[HN Gopher] How Kerala got rich
___________________________________________________________________
How Kerala got rich
Author : lordleft
Score : 273 points
Date : 2025-03-28 16:27 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (aeon.co)
(TXT) w3m dump (aeon.co)
| jmathai wrote:
| I was born in the US but my parents are from Kerala and I still
| have family there that I visit.
|
| One thing I found interesting was the pride in literacy and
| education. Kerala has a 96% literacy rate which is the highest in
| India [1].
|
| It's one of my favorite places to visit. Unlike other parts of
| India such as Bengaluru, Mumbai and Hyderbad -- it's tropical and
| lush with much less pollution than what you might see in those
| other parts of India.
|
| My parents have a home in a rural community which hasn't changed
| much in the past few decades compared to somewhere like
| Bengaluru. It's quiet and slow with a high important on family
| relationships. No doubt it's westernizing, albeit slower than
| other parts of India - but for now it still holds much of the
| charm I've known since I was a kid.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_India
| vinay427 wrote:
| > Unlike other parts of India such as Bengaluru, Mumbai and
| Hyderbad -- it's tropical and lush with much less pollution
| than what you might see in those other parts of India.
|
| Somewhat ironically these are relatively low pollution as large
| cities in India go. There is still a good amount of greenery in
| Bengaluru (it is famous for it) but obviously far less than a
| few decades ago, as many residents lament.
| fakedang wrote:
| Bangalore today is a shadow compared to the Garden City it
| once was.
|
| For outsiders not in the know, Bangalore was famous for its
| beautiful lakes and the lush greenery around them. It was
| absolutely something else, finding these beautiful water
| bodies smack in the middle of what is supposed to be a major
| city. The weather was cool, almost like a warm European
| summer (which is extremely cool by Indian standards).
|
| Then they got greedy, drained the lakes, built real estate
| and office properties on them and now Bangalore is an
| unbearable cesspit just like any other Indian city. Bad
| weather, bad traffic and a shit scenery.
|
| I still have some photos of my visits to Bangalore in my
| childhood a couple of decades back, and the visual contrast
| between past and present is so stark. Of course, locals love
| to resent the regression of the city, but they also love
| their coin.
| intended wrote:
| Hey, Mumbai folks will fight you for supremacy on bad
| scenery. Course we concede the actual crown to our dearest
| friends in Delhi.
| Sammi wrote:
| I'm not usually not the type to be preoccupied with green
| policy, but this was heart wrenching to hear.
| anon291 wrote:
| My family is part of the indigenous people of Mumbai, and
| my mom and dad's pictures of their childhood homes and
| stories are almost unbelievable if you visit now. My
| grandparents old bungalow is still on google maps, now
| surrounded by skyscrapers, but in the pictures, it's all
| fields and trees.
| hammock wrote:
| I had no idea and thank you for sharing. Why did it fall
| apart?
| p3rls wrote:
| Cheer up-- while India is being westernized, the entire
| internet is being indianized. Personally, I think you're
| winning on the trade.
| ignoramous wrote:
| Like many in the diaspora, you may have a romantic view of your
| roots.
|
| > _much less pollution_
|
| Comparatively? Perhaps. One look at the Vembanad Lake and
| you'll know what I'm talking about:
| https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Kochi/high-levels-of-fa...
| It stinks these days.
|
| > _Kerala has a 96% literacy rate_
|
| Lieracy surveys aren't as rigorous; likely 5% to 20% drop from
| reported numbers: https://www.dataforindia.com/measuring-
| literacy/
|
| > _still holds much of the charm_
|
| As someone who visited Kerala multiple times a year, things
| have gotten worse both climate wise & pollution wise. Though,
| the monsoon gods still bless Kerala, it isn't as green as it
| used to be. I've found (under similar climatic conditions) the
| Sri Lankan lowlands (West coast) to be more greener. Ditto for
| rainforests of NE India & SE Asia.
| guerrilla wrote:
| > Lieracy surveys aren't as rigorous; likely 5% to 20% drop
| from reported numbers:
| https://www.dataforindia.com/measuring-literacy/
|
| This is _very_ well studied in sociology and anthropology and
| has been for many decades. Kerala is a major case study in
| many fields because of this.
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| [delayed]
| not_kurt_godel wrote:
| The connection between education and wealth is very strong.
| Very sad that the US has decided to pursue a trajectory towards
| poverty in this area.
| mc32 wrote:
| In popular US culture the pursuit of wealth, is framed as
| crass. Movies that some see as promoting wealth accumulation
| are often actually critiques against wealth.
|
| Also, since the mid 60s pop culture has embraced the slacker
| as being hip and cool.
|
| They guy and gal trying to get ahead are portrayed as greedy
| or at best blindly joining a rat-race forgoing more noble
| pursuits. Not so for many other cultures.
| paulluuk wrote:
| I think that in almost all western countries, a life spent
| entirely on hoarding wealth for the sake of wealth, is
| considered a sad life. Especially if you don't even have
| any loved ones to share your wealth with.
|
| I think the same it true for most of Latin america, where
| many of my friends and colleagues are from. And when I was
| in Nepal they thought that, if anything, western people are
| way too much focused on gathering wealth.
|
| Islam specifically rejects hoarding wealth, so I think that
| pretty much takes out most of the middle east and northern
| africa.
|
| So I'm curious which other cultures you are referring to.
| Perhaps specifically Indian and Chinese culture?
| zozbot234 wrote:
| A lot depends on _how_ exactly you pursue wealth. You could
| say that Donald Trump and Elon Musk have both striven to
| "pursue wealth" in their business careers, but nonetheless
| they did so in very different ways. And plenty of people
| will likely find Donald's approach somewhat "crass"
| compared to Elon's.
| srameshc wrote:
| In the 1980s, many Keralites were courageous enough to leave the
| land for better prospects abroad, many in the Middle East and the
| UK. I remember going to my friends place and find their houses
| were modern and it was the first time I saw a glass door. Not to
| mention some of my Keralite friends are the most sincere and hard
| working and they have risen to very high ranks regardless of
| their grad scores and academics.
| jmathai wrote:
| There's a lot of brain drain in Kerala with people getting
| educated and leaving. Those that leave do, however, send money
| back to their families and I know many who return to live in
| India after 5-10 years. This was the case a decade or two ago
| and I'm not sure if it's still the case.
|
| I had many aunts or uncles who would leave their family behind
| in India and work in the middle east for many years before
| returning to India. This practice helped them shore up savings
| and build houses.
| harichinnan wrote:
| Remittanced only contribute to 15% of GDSP. 65% is from
| tertiary sectors of IT, Healthcare and Tourism. Kerala gets
| substantial investments from private companies instead as
| opposed to large corporations in Gujarat for example.
| Investments in Kerala rarely grab news headlines as it's
| mostly private investments.
| TulliusCicero wrote:
| "Only"? That's more than 4x as high as the overall Indian
| average: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/BX.TRF.PWKR.D
| T.GD.ZS?na...
| gopher_space wrote:
| The guys I knew from Guatemala doing yardwork/construction in
| the US had the same setup. They'd sleep in shifts in bunk
| beds and then go home to their new ranch after a few years.
| xnx wrote:
| Doesn't a Kerala temple contain in excess of $22 billion worth of
| gold?
| the_arun wrote:
| Did you mean this temple in Andhrapradesh? -
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venkateswara_Temple,_Tirumala
| sangeeth96 wrote:
| Probably referring to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padmanabh
| aswamy_Temple_treasur...
| the_arun wrote:
| Never knew, this temple also has so much gold. Thanks for
| sharing
| dartharva wrote:
| I have visited this temple. The security inside the
| premises is handled by regular police, but the temple also
| has a strict dress code.. so you get to see shirtless men
| in _dhotis_ carrying badges and pistols in cloth holsters.
| It 's really funny to look at.
| harichinnan wrote:
| Yes. Travancore Cochin remained a princely state and escaped
| East India company looting.
| https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimdobson/2015/11/13/a-one-tril...
| 2511 wrote:
| you are correct. Padmanabhan temple apparently has gold worth
| 22 billion dollars.
