[HN Gopher] xAI has acquired X, xAI now valued at $80B
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       xAI has acquired X, xAI now valued at $80B
        
       Author : rvz
       Score  : 206 points
       Date   : 2025-03-28 21:23 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (twitter.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
        
       | jprd wrote:
       | This is the kind of crap we learned about when studying the
       | "Robber Baron" era in the US public school system. Well, I mean,
       | we were _supposed_ to learn it - evidently a lot of folks did
       | not.
        
         | minimaxir wrote:
         | The Robber Baron era was more an instruction manual.
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | Inspiration for why to stay in school so that you too could
           | become a robber baron. Like all history, learn the previous
           | failings so that you can avoid them.
        
         | latency-guy2 wrote:
         | I don't see any connection to what you're talking about to
         | this. You have to explain.
        
           | fzeroracer wrote:
           | Elon Musk is, essentially, bailing out himself using investor
           | money from another company he runs by assigning a very
           | highball evaluation to the company he's been destroying.
           | 
           | I don't know how you can get closer to the robber baron ideal
           | than being able to distort the market like that.
        
           | jprd wrote:
           | Thank you, that's a very fair point, and I apologize for my
           | *-centric" viewpoint and such a short quip. That is not what
           | we're aiming for in conversation on this site.
           | 
           | I took a giant shortcut, without providing sources, that was
           | meant to indicate that we are in a situation that closely
           | resembles the "Gilded Age" or "Robber Baron" era in the
           | United States.
           | 
           | I was intending to point towards the actions of individuals
           | in the analogous position of those "Robber Barons", in
           | particular here, Elon Musk.
           | 
           | This dude used the data from Twitter, fed it to xAI (xAI
           | spent lots of CapEx from investment on GPUs). Mix mid-"AI"
           | training on such a ridiculously valuable dataset for free ==
           | cool models. Cool models + data stream of Doomscrolling ==
           | Higher valuation.
           | 
           | This just seems like a "nepo-baby" hit it big on some meme
           | coin and bailed out Daddy.
        
       | minimaxir wrote:
       | The SEC would likely have a field day with this, if there was
       | still a functional SEC.
        
         | dghlsakjg wrote:
         | Does the SEC have any say over privately held companies?
        
           | fredmingus wrote:
           | In short, yes.
           | 
           | https://www.sec.gov/resources-small-businesses/capital-
           | raisi...
        
         | Majromax wrote:
         | I'm not sure the SEC would obviously have jurisdiction, since
         | neither Twitter nor xAI were public companies. The FTC might
         | care about such a merger, however, and I suppose minority
         | investors in xAI would have some ability to file a lawsuit if
         | they think that X was acquired over its fair value.
        
           | fallingknife wrote:
           | Xai and Twitter are not in any way competitors. What would
           | the FTC do?
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | The SEC DOGE was in today?
         | 
         | https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-securities-exchange-comm...
        
           | perihelions wrote:
           | Ongoing thread here,
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43510093
        
         | Trasmatta wrote:
         | Meanwhile, Elon is taking over the SEC with his DOGE stooges as
         | we speak
        
         | TheAlchemist wrote:
         | Interestingly enough, I see a headline, pretty much in the same
         | minute Musk tweeted about the deal:
         | 
         | U.S. JUDGE REJECTS ELON MUSK'S BID TO DISMISS LAWSUIT ALLEGING
         | HE DEFRAUDED TWITTER SHAREHOLDERS BY WAITING TOO LONG TO REVEAL
         | STAKE
         | 
         | What's going on ?? Because he very obviously is guilty of this.
         | 
         | Here is the article - I get a feeling that this is very much
         | related:
         | 
         | https://www.reuters.com/legal/elon-musk-must-face-fraud-laws...
        
       | pengaru wrote:
       | What ever happened with the TSLA shareholders suing over xAI
       | knocking the AI wind out of Tesla's sails?
        
       | darkwater wrote:
       | Kudos for the exit, Elon! /s
        
       | adharmad wrote:
       | What is the play here? Using money invested in xAI and its
       | inflated valuation to bail out the X investors?
        
         | poniko wrote:
         | Yes same setup as when Tesla bought Solar city .. one playbook
         | he pours out of.
        
