[HN Gopher] Fragment of a human face aged over one million years...
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       Fragment of a human face aged over one million years discovered
        
       Author : docmechanic
       Score  : 63 points
       Date   : 2025-03-23 19:33 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.sciencedaily.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.sciencedaily.com)
        
       | docmechanic wrote:
       | 'The discovery of a human facial fragment aged over one million
       | years represents the oldest known face in western Europe and
       | confirms the region was inhabited by two species of human during
       | the early Pleistocene, finds a new study.'
        
       | llm_nerd wrote:
       | Didn't humans first leave Africa 100,000 years ago by high
       | estimates? To Western Europe 40,000 years ago?
       | 
       | Doesn't this completely upend early humanity?
        
         | eesmith wrote:
         | Homo but not Homo sapiens.
         | 
         | > "The evidence is still insufficient for a definitive
         | classification, which is why it has been assigned to H. aff.
         | erectus. This designation acknowledges Pink's affinities with
         | Homo erectus while leaving open the possibility that it may
         | belong to another species." -
         | https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2025/mar/fragment-human-face-aged...
        
         | ceejayoz wrote:
         | No. Human here means a species in the Homo genus. That includes
         | a lot more than just _modern_ humans.
        
         | diddlybopshubop wrote:
         | Modern humans did. Other human species left Africa and
         | populated the rest of the old world much, much earlier.
         | 
         | I'm not up-to-date on my research these days but it's only
         | within the last 10K years or so (maybe even more recent) where
         | there's been one extant human subspecies.
        
           | kingofthehill98 wrote:
           | The craziest thing for me is that there's a lot of evidence
           | for claiming that Sapiens interbred with other Homos, such as
           | the Neanderthal.
        
             | danielbln wrote:
             | Why is that crazy? Looking at human history, this doesn't
             | come as much of a shock, does it?
        
               | checkyoursudo wrote:
               | Humans do like to fuck.
        
               | dmd wrote:
               | rishathra
        
             | dyauspitr wrote:
             | Interbred is putting it mildly. More like killed the men
             | and raped all the women. This was repeated again with the
             | Yamnaya from the Caucasus a few millennia ago where they
             | again killed all the men and raped all the women.
        
               | im3w1l wrote:
               | How certainly do we actually know that? If the evidence
               | you claim is that there are no Y-chromosomes from other
               | hominids, an alternative explanation could be that
               | hybrids with Y-chromosomes from other hominids did exist,
               | but disappeared gradually over the centuries/millenia
               | either because they were less fit or through pure chance.
               | 
               | Are there any now living people with mt-dna from other
               | hominids?
               | 
               | Having a minority non-autosomal genotype could be an
               | issue as there might be recurring "compatibility
               | problems", given that the autosomal dna would mainly
               | evolve to work with the majority mtdna and ydna.
        
               | ginko wrote:
               | The genetic evidence points into the other direction:
               | 
               | > There is considerably less Neanderthal ancestry on the
               | X-chromosome compared to the autosomal chromosomes, which
               | similarly suggests that admixture with modern humans was
               | primarily the result of mating between modern human
               | females and Neanderthal males.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal_genetics#Parent
               | age
        
             | gigachad69 wrote:
             | a lot of evidence as in most europeans, eurasians and east
             | asians have some percentage of neanderthal genes in their
             | DNA
        
             | wincy wrote:
             | If you've seen Star Trek the Original Series it shows you
             | precisely how much humans are into humanoid subspecies.
             | They could be green for all a dude who hasn't seen a woman
             | in a week could care!
        
               | thaumasiotes wrote:
               | > They could be green for all a dude who hasn't seen a
               | woman in a week could care!
               | 
               | Not a great example; the green women are specifically
               | shown to exert pheromonal control over alien males.
        
             | encipriano wrote:
             | Isnt neanderthal sapiens. Also, not all modern humans
        
           | kbrannigan wrote:
           | What if the literature of God Created men(mankind) in his
           | image came to differentiate Homo sapiens from others.
           | 
           | Or the history really began once the other Humans were no
           | more ?
           | 
           | Just passing thoughts
        
             | cdblades wrote:
             | There are at least several thousand years between the last
             | non-modern human hominids dying out and the first writing
             | emerging.
        
               | nkoren wrote:
               | About 20,000 years in fact.
        
