[HN Gopher] EU pushes ahead with Big Tech antitrust enforcement
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       EU pushes ahead with Big Tech antitrust enforcement
        
       Author : giuliomagnifico
       Score  : 75 points
       Date   : 2025-03-21 19:12 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.wsj.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.wsj.com)
        
       | giuliomagnifico wrote:
       | Archive link: https://archive.is/dpHIP
        
         | linusg789 wrote:
         | https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/eu-pushes-ahead-wi...
        
       | bilbo0s wrote:
       | At this point, weakening any American tech company really is a
       | matter of data sovereignty for Europe. That may not be the main
       | reason all this started, but I think recent months have
       | underscored Europe's need, and supercharged Europe's
       | determination in this regard. I'd expect significant changes in
       | EU policies regarding tech companies going forward. Mostly
       | calibrated to decrease American dominance in the sector.
        
         | blibble wrote:
         | personally, I think the way to deal with this is the way the
         | Chinese have done it (very successfully)
         | 
         | if US "gatekeepers" wish to operate in the European market, it
         | will be under license, with a joint venture that is majority
         | controlled by European shareholders, with technology transfer
         | agreements
         | 
         | essentially: using their own greed against them
         | 
         | and if they don't like it, they can operate somewhere else
        
           | apwell23 wrote:
           | Chinese do it to steal IP from their joint venture
        
             | blibble wrote:
             | I would relish the irony of having Google, Microsoft and
             | Facebook complain about IP theft
             | 
             | whilst their AI crawlers plunder any and all copyrighted
             | material ever placed on the internet
        
               | nonethewiser wrote:
               | But other search engines already crawl Google's websites.
               | If we want to call that IP theft. The alleged IP theft
               | against Google would be new and of a different kind than
               | what Google is committing.
               | 
               | Again, if we want to call web crawling IP theft. Which
               | seems dubious.
        
               | bilbo0s wrote:
               | This.
               | 
               | These are the kinds of hypocrisies that I'm talking about
               | when I say that American companies from Amazon to Tesla
               | are also responsible for the worsening fracture between
               | the US and EU. Trump and Vance should not escape
               | responsibility for their share of this fiasco. But this
               | transatlantic break is something that was very much a
               | team effort. And as a team we in the US have been,
               | perhaps unwittingly, working towards this hostility for a
               | long time.
        
           | nonethewiser wrote:
           | You cant have this without a great firewall.
        
             | slt2021 wrote:
             | firewall not needed, just need to remove the way for US
             | companies to make money from advertising in Europe.
             | 
             | as long as ads money gravy train to USA is stopped, USA
             | companies will leave themselves / or comply
        
               | nonethewiser wrote:
               | How do you stop Europeans from accessing the services?
        
               | vkou wrote:
               | You stop the firms from getting paid, not Europeans from
               | accessing those services.
               | 
               | They'll very quickly figure out how to become compliant.
        
               | slt2021 wrote:
               | accessing service is a cost center, no need to block
               | service.
               | 
               | The revenue stream is European companies paying US
               | companies for ads (or rather European firms paying
               | Irish/Dutch subsidiaries of Gogel/Insta/FB for ads).
        
             | vkou wrote:
             | You absolutely can, because the companies providing tech
             | services need to get _paid_ , either from local companies
             | buying ad space, or directly from their users, and you can
             | just block payment to non-compliant firms.
             | 
             | Given America's hostile stance to its former allies, joint
             | ownership and technology transfer agreements as a condition
             | for its firms operating in the EU market sounds more than
             | reasonable. If US firms aren't happy with this, they can
             | always lobby to impose similar restrictions on foreign big
             | tech firms operating in the US...
             | 
             |  _If there were any_.
             | 
             | The problem with flipping the table and starting a trade
             | war is everyone loses... And the correct response to
             | someone starting lose-lose games is tit-for-tat. Maybe big
             | tech firms will think twice before throwing their support
             | for an anti-trade candidate. (They absolutely _could_ have
             | used their position in media to stop this insanity, if they
             | wanted to, but now we all have to lie in the bed they 've
             | made.)
        
