rate,
| that the current US administration considers themselves "above
| the law". Furthermore, the administration has shown that they are
| eager to carry out actions that violate due process and freedom
| of speech against anyone they perceive as opposing their
| policies/views.
|
| EDIT: I'm happy to document such cases for those who have not
| been paying attention, but I also encourage those who are
| doubtful to simply search the many examples that have been posted
| here on HN (unfortunately, many flagged in an attempt to suppress
| discussion).
| dataflow wrote:
| Do you not feel unsafe sharing this publicly?
| whatshisface wrote:
| That is not really relevant, because you sort of have to say
| what's true whatever happens to you, as required at the
| intersection of the duties of a scientist, of a citizen of a
| republic, and even on the basis of the basic tenants of the
| country's majority religion. In some sense to live a steady
| life you have to be resigned to potential misfortunes, even
| if you do not want them to happen to you.
| roxolotl wrote:
| I've been struggling with this. I've recently started using
| a new handle as a way to distance myself a bit. I wouldn't
| expect it to hold up under scrutiny though. And then I
| wonder about the moral obligation to say what is right. So
| is it worth, or even morally right, to create a new
| pseudoanoynomous identity?
| lantry wrote:
| It is easier to change your behavior, but it is better to
| change your government.
| stevenAthompson wrote:
| We can not change the government without changing the
| people, and the people do not want to change.
| mfuzzey wrote:
| why? Serious question - as a European I'm really baffled
| by the US these days?
| stevenAthompson wrote:
| I can only speculate, but I suspect it's related to our
| infantilization. A proper democracy requires an informed
| and rational electorate, and we just don't have that.
|
| As I said elsewhere in this post, most adults now read
| below the sixth grade level. Popular media has been
| getting shorter and shorter, all while relying less and
| less on the printed word. Meanwhile the most popular news
| sources are targeted to people with the comprehension and
| reading skills of children, and the most popular movies
| are literally based on children's comic books. Hell,
| video games outsell movies by an ever increasing margin
| and the majority of adults now find it
| impossible/unpleasant to sit through even an entire comic
| book film without checking their cell phones. Even music
| has become increasing simple and repetitive, designed not
| to challenge the listener. Our shared culture is almost
| entirely the culture of children.
|
| So then, do we really expect these adult-sized children
| to be capable of facing down hard choices, or making
| rational informed decisions? No, they accept the
| "obvious" (but often incorrect) answers offered by
| charlatans and simpletons in lieu of genuine reason and
| the hard work of finding actual (and often painful)
| solutions for the very messy real world.
| masfuerte wrote:
| I find it unpleasant to sit through an entire comic book
| film. The problem is not my attention span.
| giraffe_lady wrote:
| I don't mean this in a shitty way but how much of what
| you know about the US comes from recent (say last 40
| years) media and culture sources?
|
| Because if you read into its history, I mean we started
| with a genocide and chattel slavery. Then created &
| implemented an entirely novel and comprehensive social-
| legal framework to justify and manage an apartheid
| society for another few generations. Lynching was a
| beloved public spectacle just a century ago. Hitler &
| Hendrik Verwoerd looked to us for inspiration.
|
| I'm american and not particularly an america-hater
| overall, I could create an equivalent list of positive
| things we've accomplished. But both are true, and the
| above are facts. What's happening now has always been
| part of our country too. We have never really reckoned
| with this, and it will keep coming back until we do.
| whatshisface wrote:
| One of the biggest signs that nobody knows was the
| difficulty of predicting the outcome of the past
| election.
| muzzledman wrote:
| >> it is better to change your government.
|
| Not really possible in the US since 2023. Specific
| political speech, even writing op-eds, has been
| criminalized or black-list-worthy by both sides of the
| political spectrum -- democrat and and republican.
| pk-protect-ai wrote:
| Wait... Trump did it, and he violates the constitution
| every day since he took office... The democrats and
| republicans are irrelevant already. He and those money
| behind him, already changing the government. Do I get it
| wrong?
| lukan wrote:
| "So is it worth, or even morally right, to create a new
| pseudoanoynomous identity?"
|
| It is your life, you choose your battles.
|
| But if not enough dare to speak their mind openly, then
| this will be the new normal.
| stevenAthompson wrote:
| Fifty four percent of American adults read below the
| equivalent of a sixth-grade level. The situation in
| America is not some temporary aberration, it is a
| permanent change in the status quo.
|
| Anti-intellectual populism is the new normal, and any
| thinking person who values their safety should be
| weighing anonymity and silence as viable options.
| whatshisface wrote:
| The Bolsheviks didn't want people who got the message and
| shut up. They were extremely paranoid about them. They
| wanted people who had been raised in the new system or
| who had supported it when the choice was free. I don't
| think that self-interest is morally right as a guiding
| principle or that people who have written things as
| clearly "aware" as your comment have the option you're
| suggesting.
| stevenAthompson wrote:
| I understand and respect your moral position, I just feel
| that I have an even stronger moral requirement to take
| care of myself and my family first, and I think that
| others should do the same.
