[HN Gopher] A study reveals that deciduous trees' roots remain a...
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       A study reveals that deciduous trees' roots remain active in winter
        
       Author : bryanrasmussen
       Score  : 64 points
       Date   : 2025-03-22 19:33 UTC (3 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.creaf.cat)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.creaf.cat)
        
       | londons_explore wrote:
       | This seems like the logical result... Underground where
       | temperatures are less extreme, there is no good reason to reduce
       | growth.
        
       | mapt wrote:
       | > "Our results demonstrate that the above-ground and below-ground
       | parts of a tree follow separate calendars, allowing for
       | underground growth to be prioritized in winter and aerial growth
       | at the beginning of spring," says CREAF researcher Paolo
       | Zuccarini, a co-author of the study. This divergence could offer
       | a strategic advantage: in winter, while the rest of the tree is
       | dormant, its roots store reserves of carbohydrates and nitrogen-
       | rich substances, such as proteins and amino acids. Thus, when the
       | tree 'reawakens', it will have enough nourishment for leaves to
       | bud and photosynthesis to resume, which is essential for trunk
       | and branch growth. "It's kind of like having building blocks
       | ready to use in the spring, when the priority is to produce
       | leaves so that photosynthesis can start again," explains
       | Zuccarini.
       | 
       | Okay this part makes sense.
       | 
       | > Its findings suggest that forest soils have a greater carbon
       | sink capacity than was previously believed, as they accumulate
       | carbon all year long rather than only when trees are more active
       | and their leaves are photosynthesizing.
       | 
       | This does not. They're not accumulating carbon in winter because
       | they're not photosynthesizing carbon dioxide into glucose in
       | winter. They're using stored carbon to continue cell division
       | (not to mention bribing bacteria & fungi to build a rhizosphere
       | with which to harvest nutrients).
        
         | darkerside wrote:
         | Probably misinterpretation. They don't accumulate carbon, but
         | this activity depletes carbon reserves, increasing capacity to
         | accumulate carbon in the summer months.
        
           | zdragnar wrote:
           | Sadly, roots respire- meaning that depletion of the carbon
           | reserves happens by releasing CO2 (in addition to building
           | lignin). It's only when they photosynthesize that plants
           | produce more O2 and absorb more CO2 than they release.
        
             | mncharity wrote:
             | > It's only when they photosynthesize that plants produce
             | more O2 and absorb more CO2 than they release.
             | 
             | And even narrower than that. I fuzzily recall seeing
             | rainforest curves, where only for some hours around noon
             | were trees net producers. Hmm... though perhaps that was
             | for forest-not-just-tree?
        
       | damnitbuilds wrote:
       | This seems like something that they could have and should have
       | found out hundreds of years ago?
        
         | squircle wrote:
         | Not until its published? Have not read the article but I
         | thought this was common knowledge.
        
           | Maciek416 wrote:
           | Winter root growth is widely-observed amongst people who work
           | with tree roots annually (bonsai hobbyists and professionals,
           | commercial ornamental tree growers, especially propagation-
           | adjacent roles) in milder temperate climates (eg: Pacific
           | Northwest).
           | 
           | In my time studying bonsai (past 7-10y) in every winter (Jan-
           | Mar) I've repotted (anywhere from partial to full bare
           | rooting, partial to full root structure editing) many PNW-
           | native deciduous trees (alders, bigleaf + vine maples,
           | cottonwoods, etc) as well as non-PNW-native deciduous
           | (birches, beeches, elms, maples, hazels, hornbeams,
           | stewartia, bald cypress, cherries/plums, quinces, snowbells,
           | etc). In somewhat-mild-and-milder climates there is _always_
           | some root growth going on. Such winter root growth is much
           | more aggressive in conifers, particularly pines, but also in
           | spruces, cypress-family species (junipers).
           | 
           | Here's a diagram from a paper showing scots pine and
           | rowan/ash adding either root or vegitative growth in various
           | parts of the year:
           | 
           | https://imgur.com/a/qF4oQ8a
           | 
           | Temperate trees collect or spend carbon in the warm parts of
           | the year, i.e. between bud-break and mid-summer. In cooler
           | parts of the year, they do various things: store it in the
           | wood, move it around (redistribution + retranslocation),
           | spend it (future-season buds + cambium + root expansion) or
           | carefully avoid spending it (dormancy).
           | 
           | Even in these periods they're still collecting sunlight if
           | they can, quite a few deciduous species can photosynthesize
           | at least a little bit directly through their bark -- young
           | twigs have much thinner bark even in trees that get very
           | rough bark (eg: black cottonwood). And evergreens are
           | collecting sunlight any time mild-or-warmer conditions are in
           | play.
           | 
           | Trees are active in some shape or form any time they are able
           | to be. If you live in USDA hardiness zone 7 or warmer and
           | have trees/shrubs outside you can notice this more easily
           | than in colder climates (where the grow/no-grow seasons are
           | more sharply bounded). Roots are not the only thing expanding
           | in winter. Take a picture every day of a branch on a
           | deciduous or evergreen tree and you'll see bud expansion.
        
