[HN Gopher] How to Use Em Dashes (-), En Dashes (-), and Hyphens...
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       How to Use Em Dashes (-), En Dashes (-), and Hyphens (-)
        
       Author : Stratoscope
       Score  : 146 points
       Date   : 2025-03-27 20:19 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.merriam-webster.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.merriam-webster.com)
        
       | perihelions wrote:
       | Dupe--https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43447819 ( _" How to
       | use an en-dash and em-dash correctly?"_, 43 comments)
        
         | jimnotgym wrote:
         | More interestingly it is the same highly niche subject from two
         | different websites in two days. HN is...different
        
       | A_D_E_P_T wrote:
       | AFAIK most computer keyboards don't have em dashes. Rather than
       | hit ALT+0151 every time, I've always just strung along two
       | hyphens, like: --
       | 
       | Absolutely _proper and correct_ use of em dashes, en dashes, and
       | hyphens is, to me, the most obvious tell of the LLM writer. In
       | fact, I think that you can use it to date internet writing in
       | general. For it seems to me that real em dashes were uncommon
       | pre-2022.
        
         | n2d4 wrote:
         | Alt+hyphen or alt+shift+hyphen is an endash/emdash. You may not
         | have been aware of it because it's so subtle, but many people
         | (including myself) used emdashes long before 2022
         | 
         | (edit: apparently only on Mac, see reply below)
        
           | jml7c5 wrote:
           | I believe that's only on MacOS.
        
             | n2d4 wrote:
             | Seems like you're correct. Interesting!
        
             | dragonwriter wrote:
             | I think Microsoft Office (maybe jiat Word, but definitely
             | not Windows) has a similar default shortcut.
        
               | harrall wrote:
               | You don't need a shortcut on Word.
               | 
               | You just type two hyphens (--) and Word will convert it
               | to an em dash.
        
         | thesauri wrote:
         | On Macs:
         | 
         | Hyphen -: -
         | 
         | En Dash -: alt -
         | 
         | Em Dash --: alt shift -
        
           | alabastervlog wrote:
           | The default US English Mac keyboard is so extremely good, and
           | has been the way it is for so long, that I remain baffled
           | that other platforms haven't simply copied it. I came to it
           | relatively late in life and it's one of the reasons I wish
           | I'd started using Macs sooner.
        
             | agys wrote:
             | This specific key combination is not US keyboard specific.
             | I like how they managed to group characters that are
             | formally similar by binding them to the same keys.
             | 
             | Examples:
             | 
             | en and em are on -
             | 
             | Below are maybe Swiss specific?
             | 
             | ~ is on N
             | 
             | @ is on G
             | 
             | | and \ and / are on 7
             | 
             | [?] is on V
             | 
             | Y= is on Y and EUR is on E
             | 
             | [?] on W ( [?] is a rotated W :)
             | 
             | etc.
        
               | alabastervlog wrote:
               | Yeah, mostly the same on my US keyboard, except a couple
               | like "@" (that's shift-2 on basically all US keyboards,
               | and is printed on the key) and |/\, which are more
               | prominent on US keyboards (two simply have their own
               | keys, no shift modifier, even). I get the (c) symbol for
               | option+g (which still kind-of makes sense!)
               | 
               | I appreciate that the designer of the layout clearly
               | attempted to make some kind of mnemonic connection to the
               | degree they could. Makes it easier to discover and
               | remember the key-combos, even without a cheat sheet.
        
               | agys wrote:
               | Ah! (c) is on C (makes sense!)
        
               | Eric_WVGG wrote:
               | my favorite example of this is ellipsis ... opt-; (the
               | key with the colon over the semicolon is sort of a
               | rotated ellipsis)
               | 
               | thank you for teaching me [?]
        