|
| As the stewardesses say, you should always put on your
| own oxygen mask first.
| whatshisface wrote:
| Sure, but nobody is going to read that comment and think,
| "this guy is a solid Bolshevik."
| stevenAthompson wrote:
| You're not wrong.
| kenfox wrote:
| I wonder if the low literacy rate is partly an artifact
| of non-English speakers. The 54% stat seems to come from
| PIAAC which only evaluates English literacy in the US
| https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/faq.asp
|
| The US hasn't historically had high literacy rates though
| I definitely agree we are back to McCarthy levels of
| anti-intellectualism. Probably worse.
| geoduck14 wrote:
| >Fifty four percent of American adults read below the
| equivalent of a sixth-grade level
|
| I have a 4th grade child. When she was in 3rd grade, I
| realized that a 3rd grade education allows you to
| function in _many_ different forms. A 3rd grade reading
| level is more than enough for living in nearly every
| situation.
|
| I would hope that full grown adults develop other
| "intellect" skills that help them in life, but as far as
| reading level - 3rd grade is plenty.
| stevenAthompson wrote:
| It is incredibly relevant.
|
| Thomas Payne published "Common Sense" anonymously, and had
| that not happened the United States may not exist. It is a
| relatively obvious fact that there can be no freedom of
| speech without anonymous speech. Especially in the face of
| tyranny.
| javajosh wrote:
| I agree that anonymous speech is an important right in
| free societies. A novel attack on such a right in the
| Internet Age is to allow so much speech, anonymous or
| otherwise, ensure that most of it of is of very low
| quality, that thoughtful criticisms are ignored or, more
| accurately, overlooked. A related attack is to "flood the
| zone with shit", low-quality but emotionally resonant
| criticisms of speech, generated by hired humans and/or
| software. (Anecdotally most readers will see any coherent
| pushback as a signal about the OP's veracity.)
| kmeisthax wrote:
| "Censorship through free speech", in other words.
| lovich wrote:
| It's just a special case of signal jamming.
|
| If you add enough random energy to any channel, it
| becomes impossible to filter signal from noise
| kragen wrote:
| This is what Shannon disproved in the paper that founded
| information theory. It never becomes impossible, even at
| a fixed signal power; the noise reduces the channel
| capacity, but never to zero.
|
| https://people.math.harvard.edu/~ctm/home/text/others/sha
| nno...
| lovich wrote:
| Ok, I'll retract my statement from "impossible" to "what
| the layman would refer to as impossible when you take
| into account resource constraints"
| kragen wrote:
| The layman, almost by definition, would refer to most
| things as impossible until he sees them done; then he
| takes them for granted because he has no idea how
| difficult they were. His opinion about the difficulty or
| resource requirements of any feat is worthless.
| javajosh wrote:
| Yes. I'd be curious to know how resistance movements deal
| with this problem in other regimes. How do (did?) Navalny
| or Imamoglu supporters organize, for example? Is it
| simply Telegram & Signal? How does one spread a message
| to the public under such a regime, via pamphlets? Does it
| work to share "anonymously" on a foreign-hosted platform?
| Asking for a friend.
| whatshisface wrote:
| By not relevant, I mean that while you can use incentives
| to design a fair society that encourages other people to
| do right, that's not how you can decide what to do for
| yourself when the environment for the purposes of an
| individual choice has already been determined.
| godelski wrote:
| First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out--
| because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the
| trade unionists, and I did not speak out--because I was not a
| trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I
| did not speak out--because I was not a Jew. Then they
| came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.
| --Martin Niemoller
|
| At some point you have to be brave and face your fears. If
| you do not, then the light slowly dies and the darkness
| grows. By putting your head down and hiding you protect
| yourself but empower the very thing you are hiding from. It
| is a classic fallacy as you are taking short term rewards at
| a much higher cost in the long run. What you gain you borrow
| from the future, interest applies. However
| vast the darkness, we must supply our own light. -
| Stanley Kubrick
| dataflow wrote:
| The question wasn't about "speaking out", it was about
| publicly disclosing your own strategy. You can do one
| without the other.
| godelski wrote:
| What risk do they have sharing that strategy? It is an
| extremely basic and common strategy >>>
| the use of minimalist phone and a laptop is something I'm
| planning for all my travel
|
| This is a strategy recommended to literally every
| employee that works at a national lab. Similarly to
| anyone who works with a security clearance, SBU (secure
| but unclassified) materials, or even ITAR (International
| Traffic in Arms Regulations) (which includes anyone that
| works in aerospace. A rocket or a jet is "missile
| technology")
|
| I don't think their comment has any PII or even signals
| to adversaries how to fight back. It's just common for
| people to have lots of information. Sure, adversaries can
| press you about this but at that point they're probably
| going to press you for another reason anyways.
| whatshisface wrote:
| It is probably better to start keeping public lists of
| surprising incidents, analogously to the way lawyers would
| summarize case precedent, but applied to the extralegal system.
| It can be difficult to find old news articles sometimes.
| bilbo0s wrote:
| Um.