         | toomuchtodo wrote:
         | It bails out Elon and means his Tesla shares (borrowed against
         | to purchase Twitter) won't be liquidated as Tesla's share price
         | continues to decline, using xAI investor funds. He uses hype
         | and sentiment (inflating valuations) in the capital markets to
         | always stay slightly ahead of consequences.
        
           | rayiner wrote:
           | Tesla shares are higher now than they were when he closed on
           | Twitter in October 2022.
        
             | TMWNN wrote:
             | Heck, TSLA today is higher than on 5 November 2024, less
             | than five months ago!
        
               | timeon wrote:
               | It is almost the same price.
        
               | tedunangst wrote:
               | But lower than on 6 November 2024, less than five months
               | ago.
        
               | dmix wrote:
               | It's up 49% YOY https://www.google.com/finance/quote/TSLA
               | :NASDAQ?window=1Y
               | 
               | This is a bit of a silly game, their stock is very meme-y
               | so whenever you set the start of the time range the
               | aggregate % can vary heavily.
        
         | zitterbewegung wrote:
         | That and the data that is a part of X can be used by the xAI
         | team. I expect it will be in the TOS if it isn't there already.
         | 
         | "xAI and X's futures are intertwined. Today, we officially take
         | the step to combine the data, models, compute, distribution and
         | talent."
        
           | sunaookami wrote:
           | There is a setting (opt-out outside of EU, opt-in inside EU I
           | think) that allows/forbids data sharing with X since Grok was
           | released.
        
           | jsheard wrote:
           | Weren't they already doing that? I recall before I bailed
           | from X/Twitter they already added an AI training consent
           | toggle, which silently defaulted to "I consent" for all
           | existing users of course.
        
             | palmotea wrote:
             | > I recall before I bailed from X/Twitter they already
             | added an AI training consent toggle, which silently
             | defaulted to "I consent" for all existing users of course.
             | 
             | There's a solution for that: build a Twitter bot that posts
             | strange things.
        
               | jsheard wrote:
               | Are the porn bots still around? Maybe they were the
               | heroes we needed after all.
        
           | spiderfarmer wrote:
           | I think any LLM that's not trained on X data comes out ahead.
        
         | HappySweeney wrote:
         | To me it appears to be a way to pay his lenders without
         | liquidating or collateralizing more Tesla stock.
        
           | blueelephanttea wrote:
           | So he can use the funds he raised for xAI to pay out the
           | lenders for the initial Twitter purchase? Otherwise the
           | lenders are just getting xAI stock (all stock deal) which I
           | assume is illiquid?
        
             | gscott wrote:
             | A stock ponzi scheme to keep him afloat? Soon he will start
             | a new venture and use that venture to save the previous
             | venture and so on. Maybe a robot clothing company because
             | robots shouldn't be naked.
        
             | bradleyjg wrote:
             | The debt goes to the merged company and so can be serviced
             | or retired using the funds of the whole company.
        
         | ajaimk wrote:
         | Yes. He did it with Solarcity already.
        
           | dashundchen wrote:
           | Solar roofs was one of many scams.
           | 
           | And he scammed the taxpayers of New York State for a billion
           | dollar factory to build solar roofs. Factory built, stock was
           | pumped, no solar roofs though.
           | 
           | The puffery about waste and fraud is pure projection coming
           | from a scammer like Musk.
        
             | whynotminot wrote:
             | I forgot all about the solar roof thing.
             | 
             | In concept seems like a really interesting idea. I guess it
             | never ended up working out.
        
             | paul7986 wrote:
             | Who also talks like Sam Altman that the human race will
             | need to all be on welfare (Universal Basic Income) because
             | of AI.
             | 
             | I don't understand it all ...cut people's jobs who make
             | multitudes of billions less (cut 25k probationary employees
             | like ripping off a band-aid), want people to work like the
             | Chinese do (day and night) so we are the leader in AI (?)
             | and after AI starts replacing jobs we all need to be on a
             | welfare system. Isn't a welfare system the biggest waste to
             | the Republican party (independent here)?
             | 
             | Does he even know his end game with all this or he's just
             | having fun be the most powerful person?
        
       | andrewstuart wrote:
       | Can someone please explain this with more words?
        
         | bayarearefugee wrote:
         | My take is that its super obvious X is a rapidly failing social
         | media platform that is reportedly very dangerously leveraged
         | with Tesla stock value... but xAI still has that Zombo.com
         | magic where anything is possible and the unattainable is
         | unknown.
        
