[HN Gopher] Using Gorilla glass for home building
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Using Gorilla glass for home building
Author : nailer
Score : 64 points
Date : 2025-03-24 00:27 UTC (3 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.wsj.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.wsj.com)
| biglyburrito wrote:
| https://archive.is/ysoFM
| mock-possum wrote:
| As a home owner - updating / improving my windows is a luxury I
| very much wish I could afford. It's hard to imagine being able to
| mess with the windows unless it's with a newly purchased empty
| property.
| jbjbjbjb wrote:
| Judging by home owners around me it looks to be quite a popular
| change. As far as I can tell they're pretty much changing like
| for like (upvc with double glazing) without the energy
| efficiency upgrade. Changing from white to black frames seems
| to be the driving factor.
| morkalork wrote:
| Living in a suburb built in the 60s and 70s the two things I
| see after every sale is new windows and doors, and digging up
| and replacing the French drain.
| more_corn wrote:
| Depending on your heating and cooling bill it could be cost-
| effective. The new windows are so much more energy efficient
| that you start to payback the insulation costs pretty quick.
| thathndude wrote:
| Mine are due to be replaced, and I'll definitely keep my eye on
| this. But, if that wasn't the case, I wouldn't be running to
| replace windows before end of life.
| tastyfreeze wrote:
| Replacing windows is actually one of the easier DIY home jobs
| you can do. Hell of a lot easier than building a deck that a
| lot of people do. They are installed after framing and meant to
| be removed if they break. Removing the trim inside and outside
| will give you access to the fasteners holding the frame in.
|
| Usually, the hardest part is finding windows that fit and match
| your taste.
| kirtakat wrote:
| That's true for relatively new construction, but for
| instance, I have a 100 year old house with stucco. Replacing
| my windows is a nightmare job. Whereas my back deck was a far
| simpler project
| gazook89 wrote:
| Same here. We removed trim inside the house and it wasnt
| that bad, but I was just replacing the trim-- not the
| windows. I could see that removing the windows would be a
| pain the ass very quickly. And it has already been done
| once.
| mrj wrote:
| Yeah, for me my windows weren't standard sizes so had to be
| custom built, anyhow. At that point, you might as well get
| installation as well. Some stucco had to be chipped back to
| insert the new window but it's covered by the vinyl frame.
| Low-e windows are amazing though.
| kylehotchkiss wrote:
| I have a stucco home, I've been doing replacement windows
| (I like milgard) and my stucco hasn't been touched. I have
| other people install them though.
| blodorn wrote:
| 100 year old windows were designed for easy maintenance and
| repair. Are the double hung windows? If they are, you can
| make sure to have storm windows on which effectively work
| as a double pane window. If this new glass were available,
| you could replace every pane in your window without
| removing a nail.
| drjasonharrison wrote:
| I seriously doubt they would provide the glass without
| frames, which requires removing the moulding around the
| existing window.
| pests wrote:
| Selling panes of window glass that you then frame in is a
| common method for larger windows or odd shapes.
|
| Here is a random product on Amazon, custom cut Low E
| insulated window panes:
| https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DHD4F3HY
|
| I see no reason why the company in this post wouldnt.
| bloomingeek wrote:
| My home is 58 years old. last summer I had the original
| aluminum single-pane windows replaced with vinyl double-
| pane ones. I 'assisted' the installer and knew he would
| prob run into some settling of the window opening. I was
| right, there's no way I could done the replacements on my
| own, owing to proper tools alone.
|
| My power company sent me an email the following December
| telling me my energy savings from the previous October,
| 2023 (that month only), for the same month in 2024, was
| 31%! When I called the installer and told him, he said a
| large part of that was prob from leakage around the old
| windows and the now double panes.
| fellowniusmonk wrote:
| Finding the right size windows without having to go custom
| has proven to be nearly impossible. It's not a hard project
| but unless you are fortunate with window dimensions it is far
| more expensive than building a deck.
| nemomarx wrote:
| naive question- couldn't you resize the hole in the wall to
| use a larger window pane?