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padmanabhaswamy_Temple_treas...
| sva_ wrote:
| That's crazy, I wonder what led people to 'donate'. Something
| like monetary indulgence as has been carried out by the
| catholic church?
| achuwilson wrote:
| Yes. It is still locked in the vaults of the temple
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padmanabhaswamy_Temple
| kappi wrote:
| Looks like this is one sided political propaganda article.
| Googling shows real picture.
|
| Unemployment is at 40%.
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment_in_Kerala
|
| Kerala is in the grip of a surging drug crisis
| https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/india/kerala-is-in...
|
| Kerala rooting on central govt to solve state's Rs 26,000 crore
| monthly expenditure crisis
| https://keralakaumudi.com/en/news/news.php?id=1498119&u=kera...
| xyst wrote:
| yup, a definitive "neoliberal"/"neoclassical" economic theory
| puff piece.
| harichinnan wrote:
| Crime statistics are because Kerala Police isn't as corrupt
| and registers more crimes compared to rest of India. It's a
| good thing as most crimes goes unreported in India as police
| are corrupted in rest of India.
| impomura wrote:
| a neoliberal neoclassical puff piece on the only region in
| india ruled by the communist party? that's fresh
| cafeoh wrote:
| The _region_ has remnants of socialist ideas. The article,
| however, is indeed a puff piece on the vastly dominant
| economic theory, which is, as it turns out, not "fresh" at
| all.
|
| I will say however that I think it's unfair to call
| professor Roy a neoliberal. Being a neoliberal is merely
| the expectation for most economic "theorists", but his
| vocal apologetics for imperalism and colonialism is not.
|
| _> Indian Marxists viciously attacked the CEHI, arguing
| the imperial state 's aim was to extract surplus from
| India, that it withheld the capacity to do good in famines,
| and deployed the capacity to cause harm at all other
| times._
|
| _> In this void, blog and trade-book writers moved in with
| a leftist-nationalist political agenda posing as economic
| history. Most of their claims can be dismissed by
| subjecting them to the 1980s test: Can economic change be
| read as an effect of the Empire? The answer remains: No._
|
| This is indeed a very powerful purity test, "Do your claim
| go against my utterly ahistorical narrative? If not, then I
| can comfortably dismiss them without addressing them."
|
| _> That India 's trade surplus meant Britain looted India
| is bad logic because the surplus did not mean theft but the
| purchase of services. "Millions of Indians died of policy-
| induced famines" (Hickel) is bad logic by assuming infinite
| state capacity was deliberately withheld._
|
| This one is quite rich aswell, it's just blunt unapologetic
| imperalism denial. It's bad logic because the logic bothers
| me.
|
| I mean it just goes on and that's just his most recent
| tweets.
| rafram wrote:
| You're reading the youth unemployment rate. Overall is only 9%
| (still not great, but much better).
| jeswin wrote:
| Yep. I lived there for the first two decades, and outside
| Kerala for the next two and a bit. The only thing Kerala
| exports is the workforce, since it's impossible to start
| anything in Kerala thanks to politics and high costs. I know
| because I've tried. Kerala had historical ties with the Middle
| East thanks in part to a substantial Muslim population, and the
| migrant labour force was able to funnel some of Middle Eastern
| prosperity during the oil boom years back into the state. That
| is in a nutshell, Kerala's economic story.
|
| Speaking of the left, I remember being next to a protest circa
| 1990 against ... computers!
| harichinnan wrote:
| You aren't keeping up then. Remittances is a much smaller %
| of economy these days.
| jeswin wrote:
| Ten years back remittance was 31% of the GDP [1] - a
| massive number. It might have declined, but the tiny state
| accounts for 20% of India's inward remittance while holding
| a mere 3% of the nation's population. Wikipedia says that 3
| million people are working abroad (mostly in the middle
| East), which is like 10 percent of the population (what
| percentage of the youth will that be?). Also, a very
| significant number of Malayalees work in neighbouring
| states - again due to Kerala having no industries.
|
| I don't have numbers for the last ten years, but if
| remittance has gone down, it is also neck deep in debt. I
| am in Kerala quite frequently, and can confirm that there
| are no industries there - except for tourism, and some IT
| which is relatively miniscule compared to neighbouring
| states.
|
| [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Kerala
| giraffe_lady wrote:
| It's not clear what you tried to start and absent any other
| information your personal failure at it isn't a compelling
| alternative picture of the region's development to me.
|
| I'm sure there are valid other views than the one presented
| in the article, I'm not saying there aren't. But as someone
| who doesn't know much about the region, you aren't really
| giving me more information about it, or giving me any reasons
| to take your view more seriously than the one presented in
| the article.
| jeswin wrote:
| You can completely ignore what I said about my personal
| experience. The rest of it is still valid, and please read
| the child comment I posted on the same sub-thread.
|
| Basically, Kerala exports a workforce because it can't
| produce or export anything else. At roughly a third of the
| GDP (in 2012 according to Wikipedia), it's a remittance
| based economy. Someone commented that remittances are a
| smaller part of the economy of late (and that might well be
| true), but in the last decade or so Kerala is also heavily
| in debt.
| rakejake wrote:
| The article is a classic submarine[0] for Kerala.
|
| "The state has one of the highest concentrations of startups".
| I laughed out loud at this one. Of all the half-truths peddled
| in that article, this was easily the most hilarious and
| egregious.
|
| [0] - https://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html
| seltzered_ wrote:
| Perhaps they mean small business entrepreneurship, not tech
| startups?
| rakejake wrote:
| Whatever it is I am not buying it. Kerala is notoriously an
| incredibly hard place to do business in, so a line like
| this needs some real hard stats to back it up.
| eamag wrote:
| how -> through Gulf migration remittances fueling private
| investment (especially in services), enabled by a skilled
| population and a more market-friendly political environment
| thisislife2 wrote:
| "Market-friendly political environment" did not bring the
| higher HDI that Kerala has now (and still prioritises), even
| before its economic development started. That was because of
| its left- (communist / marxist parties) and centre-left public
| policies. (
| https://www.researchgate.net/publication/309363153_A_Compara...
| ). As Americans and Europeans today debate about how they can
| afford to have a family or buy a house, and the rise of right-
| wing politics due to this, there's something to be said about
| how bridging income / wealth inequality is important in a
| society.
| the_arun wrote:
| Kerala reminds me of California when it comes to natural
| landscapes. I really love that place.
|
| Coming literacy, what does that mean? They all know how to read &
| write in a particular language? OR they have passed minimum
| undergrad?
| harichinnan wrote:
| Literacy mostly means Reading skills. Goes a long way in a poor
| country with an abysmal record for primary education. Kerala
| also has a Higher % of school graduation compared to rest of
| India.
| darth_avocado wrote:
| The definition of literally rate is the ratio of population
| over 7 that can read, write and do arithmetic and apply it in
| their lives. These numbers are over inflated tbh because the
| standards to measure them are pretty debatable. Kerala may have
| 90% literacy rate, but the average literacy rate of India is
| supposed to be 80%+.
| leosanchez wrote:
| A person aged seven and above is considered literate in India
| if they can read and write with understanding in any language.
| crawsome wrote:
| I chuckled at "Litearcy Rate" written on one of the graphs...
| shreyshnaccount wrote:
| the jokes just write themselves
| the_arun wrote:
| Vasco da Gama, is credited with discovering a sea route to India
| by sailing around Africa in 1497-1498, though India was not new
| to the world, and the people of India were not "discovered" by
| Europeans. He entered India through Kerala (Calicut).