         | paxys wrote:
         | Elon bought Twitter for $44B, with a combination of his own
         | money, money raised from investors, and $12B worth of debt
         | secured by his Tesla shares.
         | 
         | Since that time Twitter's valuation continued to drop, and by
         | late 2024 several investors (like Fidelity) had marked the
         | company's overall value down to as little as $9B.
         | 
         | Now with the recent stock market turmoil and Tesla's massive
         | share price drop, his Twitter loan is in danger of getting
         | margin called, and that would spell disaster for Tesla, Twitter
         | and his own finances.
         | 
         | Separately Elon also started xAI, which received $6B of funding
         | at a $40B valuation, and is in talks to raise more.
         | 
         | So now he is doing some financial engineering to "sell" Twitter
         | (X) to xAI. This means (1) whoever owns shares in Twitter can
         | mark up their books again and (2) he can raise more funding for
         | the combined entity and use that to pay off the Twitter loan.
        
           | dustingetz wrote:
           | so twitter shares were converted to xai shares but where did
           | the 12B debt go?
        
       | gwbas1c wrote:
       | I get a kick out of how the link in this story is "twitter.com"
       | instead of "x.com".
       | 
       | Personally, I think everyone should just continue to say
       | "Twitter."
        
         | mtmail wrote:
         | I think Hackernews changes the link to twitter.com after
         | submission to avoid duplicates.
        
         | bigstrat2003 wrote:
         | I do and I always will. I refuse to play along with corporate
         | rebrands, be it Twitter, Facebook, Comcast, Charter or anything
         | else.
        
           | dbreunig wrote:
           | Don't forget Blackwater!
        
             | sorokod wrote:
             | Currently known as Constellis.
             | 
             | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackwater_(company)
        
           | fallingknife wrote:
           | But you already are just by saying those names
        
           | parkaboy wrote:
           | *you mean "The Facebook" ;)
        
         | throw_pm23 wrote:
         | And Facebook instead of Meta, although if I think of it, I'd
         | rather not say any of those in any context.
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | Facebook is a product, Meta is a company. It was always weird
           | to say Facebook in the context of Instagram, WhatsApp, Oculus
           | etc. Heck who even uses Facebook now?
        
             | throw_pm23 wrote:
             | Yeah, I call the company Facebook, I don't care enough to
             | follow their terminology, and I don't keep track of their
             | products.
        
         | dvh wrote:
         | The best way is IMHO to say "social media" that way you're not
         | promoting either
        
           | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
           | I really try to not use Google as a verb.
        
         | lightlyused wrote:
         | Personally, don't use it at all. Worst social media platform
         | IMO.
        
         | tomcam wrote:
         | > Personally, I think everyone should just continue to say
         | "Twitter."
         | 
         | Because...?
        
       | dustingetz wrote:
       | if this didn't happen, how much more would TSLA have to drop for
       | the $12B debt to get margin called given it is collateralized by
       | TSLA? IIUC what has happened here is the debt has been repaid by
       | selling xAI equity? Wasn't xAI constructed in the first place to
       | poof some magic money from thin air to give to unhappy Twitter
       | investors and keep them happy?
        
         | kccqzy wrote:
         | You can take a look at the price of TSLA during the acquisition
         | of Twitter as a reference.
        
         | LPisGood wrote:
         | It has dropped pretty low (relatively) at some points since the
         | purchase - probably a fair bit under $100 to trigger any margin
         | call.
        
       | palmotea wrote:
       | So, what does this actually mean?
        
         | lastofthemojito wrote:
         | Guessing it means Linda Yaccarino doesn't get to pretend to be
         | CEO anymore.
        
           | minimaxir wrote:
           | I wouldn't be surprised if she's out in a few months.
        
       | r1chardnl wrote:
       | what
        
       | blueelephanttea wrote:
       | Ah yes. Now we know why those articles about X's valuation
       | resurgence have been coming out lately. He "rescued the value" by
       | selling it to another company he owns.
       | 
       | Look, maybe the Twitter dataset and control over the algorithm is
       | worth $45 billion. But I've seen the state of ads on Twitter
       | these days and it is clearly not worth anything close to that
       | from advertising income.
        