             | jimnotgym wrote:
             | How was the US planning to ban Tiktok without a great
             | firewall? I presume they would demand that internet
             | companies don't route their traffic. Stop them locally
             | caching data etc.
        
               | IncreasePosts wrote:
               | Simply make Google and Apple take it down from their app
               | stores, and it would be de facto banned for 95+% of
               | users.
        
               | kmeisthax wrote:
               | America has a Great Firewall, it's called
               | AppleMobileFileIntegrity.kext[0]. The TikTok ban relied
               | heavily on the fact that a social network practically
               | _needs_ to have a mobile app and thus prohibited them
               | from having it. It was less of a  "ban TikTok" bill and
               | more of a "government gets to kick apps off the App
               | Store" bill.
               | 
               | Yes, you could use TikTok on the web; but... have you
               | ever _tried_ using TikTok 's web interface? It's an
               | absolute joke. And on the other end, shipping a webapp
               | subjects you to all sorts of consumer-friendly technical
               | interference like ad blockers and de-cluttering that is
               | intended to make the social network serve the user and
               | not itself.
               | 
               | [0] On Android, TikTok did ship an APK to evade being
               | kicked off Google Play; but that's only slightly more
               | effective than telling people to go run AltStore on a Mac
               | or PC to dev-sign a TikTok IPA that will be missing half
               | the features because Apple doesn't allow certain
               | permissions to be provisioned on free dev accounts.
        
             | fpoling wrote:
             | US surely can remove TikTok from the mobile stores and can
             | even force Apple/Google to release an OS update disabling
             | TikTok. That will be sufficient.
        
             | maciejw wrote:
             | Maybe something as simple as turnover tax would work
        
           | bilbo0s wrote:
           | Yeah. I think regulations of that nature may be coming.
           | 
           | I think in the US, we've put ourselves in a really bad spot.
           | Most will likely blame Trump/Vance, and they definitely
           | deserve their share. But the American tech industry has been
           | contributing its quota towards this break for a long time as
           | well. And we should be honest about that.
           | 
           | Also, I know that no one will want to hear this on HN, but
           | workers at American companies have also not made us any
           | friends in Europe. There is a strong undercurrent of
           | resentment due to some American workers not having the
           | ability to maintain a humble and collaborative demeanor
           | online or IRL.
        
             | blibble wrote:
             | > I think in the US, we've put ourselves in a really bad
             | spot. Most will likely blame Trump/Vance, and they
             | definitely deserve their share. But the American tech
             | industry has been contributing its quota towards this break
             | for a long time as well. And we should be honest about
             | that.
             | 
             | I think that televised meeting with Zelensky was a wake-up
             | call to many people, including myself
             | 
             | we can't allow ourselves to become any more dependent on
             | the country that elected this regime, and not once (because
             | a mistake can be forgiven), but twice
             | 
             | the current dependency also needs to be reduced to ensure
             | the long survival of our societies and way of life
        
           | dmix wrote:
           | The only countries that do this in the world are China and
           | Iran. Russia and India do it partially, such as rules for
           | storing data domestically so they can snoop on it.
           | 
           | Apple has a company called GCBD running their iCloud so the
           | Chinese gov can access it
           | https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-
           | ce...
           | 
           | Google, LinkedIn, Uber, etc left China. Meta refused to do a
           | joint venture so never entered the market. The only big
           | American names who did a joint venture were Apple and Tesl
        
             | ashoeafoot wrote:
             | TikTok?
        
               | dmix wrote:
               | There is no law in America requiring domestic joint
               | ventures.
               | 
               | The Tiktok law gives the US gov power to ban social media
               | companies controlled by a "U.S. foreign adversary" (only
               | 6 countries) and offers the chance for divestment, but
               | doesn't require moving operations to the US. https://en.w
               | ikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Americans_from_Fore...
        