|
| I don't know that I would do that if I was a scientist right
| now.
| gopher_space wrote:
| We have reached the point where it's either something like
| this or leave the country.
| andix wrote:
| I know this from the European perspective. A lot of companies
| have policies for US travels for a few years now. Even some
| government employees on official business in the US, need to
| drop of their business phone and laptop with IT, before
| traveling to the US. And pick up a freshly wiped one with
| limited access, and no data on it.
|
| For some countries like Russia it can be even more strict. They
| only get laptops not connected to the company network at all,
| and are only allowed to put a few files onto it via a flash
| drive. The smartphone is replaced by a feature phone without
| internet.
| WillPostForFood wrote:
| Please document one or two cases. Everything I have seen has
| turned out to be a little more complicated than initially
| presented.
|
| E.g. This story of the French researcher which started as, "A
| French scientist has been denied entry into the United States,
| apparently because the scientist had expressed a personal
| opinion on the Trump administration's research policy"
|
| In fact turned out to be, "The French researcher in question
| was in possession of confidential information on his electronic
| device from Los Alamos National Laboratory -- in violation of a
| non-disclosure agreement-- something he admitted to taking
| without permission and attempted to conceal,"
|
| https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/21/world/europe/us-france-sc...
| lovich wrote:
| They found confidential information on his phone as he was
| attempting to enter the US, and their response was to turn
| him back instead of detaining him for violating those
| agreements or espionage?
|
| Does that sound plausible to you? Or even a better argument?
| If I was fully onboard with America is the only country that
| matters I would be apoplectic to find out they let a known
| spy just leave
| mmcdermott wrote:
| None of the articles I found went into more detail than the
| NY Times one. What they all say in common is that the
| French researcher was denied entrance. If the US version is
| true (and I can't be sure either way), then the
| presupposition would be that individual was already on a
| DHS list, not that customs necessarily found it.
|
| As for whether they knowingly let a spy leave, that would
| depend on a full timeline.
| lovich wrote:
| > As for whether they knowingly let a spy leave, that
| would depend on a full timeline.
|
| No it does not if the defense for denying him entry was
| knowing that he was a spy?
|
| Stop arguing out of both sides of your mouth. So far both
| proffered explanations are unacceptable.
|
| To be clear the two answers so far have been,
|
| 1: we found personal comments of him on his phone
| critical of the administration and denied him entry based
| on that, which is unacceptable on free speech grounds
|
| Or
|
| 2: he was known or found to have secrets from one of our
| nuclear labs and was denied entry based on the fact that
| we knew he had these forbidden files, and we let him go.
| This is unacceptable on national security grounds.
|
| You can't mix and match from the two scenarios
| isthatafact wrote:
| Calling it "confidential information" from los alamos is
| probably just a trick to evoke thoughts and assumptions
| that he was stealing nuclear secrets.
|
| In reality, given the pattern of intimidation and lies from
| this government, it was probably something innocuous that
| was trumped up even just to be a violation of an NDA (e.g.
| maybe a draft of a not-yet-published non-unusual research
| paper that included an author from Los Alamos), or else
| this government would have emphasized the sensitive or
| dangerous nature of that "confidential information".
| trust_bt_verify wrote:
| I don't believe we are reprimanding those who mishandle
| sensitive information any longer. Anyway, they were just
| joking when he concealed it. That's just their 'weaving'
| skills on full display.
| maigret wrote:
| Thanks for the link, without this comment I would have
| totally missed it. Doesn't change my overall view of what is
| currently happening but it's a useful nuance.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| Hmm it's hard to say which side is true. And if he had stolen
| info and breached an NDA, why deny him entry? It would have
| been better to capture him and sue him for this.
|
| Also I find it very hard to believe that random border guards
| would find such thing during a spot check.
| fluidcruft wrote:
| Personally, I have found the fact this researcher himself
| is not complaining about this and remains anonymous to be
| pretty suspicious in itself.
|
| Instead we have a French beurocrat complaining about it on
| his behalf himself pushing the bad messages found
| narrative. This all smells of cover-up.
|
| A plausible explanation would be that the US knows
| confidential information ended up in France and the person
| who was denied entry was the only plausible vector but was
| not caught red handed. Instead he was shadow banned and was
| nabbed for interrogation at the border where he confessed.
| And it could well be that the border agents scraped
| together a story about his messages as an excuse to bounce
| a persona non grata to keep the diplomatic issue quiet
| because banning a guy for Trump hate is a better diplomatic
| choice. (i.e. what is to be gained from holding him vs
| letting France burn him for getting caught). This all seems
| extremely plausible to me.
|
| In any case there's obviously more to the story and that's
| the point. Not knowing who this guy is really underscores
| there's something diplomatically delicate at play here and
| the US has sent France whatever message it needs already
| IMHO.
|
| Put another way: if you are affiliated with France's
| nuclear weapons program maybe there's something work-
| related going on between France and the US. That's how I
| interpret this story.
