[HN Gopher] The Real Book (2021)
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The Real Book (2021)
Author : Tomte
Score : 69 points
Date : 2025-03-28 16:39 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (99percentinvisible.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (99percentinvisible.org)
| pvg wrote:
| Threads 4 and 2 years ago
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34536638
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26737142
| sintezcs wrote:
| 99% invisible is one of my most favourite podcasts, I recommend
| it every time when I talk about podcasts to someone
| sieste wrote:
| It's the _first_ podcast I ever heard of, when my friend first
| explained that word to me. Glad to see it 's still around.
| vunderba wrote:
| As an aside, fake books are a great way to get your feet wet
| learning how to extemporize while still having some guidance
| around the chord progression and melody.
|
| If you have an iPad, there's an app called iReal Pro with loads
| of lead sheets that add in some accompaniment (drums, guitar,
| etc.) so you can "play along" as well.
|
| https://www.irealpro.com
| bobbiechen wrote:
| iReal Pro is awesome. When playing music with new people
| (especially jazz), it feels like everyone has it, and you can
| quickly make sure you're playing the same charts.
|
| It's also available on Android, and it's a one-time payment,
| no-subscription app. Easily one of the most valuable music
| purchases I've made.
| commakozzi wrote:
| it's also great being able to change tempo, style, key, etc.
| iReal Pro is used by every pro musician i know around town
| WorkerBee28474 wrote:
| This seems to be another embodiment of Gabe Newell's "Piracy is
| almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem."
| etyp wrote:
| The Real Book was pretty fundamental helping me learn jazz. I
| think a lot of jazz people look down on it (or those who _need_
| it), but I didn 't really get deep enough to see that. There's a
| short video from Adam Neely that opened my eyes to that a bit.
|
| https://youtu.be/dD0e5e6wI_A?feature=shared
| xanderlewis wrote:
| Who looks down on the Real Book?
| brian_spiering wrote:
| The Real Book is an excellent resource for what it is.
| However since it is the primary book of jazz, it can have too
| much of an influence. The Real Book has a limited number of
| songs and entire subgenres of jazz are not represented. The
| structure of the songs is relatively narrow. Songs are rarely
| added.
| ahipple wrote:
| Anybody who's worked with it for any length of time knows
| that the charts contained are good enough for jam session
| purposes but either contain inaccuracies when compared to the
| canonical versions of songs or may have been based on the
| "wrong" (according to some) canonical versions. Working this
| out means developing your ears and listening both to the
| original recordings and to the musicians you're playing with
| in a given situation. Many people end up in a place where
| they're just using their ears and memory to skip the book
| entirely, which in some situations is an essential skill.
|
| Most level-headed people I think regard the book as a useful
| tool, a step in the growth journey. As egos and insecurities
| enter the mix you'll occasionally find somebody who'll
| proclaim that the Real Book is purely a crutch and you should
| start and end with the ear-training bits or you're "doing it
| wrong".
| csmcg wrote:
| I feel like that commenter was a little harsh with that
| statement - I will say however that it has caught some flak
| as a source of truth. There are quite a few standards
| (principally, original jazz compositions by jazz musicians
| that have now become "standards", this probably isn't as much
| a problem for true "Great American Songbook" standards since
| those were always notated), that were transcribed incorrectly
| in original versions of real/fake books. To the point that
| many younger generation players are playing incorrect heads
| and/or changes to tunes since they learn it from the book
| rather than by ear. Not even that, but often they are just
| straight wrong, or dumbed down versions of the changes.
| xanderlewis wrote:
| Actually... this is true. Fair enough.
| analog31 wrote:
| I'm a jazz bassist, 61, and first saw a Real Book 43 years
| ago.
|
| There were, and are, always a few hard-liners who look down
| on reading tunes from a book, on the bandstand. They're not
| necessarily the oldest, or best players, or have the best
| reasons. Whatever. Most of the gigs that I've played, fake
| books were accepted. There are similar debates in most
| musical styles.
|
| Roughly 20 years ago, I decided to stop bringing fake books
| to gigs. I quickly discovered that I didn't need them. For
| one thing, the "local repertoire" wasn't vast. For another,
| it exercised my ability to pick up tunes by ear. I see more
| of what's around me, and interact more with the band and
| audience, because the music stand isn't there. Today, I have
| a bunch of stuff on an Android tablet that I keep in my bag
| just in case, but rarely bring it out. The tablet also
| contains stuff for bands that use written arrangements, such
| as a 19-piece jazz ensemble.
|
| I personally think the inaccuracies are immaterial. Most
| players will never encounter a situation where the ur-text is
| important. The players I've known who mostly learned by ear
| don't play 100% accurate changes.
|
| I'm not a full time pro, but am often called as a sub, so
| I've observed many levels of bands. I've formed the opinion
| that the fake books do in fact detract from performances. I
| hate "dead air" between tunes while the players flip through
| their books (or thumb through their phones) to choose what
| tune to play next. It's a little bit cringe when a good
| player who should know a beginner tune, reads it. Flipping
| through the books may be just a habit. Plus, dependence on
| the books limits the repertoire in weird ways. Real Book has
| practically become its own genre. Remember, the
| "contemporary" tunes in the RB are 50+ years old.
|
| The problem is that gigs and jam sessions are no longer
| frequent enough to afford players a chance of learning tunes
| by ear. The books aren't going away. Bandleaders can figure
| out how to deliver a better performance. Send out a set list
| in advance. Let people listen to the tunes that they're
| unfamiliar with. If needed, they can transcribe them. I do
| that a lot when asked for a popular tune that doesn't have
| available sheet music, such as most country-western.
| pjdesno wrote:
| Someone I know who went to Berklee in the early 90s said that it
| was a required text for certain jazz classes, and you had to buy
| it from a bootlegger.
| evereverever wrote:
| I went to school in Minnesota and we had to go to a certain
| music store and ask a specific employee for the book. I believe
| it was $50. It was basically required to play jazz.
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