[HN Gopher] Are Levi's from Amazon different from Levi's from Le...
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Are Levi's from Amazon different from Levi's from Levi's?
Author : randycupertino
Score : 127 points
Date : 2025-03-28 12:18 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (nymag.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (nymag.com)
| randycupertino wrote:
| Archive link: https://archive.ph/R9T6i
|
| I doubt the jeans the author is buying from Amazon are genuine
| product, maybe just really good knockoffs.
| felixgallo wrote:
| did you try reading the article?
| nothercastle wrote:
| It dose not prove or disprove that assertion.
| adolph wrote:
| What makes Levi's "genuine" given the diversity within Levis'
| supply chain quoted from the article below? Is a cane sugar
| Coke from Mexico a "genuine" Coke when it is imported to the
| US, where it is made with corn syrup? [0]
| Levi's sources its fabric from dozens of mills across the
| world, from luxury supplier Candiani in Italy to sites
| in India, Bangladesh, Mexico, and Turkey. The six pairs
| I tested were manufactured in three places: Cambodia, Macau,
| and Mexico. The company's supply chain is vast, and to some
| extent, it makes sense that jeans made to the same
| specifications from different mills, dye facilities, and
| factories would result in different products.
|
| 0. https://www.seriouseats.com/coke-vs-mexican-coke
| gnopgnip wrote:
| Mexican coke made for the US market is made with cane sugar,
| not corn syrup.
|
| Sucrose in cane sugar decomposes to glucose and fructose via
| hydrolysis. With an acidic bottle of coke, a week after
| bottling nearly all of it is converted. The ratio of glucose
| and fructose is 50/50 from sucrose, with high fructose corn
| syrup it's a 55/42 ratio.
| adolph wrote:
| Yes, acknowledging the difference in composition between
| countries of a product named the same was my intended
| question. Not certain how to format the question:
| Assert different and equally genuine: a Coke
| cane sugar from Mexico a Coke
| corn syrup from US
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| i have had issues with clothing I think is inferior quality and
| likely counterfeit from amazon -- including when buying from what
| looks like "official" brand stores on Amazon. One example is Gold
| Toe socks.
|
| I have wondered if even when buying from what looks like an
| official amazon brand store, you can still get product from
| multiple suppliers/locations, including some that have
| counterfeits? Anyone know if this is feasible?
|
| It doesn't seem likely to me that (eg) Levi's or Gold Toe are
| doing this on purpose. It would also mean it would be hard to
| 'test' because you might get different things on different
| orders, it's not that the entire amazon supply is counterfeit,
| but that counterfeit stuff is in there somehow.
| doix wrote:
| > I have wondered if even when buying from what looks like an
| official amazon brand store, you can still get product from
| multiple suppliers/locations, including some that have
| counterfeits? Anyone know if this is feasible?
|
| Yes, it's called inventory commingling, there are plenty
| explanations online. The TL;DR is that if two sellers claim to
| have the same item, amazon will ship the item from the closest
| warehouse rather than from the seller you bought from.
| jrochkind1 wrote:
| Even when I'm ordering from what looks like an official brand
| store? eg https://www.amazon.com/stores/GOLDTOE/page/9736A557
| -DAD9-4EB...
|
| Yeah, I guess that doesn't mean anything but marketing, it
| still all comes from the same place.
|
| The OP article doesn't discuss this, but it seems to me a
| likely explanation for someone getting crap levi's ordered on
| amazon?
| flotzam wrote:
| AFAIK for items shipped by Amazon the only way to rule out
| commingling is after delivery: If the barcode starts with
| an X that's an FNSKU (specific to a seller), meaning the
| item did not come from commingled stock. Items _sold_ by
| Amazon itself never start with an X, so...
| malfist wrote:
| To be fulfilled by Amazon it has to go to Amazon's warehouse
| where they don't differentiate sellers. If seller A sends in
| "widget Z" and seller B sends in counterfeit "widget Z",
| Amazon puts them both in a box for widget Z and pulls from it
| randomly.
| tedivm wrote:
| I've made two big purchases from Amazon in the last year and
| had to return both because the supposedly new item was
| obviously a return (one had missing pieces, the other had
| visible damage). It really is at the point where you can't
| trust Amazon to ship you what you actually purchased due to how
| they manage inventory.
| alabastervlog wrote:
| The _only_ pair of Darn Tough socks I 've had trouble with, I
| bought on Amazon. I'd bought others on there, and they were
| fine, but these looked and felt odd and developed holes in
| strange places after like five wears. That'd have been poor
| performance for a $2 pair of cotton socks, let alone a $20ish
| pair of supposedly tough-wearing socks. Normally, Darn Tough
| wear well for so long that the high prices aren't actually high
| on a per-wear basis, but these? Yeah, I stopped buying stuff on
| Amazon in general after that (I still buy Darn Tough, but
| straight from their site)
| hayst4ck wrote:
| I don't know if Levis are, but I have absolutely ordered other
| branded items that are different on amazon compared to in a
| store, including entirely different and lower quality fabric on
| amazon.