| ck2 wrote:
| Don't gaslight "it's complicated", that's like right out of
| 1930s Germany where people insisted everything is fine and
| there was some kind of just cause
|
| We've been though only 60 days now and institution after
| institution is being completely dismantled.
|
| Health, Education, Science, Weather Service, soon USPS, aid
| to the world with medication to stop HIV etc and food for
| children, all gone.
|
| They paid a torture prison to take people out of US
| jurisdiction so judges couldn't order hearings, there are
| people who were legit seeking asylum and have obviously never
| been in a gang or criminals who might never see the light of
| day again
|
| Russel Vought, Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon are full blown
| fascists following the Project2025 plan page by page.
|
| Imagine this country in 200 more weeks.
|
| Imagine what's going to go down once Congress and the Supreme
| Court are out for the summer and can't react quickly enough
| to all the illegal activities.
|
| It's going to take DECADES to recover from this damage.
| Kim_Bruning wrote:
| If this was still 2024, I'd call you crazy. In 2025, this
| view is not unheard of.
| mjevans wrote:
| I hear Canadian's are a nice and respectful people. Though as
| many as can need to stay behind as true patriots who will
| __actively vote__ in the every election to try to restore freedom
| and democracy in America.
| hbsbsbsndk wrote:
| Canada has imported a lot of the same culture war BS as the US.
| If you're LGBTQ or support human rights Canada is not much
| better.
| MattGaiser wrote:
| There's a major difference. Those people are out of power in
| Canada.
| DanHulton wrote:
| I think I know roughly where you're coming from -- I mean we
| absolutely have our share of bigots in or seeking power -- I
| don't think you realize how very bad it has gotten in the USA
| very recently.
|
| I have friends who fit in the categories you are describing,
| who have definitely put up with some shit occasionally here
| in Canada that would not dream of even visiting the USA, and
| know people in the USA who are actively looking to escape
| northward, in fear for their literal lives.
|
| With a looming election that has a cartoonishly, Trumpian,
| "populist evil" candidate for the leadership of our country,
| yeah it could definitely get worse, and even to the same
| amount quite easily. But at least for now, there's a very
| real -- though definitely not perfect -- refuge for LGBTQ2A+
| of all stripes up here.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| The sad fact is that everyone needs a "burner" laptop and phone
| these days for travel. Not limited to the trump administration
| either.
| atoav wrote:
| *when traveling to the USA or other nations with questionable
| stances towards basic human rights
|
| A scientist should not worry about having a "wrong" finding
| about the actual world stored on their digital devices, period.
|
| A don't have a burner phone and within the extended European
| continent never have felt the need to, including things like
| the Balkans.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Not about "shoulds."
|
| Five eyes, Russia, China, etc are happy you're comfortable.
| andix wrote:
| You don't need a "burner" laptop/phone for entering the
| European Union. There are no routine checks of electronic
| devices except the usual x-ray machines.
| ohgr wrote:
| Yeah travel in and out of Europe all the time. No issues
| ever. Still devices are locked and encrypted though.
| andix wrote:
| Encryption is great, but in general it is not really
| needed, as long as you are not a suspect of a crime.
| ohgr wrote:
| It is required when you're the victim of a crime however
| so it's a good precaution.
|
| (Had my phone swiped once)
|
| If you have adequate physical security it is less
| necessary thus my home desktop is not encrypted.
| graemep wrote:
| Maybe not routine, but UK law allows police and border
| checks, and did so when we were in the EU. There are credible
| accusations of this power being over used and misused.
| andix wrote:
| The UK always had a very American position on those
| subjects. But they left the EU more than 5 years ago.
| assimpleaspossi wrote:
| I don't have either and travel everywhere. I see no need and
| have no need.
|
| I don't get bothered and every one is nice to me. But I base my
| experience on what is in front of me and not what I read
| online.
| Havoc wrote:
| >But I base my experience on what is in front of me
|
| Problem with that approach is it makes you entirely blind to
| change right up until the moment you experience it
| personally.
|
| It's entirely possible to have a dozen good encounters at
| borders and only the 13th is bad. Or maybe the situation
| changed in the last week and you just didn't travel in that
| timespan.
|
| Casting the net a bit wider and considering other people's
| experience increases the sample size & liveness of data. (at
| the cost of some reliability ofc)
| assimpleaspossi wrote:
| One shouldn't base their experience on what they read on
| the internet either. The internet, and other people, is not
| your reality. If I lived my life based on the internet, I
| would never leave my house and have all kinds of security
| systems all over it (I have none now and see no need for
| them).
|
| I have never been robbed, never broken into, never been
| shot at, never had my car stolen and don't know anyone who
| has.
| Havoc wrote:
| >One shouldn't base their experience on what they read on
| the internet either.
|
| Not saying you should, just that it is a valuable
| supplement
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Crossing unfriendly borders is not a normal occurrence
| and therefore modest precautions are warranted.
| jltsiren wrote:
| Your employer may need them, but you probably don't.
