[HN Gopher] Feral pig meat transmits rare bacteria
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Feral pig meat transmits rare bacteria
        
       Author : abawany
       Score  : 147 points
       Date   : 2025-03-19 17:17 UTC (4 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (arstechnica.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (arstechnica.com)
        
       | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
       | Interestingly, on the front page right now is a discussion titled
       | "The Origin of the Pork Taboo"
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43410885
        
         | fxtentacle wrote:
         | And this article says "study from Saudi Arabia, where Brucella
         | is endemic", which I'd say would be a pretty compelling reason
         | not to eat pigs in Saudi Arabia.
        
           | jajko wrote:
           | I presume you know nothing about islam, but pigs are off the
           | table (and kitchen) without exception. I don't think there is
           | a way to buy it there, same as beef in India for example
           | (even pork I never saw on any menu some 15 years ago when
           | spending 6 months backpacking there, and I saw literally 1
           | pig altogether in those 6 months).
        
             | Hojojo wrote:
             | From how I understand it, pigs became taboo _because_ they
             | are a common disease vector. There 's nothing fundamentally
             | different between pigs, horses, and cows/bulls which would
             | otherwise motivate banning one over the other. One could
             | apply the same thing to cows in India, where the benefits
             | of keeping cows (milk, dung, labor) outweigh the benefits
             | of slaughtering them for food while also being more
             | sustainable.
        
               | frontfor wrote:
               | Yes, since there's nothing more powerful than religious
               | belief, how do you teach a population to avoid doing a
               | particular risky thing? By codifying it as an iron-clad
               | zero-tolerance word-of-god holy decree, so much so that
               | adherents aren't even cognisant of the mechanism at play.
        
               | hoseyor wrote:
               | You're being rather spiteful and conceited with your
               | hindsight. For all intents and purposes, the risk to
               | people in the past of losing anyone to some disease they
               | didn't even know existed, which was not only disabling
               | but also drained resources and energy from the whole
               | group, would have simply not allowed "non-iron-clad"
               | rules that could have led to the total destruction of the
               | tribe/group.
               | 
               | Those religious iron-clad decrees could very well be the
               | only reason any of us exist at all, because it allowed
               | people to not just forget, e.g., that time when the tribe
               | ate a big pig feast and 99% of the tribe died.
        
               | ttyprintk wrote:
               | I would say that these kinds of religious edicts
               | discourage investigation and development. The authority
               | to elaborate on dietary taboos is then an expert on an
               | ancient language, (trying to tell if an animal is "cloven
               | hoof" by a murky description) rather than a scientist.
               | Any God not spiteful nor conceited would want us to learn
               | how to boil water; to learn by using thought.
        
               | sorokod wrote:
               | > how do you teach a population to avoid doing a
               | particular risky thing?
               | 
               | Why should health risk vectors be framed as religious
               | prohibitions? Shouldn't accumulated observations and
               | common sense, developed since the early Iron Age, be
               | sufficient?
               | 
               | For example, in Judaism, the prohibition of pork
               | consumption [1] is completely unrelated to health risks.
               | Alternatively, are Christians immune to Brucellosis?
               | 
               | [1] https://mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0311.htm
        
               | graemep wrote:
               | > For example, in Judaism, the prohibition of pork
               | consumption [1] is completely unrelated to health risks.
               | Alternatively, are Christians immune to Brucellosis?
               | 
               | Possibly at much lower risk. It appears that this
               | particular dangerous form of brucellosis is not even
               | distributed across regions and this case seems to related
               | to feral rather than farmed pork.
               | 
               | The Greeks in the eastern Mediterranean at the time did
               | eat pork, presumably without a high disease risk, so I
               | would guess the risk was lower in the populations and
               | places from which non-Jewish early Christians came.
        