       | bhouston wrote:
       | He has done this move before with Tesla buying Solar City. When
       | you do a deal with yourself you can assign any value you want to
       | assets, it isn't a competitive process. In the previous case
       | Solar City was dying but its acquisition by Tesla was pitched as
       | a great synergy.
       | 
       | https://www.businessinsider.com/solarcity-tesla-energy-belea...
       | 
       | There were a few lawsuits from Tesla shareholders about the
       | acquisition regarding self dealing but they didn't succeed:
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SolarCity
        
         | mayneack wrote:
         | Surely a theoretically disgruntled xAI shareholder is going to
         | have a harder time here since they're both private companies
         | and given Elon's proximity to any potential regulators.
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | Company directors are generally given wide latitude in what
           | they can do without breaching fiduciary duty, so such
           | lawsuits were always going to be an uphill battle.
        
             | bradleyjg wrote:
             | An acquisition is a special case (for the company being
             | acquired) and the scrutiny is somewhat higher.
             | 
             | At least in Delaware. I have no idea what corporate law is
             | like in Texas.
        
         | rayiner wrote:
         | Tesla bought Solar City for $2.6 billion, and now it looks like
         | the Tesla Energy division had about that much in net income
         | last year alone.
        
           | FreeRadical wrote:
           | Tesla Energy existed before Tesla acquired Solar City
        
           | refulgentis wrote:
           | Solar City was a debacle, it died immediately. Tesla's story
           | in court was they were about to go bankrupt, and it was a
           | financial necessity to redeploy all Solar City assets,
           | including all employees, to Model 3 production.
           | 
           | It breaks my heart because my rust belt hometown got a
           | substantial investment from the state they had been chasing
           | for a couple decades.
           | 
           | $700M of the Buffalo Billion went to a Solar City facility,
           | Elon even said they were going to build the solar roofs
           | there!
           | 
           | New York State didn't dare pick a fight with him as the
           | factory set empty for years.
           | 
           | Full story via Bethany McLean, 2019:
           | 
           | https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/08/how-elon-musk-
           | gamble...
        
           | foobarqux wrote:
           | Putting aside the fact that you can't justify fraud by post-
           | hoc outcomes (Shkreli and SBF also claimed that they didn't
           | commit fraud because they would or did win it back), I doubt
           | any of the Tesla Energy division income (even assuming the
           | accounting is okay) is a result of businesses that can be
           | traced back to Solar City.
           | 
           | I suspect most of the business is battery storage and the
           | Powerwall was introduced by Tesla before the acquisition.
        
             | enslavedrobot wrote:
             | The vertically integrated Tesla strategy is to use
             | batteries to arbitrage the value of stored energy. This is
             | well described in the Tesla "Master Plan" documents. Solar
             | is a huge part of this.
             | 
             | According to the company filings the solar assets Tesla
             | acquired are still generating revenue at the rates
             | projected during the acquisition.
        
               | foobarqux wrote:
               | Well I trust Elon's statements (even the financial
               | statements) as far as I can throw them but can you point
               | out where it says that? I'm searching the 10-K and I
               | don't see solar broken out.
               | 
               | But even if it's true I assume they are including their
               | utility-scale solar and battery packs, which has nothing
               | to do with Solar City: the panels are generic, the
               | customer lists are not residential, they don't use the
               | fancy shingles. Solar City did not help them in any way
               | with these getting or fulfilling these contracts.
        
           | mdorazio wrote:
           | And how much of that is solar instead of Powerwall and
           | Megapack? They don't break it out in filings unless I missed
           | it.
        
             | bboygravity wrote:
             | Exactly. So then why draw conclusions about how SolarCity
             | was a bad deal for shareholders (see parent comments)?
             | 
             | There's no substantiation of that either way.
        
               | Dylan16807 wrote:
               | We know the batteries are a lot of revenue. The
               | substantiation is not zero.
        
         | rayiner wrote:
         | [delayed]
        
       | mtmail wrote:
       | Can we speculate if X's CTO didn't like the reorg? 3 days ago
       | "X's director of engineering, Haofei Wang, has left the company "
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43470613
        
         | ein0p wrote:
         | More likely Musk liked xAI's CTO more than X's CTO, and parted
         | ways with one of them. Which is his prerogative, as the owner
         | of both companies. I'm sure Haofei would love to be the CTO of
         | one of the strongest AI models in existence. I would, if I were
         | in his shoes.
        
