[HN Gopher] Map Features in OpenStreetMap with Computer Vision
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Map Features in OpenStreetMap with Computer Vision
        
       Author : Brysonbw
       Score  : 285 points
       Date   : 2025-03-22 17:42 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.mozilla.ai)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.mozilla.ai)
        
       | ks2048 wrote:
       | I did some work in this field, although years ago. There is a
       | huge amount of existing models, datasets, tools, etc.
       | 
       | https://github.com/satellite-image-deep-learning
        
         | nativeit wrote:
         | This is an amazing set of resources, thanks for sharing. I have
         | been tinkering with QGIS, and signed up for a slew of
         | public/private satellite imagery APIs to bring in data to play
         | with. The EU's space agency has a lot of really good data
         | sources with fully open access (no user accounts necessary). I
         | am looking forward to working with this new collection of ML-
         | specific tools.
        
           | daavoo wrote:
           | > really good data sources with fully open access (no user
           | accounts necessary)
           | 
           | Ola!
           | 
           | I am the author of the repo, worked in satellite projects for
           | the Galician goverment some years ago.
           | 
           | You don't need an account to download the data from OSM (you
           | do need to contribute back, which makes sense IMO). You don't
           | need an account to download tiles from some publicly
           | available sources (i.e. https://pnoa.ign.es/ in Spain) but I
           | prefer to made the code work with MapBox and let them pay the
           | infra (until they stop free offering). Happy to share a
           | simple snippet to use a different tile provider.
           | 
           | Any public dataset (that I am aware) is not really meant to
           | be frequently updated, at best you get a second version
           | release a year later. A lot of public money (I know because
           | have been payed a small portion of these budgets) is spent on
           | building datasets that are used for a couple of research
           | papers, uploaded to the web and then become outdated.
           | 
           | If I want to help updating them or correcting label mistakes,
           | in most (all?) cases, there is no practical way for me to do
           | it.
           | 
           | I believe that OpenStreetMap has the potential to be the best
           | publicly available spatial "dataset" for (some specific) CV
           | use cases.
           | 
           | If we focus on creating ways to contribute with quality data
           | (the idea behind this small project), it will just keep
           | getting a better dataset, that anyone can contribute to be
           | up-to-date.
        
       | stereo wrote:
       | Hi from the OpenStreetMap Foundation. Please don't add AI-
       | detected features directly to the database.
       | 
       | The algorithms have problems with false positives, and with
       | mapping straight or rectangular objects as wobbly, as shown in
       | the second-to-last screenshot.
       | 
       | As a helper to detect missing features, this is a precious tool.
       | But we still need human intervention to make sure the detected
       | objects are drawn correctly.
       | 
       | See also: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines
       | and
       | https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_...
        
         | daavoo wrote:
         | > But we still need human intervention to make sure the
         | detected objects are drawn correctly.
         | 
         | Hi, I am the author.
         | 
         | The demo app and any provided code example includes a step
         | asking a human to verify the detected features. You can't
         | upload them automatically unless you modify the source code.
         | 
         | I reiterate the human verification across the docs, linked
         | post, and any code samples.
         | 
         | I haven't ever uploaded features automatically. In fact I
         | manually edited and labeled hundreds of swimming pool samples
         | myself before even training the first version.
         | 
         | Happy to hear and implement any ideas on how to improve the
         | process to prevent automated features to be uploaded.
         | 
         | I know some people might say: just don't publish the tool, I
         | think we can do better at embracing AI and having an open
         | discussion.
        
           | halosghost wrote:
           | I am afraid your "human in the loop" isn't [0].
           | 
           | You acknowledge the problem of AI slop up-front, but seem to
           | have chosen to plow forward anyway. Please do consider your
           | actions and their effects carefully [1]. You are in a
           | position of potential influence; try not to squander it.
           | 
           | All the best,
           | 
           | -HG
           | 
           | [0]: https://pluralistic.net/2024/10/30/a-neck-in-a-noose/
           | 
           | [1]: https://web.cs.ucdavis.edu/~rogaway/papers/radical.pdf
        
             | Vinnl wrote:
             | "plow forward" and implying they didn't consider their
             | actions and their effects seem ungenerous, given the list
             | of precautions in the comment you're replying to.
             | 
             | You can disagree on whether the measures are effective, of
             | course, but they're clearly not thoughtless.
        