|
| It's not at all surprising for anything to happen after co-
| mingled inventory, which should absolutely be illegal.
|
| Walmart created a business practice where many black Friday deals
| were lower quality products produced explicitly for black Friday
| sales. So underhanded deceptive business practice in large
| retailers isn't anything new.
|
| Without a regulatory authority we can expect companies to act in
| decreasingly bad faith, because who will provide consequences,
| the other definitely not colluding competitor?
| bena wrote:
| It's not limited to Black Friday items.
|
| A lot of companies have general WalMart versions of products.
| derekp7 wrote:
| For one good example, look at the Soundcore Boom 2 "SE" --
| the "SE" is specific to Walmart, and has some features cut.
|
| Back to denim, Walmart caries "Levi's Signature" -- those are
| lower cost (and lower quality) versions of the normal lines.
| kasey_junk wrote:
| They have to because Walmart drives them so hard on price.
| diyftw wrote:
| And fickle consumers drive Walmart. The blame for the race-
| to-the-bottom doesn't rest solely on corporations.
| DrillShopper wrote:
| I don't know that I would call them fickle. Real wage
| growth hasn't happened (effectively) in at least 40
| years. Of course people are going to be sensitive to
| price increases especially if the price increases faster
| than people's wages increase.
| hayst4ck wrote:
| They have to because Walmart has a monopoo-like position.
| They are so big they are easily able to coerce those they
| interact with.
|
| Walmart has a $180bln revenue, how many states or even
| countries is that comparable to?
| sixothree wrote:
| I ordered the same model of Gilette razor that I get from
| Target and the ones from Amazon didn't last nearly as long.
| Either they were counterfeit or sort of binning was done by
| Gilette. But the ones from Amazon lasted very literally half as
| long.
| jghn wrote:
| You have to assume that anything you buy on amazon that is
| shipped from one of their warehouses is counterfeit,
| regardless of any effort you put in to avoid it. That doesn't
| stop me from buying things there, but it does stop me from
| buying certain things from there.
| jghn wrote:
| > including entirely different and lower quality fabric on
| amazon
|
| This could easily be counterfeiting via SKU mingling
| hayst4ck wrote:
| Different factories in different countries on the tags which
| seems like a reasonable explanation.
| joezydeco wrote:
| If you comb LinkedIn and Levi's job website, there are distinct
| positions just to work with Amazon and other department stores
| like Kohl's.
| bena wrote:
| This is WalMart all over again.
|
| Since WalMart has so much leverage in negotiations, they get to
| essentially name their price for goods.
|
| Which causes manufacturers to make special WalMart versions of
| their items.
| phendrenad2 wrote:
| I've noticed that "outlet stores" (stores with names like "<Brand
| X> Outlet" that you can find at outlet malls, such as the San
| Francisco Premium Outlets) sometimes sell SKUs that aren't sold
| by the company normally. Likewise, on Black Friday, you might
| find inventory in stores that isn't there normally. If an item
| isn't normally in stock, it's retail price is only hypothetical,
| and they can get away with saying that it's "60% off" or
| whatever.
| sethhochberg wrote:
| Once upon a time, outlet stores generally were all end-of-
| season, B-stock, etc... but fickle consumers didn't like that
| it was possible to go to an outlet store and not find anything
| to buy, so the brands started making cheaper "outlet" lines to
| fill the shelves.
|
| Stuff like this, or the JC Penny experiment years ago where the
| new executive team tried to get rid of deep discount sales and
| have consistently low prices only to be met with consumer
| uproar, make me really glad that I don't work anywhere near
| consumer retail.
| taeric wrote:
| I remember being very confused on this when going to an
| outlet store after college. They were basically rebranded
| malls, at that point. Not at all what I was expecting from
| high school days going to outlets.
| jerlam wrote:
| The outlet stores often have small text on price tags saying
| that the items may never have been sold at their "original"
| price. It's a convoluted way of saying that the sale
| discounts are imaginary.
|
| From Nordstrom Rack's web site:
|
| _This comparable value and corresponding percentage are
| based on what the item, or similar item, was originally
| offered for by Nordstrom or elsewhere in the market, which
| may have been reported to us by the manufacturer._
| soared wrote:
| Coach Outlet's revenue is something like 10x the revenue of
| Coach proper. In some cases, the outlet is the primary brand,
| or sometimes just an entirely separate brand.
| mywittyname wrote:
| I believe it. My wife shops at Coach and their outlet stores
| are much better than their main stores. The store footprint
| is at least double, which means they also carry more product.
| The outlet has more men's products as well. Plus the staff is
| generally more grounded.
|
| I had a purse of hers sent back for reconditioning and the
| regular store didn't seem to notice that it was originally an
| outlet product (granted, it was like 8 years old at that
| point).