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasco_da_Gama
| puckspock wrote:
| Vasco
| greekanalyst wrote:
| It's pretty crazy how many new billionaires have been minted in
| Kerala.
|
| https://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/money/malayalis-make-in...
| aylmao wrote:
| There's a lot to this article, but one interpretation of it is
| that it is a story somewhat similar to China's-- a history with
| communism and gradual opening-up to private capital and the
| global market. In the case of China, capital has entered due to
| its huge export market. In Kerala there seems to have been an
| important capital injection from remittances, and a growing
| tourism industry. The article summarizes it as such:
|
| > In short ways, four forces of change - Kerala's reintegration
| with the global economy, remittances from the Persian Gulf,
| strong welfare policies from a legacy of Leftist government, and
| private investment from individuals and businesses who shared the
| remittance flows - have combined to form the structure of
| Kerala's miracle of human wellbeing with economic growth.
| mathieuh wrote:
| As they say, ex-communists make the best capitalists.
| aylmao wrote:
| I don't think they'd call themselves ex-communist. The ruling
| party is the Communist Party of India.
|
| Also, to be clear, it's a common understanding in Marxism
| that capitalism is a stage of socialism. The "capitalism and
| socialism are opposites" rhetoric is too simplistic.
|
| Socialism is different but built upon capitalism, in a
| similar way, for example, to how electric cars are different
| but built upon gas cars. Marxism opposes neoliberalism and
| other forms of governance that leave capitalism unchecked,
| but doesn't reject everything about capitalism-- "just the
| motor, gas tank, and other harmful parts" you could say.
|
| [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/CapitalismVSocialism/comments/vl
| xxv...
|
| [2] https://www.reddit.com/r/CapitalismVSocialism/comments/1g
| 5kd...
| MathMonkeyMan wrote:
| Paragraph after paragraph restating the question, then:
|
| > In short ways, four forces of change - Kerala's reintegration
| with the global economy, remittances from the Persian Gulf,
| strong welfare policies from a legacy of Leftist government, and
| private investment from individuals and businesses who shared the
| remittance flows - have combined to form the structure of
| Kerala's miracle of human wellbeing with economic growth.
| readthenotes1 wrote:
| So sending tons of people to be indentured servants in Saudi
| Arabian was the secret sauce.
| vishalontheline wrote:
| > sending
|
| They went on their own accord. They wouldn't have gone had
| the opportunity not been large enough. Plenty of people from
| the West have done the same and continue to do so.
| kridsdale1 wrote:
| Not the same, but slavery tends to be productive for
| development. (I reference Indian laborers in UAE whose
| employers confiscate their passports. Yes they are paid, but
| they are not free or well treated.)
| jhanschoo wrote:
| > Hundreds of thousands of people migrated to the Persian
| Gulf states like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the United Arab
| Emirates, Bahrain and Qatar to work in construction, retail
| and services, sectors that saw a massive investment boom
| following the two oil shocks of 1973 and 1979.
|
| > The demand for skilled workers increased as the Gulf
| economies diversified from oil-based jobs to finance and
| business services. While offering jobs in the millions, the
| migration also had a series of broad effects back home on
| occupational diversification, skill accumulation, changing
| gender roles, consumption, economic and social mobility, and
| demographic transitions.
|
| It looks like there they were employed across the value chain
| and the peninsula, some (many?) of which I do not think
| typically practices modern-day slavery.
| readthenotes1 wrote:
| I did say indentured servants, not slaves...
|
| Thonik not sure what the difference is when the servent can
| be killed with impunity
| ghoomketu wrote:
| If Kerala can do it why can't other states like Bihar do it too?
| (Not asking rhetorically)
|
| From what I see from the article the major gains were from
| investment in health and education which should be a no brainer.
| blackoil wrote:
| Poor education at K-12 level. People from Bihar go outside but
| within India, to big cities like Delhi/Mumbai or farms of
| Punjab/Haryana.
| vishalontheline wrote:
| Not sure about Bihar, but talent / labor export isn't just a
| Kerala thing. Having a network does help - makes it easy to
| find a job, find people to live with that speak the same
| language, help in difficult times etc.
| dartharva wrote:
| That's the same as asking "if Singapore can achieve near-zero
| levels of crime, why can't Brazil do it too?" i.e. a
| nonsensical question. The culture is different, the people are
| different and the mindsets are different.
| zkmon wrote:
| India has a vast variation of cultures. A few states in India
| look like they are quite detached from mainstream India, in terms
| of issues, economy, norms, politics etc. This is true for north-
| eastern states as well and probably J&K too. It's like a colorful
| patch-work of different cultures.
|
| However, there is nothing good or bad with these variations.
| Tourism also adds to its economy. Higher per-capita doesn't
| always mean a good thing. Sometimes it comes at a cost of family
| separation etc. Kerala is also known for high levels of alcoholic
| consumption and unhappiness rates.
| vishnugupta wrote:
| This statement
|
| > India has a vast variation of cultures.
|
| isn't consistent with this.
|
| > mainstream India
| dartos wrote:
| Is it?
|
| You can have a variety and a single largest.
| sva_ wrote:
| Mean and variance
| alephnerd wrote:
| > Fifty years ago it was one of India's poorest states
|
| Yea that is a absolutely wrong. A state that had the highest
| literacy rate at independence will unsurprisingly remain at the
| higher end of developmental rankings..
|
| In the 1970s Kerala was already comparable to Indian states from
| a human development and economic standpoint because of a strong
| shipbuilding and cooperative agricultural program (same with then
| undivided Punjab) [0] and by 1990 had developmental indicators
| comparable to Delhi NCR.
|
| Instead, we should look at states that were historically more
| undeveloped than Kerala but are now within range of Kerala.
|
| As such, a better rags to riches model to dig into is Tamil Nadu
| [1] or Haryana [2] - both were on the lower end of India's HDI
| rankings in 1990, and now outperform most states and lead India
| in GDP per Capita as well.
|
| Himachal Pradesh [3] and Jammu Kashmir [4][5] are two others to
| also look at, as they are historically undeveloped agrarian
| Himalayan border states with laggard developmental indicators
| that used land reform, cooperative agribusiness, mass rural
| education drives, and specialized manufacturing (Pharma in
| Himachal, Food Processing in Jammu) to have high HDIs.
|
| [0] - https://eacpm.gov.in/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/State-GDP-
| Wo...
|
| [1] - https://documents.worldbank.org/en/publication/documents-
| rep...
|
| [2] - https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/archive/comment/birth-
| of-h...
|
| [3] - https://documents.worldbank.org/en/publication/documents-
| rep...
|
| [4] - https://ras.org.in/index.php?Article=land_reform_in_kashmir
|
| [5] - https://cup.columbia.edu/book/a-strategic-
| myth/9788194717560...
| blackoil wrote:
| As per your 1st document (page 15). Kerala has risen from 84.6
| to 152 (~80%) while Haryana from 106.9 to 176.8 (~65%) in
| addition to the fact that most of the Haryana's growth has come
| from being in proximity of New Delhi. Same for Tamil Nadu
| (56%).
| alephnerd wrote:
| If you look at the results of India's National Human
| Development Report from 1981, Kerala was already further
| ahead of any other state [0][1]. And the report I listed did
| not have data on half of the states that existed in India in
| 1980.