               | benatkin wrote:
               | It was the equivalent of vibe coding:
               | 
               | > The polygons the algorithm had drawn were consistently
               | of poor quality with stray nodes and nodes far outside
               | the pool boundaries, and the imports hadn't been
               | discussed with local communities.
               | 
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43448498
        
               | Vinnl wrote:
               | That too seems an ungenerous characterisation, and the GP
               | could not have deduced that from the OP. I'm glad the
               | author is constructively incorporating criticism and
               | working to turn this into a useful tool that OSM users
               | will benefit from, because they wouldn't have been the
               | first to get overly defensive after their work was
               | interpreted in the worst light possible.
        
             | necovek wrote:
             | I believe your critique would be more valuable if you've
             | actually uncovered cases where the human in the loop missed
             | these issues and bad or "wobbly" data ended up in the OSM
             | database: did this happen? (the other comment from another
             | person confirms it has)
             | 
             | Otherwise, you are discounting their effort based on a
             | prejudice -- others might be unable to supervise an AI, but
             | someone who's actually developed it might have a better
             | chance of success.
        
               | yorwba wrote:
               | The screenshot in the article shows wobbly data. You may
               | need to zoom in and look closely to notice.
        
             | hgomersall wrote:
             | Tracing satellite data is really boring to do but easy to
             | check. I would describe AI acting as a centaur here, or
             | perhaps a pairing of equals.
        
           | yorwba wrote:
           | > Happy to hear and implement any ideas on how to improve the
           | process to prevent automated features to be uploaded.
           | 
           | Idea: do not automatically create features that a human can
           | simply approve, instead require them to draw the polygon
           | themselves.
        
             | IshKebab wrote:
             | That kind of defeats the point surely?
        
               | echoangle wrote:
               | Well it can still detect features in the satellite image
               | that are missing on the map. That would already be a
               | large help, no?
        
               | timewizard wrote:
               | The point of what? Slamming a bunch of contributions in?
               | Or actually improving the product for end users?
        
               | IshKebab wrote:
               | Adding missing features. I'm pretty sure if users are
               | searching for swimming pools they'd rather have a
               | swimming pool with slightly bent sides than none at all.
        
             | daavoo wrote:
             | That is what I will implement before bringing back the demo
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43448649
        
             | K2h wrote:
             | long time editor of osm here. what you describe is what the
             | rapid [1] editor from meta does where user is forced to
             | manually select objects overlayed sat imagery. is limited
             | to 50 objects before user must push. a great method i think
             | 
             | [1] https://rapideditor.org/
        
           | boredpudding wrote:
           | I don't understand the 'human verification' aspect.
           | 
           | Your docs show a simple image where the user can choose to
           | keep a new object or not. [0] Afterwards it says: "The ones
           | you chose to keep will be uploaded to OpenStreetMap using
           | upload_osm.". This is uploading features automatically. The
           | fact that it asks 'are you sure' is just silly. We all know
           | if humans have to click yes 90% of the time, and no 10% of
           | the time, they'll miss a lot of no's.
           | 
           | The image also proofs that:
           | 
           | - You don't see any polygons properly. You just see a an
           | image of where the pool is. Already on the image I can see
           | that if the polygons align to that image, it will be a total
           | mess.
           | 
           | - You don't see any polygons further away from the object.
           | 
           | Both these points are in stereo's reply that the resulted
           | data was a mess.
           | 
           | Please consider pulling the project. This will generate a lot
           | of data that volunteers will have to check and revert.
           | 
           | [0] https://github.com/mozilla-ai/osm-ai-
           | helper/blob/main/docs/s...
        
             | daavoo wrote:
             | > This will generate a lot of data that volunteers will
             | have to check and revert.
             | 
             | This is just not true. The data can be easily identified
             | with the `created_by` tag. And I have been reviewing myself
             | any data uploaded with the demo (with a clear different
             | criteria on what is good enough)
        
               | karlgkk wrote:
               | adding a "created_by" tag is not opt in. it's opt out.
               | you are de facto choosing how OSM volunteers must
               | approach their work, without their consent.
        