           | throw_a_grenade wrote:
           | The first sector this happens is defence industry, one of the
           | US of A's biggest exports. EU already decided that weapons
           | will need to be at least 65% manufactured in Europe:
           | https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-freeze-us-multi-
           | billion-d...
        
             | jimnotgym wrote:
             | That's what happens when the USA won't let European
             | countries buy the weapons they want
        
         | arrosenberg wrote:
         | Really, it's a matter of overall sovereignty, given where the
         | chips have fallen in the US.
        
         | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
         | I think big tech deserves anti trust regulation and action
         | because it is good for a competitive market that actually puts
         | customers first. They're too big and powerful and abuse their
         | power to hurt fair competition. But I think the type of
         | aggressive action you're talking about - and the motivation to
         | do it solely to weaken America - will open up a lot of
         | destructive actions back and forth.
         | 
         | America choosing to spend less money on Ukraine, pushing for
         | resolution to a conflict that has resulted in mass deaths for
         | Ukrainian males, and renegotiating tariffs doesn't deserve the
         | kind of hysterical overreaction I'm seeing from Europeans. In
         | the end, if it escalates to open warfare on each other's
         | economies rather than a reset of trade agreements, it'll damage
         | both the EU and US to China's benefit.
        
           | surgical_fire wrote:
           | I think EU will be fine. There are plenty other countries to
           | trade with, including China.
           | 
           | China is actually less hostile to EU than US at this point.
        
         | bhelkey wrote:
         | > Mostly calibrated to decrease American dominance in the
         | sector.
         | 
         | If the EU takes actions specifically designed to hurt the US,
         | do you think the US wouldn't respond in kind? This is
         | ironically similar to Trump imposing tariffs on Canada and
         | acting surprised when they imposed tariffs in response.
         | 
         | The relatively free trade between the US and the EU has been
         | mutually beneficial. The number #1 selling car in the EU is
         | made by an American company [1]. And the US is a huge market
         | for luxury European cars [2].
         | 
         | Everyone is better off by being able to choose between a
         | European or an American car rather than being forced to buy
         | domestic.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2023-full-year-
         | euro...
         | 
         | [2]
         | https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0438942EN...
        
           | surgical_fire wrote:
           | > If the EU takes actions specifically designed to hurt the
           | US, do you think the US wouldn't respond in kind?
           | 
           | The US has started the trade war against EU already, with
           | tariffs on steeel/aluminum - assuming they are still active,
           | Trump seemingly lacks cojones to keep tariffs up once others
           | retaliate.
           | 
           | Not to say the active hostility against EU, by threatening to
           | annex Greenland (which is currently a Danish territory), open
           | support for Putin in his aggression against Ukraine (which
           | threatens Europe) and so on.
           | 
           | At this point the US should be seen as a hostile foreign
           | nation by EU. EU is doing well by tightening the screws
           | against US tech giants. Those companies are possibly a threat
           | to essential infrastructure, and should be treated as such
           | too.
        
             | bhelkey wrote:
             | > The US has started the trade war against EU already
             | 
             | On March 12th the US imposed a tariff on steel/aluminum,
             | the EU responded with an tariff of total equivalent value
             | on US steel/aluminum/agricultural products [1].
             | 
             | This is the core of my point, the US created a tariff
             | against the EU, the EU responded in kind.
             | 
             | > the active hostility against EU, by threatening to annex
             | Greenland...[Trump's] aggression against Ukraine
             | 
             | Trump has said concerning things about both Ukraine and
             | Greenland and I don't want to downplay that. That being
             | said, the US is currently sending both weapons and
             | intelligence to Ukraine [2].
             | 
             | In fact, he US has given Ukraine more aid than the EU and
             | all of its member states combined (though less than all of
             | Europe combined) [3].
             | 
             | Being the largest supplier of aid, sending weapons and
             | sharing intelligence with Ukraine is clearly not siding
             | with Russia.
             | 
             | [1] https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/q
             | anda_...
             | 
             | [2] https://www.npr.org/2025/03/12/nx-s1-5324926/u-s-
             | resumes-ukr...
             | 
             | [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/crew8y7pwd5o
        
         | nico42 wrote:
         | It's also a response to the failure of the US to regulate their
         | own companies and apply their own antitrust laws.
        