               | sorokod wrote:
               | Not an epidemiologist and will deffer to you on
               | brucellosis distribution.
               | 
               | From religious perspective, the prohibition was lifted by
               | divine decree somewhere in the 1st century (since Peter,
               | first-century Jew living in Judea, is mentioned).
               | Reported in Acts 10:
               | 
               | ... Peter went up on the roof to pray.
               | 
               | 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, but
               | while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance.
               | 
               | 11 He saw heaven open and something like a large sheet
               | being let down to earth by its four corners.
               | 
               | 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals and
               | reptiles of the earth, as well as birds of the air.
               | 
               | 13 Then a voice said to him: "Get up, Peter, kill and
               | eat!"
               | 
               | 14 "No, Lord!" Peter answered. "I have never eaten
               | anything impure or unclean."
               | 
               | 15 The voice spoke to him a second time: "Do not call
               | anything impure that God has made clean."
               | 
               | ---
               | 
               | https://biblehub.com/acts/10.htm
        
               | bentley wrote:
               | Well, this divine decree isn't talking about food. It's
               | actually a metaphor for Christianity opening its doors to
               | Gentile converts instead of just Jews. This is how Peter
               | himself interpreted it:
               | 
               | 27 As Peter talked with him, he went inside and found
               | many people gathered together.
               | 
               | 28 He said to them, "You know how unlawful it is for a
               | Jew to associate with a foreigner or visit him. But God
               | has shown me that I should not call any man impure or
               | unclean.
               | 
               | 29 So when I was invited, I came without objection. I
               | ask, then, why have you sent for me?"
               | 
               | ...
               | 
               | 34 Then Peter began to speak: "I now truly understand
               | that God does not show favoritism,
               | 
               | 35 but welcomes those from every nation who fear Him and
               | do what is right.
               | 
               | 36 He has sent this message to the people of Israel,
               | proclaiming the gospel of peace through Jesus Christ, who
               | is Lord of all."
               | 
               | A better passage would be Mark 9:17, which explicitly
               | talks about food:
               | 
               | 14 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen
               | to me, everyone, and understand this.
               | 
               | 15 Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into
               | them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that
               | defiles them."
               | 
               | 17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his
               | disciples asked him about this parable.
               | 
               | 18 "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that
               | nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile
               | them?
               | 
               | 19 For it doesn't go into their heart but into their
               | stomach, and then out of the body." _(In saying this,
               | Jesus declared all foods clean.)_
               | 
               | 20 He went on: "What comes out of a person is what
               | defiles them.
               | 
               | 21 For it is from within, out of a person's heart, that
               | evil thoughts come--sexual immorality, theft, murder,
               | 
               | 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy,
               | slander, arrogance and folly.
               | 
               | 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person."
        
               | sorokod wrote:
               | > It's actually a metaphor for Christianity opening its
               | doors to Gentile converts instead of just Jews.
               | 
               | Yep,come and bring your yummy pork and fried calamari
               | metaphor.
        
               | pton_xd wrote:
               | > For example, in Judaism, the prohibition of pork
               | consumption [1] is completely unrelated to health risks.
               | 
               | What's the reasoning behind not eating pork then? The
               | link you posted calls pigs "unclean" right?
        
               | amanaplanacanal wrote:
               | It's currently unknown where the prohibition came from.
               | It seems to have appeared during the finalization of the
               | Torah sometime between the second and fifth centuries
               | BCE. Pigs were widely grown and eaten in that period.
        
               | lupusreal wrote:
               | What's the reason for all their other rules? People
               | fixate on pork because that's the one rule which seems to
               | have a rational basis, but the Jewish religion (and
               | others) have _tons_ of rules which are much wackier. What
               | 's the basis for their rule banning the mixing of wool
               | with linen, but permitting either or by themselves?
               | 
               | Probably it was some ancient schizo that got his
               | harebrained nonsense written down, or it was just a power
               | flex over adherents as cults do, or some mix of the two.
               | Assuming that these religious rules must have an
               | underlying rational basis is foolish. Given the context
               | of the pork rule, being surrounded by hundreds of
               | completely wacky rules, it seems most likely to me that
               | the pork rule was completely arbitrary and turned out to
               | be "correct" by accident.
        