             | destitude wrote:
             | Yeah but they aren't making this clear and see people
             | misinterpreting this not realizing that it is in temperate
             | forests only. I don't see how any tree roots can be formed
             | when frost line is feet below the surface.
        
         | ledauphin wrote:
         | i'd read several state Ag agencies that have known this. It's
         | why you keep watering newly planted trees even after their
         | leaves fall, until the ground freezes. The roots will keep
         | growing.
        
       | hoeoek wrote:
       | Cool! As a forester, this is interesting to see being researched.
       | Many models in our field link biomass growth strictly to seasonal
       | temperature thresholds, often considering trees to be 'growing'
       | only when mean daily temperatures exceed 5 or 10 degrees Celsius
       | for a consecutive week in spring, and 'idle' otherwise. So
       | basically not accounting for this new "off-season growth", older
       | research are overlooking a bunch of details and insights into
       | growth dynamics. Using coniferous/decidious species as random
       | effects in models has shown to have an effect - this might be
       | why.
        
         | abakker wrote:
         | Its interesting because last year I did an experiment where I
         | put ~6" of wood chip mulch and slow release fertilizer over the
         | root zones of several trees (climate 6a), and now that its
         | spring, every tree that got the thick coat of mulch has leafed
         | out or budded significantly more than those that just got
         | fertilizer. (sample size of around 10 trees in bad dirt in
         | boulder. YMMV)
        
           | 0xbadcafebee wrote:
           | I mean, could have been the fertilizer, or could have just
           | been an insulating layer?
        
             | zdragnar wrote:
             | Since OP mentioned both with and without the mulch got
             | fertilizer, it's definitely insulation.
             | 
             | They also mentioned "bad dirt" as well, so there's a very
             | good chance the mulch also helped with moisture retention.
        
               | abakker wrote:
               | yeah, we have alkaline expansive clay, so moisture
               | retention was an objective. I added the nitrogen to
               | offset the fact that fresh wood chips tend to be a
               | nitrogen sink rather than a source.
               | 
               | I theorize that thermal protection and moisture retention
               | together have kept those plants happier.
        
       | taeric wrote:
       | My mental model for deciduous trees was that they drop their
       | leaves as a form of biological warfare against the shrubs below.
       | I'm also growing to the idea that it is a way to lower their
       | footprint against winds in the winter.
       | 
       | Would be neat to see more studies like this that look at the way
       | they grow. Reminds me of the fun video that talks about where
       | they get their mass. Related heavily to how and where people lose
       | weight.
        
         | moate wrote:
         | In your mind, how does dropping leaves harm the shrubs?
         | Wouldn't it allow for more light to pass down to the forest
         | floor? It feels like the tree's response to shrubs was "grow
         | taller to maximize sun exposure"
         | 
         | I feel like the conventional wisdom that this is a response to
         | environment(conserve energy/lower wind resistance) make more
         | sense than "offensive deterrent for competing plants" even more
         | so when you consider that every leaf dropped is biomass that
         | the tree had already taken in and utilized, but now it's giving
         | it up. Maybe a pro-symbiotic move whereby dropping the leaves
         | provides shelter/biomass for beneficial insects that could
         | provide root aeration or soil enrichment would be another
         | reason?
        
           | taeric wrote:
           | I'm largely going by what I see in my yard. If I want any of
           | the ground shrubs to not die every year, I have to make sure
           | they are not drowned in leaves.
           | 
           | Note that I'm not claiming the leaves are necessarily bad.
           | They make pretty good mulch and such. But, without tending to
           | uncover the smaller plants, they do a pretty good job of
           | killing the things below the tree.
        
