[HN Gopher] Samsung CEO Jong-hee Han has died
___________________________________________________________________
Samsung CEO Jong-hee Han has died
Author : ksec
Score : 244 points
Date : 2025-03-25 13:04 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.engadget.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.engadget.com)
| rm_-rf_slash wrote:
| Heart attack at 63. What a shame. Guy worked at the company
| longer than I've been alive and all he has to show for it is an
| inheritance and obituary. Makes you wonder what we're working so
| hard for.
| mathgladiator wrote:
| It's a good question.
|
| My home was recently destroyed by fire (not a total loss of
| dwelling, but 95% of contents due to smoke and water), and I'm
| quitting tech to accept being a rancher and body builder.
|
| I love tech, but tech doesn't love me. So, #yolo on to the next
| thing.
| avandekleut wrote:
| Good luck! Your username suits you.
| mathgladiator wrote:
| Thanks.
|
| I love math, and I regret not being able to usefully use it
| more. I don't regret leaving academia, but life is a
| mystery.
|
| The next chapter feels... good and right.
| par wrote:
| would love to follow your progress if you're going to be
| publicly blogging it (would be ironic, i know.) Also, really
| sorry for your loss. Was it the palisades fire?
| mathgladiator wrote:
| I thought about doing a youtube channel, honestly. Both as
| a parody and a progress.
|
| It's strange. I will probably get more love for making a
| video about my future barndo than my tech projects.
|
| It was an electrical fire due to a 20 year old wire and an
| external flood light that has never worked.
| Imustaskforhelp wrote:
| Sorry for your loss.
|
| But may I ask, about the comment "I love tech, but tech
| doesn't love me"
|
| Where does this really arise from?
|
| I have some theories and feel free to tell me which one is
| the right one:- 1)Does this arise from the fact that tech is
| excessively used to create AI coder assistants to take the
| coders out in the first place
|
| 2)Does this arise from the fact that you feel as if you are a
| working machine in a cog, like most of what coders do in tech
| is unethical or useless in terms of human resourcefulness
| (asking because I saw one hackernews post about it some day
| where the guy was a microsoft engineer working on some
| project that he believed to have no impact other than
| surveillance)
|
| Because these were the two theories as to why you might feel
| like that way. And I am genuinely interested in what you
| believe.
|
| Curious for your response!
| nashashmi wrote:
| Creators of tech vs users of tech are very different
| mindsets. My guess is the creators culture is not something
| you can just learn and work with. There is an inherent
| egotistical nature in the creator. And sometimes that is a
| difficult situation to work with .
| tmpz22 wrote:
| Not OP but the business of western tech places absolute
| minimum value on individuals and relationship building.
| It's all short term gain at the expense of all else. I'd
| expect the average tech employee to live shorter less
| fulfilled lives despite their wealth.
|
| [1]: What makes a good life lessons from the longest study
| on happiness (Harvard) - https://www.ted.com/talks/robert_w
| aldinger_what_makes_a_good...
|
| [2]: The secret to living longer may be your social life -
| https://www.ted.com/talks/susan_pinker_the_secret_to_living
| _...
| organsnyder wrote:
| That may be true in many (even most) places, but it's not
| universal. I've found the most success when I'm able to
| build relationships, even at large well-known tech
| companies.
|
| That being said, I strongly believe that it's _never_
| wise to find fulfillment solely--or even primarily--in
| vocation. Absolutely try to build a career that is life-
| giving, but there is so much joy and meaning to be found
| outside of work. We thrive in community.
| gorbachev wrote:
| You may build relationships with people you work closely
| with. I've certainly done that at multiple workplaces.
|
| However, that doesn't mean anything when someone whom
| you've never even spoken to decides shareholders need
| 0.5% more profit and you gotta go.
| vel0city wrote:
| > the business of western tech places absolute minimum
| value on individuals and relationship building
|
| It's not just the businesses; it's the workers as well.
| How many comments have you seen here of tech workers
| making a point that people in the office are not and will
| never be considered friends, and they're 100% not
| interested in having any kind of relationship with
| coworkers?
| mathgladiator wrote:
| The simple version is that I'm a perfectionist that cares
| about deep understanding, and I had a good career that fit
| me well with distributed systems. However, at core, I'm
| curious and passionate in a way that requires management to
| smooth me over.
|
| So, I didn't want to be in big tech anymore since the game
| to play kind of sucks. No matter what "they" tell you, at a
| certain point, every company drains real creativity for one
| reason or another.
|
| I love coding, and I can even play the strategy game at the
| higher level (I 'retired' as a 'senior principal'). So, I
| could have a very cushy life in big tech, but my heart is
| to build and tinker.
|
| Low and behold, I decided to wander and build a thing that
| I cared about. I built https://www.adama-platform.com/ ,
| but I could never really get traction without in person
| friends. Honestly, I wanted to wander and build, but I
| found myself in a field alone with a lot of ideas.
|
| The sheer effort to promote new ideas is... exhausting.
| It's just a stream of failure after failure after failure,
| and then my home was destroyed. I literally ran out of a
| burning building, and my priorities changed.
|
| Now, I could probably recover my ideas since I was
| preparing a new marketing push and try to meet developers
| where the are ( https://adamawww2.adama.games/ ). The idea
| was to let my ideas power the stranger topological
| scenarios (like cron jobs). And, given my background, I
| could probably have credible success raising funds around
| "real time infrastructure" / "pub sub" / "gateway". The
| problem there is then I recreate the problem I was
| escaping, so why bother with that.
