[HN Gopher] Books on Making and Maintaining Friendships
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       Books on Making and Maintaining Friendships
        
       Author : sundarurfriend
       Score  : 69 points
       Date   : 2025-03-23 18:50 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.scotthyoung.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.scotthyoung.com)
        
       | wewewedxfgdf wrote:
       | Intentionally making friends is a concept unfamiliar to me. I
       | have a small collection of good friends, all made long in the
       | past and deliberately maintained. Friendships are forged in
       | shared experience and more easily when young - that's just my
       | personal experience I know its different for others. And they
       | cannot be primarily virtual or they wilt. I feel like if there
       | was any sense of an intentional attempt to make friends I would
       | push back and away. Of course your experience is different
       | because friendships come in many forms.
        
         | klipt wrote:
         | > Friendships are forged in shared experience and more easily
         | when young
         | 
         | That's great but what if you move to study or for a job.
         | 
         | When you're the new person in town you have to make new friends
         | or be socially isolated forever.
        
           | wewewedxfgdf wrote:
           | I deliberately stayed in my home town to keep my friendships
           | - in many ways I would have been far better off leaving - I
           | have often speculated about living somewhere else for a
           | better financial and career life but fewer friendships.
        
         | sundarurfriend wrote:
         | Your experience is the "standard" story about friendships
         | portrayed in the media, and it's great when it works out that
         | way, I'm glad it did for you.
         | 
         | It's hard to know how standard that actually is though, how
         | much of the population gets to experience it that way. A lot of
         | people grow up in situations where they feel ostracized or just
         | don't find anyone they connect to in their peer groups, and so
         | don't get to forge friendships at that stage.
         | 
         | And then there's many that go through a traumatic experience or
         | big upheaval in their life in a way that makes it practically
         | impossible to maintain the connections they did forge. It's
         | true that sometimes it's those traumatic experiences or
         | difficulties that deepen the friendship, but there's also many
         | cases where those are so big and impactful that they alter
         | one's identity and relationships (including friendships)
         | forever.
         | 
         | It's quite mature of you to be open to the fact that the
         | experience is different for others, that's not often the case
         | when one gets the "default" good experience of something. Many
         | others who get that experience tend to dismiss conscious
         | attempts to make or maintain friendships (like in the post) as
         | not genuine, but friendship is also a skill that some people
         | pick up unconsciously, and others need conscious attempts to
         | learn and practice.
        
         | moffkalast wrote:
         | > And they cannot be primarily virtual or they wilt.
         | 
         | See that's the problem with childhood friends, people move.
         | Eventually it's impossible to keep in touch beyond online with
         | more than one or two, sometimes not even that. Yearly meetups
         | don't really do anything except make you realize that you have
         | less and less in common each time until one day nobody feels
         | like organizing anything anymore.
        
         | johnnyanmac wrote:
         | It's nice but not all friendships can be maintained or forged.
         | I was a military family so I moved around a lot. And this was
         | pre-social media, so I lost all my elementary school friends
         | when I moved. So, no "childhood friends" to lean on".
         | 
         | And it happens naturally as well when you go to college and
         | likely graduate. Lot of my middle/high school connections
         | spread out doing the same as me, finding their next step in
         | their career. I'd be surprised if most people knew more than
         | 1-2 people at their first job. So you gotta either work hard on
         | old relationships from afar or find new ones.
         | 
         | It's especially important if you are trying to find a mate. I'm
         | not sure I heard of many deep romantic relationships that were
         | started virtually with no physical contact for months.
         | 
         | >perience and more easily when young - that's just my personal
         | experience I know its different for others. And they cannot be
         | primarily virtual or they wilt.
         | 
         | There's that too. We're social creatures and a screen can't
         | satisfy everyone. Men in particular are also just horrible at
         | updates. I don't know how you can communicate for 20 minutes
         | with someone you haven't talked to in a year and casually
         | mention "oh yea, I'm married now and am expecting a kid in 3
         | months". Really shows how isolated you can feel with someone
         | you thought you knew inside out.
         | 
         | >I feel like if there was any sense of an intentional attempt
         | to make friends I would push back and away. Of course your
         | experience is different because friendships come in many forms.
         | 
         | Well that's the difficult part of modern friend forming. It's a
         | two way street and we're in days where even your second place
         | might be virtual. There's no school or parents to make people
         | mesh together. You need not only to create events but the
         | recipient needs energy to participate. You can do everything
         | right but some people will simply not want to meet you halfway.
        