|
| Burner devices may work when you want to protect sensitive
| information the adversary does not already have. But if you are
| more worried about authorities making your life difficult,
| because they don't like you, burner devices may just make your
| situation worse. From their perspective, it's clear evidence
| that you are actively trying to hide something.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| Overactive imagination. Lack of evidence is not evidence.
| Many people buy new devices on trips so not even out of the
| ordinary.
| timewizard wrote:
| America changed right after 2001. People have been asleep this
| entire time, presuming that their government would never target
| them, even though they've slowly been building a giant
| surveillance network that could only have this ultimate purpose.
|
| Pretending this is "Trump's America" or "Obama's America" or
| "Bush's America" is ridiculous. They've all participated in
| building these walls around the country and our freedom.
| rsoto2 wrote:
| The last five administrations have bombed the poorest country
| on the planet. Now people are being disappeared by police
| amidst public cheers. Even the mods on this website think the
| above headline is sensationalized, meanwhile a few months ago
| they hosted the AMA of an IDF soldier that probably helped
| murder children. Major parts of society are pacified and numb.
| bongodongobob wrote:
| I'm guessing this is being downvoted because the crowd here is
| too young. Our reaction to 9/11 was horrifying to anyone with a
| brain at the time.
| tdeck wrote:
| "We tortured some folks."
| Cyph0n wrote:
| No, it was not torture, it was just "enhanced
| interrogation" and "extraordinary rendition".
| Daishiman wrote:
| They manufactured a war.
| Cyph0n wrote:
| Precisely. The framework has been in-place since 9/11. The
| government (i.e., Democrat and Republican) has been testing the
| limits of what it can get away with, very gradually, ever
| since.
|
| What Trump is doing right now is nothing but an application of
| this "domestic security" framework.
|
| Heck, the government even gave everyone a taste of what's to
| come with the repression of pro-Palestine college protests
| across the country, and the dystopian shutdown of any criticism
| of a foreign country.
|
| You can always ignore the use of repression on people or causes
| you don't agree with, but don't start complaining when you or
| your cause is the one being repressed.
| mixmastamyk wrote:
| If interested in this, watch "The United States of Secrets,"
| doc by PBS Frontline.
| tredre3 wrote:
| The title is trying to imply that people are being targeted for
| being physicists or other "benign" scientific work, but that is
| not the case; Their expressed political opinions are why they're
| targeted. It's still wrong, it's still bad, but there's no need
| to mislead people.
| atoav wrote:
| Scientists are people who for a living often need to cross
| international borders. The current administration has shown no
| respect for the Rule of Law and the borders are the place where
| you will be affected in the worst way if _someone_ gets
| provoked by _something_. Lawful or not, you may not be on US
| soil yet when it happens.
| roxolotl wrote:
| There is no such thing as benign scientific work. Questioning
| the nature of reality at its core is a radical act. As we're
| seeing with tons of biology research there are right and wrong
| questions. It is only time till that spreads.
| rsoto2 wrote:
| No, the title is implying when professors are being targeted
| that's when fascism is here; because that's sort of
| historically what has happened(and it has been historically
| based on political beliefs, race, or physical appearance)
|
| CS Professor arrested today
| https://www.reddit.com/r/immigration/comments/1jmrtzz/indian...
| drstewart wrote:
| >CS Professor arrested today
|
| So? Does being a professor give you some kind of immunity
| against crimes?
| JumpCrisscross wrote:
| > _Does being a professor give you some kind of immunity
| against crimes?_
|
| The state has been able to prove precisely zero crimes in a
| court of law thus far. By Rubio's admission, they may be
| arresting without warrants. The criminals are the ones
| covering their faces while pretending to act under the
| colour of law.
| nocoolnametom wrote:
| And it'll be pretty easy to keep track of how many crimes
| they _do_ discover, because the first one will be
| trumpeted loudly everywhere, and then after that they'll
| use the entire list of people as though it's a partial
| example: "How do we know that this individual is not
| associated with <crimes>, as we've already seen with
| _countless_ examples, like <the unspoken entirety of the
| list of examples>?"
| drstewart wrote:
| >The state has been able to prove precisely zero crimes
| in a court of law thus far.
|
| Wow, in your country does the entire criminal justice
| process take place in the course of the same day of the
| arrest? Interesting. Care to share details?
| analog31 wrote:
| The presumption that the person being arrested is suspected
| of a crime is being called into question.
| nedamd wrote:
| Being scientist is ideally a quest for finding truth or at
| least try that. We are in an era where the truth is considered
| very political and there are very clear indications that in the
| US funding science and scientists in general is not welcomed
| anymore. Calls for dismantling NSF/NIH is not hiding or their
| proponents are shy from expressing what they are trying to
| pursue.
|
| The idea that politics and science as a practice is separated
| is a myth.
| ryandrake wrote:
| Also, griefing scientists, academics and the "educated elite"
| has been a priority to Republicans for at least a decade.
| They specifically run on platforms of "sticking it to those
| snobby experts," and their electorate eat it up. We've seen a
| huge anti-intellectual and anti-expertise cultural shift in
| the last 10 years.