           | CursedSilicon wrote:
           | "strongest AI models in existence"
           | 
           | [citation needed]
        
             | llm_nerd wrote:
             | To be fair they said one of the strongest models.
             | 
             | We're at the point now where any heavily monetized player
             | can build one of the strongest models. I mean, _especially_
             | with all of the incredibly open Chinese companies releasing
             | cutting edge research now that most American firms have
             | gone quiet or only releasing their tailings.
        
       | rsoto2 wrote:
       | no thanks
        
       | legitster wrote:
       | As a reminder, the people who held X's debt had written down the
       | company's value to less than $10 billion. So selling your company
       | to yourself for $45 billion dollars is hilarious chicanery.
       | 
       | Musk used his extremely overvalued company to bail out his other
       | way overvalued company that he ran into the ground. It's a
       | thinly-veiled, self dealing ponzi scheme. (It also echos the
       | final fate of Solar City).
        
       | verytrivial wrote:
       | I for one hope this all ends really, really badly for him and his
       | backers.
        
       | karparov wrote:
       | "... seeking the truth ..."
       | 
       | Hahaha, ha ha, ha...
       | 
       | Maybe more accurate to say "spreading _my_ truth ".
        
       | saaaaaam wrote:
       | So he just sold himself a company he already owns for a valuation
       | that he himself assigned to that company but that was less than
       | what he paid for it, and he paid entirely using "money" that has
       | a made up value and which he issues himself?
       | 
       | Wild.
        
         | bayarearefugee wrote:
         | Welcome to very-late-stage capitalism.
         | 
         | And if you can get the right people to believe in the
         | arbitrarily large numbers you invented out of thin air you can
         | get away with just about anything because the wealthy don't
         | have any real consequences.
        
         | mingus88 wrote:
         | Yeah these fantasies where musk would somehow go bankrupt by
         | tanking Tesla and overpaying for Twitter were also wild
         | 
         | He's literally the richest person the earth has ever known.
         | He's never going to suffer financially. He has countless levers
         | of power he can pull.
         | 
         | The same fantasy applies to any past or current president ever
         | spending a day in jail. He literally commands the most powerful
         | military apparatus the world has ever seen. Even a sliver of
         | that capability and influence ensures nobody will ever dare to
         | try and slap some cuffs on him
        
           | LanceJones wrote:
           | He only holds ~15% of Tesla. His real money is in SpaceX...
           | 50% ownership there. I wish people would think just a little
           | before parroting the "hit Musk where it hurts" drivel.
        
             | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
             | My quick search is showing Tesla is worth some $800B. 15%
             | of that is real money.
        
           | zozbot234 wrote:
           | That military apparatus is sworn to uphold the Constitution,
           | not support the current president.
        
             | madeofpalk wrote:
             | This only matters if people care enough to act
             | appropriately when that is broken.
        
             | berdon wrote:
             | From what I have been told (specific to the US military):
             | 
             | - Enlisted swear oaths to the constitution and President
             | 
             | - Officers swear an oath to the constitution
             | 
             | I've only been told this, I don't claim to know.
        
           | J_Shelby_J wrote:
           | I'm pretty sure the owner of the monopoly board game company
           | is the richest person ever.
        
           | dustingetz wrote:
           | equities are a ponzi scheme it will crash eventually probably
           | after losing a war or climate no longer supports agriculture
        
           | danpalmer wrote:
           | I don't want to downplay your point, I basically agree, but
           | in real terms I believe there have been several people richer
           | than him, and it is hard to judge the relative wealth of
           | people long ago.
        
             | bhouston wrote:
             | Elon was uniquely rich is US history but his wealthy
             | fluctuates wildly:
             | 
             | https://finance.yahoo.com/news/rockefeller-rich-elon-
             | musks-w...
        
         | enslavedrobot wrote:
         | The value of Twitter was set when the bonds used to finance the
         | purchase were sold recently for 97cents on the dollar.
        
           | llm_nerd wrote:
           | Musk threw in xAI ownership to sell those bonds, which
           | themselves have an _11%_ rate. Musk basically backstopped the
           | bonds by giving a heads up of _this_.
           | 
           | No, that was absolute _fantasy_ numbers, and in no universe
           | did it verify any value of Twitter.
           | 
           | Musk really, really knows how to play people. He deserves
           | that credit.
           | 
           | And I mean, bond discounts or not have nothing to do with the
           | value of a company. The discount on a bond is based upon the
           | likelihood they'll ever be paid off, and after it was clear
           | that Musk would save the failure of X by using one of his
           | other companies and AI hype to do so (as others have said,
           | just like SolarCity), the bond lost its discount. X's value
           | could be $1, but if the bonds are going to be repaid they'll
           | sell at no discount.
        