               | jbverschoor wrote:
               | Except for international where EUR is opt-shift-2 (next
               | to the pound/hash), next the to dollar
               | 
               | modifiers:
               | 
               | opt-e+letter e (acute/aigu)
               | 
               | opt-`+letter e (grave)
               | 
               | opt-i+letter u (circumflex)
               | 
               | opt-u+letter u (umlaut)
               | 
               | opt-n+letter n (for the manana)
        
             | culi wrote:
             | It's pretty decent but the fact that I can't type an
             | arbitrary unicode character has been a huge annoyance of
             | mine since I switched from Windows/WSL to Mac.
             | 
             | They have shortcuts for I, I, and I but not for many
             | commonly used characters like arrows
        
               | minitech wrote:
               | Control+Command+Space or Fn+E or Edit > Emoji & Symbols
               | if you know the character's name. It's not very
               | convenient for repeated use, but it gets the job done in
               | a pinch.
        
         | wil421 wrote:
         | The engineers of various AIs are probably reading your comment
         | and making adjustments.
         | 
         | Or we are both just AIs, as a portion of HN comments are,
         | commenting back and forth about other AIs.
        
           | nextts wrote:
           | As are super pedantic humans.
        
         | salynchnew wrote:
         | Most obvious tell of the former/current Stripe employee, imho.
        
           | jsheard wrote:
           | What's the significance of Stripe here?
        
         | dadoum wrote:
         | I use a compose key on Linux to write those. By default you
         | should have these compositions available: --- - -- || --. - -
        
         | akshayshah wrote:
         | Em- and en-dashes have been well-supported by LaTeX, the
         | smartypants family of Markdown extensions, and plain HTML for
         | more than 20 years.
         | 
         | In your support, though, calling the extension "smartypants"
         | really hints at the target audience :)
        
         | PartiallyTyped wrote:
         | On mac it's very easy to get an em-dash, just alt+shift+`-`.
         | Though I do concur that it's more likely to come from an LLM, I
         | don't think it should be considered a tell -- I find it more of
         | a predictor of the writer's age.
        
         | grumbel wrote:
         | In Linux/Xorg with a compose/multi-key one can do:
         | 
         | <Multi_key> <minus> <minus> <period> : "-" U2013 # EN DASH
         | 
         | <Multi_key> <minus> <minus> <minus> : "--" U2014 # EM DASH
         | 
         | More in /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose
        
         | dml2135 wrote:
         | I used to intern for a literary magazine and I can confirm that
         | half my copy-editing was enforcing proper use of em-dashes.
         | This was well before 2022.
        
         | mkehrt wrote:
         | I always use an em dash when possible when I should, and double
         | en dash when I can't, just because I'm that kind of nerd. But
         | it is the case that a double en dash on iOS autocorrects to an
         | em dash, so I'm suspicious of the claim that em dashes are a
         | tell for LLM writing.
        
           | nextts wrote:
           | Most editors should auto changes a double dash into em dash.
           | I thing Google Docs does for example.
        
         | BalinKing wrote:
         | This test feels biased by the fact that, like others have said,
         | macOS provides keyboard shortcuts. For example, I'm only Gen Z
         | and yet have tried for many years to use the proper dash
         | characters in the right places, which is made much easier by
         | virtue of being on a Mac.
         | 
         | Of course, I guess it's entirely possible--even accounting for
         | OS--that this test remains statistically useful. It makes me
         | kinda sad that my (very much human-generated) writing fails the
         | Turing test....
        
           | MrJohz wrote:
           | The compose key, for those who use it, also makes it very
           | easy to do em/en dashes, and I use them quite regularly as a
           | result.
        
           | harrall wrote:
           | On iPhone, type two hyphens to make an em dash:
           | 
           | -- into --
           | 
           | If OP wrote their post on an iPhone, they would have
           | inadvertently appeared as an LLM by their own test.
        
             | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
             | Does that become an en dash if it's between two numbers?
        
           | Freak_NL wrote:
           | That has nothing to do with being on a Mac. Em-dashes and the
           | compose-key work fine on Linux, and Android has them under
           | the '-' of the on-screen keyboard when long-pressed.
           | 
           | (Windows probably has some way, but those are rarely
           | discoverable.)
        
             | BalinKing wrote:
             | That's true, I do use them a lot on iOS as well--similarly,
             | it's a long-press on '-' to get an en or em dash.
        
         | edflsafoiewq wrote:
         | It's &mdash; in HTML or Markdown.
         | 
         | If you use eg. a Japanese IME, you can also get it by typing a
         | normal hyphen and selecting the em dash from the picker.
        