|
| Granted, not every retailer is like that. GAP brands
| definitely sell inferior products at their outlet stores. But
| I don't notice a difference in quality for Levi's stuff at
| their outlet stores vs department stores.
|
| I think outlet malls are generally seen by consumers as
| "malls that focus largely on clothing". The only regular
| malls that have survived in my area are maybe 30% clothing,
| with the rest being the huge Apple store, restaurants, cafes,
| jewelry, car showrooms (?), LEGO, overpriced home goods, etc.
| While the outlet mall remains like 80% clothing.
| timdellinger wrote:
| Oh, indeed - for instance, the "Brooks Brothers 346" product
| line is manufactured specifically and exclusively for the
| outlet stores.
| iamben wrote:
| (Denim head) Anecdata - buying Levis from Amazon (or any other
| store), pick up at least a couple of pairs in the same size. It's
| likely different people/factories making them, but often you'll
| find variation in size/denim even when the labelling in the same.
| One pair of 32/32 might feel 'off' and the next is the best pair
| you've ever owned. Completely agree with going 'smaller' brand if
| you want consistency though (and that's a whole different world).
|
| But better tip - (if you're not looking for 'smart' denim) buy
| from eBay. Only buy pairs where everything has been measured
| properly (waist, inside leg, rise, etc) so you can get close to
| what you know you fits. You can find 20+ year old Levis for less
| than $20 - the denim is heavier, the quality is _good_ and they
| have that perfect 'broken in' feel that makes the jeans feel
| like your best friend. Plus you can afford to try a few pairs to
| find ones you love.
| hydrogen7800 wrote:
| I had the same experience when buying from Macy's, which I felt
| would avoid any possible shennanigans from Amazon. Same story.
| 4 pair of the same style and size, but different colors. All
| fit differently.
| do_not_redeem wrote:
| Physical products are HARD. Programmers take for granted our
| digital assembly line, where it's possible to generate
| millions of byte-identical products with ease. As a software
| "engineer" I do not envy real engineers one bit.
| ViktorRay wrote:
| Wait but then why is one physical iPhone identical to
| another physical iPhone of the same model?
|
| I'm not asking to criticize. I'm genuinely curious.
|
| Not even all electronic products always feel the same in
| one's hands like iPhones of the same model do. For example
| I remember back in the day my Xbox controllers would feel
| different from my friend's Xbox controllers even though
| they were the same model and supposedly manufactured the
| same.
| kaibee wrote:
| Well, partially its that for all of Apple's faults, this
| is one thing that they're neurotic about. But the xbox
| controller comparison isn't really good because
| controllers have moving parts. An iPhone, except for the
| side-buttons, doesn't.
| acuozzo wrote:
| > why is one physical iPhone identical to another
| physical iPhone
|
| Apple is willing to pay the cost to minimize the margin-
| of-error at every step.
|
| Another approach to keeping yield high (at the possible
| risk of hurting your brand) is to do what Intel did with
| their Celeron line. The equivalent for Apple would be a
| "value iPhone" which would not come with the same set of
| expectations from customers.
| jen20 wrote:
| It's worth noting Apple (likely) do this with the SOCs -
| the bucketed variants with fewer operational GPU cores
| are the output. They just don't do it with the packaging.
| thesuitonym wrote:
| It's much easier to get molded plastic into the same
| shape repeatedly, than it is to get fabric stitched
| together exactly the same way every time.
|
| As for the Xbox controllers, it could be a lot of
| differences. Microsoft does not feel the need to keep
| different runs exactly the same. They may be more willing
| to buy different types of plastic depending on what's
| cheapest this quarter.
|
| Or it could be much simpler, maybe iPhones do feel
| different. How much time do you actually spend
| interacting with someone else's phone (Have you ever even
| actually touched another person's phone, or just their
| case?), vs how much time did you spend with your buddy's
| Xbox controllers?
| snozolli wrote:
| _why is one physical iPhone identical to another physical
| iPhone of the same model?_
|
| It probably wouldn't be if human beings had to drill
| holes in the PCB by hand, place and solder components by
| hand, and hand-machine the case.
|
| _different from my friend's Xbox controllers even though
| they were the same model and supposedly manufactured the
| same._
|
| This could be things like slight changes in the sourcing
| of, say, springs for an analog stick, composition of
| rubber used under other buttons, and actual wear on
| components of the assembly line, like the molds used for
| injection molding of something with a pebble texture. Not
| to mention, obviously, that each controller will break
| down differently over time depending on use.
| dismalaf wrote:
| > Wait but then why is one physical iPhone identical to
| another physical iPhone of the same model?
|
| Hard materials are easier than soft materials in some
| ways. If you lay a soft fabric out before cutting, is it
| slightly folded, perfectly flat, taut? It will all make a
| difference.
|
| Moulding plastic or cutting a hard material like
| aluminium is more amenable to tight tolerances since you
| can use the same mould over and over, use the same cutter
| and the material doesn't flex, stretch or change in any
| significant way.