| tastyfreeze wrote:
| It depends on how the home was constructed. With stick
| frames the window frame is built to take the load from
| the studs above it and direct it around the window and to
| the studs below. It can be done but it is not an easy
| job. Going smaller is easy though. Just build a smaller
| frame inside the existing one.
| arwineap wrote:
| Generally, if you don't want to pull a permit, you can
| change a windows height but not its width
|
| This is because of how the wood around it is framed to
| provide support to the wall above
| quickthrowman wrote:
| You can, but you'd need to remove the siding and drywall
| and reframe the window opening, see a window framing
| diagram here, can't cut the king studs or you lose
| structural integrity: https://www.do-it-yourself-
| help.com/how-to-frame-a-new-windo...
| Freak_NL wrote:
| What's wrong with a custom size? I replaced two small
| windows with triple glass ones, and just ordered the right
| size online. I don't think it's even possible to buy
| windows in a standard size (whichever that may be) here in
| the Netherlands. A professional glazier would order the
| windows from the factory just as the shop with a fancy
| website with a configurator did for my order.
| KerrAvon wrote:
| > Replacing windows is actually one of the easier DIY home
| jobs you can do
|
| I think you're assuming a baseline level of competence that
| many don't have. I'm comfortable with electrical work and
| some plumbing but I wouldn't do my own window installation.
| scarecrowbob wrote:
| I've replaced windows before, and I'm handy but not a
| professional.
|
| Depending on the construction it's not super hard to pull them
| out and put new ones in, it takes about 20-30 min per window.
| oblio wrote:
| > As a home owner - updating / improving my windows is a luxury
| I very much wish I could afford.
|
| What has gone wrong in super capitalistic America that much
| poorer Romanians, for example, can afford average quality
| double glazed and triple glazed windows and Americans can't?
| onlypassingthru wrote:
| Labor costs. Work in the trades can pay VERY well in the
| wealthier parts of the US. Plumbing, electrical, carpentry,
| tile journeyman can all make over six figures in the major
| metro areas.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| Steve Jobs with a windows update? Very confusing
| jml7c5 wrote:
| This is a strange article. It portrays triple and quadruple pane
| windows as a new development, but they've been around for years.
|
| As far as I can tell, the only development here is the use of
| ultra-thin glass in the interior layers. This reduces cost, size,
| and weight relative to normal triple/quadruple-glazed windows.
| wussboy wrote:
| My dad built a house in the late 80s with all triple-paned
| glass...although there were essentially three separate windows,
| packaged as one.
| kleiba wrote:
| Except that a cascade of windows is not what is typically
| referred to as triple-pane. If multiple windows were to count
| here, then "double-paned windows" have been around for
| centuries.
| archi42 wrote:
| I feel like they're around for decades? Gorilla glass is
| absolutely no necessity to enable 3 or 4 panes. ChatGPT (sry,
| I'm becoming lazy) agrees that they're available since the
| 1980s. In the US adoption became more widespread in the 2000s.
| Here in Europe/Germany they became more popular in the 1990s
| already. This matches how I remember it.
|
| When we replaced our 1980s double glazed windows with triple
| glazed a few years ago, I could have easily gotten four-pane
| insulated windows as well, except for the roof-installed
| windows. Drawbacks of multi-pane are the increased weight and
| them being more opaque.
|
| (Yes, we also insulated the walls and can control humidity -
| just in case someone wants to point out that the window
| replacement alone can cause moisture/mold damage to our house
| :))
| eagerpace wrote:
| It says "only 20% more than energy efficient windows" but those
| "energy efficient windows" are usually 50% more than the average
| quality window. Higher quality triple pane windows exist, and
| they are a luxury for most homeowners. It's great technology, but
| relatively few people build or upgrade their house with the long
| term consequences in mind for these things. There's a reason you
| get a positive ROI when you fix up a kitchen or bathroom versus
| replacing windows which is typically viewed as maintenance. There
| needs to be incentives for these upgrades to be adopted by home
| builders.
| greggsy wrote:
| Many Australian jurisdictions require the energy efficiency
| rating to be included with the listing, which factors in things
| like double glazing.
|
| Their value is absolutely recognised as something greater than
| maintenance in this market.