         | layman51 wrote:
         | That's interesting to note. I have usually taken the time to
         | properly use en-dashes when it seems appropriate because I
         | frequently deal with strings that represent academic years. At
         | least where I live, these span two calendar years. I have
         | noticed that a lot of college websites tend to use the en-dash
         | properly (e.g. on their academic calendar webpages).
        
         | kbenson wrote:
         | Automatic conversions have been happening for a long time. In
         | fact, a few years ago there was some combination of settings on
         | my terminal locale settings and man (well, troff/groff most
         | likely) was converting hyphens in param definitions to some
         | sort of dash character, meaning I couldn't copy and paste out
         | of the man page. I think it also affected perldoc for the same
         | reason.
         | 
         | I don't doubt there are publishing platforms that do it
         | automatically as well, so I wouldn't count on seeing them as an
         | indicator of generated output, even if it may be _processed_ in
         | some manner.
        
           | tedunangst wrote:
           | This is because the original was written using the wrong
           | markup. When the output was ascii, nobody noticed, but it
           | matters when the output is unicode.
        
             | o11c wrote:
             | That's revisionism. It was considered correct historically,
             | before someone decided to unilaterally declare all existing
             | man pages "wrong".
        
         | globular-toast wrote:
         | (La)TeX would typeset -- as an en dash. --- gets you an em
         | dash.
         | 
         | I, of course, used proper dashes in typeset documents, at least
         | after I'd learnt about them in Knuth's _The TeXbook_. I have
         | found myself occasionally use them in ASCII contexts just as
         | ---. But I 've never sought out the proper unicode character.
        
         | maegul wrote:
         | Certain corners of the world have absolutely cared about and
         | employed the proper use of all the "dashes" well before but all
         | the way up to 2022. I'd imagine LLMs have just consumed some of
         | that material.
        
           | dragonwriter wrote:
           | Pretty much everything professionally edit and typeset does,
           | and those will generally be retained in Unicode text
           | (obviously, not if it gets converted to ASCII). It's less
           | common in internet fora because not all users either know the
           | use of dashes or have easy access to them on the devices they
           | are using, and if its not both familiar and easy, people are
           | going to skip it in quick messages.
        
         | tomrod wrote:
         | I wrote for a magazine during college days a few decades ago
         | that uses the Chicago manual of style. I still use em dashes,
         | en dashes, and hyphens regularly. They don't show up as such in
         | markdown, but they are effectively: one dash for hyphen, two
         | for em-dash, and one with spaces surrounding it for en dash.
        
         | kingo55 wrote:
         | More sophisticated clients require we use dashes correctly. I
         | first encountered it pre-pandemic, so in professional contexts
         | it's not a sure-fire signal of LLM use -- Should you see em
         | dashes correctly used in the Hacker News comments or Reddit,
         | for that matter, then it's pretty reliable tell... Usually. ;)
        
           | necovek wrote:
           | As I mentioned above, I've had them easily accessible with a
           | keyboard layout for >20 years on all the systems I've used --
           | the only caveat that I find it really ugly with no spaces
           | around em-dashes, which is usually recommended for English.
        
         | tshaddox wrote:
         | I've been Googling "em dash" and copypasting from the Google
         | results for a solid 15 years now. Long before LLMs.
        
           | jbverschoor wrote:
           | Just use the Raycast emojipicker, it's very good. Better and
           | faster than the macOS one
        
         | necovek wrote:
         | While this is true, this is an amazingly silly omission.
         | 
         | Serbian and Croatian XKB keyboard layouts have had em- and en-
         | dashes since early 2000s even if they were not standardized:
         | AltGr (right Alt) + hyphen (to the left of right Shift)
         | produces an em-dash, and press Shift on top, and you get an en-
         | dash.
         | 
         | This is how long I've had them easily accessible on any
         | keyboard (I even have them converted to MacOS keyboard layouts
         | for use with Karabiner).
         | 
         | http://srpski.org/dunav/raspored-c.html
        
         | PhunkyPhil wrote:
         | Iphones will autocorrect two hyphens to an em dash
        
         | op00to wrote:
         | My LLM prompts all have "don't use em dashes or semicolons
         | ever" when I send the output to someone else. ;)
        
         | heyjamesknight wrote:
         | I disagree--LLMs don't use them properly. They always put a
         | space between the words before - and after - the dashed part.
        
