[HN Gopher] The Biology of B-Movie Monsters (2003)
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       The Biology of B-Movie Monsters (2003)
        
       Author : cainxinth
       Score  : 55 points
       Date   : 2025-03-28 13:40 UTC (9 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (fathom.lib.uchicago.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (fathom.lib.uchicago.edu)
        
       | anthk wrote:
       | Now to the same with Pokemon, 1st and 2nd gens. There are tons of
       | 'monsters' with real life counterparts, such as electric eels, an
       | iron shell based snails (living on boiling, geisers?) and so
       | on...
        
         | pvg wrote:
         | I would totally read a Cryptobiology/Public transit/Self-help
         | piece titled _Take The Electric Ell_
        
           | anthk wrote:
           | "eel", sorry.
        
             | pvg wrote:
             | Ell worked pretty well too!
        
             | mikestew wrote:
             | There's still time to edit your post. Look for the "edit"
             | link in the header of your post.
        
       | yesfitz wrote:
       | Always (usually) fun to read an expert talk about their field as
       | it crops up in unusual places, at least when it's done without an
       | ego. I've avoided the YouTube clickbait "real bank robber reviews
       | movies" videos, but maybe I shouldn't.
       | 
       | Meta: Unfortunately, even the earliest snapshot of this page on
       | the Wayback Machine doesn't contain working images:
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20040624122432/https://fathom.li...
        
         | Renevith wrote:
         | If you're looking for some good quality "expert reviews their
         | field as represented in movies" videos without too much
         | clickbait, Vanity Fair has a long playlist of them that I
         | enjoyed:
         | https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZ2lDrDpOLrusAYQFq2yVHf...
        
       | api wrote:
       | Now do space opera!
       | 
       | The Expanse is probably the most realistic of fast-paced battles
       | in the stars space opera, and I've seen analyses that show that
       | the Epstein drive is at the edge of what physics would _possibly_
       | allow. But those UN, MCRN, and Belter ships would need something
       | you don 't see at least in the series (or described in the
       | books): heat sinks. They'd have to have radiators or they'd melt.
       | Even if the drive was insanely efficient (like >90%) it would
       | still generate hundreds of megawatts of heat at those power
       | outputs. I suppose you could cool with propellant, but that would
       | greatly reduce your specific impulse. To jet around the solar
       | system like that would require very high specific impulse,
       | meaning tiny amounts of propellant emitted at relativistic
       | velocities.
       | 
       | Speaking of propellant velocity: those Expanse fusion rockets
       | would not look like blowtorches. They'd look a bit more like the
       | "laser beams" depicted here -- rocket plumes that look like
       | straight lines because they're made of particles accelerated to
       | like 3-5% 'c': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8vh2ER3ao4
       | 
       | Edit: ... and one more big inaccuracy: a torch rocket is also a
       | death ray that would be horrifically effective even at very long
       | range. The scenes where "they're trying to burn us up with their
       | drive plume" would have to take place at much longer range or
       | they'd just be dead. If you were near a ship all you'd have to do
       | is flip around to hose your enemy down with X-rays and
       | superheated plasma. You'd also _never_ fire up one of those
       | things anywhere remotely near a space station like Tycho unless
       | you wanted to at least give everyone on board cancer. You 'd have
       | to use conventional rockets to get well clear before turning on
       | the fusion drive.
       | 
       | No space opera I've seen gets this right. Any sufficiently
       | powerful space drive (fusion/antimatter torch, let alone warp
       | drives) is a weapon of mass destruction. Does Star Trek ever even
       | examine what happens if you point the Enterprise at a planet and
       | say "warp 9, engage!"? In The Expanse if the belters wanted to
       | stick to Earth and Mars they could do simpler things than
       | throwing stealth rocks if you really think about it. Those drives
       | would be insanely deadly in many different ways.
       | 
       | It's one of the reasons I think war in space is gonna be rare. If
       | it happens it's basically mutually assured destruction (MAD)
       | given the power involved. Even a chemical rocket can generate
       | velocities that make an impact have a yield comparable to a small
       | nuclear device.
       | 
       | For All Mankind is _almost_ space opera and is probably the most
       | realistic.
        