|
| So, now I'm going to just build a barndo with a full gym
| and get super duper fit. I honestly think doing pull ups
| will make me feel 10x better than accomplishing anything in
| tech.
| mathgladiator wrote:
| also, to prove my feelings. I tell HN that I'm quiting
| tech and I get a bunch of points. I post about my shit,
| and I mostly got nothing. (and yes, HN wasn't the primary
| place I tried to market, but still... it sucks hard)
|
| I did a 270 lb benchpress, and I felt better doing that
| then coding... So, I'm going from tech bro to gym bro.
| It's going to be wonderful.
| nashashmi wrote:
| [delayed]
| yesimahuman wrote:
| I sold my startup and got out of tech and I'm much happier.
| Didn't fully understand how miserable the whole industry and
| the long hours sitting at the computer were making me. Good
| luck with the new life!
| gardenhedge wrote:
| What was the startup?
| simantel wrote:
| It's in their profile.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| What are you doing now?
| yesimahuman wrote:
| Cliche but woodworking and working on my house! Been
| learning tons of new things that have nothing to do with
| coding. I'd probably get into rehabbing/flipping houses
| before I'd ever go back into tech
| Workaccount2 wrote:
| Just a heads up, this only works well if you have a nice
| cushion of cash to do it on.
|
| Someone with 30% tech ability will easily out-earn someone
| with 100% ranching ability. And have way more free time. And
| live way more comfortably.
|
| Don't be fooled, the greenest grass is in the tech sector
| (and finance too).
| jonnybgood wrote:
| Not everything is about how much money you'll make.
| scarface_74 wrote:
| Yes. But we all have an addiction to food and shelter.
| SirMaster wrote:
| You don't need much money to have food and shelter...
| ge96 wrote:
| That homesteader life
| rurp wrote:
| Most people obtain those just fine without a tech salary.
| amanaplanacanal wrote:
| In the US, only the poorest of the poor don't have
| shelter, and even they mostly have food.
| scarface_74 wrote:
| 13.5% is a small number?
|
| http://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/ag-and-food-
| statistics...
| WarOnPrivacy wrote:
| > In the US, only the poorest of the poor don't have
| shelter, and even they mostly have food.
|
| Me+kids spent a decade in hunger-level poverty while
| staying housed. We usually got basic living expenses
| covered and what was left over might buy a bag of white
| rice - but not always.
|
| Our situation was far from uncommon.
| bluGill wrote:
| Ranchers make far more money than you think. They have to
| manage years where they are losing $100,000 per month, but
| the good years they make more than enough to make up for
| that. The hard part is getting started. You can't make a
| ranch work on just a little bit of land, you need thousands
| of acres of land in an area where you can get to all those
| plots every day.
|
| Getting bank loans on that means most ranchers start at 20
| with a few acres (that is a ranching/farming hobby) and a
| full time job to pay the bills - the ranch itself isn't
| even paying for the land loans, but it is close and their
| job pays the rest. Then they build trust with the bank and
| buy more land as it becomes possible. At 40 they have paid
| off the initial land (or at least inflation means the
| payments are tiny in current money) and so they are
| generating enough income to quit the full time job and
| farm. At 60 they have paid off most of the land which is
| now worth millions and so are rich by any measure in ways
| most tech jobs cannot get to (though if you happen to be
| one of the lucky early people in in a successful startup
| you are doing much better, your odds as a rancher are
| probably better than that).
|
| Beware though that ranching is physically hard on the body.
| Farming is one of the most dangerous jobs humans do, there
| is a real risk you will die before you get rich. Even if
| you do get rich there is real risk that you will be in poor
| health and unable to do it. Or you could end up like my
| uncle who loved the ranch so much he basically never left
| it - he died with millions in the bank while wearing
| clothes he had been patching for 40 years.
| iwontberude wrote:
| But they have to actually do work, in tech we get to hang
| out and eat lunch and drink coffee together while we talk
| about stocks.
| nostrademons wrote:
| I figured that the best way to own a ranch is to start a
| successful tech company, sell it (or parts of it), buy a
| bunch of ranchland, and then hire ranch hands that always
| wanted to get into the business but didn't have the
| capital for it.
|
| That seems to be what all the tech billionaires do.
| Gates, Bezos, and several old-line tech company heirs are
| all big ranch holders.
| bluGill wrote:
| You run into the same problem of everyone else: there is
| only so much land and so you compete with everyone,
| including those ranch hands that want to get into it (and
| likely have their own holdings they are working when not
| on your shift). That they are working their own land
| means they have some ability to out compete you (though
| their lack of capital means you will have a much larger
| investment).
|
| Also many states have laws against corporate farmers that
| can get you.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| >At 60 they have paid off most of the land which is now
| worth millions and so are rich by any measure in ways
| most tech jobs cannot get to
|
| A person with the drive and intelligence to start
| ranching at 20 and put in 80 hours weeks in their youth
| could have done well in tech too, socking away $100k or
| more in tax advantaged retirement accounts, all the while
| having PTO and weekends.
|
| Also, most people like to leave near urban areas with
| access to airports and a variety of grocery stores and
| kids' activities and schools filled with kids of other
| high achievers.
| bluGill wrote:
| You can only put $38k/year into tax advantages accounts
| working for someone else - $20k in the 401k, $10k with a
| match (that would be a generous match, but not
| unrealistic), and $8k in an IRA. You can double it if you
| are married. Everything is is not tax advantaged. If you
| work for yourself there are other retirement laws.