               | graemep wrote:
               | That explains why such rules are beneficial, but does not
               | explain how such rules should come about.
               | 
               | They date back thousands of years when no one knew the
               | mechanisms so its not deliberate. It could be evolution
               | of cultures - in that groups that followed certain rules
               | survived better.
               | 
               | The first problem I see with that is that the two main
               | religions that ban pork also have a lot of other rules
               | about food, dress and grooming, sexual behaviour, and
               | lots of other things. SOme of them (hygiene rules, for
               | example) are beneficial, but how do you explain the rest.
               | SOme might have less obvious benefits in the context of
               | the society they originated in - but all?
               | 
               | The other is that you do not need rules to be religious.
               | Social norms are just as powerful. The persistence of
               | circumcision in the US illustrates this. It is still
               | common (usual?) despite the largest religion not only not
               | requiring, but its scriptures specifically state it is
               | not a religious requirement (and dispenses with the
               | entire set of detailed rules - retaining only some more
               | general ones).
        
               | kragen wrote:
               | Horses and cows have much better-smelling poop than hogs
               | do, and they generally won't eat human poop, rotting
               | garbage, fallen soldiers on battlefields, or small
               | children that happen to trip and fall. Hogs will eat all
               | of these.
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_toilet
               | 
               | We don't really know the origin of the taboo, but there
               | are more candidate explanations than just epidemiology.
        
               | jjallen wrote:
               | This is one of the most digusting things I've ever read
               | about. Thank you.
        
               | codr7 wrote:
               | Except pigs have a lot more in common with humans than
               | the others.
               | 
               | Pigs are super intelligent, we have the same blood
               | groups, organ compatibility, piglets smell like newborn
               | babies, their skin is very similar to human skin.
        
               | m0llusk wrote:
               | Actually, there are a number of ways in which pigs and
               | humans share physiology which makes us susceptible to
               | shared disease vectors. Perhaps most obvious is our skin.
               | Pigs and humans are the only land mammals who have what
               | amounts to sea mammal skin, leathery and thick with fat
               | deposits right at the dermis.
        
           | hoseyor wrote:
           | It's crazy to think that a religious dictate of Islam and
           | Judaism may have its origins in not cooking meat thoroughly
           | or good practices during dressing and butchering.
        
             | h0l0cube wrote:
             | Those religious dictates were well before germ theory.
        
               | 34679 wrote:
               | That's kind of the point.
               | 
               | Man eats pork. Man gets sick. Man believes God made him
               | sick for eating pork.
        
               | h0l0cube wrote:
               | Not really the point. The modern "practices during
               | dressing and butchering" highlighted by the GGP were
               | based on the understanding of the germ theory of disease.
        
             | aprilthird2021 wrote:
             | Many religious dictates of the two religions with a
             | standing religious law and polity had a usefulness in the
             | past and a second, slightly different usefulness in the
             | modern era of loneliness, alienation, lack of identity,
             | etc.
        
             | prmoustache wrote:
             | Not at all.
             | 
             | They had identified a global health issue and a potential
             | source without necessarily knowing all the details. Banning
             | pork seemed reasonnable if they couldn't make sure people
             | don't get sick after eating it.
        
             | usrusr wrote:
             | What's crazy about that? Religion used to be long term
             | knowledge encoding (multigenerational). Evolved knowledge,
             | the group that stumbled into a pig taboo just happened to
             | be more successful than the group without. In an area where
             | pigs are better not eaten, either the former would
             | eventually replace the latter or the advantageous knowledge
             | spreads. I'd consider it crazy to think of (the roots of)
             | religion to be anything else.
        