|
| > most of the Haryana's growth has come from being in
| proximity of New Delhi
|
| Not really.
|
| Delhi NCR de-industrialized in the 1970s-80s due to militant
| labor unionism [2]
|
| Furthermore, much of Haryana's population lives well outside
| of what became Delhi NCR, and urbanization only began in the
| 1980s with the development of SEZs in Manesar, Faridabad, and
| Gurgaon.
|
| > Same for Tamil Nadu (56%).
|
| Tamil Nadu shared similar developmental metrics to Haryana in
| the 1981 NHDR, neighbored a state in an active civil war that
| often leaked into the state (Sri Lanka / LTTE), and had
| severe caste fractures.
|
| [0] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_states_a
| nd_un...
|
| [1] - https://www.researchgate.net/figure/HUMAN-DEVELOPMENT-
| INDEX-...
|
| [2] - https://www.jstor.org/stable/4376065
| kedarkhand wrote:
| Hopefully Uttarakhand can follow Himachal Pradesh, but it is
| ravaged by national parties as of now, best case scenario, the
| new youth leadership of UKD actually wins and does some work
| alephnerd wrote:
| Uttarakhand will not develop unless there are incentives to
| invest outside of Dehradun.
|
| HP doesn't have a "Dehradun", which means local netas have an
| incentive to invest in their zilla instead of hoarding cash
| and real estate in a major hub. Thus, Himachal benefited from
| a Pharma and Food Processing industrial policy in the
| 1990s-2000s that industrialized the rural area around Baddi
| and Una, and a lot of other smaller food processing and light
| manufacturing industries across lower Himachal.
|
| Also, Uttarakhand has too few MLAs for the size of
| population. UK has 70 MLAs but 10 million people, but HP has
| 68 MLAs with 6.5 million people. This means UK MLAs are much
| more divorced from local panchayats compared to in HP.
|
| There is a good case study about this at Harvard Business
| School [0]
|
| [0] - https://www.hbs.edu/ris/Publication%20Files/Asian_Surve
| y_550...
| alephnerd wrote:
| > best case scenario, the new youth leadership of UKD
| actually wins and does some work
|
| Trust me. You don't want that. Ussi najuwane nu khadi pata ni
| hege (Kangri but translate to your equivalent)
| alephnerd wrote:
| Also, not hating on the Kerala model - every state in India is
| now in the position where they can take advantage of it.
|
| But I do not think it's replicable in most other LDCs due to
| historical quirks.
|
| Like, Malawi, Guinea, or Afghanistan can't use much of the
| "Kerala Model" to succeed, as India was unique in that it was
| subsidizing the UAE's economy with the "Gulf Rupee" [0] (maybe
| Cambodia/Laos thanks to Thailand, but it ain't a great reason
| why IYKYK)
|
| [0] -
| https://ar.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%B1%D9%88%D8%A8%D9%8A%D8%...
| dilawar wrote:
| Kerala is also the only state in India where the rural population
| lives longer (2-3y on average) than the urban population!!
| dartharva wrote:
| The dominant majority of Keralite youth that can, still emigrates
| to other states and countries. I have come across hundreds of
| Malayalis outside of Kerala who talk fondly of their homes, but
| refuse to admit there being any scope of nontrivial academic or
| professional growth within the state.
|
| On the other hand.. yes, Kerala is very beautiful in many ways. I
| wish I was born there because it's nigh impossible to settle in
| permanently otherwise.
| 1zael wrote:
| My great-grandparents were landowners in Kollengode, a village on
| the foothills of the Western Ghats. They operated on a system of
| sharecropping, which the Communist party took away (along with
| their land) in the 1970s for redistribution. While this
| eliminated much of our family wealth, most of the next generation
| family members weren't disturbed by it because they were proud of
| Kerala's reputation of having the highest literacy rates and
| human development standards in India due to these reforms.
|
| Many people think of North Indians as the de-facto "business"
| class in India, but Kerala's long history of international trade
| has given its posterity a rich history of merchant knowledge. My
| parents started a technology company in Kerala and have seen the
| Communist party swing from traditional land and educational
| reforms to private market support. This in large part due to
| remittances from the Middle East fueling the state economy.
|
| The ecological risks from climate change (e.x. the mass flooding
| that occurred in the past several years) is a real risk that
| claimed the lives of several employees at my parent's company.
| Kerala is posed to become the biggest success story out of India,
| but it needs to remain vigilant in investing in private markets
| and infrastructure projects to address these risks and maintain
| sustainable growth.
| benced wrote:
| Kerala has extremely aggressive out-migration (including my
| entire family): it is a bad place to be ambitious, particularly
| with the France-like union culture. If India is to become China-
| rich or Mexico-rich, my prediction is Kerala will regress to the
| mean of India states. Its model seems geared towards being an
| extremely good place to be poor (which is a huge achievement to
| be clear: they dealt with COVID better than the US, universal
| literacy is amazing etc) but not towards getting richer.
| eikenberry wrote:
| I'm curious, how does their "aggressive out-migration" play
| out? Extremely high, progressive tax system? No funding
| infrastructure for new business? I can imagine many ways but my
| thoughts lean toward financial reasons due to your last
| sentence.
| inapis wrote:
| Inability to build a business easily nor allow others to
| build one. The union culture is way too strong. There is a
| joke that the Kerala model of development requires a rich oil
| state nearby.
| fakedang wrote:
| Ambitious Keralites move out of the state to set up
| businesses. The ones who remain usually get rich through a
| mix of unethical businesses, political party connections and
| corruption, or the gold and money-lending businesses (which
| were inherently shady). Keralites are either highly
| ambitious, in which case they go to more welcoming cities
| such as Delhi, Bangalore and Chennai, or extremely lazy, in
| which case they stay at home and abuse the welfare state. The
| welfare state is so abused by lazy government employees who
| will do anything to block you from setting up your business.
| And if it isn't them stopping you, it's the pesky political
| parties who will send their goons after you to charge for
| every task.
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokku_kooli
|
| For instance, the richest Keralite, Yussufali MA, made his
| fortune in the Middle East. His sons-in-law, both
| billionaires, as well as KP Basheer, Ravi Pillai, PMC Menon
| and Mohammed Ali of Gulfar made their fortune in the Middle
| East, all of whom are silent billionaires even most Indians
| barely know of. Vivek Ramaswamy's parents were from Kerala
| too, as is Thomas Kurian (head of GCP).
|
| If you look at the West, Keralites are increasingly taking
| spots in the medical and healthcare sectors, especially
| nursing, and now even the education sector. There are
| Keralite teachers in the oilfields of Midland, Texas, because
| most people are otherwise not ready to work there. Some of my
| neighbours relatives from back home were even working in
| Afghanistan for the USG, making bank for working in a
| warzone. The only groups that are more or equally as
| prominent as Keralites worldwide might be the Gujaratis (the
| Patel motel guys and diamond merchants) and the Jews.
| mistrial9 wrote:
| poor is a measure of many things, not just money. The stable
| cultures are looking very good compared to others IMHO
| Der_Einzige wrote:
| This is what happens when literal communists run your
| government.
| moomin wrote:
| Honestly, reading this article, it's not making Kerala-style
| communism sound bad. What's more, they appear to have pivoted
| when they'd achieved their aims into making people richer.
| It's a classic "invest, then profit" story, only for an
| entire state.
| rakejake wrote:
| The article is co-written by a member of Kerala's Planning
| Board and heavily oversells the state. I'd say Kerala is
| nowhere near rich so even the title is technically
| incorrect.