         | rco8786 wrote:
         | And then will leverage against that valuation for loans,
         | acquisitions, etc.
         | 
         | Self dealing. Nobody cares anymore.
        
           | miohtama wrote:
           | Good luck trying to get a bank to underwrite that loan,
           | smells a bit risky.
        
             | CamperBob2 wrote:
             | "Nice bank you've got there. Would be a shame if ________"
             | (Insert any number of orders that Musk can have his friends
             | in the executive branch issue to make life miserable for
             | the bank principals.)
             | 
             | It's good to be the king. Even better to own him.
        
           | Workaccount2 wrote:
           | Trump pardoned Trevor Milton today, who scammed investors out
           | of millions doing things like his now infamous "rolling a
           | truck down a hill to make it looks functional" demo.
           | 
           | Milton donated $1.8M to Trump, and Miltons lawyer's sister is
           | Pam Bondi, the Attorney General.
           | 
           | This is _nakedly_ corrupt and a strong signal that you can
           | get away with all manner of financial fuckery if you are on
           | Trumps  "good list".
        
             | miohtama wrote:
             | Every democratic country deserves the government they get.
        
               | Workaccount2 wrote:
               | At least we don't have to worry about trans kids swimming
               | on the girls swim team.
               | 
               | /s
        
         | Henchman21 wrote:
         | Its almost like modern life is riddled with lies, liars, and
         | their collective bullshit.
         | 
         | I don't think this is a change in the human condition; we're
         | extremely greedy hairless apes. But guys like Elon really show
         | how low we can go.
        
           | knicholes wrote:
           | I argue that he's literally showing us how high we can go
           | with SpaceX.
        
             | Henchman21 wrote:
             | With SpaceX? Or Ketamine??
        
         | ilrwbwrkhv wrote:
         | What an absolute scammer lol.
        
       | spiderfarmer wrote:
       | An also runs acquired an also ran.
        
       | throwaway5752 wrote:
       | I'd feel great being someone that financed the takeover of
       | X/Twitter, and being stuck with inflate shares in an also-ran AI
       | play. Obviously there is no rule of law for Musk, and no recourse
       | for them.
       | 
       | He'll keep his ball of twine rolling past TSLA's next earnings
       | date on April 22nd.
        
         | CSMastermind wrote:
         | What makes you think xAI will be an also ran?
         | 
         | Grok 3 is right up there with SOTA models and the time in which
         | they trained it was fairly impressive. Seems like they have as
         | good of a shot as anyone at capturing the market.
        
       | paxys wrote:
       | The only thing worse than investors assigning random made up
       | valuations to their portfolio companies is owners themselves
       | assigning random made up valuations to their companies.
        
       | justanotheratom wrote:
       | xAI's mission is to "understand the universe". Not sure how that
       | aligns with X.
        
         | mdhb wrote:
         | This is marketing speak for collective as much data on people
         | as possible. It's a surveillance company masquerading as an
         | "AI" one.
        
         | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
         | Know thyself?
        
       | tedunangst wrote:
       | But how can X be the everything company if it's merely a
       | subdivision?
        
       | TheAlchemist wrote:
       | This is Solar City all over again, but at least this time it's
       | not with public investors money.
       | 
       | He can now use the money raised by xAI, to pay off the debt of X,
       | which was bleeding money.
       | 
       | So today in corporate America we have:
       | 
       | - Trump pardoning one of the most obvious scammer of the past 10
       | years - Trevor Milton
       | 
       | - Trump pardoning some obvious crypto scammers
       | 
       | - Musk using investors money from one of his companies, to bail
       | out his another company, at the valuation he himself set
       | 
       | Unprecedented times. The damage to the rule of law will be hard
       | repair - it will take decades.
        
       | qwertox wrote:
       | I wonder if Tesla will buy xAI. Doesn't Tesla need the GPU power
       | of xAI? Are they renting it, or do they have their own servers?
        
