[HN Gopher] VGGT: Visual Geometry Grounded Transformer
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       VGGT: Visual Geometry Grounded Transformer
        
       Author : xnx
       Score  : 129 points
       Date   : 2025-03-25 12:59 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (github.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (github.com)
        
       | davedx wrote:
       | I'd love to hear what the use cases are for this. I was looking
       | at Planet's website yesterday and although the technology is
       | fascinating, I do sometimes struggle to understand what people
       | actually do (commercially or otherwise) with the data? (Genuinely
       | not snark, this stuff's just not my field!)
        
         | imbusy111 wrote:
         | Architectural visualizations is one. For example, design phase
         | of remodelling your house would be much easier, if you had a 3D
         | reconstruction of the current state already available.
        
         | vessenes wrote:
         | This is a super useful utility -- until this there was nothing
         | fast and easy that you could dump say 30 quick camera photos of
         | a (room/object/place) into and get out a dense point cloud.
         | 
         | Instead you had to run all these separate pipelines inferring
         | camera location, etc. etc. before you could get any sort of 3D
         | information out of your photos. I'd guess this is going into
         | many many workflows where it will drop in replace a bunch of
         | jury-rigged pipelines.
        
         | cluckindan wrote:
         | Collision meshes for Gaussian splats
        
         | stevepotter wrote:
         | I'm working on a system that uses affordable hardware (iPhones)
         | to make orthopedic surgery easier and more precise. Among other
         | things, we have to track the position in space of surgical
         | tools like drills. Models like this can play a pivotal role in
         | that.
         | 
         | As someone mentioned, this is great for gaussian splatting,
         | which we also do.
        
         | Lerc wrote:
         | Seems like it would provide good data for training control nets
         | for image generation.
         | 
         | This would let you have any of the types if data that this
         | model can output be used as input for controlling image
         | generation.
        
         | the8472 wrote:
         | The depth maps and point clouds are useful in CGI to turn a 2D
         | image into a 3D environment which can then be incorporated into
         | a raytracing renderer. E.g. CAD-data based foreground object
         | placed in a generated environment.
        
       | maelito wrote:
       | Can it be used to build Google Earth like 3D scenes ?
        
       | Workaccount2 wrote:
       | More info and demos:
       | 
       | https://vgg-t.github.io/
        
         | bhouston wrote:
         | You are the hero! Thank you! The main post link should be
         | updated to this.
        
           | soulofmischief wrote:
           | And then everyone will ask for the source. :)
        
       | fallingmeat wrote:
       | video or it didn't happen.
        
         | GaggiX wrote:
         | There is literally a project page dedicated.
        
         | sebzim4500 wrote:
         | https://vgg-t.github.io/
        
       | sgnelson wrote:
       | I really wish someone would take this and combine it with true
       | photogrammetry to supplement the photogrammetry rather than just
       | try to replace traditional photogrammetry.
       | 
       | This type of thing would be the killer app for phone based 3d
       | scanners. You don't have to have a perfect scan because this will
       | fill in the holes for you.
        
       | jdthedisciple wrote:
       | Interesting idea, I applaud it.
       | 
       | However I just tried it on Huggingface and the result was ...
       | mediocre at best:
       | 
       | The resulting point cloud missed about half the features from the
       | input image.
        
         | porphyra wrote:
         | The final point cloud rendering might be due to a third party
         | renderer rather than VGGT itself.
        
       | porphyra wrote:
       | It is cool to see recent research doing this to reconstruct
       | scenes from fewer images, essentially using a transformer to
       | guess what the scene structure is. Previously, you needed a ton
       | of images and had to use COLMAP. All the fancy papers like NERF
       | and Gaussian Splatting used COLMAP in the backend, and while it
       | does a great job in terms of accuracy, it is slow and requires a
       | lot of images with known calibration.
        