| fatbird wrote:
| Is properly carried-out science in the area of climate change
| "benign" to the Trump administration?
| delichon wrote:
| There may be a silver lining. I think that John Roberts is in the
| mood to spank, and if Trump comes before him with an expansive
| interpretation of his plenary powers, Roberts will see him as a
| convincing counterargument. There could be a definitive ruling
| supporting the free speech right of non citizens.
| p_j_w wrote:
| Trump will just ignore the courts. Vance said he should do as
| much during the campaign and our electorate still foolishly
| voted for him, so they know there will be no consequences.
| ipsocannibal wrote:
| 85% of Trump's base think this is a bad idea. Trump is not
| that impervious to public opinion. Especially from his
| allies. Trump can't escape the laws of political gravity and
| isn't militarily strong enough to control the country. If he
| was Congress would have been jailed by now. He will resist
| and bend the rules as much as he can. But he needs the system
| to not break do the barrons don't overthrow his ass.
| rufus_foreman wrote:
| John Roberts is playing with fire. As are the district court
| judges.
| Trasmatta wrote:
| John Roberts is one of the people that have been Trump's
| biggest enablers. I have no faith that he will do anything
| other than performative actions.
| guelo wrote:
| John Roberts has been a believer in expanded executive power
| since before he joined the supreme court.
| j_bum wrote:
| > The looming crisis in the US is beginning to remind people in
| Europe of the 1930s, when the UK and the US began to realise that
| Jewish scientists needed to be rescued from the Nazis.
|
| I feel like I'm living on a different planet. I am not saying
| things are OK in the US at the moment, but ... are you kidding
| me? This is one of the most asinine statements I've ever read.
| thrance wrote:
| The comparison is apt. Things didn't start that bad in Germany
| either. But day by day, reform after reform... Look back on the
| past, imagine hearing about a visiting french scientist getting
| detained at the border for having criticized the president
| under Obama, and realize how insane that would have been, how
| normal it seems today, how far this country has gotten and
| where it is currently headed.
| j_bum wrote:
| I agree that it is insane what's happening. I do not think
| this country is on a good trajectory.
|
| But I think the analogy in TFA is also insane.
| thrance wrote:
| Time will tell I guess, let's hope it really is
| unwarranted.
| p_j_w wrote:
| > But I think the analogy in TFA is also insane.
|
| Why? This change has happened over the course of a couple
| of months. The trajectory is there.
| j_bum wrote:
| TFA is equating the beginnings of the ethnic cleansings
| of a highly and historically persecuted peoples to the
| authoritative actions against politically active citizens
| and non-citizens. I'm sure there are many cases with
| classified rationale, and many that are also blatantly
| illegal.
|
| I'll keep reiterating: I don't think what's happening in
| the US is ok. But I also don't think the analogy is ok.
| fatbird wrote:
| Those politically active citizens and non-citizens have a
| fairly distinguishable ethnic slant. Your logic-chopping
| the analogy looks like rationalization.
| cyberax wrote:
| > But I think the analogy in TFA is also insane.
|
| That's what people in Russia were thinking in 2012. And now
| people there are literally arrested just for saying a wrong
| thing.
| mnky9800n wrote:
| i think the comparison to nazi germany only muddies the
| waters. america is not nazi germany, it did not just get
| thrashed in ww1 and blamed for everyone's problems. it does
| not have the option to massively industrialize. everything is
| different. that doesn't mean america cannot turn into a
| fascist state if it feels like doing so. it means that the
| nuances as to what are going on in america right now is not
| the same nuances as what happened in germany 100 years ago
| and those nuances are important to understanding what is
| happening.
| graemep wrote:
| It is because the west has had a golden age that is over so
| they are overreacting to the end of it.
|
| I have lived in a country far worse than the US is now or is
| likely to be - things like journalists being disappeared. Even
| there the Nazi comparison was excessive. People pushed back and
| things are much better now.
| barrenko wrote:
| It was an overreaction during the first term, now it's apt.
| The destruction of America should be stopped immediately. But
| I fear we are at Thor: Ragnarok timeline now.
| MiiMe19 wrote:
| >This political event is just like when the good guys
| fought the bad guys in the heckin' marvel movies !!
|
| >Edit, thanks for the updoots kind strangers!!
| matthewmacleod wrote:
| Why do you feel this way - as in, why is this "asinine"?
|
| Anecdotally, I work with many people who frequently travel to
| the US, as well as a fair few academics over there. There is a
| clear general consensus that people are significantly altering
| their plans to reconsider travel to the US, and that others are
| actively looking to relocate.
|
| There is a very real--not imagined--possibility that some of
| those people will be subject to being rounded up and detained.
| The situation isn't obviously as severe as Nazi-era Germany,
| but it is _absolutely true_ that people are being reminded of
| this. So why is the comparison anything other than apt?
| fatbird wrote:
| You need to look around you. People are being disappeared off
| the streets and sent to hard labor concentration camps in El
| Salvador. American scholars of fascism are literally fleeing
| the US saying "this is it!". The federal gov't is being
| dismantled wholesale. America has destroyed its relationships
| with Canada and Europe, crippled NATO, and is openly planning
| to annex foreign territories and countries.