|
| You can of course put as much as you want into real
| estate (which if you rent out can give a nice return), or
| other investments. However the tax advantages do not
| apply.
|
| Ranchers don't normally put anything into tax advantaged
| accounts, but they tend to put a large portion of their
| gross income into real estate. By 60 their take home pay
| is higher than tech and those large investments have
| grown to more than most in tech make.
|
| Urban and rural areas allow for different life styles.
| I've lived both and when I'm in one I miss the other.
| mathgladiator wrote:
| I'm going soft ranching as a hobby. Honestly, I want to
| get a few cattle which I control the inputs too 100% such
| that get 100% grass fed beef.
|
| My profit is primarily driving down my costs as much as
| possible such that I can become self sufficient.
|
| My wife and I are carnivores, so our diet is basically
| beef, butter, bacon, eggs. I'll start with raising
| chickens such that I can produce at least a dozen a day.
| Then I'll get beef, and I'll just buy bacon and butter.
|
| I'm designing my barndo right now such that it has a
| simple living space for me and my wife, and then a big
| bro science gym where we can work out.
|
| It's the dream right now that I'm clinging too since I'm
| moving forward. I lost all my stuff, and I'm waiting for
| insurance adjuster. Fortunately, I had a very good career
| and I'm in my early 40s, and I'm going to different
| stuff. I've always wanted land, so I'm going to do it.
| It's going to be great! (or, I'm deeply traumatized and
| using optimism to deny the reality of escaping a burning
| building :shrug: )
|
| Regardless, we should be friends as I love to learn more
| this. My hope is that I can spend a few years recreating
| all the 4H knowledge, network with farmers, and just
| learn new stuff which... isn't tech.
| rurp wrote:
| I think their whole point was that it's not just about the
| money to them. If they love being outside and working with
| their hands far more than being in an office and can make a
| living ranching it seems like a smart move to me,
| regardless of the salary difference.
| Workaccount2 wrote:
| Yes, there are people like that. Their numbers are
| greater than zero, but not much more.
|
| Overwhelmingly though, people are romanticizing an
| existence where the only contact they have with it is
| through a conduit of financial security and drive by
| experience. They like hiking and once did an Air bnb
| experience weekend on a farm.
| mathgladiator wrote:
| Yeah, but I already mowed that grass. It was nice, and I
| could retire in the burbs... now, I'm just going to give up
| on civilization and become a rancher. Maybe, I'll start an
| egg subscription business for my friends that is 100% cash
| base. I don't know.
|
| It's going to be great.
| freedomben wrote:
| In 3 to 5 years once AI is doing most of our tech jobs, we
| may look back on this comment as someone with laser vision
| mathgladiator wrote:
| Maybe. I was using AI via API, and I was building a tool
| chain to build a social network with PHP... I realized that
| I could focus on the product, but then I realized I was
| solving a problem which is social in nature rather than
| technical.
|
| I am going to get in absolute peak shape, get a few cattle,
| raise some chickens to produce eggs, and maybe study to
| become a personal trainer.
| fullshark wrote:
| Status seeking, cultural conditioning, an innate desire to be
| valuable to your community/loved ones. Certainly don't do it to
| consume more, which is what basically all economic models
| assume.
| onlyrealcuzzo wrote:
| The guy was making ~$4M per year.
|
| Presumably he was living a quite nice and comfortable life.
| xtracto wrote:
| This makes me think... how is it that in 2025, a 63 year old
| super rich guy can die of a heart attack.
|
| By now, we should have some sort of portable appliance a
| medication that would save us from sudden heart attack.
| geodel wrote:
| Unless there is zero probability someone rich can die of
| heart attack even if they are billionaire. Overall they are
| dying less from preventable/lifestyle diseases which is
| reasonable expectation.
| slightwinder wrote:
| Did he? Money is no guarantee for happiness or comfort.
| Considering his position and how young he died, he likely had
| a very stressful live, and little time for his personal
| enjoyments. At least, he hadn't enough time to take care of
| his own health.
|
| My assumption is, he worked hard to gain money, and died
| before he reached the point where he could fully use it for
| his personal benefit. Which is indeed sad.
| SirMaster wrote:
| Do you actually know anything about his life? I don't know
| how you can make that assumption at all.
| TheBigSalad wrote:
| Absolutely wild how people will just make up a story to
| fill in the gaps in their knowledge, and believe it.
| slightwinder wrote:
| No, I don't, which is why I wrote it's "my assumption".
| What I know is the life of managers, high performers,
| Korean culture, and that he died too young. People in
| that position usually have an awful work/live-balance,
| too much stress, not enough time for their own
| personality and self-fulfillment because of a toxic
| environment.
|
| The average life expectancy in South Korea seems 82.68
| years. So he died nearly 20 years too early, with wealth
| which should allow him to outlive the expectancy by 20
| years instead. So yeah, my assumption is he had all the
| money, but not enough fun.
| geodel wrote:
| He reached to top of his profession, high social status,
| decent money. Maybe it is USA/western obsession with
| longevity. From where I am, people would totally fine if
| someone died in 60s after such high level
| accomplishments.
| tonyhart7 wrote:
| "Makes you wonder what we're working so hard for."
|
| he living a lavish live and probably didn't have to think about
| money for his life and his descendant
| screye wrote:
| Yep.
|
| Jong-Hee was self-made, and did not come from a Chaebol family.