| rdedev wrote:
| When COVID was spreading around china the state govt was
| putting out public announcements about this disease and
| what symptoms to watch out for. I remember that even in
| the month of Feb 2020 there were public announcements in
| train stations. There is a lot of emphasis on education
| and health in the state. Granted it may not be rich as
| other states but it leads other states in a lot of other
| markers
| decimalenough wrote:
| Kerala is rich by Indian standards, but its GDP per
| capital is still only around $3500/year, making it
| nowhere near rich by world standards.
| trompetenaccoun wrote:
| That may be but the topic of the thread is how rich
| Kerala supposedly is, not how super awesome their public
| train announcements are. The claim is not just false, the
| article is outright propaganda given how one of the co-
| authors works for the state government.
| rdedev wrote:
| I guess my main point is that a communist type govt was
| not exclusively bad for Kerala since they took a lot of
| effort to improve education and public health.
|
| You can look at other sources to see how good kerala is
| doing wrt other states but I do agree the article over
| emphasised the good parts without any hint to it's bad
| parts
| srean wrote:
| To put this in context, during Covid, hundreds of bodies
| were being dumped in the Ganges river, buried in shallow
| graves on the sandbars in states like Uttar Pradesh. The
| state govt took an active role to remove the grave
| markers so that an accurate estimate of the numbers could
| not be ascertained. These were covered by local bloggers,
| vloggers and news channels.
|
| Kerala is one of the few states that managed medical
| supplies of Oxygen pretty well. In many other states many
| died because hospitals ran out of it.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| Socialism with Kerala characteristics? I'm a bit skeptical
| of that, people often point to the Scandinavian model as
| especially successful but when you look into the data, that
| actually combines redistribution (funded by higher taxes)
| with a _lot_ of economic freedom and a light-touch attitude
| from government that are all ideologically counter to
| "communism" or "socialism" of any kind.
| 1024core wrote:
| That's how "communism" is in India. Two states (West Bengal
| and Kerala) are run by "Communist" parties. But these
| parties are quite different from what people typically mean
| by "Communists".
| trompetenaccoun wrote:
| Have you read the Communist Manifesto? It also makes
| Communism sound like a good idea. Nevermind that Kerala
| doesn't have a particularly high GDP per capita even by
| southern Indian standards. It's not rich by any rational
| measure, not in median income or otherwise. There is a lot
| of poverty, slightly better compared to some of the
| northern states but then South India in general does a bit
| better than the north so there isn't anything particularly
| noteworthy.
|
| Btw, for some historic context this part of India used to
| be extremely rich in the past by global standards,
| centuries ago. They became rich with international trade.
| Modern India is nowhere close to its wealthy past, the
| subcontinent as a whole produced the largest percentage of
| the world's GDP during Late Antiquity, surpassing China and
| all others!
| RUnconcerned wrote:
| Actually, when literal communists run your government, you
| become China-rich, as OP put it. Contrast China's economic
| development with that of India's post 1950.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| China is the best case, yes. But "literal communists" also
| ran Cambodia, North Korea, Cuba etc. Not so good!
| ryoshoe wrote:
| Haiti is capitalist but people don't use it an example
| for capitalism as a whole. More important than a stated
| ideology is whether a government is corrupt
| RobotToaster wrote:
| Cuba is doing pretty well for a country under one of the
| biggest and longest blockades in history.
| pphysch wrote:
| It's only fair to compare them to other victims of
| unprovoked Western aggression, like Libya. In that arena,
| they are actually doing relatively well, and imagine how
| successful they could be without the "global policeman's"
| boot on their neck.
| fakedang wrote:
| Seems like the secret to prosperity is actually nuclear
| weapons. Rush to get those first, then focus on whatever
| shit you actually want to do.
| satvikpendem wrote:
| Compare the policies and results of Deng to Mao, the latter
| is more "literally communist." Their embracing of
| capitalist principles is what enabled their boom, same with
| Vietnam with their Doi Moi policies.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| Deng famously said "white cat, black cat, as long as it
| catches mice it's a good cat". His policy choices were
| not driven by 'embracing' of any principles but pure
| pragmatism.
| satvikpendem wrote:
| Yes, capitalist principles are indeed pragmatic, hence
| why he chose them.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| "Capitalism" is a very confusing word that should be
| avoided in a serious discussion one way or the other,
| society is a _lot_ more complex than that. For instance
| "crony capitalism" is also seemingly capitalism but is
| directly opposed to the broad principles of a market
| economy that people think of as good.
| TulliusCicero wrote:
| It's hilarious how uncomfortable certain internet posters
| are about getting the specific of what policies Deng
| embraced to get that economic growth.
|
| They know exactly what it is, but they don't wanna say it
| out loud.
| facile3232 wrote:
| > it is a bad place to be ambitious
|
| Ambition doesn't imply exploitation. I think you mean
| "predatory".
| zozbot234 wrote:
| Typically "a bad place to be ambitious" implies that others
| will try to exploit you instead. Keep in mind that a
| mismanaged government can be a _lot_ more predatory than any
| private actor.
| pphysch wrote:
| > Keep in mind that a mismanaged government can be a lot
| more predatory than any private actor.
|
| What's the basis for this claim? What is a "mismanaged
| government" but one that is controlled by narrow private
| interests? Or is this coming from a "all tax is
| exploitation" angle?
| zozbot234 wrote:
| Is there a government that's _not_ ultimately controlled
| by narrow private interests? A well-managed government is
| merely one where inbuilt norms and traditions (including
| the Western traditions of constitutional human rights and
| separation of powers, but not only!) manage to limit the
| extent to which the narrow private interest of government
| actors can lead to predatory exploitation of the broader
| public.
| miohtama wrote:
| Kerala is Finland of India.
| spyckie2 wrote:
| I noticed this in Taiwan between 2018-2020 when I was staying
| there. A highly educated population but with little to no
| opportunities. Most of very ambitious talent found jobs in
| China or Singapore.
|
| A strong business environment, or strong investment
| opportunities, or a large consumer base is very much needed to
| have attractive jobs. A strongly educated workforce does little
| to enable such an environment. Intuitively, it is just very
| hard to make money off of a small, low income population, and
| it is even harder to export services built for a local market
| to a non local market. So the ambitious talent just find
| opportunities elsewhere.
|
| It also depends how hard it is to migrate out of the region. If
| there are strong family ties and good standard of living, you'd
| be surprised at how much talent is willing to stay.
|
| Interestingly enough, Taiwan in 2024/2025 has seen huge growth
| in wages, for many reasons, but the biggest IMO being the
| highly educated workforce.
| intended wrote:
| The article specifically talks about how Kerala has some of the
| highest concentrations of startups in India.
|
| Also, the Communist party in power has not stopped themselves
| from adapting to the new times and dumping older views.
|
| The most recent Econ Nobel showed how institutions create
| wealthy nations, and Kerala is building those.
|
| Perhaps the statement "not a place to be ambitious" can be seen
| in a narrower sense, while seeing that it leaves much more
| space for the median individual.
| snyp wrote:
| Love Kerala, highly underrated tourist destination IMHO compared
| to the more traditional Indian destinations.
| __rito__ wrote:
| Kerala is a very empty place. People emigrate parmanently or stay
| outside for decades. Elderlies live on their own. Schools and
| home remain empty. It is just intuitively sad. One should read
| this interesting piece- _" Kerala: A ghost town in the world's
| most populated country"_ [0].
|
| Many laborers from my state- West Bengal travel to ameliorate the
| labor shortage of Kerala. Because their laborers are in the Gulf.
| The unskilled labor wage in Kerala is almost twice of my state.