|
| This is it, friend. You're in it. The visible damage hasn't
| accumulated too much yet, but all the things that fascist
| regimes do, are being done now. You might argue that Americans
| are fighting back, that lawfirms targetted by EO are refusing
| to comply, that the ACLU is fighting in court, that protestors
| are in the streets. This was all happening in Germany in the
| mid 30s too. It didn't stop what happened, and the passivity of
| the "it's not that bad" crowd was a big part of that.
| garciasn wrote:
| So; you believe it's ok to deport people for exercising a core
| tenant of the US constitution?
|
| I don't.
| j_bum wrote:
| This feels like such a bad faith question, but I'll assume
| you're not asking with mal-intent.
|
| No, I don't think it's ok, and I don't understand how you
| would make this assumption about my opinion unless you're
| just speaking emotionally or intentionally rage baiting.
|
| It's like you didn't read my comment.
| umanwizard wrote:
| Someone can think something is bad, while simultaneously
| thinking it's an exaggeration to liken it to Nazi persecution
| of Jews.
| BJones12 wrote:
| Catastrophizing may be a cognitive distortion, but it's also a
| behavior encouraged by certain political affiliations.
| bilbo0s wrote:
| Nah.
|
| Just evolutionary biology and psychology.
|
| You see an 'other'.. Assume the worst.
|
| That's worked for hundreds of thousands of years. Millions
| actually.
|
| Everyone does it. Because no one can help doing it. No one
| who is human anyway.
| masterj wrote:
| Strong "This War Will Destabilize The Entire Mideast Region And
| Set Off A Global Shockwave Of Anti-Americanism vs. No It Won't"
| vibes with this comment https://theonion.com/this-war-will-
| destabilize-the-entire-mi...
| assimpleaspossi wrote:
| It seems that the examples given in the article are about non-US
| citizens caught in a tangle of sorts but some physicists are
| wanting to apply it to themselves as a whole.
| SapporoChris wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_They_Came
|
| ""First They Came" (German: Als sie kamen lit. 'When they
| came', or Habe ich geschwiegen lit. 'I did not speak out'), is
| the poetic form of a 1946 post-war confessional prose piece by
| the German Lutheran pastor Martin Niemoller (1892-1984). It is
| about the silent complicity of German intellectuals and clergy
| following the Nazis' rise to power and subsequent incremental
| purging of their chosen targets. Many variations and
| adaptations in the spirit of the original have been published
| in the English language. "
|
| When you see things happening to those outside your circle you
| might feel safe, but many times you are just further down the
| list and your time will come.
| brianmurphy wrote:
| https://owl.excelsior.edu/argument-and-critical-
| thinking/log...
|
| "A slippery slope fallacy occurs when someone claims that a
| position or decision will lead to a series of unintended
| negative consequences. These negative consequences are often
| bad and/or increasingly outlandish. The person using the
| slippery slope fallacy takes these consequences as a
| certainty and does not analyze the logic of their own
| position. A slippery slope fallacy can be used as a
| deflection to avoid discussing the merits of a position,
| shifting the field of debate."
| einarfd wrote:
| So where is the slippery slope in the Martin Niemoller
| poem?
|
| The transgression against the groups does not change, it is
| just repeated on different "troublesome" out groups. I
| guess you can argue that the last line, where the I of the
| text is taken, is the slippery slope. But that seems a bit
| contrived.
|
| My reading of it is that it is an admonishing against
| accepting injustice against groups that you yourself is not
| part of, and that if you do not speak up. Then who will
| speak up for you, if you need it.
| shadowpho wrote:
| If they break the laws towards green card holders they'll
| happily break the law for citizens
| epistasis wrote:
| As they well should.
|
| Science has been completely destroyed through grant revocation
| at Colombia on the pretense of unconnected protests about
| Israel and Palestine.
|
| There is no targeting based on who did what, just being in the
| same institution is enough.
|
| And many of these physicists have workers from other countries
| doing research for them. Even if they are US citizens, their
| thought crimes will have severe problems for those employees.
| WillPostForFood wrote:
| "Science has been completely destroyed"
|
| Really? Completely?
| pmags wrote:
| Would you prefer the phrasing "US scientific and public
| health infrastructure has been subjected to capricious
| changes that will effect almost all aspects of research and
| health care for a decade or more"?
|
| https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-00954-y
|
| https://www.science.org/content/article/trump-plan-
| overhauli...
|
| https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-00780-2
|
| https://arstechnica.com/health/2025/03/report-us-
| scientists-...
|
| https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/03/28/trump-
| adm...
|
| https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2025/03/trump-
| ame...
|
| https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-00525-1
| tdeck wrote:
| It's a concept called solidarity. We are going to need more of
| it if any of our institutions will survive this.
| wkat4242 wrote:
| It even happened to US citizens like a NASA employee who would
| not give access to his devices because they contained NDA info
| (that he legitimately had access to). He was detained. But let
| through after things were cleared up.