| KerrAvon wrote:
| Buyers absolutely care about energy efficiency and insulation
| from noise, and neither can be addressed fully without upgraded
| windows. It's one of the first things experienced homebuyers
| should look at -- if the windows are 1980's single pane, I'd
| expect to spend least $20k in window replacement parts + labor
| for a large house on top of the house price.
| grendelt wrote:
| It's one of the first things buyers _should_ look at. But
| they don 't. They check out the kitchen cabinets, bathroom
| fixtures, and lovely floors and wall finishing.
| drjasonharrison wrote:
| School district.
| BobaFloutist wrote:
| The thing is, is 20k really that significant when compared to
| the price of a large house?
| sccxy wrote:
| Triple pane windows are not that kind of luxury.
|
| I live in a poor Eastern European country and this is the
| standard for new buildings.
| drjasonharrison wrote:
| Ah, but in North America, only double-pane windows are
| required. Triple-pane windows are considered necessary for
| noise abatement but are prohibitively expensive. There are
| government rebates for upgrading older homes from single to
| double-pane windows, but no third-pane increase in the
| rebate.
| freedomben wrote:
| Yes, and to give an idea I replaced some windows in my
| house a couple years back. The double pane windows on the
| north side were about $100 to $150 per, while the triple
| pane windows on the south side were $900. The triple pane
| also had higher installation labor costs. It seemed
| ludicrous to me that it would be so much more expensive,
| but after calling around, that was very typical.
| voisin wrote:
| Why was labor more expensive?
| delusional wrote:
| Only thing I could imagine was extra hands to deal with
| the weight.
| ahofmann wrote:
| Here in Germany triple pane windows are very much a luxury.
| kleiba wrote:
| Nonsense, they're pretty much standard for new buildings,
| too.
| antisthenes wrote:
| They are the standard, because historically Eastern European
| winters are several times harsher than anything in USA, with
| the exception of a few states bordering Canada.
|
| So the ROI is way higher.
| kleiba wrote:
| They're standard because energy is more expensive in Europe
| than in the US.
| voisin wrote:
| Properly priced externalities strike again?
| thrawa8387336 wrote:
| Sure, if it helps you sleep. There is a good reason for
| you to consume less
| stronglikedan wrote:
| After over a decade in my home in a sunny area, I wish I would
| have replaced the windows with energy efficient ones when I
| first moved in. Just the savings on power over the past 10
| years would have made them worth it. I'm pretty sure I'd have
| at least broken even by now.
|
| All this to say, if I were building a new home, I would make it
| as energy efficient as possible as soon as possible. In my
| mind, it would be an investment, not maintenance.
| kev009 wrote:
| I've met plenty of wealthy people that have the mindset "luxury
| = frivolous" -- while that may be true to some extent, for i.e.
| a brand name T-shirt very few people I meet regardless of
| income bracket understand much of anything about the
| built/manufactured world.
|
| In most realms, thoughtfully paying more for something yields
| an economic win over the lifetime (i.e. in this case energy
| efficiency).
|
| Also somewhat ironically most people (even frugal) have some
| intuitive appreciation of quality -- if you place fitting
| architectural windows and doors on a structure your guests will
| appreciate it at some level, even if they don't understand why
| -- but expending the mental effort to design in such things is
| beyond most people for whatever reason even if they can afford
| it.
|
| Whether it translates into value capture depends on the
| demographic of buyer, there is a large uncanny valley of
| builders that will do the lipstick-on-a-pig thing for a flip or
| even highly priced spec homes but at some point architects
| prevail and the structure is well designed at the price point.
| bobthepanda wrote:
| Unfortunately, right now the market is so tight you could put
| slop out and it would sell like hotcakes.
| shdh wrote:
| > this glass is so well insulated, it actually creates warmth in
| his living room: It admits the radiant heat of the low winter sun
| but prevents conductive heat loss through the window
| joezydeco wrote:
| You mean, like a greenhouse?
| notmyspacetom wrote:
| There is a company called LuxWall that is producing vacuum
| insulated windows that act basically like a thermos. There is a
| tiny space between the two panes that is pulled down to a high
| vacuum that results in a window that only transfers heat via
| radiation. Conductive and convective heat transfer are
| essentially eliminated. This results in a window with a R value
| similar to a fully insulated wall. Because the full unit is so
| thin, they are able to replace single pane windows in old
| buildings and drastically cut buildings energy consumption.