| smith7018 wrote:
| Clothing is handmade. It doesn't matter if it's luxury or
| from Shein; it's all handmade. Artisans can work
| tirelessly to make sure everything is stitched the exact
| same way but anything below that is made for the mass
| market. Those tend to be people paid nothing to work as
| fast as possible to make as many items as possible. In
| that environment, you're going to get a lot of
| inconsistency. The only tech that helps here is the
| sewing machine and using lasers to cut the pieces.
| Compare that to iPhones where there are a lot of
| industrial machines that are used to create each of the
| pieces paired with highly trained individuals helping
| assemble it. The iPhone is also a "luxury" good so they
| have a lot of QC whereas a shirt from Old Navy is cheap
| and as long as it "looks" correct then they'll sell it
| for $8.
| lolinder wrote:
| > As a software "engineer" I do not envy real engineers one
| bit.
|
| Obligatory link to Hillel Wayne's Crossover Project [0].
| The short version is that of 17 "real" engineers he
| interviewed who switched to software engineering, 15 said
| they consider software engineering to be an engineering
| discipline. Over the three blog posts he reviews the
| supposed differences between fields and finds that the
| crossovers don't agree with most of the stereotypical
| differences software people believe are there.
|
| There are real differences that they identify, but they're
| not any more significant than the differences between
| traditional engineering fields, which are vast. But yes,
| one of the differences that they do point out is that
| software is not constrained by the physical world in any
| meaningful way.
|
| [0] https://www.hillelwayne.com/tags/crossover-project/
| rurp wrote:
| I know a few civil engineers and have been surprised at
| how many similarities that work has to software
| engineering. Some of the poor practices that people gripe
| about in tech are similar in that world, and the same
| goes for many good practices.
| do_not_redeem wrote:
| Fascinating, thanks for posting that, I know what I'm
| reading this weekend!
| BobaFloutist wrote:
| I mean that seems like a methodology that would run a
| heavy risk of sampling bias. This is literally people who
| have chosen to switch _to_ software engineering, and who
| are currently software engineers.
| lolinder wrote:
| The only way to make the sample better would be to also
| sample people who moved the other direction, but there
| haven't been nearly as many of those because software
| engineering jobs have been in much higher demand than
| other engineering positions.
|
| What you certainly cannot do is sample people who have
| only experienced one field.
|
| But yes, it's not meant to be a quantitative study, but
| there are a lot of very valuable insights in the blog
| posts.
| mywittyname wrote:
| You have to consider, most engineering disciplines learn
| how to program, but almost no one in a software
| engineering program learns how to design stuff.
|
| And the jump from building academic programs in C/Matlab
| to building commercial software products is much smaller
| than the jump from having never used Fusion 360 to
| designing a commercial product.
|
| Plus, there are many more resources out there for
| switching careers into software engineering. With CAD,
| you're kind of stuck with YouTube videos and the odd
| online course for foundational material.
| jerf wrote:
| As I like to say, if the construction world could tweak a
| $CEILING_HEIGHT parameter and hit the big "REBUILD HOTEL"
| button, and the entire hotel would systematically tear
| itself down and rebuild itself from scratch in about 5
| minutes for a net cost of $5, and then run a large set of
| automated checks for code compliance, making sure the
| doors don't conflict with each other, etc. in the next
| five minutes, and spit out a report of all the results,
| you'd expect them to operate differently. _VERY_
| differently.
|
| Coding is 100% an engineering endeavor. And just like any
| other one, a particular project may not be following
| engineering best practices and that project may be
| producing some dangerous garbage as a result, but I'm
| actually fairly satisfied with my engineering practices,
| _as_ engineering practices, what with my automated
| testing, automated acceptance criteria, automated
| security checking, automated style checking, integrated
| peer-review practices, performance testing practices,
| engineering for redundancy and resiliance. If $YOU 're
| thinking the coding world is awfully cowboy maybe that's
| a sign that $YOU need to up your game with the already-
| existing and well-documented best practices in our
| industry. To be honest most other "real engineers" would
| be _green with envy_ at what we have available to us!
| mjevans wrote:
| There are meaningful ways in which software interacts
| with the physical world.
|
| Latency is the first to come to mind. The realities of
| how systems are designed and how permanent the storage in
| question is translate to latency and thus frequently
| performance bottlenecks.
|
| Data durability is another thing to consider. Though
| frequently that's mostly abstracted away in the lower
| layers of hardware, system composition, and operating
| system / file system / libraries generally.
|
| Limitations also exist in raw hardware performance (state
| machine speed, how parallel the computation can be, how
| parallel the desired process can be made) and capacity,
| for processing, temporary memory (RAM), and long term
| storage. Thermal considerations might also be a factor,
| but those are usually managed by lower layers and present
| as capacity limitations to typical software.