               | AyyEye wrote:
               | Can I suggest also adding a tag for ML originated
               | features that's not specific to your demo/app? Maybe this
               | can help put extra eyes on them and/or help prevent them
               | from polluting the DB wholesale. Maybe client apps could
               | have a toggle to allow/reject them.
        
               | xorcist wrote:
               | If the _upstream project_ thinks there may be a potential
               | problem with this, that is a problem in itself. Try not
               | to get defensive about it, just pull the project and have
               | another go at the problem in collaboration with upstream.
               | Perhaps parts of the project and be useful for upstream?
               | Perhaps another workflow could make the project better?
               | 
               | We all strive for better open data. I upstream feel there
               | is a risk that automated uploads could be easier with
               | this project, creating more boring work for them which is
               | already enough of a problem, that animosity will be a net
               | negative for everyone in this space. Technical solutions
               | such as new tags or opt out schemes will not solve the
               | problem.
        
               | hartator wrote:
               | Mozilla engineers think they are way better than the rest
               | of us though. Don't need to follow the same rules.
        
               | frozenseven wrote:
               | The real "problem" here is that someone is once again
               | upset about AI for no good reason. A good cue to consider
               | making an AI-based competitor to OpenStreetMap.
        
               | crooked-v wrote:
               | The "good reason" is that OSM is supposed to contain real
               | data, not wobbly AI guesswork data.
        
               | frozenseven wrote:
               | Robust computer vision is not guesswork, and probably
               | better than what the average contributor can do. The
               | "wobbly" concerns were already addressed.
        
               | wiml wrote:
               | That's not an assertion I'm going to take seriously
               | without evidence.
        
               | frozenseven wrote:
               | Preliminary evidence seems very good. The gatekeepers are
               | already doing damage control.
        
               | wiml wrote:
               | Link the evidence, then. Numbers, not vibes.
        
               | tga_d wrote:
               | The OSM community has had extremely clear rules around
               | automated edits for most of its existence. Every
               | experienced mapper has seen first-hand the sorts of
               | problems they can cause. The fact that it's using AI in
               | this instance does not give any sort of exception to
               | these rules. To emphasize, there _are already_ AI-
               | assisted tools that are allowed,[0] this isn 't a blanket
               | application of "no AI ever," it's about doing so properly
               | with the right community vetting.
               | 
               | [0] Most notably:
               | https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Rapid
               | 
               | Edit to add: To be clear, they have since taken steps to
               | try to resolve the concerns in question, the discussion
               | is ongoing. I suspect at the end of this we will get a
               | useful tool, it's just off to a rocky start.
        
         | daavoo wrote:
         | > straight or rectangular objects as wobbly, as shown in the
         | second-to-last screenshot.
         | 
         | This is a because the polygon is drawn as a mask in order to
         | overlay it on the image. The actual polygon being uploaded
         | doesn't have the wobbly features.
         | 
         | It is True there are cases were the predicted polygon is wobbly
         | and I encourage people to discard them. However I didn't
         | publish this demo until I got a first version of the model that
         | reached some minimum quality.
         | 
         | There is logic in the code to simplify the shape of the
         | predicted polygon in order to avoid having too many nodes.
        
           | stereo wrote:
           | Hi! The Data Working Group had a look at the data, and
           | decided to revert the two pool changesets. The polygons the
           | algorithm had drawn were consistently of poor quality with
           | stray nodes and nodes far outside the pool boundaries, and
           | the imports hadn't been discussed with local communities.
        
             | boredpudding wrote:
             | Can you link the (now reverted) changesets? I can't seem to
             | find them.
        
               | stereo wrote:
               | https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/163855992 and
               | https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/163863954 are the
               | ones I've reverted. There are more in daavoo's changeset
               | history.
        