               | aprilthird2021 wrote:
               | > Evolved knowledge, the group that stumbled into a pig
               | taboo just happened to be more successful than the group
               | without
               | 
               | This doesn't really track though. Because by this logic,
               | polygamous religions would have overtaken monogamous
               | ones. Or religions like Jainism and Buddhism would have
               | not lasted as long as they did. Religions are not solely
               | evolutionary, nor are the customs and traditions of
               | cultures over time. They aren't genetic traits that
               | evolutionary theory applies to them.
               | 
               | Also consider, nothing about Judaism is disadvantageous
               | by your logic but it has become a small minority religion
               | largely as a result of persecution over the ages. There's
               | not an evolutionary aspect there.
        
               | usrusr wrote:
               | > Because by this logic, polygamous religions would have
               | overtaken monogamous ones
               | 
               | Would they? Are societies where children are hardly more
               | than a number to their fathers necessarily more
               | successful, more stable?
               | 
               | Unlike genetic traits, religions and other cultural
               | traits are software, not hardware. (yes, genetic traits
               | are information, but so is VHDL). Individuals can change
               | their mind, adapt the ways of a different group, not
               | possible with genes.
               | 
               | You point out Judaism, that one's quite an outlier
               | because it's so unaccepting of would be believers who
               | weren't born into it. Turns out forks that do away with
               | that part spread quite far.
        
       | a3w wrote:
       | Was the 'a zombie outbreak game making-of-video' placed in the
       | middle of this article on purpose, or by automatic CMS?
        
         | Nextgrid wrote:
         | Ars seems to have succumbed to this dumbass US trend of putting
         | a random video 3 lines into any news article, since clearly 3
         | lines is too much for today's attention spans.
         | 
         | Edit: it may be a fallback for an ad, according to this forum
         | thread? https://arstechnica.com/civis/threads/ars-video-
         | callisto-pro... Still stupid though - so the user is already
         | costing you money by blocking ads, so how about we waste 10x
         | the money in bandwidth serving up a pointless video?
        
         | xorcist wrote:
         | Ars is perfectly usable without Javascript. Either use Noscript
         | or click the uBo shield and deselect the script tag.
        
           | dharmab wrote:
           | At this point I have uBo disable JS by default and bound a
           | hotkey to turn it on as needed.
        
       | DrNosferatu wrote:
       | How could he afford all this medical care?
        
         | dharmab wrote:
         | Presumably, by buying health insurance.
        
           | DrNosferatu wrote:
           | The lifestyle description seems less affluent than Walter
           | 'Heisenberg' White.
        
             | dharmab wrote:
             | ...I think you've misunderstood how health insurance works.
        
               | sejje wrote:
               | And perhaps television
        
         | hoseyor wrote:
         | My guess is being retired military.
        
         | cowfarts wrote:
         | If old - medicare
         | 
         | If veteran [1] - VA
         | 
         | If indigent - medicaid
         | 
         | [1] not unlikely for a Florida man born in 1945
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | _How could he afford all this medical care?_
         | 
         | Why does it matter? Why introduce a completely off topic
         | question?
        
           | inetknght wrote:
           | This isn't such an off topic discussion -- dealing with
           | health issues certainly does lead to discussing health
           | insurance.
        
         | alistairSH wrote:
         | Article stated he's a pastor. It's likely the church where he
         | preaches provides insurance.
        
       | kragen wrote:
       | The clickbait headline should be replaced by one that somewhere
       | mentions the word "brucellosis", because that's what he had. We
       | aren't talking about exotica like meningococcemia, ehrlichiosis,
       | or meloidosis here.
        
         | ttyprintk wrote:
         | I feel like in the case of bacterial meningitis, they would
         | have. Would you rather see, "Brucellosis hits goat farmer, but
         | not from where you expect!"
        
         | dbcooper wrote:
         | The cattle all have brucellosis, We'll get through somehow
        
           | pfdietz wrote:
           | Thank you, Warren.
        
         | wirrbel wrote:
         | ah, thanks, that isn't extremely exotic.
        
         | dillydogg wrote:
         | There are between 100-200 cases of brucellosis in the US each
         | year, so I would call that rare. It's common worldwide, but not
         | where this patient lives. Also, the species of Brucella is a
         | less common one in the US. Erlichiosis is closer to 1000 per
         | year.
        