|
| There is a common phrase in Bengal- "Kerala money" to explain
| big, well-made houses in villages mired with poverty. Many
| people, mainly Muslims migrate en masse to Kerala to earn a
| relatively much higher income and save the money to build big
| houses and buy motorbikes. We call that "Kerala money".
|
| [0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-64936519
| redzedi wrote:
| y is this on HN first page? by wat measure is Kerala rich? No
| industries if exports bodies to ME, commie rule for decades
| atrophied all industry. It's a political hitjob against India
| central gov, HN should keep its standard above this shitshow
| thisislife2 wrote:
| Last I checked, Kerala was still part of India. So why should
| the central government of India feel jealous about an article
| praising the indian state of Kerala?
| air3y wrote:
| While not agreeing to the parent comment, it comes from the
| domestic politics now playing out in that state. After India
| got independent in the 40s, communists were the main
| opposition political party in the country for decades. Now,
| their presence in power is mostly confined to just this small
| state. While the center and most states are ruled by a hindu
| nationalist party. This has led to the politics in kerala
| moving to a sort of secessionary path. A political alliance
| of the communist-christian-muslim groups against hindu groups
| and rest of india.
| geocrasher wrote:
| The subject of Kerala resulted in one of the most memorable
| conversations I've had with a doctor that wasn't about medical
| stuff. My late wife had to have an emergency procedure and her
| regular doctor was not available, and so she got a wonderful
| Indian doctor (Context: This was near Seattle WA). Having worked
| with many Indians, I felt comfortable asking him which part of
| India he was from and he said "Kerala" and at the same time we
| both said "God's own country" and his face LIT UP. "OOOhh, you
| know Kerela!?"
|
| "Kerala is Hawaii at a tenth the price! You _must_ go. The people
| there love three things: Alcohol, Food, and _side to side head
| bob_ Alcohol! "
|
| He was delightful, and he took great care of my wife. I fully
| intend to visit Kerala at some point.
| shermantanktop wrote:
| > side to side head bob
|
| Does this have a name? I know exactly what it looks like, and I
| think I get some of the connotations of emphasis and
| agreement...
| pepve wrote:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_bobble
| amriksohata wrote:
| Same old fake caste tropes, article just smells of academic
| nonsense. The story of Keralas success could be applied to any
| state in India due to recent government policies, even Gujarat is
| doing better.
| thisislife2 wrote:
| you may be right that the economic development of Kerala in the
| last 2-3 decades could be because of India's overall economic
| development. But note that Kerala is consistently in the lead
| to many indian states, including Gujarat, in terms of Human
| Development Index. Gujarat continues to lag on HDI despite
| being historically economically richer than Kerala:
|
| - 2011: HDI in India rises by 21%: Kerala leads, Gujarat far
| behind - https://www.firstpost.com/india/hdi-in-india-rises-
| by-21-ker...
|
| - 2011: Malnutrition mars Gujarat's growth story: HDI Report -
| https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/ahmedabad/malnutrit...
|
| - 2017: Gujarat lags behind developed states if HDI parameters
| are compared: P Chidambaram -
| https://www.financialexpress.com/india-news/gujarat-lags-beh...
|
| - 2021: If Gujarat is a model, then the real toppers in
| development indicators, like Kerala and Tamil Nadu, must be
| supermodels - https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/the-
| gujarat-middle/ar...
|
| - 2021: HDI: How States Fare in Human Development -
| https://ceda.ashoka.edu.in/hdi-how-states-fare-in-human-deve...
| malshe wrote:
| I have visited Kerala a few times and I really loved it as a
| tourist. However, my company also did some work there and we
| found local labor unions extremely difficult to deal with. Never
| acquired any new clients there once we finished initial projects.
| 2511 wrote:
| I am not from Kerala but I have spent the last 25 years there. I
| have family in Kerala. Kerala got rich because of emigration.
| Sometime during the 80s, Keralites began migrating to gulf in
| very large numbers. The foreign remittance is the biggest reason
| why the state is rich. It can be said the proximity to sea and a
| history of trade with gulf countries enabled Keralites to
| migrate. And of course, the will and courage of the early
| emigrants to migrate to a different country.
|
| If we look beyond the foreign remittance, there are quite a few
| issues in the state. Unemployment is much higher than national
| average[1] Kerala youth are struggling with the drugs problem, in
| high numbers.[2] Very little industrial investment because its a
| state with communist government and not industry friendly. There
| are towns where every household has someone abroad. Only the
| elderly are living in those big houses.
|
| [1]https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/education/news/kerala-
| am... [2] https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/india/kerala-
| is-in...
| Nevermark wrote:
| I find the over use of "socialist" as a negative term to apply to
| any mutual investment, regardless of returns, so myopic.
|
| Families are "socialist". Investing in each other and their
| young.
|
| Wealthy families are even more "socialist". Dramatically so.
| Investing in offspring through childhood, higher education, and
| often long after.
|
| For good reason. Education and health have a compounding impact
| on people's potentials, for themselves and as a benefit to
| others.
|
| Key word here is: _Compounding_
|
| That being said, all investments must be prioritized against a
| total balance sheet. Debt also compounds. And Kerala demonstrates
| health and education are a matter of prioritization of efforts,
| even more so than money.
|
| EDIT: Not promoting actual Socialism. Which has been demonstrated
| to be catastrophically unstable, quickly transforming into an
| authoritarianism of elites, inevitably economically propped up by
| a "free market", either ad hoc, underground or as a "dual"
| system. Critiquing a particular brand of "anti-socialism" in the
| U.S. that can best be described as anti-national investment in
| people, without consideration for specifics or benefits, and
| often agnostic on corporate subsidies.
| schnable wrote:
| Are families socialist, or clannish and nepotistic? I don't
| think you can run a country like a family, especially a
| multicultural transcontinental one.
| Nevermark wrote:
| I completely agree. I am not suggesting actual socialism,
| which has failed spectacularly.
|
| Added edit to clarify.
| thisislife2 wrote:
| I would say there is a high socialist elements - a parent
| doesn't have to sacrifice their economic comfort or even time
| just to give their kids a better education or better
| lifestyle. But many do so.
| mempko wrote:
| Turns out investing in your own people returns dividends.
| Unfortunately, the current administration is divesting from the
| American people. DOGE, and it's cutting of federal grants is a
| direct example of this divestment. What's happening now in the US
| reminds me a lot of a mixture of Gorbachev and Yeltsin, where the
| Chicago economists came in and their shock therapy and large
| divestment decimated the wealth and health of ordinary people.
| Ray20 wrote:
| >Turns out investing in your own people returns dividends.
| Unfortunately, the current administration is divesting from the
| American people.
|
| As we see, in the case of America, these dividends are much
| larger. So much larger that they are not even comparable to
| what is described in the article.
|
| >mixture of Gorbachev and Yeltsin, where the Chicago economists
| came in and their shock therapy and large divestment
|
| But that's not what happened in the USSR. Gorbachev simply make
| government open and transparent for people, rejected
| totalitarian oppression, and it immediately became clear that
| the party had almost zero support.
|
| And since it is impossible to have near-zero support without
| totalitarian oppression, the tops of the Communist Party (led
| by Yeltsin) decided to go cash out and simply divided among
| themselves all the assets under the party's control.
|
| That's it. It had nothing to do with Chicago economist and
| shock therapy, which was just an excuse for dividing government
| assets.
|
| And it's not like wealth and health of ordinary people suffered
| to any significant degree. It's just that before Gorbachev and
| Yeltsin all the statistics were fake, and people were repressed
| for contradicting it. But after the coup, no one cared. In
| fact, the only ones at a loss were middle level party
| bureaucrats, who did not have any real assets under their
| control, but occupied an extremely privileged position in the
| Soviet system and parasitizing on the body of an oppressed
| society.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| Needs a Tldr!