             | daavoo wrote:
             | Hi, thanks for the feedback.
             | 
             | I have disabled the hosted demo for now, and will remove
             | the uploading part from the code in favor of showing an URL
             | that will open the editor at the location.
             | 
             | If its of any help, you can find any contributed polygon
             | with the tag `created_by=https://github.com/mozilla-ai/osm-
             | ai-helper`. Feel free to remove all of them (or I can do it
             | myself once I access a PC).
             | 
             | I will be happy to continue the discussion on what is a
             | good prediction or not. I have mapped a lot of swimming
             | pools myself and edited and removed a lot of (presumably)
             | human contributed polygons that looked worse (too my eyes)
             | than the predictions I approved to be uploaded.
        
               | lmc wrote:
               | > I will be happy to continue the discussion on what is a
               | good prediction or not. I have mapped a lot of swimming
               | pools myself and edited and removed a lot of (presumably)
               | human contributed polygons that looked worse (too my
               | eyes) than the predictions I approved to be uploaded.
               | 
               | Something else you need to be mindful of is that the
               | mapbox imagery may be out of date, especially for the
               | super zoomed in stuff (which comes from aerial flights).
               | So e.g., a pool built 2 years ago might not show up.
               | 
               | https://docs.mapbox.com/help/dive-deeper/imagery/
        
               | joshvm wrote:
               | This is a general problem when trying to compare OSM data
               | with aerial imagery. I've worked a lot with orthos from
               | Open Aerial Map, whose stated goal is to provide high
               | quality imagery that's licensed for mapping. If you try
               | and take OSM labels from the bounding boxes of those
               | images and use them for segmentation labels, they're
               | often misaligned or not detailed enough. In theory those
               | images ought to have the best corresponding data, but OAM
               | allows people to upload open imagery generally and not
               | all of it is mapped.
               | 
               | I've spent a lot of time building models for tree
               | mapping. In theory you could use that as a pipeline with
               | OAM to generate forest regions for OSM and it would
               | _probably_ be better than human labels which tend to be
               | very coarse. I wouldn 't discount AI labeling entirely,
               | but it does need oversight and you probably want a high
               | confidence threshold. One other thought is you could
               | compare overlap between predicted polygons and human
               | polygons and use that as a prompt to review for
               | refinement. This would be helpful for things like
               | individual buildings which tend to not be mapped
               | particularly well (i.e. tight to the structure), but a
               | modern segmentation model can probably provide very tight
               | polygons.
        
               | stereo wrote:
               | Hi, thanks for replying! I was looking at your source
               | code, and wondering how easy it would be to create a .osm
               | file instead of uploading the data. The JOSM editor's
               | todo list plugin would make it easy to plough through all
               | the polygons or centroids, and do any refinement
               | necessary. For example, I'm curious to try this out to
               | detect crosswalks, and those need to be glued to the
               | highway being crossed.
        
               | daavoo wrote:
               | > and wondering how easy it would be to create a .osm
               | file instead of uploading the data. The JOSM editor's
               | todo list plugin would make it easy to plough through all
               | the polygons or centroids, and do any refinement
               | necessary. For example, I'm curious to try this out to
               | detect crosswalks, and those need to be glued to the
               | highway being crossed.
               | 
               | Hi, I didn't know about this possibility. I should have
               | better researched what were the different options. I will
               | be taking a look on implementing this approach.
        
           | Aachen wrote:
           | I tried this out like a week ago and I was wondering the same
           | so I tried to upload and... it's definitely uploading crap. I
           | don't know what to tell you but all the clearly square ones I
           | saw have bends on the straight lines
           | 
           | It's useful for finding ones that haven't been mapped but not
           | for drawing them. It can get the 4 corners pretty accurate
           | for pools that are square, many are half round at the ends
           | though
        
             | daavoo wrote:
             | Hi, sorry if the project or narrative gave the wrong
             | impression but my idea was to show the potential, not
             | providing a polished solution.
             | 
             | As disclaimed in the demo and code, the example model was
             | trained only with data from Galicia on a Google Colab. A
             | robust enough models would require more data and compute.
             | 
             | > it's definitely uploading crap.
             | 
             | What was uploaded was what a human approved.
             | 
             | > It's useful for finding ones that haven't been mapped but
             | not for drawing them. It can get the 4 corners pretty
             | accurate for pools that are square, many are half round at
             | the ends though
             | 
             | I couldn't dedicate enough time on the best way to refine
             | the predictions, but happy to hear and discuss any ideas.
             | 
             | Ideas I have are:
             | 
             | - Try an oriented bounding box model instead of detection +
             | segmentation. It will not be useful for not square shapes
             | but will definitely generate more accurate predictions. -
             | Build some sort of https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/RANSAC
             | that tries to fits rectangles and/or other shapes as an
             | step to postprocess the predicted mask.
        