       | Isamu wrote:
       | This may sound like I am joking but I think that engineering
       | types tend to be literalists and could benefit from books with a
       | more direct approach, like "How to be less of a jerk to everyone
       | around you and why that matters" or maybe "It's not everyone
       | else, you're the dick".
       | 
       | I should add that I am thinking primarily about people who are
       | inadvertently abrasive, as a result of clumsy interactions.
        
         | dcraw wrote:
         | My brother wrote an essay on how to work with "stupid" people
         | (which starts with recognizing they're not stupid).
         | 
         | https://jasoncrawford.org/how-to-work-with-stupid-people
        
           | CharlieDigital wrote:
           | That's a great read and very, very high EQ way of thinking
           | about these situations.
           | 
           | Last 3 bullets are solid. Roughly same advice I often give to
           | junior devs.
        
           | ChrisMarshallNY wrote:
           | I spent most of my career at a company with some of the top
           | engineers and optical scientists in the world. I'm pretty
           | used to being the dumbest guy in the room, and I'm smarter
           | than the average bear.
           | 
           | Problem-solving/designing IQ is great, but it ain't the be-
           | all/end-all. A lot of folks with two-digit IQs are my heroes.
        
           | hinkley wrote:
           | I think I could die happy if the following aphorism were
           | attributed to me:
           | 
           | Never attribute to stupidity that which can be properly
           | explained by apathy.
           | 
           | We treat other very smart people as stupid when we just
           | haven't given them any reason at all to make them give a fuck
           | about our pet peeves, or daily pain. Everybody has days when
           | they are just trying to make it to 5:00. Sell me on your
           | idea. Scolding is a weapon of last resort, and some people
           | reach for it very early.
        
             | sundarurfriend wrote:
             | > Scolding is a weapon of last resort, and some people
             | reach for it very early.
             | 
             | This single fact is responsible for so much polarization
             | and conflict in the world. It also makes one's point _less_
             | convincing, and makes people less likely to choose your
             | side.
             | 
             | A lot of the times, especially online, the "scolding" is
             | done not as an attempt to bring the other person over or
             | make them see your side; rather, it's become a social
             | signal to one's own in-group to say "see how committed I am
             | to our side", and gain some cachet in the group that way.
             | Even if it muddies the water for everyone and makes the
             | world a little bit worse in the process.
        
           | steve_adams_86 wrote:
           | Something I've come to realize is that there's a sort of
           | irony in thinking people are stupid. It typically means you
           | value a specific form of intelligence, and are too biased to
           | recognize other forms when they occur in other people.
           | 
           | My friend's mom hates computers and software, but is
           | incredibly technically competent when it comes to weaving and
           | looms. She has fixed so many old machines, learned to do such
           | cool stuff with them, does amazing work with dying and
           | processing, and so on. She would strike your average tech bro
           | as pretty clueless and out to lunch (she's a little whacky
           | and eccentric) but she's so technically inclined in a
           | different way it's absurd.
           | 
           | Obviously some people are intellectually disabled and can't
           | do things like this, but stupid seems like a derogatory term
           | in that context. And even then, I sincerely doubt you
           | couldn't find useful insight and intelligence there too.
           | 
           | I'd say that thinking other people are stupid is simply
           | failing to recognize or appreciate the value other people
           | bring.
           | 
           | Having said that, I'm pretty stupid so I could be wrong
        
             | CharlieDigital wrote:
             | > Something I've come to realize is that there's a sort of
             | irony in thinking people are stupid. It typically means you
             | value a specific form of intelligence, and are too biased
             | to recognize other forms when they occur in other people.
             | 
             | There's a great book by Todd Rose titled _The End of
             | Average_ ; great read.
             | 
             | Premise is exactly that for centuries, we've measured
             | "intelligence" in such a narrow scope focused on the
             | foundations of industry (reading, writing, arithmetic)
             | often at the expense of other forms of intelligence like
             | spatial (e.g. sculptors, artists), emotional, and even
             | dextile (I think I just made up a word?).
             | 
             | I have more recently been thinking about what intelligence
             | means in this era when AI is advancing so quickly in
             | processing information in volumes far surpassing humans
             | ever could. I think that in the future, we'll see a
             | realignment on intelligence.
        
           | jaredsohn wrote:
           | Lots of useful information.
           | 
           | I guess you need to practice what this suggests rather than
           | just sharing it with someone, though. If you send someone a
           | link of 'How to work with "stupid" people' they might think
           | you're calling them stupid instead of trying to improve
           | communication.
        
           | brudgers wrote:
           | I think it's Paul Graham's definition of a stupid person that
           | goes something like:                 A stupid person is
           | someone        who creates difficulties       that don't
           | benefit anyone       including themselves.
           | 
           | Thinking about a large number of other people as lacking
           | intelligence seems to be one of those things.
        