| hshshshshsh wrote:
| * Access to sea routes from west and east. Easy access to ideas
| from around the world. Christianity and Islam came to Kerala long
| time back peacefully.
|
| * No big invasions from outside India. North India constantly
| faced Invasion.
|
| * Tropical weather which makes doing agriculture easy.
|
| * Good rainfall and no need to worry about water. Many Indian
| states you need to worry about water accessibility.
|
| * No shit given to anyone caste or religion for the most part
| except for things like marriage.
| seltzered_ wrote:
| Just sharing bookmarks, see also
| https://www.mdpi.com/2071-1050/11/16/4481 (talk link:
| https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u-OdFBARXHg ) (via
| https://ashfordhall2018.wordpress.com/ ) for some further
| research on Kerala, India and economics.
| shelled wrote:
| These are my personal/anecdotal observations, of course, for a
| state I love.
|
| Compared to many other better states and cities, the places in
| Kerala have this combination of low expenses, good
| government/public health care. It's utter shit in most of India
| -- including other rich states like Karnataka (~Bangalore). The
| place has no or less hostility to outsiders, a general non-RW
| political atmosphere, and being less polluted or free from it.
| While Tamil Nadu (~Chennai) is ahead of Kerala in many ways, it
| kind of falls behind on integration points and weather (that's
| just a personal preference).
|
| I see one more difference there (this is kind of specific, and I
| just wanted to take an example) -- all over India, people are
| scared of cops. Severe chronic fear of the police (from the
| British times; maybe continued). You don't get in their way, you
| don't talk to them, you don't argue with them, and you hope they
| never notice you exist. Mostly! Not in Kerala (and to some extent
| in Tamil Nadu as well) -- in Kerala, police in most cases don't
| get that some kind of feared reverence at all. It has always
| heartening to see police getting questioned by locals there when
| they demand something from the people. I am someone originally
| from the Indian North, and it was an alien experience -- just
| like seeing government/public hospitals in villages and small
| towns that are well-equipped and functioning.
|
| The thing about protest culture and the so-called union culture
| that right-wingers and/or the "economically progressive" folks
| accuse Kerala of -- is actually a highly educated populace (very
| close to 100%; let that sink in -- because we are talking about
| India) standing up for their rights and not allowing either the
| corporates or the government to steam-roll them. Is that ideal? I
| don't think so. But then they easily forget that Kerala always
| had a left-leaning ideology and India's centre never had any left
| majority Govt (hell, not even significant representation), which
| means the state has always been at odds with the centre--and
| still did well literally on its own.
|
| The Indian right-wing loves to hate on Kerala (you might see some
| right here; veiled or direct; or not; and that's alright - I
| guess, people just like and dislike things) -- calling the state
| and its people with left-bashing slurs and abuses. There have
| been concerted efforts to flare up the Hindu-Muslim divide in the
| state, which has worked almost everywhere -- with great success
| in the North India (which is the mostly uneducated, mostly
| conservative, mostly poor and backward India) and to good success
| in Karnataka (~Bangalore) and Maharashtra (~Mumbai). These last
| two are among the richer states of India, while the North is
| generally a proper shit-hole (I am originally from there).
|
| One can go on and keep counting the majestically built homes that
| are empty most of the year because the well-off occupants mostly
| stay out of the state or India or attribute everything to the
| Gulf. But the bottom line is it is much better than the hellhole
| that most of India is. They also conveniently forget that it has
| been in direct and active trade contact with the rest of the
| world (especially Europe) from very old times. The state has one
| of the oldest mosques and churches in the world (not just India).
| I have seen the tech industry of Kerala very closely. There are
| some boutique software places in that state - not very big
| (except one kinda famous FOSS photos, 2fa app shop), some service
| industry but not gigantic like in other states et cetera. Do I
| have hopes from the place? Yes. Will it be fast? I doubt it.
|
| Do their socio-economic-political choices have their drawbacks
| and unflattering outcomes? Yes, of course. But I think Kerala
| state and its people have realised one thing--that by virtue of
| being in a third-world country like India, they have two options:
| either keep working and keep getting better at a slower pace
| while maintaining a better "quality of life" compared to almost
| all of the rest of India or give in and become a sweatshop like a
| lot of India currently is and for them if that means moving out
| of India to do work and earn money and send money back home then
| so be it.
| NoelJacob wrote:
| > famous FOSS photos, 2fa
|
| Ente photos I assume
| air3y wrote:
| > The thing about protest culture and the so-called union
| culture that right-wingers and/or the "economically
| progressive" folks accuse Kerala of -- is actually a highly
| educated populace (very close to 100%; let that sink in --
| because we are talking about India) standing up for their
| rights and not allowing either the corporates or the government
| to steam-roll them.
|
| The militant labour problem is something even the communists in
| kerala have started distancing themselves from. Just a small
| example - Even a few years ago, anyone shifting homes didn't
| have the right to load and unload their own personal
| belongings. They could get it done only through unions. Now if
| they did do it by themselves, and the union got wind of it,
| they could get beaten up and still have to pay the unions. It
| was legally outlawed only a few years ago. For industries and
| commercial establishments, this is still applicable.
|
| >There have been concerted efforts to flare up the Hindu-Muslim
| divide in the state, ... The state sent the largest number of
| recruits for ISIS. A national islamic terror group called PFI
| which was banned only a couple of years back was founded
| primarily in Kerala and spread nationwide. The state has been a
| hub of islamic terrorism for ages. It has been a hub for
| islamist terrorism, especially in south india for ages. Due to
| the unique demography of the state, with hindus no longer a
| majority, backlash to these have not been like in other states.
| teleforce wrote:
| TL;DR:
|
| "From a historical perspective, Kerala has at least four distinct
| qualities that most states in India do not share. First, it has a
| centuries-long history of trade and migration, particularly with
| West Asia and Europe. Second, Kerala is rich in natural
| resources, which have been commercially exploited. Third, Kerala
| boasts a highly literate, skilled and mobile workforce. Finally,
| the state has a strong Left political movement. Any story we tell
| about its advances in health and education or its recent income
| growth must refer to some of these longstanding variables."
| air3y wrote:
| Since the authors are communists, What they left out was that
| Kerala, especially the southern half of it preserved its
| independence (though only nominally under the British) from
| foreign occupations, something most other states in india
| couldn't.
| Cherian wrote:
| I was born in the second southernmost district of Kerala, Quilon
| (now Kollam). I am now a U.S. citizen in the Bay Area. Growing up
| in Quilon, I attended an Anglo-Indian boy's school called Infant
| Jesus - in a small strip of land called Thangassery, people
| predominantly spoke English. I was taught British dialects
| emphasizing pronunciations that mimicked the world stage. I
| didn't really understand it until much later in life.
|
| In my 20s, the contrast hit when I traveled across other parts of
| India.
|
| Kerala has a mix of Western population that decided to stay back
| after the Indian Independence that brought with them
| Christianity, education, hospitals, and the Catholic culture.
| Kerala is also one of the few places in India where you can eat
| beef without inhibitions.
|
| The writer hasn't emphasized this enough, but when oil struck the
| Middle East in the 1960s, the massive influx of blue and white-
| collar labor (who had the English language and engineering
| skills) that helped set up what's now Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain,
| Oman, and many other countries was built by Malayalees. My
| father-in-law was one of the earlier engineers at Aramco in
| Saudi. The Middle Eastern money has flown back to Kerala thanks
| to high bank interest rates (nearly 10%) and landlocked real
| estate that helped raise the state's GDP.