               | Aachen wrote:
               | > What was uploaded was what a human approved.
               | 
               | Yes, I hit approve on the best one because I was curious
               | to see the actual final polygon. (I then went and fixed
               | it.) You wrote above / I was responding to:
               | 
               | >> This is a because the polygon is drawn as a mask in
               | order to overlay it on the image. The actual polygon
               | being uploaded doesn't have the wobbly features.
               | 
               | Now you're saying it's my fault for selecting a wonky
               | outline. What's it gonna be, is the preview bad or the
               | resulting polygons? (And the reviewer is bad for
               | approving anything at all?)
               | 
               | > my idea was to show the potential, not providing a
               | polished solution
               | 
               | I can appreciate that, but if you're aware of this then
               | it shouldn't have a button that unauthenticated users can
               | press to upload the result to the production database.
               | OSM has testing infrastructure if you want to also demo
               | that part (https://master.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/ is
               | a version I found on
               | https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/API_v0.6)
        
               | daavoo wrote:
               | > You wrote above / I was responding to:
               | 
               | I apologize. I read `it's uploading` and misunderstood
               | like you were saying the tool itself was uploading
               | things.
               | 
               | > is the preview bad or the resulting polygons? (And the
               | reviewer is bad for approving anything at all?)
               | 
               | It can be one, the other, or both.
               | 
               | I was replying to a reference about a specific example in
               | the blog post.
               | 
               | In that example, I see wobbly features due to rendering
               | alongside the edges that make it look like the polygon is
               | going to have dozens of nodes. Then, there is an over-
               | simplification of the polygon around the top-right corner
               | (which I didn't consider an error based on my criteria
               | from reviewing manually created pools).
               | 
               | > And the reviewer is bad for approving anything at all?
               | 
               | I didn't say that. I was trying to assert that the UI/X
               | can be improved to better show what will be uploaded.
               | 
               | > but if you're aware of this then it shouldn't have a
               | button that unauthenticated users can press to upload the
               | result to the production database
               | 
               | You are right. I was manually reviewing the profile
               | created for the demo every day, but I didn't realize the
               | impact/reach until I saw the first comments here. As soon
               | as I read the first comment, I shut down the demo.
               | 
               | As I said in other comments, I will make alternative
               | changes to the demo.
               | 
               | > if you want to also demo that part
               | (https://master.apis.dev.openstreetmap.org/ is a version
               | I found on https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/API_v0.6)
               | 
               | Thanks for the suggestion, I don't know why I didn't
               | thought about that earlier.
        
         | AyyEye wrote:
         | Replied to daavoo, can I suggest adding a tag for ML originated
         | features? As other comments have stated, it is likely that
         | these tools are already being used (potentially semi-
         | automatically) and this could help prevent them from polluting
         | the DB wholesale.
        
       | orbital-decay wrote:
       | Experiencing automated mapping first-hand makes me extremely wary
       | of it. I've travelled across South America on a motorcycle, and
       | OSM has a large amount of edits there that look automated
       | (particularly in Brazil), making it barely usable in certain
       | places. I'm not even talking about rural roads but also fairly
       | large cities.
        
         | pastage wrote:
         | Armchair mapping will always result in bad maps. I usually try
         | to use mapwithme and leave photo notes describing issues when I
         | travel, I take photos of fences and play grounds, other people
         | take scenic pictures.
         | 
         | So it might very well be automatic mapping, just saying that I
         | know my armchair mapping can be pretty bad when I gonand check
         | it OTG.
        