| Samsung is controlled by the (founding) Lee family, and as of
| 2025, Samsung's executive chairman (Lee Jae-yong) is the family
| patriarch.
|
| Samsung might not have been his baby, but glad he could taste
| the very pinnacle of power in SK before death came knocking.
| moritonal wrote:
| That's a very pessimistic view on the role of work. Whilst
| possibly true, it's equally possible that his decent choices
| allowed Samsung to succeed in areas, and in turn recently
| employ more people, who in turn could live safe, stable
| fulfilling lives. I think people forget how bad a chaotic life
| without safety nets is for most people.
|
| Of course, this is all a hunch, I hear Samsung is quite a good
| company.
| chirau wrote:
| What do you mean 'all he has to show for it is an inheritance
| and obituary'? What else was he supposed to have or anyone else
| for that matter? I'd think inheritance covers a lot at the very
| least.
| PaulHoule wrote:
| I mean, everybody dies.
| Imustaskforhelp wrote:
| I mean, maybe he meant to point out that south korea as a
| country focuses way too much on this work culture and he
| might've sacrificed his precious family time / just became a
| "well off cog" in this huge machine.
|
| Maybe he was passionate. Maybe he felt obliged / motivated
| even to prove to others who helped him get to CEO that he was
| the right choice.
|
| But in the end , like all people , he died.
|
| In the end , all he had after all his efforts were
| inheritance and obituary.
|
| We might never know if his final moments were full of regret
| or full of acceptance & happiness.
|
| Death is just one breath away. Knocking on our doors. Our
| fragile egos can't understand death but it very desperately
| tries to.
|
| I am not sure why but I really wish to end my comment with
| the famous quote by Albert Camus, "One must imagine Sisyphus
| happy." (Not sure, if it really relates to the other
| paragraphs in this comment but I for one felt like that so I
| am just writing it out here)
| rm_-rf_slash wrote:
| Not SK in particular but the point of all of this in
| general, especially for those who have reached such
| heights.
|
| 63 is a young age to die in a rich country, especially for
| a corporate titan. Warren Buffett has been at the helm of
| Berkshire Hathaway an entire-my-lifetime of years between
| him and Jong-hee Han.
|
| Gabe Newell famously has yachts around the world, explores
| the oceans and seems to be enjoying the fruits of his labor
| without kicking the bucket immediately after the release of
| Half Life 2.
|
| Chuck Feeney made himself a multi billionaire and
| impressively gave it all away to charity within his
| lifetime. While so many plutocrats would "pledge" their
| wealth after death, Feeney had the stones to do it while he
| drew breath, earning him a high seat in the pantheon of
| philanthropy.
|
| So what's the point of all this work if it buys you an
| early grave? I'm sure he would have enjoyed a comfortable
| and lengthy retirement with his family, if he could've
| gotten there.
| Imustaskforhelp wrote:
| Beautifully Written! I think this was sort of what I was
| also saying, though you wrote it out more succint.
|
| In fact, I might argue that why not take this step
| further! Like yes, gabe newell has his yachts and he's
| having fun. But I might argue that its not his yachts
| that we aspire. Its his freedom. And I think its this
| freedom of having fun which we need to maximize (let's
| try to df/dx it ,jk) and in my opinion, you don't need
| tooo much money (100 Million-esque) to do that.
|
| I think even a million - 10 Mill can be great, but even
| better could be something like how the 4 hour work week
| recommends. Though, to be honest, my issue with the 4h
| work week is that you are forced to leave the comfort of
| job security for once and he says that you can enter any
| time soon but I genuinely believe that the current job
| market is rough, so that's the only caveat I have.
|
| For that, I think that you have to be frugal and have a
| huge emergency fund. Something which suits me quite well
| actually.
| Imustaskforhelp wrote:
| I actually think we should discuss such things more
| publicly.
|
| So many people glorify their role in the cog. Not
| realising that nobody cares.
| jpc0 wrote:
| This is most definitely a viewpoint on life.
|
| I've also worked with people with an entirely different
| viewpoint and I highly respected them and don't think
| they lived any less of a life, in fact they are greatly
| missed and leave behind a legacy.
|
| The architype of those people, "I'm not slowing down,
| while I can still do my work I'll go on until they take
| me out of here feet first. That's why you guys are around
| me, I expect you to call me out when you see me
| slipping." And they really did get carried out feet
| first. Their memorials were attend by thousands willingly
| and they are still respected and an inspiration to those
| that worked with them.
|
| Neither is wrong. Life isn't binary either. If someone is
| happy who are we to judge their life.
| StefanBatory wrote:
| Journey, not the destination I'd say. I'm sure he must have
| enjoyed being CEO in the end.
|
| You are a leader of one of the most influential companies in
| the world and most likely the most influential in Korea.
| Imustaskforhelp wrote:
| Maybe the author is questioning if the journey was worth it?
|
| Did he feel in the moments leading up to his death ,that his
| influence was used in the most effective ways or did he feel
| regret about the ways he used his influence.
|
| To be honest, I think money can have diminishing returns
| after some point, and maybe with his CEO , he got a lot of
| responsibilities which might have really stressed him out
| (which potentially , increases heart attack rate)
| adamlgerber wrote:
| Building and growing a business of any size is probably one of
| the most intellectually stimulating lives possible. People work
| for years without any where close to his amount of engagement
| with the world.