|
| Software as a domain for achieving goals does offer an
| unusually wide degree of flexibility in approach. Today
| we also stand on the shoulders of many giants, with
| relatively easy access to extremely powerful systems that
| can obscure many sins for 'reasonable' workloads.
| __MatrixMan__ wrote:
| I envy real engineers. There's something quite satisfying
| about being able to touch a thing you made.
| j45 wrote:
| Software engineers can engineer ways to engineer more than
| certified engineers apply existing ways of engineering.
| aleksiy123 wrote:
| Feels like there's similarity to CPU and GPU binning.
|
| Make a bunch of them with the same process then bin them
| based on the variability.
| wyclif wrote:
| What are some good, high-quality alternatives for someone who
| is a fan of the original Levi's 501 (button fly) jeans?
| dublinben wrote:
| The Unbranded UB301 is probably a good place to start.
| captnasia wrote:
| Uniqlo's selvedge jeans I've found are pretty good, although
| not button fly.
| ziml77 wrote:
| Last time I bought jeans I accidentally got the 501s because
| I didn't realize they were button fly. I thought I was going
| to return them but I ended up giving them a shot and now I
| love them. They're way less trouble to do up than I was
| expecting. (And because you work from the bottom up, I've
| never forgotten to close my fly... something that I managed
| far too often with zip flys)
| iamben wrote:
| Sure, start with 501s in Levi's LVC line. You'll get better
| quality, selvedge denim and they'll be based on 501s from
| different eras (so slimmer legs, wider hem, etc etc). If
| you're lucky you can find some with Japanese or Cone Mills
| (USA) denim. LVC are often in the sale, shop around.
|
| Then look at the Japanese brands. Most of them are
| reproducing 501s from various eras. FWIW, I like TCB
| (https://tcbjeans.myshopify.com/) - the price/value ratio is
| superb, the quality is better than LVC and retail is cheaper.
| Their 40s and 50s jeans are both brilliant and they age
| amazingly.
|
| Hope that helps!
| jghn wrote:
| > One pair of 32/32 might feel 'off' and the next is the best
| pair you've ever owned
|
| My understanding is that this isn't tied to Amazon or any
| specific retailer. But rather the cutting process for the
| fabric. They'll cut large stacks of denim cloth in a single go,
| and that's not an exact process. And that's why you can buy
| multiple supposedly identical pairs and notice differences.
| barbazoo wrote:
| > buying Levis from Amazon (or any other store), pick up at
| least a couple of pairs in the same size.
|
| At least for Amazon, keep in mind that they're likely not put
| back into normal circulation if you return them so you're
| creating waste where there doesn't have to be.
| rurp wrote:
| I'm skeptical of this. Used sales are a thing, plus I've
| gotten "new" products that had definitely been previously
| opened. Throwing away returned products seems to go against
| the ethos of squeezing every drop of profit out of things.
| barbazoo wrote:
| You're right it will make its way to to a consumer one way
| or another, even if it's the raw materials. It's still a
| lot of "waste" I think.
| crazygringo wrote:
| This is not true. You can even see in tons of product
| listings where you can buy from "Amazon Resale". The prices
| are cheaper because they were returned from customers and are
| missing packaging, tags, etc.
|
| Amazon absolutely resells returned items when possible. And
| if it's not through Amazon Resale, it's by reselling them in
| bulk lots to people who then make money listing the items on
| eBay.
|
| Yes some of the absolute cheapest stuff gets tossed because
| it's not profitable to resell. But in many cases you're not
| even asked to return -- just keep it and get refunded. (As
| long as you don't have a history of abusing that.)
|
| Levi's are absolutely going to be resold. Amazon is a
| business. They're not going to eat a loss when they don't
| have to.
| dismalaf wrote:
| > One pair of 32/32 might feel 'off' and the next is the best
| pair you've ever owned.
|
| Honestly, even in the store, that's been a thing forever. You'd
| have to go to the department or mall store and try on a whole
| bunch.
|
| Lately I've switched to a brand that has stretchier fabric (so
| small variations in size matter less) and more long-leg sizes
| (my size is 31 or 32/34 and difficult to find in department
| stores) and been content.
| eweise wrote:
| weird thing is every pair of 32/32 I try are too tight and too
| short.
| mike503 wrote:
| Same experience ordering Lucky brand jeans... from Lucky
| themselves! Same exact model would result in different material
| composition / origin country. It could be 0-2% spandex/100-98%
| cotton or something. I wound up making a little spreadsheet to
| try to figure out which ones I liked the best (origin country,
| materials)
|
| It's crazy.
| matwood wrote:
| It's not really the style anymore (and they were wildly
| expensive), but some of the best jeans I've had were True
| Religions. I could go to the store, try on a ton of pairs,
| and then get the length tailored. I used to power lift, and
| at the time, finding jeans that had 32" waist while still
| being bigger in the butt/thighs was a huge challenge. Only TR
| seemed to have them.
| iwontberude wrote:
| Same here, especially for taller sizes they were great.