| anon291 wrote:
| > Kerala has a mix of Western population that decided to stay
| back after the Indian Independence that brought with them
| Christianity, education, hospitals, and the Catholic culture.
| Kerala is also one of the few places in India where you can eat
| beef without inhibitions.
|
| Christianity in Kerala is _much_ older than European
| Christianity. Literally the land of the Apostles
| shw1n wrote:
| A funny anecdote from my grandfather (I was raised in California
| but family's from Kerala) related to the migration of Keralite
| workers to Gulf was from when he went to Bahrain to supposedly
| build a magnificent church as the lead engineer (he was a civil
| engineer).
|
| It was supposed to be his life's work and he said he left with
| grandiose aspirations.
|
| Only to get caught in the Kuwait War and barely make it back in a
| bus of refugees.
|
| He always used this as a reminder of "pride goes before a fall",
| but I personally just found it a fascinating reminder of the
| sheer random horrificness that life can bestow out of nowhere.
| rehupaa wrote:
| Namaste!!! Kerala and all India states are very beautifull places
| of the India. I'd traveling there 3 months in 2017-2018 and only
| one seroius problem is everywhere, pollution of plastic and all
| kind of rubbish! Then people burn rubbish in fire! They vsn send
| space craft to out of the planet but not manage to recycle bio
| compost, glass bottles and metal cans ext.. people throw to
| nature all rubbish!! So it is time to stand up and start
| recycling everything and then edugate all peoples to do that in
| every day but most importat is fix the infra for recycling. Come
| to see that procedure in scandinavia!! Compost material is super
| hood soil for growing yes oy is very easy when goverment is make
| a infra for ready. I have living all together 1.5 year in India
| 1990's and 2017-2018 so have a good understund of Indian way to
| live and one part of my body and soul is always living and love
| mama India and humans of every hierarcy andco relious parts...
| sorry typo ext.. greetings from Finland!! Dhanyavaad!!
| sva_ wrote:
| I'll have what he's having
| sowhat25 wrote:
| Joy?
| rishikeshs wrote:
| Never thought a post about Kerala will reach the front page of
| HN.
| poisonwomb wrote:
| These communists sound like they have the right idea; maybe we
| should try it!
| NoelJacob wrote:
| Coming from Kerala to Europe for a short Erasmus, I feel here you
| have to visit a huge chain for buying anything on a discount.
| What I mean is big supermarket, or electronics or transport
| chains. Kerala's premature strikes against these were the only
| reason they didn't grow as Kerala grew. Can't fully say if it's a
| good thing but it does feel safer not being dependent on a
| private entities for many basic things.
| sriacha wrote:
| Are you saying large chain stores don't exist in Kerala? How
| are you not dependent upon private entities for basics?
| NoelJacob wrote:
| You can still live comfortably without depending on private
| (I meant large private) entities in Kerala. Also there are
| supermarket chains but they haven't overtaken normal non-
| chain grocery supermarkets. Not even close. Of the top of my
| head I can list three chains near me and most of my household
| lives without needing to buy from them and just going to
| regular stores.
|
| Edit: To add to it. In Italy, you eat pasta for lunch. To buy
| cheap pasta you go to Pam/Conad/Carrefour/Aldi/Lidl
| supermarket chain and buy Pam/Conad/Adli/Lidl branded ones as
| usually they are the cheapest buy vary in quality. But here
| getting cheap Rice, for lunch, is different. In Italy, to buy
| basic milk you do the same and probably the cheap whole fat
| one is branded by the supermarket. Here, you go to the diary,
| which gets from a collection of local farmers. To buy eggs,
| you don't go buy supermarket branded eggs, you could pay
| someone in your neighborhood with animals to supply. I've
| never seen supermarket branded eggs until I reached the west
| to be honest.
| zozbot234 wrote:
| The dirty little secret is that mom-and-pop stores are
| extremely inefficient compared to big chain businesses. A
| big business is also a lot more likely to actually pay
| taxes to the government, and it _still_ manages to beat the
| mom-and-pop store on efficiency even after accounting for
| that!
| NoelJacob wrote:
| Yes, they are efficient, obviously as economies of scale.
| Add in consulting and quants and they'll rise in
| profitability. But the problem is decision making power
| lies in hands of select few. When you are a too large a
| corporate, you basically have no oversight over how much
| you can optimize in exchange for ill social effects. All
| corporates had humble beginnings, and over time hyper
| optimization for profits creep in. Maybe in the
| beginning, the synthetic preservative they add to
| optimize profits, was below the threshold, but over the
| years as need for profit and 'growth' grows and,
| managements and mindsets change, they could very well go
| above the threshold and, being big now be profitable
| enough even after they were caught and they had to deal
| with the repercussions. Well why would a rational actor
| not squeeze every dollar out of the customer when they
| can still be profitable even when accounting for the
| money they could pay as repercussions for fraud? I'm not
| saying mom-and-pop are defenders of righteousness or
| smth, but just from watching the news I can say I trust
| them over corporates, because they are A) are scared of
| law B) feel better moral, idk attitude?, towards the
| customer, mostly and COMPARATIVELY than the corps. Of the
| top of my head, I think, cooperatives might be the
| current best solution or some decentralized
| frameworks/systems for stores considering efficiency vs
| power concentration.
|
| > pay taxes to the government
|
| Here, at their turnover local stores are exempt from
| income tax
| zozbot234 wrote:
| > When you are a too large a corporate, you basically
| have no oversight over how much you can optimize in
| exchange for ill social effects
|
| It's actually easier to have meaningful oversight over a
| single larger firm than a bunch of local stores. The
| thing is that what people often refer to as "ill social
| effects" of large businesses are not proven to any
| meaningful extent. At least the gain in efficiency is
| quite real and can be readily ascertained.
| Venkatesh10 wrote:
| Never have I ever imagined the state I grew up will end up on the
| front page of Hacker News. Keralites have a common skill of
| migrating almost everywhere. They have huge connection with the
| middle east.
| omnibrain wrote:
| Funny seeing Kerala here. Just a few days ago I got a post into
| my timeline where someone wrote about taking a forest road out of
| Kerala in the evening and what a bad idea that was, because of
| Google Maps not working right and wild animals in the woods. That
| lead me to looking it up on google maps and I noticed something
| curious: It looks like Kerala has border checkpoints to the
| surrounding states. Complete with turnpikes. Is this normal in
| India? Or just Kerala? Are these even border checkpoints? (They
| are labeled as such on Google Maps, but that could be wrong)
| basiccalendar74 wrote:
| This is normal for most state border in India. They mostly
| inspect commercial trucks
| kdin wrote:
| The key question one should ask is where the money came from?
|
| The answer is Keralites moved out of the state for work and sent
| back most of their earnings. What is useful is if Kerala is able
| to encourage home built businesses that brought in the money
| while keeping the Keralites inside.
| ricksunny wrote:
| I wrote about Kerala during a visit there in 2008. Maybe a
| backpacking tourist's snapshot in time, but hey it's data - some
| observations on literacy and cultural value of education passing
| to the younger generation:
|
| https://walkabout165.blogspot.com/2008/03/maybe-if-i-disable...
|
| (also mentioned in the 3rd image caption of
| https://walkabout165.blogspot.com/2008/05/retrospective.html ,
| observation on intepreting what wealth means)
| codepathfinder wrote:
| Kerala is a must visit place, The boat house at allepey, long
| drive through the mountains between Tamilnadu + Kerala is one of
| the best experience you could have <3
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2025-03-28 23:00 UTC)