         | zozbot234 wrote:
         | Doesn't Tesla have their own "Dojo" custom AI chips? There
         | seems to be a bit of pointless duplication either way between
         | Tesla and X/xAI's developments in this space.
        
           | redox99 wrote:
           | On the latest TSLA event, Elon said Dojo was 5% of their
           | training compute (the rest being nvidia). Although he hoped
           | future dojo versions would improve.
        
       | kemotep wrote:
       | With the grok integration into X already being a thing and both
       | being owned by Elon and called X it never really seemed like they
       | were actually two different companies at any point so this is an
       | interesting reminder that they were not.
        
       | lapcat wrote:
       | There must be some connection between this and the new equity
       | funding last week, I would think?
       | 
       | March 19: "Elon Musk's social network X has raised close to $1
       | billion in new equity from investors" "Musk himself participated
       | in the equity raise" "The deal values X's equity at roughly $32
       | billion." https://fortune.com/2025/03/19/elon-musk-x-twitter-
       | equity-fu...
        
       | ZeroGravitas wrote:
       | Who is he going to merge the US with after he fucks that up?
        
         | nerdix wrote:
         | Canada and Greenland
        
           | fzzzy wrote:
           | I'm surprised they aren't talking about trying to take over
           | Mexico too.
        
       | theprop wrote:
       | This is interesting and may point to X / Twitter becoming more
       | AI-driven in the future (many possibilities). Grok has become my
       | go-to AI -- I personally find it better than (the free version at
       | least) of ChatGPT, paid Gemini, and anything else -- though it
       | does have a lot of problems.
        
         | snotrockets wrote:
         | I don't believe it has to be said: It's not about product, it's
         | about manipulating the balance sheet.
        
       | khazhoux wrote:
       | This reminds me of the time I bought a beautiful vintage guitar
       | collection, all in pristine condition, from myself a few years
       | ago. It was an amazing deal and I still don't know how I lucked
       | out like that.
        
       | justin66 wrote:
       | When all is said and done, did the banks that helped finance
       | Musk's original acquisition of Twitter get their money back?
        
       | saltysalt wrote:
       | X users are now officially just training data for Grok.
        
         | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
         | As opposed to Reddit? Or your Gmail? Or everything else on the
         | internet?
        
           | saltysalt wrote:
           | I take your point, however an AI company owning a social
           | media platform is new.
        
             | fzzzy wrote:
             | Not really, Facebook (Meta, whatever) has been an ai
             | company for a long time.
        
         | spiderice wrote:
         | The comment you just wrote is training data for every major LLM
         | out there.
        
           | saltysalt wrote:
           | I'm aware, thanks.
        
         | madeofpalk wrote:
         | I presume they _officially_ were before. And just unofficially
         | for every other model, as all our posts online are.
        
       | SV_BubbleTime wrote:
       | I have no real opinion on this.
       | 
       | But I see many of you do... except you all also told me over and
       | over that X was going to fall apart when he cleaned house, that
       | it was going to shut down, that bluesky had mass-appeal because
       | of reasons that haven't come to fruition I guess, that Tesla
       | stock was going to free fall while the rest of the market rose,
       | that he would be exposed as a broke fraud... or whatever other
       | silliness you get caught up in.
       | 
       | I guess I have no opinion on this because unlike all of you that
       | seem to have first hand knowledge of the man, I haven't met him.
       | I see nothing but a disclosure about a company sale and what is
       | likely steps to getting X back on the stock exchange someday.
       | 
       | You are all the experts though.
        
         | qwerpy wrote:
         | The classic HN/reddit combo of overconfidence and wishful
         | thinking. HN comments use bigger words and are somewhat less
         | emotional but the main ideas are the same.
        
       | thanhhaimai wrote:
       | This move makes it more likely that the internal number for TSLA
       | is not good, and Elon is expecting the price to go down.
       | 
       | He has access to the real revenue number. If it's going well, he
       | wouldn't have to perform this maneuver. xAI was relatively
       | separated from X and TSLA, and wasn't having the backlashes
       | associated with the two. Now he risks having the xAI branding
       | tarnished too. He wouldn't do this unless the TSLA internal
       | numbers are bad and he has to protect himself first, at the cost
       | of xAI brand.
        
         | ripped_britches wrote:
         | This doesn't seem like a branding related deal, it seems like
         | wanting to further marry their operations for strategic
         | reasons.
        