           | donnachangstein wrote:
           | A lot of things that are rare in the US, e.g. trichinosis,
           | are still endemic in Europe. Something like > 50% of pigs in
           | Eastern Europe are infected while there are < 20 human cases
           | per year in the US because of better agricultural standards.
           | Part of the reason you can eat a medium rare pork chop in the
           | US and not die. I love bacon.
        
             | TheSpiceIsLife wrote:
             | 2021 data from the European Centre for Disease Prevention
             | and Control:
             | 
             | Bulgaria and Croatia had the highest rates of
             | trichinellosis at 0.42 cases per 100,000 population,
             | accounting for 58% of all cases reported in 2021. Taking
             | those two countries gether and extrapolateing to whole US
             | population of 3400 hundred thousand (340 million) would be
             | 1428 cases - definitely much higher that <20, which would
             | be something like 0.0002 per 100,000.
             | 
             | The total number of reported infections in 2021 was 79
             | cases for the whole European Union / European Economic Area
             | was 79 cases for a total population of 4500 hundred
             | thousand (450 million), an infection rate of 0.02 cases per
             | 100,000.
             | 
             | Discounting the two worst countries would reduce the number
             | to about 40 cases per 4500 hundred thousand population
             | would bring the rate of infection to something like 0.008 -
             | not entirely too far from the US.
             | 
             | https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/AE
             | R...
        
           | kragen wrote:
           | It's kind of rare, just not in the way I was hoping for when
           | the headline tricked me into clicking it.
        
           | MillironX wrote:
           | Maybe semantics, but _Brucella suis_ isn 't a "rare
           | bacteria," it's a rare cause of a rare (human) disease in the
           | US. _B. suis_ is endemic in feral pig populations.
        
         | bigstrat2003 wrote:
         | The headline would be far less meaningful for most people if it
         | said that. The vast majority of people would have no idea what
         | "brucellosis" even is.
        
           | kragen wrote:
           | You generally don't make utterances _less_ understandable by
           | _adding_ words.
        
             | bigstrat2003 wrote:
             | It was definitely not clear to me that you just wanted to
             | add words. I took you as meaning that you wanted the
             | headline to be "Feral pig must transmits brucellosis",
             | which would be significantly less clear.
        
       | larusso wrote:
       | It's somewhat scary that it still can take years to find the
       | route cause for these kinds of infections. Two years back I had a
       | month stretch in stomach pains. The worst I ever had. I had this
       | on and off for 2-4 years. Happened once a year and was gone. I
       | went to multiple doctors and did bloodtests etc. I then had a
       | Colonoscopy and Gastroscopy. They want some scared tissue in my
       | duodenum. Reason was some bacteria or fungi which they where then
       | able to test for. Wich is funny because they did all kinds of
       | bloodtests before ... Long story short, I received a special
       | antibiotic and everything was fine. My theory was that I eat
       | something problematic while being in Egypt around 2018.
        
         | hackyhacky wrote:
         | Which antibiotic did they give you?
        
           | larusso wrote:
           | Uff sorry would need to check. It's been a few years already
           | since I got the treatment.
        
           | cpgxiii wrote:
           | It could have been Rifaximin (brand name Xifaxan), which is a
           | somewhat standard "special" antibiotic for gut issues.
        
         | petre wrote:
         | I read about a guy getting _iraquibacter_ from desert dust in
         | Egypt and getting treated with phage therapy by his wife.
         | Needless to say I 'll avoid Egypt.
         | 
         | https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/08/health/phage-superbug-killer-...
        
           | skellera wrote:
           | That's an amazing story. The wife really gathered together
           | all the right people to create a phage treatment to save her
           | husband's life. Great job on all the doctors and scientists
           | that figured out how to make it so quickly.
        
             | AStonesThrow wrote:
             | To my intense interest recently, I learned that the word
             | _sarcophagus_ literally means "eater of flesh" and indeed
             | has Eucharistic connotation, but of course most commonly
             | applied to Pharaonic caskets.
        