| awongh wrote:
| Maybe you're not familiar with the Chaebol system in Korea, but
| the leadership of Samsung is like some kind of modern-day
| monarchy-(not necessarily the CEO but the founding Lee family
| are royalty in the inheritance sense)- Samsung the company
| exists as a sort of independent nation-state that drives the
| Korean economy. (this guy was in charge of about 1/4 of the GDP
| of the entire economy of Korea)
|
| Saying "all he has to show for it" is like saying all Jimmy
| Carter got was 4 years of stress.
| cheschire wrote:
| Well that and over 30 years more life...
| whycome wrote:
| And the majority of that with a loving wife! (she died in
| 2023 at 96. He died in 2024 at 100).
| noisy_boy wrote:
| A life spent improving human lives and promoting peace.
| lordfrito wrote:
| > Makes you wonder what we're working so hard for
|
| You're working for the life you get to live in the hours
| inbetween that you're not working.
|
| The world judges the guy by being the CEO of Samsung. However
| he judges his life by what he got on the in between. Hopefully
| by his standards he lived a full life, loving family,
| experiences, etc.
| trueismywork wrote:
| Work is worship
| maxloh wrote:
| It's common for Asian people, especially Asian men, to work
| like hell for their parents and children, and not really think
| about what other life choices they have.
|
| That's caused by social values and expectations - people think
| you are disrespectful to your parents if you don't provide them
| and carry on the family name.
|
| That happened to my dad too. He worked really hard for his
| family, but as his child, it is crystal clear to me that he
| doesn't enjoy childcare.
|
| The situation is improving as the new generation puts more
| focus on their own life. But it's still a long way to go.
| tw1984 wrote:
| > It's common for Asian people
|
| It is only common in Northeast Asia (China, Japan and Korea).
| ctxc wrote:
| +India :)
| acheong08 wrote:
| Southeast as well (Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, etc). I
| don't know much about South and West Asian cultures
| thehappypm wrote:
| Sidebar but don't those countries usually get called " East
| Asia"? Northeast Asia would more accurately be Siberia
| rayiner wrote:
| Is that an improvement, or is it just more of a western
| mentality? I was raised by asian parents (who had no life of
| their own), and my wife was raised by Anglo American parents
| (who "put more focus on their own life"). And from my
| perspective as a child, I'd rather have my upbringing than
| her's.
|
| And I'm happy to pay it forward and do for my kids what my
| parents did for me. I think "choices" are vastly overrated. I
| don't think my kids would be happy if I quit my high paying
| job to pursue my dreams or whatever. Not that there's
| anything else I would want to do! Part of what makes the
| Asian mentality work is that you avoid "grass is greener on
| the other side" thinking that will just leave you
| discontented. For all the talk of "choice"--Americans don't
| really that happiness is itself a choice. You can choose to
| be happy doing what you have to do.
| boringg wrote:
| Having seen both perspectives I think a happy medium is
| possible. The self centered nature of some parents of the
| western societies doesn't really end up helping out the
| children whereas the complete abandonment of self for the
| sake of family also has limitation.
| yhavr wrote:
| > I don't think my kids would be happy if I quit my high
| paying job to pursue my dreams or whatever
|
| Wasting life on a lifestyle one doesn't enjoy, just to
| raise another generation of life-wasters? I don't get this
| ponzi scheme at all.
| nostrademons wrote:
| I'm from a similar bicultural household as rayiner,
| though from comment history I'm guessing I come down more
| on the American side. I've got enough of a background in
| both cultures to parse out and explain the differences
| though.
|
| It's not perceived as "wasting a life" or "not enjoying
| it" by the parent, and oftentimes not by the child
| either. Rather, it's different values, different time
| preferences, and different conceptions of self. Western
| cultures have a conception of self that is very rigid and
| individualistic. There's a hard boundary between _your_
| wants and _everyone else 's_ wants, and you're
| responsible only for your own desire. This is encoded in
| our structures of law, in contemporary business culture,
| in the concept of individual rights, in the goals of
| Western psychotherapy, and in the relationships between
| family members that we view as normal.
|
| In most traditional Asian cultures, there is much more of
| a soft boundary between members of the same family. You
| are expected to consider the welfare of _everyone_ in the
| family. And that leads to a sense of obligation between
| parent and child, and then between child and parent as
| they get older, and between sibling to sibling when it
| comes to dealing with the outside world. There is a
| comparatively stronger boundary between the family and
| the state, eg. many Asian cultures feel like it 's okay
| to snub the rules of the wider society for the benefit of
| the family, while in American society this is considered
| grift, nepotism, and corruption.
|
| Likewise, there is a difference in time perception.
| Americans have a hard boundary between the present and
| the future or past. This shows up in popular culture
| through lines like in _Rent_ ( "No day but today", "How
| do you feel today? Then why choose fear?", "Forget
| regret, your life is yours to live") or through popular
| aphorisms to "Let go of the past", "Live for the
| present", "The future is yours to write", etc. Asian
| cultures often consider the past, present, and future as
| one: the past informs the present, which becomes the
| future, and the "you" of today will soon become the you
| of tomorrow. As a result, it is perfectly natural to
| preference "future you" over "present you". And _that_
| shows up through things like savings rates (where Asians
| are consistently higher than Americans), long-term
| investments, business continuity, and willingness to
| invest in family and raise the next generation. Denying
| present pleasures for future gains is not a lifestyle
| that they don 't enjoy; it's simply being smart, and the
| enjoyment comes from the anticipation of the future
| payoff.