| xnx wrote:
| Sounds cool, but also exceedingly difficult to maintain a
| [near] vacuum over the ~25 year life of a window.
| jajko wrote:
| One bigger hit and its gone and you will not even know it
| till it fogs. Even argon glass of same pressure as air can
| eventually leak out and be replaced by air, reducing its
| efficiency significantly.
| grendelt wrote:
| Are these big national-brand window companies that provide
| "lifetime warranty" just cashing in today and hoping for
| the best (bankruptcy) exit strategy later when all their
| installs from this generation fail in a couple decades?
|
| Not installers, but companies like Pella, Window World, et
| al.
| SoftTalker wrote:
| They may define "lifetime" as "25 years" or limit the
| warranty to the original purchaser, knowing that most
| people don't live in one house that long, or count on the
| later owners not realizing that there is a warranty, or
| knowing when or from whom the windows were purchased.
| 0xffff2 wrote:
| Yeah, there's a disturbing trend of products advertising
| a "lifetime warranty", only the fine print says that the
| "lifetime" in question is the "lifetime of the product",
| which is whatever the manufacturer says it is (usually no
| better than the competition).
| notmyspacetom wrote:
| They typically use a getter to maintain the vacuum over the
| lifetime of the window, similar to other sealed vacuum
| systems like CRT's or vacuum tubes.
| dredmorbius wrote:
| For those unfamiliar with getters:
|
| <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getter>
| greggsy wrote:
| That's neat but very difficult to maintain, let alone
| transport. Large panes will also bow under that kind of
| pressure.
| DeRock wrote:
| > Large panes will also bow under that kind of pressure.
|
| They typically have support pillars arrayed throughout the
| panel to prevent any bowing or flexing.
| davidw wrote:
| Finally, people who live in glass houses will be able to throw
| stones.
| tristor wrote:
| One of the biggest expenses I had for my previous home was
| replacing all the windows. It helped a lot, but unfortunately was
| $26k to have done properly (could have been done cheaper, but I
| went for the good stuff) and the net result was a $0 increase in
| potential sale price. When I sold the house, I only made money on
| the deal because of the market doubling in the time span I owned
| the property.
|
| Now I'm looking to buy/build again, and I will still invest in
| good windows because it makes such a difference on a summer day
| and with noise, that quality of life difference matters to me,
| but it seems it doesn't matter to anyone else because it's not
| priced in and builders don't care. Even if I buy a brand new
| "energy efficient" track house, it'll have shit windows. Only by
| building a custom house and mandating these things can I have any
| hope of getting it if I don't want to dump another $20k-$30k into
| a house after I buy it.
| kleiba wrote:
| Interesting, when I lived in Europe, I observed that it was the
| other way around there: if your house only has double-pane
| windows from the 80s, that will definitely reduce your sales
| price quite a bit.
| jeppine wrote:
| Would encourage anybody who has a historic home pre-1940s to keep
| their original windows and just restore them. Unless you get 4
| and 6 pane windows, the energy savings are minimal.
|
| Brent Hull is a good resource on historic windows and outlines
| the reasons to keep them.
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6mAmIrN5qY
|
| Plus, the original windows look significantly better and will
| last longer.
| downrightmike wrote:
| Pre 1940 homes were meant to breath. If they don't, they mold
| and rot
| blacksmith_tb wrote:
| "[triple pane] windows saved an average of 12% on heating and
| 28% on cooling"[1]
|
| That said, if you haven't insulated the walls and attic,
| windows alone won't do much.
|
| 1: https://www.pnnl.gov/news-media/how-triple-pane-windows-
| stop...
| FuriouslyAdrift wrote:
| The building I work in has "ballistic" glass in one area that is
| 6 inches thick (split into three 2" sections internally) and it
| is soooo quiet. I wish I could get those on my house for noise
| abatement.
| jmward01 wrote:
| Not really on topic, sorry, but all I can think about when
| reading this article is the beginning of The Hudsucker Proxy.
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