         | redox99 wrote:
         | I don't understand the relation with TSLA.
        
           | kansface wrote:
           | Musk leveraged TSLA stock to buy Twitter.
        
           | mandeepj wrote:
           | There's a margin on TSLA stock at $112 or $115; Like some
           | other commentator said as well - he collateralled TSLA stock
           | to take a loan to buy Twitter.
        
         | epgui wrote:
         | None of this is really related to TSLA.
        
         | pityJuke wrote:
         | xAI was seperated from X in what sense? xAI employees were X
         | employees [1]. X reportedly had a stake in xAI, although The
         | Verge says that hasn't materialized yet [0]. xAI's primary UI
         | was X.
         | 
         | (This is primarily around your backlash comments, I'm sure some
         | shareholder malarkey could make them technically separate).
         | 
         | [0]: https://www.theverge.com/news/638933/elon-musk-x-xai-
         | acquisi...
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.theverge.com/2025/1/10/24339249/elon-musk-
         | xai-x-...
        
       | w10-1 wrote:
       | "This will allow us to build a platform that doesn't just reflect
       | the world but actively accelerates human progress"
       | 
       | You get to pick winners AND be protected by section 230 of the
       | Communications Decency Act from liability for anything said on
       | the platform.
       | 
       | Stockholder privacy is protected by law; they could be Russian,
       | Saudi, Chinese, North Korean crypto-currency hackers; CIA;
       | friends of friends, mom and pop, whomever.
       | 
       | X algorithms and work practices are protected by trade secrets,
       | confidentiality agreements, and binding arbitration.
       | 
       | Even superpower-nation security services are deeply dependent on
       | the willing participation of the telecommunications industry.
       | They would be blind to a unwilling provider, particularly one
       | with their own worldwide network.
       | 
       | Don't blame Elon Musk. We built this system. "If you build it,
       | they will come."
        
       | ripped_britches wrote:
       | It should be noted that the other xAI shareholders are/were
       | supportive of the X takeover and all. So although I personally
       | don't like Elon, this doesn't seem like self dealing as many here
       | claim. Solar City worked out well even though it too seemed like
       | self dealing.
       | 
       | There are actually bad things to hate him for but acquisitions
       | fraud is probably not on the table.
        
       | snotrockets wrote:
       | Can't wait for the Monday issue of Matt Levine's newsletter.
        
       | danso wrote:
       | Okay, I know Tesla's extremely high P/E ratio is because it's
       | worth is not just tied to cars, and so xAI priced at $20B more
       | than Anthropic does not necessarily mean xAI's AI products are
       | that much better than Anthropic's (e.g. presumably xAI's worth is
       | tied to synergies with Tesla FSD, Optimus, and maybe even
       | Neurolink)...but what products does xAI actually offer, other
       | than Grok being an add-on for premium X subscriptions?
       | 
       | Not only does the Grok API not have access to Grok 3, which was
       | released more than a month ago, it doesn't even have it's own
       | SDK? [0]
       | 
       | > _Some of Grok users might have migrated from other LLM
       | providers. xAI API is designed to be compatible with both OpenAI
       | and Anthropic SDKs, except certain capabilities not offered by
       | respective SDK. If you can use either SDKs, we recommend using
       | OpenAI SDK for better stability._
       | 
       | (every code example has a call for `from openai import OpenAI`)
       | 
       | How would using Grok be viable for any enterprise? And if Grok's
       | API is designed to be drop-in replacement for OpenAI's, how are
       | they not able to just use Grok to whip up their own SDK variant
       | based on OpenAI's open-sourced SDK [1] and API spec?
       | 
       | [0] https://docs.x.ai/docs/guides/migration
       | 
       | [1] https://github.com/openai/openai-python
        
       | maximus-decimus wrote:
       | How is that legal? Could he also decide to sell a Bic pen he
       | personally owns to XAI for 100 billion dollars? What's the line?
       | Do you need to be able to convince a judge you truly believe it's
       | worth that?
        
       | Garlef wrote:
       | It's this maybe merely a financial move that makes sense in the
       | world of ultra-rich people and banks?
       | 
       | I read somewhere that he used his tesla assets as a security to
       | get a loan to buy X and this provides some buffer or sticks it to
       | someone else in case tesla goes down?
        
       | bluesounddirect wrote:
       | wow i forgot about how dumb x was . now we xai ... so what .
        
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