|
| There's a good illustration of the difference in the two
| cultures from two movies that both came out in 2018/2019,
| _Crazy Rich Asians_ vs. _The Farewell_. Crazy Rich Asians
| is foremost a Chinese- _American_ film. When the
| grandmother (who is considered the villain in the film)
| smugly says "We know how to build things that last",
| she's exemplifying the values and time preferences of Old
| China. And the film's climax and resolution is all about
| choosing _present_ happiness over an _indeterminate
| future_ , basically a victory of American values over
| traditional Chinese ones. _The Farewell_ , however, more
| closely depicts the web of obligations in a traditional
| Chinese family, and is comedic to American audiences
| simply because the farces that the family goes through to
| preserve the feelings of the matriarch make no sense to
| Americans. Sure enough, _Crazy Rich Asians_ was a smash
| hit in the U.S. but an utter flop in China, while _The
| Farewell_ was a sleeper hit in America but did very well
| with Chinese audiences.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| I am probably one of the very few people on HN who came
| from a very similar household to rayiner but descended
| from pre-1965 south Asians in the US so I can tell you
| that all his suppositions do not necessarily hold for
| that group
| rayiner wrote:
| I'm sure that's true. Who were the pre-1965 south asians?
| selimthegrim wrote:
| My father's mother's family. My mother is an 80s
| immigrant.
| rayiner wrote:
| Sorry, I meant how did they come over? I don't know there
| were any pre-1965 desis.
| pcwalton wrote:
| The emphasis on filial piety in east Asian cultures is
| undeniable, but I think this thread is overlooking the
| significant complication that east Asian countries also
| have some of the lowest birth rates in the world.
| Americans have _more_ kids than the Japanese, for
| instance--not fewer--and birth rates across southeast
| Asia are collapsing, including in China.
| rayiner wrote:
| Great summary. I'd add that it's largely unconscious.
| It's like, fish are happy swimming. Why wouldn't they be?
|
| I will have to check out the Farewell, didn't know about
| it!
| jajko wrote:
| Raising kids well is extremely rewarding. Plus its very
| hard. But those rewards, you can't find them anywhere
| else. That happiness and fulfillment, dare I say,
| neither.
|
| I've tried it before having kids - had total blast in
| European Alps - climbing, alpinism, ski touring, skiing,
| via ferratas, paragliding, but also ie diving in exotic
| remote places half around the world. ~5 bigger vacations
| per year. Traveled all continents except Antarctica
| backapcking style, ie 6 months in India and Nepal. Life-
| changing experiences, truly, but that backpacking part
| was the key to its intensity.
|
| I've met folks who had way more intense lives than mine,
| since I was still working 100% and did all this during
| weekends, vacations and after work (or in-between work
| for long trips). Mostly they were some form of mountain
| guides who traveled world off-season. But even those
| folks, when they see me now with what seems like well
| raised kids so far, damn are they envious. I mean life
| that you hardly see on some 'influencer' instagram, those
| folks have no reason to brag about it publicly to
| compensate for something bad or trying to milk users for
| money. And most of them ends up in parenthood anyway for
| better or worse.
|
| All those experiences means very little to nothing
| compared to experiencing my kids and see them growing up.
| Yes the hard parts are very hard and you question
| yourself and your whole life, but the amazing parts...
| mere words can't describe them. They give life to one's
| meaning that nothing else does, not even close. There is
| nobility to take hits for closest ones you love, to
| endure hardships, it builds and keeps character strong.
| Overcoming all properly hard challenges does that, do it
| for 2+ decades and it shows.
|
| I am not claiming everybody should have kids, far from
| it, maybe not even half of population IMHO (I know, not
| sustainable, but we have overpopulation now so thats an
| afterthought). Plenty of broken people around, either
| inherited mental issues or ones acquired during childhood
| or even adulthood via traumas or drugs. Some could raise
| kids somehow but most are bad parents and then it
| propagates further down the line.
| rayiner wrote:
| What do you "enjoy"--and more importantly, _why_ do you
| think you enjoy it? I suspect enjoyment is mostly
| socialized, and we enjoy or don't enjoy what our culture
| tells us should be enjoyable or not enjoyable.
|
| Prior to my dad's generation, virtually everyone in my
| home country was a subsistence farmer. Most people still
| are. Are their lives less "enjoyable" than some childless
| millennial pursing his dreams of traveling the world?
|
| I don't think that, on average, the asians I know (south
| asians, to be fair) are less happy than the Americans I
| know. They just derive enjoyment and contentment from
| different sources.
| makeitdouble wrote:
| > Not that there's anything else I would want to do!
|
| That's the key part IMHO. If you're happy with the balance
| you landed on, why not.
|
| I think some kids really benefit from the traditional Asian
| style, and they reach levels that would be hard to reach
| otherwise. The main issue is not all kids are in that boat,
| and they'll need to be miserable for a pretty long time
| before the parents change course and try alternative
| approaches (if they ever do).
|
| Only the parents can decide if they want to force the
| square peg into a perfect round hole, and if the kid will
| thank them later or hate them for life (or jump through a
| window, shortening the waiting time). Even in Asia not all
| parents want to take that risk.
| selimthegrim wrote:
| > I think some kids really benefit from the traditional
| Asian style, and they reach levels that would be hard to
| reach otherwise.
|
| I absolutely agree.
| rayiner wrote:
| > That's the key part IMHO. If you're happy with the
| balance you landed on, why not.