         | lokimedes wrote:
         | Look for books like "The Asperkid's (secret) book of social
         | rules".
        
       | stroz wrote:
       | We built Soonly (https://soonly.com) for doing exactly this!
       | Build meaningful friendships with simple text reminders.
       | 
       | It's amazing how much value compounds from simply and
       | consistently investing in your relationships over the course of
       | your life.
        
       | johnea wrote:
       | People need a book on how to make a friend?
       | 
       | Sorry, this is never going to work...
        
       | atlasunshrugged wrote:
       | I've heard good things about "The Other Significant Others" by
       | NPR's Rhaina Cohen (with the disclosure that the author is the
       | partner of a friend of mine)
       | 
       | https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250333025/theothersignifi...
        
       | adminm wrote:
       | For any "self help" book, people split into three groups and they
       | take it as 1. Gospel, 2. Nonsense, 3. Somewhere in the middle.
       | 
       | I think you have to be in the third group for the books to be
       | useful. You have to be able to pick out the truths and the
       | nonsense. But also I think the nonsense is sometimes helpful to
       | point out the truths.
       | 
       | Me and you could read the same book, find it useful but what we
       | took from it was quite different because what we needed was quite
       | different. Even though we fundamentally had the same problem.
        
       | profstasiak wrote:
       | I want to highlight this blog article which in my opinion gives
       | more actionable advice than all of the books listed (I read 6/8
       | of those) on the topic of having good social life
       | 
       | https://www.neelnanda.io/blog/mini-blog-post-23-taking-socia...
       | 
       | tldr; taking social initiative is like a cheat code.
       | 
       | The easiest way to make friends is to start organizing. I started
       | applying this approach to my social life and I created two new
       | friends groups from scratch.
       | 
       | 1. Me and my brother started organizing lasertag matches.
       | Basically anyone is invited. We even post open invitation to all
       | our friends. Right now we have 20 people in our group chat and we
       | do lasertags + beers once a month.
       | 
       | 2. I created a group of friends from highschool - like a reunion
       | shit but once every month. When I reached out to people everyone
       | was hyped. I had only one of these meetings atm but everyone was
       | happy and said they want more. We will be having a second one
       | soon.
       | 
       | If I needed more friends that's what I would be focusing on.
       | Organizing a cyclic get together of people. It's like a cheat
       | code for having a lot of friends.
       | 
       | Right now I am a bit of time constrained but I look forward to
       | organizing something different in the future.
        
         | sitkack wrote:
         | Yeah, when I was younger, I had a kickball mailing list running
         | on my mail server early 2000s. It only had kickball traffic,
         | anytime someone wanted to play a game they would post, their
         | phone number and time and location of a game and people would
         | just show up.
         | 
         | Would organize larger games with more notice. Anyone who
         | watched us for more than 15 seconds would be forced to play. If
         | they had fun, we made them sign up.
        
       | nico wrote:
       | When I first read "How to win friends ...", the advice in the
       | book made sense, but I couldn't take advantage of almost any of
       | it, except maybe for written communication
       | 
       | My social anxiety was so high, I couldn't even get to the basic
       | situations that are the base for all of Dale Carnegie's book
       | 
       | However, another book (and mainly the exercises in that book),
       | that helped me a lot, was The Charisma Myth, by Olivia Fox-Cabane
       | 
       | It has some excellent material on how to reduce social anxiety
       | and be able to have better interactions
       | 
       | Highly recommend it. And if you are curious, but don't want to
       | commit to a whole book, just find the intro somewhere online and
       | follow the 3 tips in there
        
       | nvahalik wrote:
       | Our men's group has been reading "Side by Side" by Ed Welch.
       | Great book.
        
       | GlacierFox wrote:
       | Tech does seem to be where I've met the most obliviously
       | abrasive, socially inept people that would absolutely not gain a
       | grain of insight from any book on this subject matter -
       | purposefully.
        
       | sitkack wrote:
       | It is odd how quickly this dropped from 1 to 58 (3rd from the
       | bottom on the second page) in just the time I came back from
       | lunch.
        
       | disambiguation wrote:
       | Autism, low social and emotional intelligence, weak theory of
       | mind, inability to read and anticipate the emotional states of
       | others.
       | 
       | I suspect this is a major, yet unspoken, cognitive difference
       | that separates the pro social from the anti social.
       | 
       | Further im pessimistic that any amount of self help lists and
       | techniques can make up for what is natural to many, yet deficient
       | in others.
        
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       (page generated 2025-03-23 23:02 UTC)