| silisili wrote:
| Ha, glad to know I'm not not alone doing that re: country of
| origin.
|
| I only wear Oxfords and casual button down shirts, and found
| that I only ever like the ones made in Bangladesh because of
| fit and material. I could talk your ear off for 20 minutes
| about how clothes from X feel cheap, clothes from Y have nice
| materials but don't fit right, etc.
|
| I just checked my closet, and every single shirt I regularly
| wear across three brands is made in Bangladesh!
| alangibson wrote:
| Supply chains matter. There may be a good mill in whatever
| the textile producing region of Bangladesh is that is the
| preferred supplier for those making that style of shirt.
| sphars wrote:
| I wear button downs nearly every day. What brands or stores
| do you buy from?
| silisili wrote:
| Well, I'm relegated to tall sizes so my options are
| probably a bit more limited.
|
| The brands I typically wear are Izod, RL Chaps, US
| Polo(not RL Polo), and lately some from Kingsize. The
| latter fit nicely but I find a lot of styles a bit wonky
| or dated.
| kstrauser wrote:
| I'm still a fan of J. Crew. They fit me very well.
| vik0 wrote:
| I will never buy, let alone wear clothes previously worn by
| another person that I don't know (but even then I likely
| wouldn't)
|
| I am talking about in normal, everyday (for me) circumstances,
| this would likely not apply in dire circumstances
| harimau777 wrote:
| For what it's worth: Wearing hand me down clothes has been
| the norm throughout most of modern human history. To the
| point that it's been a major influence on fashion. For
| example, a lot of the ribbons and trim on Victorian clothing
| was a way to cover up where the clothing had been altered or
| repaired after being handed down (often from an employer to
| their servants).
|
| I don't say that to be critical if wearing previously worn
| clothing bothers you. I just bring it up because sometimes
| things stop bothering me once I realize that they are fairly
| common experiences.
| jonahhorowitz wrote:
| I worked at the Gap and Banana Republic all through high school
| and college. This was well known amongst the sales staff.
| There's a small amount of variation between each pair of jeans
| because of how they're cut and how the material stretches
| during cutting. Also just different people on different sewing
| machines makes a difference. We always advised customers to try
| on a few pairs of the size they were looking for to get one
| that fit best.
|
| Here's a quick shot of what the cutting machine looks like:
| https://youtu.be/oBt85Jgjvng?si=UAU0Jj4q_Vztmi5K&t=680
| harimau777 wrote:
| I'm surprised they even get as good of results as they do
| with those cutting methods. Aligning the direction of the
| threads (called the grainline) before cutting is extremely
| important. To the point that the approach they are taking
| almost seems like making a knowingly defective product.
| osigurdson wrote:
| I don't know about Levis, but I can attest that Ernie Ball guitar
| strings from Amazon are different / crappy. It is almost like
| Amazon is selling knock-offs or something.
| p_j_w wrote:
| It seems to me Amazon is now just Aliexpress with a better coat
| of paint.
| mook wrote:
| As far as I know AliExpress doesn't do commingling; so on
| AliExpress at least you get products from the correct seller.
|
| That is to say, Amazon under that coat of paint is probably
| worse.
| svelle wrote:
| What country are you in? Haven't seen this in Germany yet and
| I've probably bought close to over hundred packs of Ernie Ball
| strings in my life, both from Amazon and Thomann as well as
| local shops.
| xtracto wrote:
| People, read the article. The conclusion is not as "terrible" as
| what you may infer from the title (we all think the worst I
| guess).
|
| Basically, it says Levi's jeans are manufactured in several
| different countries, so that most likely accounts for the
| variations. And that some of the jeans she bought from Amazon
| were actually better than non-amazon.
|
| Still. I prefer buying from the Amazon competition in my country.
| Amazon regularly sends me wrong items.
| tiahura wrote:
| Agreed. I've got a Levi outlet nearby. I noticed some time ago
| the significant variation in batches.
| kstrauser wrote:
| Outlet clothes are often made specifically for outlets, and
| are generally lower quality. I wouldn't go to the Levi's
| outlet and hope to get the good stuff.
| ysavir wrote:
| > Still. I prefer buying from the Amazon competition in my
| country. Amazon regularly sends me wrong items.
|
| Out of curiosity, why is the preference for buying from "the
| Amazon competition" rather than directly from the manufacturer?
| vander_elst wrote:
| Not op, but operating the same way.
|
| The competition might be cheaper than the manufacturer.
| noisy_boy wrote:
| Not Amazon but I bought some Levi's trousers from their brand
| outlet in Woodbury Commons and the quality is so much better than
| the stuff I usually see outside US (not sure why/how because all
| of it probably gets made somewhere in Asia). Also, there are
| multiple lengths available for a given waist size so you retain
| the original hem stitching compared to the cut-and-stitch common
| in non-US locations.