             | Maciek416 wrote:
             | It affects seedling recruitment for sure. Some species love
             | to start beneath leaf mulch and there is probably something
             | out there that would colonize your leaf field hard and fast
             | if it were given the chance. I collect red alder seedlings
             | in timber clearcutting areas, and often find that they've
             | had to twist/push their way through 6-12" of slash
             | (clearcutting debris) to reach light and finally grow
             | upwards. Quite a few conifers can push upward through many
             | inches of needle duff as well.
        
           | Maciek416 wrote:
           | I think conserving energy in cold months is close to the
           | biggest factor.
           | 
           | Regarding the dropping of biomass, in both deciduous and
           | evergreen species, some of the substances from the retiring
           | leaves/needles are reclaimed by trees ("retranslocation") and
           | pulled out of the leaf before letting go of the leaf. In
           | species like pines it'll be the second or third (or older,
           | sometimes much older) retiring needles and in species like
           | maple or beech it'll the be the entire foliage. Mass useful
           | to soil ecosystems still falls but the tree grabs what it can
           | in the late months of the year, hence the color change.
           | 
           | One thing the grandparent comment doesn't talk about much is
           | the cost (in sugar) of both building and thereafter
           | maintaining leaves and the related tradeoffs. Building a
           | fully winter-tolerant broadleaf is more expensive sugar-wise
           | than building a winter-interolerant leaf. A sugar maple in
           | Quebec, where the season is shorter than (say) Oregon is
           | going to compete in its niche better if it can attain surface
           | area quickly at the start of the growing season, and that is
           | better done with a winter-intolerant, more relatively
           | delicate leaf. An evergreen leaf takes more time and mass to
           | build and has to have more limited surface area or armor
           | (cuticle) to tolerate such winters.
        
           | AngryData wrote:
           | Decaying leaves do change the ph of the soil and can leave a
           | wet heavy mass that new sprouts have trouble sprouting
           | through and seeds have trouble getting through to the soil.
           | 
           | There is no reason shedding leaves has to only be for one
           | single purpose like weather protection, saving energy, or
           | trying to prevent competition, it can be all at once.
        
       | jnellis wrote:
       | The bulk of roto-rooter calls to clear home sewer lines of tree
       | roots happens during winter.
        
       | naikrovek wrote:
       | I feel like I already knew this somehow. I'm sure I wanted to
       | discover this as a child and cut a root during winter so that I
       | could see if it healed. more likely I probably put the end of a
       | root into some water with food coloring in it and came back later
       | to see that food coloring had moved up the root.
        
       | y-c-o-m-b wrote:
       | I always assumed the roots kept growing, so I didn't know that
       | wasn't already an established idea. That kind of strikes me as
       | strange and interesting. I figured it was common sense?
       | 
       | This was extremely evident by the red maple on our curb
       | destroying the sidewalk even through the winter months. Even my
       | dwarf magnolia tree has a notable increase in its trunk size in
       | its dormant phase.
        
         | destitude wrote:
         | This is still in temperate forests. It still isn't clear to me
         | if this is true where frost lines are feet below the surface.
         | How can the roots grow in frozen soil?
        
           | cwmoore wrote:
           | I can imagine root tips advance by thermally or chemically
           | melting ice or frozen soil.
        
       | mvdtnz wrote:
       | This is common knowledge. What a waste of time and effort.
        
       | volleygman180 wrote:
       | When controlling invasive plants like honeysuckle using
       | glyphosate, one of the more responsible approaches is to wait
       | until all of the trees have lost their leaves in the fall and
       | entered dormancy. The idea being that because the honeysuckle
       | still has its leaves, you can safely use glyphosate on it with
       | minimal to no impact on the rest of the ecosystem. I've always
       | had my doubts (particularly due to studies on mycelium being
       | exposed to glyphosate), but this is one of best practices that
       | conservation departments recommend.
       | 
       | With this new study, it opens the possibility that trees may
       | still have root absorption during the winter season. I feel like
       | it is further evidence of how glyphosate likely always impacts
       | the ecosystem and has no truly safe usage
        
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