           | Aachen wrote:
           | By bad, do you mean incomplete or that it's often actually
           | wrong? Because my experience is that it's very complementary
           | and I see things on aerial that I didn't irl and of course
           | also vice versa. Mapping from the air seems to work well to
           | me
           | 
           | North Korea should be an interesting example, I guess we have
           | no chance of anyone commenting on it but there's people
           | who've been mapping it from actual satellite imagery, so very
           | poor quality compared to the airplane-based georeferenced
           | photographs we're used to in most countries. If armchair
           | mapping makes bad maps, that will be the best example to have
           | someone check out, but alas. (The visitor-accessible parts
           | may not count as much because a mapper could have visited
           | those)
        
       | pierotofy wrote:
       | Worked on something similar a few months ago (albeit for smaller
       | scale geographic data): https://github.com/uav4geo/GeoDeep
        
         | daavoo wrote:
         | Hi there! That is some cool work, happy to chat and discuss
         | ideas for collaboration :)
        
       | qwertox wrote:
       | Google would not allow this, but Mapbox seems to be OK with this,
       | if it is used for non-commercial purposes or OSM, and only if
       | their satellite data is used (not their vector data):
       | 1.6. No Tracing, Deriving, or Extracting. Customer shall not
       | trace or otherwise derive or extract content, data
       | and/or information from the Service Offerings except that
       | Customer may use Studio or third-party            software to
       | trace Mapbox Maps solely comprised of satellite imagery to
       | produce derivative vector            datasets (i) for non-
       | commercial purposes or (ii) for OpenStreetMap.
       | 
       | Kind of nice from them.
        
         | mtmail wrote:
         | Bing also allows OpenStreetMap mappers to use their aerial
         | imagery for tracing.
         | https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bing_Maps#Aerial_imagery
        
       | ecommerceguy wrote:
       | We used to call this heads up digitizing.
        
       | anakaine wrote:
       | Id love to see a bit more detail on fine tuning SAM/2 to do
       | things like detect pools or solar arrays. Both these are
       | fantastic things to have mapped for community resilience
       | projects, but I've not been able to follow along with SAM2 fine
       | tuning at all.
       | 
       | I've got a Yolov8 model which does quite a good job of finding
       | and segmenting out solar, but the edges are absolutely horrible
       | and require an insane amount t of work to clean up. I've seen
       | results from SAM2 that has been trained, and the results look
       | massively better.
       | 
       | Wouldn't put these in OSM due to stereo6 comment about accuracy,
       | but I could sure use them elsewhere.
        
       | throwaway346434 wrote:
       | Oh, great re swimming pools - solar detection is another one on
       | my list to have a go at.
       | 
       | I feel like a lot of the pushback here is an idea that OSM can
       | grow from hand mapping; but as someone with 60k changesets over a
       | decade... no amount of human volunteer enthusiasm is to the point
       | that it can "solve" mapping at a global scale to the standards
       | that make the map data overwhelmingly useful.
       | 
       | I feel we need a scalable framework for importing and maintaining
       | data: ways to annotate the quality, sources, where to report bugs
       | in the data source, and guidance to consumers. Ie if I want to
       | query "businesses of type X" "mapped by humans within the last
       | year", I can sort of do that with "check date".
       | 
       | But who knows how many of those attributes are accurate, or if
       | the mapper who checked only checked one aspect (name/location)?
       | Would it be better to ingest alltheplaces opening hours to
       | maintain this data automatically, every month?
       | 
       | Would it be better as a data consumer if I could filter to only
       | certain sources I trust? Or I could use data - even if the
       | polygons aren't perfect or similar, even with known limitations
       | like "poi inferred by AI".
        
         | cinntaile wrote:
         | Solar might be problematic. How will you discern between a
         | solar panel and a solar thermal collector? They look
         | practically the same but their function is very different.
        
         | Freak_NL wrote:
         | > Would it be better to ingest alltheplaces opening hours to
         | maintain this data automatically, every month?
         | 
         | Alltheplaces plays dangerously loose with (also) using
         | resources clearly marked as copyrighted and protected with an
         | API-key. As it is that project can serve as inspiration, but it
         | is incompatible with OpenStreetMap.
        