           | Freak_NL wrote:
           | Using spaces is not wrong. Typographically, a hair space or
           | another thinner than usual space is usually used, but in
           | plain text a space is often preferred. Style guides vary of
           | opinion on this, but newspapers often space them. Without a
           | space they end up looking like elongated hyphens joining the
           | words on both sides. That's not their function.
        
             | bluebarbet wrote:
             | This is US vs British English. You will struggle to find an
             | em dash in any British publication.
        
         | AstralSerenity wrote:
         | "Windows" + "." brings up symbols, and at the very top were em
         | dashes. I've been using that since it was added.
         | 
         | On my Linux laptop, I confess to manually Googling them every
         | time.
        
         | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
         | I've tried to use real hyphens and dashes since learning a bit
         | about typography roughly 10-15 years ago. macOS makes it really
         | easy with just alt and hyphen for en-dash, shift+alt and hyphen
         | for em-dash. Definitely not an "obvious tell" of an LLM!
        
         | starfezzy wrote:
         | The lack of em dash usage in popular culture speaks more about
         | typical people than it does about whether a text's author was
         | an LLM. In fact, the average person has never even noticed--let
         | alone considered--that the em dash exists. If they've read for
         | 20+ years, they've seen at LEAST hundreds of them.
         | 
         | Imagine being an NPC (a human bot), flattering yourself with
         | the thought that people who understand the language are
         | language bots...
        
         | metaphor wrote:
         | I use --- to represent em dash in prose here, e.g. [1][2]. The
         | behavior is just a residual of long time exposure to TeX.
         | 
         | [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41833665
         | 
         | [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41774199
        
         | beejiu wrote:
         | If em dashes were uncommon pre-2022, they wouldn't have ended
         | up in the LLM training sets.
        
         | account-5 wrote:
         | I recently got accused of using AI for some writing I submitted
         | because I regularly use both en-dashes and em-dashes, and have
         | for years. I said in another thread recently they are second
         | and third, to semi-colons, as my favourite punctuation marks.
         | 
         | I was able to demonstrate my long use of them, prior to LLMs.
         | And since I write in quarto markdown I don't need keyboard
         | shortcuts.
        
         | QuantumGood wrote:
         | I have typed Alt+0151 almost every day for decades--and now
         | with some annoyance I am limiting their use due to the "that's
         | how LLMs write."
        
       | the__alchemist wrote:
       | If you're on Windows, install PowerToys, and check out the
       | KeyBoard manager. It lets you set up shortcuts. I overload my
       | keys using right alt for greek letters. (science stuff). Could do
       | it for these dashes as well.
        
       | a3w wrote:
       | > spans pages 128-34.
       | 
       | Who omits the 1 from the second number?! That is aweful!
        
         | mkehrt wrote:
         | What if it's 124 to 127? would you really type 124-127, or
         | 124-7?
        
           | wavemode wrote:
           | > would you really type 124-127
           | 
           | literally yes
        
           | rossant wrote:
           | The latter, I believe.
        
           | eCa wrote:
           | > would you really type 124-127?
           | 
           | Yes, every time. The clarity for the reader is more important
           | than the time I save by leaving out '12'.
        
         | rossant wrote:
         | When I was editing an academic book published by a well-known
         | university press, we were all asked to do that for the
         | references. (And my colleagues, all doctors and lawyers, only
         | knew Word and entered the references manually.)
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | Who _keeps_ the 1?
         | 
         | You write pages 1,003-4, instead of typing out 1,003-1,004
         | which is just unnecessary.
         | 
         | Works the same with two digits, or even three: pp. 1,899-902.
         | 
         | This is standard practice and arguably clearer.
         | 
         | I've only ever seen it done with page ranges, though. I'm not
         | sure if it's done with year ranges? E.g. 1984-5? Or 1989-92?
         | You work with page ranges constantly in academia, I just don't
         | see year ranges much in _any_ form.
        