         | thrtythreeforty wrote:
         | _A Deepness in the Sky_ alludes to this, if I recall -
         | something about it being bad for your health to be around a
         | starship 's torch, but I forget the details, and anyway it's
         | never a plot point, just world building.
        
         | chuckadams wrote:
         | The color text in Mass Effect goes a bit into the heat sink
         | issue, in that the stealth systems on the Normandy couldn't
         | remain active indefinitely, since it would cook the occupants.
         | Never comes up in game since flying the ship isn't really a
         | mechanic, it's just a cutscene. Would have been neat to have a
         | scene where everyone is slowly baking while hiding from the
         | Reapers. Probably even got written and didn't make the cut.
        
         | andrewflnr wrote:
         | I'm working on a story that gets... closer! At least, using
         | star drives as weapons and the general MAD dynamics that
         | produces are relevant to the plot. Also pervasive use of self-
         | replicating bots as tools. No mention of radiators, though.
         | They could be there in the background, I guess.
        
         | IAmBroom wrote:
         | More generic space-opera problems:
         | 
         | Flying through an asteroid field looks a lot like flying
         | through empty space. They aren't that close together, or they
         | would pulverize each other into dust (and also coallesce into
         | planetoids).
         | 
         | Entering the solar system of Sol doesn't involve close flyby's
         | of any planets. Realistically, until you got close only Jupiter
         | would even be visible on your video screens (everything else
         | would look like stars - dots of light).
         | 
         | Laser _anything_ doesn 't involve bolts that flash; for that
         | matter, laser light isn't really visible from anywhere but the
         | path (unless you have smoke machines filling your universe).
         | One ship shows a glimmer at the exit port (mostly from excess
         | heat); the other shows a glowing meltdown point L/c seconds
         | later. Very unimpressive to observers.
        
         | yencabulator wrote:
         | Larry Niven's books have lots of mentions of drive torches
         | being "accidental weapons" that those in the in the know know
         | to be such.
         | 
         | https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WeaponizedExhaus...
        
       | pmags wrote:
       | LaB was my PhD advisor! A thoughtful, creative, and curious
       | scientist and a teacher extraordinaire.
       | 
       | For a slightly longer form take from Mike on B-movie monsters
       | see:
       | 
       | LaBarbera, M. 2013. It's Alive! The Science of B-Movie Monsters.
       | Univ of Chicago Press.
       | https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/I/bo178413...
       | 
       | For more about Mike and his impact on the biological sciences at
       | the Univ of Chicago see: https://mag.uchicago.edu/science-
       | medicine/life-aquatic
        
       | damnitbuilds wrote:
       | I always thought that the Hulk running fast and landing too
       | gently makes him appear too light:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzceykTiwjs
        
         | ViktorRay wrote:
         | The camera does shake when he lands to give the impression of a
         | hard landing.
         | 
         | He probably should have also had a crater or something show up
         | on the road when landing. Maybe that was a limitation of the
         | CGI of the time though. If so maybe the camera shaking was a
         | way to deal with that CGI limitation in order to make the Hulk
         | seem like he had weight.
        
         | alabastervlog wrote:
         | You can see similar issues in the recent American Godzilla
         | movies. In the first one, Godzilla seems huge and heavy. In the
         | later ones, they keep making it faster and more agile and the
         | result is that it seems light and small (and extremely fake) no
         | matter how many buildings fall over or ships get sunk.
        
         | voidUpdate wrote:
         | I often think this when there's meant to be a big heavy thing
         | moving around. I think it's one of my problems with Pacific Rim
         | 2 vs the first film. In the first film, the robots were slow
         | and heavy, in the second they were nimble and didn't have any
         | of the weight behind them
        
           | 0cf8612b2e1e wrote:
           | The new director started somewhere how he did not like how
           | big and bulky the original robots were. Which was the entire
           | point of the movie! They are beefy tanks. It felt as real as
           | you could imagine building sized robots to be.
        