| smrtinsert wrote:
| From what I understand this is a Levis thing. They supposedly use
| lots of different factories where the product has a surprisingly
| wide range. For example, one size from one factory will be
| noticeably bigger or smaller than other. Stretchiness seems to
| vary also as well as tightness.
|
| I had honestly thought this was my imagination of years of using
| them, but ran into more than one person shopping for jeans that
| randomly brought this up. I guess Levis super fans can spot each
| other.
| jonheller wrote:
| Like the majority of "Don't buy from Amazon" articles I've read,
| this one doesn't seem to make any mention (unless I missed it!)
| of if these Levis were shipped by _and_ sold by Amazon.
|
| There's no doubt Amazon has a problem with fake or imposter
| products. But every post I seem to read about this is people who
| unwittingly by from a marketplace seller.
|
| Of course Amazon should do better to regulate those marketplace
| sellers, but it seems similar to me to someone buying a Rolex
| from a street peddler in Times Square and being shocked it isn't
| the real thing.
| plorkyeran wrote:
| This isn't a "Don't buy from Amazon" article and the conclusion
| of the article is that while there's a difference it's quite
| plausible that they _aren 't_ fake.
| ziml77 wrote:
| I've heard that even shipped and sold by Amazon isn't a
| guarantee because of how they lump inventory together. I
| haven't run into the problem myself, but I still buy
| electronics from Best Buy or direct from the company rather
| than Amazon much of the time, just to avoid the chance of
| getting a fake from their comingled inventory.
| DeathArrow wrote:
| I've found that Wrangler and Lee have less quality variance and
| are of better quality when compared with similarly prices Levi's.
| adolph wrote:
| A classic story in life: In 1962, Avis was in
| search of a new advertising campaign. Since its
| inception, the car rental company had trailed behind the market
| leader, Hertz. So the ad agency Doyle Dane Bernbach
| decided to embrace Avis' second-place status as a sneaky
| way to tout the brand's customer service. "When you're
| only No. 2, you try harder," went the new tagline. "Or else."
|
| https://slate.com/business/2013/08/hertz-vs-avis-advertising...
| andrewl wrote:
| Does something similar happen with shoes, like at Zappos?
| megaman821 wrote:
| I actually order a bunch of Levi's to try on from Amazon last
| year. I wasn't expecting much out of Levi's since there denim has
| felt very thin at every physical store I have went to, but the
| sale price was good. Every pair I recieved had pretty good
| quality denim, like the denim they sold from 20 years ago. They
| all had pretty close fits to each other, so I kept all of them. I
| guess I will pay more attention to country of origin in the
| future.
| underseacables wrote:
| I noticed that in the early 00s, GAP would produce a product,
| then use cheaper materials and sell it through Old Navy, and use
| more expensive material the sell it through Banana Republic. Same
| style, different materials.
| jeffbee wrote:
| Wait until you hear about Ford, Mercury, and Lincoln. Or
| Chevrolet, Pontiac, and Cadillac.
| j45 wrote:
| Manufacturers can have different graders of products for full
| retail, different price point department stores (Nordstroms vs
| winners vs ..), amazon, Costco, etc.
|
| Imagine meeting price points, within a range of supplied
| products.
|
| I'm sure denim experts could expand on why some jeans still last
| and others wear out.
| neilv wrote:
| > _[...] one pair ordered from Amazon, one pair sent by Levi's
| for each style. [...] It seemed the tipster was half right. The
| tests confirmed a lot of variability between two pairs of the
| same jeans -- you could buy the same style from Amazon and Levi's
| and feel a difference. But it didn't add up to gaps in quality;
| there was no indication that the Levi's from Amazon were worse._
|
| All this time, researchers have been wasting money on sample
| sizes larger than 1 before drawing conclusions.
|
| Also, I find the word "commingling" nowhere in the article. It's
| very relevant to the question of what product you're receiving
| when you buy from Amazon.
| frankfrank13 wrote:
| Its journalism not research, this is absolutely the norm for
| any type of product coverage, e.g "my [press] car (with 50k in
| upgrades) had an incredible sound system, the cabin noise was
| non-existent, and the ($2000 extra) paint looks incredible).
| Even wirecutter does n=1 coverage, and it shows! You expect all
| LL Bean sheets to feel the same?! They probably ship a million
| sets a year.
|
| So yeah its annoying, but you get used to it.
| neilv wrote:
| Good point that reviews tend to be n=1. But reviewing a car
| is different than doing investigative journalism on a "tip"
| about jeans bought on Amazon, and dismissing it.
|
| I don't think anyone is alleging that BMW is cutting corners
| on materials shipped to only some dealers for a given market.
|
| Nor is anyone alleging that there's counterfeit Ferraris
| constantly being snuck onto dealer lots.
|
| What happened here looks closer to lowbrow propaganda or PR,
| than journalism.
|
| And I suspect that any kids reading pieces like this --
| rather than learning from good example -- are instead being
| confused about journalism, science, and critical thinking.