       | zahlman wrote:
       | $ python -m this | grep '--' -
        
         | nextts wrote:
         | As long as "this" is not a typical README.md with code
         | snippets.
        
       | rednafi wrote:
       | I like em dashes and use "Option Shift -" to summon them on
       | macOS. However, LLMs tend to overuse them and compose absurdly
       | long sentences. While proofreading a draft, I often instruct an
       | LLM to "keep the original tone intact and don't create overly
       | complex sentences by fusing together simple ones." That usually
       | gets the job done.
       | 
       | Writers adores their em dashes. While they can sometimes clarify
       | a concept by adding more context, overusing them can hurt
       | readability. I prefer to read Hemingway-esque sentences that just
       | say what they want to say and end sharply. So that's how I write
       | too--and sometimes the overuse of em dashes directly conflicts
       | with that, making the content sound as if the author is confused
       | about what they wanted to convey.
        
       | sandbach wrote:
       | Robert Bringhurst1 prefers the en dash in the context of setting
       | off phrases:
       | 
       | "The em dash is the nineteenth-century standard, still prescribed
       | in many editorial style books, but the em dash is too long for
       | use with the best text faces. Like the oversized space between
       | sentences, it belongs to the padded and corseted aesthetic of
       | Victorian typography.
       | 
       | "Used as a phrase marker - thus - the en dash is set with a
       | normal word space either side."
       | 
       | 1https://archive.org/details/isbn_9780881791327/page/80/mode/...
        
         | asplake wrote:
         | I think of that as "British" style (as opposed to American). I
         | think it's more common here and I certainly prefer it
        
         | tkcranny wrote:
         | Presently re-reading this book, The Elements of Typographic
         | Style. It's one of the few books I've gone out of my way to get
         | a physical copy of - it's just beautiful.
         | 
         | And I totally agree, space-set en dashes are vastly superior to
         | em. I dislike the way it connects the word more closely to the
         | word in the next clause than the phrase itself.
         | 
         | E.g. He left--no explanation. Vs. He left - no explanation.
         | 
         | To me, left--no feels like a weird gluing together than a
         | separator for a different section.
        
           | munificent wrote:
           | Because I am exactly the kind of person to obsess about this
           | sort of thing, when I was working on my last book, I spent a
           | lot of time deciding how I wanted to style dashed subordinate
           | clauses.
           | 
           | Personally, I think en dashes are too small and look like a
           | mistaken use of a hyphen. I really only use them in their
           | Chicago Manual of Style recommended uses like date ranges.
           | 
           | But I agree that em dashes without spaces around them look
           | wrong. They glue the adjoining words together when the whole
           | point is that the clause is secondary and should be set aside
           | from the surrounding text.
           | 
           | I ended up using em dashes with a little blob of CSS to put a
           | tiny amount of space on either side.
        
       | bangaladore wrote:
       | Somewhat off topic, however, I'm thoroughly convinced that there
       | is a very high probability something is AI generated when I see
       | Em dashes. Anyone else noticing this?
       | 
       | ChatGPT for example almost always uses them. I'm sure they are
       | more common in academic writing, but its now super common on
       | boards like Reddit.
        
         | mychaelangelo wrote:
         | I've noticed this, too. ChatGPT especially overuses them
         | relative to other models. It's an easy tell-sign that something
         | is probably LLM-written.
        
           | zimpenfish wrote:
           | I saw a reel the other day where some Young People(tm) were
           | talking about "the ChatGPT hyphen" (an em-dash.) There was
           | much wailing and gnashing of (false) teeth from Old
           | People(tm) in the comments.
        
         | pavlov wrote:
         | It's largely the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon. You've started
         | noticing it because you just learned about it.
        
           | dkdcwashere wrote:
           | yep. been using them for years. others have too. it's not
           | weird
           | 
           | same thing happened with "delve" -- these are just words and
           | grammar, people use them
           | 
           | there is no accurate way to tell whether text came out of a
           | neural network or not
        
             | chatmasta wrote:
             | I'm not sure the same happened with "delve." I saw an
             | analysis of paper abstracts showing a clear uptick of
             | "delve" starting with the mass-adoption of ChatGPT. Maybe
             | it suddenly became a trendy word -- especially in paper
             | abstracts -- or maybe more paper abstracts were edited by
             | ChatGPT.
        