         | Tade0 wrote:
         | Sometimes it's "just" _helicobacter pylori_.
         | 
         | I had a particularly widespread infection a while ago, so my GP
         | prescribed Amoxicillin.
         | 
         | Suddenly the stomach pains, which used to be a regular thing
         | for me whenever I ate something hard to digest, disappeared
         | altogether.
         | 
         | Turns out this antibiotic is part of the concoction they have
         | you take to deal with stomach ulcers, as it deals with the
         | bacteria responsible for them.
         | 
         | I have no confirmation that was indeed the case here aside from
         | a previously diagnosed chronic doudendum inflammation, but the
         | difference was night and day, so this is my working theory.
        
           | petre wrote:
           | You also need a proton pump inhibitor taken one hour before
           | the antibiotic and before food for a more effective
           | treatment.
           | 
           | The chronic duodenum inflamation could also be linked to gut
           | microbiota depletion. I had mild lactose intolerance for
           | years until I took probiotics for a few months and started
           | eating whole milk youghurt (as unfermented milk the question)
           | as part of my regular diet. It needs to be real yoghurt, not
           | the phony sweeter one with corn starch, sugar or fruit added
           | to it. Also UHT milk might screw up your gut microbiota. Make
           | sure you take probiotics during and after the antibiotic
           | treatment.
        
             | AStonesThrow wrote:
             | Seconding this.
             | 
             | I'm unsure of interactions between antibiotics and
             | detrimental gut flora such as _Candida albicans_ , but
             | Western medicine pretends that doesn't exist anyway
        
         | mertleee wrote:
         | After having a seemingly "random" bout of cdiff after receiving
         | a highly potent antibiotic for a "random" salivary gland
         | infection - colonoscopies and antibiotics really scare me.
         | 
         | I believe the salivary gland infection was a result of some
         | non-covid illness I had that may have been linked to some odd
         | vaccine side effect or my tanked immune system.
         | 
         | Gut stuff is so important.
        
       | taosx wrote:
       | I ate a lot of such boar meat last year in Greece, it instantly
       | became my favorite due to the hardness and taste but based on
       | this I may avoid it for the foreseeable future.
        
         | hoseyor wrote:
         | You have nothing to be concerned with if it is cooked
         | thoroughly to safe temperatures. So anything that is slow
         | cooked over time would be safe if cooked to 145deg for whole
         | and 160deg for ground meat.
         | 
         | The subject person may have undercooked it or likely even come
         | in contact with it while dressing a hog, i.e., touching an eye,
         | scratching the nose, or even touching something that later
         | caused cross contamination.
        
           | Loughla wrote:
           | Every outbreak story that has ever been printed has that as a
           | background fact. When eating meat, make sure it's cooked
           | thoroughly. I love a good, high quality, rare steak when I
           | know the origin of the animal. But literally everything else
           | gets cooked very, very thoroughly.
        
             | sim7c00 wrote:
             | in a lot of places ppl will never ever touch rare meat. its
             | disgusting to them, unsanitary. my wife loves sushi but
             | refuses to eat rare fish. she says to her its like eating
             | litteral sh/t. conditioning from where she was raised. (she
             | eats the rice n cucumber rolls haha)
             | 
             | we cook salmon so thoroughly it makes fried chicken look
             | raw :'). God bless spices!
             | 
             | Id never recommend eating raw meat. I worked at a
             | distribution butchery for super markets in a country that
             | arguably has one of the cleanest and strictest pipelines
             | for such stuff and i'll tell u. its just people packing ur
             | stuff.. its incredibly easy for a chain of events to happen
             | to get properly sourced meat infected with pretty much
             | anyhting. many opportunities along the route from slaughter
             | to packaging etc.
             | 
             | its not gross or badly managed, just how it is with humans
             | handling things, heat needed during the process, many
             | transports and different handoffs during production
             | process.
             | 
             | so yeah, cook it n cook it good is all i can say. dont
             | trust some sticker on a package to tell u its safer than
             | somethin else
        
               | caseyohara wrote:
               | "Rare" fish is always a bad idea, but perhaps you meant
               | "raw", which is different.
               | 
               | Raw fish like used in sushi/sashimi is generally safe
               | because the fish is flash frozen, which is as effective
               | as thorough cooking for killing parasites.
        