       | w-m wrote:
       | I read the paper yesterday, would recommend it. Kudos to the
       | authors for getting to these results, and also for presenting
       | them in a polished way. It's nice to follow the arguments about
       | the alternating attention (global across all tokens vs only the
       | tokens per camera), the normalization (normalize the scene scale
       | - done in the data vs DUST3R, which normalizes in the network),
       | and the tokens (image tokens from DINOv2 + camera tokens +
       | additional register tokens, handling the first camera differently
       | as it becomes the frame of reference). The results are amazing,
       | and fine-tuning this model will be fun, e.g. for forward 3DGS
       | reconstruction, looking forward to this.
       | 
       | I'm sure getting to this point was quite difficult, and on the
       | project page you can read how it involved discussions with lots
       | and lots of smart and capable people. But there's no big "aha"
       | moment in the paper, so it feels like another hit for The Bitter
       | Lesson in the end: They used a giant bunch of [data], a year and
       | a half of GPU time to [train] the final model, and created a
       | model with a billion parameters that outperforms all specialized
       | previous models.
       | 
       | Or in the words of the authors, from the paper:
       | 
       | > We also show that it is unnecessary to design a special network
       | for 3D reconstruction. Instead, VGGT is based on a fairly
       | standard large transformer [119], with no particular 3D or other
       | inductive biases (except for alternating between frame-wise and
       | global attention), but trained on a large number of publicly
       | available datasets with 3D annotations.
       | 
       | Fantastic to have this. But it feels.. yes, somewhat bitter.
       | 
       | [The Bitter Lesson]:
       | http://www.incompleteideas.net/IncIdeas/BitterLesson.html (often
       | discussed on HN)
       | 
       | [data]: "Co3Dv2 [88], BlendMVS [146], DL3DV [69], MegaDepth [64],
       | Kubric [41], WildRGB [135], ScanNet [18], HyperSim [89],
       | Mapillary [71], Habitat [107], Replica [104], MVS-Synth [50],
       | PointOdyssey [159], Virtual KITTI [7], Aria Synthetic
       | Environments [82], Aria Digital Twin [82], and a synthetic
       | dataset of artist-created assets similar to Objaverse [20]."
       | 
       | [train]: "The training runs on 64 A100 GPUs over nine days", that
       | would be around $18k on lambda labs in case you're wondering
        
         | dleeftink wrote:
         | Doesn't the bitter lesson take the argument a bit too far by
         | opposing search/learn to heuristics? Is the former not
         | dependent on breakthroughs in the latter?
        
           | CooCooCaCha wrote:
           | The bitter lesson is the opposite. It argues that hand-
           | crafted heuristics will eventually get beaten by more general
           | learning algorithms that can take advantage of computing
           | power.
        
             | porphyra wrote:
             | Indeed, even in "classical chess engines" like Stockfish
             | which previously required handcrafted heuristics at leaf
             | nodes, in recent years the NNUE [1] [2] has greatly
             | outperformed it. Note that this is a completely different
             | approach from the one that AlphaZero takes, and modern
             | Stockfish is significantly stronger than AlphaZero.
             | 
             | [1] https://stockfishchess.org/blog/2020/introducing-nnue-
             | evalua...
             | 
             | [2] https://www.chessprogramming.org/Stockfish_NNUE
        
             | dleeftink wrote:
             | > eventually get beaten
             | 
             | Brute forcing is bound to find paths beyond heuristics.
             | What I'm getting at is that the path needs to be
             | established first before it can be beaten. Hence why I'm
             | wondering if one isn't an extension of the other instead of
             | an opposing strategy.
             | 
             | I.e. search and heuristics both have a time and place, not
             | so much a bitter lesson but a common filter for a next
             | iteration to pass through.
        
       | vessenes wrote:
       | Looking at the output, which is impressive, I want to see this
       | pipeline applied to splats. Dense point clouds lose a bunch of
       | color and directional information needed for high quality splats,
       | but it seems easy to imagine this method would work well for
       | splats. I wonder if the architecture could be fine tuned for this
       | or if you'd need to retrain an entire model.
        
         | w-m wrote:
         | Certainly possible, read 4.6. Finetuning for Downstream Tasks
         | in the paper, the first subsection is "Feed-forward Novel View
         | Synthesis". They chose to report their experiments on LVSM,
         | which is not an explicit representation like 3D Gaussian
         | Splatting, but they're citing two feed-forward 3DGS approaches
         | in their state of the art listing.
         | 
         | Should be quite exciting going forward, as fine-tuning might be
         | possible on consumer hardware / single Desktop machines (like
         | it is with LLMs). So I would expect a lot of experiments coming
         | out in this space, soon-ish. If the results hold true, it'll be
         | pretty exciting to drop slow and cumbersome COLMAP processing
         | and scene optimization for a single forward pass that lasts a
         | few seconds.
        
       | bhouston wrote:
       | I'm a little suspicious of many of the outdoor examples given
       | though. They are of famous places that are likely in the training
       | set:
       | 
       | - Egyptian pyramids
       | 
       | - Roman Colosseum
       | 
       | These are the most iconic and most photographed things in the
       | world.
       | 
       | That said, there are other examples are there more novel. I am
       | just going to focus on those to judge its quality.
        
         | ed wrote:
         | It's worth trying the demo - I uploaded a low quality video of
         | an indoor space and got decent results
        
         | kfarr wrote:
         | Use the hugging face with your own data, it's very good and
         | outputs a glb: https://huggingface.co/spaces/facebook/vggt
        
       | ninetyninenine wrote:
       | I feel agi will be a patchwork of models melded together.
       | Something like this would constitute a single model in the
       | "perception" area.
        
       | richard___ wrote:
       | We need camera poses in dynamic scenes
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | Please stop using keywords from electrical engineering.
        
         | juunpp wrote:
         | Someone's not _grounded_ in reality.
         | 
         | I'm ready to be grounded for this comment.
        
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