             | kingo55 wrote:
             | Combining the various "tells" of an LLM (em dashes, delve,
             | grammatical signs etc) with the context (Reddit comments vs
             | professional setting), you could establish a rough
             | probability it was AI generated. At this point, it's the
             | best we can hope for.
        
             | LeoPanthera wrote:
             | Gemini is in love with the phrase "It's important to..."
             | 
             | Whenever I see that at the start of a paragraph I know that
             | there's an 80% chance it was written by Gemini.
        
         | awestley wrote:
         | Yes! It's a tell-tale sign something is written by AI.
        
           | dkdcwashere wrote:
           | it is not
        
         | encypherai wrote:
         | Yes, several of the most popular (and even lesser-popular but
         | newly open-sourced models such as Gemma 3 27b) overuse Em
         | dashes. Even when prompting them to not use dashes, they almost
         | can't help themselves and include them occasionally anyways as
         | it must be part of their learned stylometry. It's just not a
         | common symbol to use at all as most people generally use commas
         | for the same purpose. I can't even remember learning about Em
         | dashes in my college english classes.
        
           | nextos wrote:
           | I submitted an application which I typeset using LaTeX, and
           | some people thought it was AI-generated because of en and em
           | dashes. I have been using these since forever.
        
         | dskhatri wrote:
         | There are regular folk who tend to be pedantic with their
         | writing. I'm not sure this is a good test of whether text is
         | generated by LLM. Consider that some may use LLMs to correct
         | spelling or grammar, and the LLMs may often edit an en dash to
         | em dash.
        
         | kbenson wrote:
         | If it's posted through a publishing platform (not just a
         | commend on one or on a public site), it's very possible they do
         | an automatic conversion of some of the common cases. That could
         | also be filtering down to comment boxes and stuff, I'm not
         | sure.
         | 
         | That's not to say that generated content doesn't use them, just
         | that using them as an indicator might require a bit of nuance
         | based on where you're seeing them.
        
         | alabastervlog wrote:
         | I've been employing em-dashes extensively since I went on a JD
         | Salinger binge circa 2002. Also, "incidentally", for the same
         | reason. I use "Nb" a lot, from reading a bunch of DFW years
         | ago. Oh, and that very-precise construction he does with
         | "which" all the time, I stole that.
         | 
         | Before LLMs, I think em-dashes mostly signaled that you read
         | books and paid attention to details, to the extent they
         | signaled anything.
        
         | culi wrote:
         | Everyone I know that writes a lot, especially for copy or
         | product design, seems to use em dashes more heavily. I've even
         | seen a Drake format meme where he is shaking his head at
         | parantheses, commas, and colons but--finally--nodding in
         | approval at the em dash.
         | 
         | I wonder if it's a more recent phenomenon.
        
         | nilkn wrote:
         | I've encountered and used em dashes regularly for the last 20
         | years. If most of your reading and writing are associated with
         | social media, I could see the trend you're describing appearing
         | real within that limited context. But em dashes are not new and
         | have been a feature of high quality writing for many decades.
        
       | 867-5309 wrote:
       | minus (US negative) enters the chat..
        
         | crazygringo wrote:
         | Seriously. If you want your - + to match, in terms of crossbar
         | vertical position and width.
        
           | culi wrote:
           | For comparison--
           | 
           | - + minus sign
           | 
           | - + hyphen
           | 
           | - + en dash
           | 
           | -- + em dash
           | 
           | -+-+-+--
        
       | cporios wrote:
       | if anyone's wondering, the post title is wrong -- both of the
       | first two characters are en dashes (U+2013).
        
       | babypuncher wrote:
       | Or, you can avoid an awful lot of headache by just sticking to
       | hyphens.
        
       | culi wrote:
       | > If you want to be official about things, use the en dash to
       | replace a hyphen in compound adjectives when at least one of the
       | elements is a two-word compound.
       | 
       | How is a literal dictionary making fun of people who "wanna be
       | official about things" lol. That's the entire basis for
       | dictionaries themselves
        
         | mikethemerry wrote:
         | It's Merriam-Webster - they are descriptivist rather than
         | prescriptivist about language. They don't define correct usage
         | per se, but rather document actual usage, though some usage may
         | be given greater weight than others.
         | 
         | In this case, they are calling out the prescriptivist
         | definition but are implying that it may be overkill and
         | offering the more commonly used alternative.
        