             | IAmBroom wrote:
             | I've been thinking about this a lot, by coincidence, as I
             | read Unsong by Scott Alexander (unsongbook.com). It's a
             | beautifully written somewhat comic and somewhat tragic
             | story about the kabbalic-turned-capitalist search for the
             | powerful Names of God.
             | 
             | It occurred to me that, if the Abrahamic God exists, and
             | the origin of Adam is anything more than a mere metaphor,
             | God must have had to make a decision at some point.
             | "There!", He/She/It said as the last vital chromosome fell
             | into place in generation Aleph-1, "All this work is finally
             | done. Whew! I could use some rest." Or something.
             | 
             | But maybe it's all metaphor (except for the God existing
             | part). Maybe the Garden of Eden was Us (big-us, all the
             | hominids) co-existing without technology, and the rise of
             | flint-knapping/agriculture/representational art/whatever
             | was the "eating of the fruit and gaining of knowledge".
             | 
             | Or any other variation you like, as long as you're not
             | intentionally bound from thinking by a literalist view of
             | the Torah's Book of Genesis. In which case, I have bad
             | news: "Adam" wasn't even named that in the early writings,
             | presumably closer to God's word. So, your translation is a
             | bad start for you.
             | 
             | So, maybe the "Twelve Tribes of Israel" are themselves
             | metaphoric for the whole set of hominin branches. Maybe
             | "Ham" was Paranthropus. Accepting that "seven" in the bible
             | sometimes implies "an important big number", maybe "seven"
             | generations later (give or take a few 100) Paranthropus
             | died out completely. Poor Ham. He was just checking to make
             | sure Dad didn't oversleep.
             | 
             | Or maybe, there is no God, and it's just fun to play with
             | myths, which are culturally powerful.
        
               | dmonitor wrote:
               | It's not hard to see how "leaving the garden" can be
               | interpreted as us leaving nature. We're the only animal
               | that doesn't really jive with the rest of the ecosystem.
        
               | jdthedisciple wrote:
               | > "Adam" wasn't even named that in the early writings,
               | presumably closer to God's word.
               | 
               | Citation needed. What was he named in the early writings?
        
           | thaumasiotes wrote:
           | > Other human species left Africa and populated the rest of
           | the old world much, much earlier.
           | 
           | Usually those would be called hominids, not humans.
        
         | sightbroke wrote:
         | Article says this skull fragment is possibly Homo Erectus.
         | 
         | This says they left Africa within in that time:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_erectus
         | 
         | This has further details on human evolution:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human#Evolution
         | 
         | This covers in more detail the time modern humans migrated from
         | Africa:
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_African_origin_of_moder...
        
           | ge96 wrote:
           | > Ah-ha! But no one has found the missing link between ape
           | and this so called Homo habilis
        
             | IAmBroom wrote:
             | Using the term "missing link" instantly flags you as not
             | having a serious evolutionary background.
             | 
             | We don't find "missing links". Ever, really. They existed,
             | but the fossil record is far too small a sampling to gift
             | us like that.
        
               | ge96 wrote:
               | It's a joke/quote from Futurama
        
               | jyounker wrote:
               | Context: https://comb.io/osyksW
        
         | dyauspitr wrote:
         | No the homo genus includes everything from something barely
         | distinguishable from an gorilla all the way to modern humans.
        
           | IAmBroom wrote:
           | Only if you can't tell a gorilla from a chimpanzee.
           | 
           | Neither are first-cousins to Homo, which is descended from
           | genii since the split from the shoot that Bonobos came from.
        
         | codingwagie wrote:
         | You dont still believe that do you?
        
       | eesmith wrote:
       | More info in the press release from UCL at
       | https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2025/mar/fragment-human-face-aged...
        
       | echelon wrote:
       | Institutional source with photos:
       | 
       | https://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/2025/mar/fragment-human-face-aged...
       | 
       | Paper with many photos and figures:
       | 
       | https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-025-08681-0
        
         | mac3n wrote:
         | now, run that through an AI face de-ager!
        
         | ghostly_s wrote:
         | Oh, facial _bones_. Now Im less confused. I think the layman
         | would call that a skull fragment.
        
           | dzdt wrote:
           | Agreed. I was the same place: do they mean an imprint of a
           | face? Or a partially preserved ancient artwork? No, they mean
           | fossilised bone fragments comprising upper mouth and
           | cheekbone areas of a human skull.
        
           | BrenBarn wrote:
           | Yeah I was confused as well. "Face" isn't really a body part,
           | it's more of a perceptual unit. It's just a piece of the
           | front of someone's head.
        
       | erellsworth wrote:
       | They don't look a day over 900,000 years.
        
       | mjd wrote:
       | Insert Joan Rivers joke here
        
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       (page generated 2025-03-26 23:02 UTC)