           | matkoniecz wrote:
           | Can you give any specific example?
           | 
           | I am currently working on project that would use ATP and I am
           | vetting its spiders. So far I have not found any bad ones.
           | 
           | If you found one then knowing which one you mean would be
           | highly useful!
           | 
           | (BTW, just marking something as copyrighted does not make it
           | copyrighted)
        
             | Freak_NL wrote:
             | Why ask? An example was pointed out in this thread you
             | started:
             | 
             | https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/what-you-think-
             | about-i...
             | 
             | There are probably more spiders configured to do this.
             | 
             | > (BTW, just marking something as copyrighted does not make
             | it copyrighted)
             | 
             | For OpenStreetMap, it means that at the very least the
             | Licensing Working Group should have a look. When you
             | combine a copyright claim with directly using a third-party
             | API with an API-key without clearance from the owner,
             | doubly so. This was already pointed out to you in that
             | thread.
             | 
             | Currently, only spiders which directly use the websites and
             | domains of the shop chain (or its owner) are cleared for
             | use.
             | 
             | Take heed of what Andy Townsend from OpenStreetMap's Data
             | Working Group wrote:
             | 
             | > OSM has traditionally avoided situations where it could
             | be legally challenged by people with more money to pay
             | lawyers than we have, even if, in a fair and balanced
             | process OSM might actually be in the right; for the simple
             | reason being that any legal cost could far outweigh other
             | costs of runnng the project.
             | 
             | You are a senior mapper in our project. You know this.
        
               | matkoniecz wrote:
               | > Why ask? An example was pointed out in this thread you
               | started:
               | 
               | Because I wanted to know is there any other known case.
               | 
               | > For OpenStreetMap, it means that at the very least the
               | Licensing Working Group should have a look.
               | 
               | and they were asked about first-party sources, that is
               | why I am looking through ATP to check whether specific
               | spiders are using only first party-sources or not
               | 
               | > Currently, only spiders which directly use the websites
               | and domains of the shop chain (or its owner) are cleared
               | for use.
               | 
               | AFAIK this is not accurate - for example if they would
               | host their data at github pages website without custom
               | domain it does not change things
        
         | matkoniecz wrote:
         | > Would it be better to ingest alltheplaces opening hours to
         | maintain this data automatically, every month?
         | 
         | I am working on such project
         | 
         | See https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/what-you-think-
         | about-i...
         | 
         | https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mateusz%20Konieczny%20-%2...
         | 
         | https://codeberg.org/matkoniecz/list_how_openstreetmap_can_b...
        
       | ySteeK wrote:
       | Wait, we are not mapping things we see in sattelite images, we
       | are mapping things that have ground truth.
       | 
       | Please do not contribute anything ai-fantasized
        
         | moffkalast wrote:
         | Satelite images are the ground truth OSM is traced on. And the
         | quality of those tracings varies wildly at times, I've had to
         | fix weirdly offset shores that had roads on them placed on the
         | sea on more than one occasion.
         | 
         | If this can be somewhat consistent then it'll probably do
         | better than the average OSM contributor. Something like
         | segmenting houses, roads, bodies of water, comparing against
         | current data and highlighting inconsistencies for correction
         | would be a good start though.
        
           | mistrial9 wrote:
           | > it'll probably do better than the average OSM contributor
           | 
           | let us reconsider this statement, please. An unexpected and
           | powerful effect of the Openstreetmap project is iterated
           | convergence on ground truth. No person is perfect in
           | contribution, and few people are consistently terrible.
           | Revision and updates, common vision towards accuracy, an
           | appreciation of cooperative contributions.. have astounded
           | the public and humbled critics repeatedly. Not because every
           | key stroke and mouse click is perfect, but because iteration
           | and plural sources have converged in a usable system of
           | software and data.
           | 
           | AI inputs to Openstreetmap are not new, as noted in other
           | comments. The path forward is bright, useful to humans and
           | participatory in the Openstreetmap project.
        
       | gpvos wrote:
       | Can Mozilla please focus on making a good browser?
        
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