|
| But I would go further and say that lots of american kids
| who feel aimless would be happier if they were raised in
| a culture that tells them what to do and then socially
| rewards them for doing it. The efficient market fairy is
| a bad way of thinking about how the economy works, but
| it's also a bad way of thinking about how people work.
|
| I agree that, in asian society, some portion of kids
| suffer from being a square peg that parents try to shove
| in a round hole. But I think Americans overestimate the
| share of the population that's square pegs, and
| underestimate the share of the population that would be
| happier being told what shape they are and what hole they
| fit into.
| KPGv2 wrote:
| > or is it just more of a western mentality
|
| Where do you get the idea that "have kids and treat them as
| a side thought" is a Western mentality? In the West, we
| usually use prophylactics to avoid kids until we want them.
| That's why the birth rate is so low.
| maxloh wrote:
| The contradiction of those traditional life goals:
| providing for parents and having descendents, isn't about
| abandoning one's children. Rather, it's about making those
| choices willingly and consciously, and without sacrificing
| your own well-being.
|
| Many Asian parents treat their children as their
| "retirement plan", which places a significant "debt" on
| those children after they graduate from college (or high
| school). They're also often expected to have at least one
| male descendant to carry on the family name, who, in
| return, is expected to ensure their financial support after
| they retire, just like how they did to their parents.
|
| This system is an infinite loop that places a massive
| financial burden on everyone in society, consuming their
| lives, and ultimately benefiting no one. It's good to
| provide for loved ones and raise children, but both are
| significant commitments and should be considered choices,
| not obligations.
| hnfong wrote:
| IMHO, the "western" style of retirement, i.e. using
| _other people 's_ children's money to fund the elderly's
| retirement doesn't look that great either...
| boringg wrote:
| More like you are pushing your perspective out here. You think
| he didn't enjoy being in charge of an organization that was
| building some remarkable products and pushing the possibility
| of what humanity can build?
|
| I think maybe you would prefer sitting on a beach doing nothing
| but I bet you this person enjoyed what they were doing on the
| whole.
| Nifty3929 wrote:
| Some people are working as hard as they can for humanity in
| general. It's still "for them" in the sense that this is what
| drives and motivates them. But we're all the winners. These are
| the folks that work long hours at the expense of their own
| health and family relationships. These are the folks that
| people ask about "don't they already have enough money" - when
| it's not about the money at all. It's about doing and creating
| and building something better for humanity. Sometimes these are
| our best corporate leaders, or government officials, or
| scientists, or even revolutionaries and cultural leaders.
|
| I'm very grateful for these people.
| eswat wrote:
| Pretty sure he lived a life past just having "to show for it is
| an inheritance and obituary." He wasn't an IC drone and this
| probably makes more sense if you're in Korea.
|
| Some people die sooner than expected but that doesn't mean
| their yardstick should be measured in quantity of years. What
| about quality?
| SirMaster wrote:
| >Makes you wonder what we're working so hard for.
|
| Plenty of people enjoy the work they do...
| whycome wrote:
| > Based on the notice Samsung published, Han's co-CEO Young-Hyun
| Jun is now the sole CEO of the company. Jun, who also heads
| Samsung's semiconductor business, was appointed as Han's co-CEO
| in November 2024.
|
| I guess he had been co-CEO since November. That's about as smooth
| of a transition one could hope for? (As far as the company
| welfare goes.) My thoughts are with his family. An abrupt loss
| like this must be painful.
| douglee650 wrote:
| This is Engadget's error, but the name would be Y(o)ung Hyun-
| Jun, where Yung is the last name, and Hyun-Jun is his
| "first+middle" name
| toomuchtodo wrote:
| Related:
|
| _Samsung Electronics Says Co-CEO Han Jong-Hee Has Died at 63_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43466951 - Mar 2025 (no
| comments)
| rickdeckard wrote:
| Just for clarification, Samsung has two CEO's:
|
| The deceased Han Jong-hee was a Co-CEO and Vice-Chairman, just
| like Jun Young-hyun who now remains as the sole CEO.
|
| This was not a planned transition or coincidence, Samsung usually
| had 3 parallel CEO's since 2013 and downsized to two CEO's in
| 2021, all of those being "Vice-Chairman".
|
| On top there is still the Samsung Electronics Chairman, Lee Jae-
| yong...
| yard2010 wrote:
| I wonder if they had 3 CEOs because the name means 3 stars in
| korean
| moandcompany wrote:
| The company name of "Samsung" originates from the founder's
| admiration of Japanese companies such as Mitsubishi, known as
| "keiretsu" and their place in its economy; he hoped that his
| company would also endure as a shining symbol in the sky,
| like stars. Mitsubishi means three stars in Japanese
| language.
|
| Samsung the company started as something resembling a dry
| goods market.
| themaninthedark wrote:
| Pendant correction: The bishi in Mitsubishi translates more
| closely to rhombus or diamond.
| aneidon wrote:
| pedant correction: pedant ;)
| tempestn wrote:
| Maybe it was a deep cut pun: diamond pendant?
| jessekv wrote:
| Brilliant, regardless.
| kurthr wrote:
| I thought Mitsubishi was San Ling for Three Diamonds?
| Seems to go better with their log.
|
| Mitsuboshi, San tsuXing , would I think be for three stars,
| particularly the stars of Orion's belt.
|
| "According to Samsung's founder, the meaning of the Korean
| hanja Samsung (San Xing ) is three stars."