| calmbonsai wrote:
| It's still bad journalism. Given the inherent nature of
| variances in garment manufacturing, individual fitment, and
| item cost, they should've at least done a sample size of 3.
|
| Please also don't use The Wirecutter as an example of good
| journalism. It's the worst of a bad lot of Consumer Reports
| clones with all the disincentives of rapid-fire constant
| publication and ad-driven revenue. It was bad prior to the
| NYT acquisition, but it's "bottom of the barrel" atm.
|
| Much akin to CNBC for securities, it's now just a source of
| noise and, occasionally, even negative signal.
| Terretta wrote:
| There's a difference between writing in your journal and
| doing research.
|
| One of these is just "reporting the news". Even the
| magazine is not called "Consumer Research".
| tclancy wrote:
| FWIW and only anecdata, I have been using the same Buy It Again
| link for a pair of Levi's on Amazon for about a decade and they
| vary wildly from order to order.
| ethbr1 wrote:
| At the end of the day, most modern clothing isn't made in
| brand factories.
|
| It's subcontracted out to tons of shop, who then subcontract
| their orders out to even more shops.
|
| Unsurprising that given such a system product varies.
| kyleee wrote:
| Yes, and reducing the variation would increase costs. There
| are likely acceptability standards in play, but they are
| probably very lax standards.
| opan wrote:
| Do you wear them anyway, or return or tailor them or what?
| giraffe_lady wrote:
| They have been notorious for this for generations, to the
| point where it's sort of surprising to see it mentioned
| explicitly. Obvs this isn't a fashion forum and not
| _everyone_ knows, but probably most people who want a
| specific pair of levis does know.
| tantalor wrote:
| _A counterfeit jeans ring operating out of my car hole!_
|
| https://youtu.be/hT89K-6iJF4?t=60
| palmotea wrote:
| I don't know about Amazon, but years ago I read an article about
| Walmart that made the case that products sold there _from the
| same brand_ tend to be worse than those available elsewhere. Levi
| 's jeans were an example.
|
| For Walmart, they have scale _and_ a monomaniacal focus on lowest
| cost. Each time a contract with a vendor is renegotiated, Walmart
| demands a lower cost, and they 're big enough they get it. The
| predicable effect is the vendors skimp and cut costs on what they
| send to Walmart because they're under so much pressure, _and
| Walmart doesn 't care_ as long as they get a lower price. That
| can mean vendors doing stuff like binning by quality, and sending
| the worst stuff to Walmart; using a special grocery-store shrink
| ray for Walmart, special Walmart-specific cost-reduced designs;
| etc.
| FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
| Wrangler 13MWZ for the win... Mexican co-workers turned me on to
| them and I have never looked back. Heavy duty, well made, and a
| good value. Keep in mind they are cowboy cut, 14.5 oz., with no
| stretch.
| FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
| Also The Gap has good jeans that are decently priced (when on
| sale) if you are looking for something a bit more "upscale."
| gautamcgoel wrote:
| I just bought one of these... from Amazon. Now I'm wondering if
| I got the real thing or some cheap knockoff created
| specifically for Amazon. I paid only $30 for my jeans!
| jerlam wrote:
| If the knockoffs are good quality, does it matter if they're
| the real thing or not? They could be even better.
| joostdecock wrote:
| No matter how hard I try, I cannot make two pairs of jeans that
| are identical.
|
| Same pattern, same denim, same person making them (me), they
| don't fit/feel the same.
|
| Consistent results when using fabric is hard. Also keep in mind
| that good denim is practically sheet metal in comparison to most
| fabrics, so on one hand easier to get consistent results, but on
| the other hand, even small differences are more noticeable than
| something lighter or (god forbid) stretchy.
|
| You cannot just engineer your way out of some of the challenges
| inherit in garment construction (trust me, Ive tried).
| mrkramer wrote:
| Another example, imported food we get in the Eastern Europe is
| much worse than they get in the Western Europe.
| m463 wrote:
| Lots of companies DO make different skus for different retailers.
| I don't know if Levis is doing this with amazon.
|
| A friend of mine worked in construction and said paint from a
| retail store was thicker and better, compared to the "same paint"
| from home depot. I think it might be the same paint, with a
| special "home depot" sku for paint that is more watery or somehow
| made at lower cost.
|
| Here's an (archived) article talking about name brands and
| walmart:
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20050101092353/http://www.fastco...
|
| Personally, I have found amazon with name brands to be hit or
| miss. It seems you might get a name brand through an intermediary
| (like a retail store) when the name brand won't sell through
| amazon itself.
| klik99 wrote:
| The bigger question for me is if Levi's from outlet stores is
| worse quality - I've heard that originally outlets sold surplus,
| but when they realized it was a good business bringing lots of
| customers they started making inferior products specifically for
| the outlet market. Maybe it's not true, but I had 3 pairs fall
| apart and it's made me stop buying Levi's. I'm interested in ways
| brands can damage their reputation for short term gains, but
| never knew if this one is true or a rumor
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