       | nayuki wrote:
       | Additionally:
       | 
       | * Use the minus sign /-/ (U+2212) when formatting numbers,
       | because the default hyphen-minus /-/ (U+2D) just looks wrong: "It
       | is -1 degC vs. -1 degC." Moreover, the correct minus has the same
       | width as plus (- vs. +).
       | 
       | * Rare, but use the figure dash /-/ (U+2012) or figure space / /
       | (U+2007) if you need a placeholder character that is the same
       | width as a single digit. For example, "Guess the PIN: 1-34."
        
       | ludicity wrote:
       | I use em-dashes correctly because a reader emailed me, and I was
       | dreadfully embarrassed. You can actually see them become correct
       | in my writing after the "I will pile drive you" AI thing.
       | 
       | It never occurred to me that doing this correctly might make
       | people think I use LLMs in my writing.
       | 
       | Edit: I'm sure the many typos protect me from that, actually.
        
       | o11c wrote:
       | One point that is very rarely mentioned is how to place em dashes
       | around quotations marks.
       | 
       | If the em dash indicates an interruption (not a planned pause) of
       | the actual speech, the em dashes go inside the quotes (often just
       | one, before the closing quote).
       | 
       | If the em dash is the narrator interjecting with additional
       | information, the em dashes go outside the quotes.
       | 
       | Besides this, the question of where to put spaces when multiple
       | forms of punctuation are combined can be quite a complex topic.
        
       | numbers wrote:
       | On macOS you can enter these by doing the following:
       | 
       | * em dash: [?] + | + - (alt + shift + hyphen)
       | 
       | * en dash: [?] + - (alt + hyphen)
        
       | appleorchard46 wrote:
       | Hot take - differentiating between these at all is dumb. There is
       | virtually no situation when using one instead of another improves
       | clarity.
        
       | Starlevel004 wrote:
       | I refuse to care about this. A single dash is all I will ever
       | use. I see no possible reason to use the other two.
        
         | theelous3 wrote:
         | Throwing my hat in here. The sub millimeter difference in the
         | length of a dash conveys no additional meaning or clarity. It
         | is impossible to argue me out of this position.
        
           | miltonlost wrote:
           | Length of breath/pause with a longer dash. Read some -- Emily
           | Dickinson poems - you'll find a world --- of meaning --- in
           | the millimeter.
        
         | fernandotakai wrote:
         | uh, really?
         | 
         | i really like using em dashes -- for some reason, it feels
         | "better" in my head than using something like a comma or a
         | semi-colon.
        
         | lioeters wrote:
         | That's the comment I was looking for to rally behind. I use the
         | same character `-` for all purposes: minus, hyphen, em/en dash.
         | It's easy to type and it makes practically no difference in
         | meaning or legibility. I refuse to waste my time
         | differentiating between multiple variations of a short
         | horizontal line with a few pixels more or less. Ain't nobody
         | got time for that.
        
       | colanderman wrote:
       | Note also that the "hyphen" on your keyboard is actually a
       | "hyphen-minus". Unicode provides separate characters for hyphen
       | (-) and minus (-).
        
       | phkahler wrote:
       | Let's not forget the minus symbol at U2212. I was making a
       | Simulink like diagram editor and the dashes just didn't look
       | good. 2212 worked nicely.
        
       | starfezzy wrote:
       | We need a blog post documenting the ironic trend of people--
       | themselves NPCs, actual human bots, just now realizing the em
       | dash exists despite seeing it hundreds if not thousands of times
       | before LLMs--flattering themselves by suggesting that anyone who
       | understands the language at above a 5th grade level must be an
       | LLM.
        
       | dankwizard wrote:
       | a human has never used an em dash in the wild
        
       | apparent wrote:
       | This shows both the en dashes and hyphens for page ranges. Is one
       | preferred?
        
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       (page generated 2025-03-27 23:00 UTC)