       | medymed wrote:
       | Zombie physiology also seems a stretch---how do organisms with so
       | many open and often bleeding dirt-covered wounds maintain
       | hemodynamic stability in the face of inevitable septic shock
       | and/or blood loss? A movie where a virus just makes infected
       | people seem normal and very friendly but want to furtively bite
       | other people to spread disease and then have delayed onset
       | terminal sickness, like a subtle version of rabies, would be
       | terrifying and more plausible.
        
         | jhbadger wrote:
         | The "original" (in the non-Vodoo sense) zombies shown in George
         | Romero's "living dead" movies made no claims that the undead
         | were scientifically explainable -- it was later movies like 28
         | Days Later that tried to rationalize them as infected, living
         | people, to their detriment, I think.
        
         | gwd wrote:
         | In "World War Z" (the book), the scientific "questions"
         | regarding how the zombies work are brought up but not answered.
         | For instance, in the book, the zombies freeze solid in winter
         | and when spring comes thaw and just start going again. The fact
         | that ice crystals normally rupture cell membranes is brought up
         | as a question of how this is possible; but no attempt is made
         | to answer the question, because that's not the point of the
         | book.
        
           | cainxinth wrote:
           | Wood frogs can survive freezing solid. Their liver produces
           | glucose to flood all cells, prevent cell freezing, and
           | protect against dehydration. Ice forms around cells and
           | organs but not inside them, preventing lethal damage.
           | 
           | https://www.nps.gov/gaar/learn/nature/wood-frog-page-2.htm
        
         | IAmBroom wrote:
         | In Demon, the third in John Varley's Gaia trilogy of sci fi
         | books, the (alien-manufactured) "zombies" were animated by
         | colonies of worms that fed on the soft tissues of the corpse,
         | and simply replaced the actions of the lifeless muscles. They
         | thus had very human outlines, and if anything, far more
         | horrifying looks than half-rotted corpses.
         | 
         | They also didn't last very long; they were meant as disposable
         | remote-controlled troops.
        
         | hnlosers wrote:
         | It is a metaphor for disease. Engineers will waste ungodly
         | amount of time on the logic, while making yourself come off
         | very uncultured and "stupid" for not understanding
         | storytelling. I guess that is expected when half of you aren't
         | even from the country you are working in and lack culture.
        
           | sharkjacobs wrote:
           | lmao damn get his ass
           | 
           | You're not wrong per se, but you are in comments of an
           | article about applying rigorous scientific analysis of
           | "B-Move Monsters" in exactly the way that you're criticizing?
           | This is kind of the most appropriate place for someone to
           | bring up this kind of thing, maybe go back to the comment
           | section of a cinema sins video if you want to dunk on nerds
           | for being too nerdy about art
        
       | bediger4000 wrote:
       | I worked as a stress analyst in aerospace for a while. Lots of
       | good insights here about buckling of thin walled structures, with
       | respect to arthropods and how to attack giant arthropods.
        
       | wrp wrote:
       | I highly recommend the books by Mark Glassy, _The Biology of
       | Science Fiction Cinema_ and _Biology Run Amok!: The Life Science
       | Lessons of Science Fiction Cinema_.
        
       | hydrogen7800 wrote:
       | The first section about "The Incredible Shrinking Man" reminded
       | me of "Life At Low Reynolds Number", with the concept of
       | "scaling".
       | 
       | >It helps to imagine under what conditions a man would be
       | swimming at, say, the same Reynolds number as his own sperm.
       | Well, you put him in a swimming pool that is full of molasses,
       | and then you forbid him to move any part of his body faster than
       | 1 cm/min. Now imagine yourself in that condition: you're under
       | the swimming pool in molasses, and now you can only move like the
       | hands of a clock. If under these ground rules you are able to
       | move a few meters in a couple of weeks, you may qualify as a low
       | Reynolds number swimmer.[0]
       | 
       | [0]https://cooperlab.wustl.edu/PracticalAdvice/Purcell%201977.p..
       | .
        
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