|
| https://news.samsung.com/global/20-things-you-didnt-know-
| abo...
| moandcompany wrote:
| Technically correct is the best kind of correct.
| Symbolically, in this context, they were seen as diamonds
| in the sky, aka stars :)
| nine_k wrote:
| Ling is "water chestnut", a nut that actually is spiky,
| the <> figures are a stylization of that.
|
| Ling Xing , that is, "water chestnut-shaped" is indeed
| used for what's called "diamond-shaped" in English, maybe
| hence the confusion.
| m4rtink wrote:
| I thought Mitsubishi means 3 diamonds ?
|
| https://www.mitsubishielectric.com/en/about/history/logo/lo
| g...
| moandcompany wrote:
| JH Han came from Samsung's Visual Display (tvs, smart tvs)
| business unit which is part of Samsungs larger consumer
| electronics business which includes things such as home
| appliances. Mobile electronics such as Galaxy brand smart
| phones are another business, and Han was promoted to lead the
| businesses spanning all of those groups, which was (re)named to
| called "Device Experience (DX)". Samsung's semiconductor
| fabrication and component businesses have normally had a
| separate "CEO" from the consumer electronics finished products
| businesses (aka. "SET")
| swah wrote:
| I added this heuristic to my mind "Do not assume you will live
| until 90" when my dad also passed on his 60s. But he was a
| smoker. Until then I was thinking all my uncles that died in
| their 60s was because of heavy drinking (bottle of whisky a day
| or something)
| piyuv wrote:
| I see all these rich-famous people, having all the money for
| all the best care in the world, dying in 50s-60s and I get more
| and more anxious.
| norir wrote:
| I have the opposite reaction.
| piyuv wrote:
| Because of their stress levels and possible
| smoking/drinking/drugs? I don't buy into "yeah they're
| rich/famous but that's a lot of stress" narrative.
| dymk wrote:
| In the case of a CEO of a major South Korean company, I
| could believe that stress could have contributed to his
| heart attack. But for specifically the actors/musicians
| category of the rich and famous, it seems like drugs
| tends to be a limiting factor on lifespan.
| NooneAtAll3 wrote:
| I suspect it's more of "the witch is dead/the rich is
| dead"
| jillyboel wrote:
| If you want to die you don't have to wait for it
| astrange wrote:
| Healthcare doesn't do very much compared to not doing the
| unhealthy things in the first place, and being rich lets you
| buy a lot of unhealthy things.
| woodrowbarlow wrote:
| on the flipside -- avoiding unhealthy things, especially
| environmental health factors like carcinogens and
| microplastics, often requires a certain level of wealth.
| jjmarr wrote:
| The "wellness" industry is a way to scam rich people. You
| _want_ to believe you can spend your money to opt out of
| environmental toxins by shopping at Erewhon. But you 're
| still going to be exposed to all of this stuff unless you
| live in a hermetically sealed bubble and never leave. Or
| if you get rid of toxins in your area, an action which
| affects everyone.
|
| The hard truth is that pollution and environmental toxins
| affect everyone present in that environment. Taxes and
| government regulation are going to do far more for the
| wealthy than individual changes in shopping habits.
| fc417fc802 wrote:
| > Or if you get rid of toxins in your area
|
| Moving can often accomplish that depending on the
| selected location.
| noncoml wrote:
| Healthcare can buy you regular screenings to catch problem
| much earlier on, when there is better chance to cure them
| lvl155 wrote:
| Apparently he died at his daughter's wedding. That's an awful way
| to go.
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| Could be worse. At least he got to live to see his daughter get
| married before logging out. I call that a win.
| cinntaile wrote:
| What a great way to remember your wedding!
| coolThingsFirst wrote:
| cut him some slack he didn't think that far
|
| it's HN.
| netsharc wrote:
| But every wedding anniversary of the daughter will be
| bittersweet...
| dan_can_code wrote:
| A yearly reminder of the most painful and beautiful moments
| that can happen in a human life. Damn.
| FirmwareBurner wrote:
| Everyone dies eventually, it's inevitable, you can't
| schedule your parents death when it's convenient for you.
| It's just how it is, and we're all adults, why try to
| sugarcoat it?
| moandcompany wrote:
| I don't know much about his family life, but it's very
| plausible that he spent more time working during his lifetime
| than with his family, and this is a good take. Considering
| the company's state of affairs, I would assume he was under a
| tremendous amount of work-related stress during the last few
| years, if not the majority of his career, peaking in this
| role.
| geodel wrote:
| I would assume he would be in work related stress for
| decades but daughter's wedding preparation, considering how
| stressful asian weddings are, pushed him over the edge.
| lqet wrote:
| I always shudder at the following: all three brothers of
| Charlotte Roche [0] were killed in a car crash on their way to
| her wedding.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Roche
| itsoktocry wrote:
| Johnny Gaudreau, NHL star, and his brother Matthew were hit
| and killed by a drunk driver while in New Jersey for their
| sister's wedding last summer.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Gaudreau
| rntksi wrote:
| Just a week or so ago, Samsung chairman Lee Jae-yong told
| everyone in Samsung that there's only a "do or die" attitude.
|
| https://www.kedglobal.com/leadership-management/newsView/ked...
| AzzyHN wrote:
| Guess he made his choice
| tartoran wrote:
| If it's a suicide you may be onto something. If died of
| natural causes though, it's a poor taste joke.
| anotherevan wrote:
| Probably in poor taste either way.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2025-03-25 23:02 UTC)