               | pfdietz wrote:
               | Flash freezing may kill multicellular parasites, but I
               | don't believe it will kill bacteria.
        
               | jnwatson wrote:
               | Raw fish is flash frozen in the US. Not necessarily so in
               | other countries. Be careful eating sushi outside the
               | US/Japan.
        
               | scheme271 wrote:
               | Ahi/Tuna doesn't have to be flash frozen in the US.
               | There's an FDA exception for it.
        
               | geophile wrote:
               | I (an American -- don't blame me, I voted for Harris)
               | traveled to New Brunswick a few years ago. Went to a pub
               | in St. Johns and ordered a burger, medium rare. The
               | waitress informed me that they can't do that. By law, for
               | public health reasons, ground meet served by restaurants
               | must be cooked at a temperature that rules out even
               | medium rare.
        
               | lagniappe wrote:
               | Please don't use HN for this type of remark, we're just
               | nerds here.
        
               | rsynnott wrote:
               | That's the case in many countries. Rare ground beef is a
               | very different proposition to a rare steak. The reason
               | that a lump of rare beef is safe(ish) is that bacteria
               | are not good at migrating into the muscle tissue; if
               | there's something undesirable present it will likely be
               | on the surface and is destroyed by cooking. But once you
               | make ground beef, all bets are off; if there was, say, E.
               | coli present on the surface, it's all over the place now.
        
               | briandear wrote:
               | Did Harris propose something relevant in Canadian meat
               | cooking practices? I'm confused how who you voted for has
               | any relevance to meat practices.
               | 
               | More relevant, does that mean steak tartar is illegal in
               | Canada? A person willing to buy uncooked ground beef is
               | not allowed to buy it from someone willing to serve it?
               | 
               | Interesting article:
               | https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/medium-rare-burgers-
               | are...
        
             | roxolotl wrote:
             | So I preface this by saying there's 0 evidence that chronic
             | wasting disease can target humans.
             | 
             | The one thing you can't kill by cooking are prions. I've
             | had a good deal of venison from regions where chronic
             | wasting disease is now prevalent and whenever I'm reminded
             | of its existence I get a tiny bit of fear that it's just
             | lurking waiting. All the prion death stories out there are
             | horrifying and random.
        
               | kubectl_h wrote:
               | There are researchers out there investigating a potential
               | link from CWD tainted meat consumption to CJD clusters.
               | From what I've read it's a tenuous correlation at best. I
               | really hope they don't find anything. If CWD jumps to
               | either humans or cattle it's going to call for some
               | really tough decisions on what to do with these deer
               | populations.
        
               | xeromal wrote:
               | It'll have to be like the chicken flu cullings. Gonna be
               | brutal. I think it spread to GA my home state finally
               | even though I believe it originated in Colorado?
        
           | bigstrat2003 wrote:
           | Why would the temperature differ for ground vs whole meat?
           | Surely the same temperature would have the same ability to
           | kill bacteria no matter the way the meat was processed.
        
             | potato3732842 wrote:
             | Because there's lot of bad stuff that's external to the
             | muscle that can wind up on the surface as a result of the
             | butchering process. When you grind the meat you potentially
             | mix that throughout so you gotta cook it throughout whereas
             | a steak can be eaten raw-ish in the center.
             | 
             | This is how ground beef e-coli outbreaks work. People don't
             | cook their burgers through and get sick.
        
           | potato3732842 wrote:
           | Slow cooking "as practiced" is a VERY safe cooking method for
           | anything sus because people tend to go way hot for internal
           | temp, like 180-205ish (freedom degrees obviously), in order
           | to render the fat.
        