| whatshisface wrote:
| As you could say, the walls of the city are the walls of my
| home.
| Avshalom wrote:
| If there is no due process for non-citizens then there is no
| due process for citizens.
| xqcgrek2 wrote:
| This is a thinly sourced opinion piece selling FUD.
| drstewart wrote:
| This is how you know HN is changing. Turning into reddit at a
| frightening pace.
| croes wrote:
| So you don't think people don't face negative consequences if
| the find evidence they don't align with the president's agenda.
|
| They can still speak openly with risking their job or funding?
| mirawelner wrote:
| I'm working at a biomedical lab at UPitt full time and another
| biomedical at CMU in my "free time"(lol) and it's bizarre how
| it's now totally okay to talk about politics at work. People are
| sharing political articles on the teams chat.
| guelo wrote:
| When politics is coming for you shouldn't you talk about it?
| d_burfoot wrote:
| I view the current political situation as a historical rhyme of
| the bloody wars of religion in Europe that saw Catholics and
| Protestants murdering each by the millions. As with the C v P
| wars (or Sunni vs Shia in Islam, or Hindu vs Muslim in India),
| taking a side is the wrong ethical stance; the right stance is to
| view it clearly as a brutal tribal struggle, and take steps
| towards a just and honest peace.
| throw7 wrote:
| "elite institutions devoted to freedom of inquiry and the telling
| of uncomfortable truths"
|
| That's rich. That hasn't been true for our "elite institutions"
| for some time now, although I do remember some notable
| exceptions... University of Chicago comes to mind.
| GistNoesis wrote:
| I am wondering about hardware keyrings like Yubikeys : From a
| security point of view is it safe to cross international borders
| with them ? How do you connect back to your accounts without one
| when all your devices are based on two-factor authentication if
| your hardware keyring has been seized when by customs. Could you
| be detained for not "remembering" the second factor to unlock the
| keyring ?
| wkat4242 wrote:
| You could definitely be denied entry and most likely you would
| be. In terms of detainment, probably only temporarily until
| they put you on the plane back. Unless they have serious
| suspicion of something like terrorism they can't just hold you
| indefinitely for not cooperating.
|
| Ps IANAL. So take this with a gain of salt but I've never heard
| of someone actually being jailed for not giving access.
| thegrim33 wrote:
| Yeah this is the last straw for me. This thread breaks pretty
| much every rule HN has, the comment thread is filled with
| absolutely vile, delusional, partisan hate and propaganda, it's
| been on the front page for hours and no moderator has decided to
| remove it, not enough users have flagged it to get rid of it, I'm
| officially giving up on HN at this point.
|
| Not going to waste my time any longer flagging and downvoting
| political content and trying to keep HN good. The propagandists
| and hate have won and have majority control over it now. Every
| day a third of the front page is political/social/mainstream news
| content which isn't supposed to be here. Adios. Time to find the
| next place.
| krapp wrote:
| Bye.
| submeta wrote:
| Let's not lose sight of the cause and effect here. The Israel
| lobby leaned hard on Trump to stamp out any whisper of criticism
| against Israel. Meanwhile, groups like Betar are gunning to
| deport pro-Palestinian students, crowing on X about how they've
| compiled lists of critics and handed them straight to the Trump
| administration.
|
| You can spot the same playbook in Germany, where they're scheming
| to strip citizenship from dual-nationality migrants if they dare
| speak out against Israel. In Berlin, police are brutally
| pummeling pro-Palestine protesters--scenes you'd never expect to
| see in Germany.
|
| Then there's the clampdown in UK and other European countries on
| journalists and everyday folks calling out Israel's moves in
| Palestine.
|
| Across the West, these anti-free-speech tactics are piling up,
| all to muzzle anyone who questions Israel.
| submeta wrote:
| > AIPAC's Jonathan Kessler co-authored a guide on doxing American
| professors who protest against Israel in 1984!
|
| > Here he is giving a pep talk to Zionist students on how to
| takeover student gov to reverse democratically voted policies
| "just like how AIPAC does it in Congress"
|
| https://x.com/GenXGirl1994/status/1906088715249656167
| nine_k wrote:
| The lady is indeed in trouble, because she apparently broke an
| explicit regulation: <<Biological materials imported through
| passenger or pedestrian travel must be presented to CBP for
| inspection>> [1]. I very much doubt though that it's a kind of
| offense that should provide grounds for deportation.
|
| Deportation to the country that would certainly incarcerate her
| for her political position is a bad idea on may levels; first of
| all, it's inhumane. If the case really devolves down to the
| deportation for real, I wonder if some other countries would
| offer her asylum, because it's definitely better that a prison,
| especially a prison in Russia.
|
| [1]: https://www.cbp.gov/border-security/protecting-
| agriculture/i...
| dctoedt wrote:
| > _she apparently broke an explicit regulation_
|
| What I read was that it was a paperwork oversight -- it wasn't
| that she wasn't allowed to bring the materials into the
| country, it was that she didn't check some kind of box on a
| form.
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