         | jcd000 wrote:
         | You are safe as long as pig meat is cooked well done, which we
         | always do in Greece. But it pays to be aware and careful.
        
           | atmosx wrote:
           | The people of Epirus, Crete, and Central Greece, in
           | particular, have perfected the art of cooking meats like lamb
           | and boar.
        
         | nkrisc wrote:
         | Based on the article it seems the infection likely occurred
         | while he was handling the raw meat. Wear gloves and wash your
         | hands and surfaces well and take precautions to avoid cross-
         | contaminating ingredients that won't be cooked to safe
         | temperatures. Standard kitchen and food safety stuff.
         | 
         | If you're not preparing it yourself, then it could be
         | reasonable to avoid it if you're aren't confident in the
         | preparation.
        
         | gcheong wrote:
         | In the article the person said they had been getting the feral
         | hog meat from a hunter who had gifted him raw meat several
         | times and that he handled it with his bare hands while
         | preparing it and then cooking it an eating it. The doctors
         | surmised it was most likely his handling it with bare hands
         | that was the vector of transmission, not eating the cooked
         | meat.
        
         | taosx wrote:
         | Thank you for all the assurances and suggestions for the
         | future. The meat was cooked very well but the problem I think
         | it's that me and my friends (hunters) were unaware of such a
         | possibility.
         | 
         | We were the ones that brought back, cleaned and prepared the
         | boar with our bare hands with no precautions (we were in the
         | mountains). The only thing that gives me a bit of piece of mind
         | is that several months passed since then and we have no
         | symptoms and I know many other people that have eaten wild boar
         | from that area that have no symptoms.
        
       | throwanem wrote:
       | I knew this man the instant they said he's in his seventies and
       | still taking boar. Who knew Uncle Bram was still kickin' around
       | after all these years?
        
       | jdthedisciple wrote:
       | This should help everyone understand a little better the
       | _origins_ - or perhaps wisdoms - _of the pork taboo_ which was
       | discussed here recently [0]:
       | 
       | Pigs are simply a potpourri of all sorts of bacteria that you
       | don't want in you.
       | 
       | [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43410885
        
         | swampthing wrote:
         | That's not at all the conclusion of the article you linked to.
         | In fact, that theory is discounted by it.
         | 
         | > Price points out, however, that none of these theories fully
         | accounts for the taboo. Pig-rearing, after all, had existed for
         | thousands of years in the region, even in times of drought, and
         | many types of meat can harbor the larvae that cause
         | trichinosis.
         | 
         | > For Price, the key piece of evidence is the sole reason given
         | for the taboo in the biblical text--the fact that the pig "has
         | hooves and does not chew its cud." In other words, it's unlike
         | ruminants. He argues that this harks back to an era when the
         | Israelites were simple pastoralists. As their descendants
         | settled down in towns and cities, raising pigs became a more
         | viable option. "This detracted from the fantasy of living like
         | their ancestors," says Price, prompting Judean priests to ban
         | eating pork.
         | 
         | > Rosenblum argues that the pig taboo only gained special
         | status with the invasion of the Levant by the forces of the
         | Macedonian ruler Alexander the Great in 332 B.C. These European
         | conquerors enjoyed their pork, and pig consumption in the
         | Levant soared. So did tensions between Judeans and their
         | Hellenistic rulers, including the Ptolemaic kings of Egypt and
         | the leaders of the Seleucid Empire based in today's Iraq.
        
       | kazinator wrote:
       | > _Though he couldn't recall the specific hunter who gave him the
       | biohazardous bounty, he remembered handling the raw meat and
       | blood with his bare hands--a clear transmission risk--before
       | cooking and eating it._
       | 
       | Well, of course he could perfectly recall, but he's not going to
       | rat out his friend.
        
       | rvba wrote:
       | > an extremely infectious bacteria
       | 
       | > In the US, there are only about 80 to 140 brucellosis cases
       | reported each year, and they're mostly caused by B. melitensis
       | and B. abortus
       | 
       | The article doesnt seem to be consistent...
        
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