         | MPSFounder wrote:
         | In any other setting, I would agree. However, most of us here
         | in the US are very unhappy with big tech. The lack of
         | regulation is harming me as a consumer, but as a lobbying-based
         | economy, America affords consumers little to no power. The EU
         | might clearly favor their industries, and be overly aggressive
         | in tech where they lack the momentum America has. The lack of
         | any consumer-oriented support in the US makes me root for the
         | other guy. Sometimes, E2E or USBC for the iphone is something I
         | would argue most Americans are in favor for, but big tech
         | refuses to implement to milk the sheep. Famously, lightning was
         | only kept by Apple for so long because of the revenue it
         | generates as a proprietary cable, despite the abundance of usbc
         | cables. That type of monopolistic practices should be shamed,
         | but we need the EU given America refuses to regulate big Tech.
        
         | eikenberry wrote:
         | Maybe this will finally see European software engineers getting
         | better compensation. The companies might avoid it if they move
         | quickly as the US tech industry is a garbage fire at the moment
         | (from an employee perspective) but that will eventually subside
         | and they'll be competing against US companies again for top
         | talent.
        
       | Braxton1980 wrote:
       | This could lead to more actions by the Trump admin administration
       | against European countries.
       | 
       | Not anti-trust but Cook called Trump to complain about the Irish
       | tax outcome where Apple has to pay something like $14b
       | 
       | https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj4d75zl212o
       | 
       | What happens if tech companies, long seemingly supporting
       | Democrats are wooed by Trump with promises of bullying Europe
       | with more tariffs to stop them from going after American
       | companies.
       | 
       | This would result in tech companies supporting Republicans due to
       | the finanical benefit while controlling the messaging on their
       | platforms
       | 
       | For example "Instagram and Threads will start recommending
       | political content to users in the US." After a few years of
       | either limiting it or providing an option(? Unsure)
        
         | nonethewiser wrote:
         | > What happens if tech companies, long seemingly supporting
         | Democrats are wooed by Trump with promises of bullying Europe
         | with more tariffs to stop them from going after American
         | companies.
         | 
         | This has already happened. There is just friction between
         | executives and company culture.
        
           | Braxton1980 wrote:
           | Have previous administrations been as aggressive against
           | other countries due to their policies?
           | 
           | For example with South Africa
           | 
           | " "The United States won't stand for it, we will act," Trump
           | added. "Also, I will be cutting off all future funding to
           | South Africa until a full investigation of this situation has
           | been completed!"
           | 
           | https://www.jurist.org/features/2025/02/11/explainer-
           | underst...
           | 
           | Even if tech companies wanted this and previous admins tried
           | diplomatic pressure or discussions I don't believe it was to
           | the level that we are seeing now.
        
             | nonethewiser wrote:
             | Im sorry, I dont understand your point. I'm talking about
             | Zuckerberg, Bezos, Cook, etc. all appealing to Trump to
             | fight back against EU regulation and continuing to advance
             | their interests globally. They are all very much in favor
             | of Trump's view of EU regulation on US tech companies.
        
             | jonathanlydall wrote:
             | Speaking as a South African, that article was very
             | interesting and didn't seem to misrepresent anything that
             | I'm aware of, but I'm also not especially knowledgeable in
             | these areas. I don't support this law myself, but as
             | mentioned by the article it's not as bad as Trump makes
             | out.
             | 
             | However, there is some context which I feel is missing from
             | your post, in particular how it's a bit strange that Trump
             | even cared to politically attack South Africa.
             | 
             | We're pretty small fry from an economic output point of
             | view, not nothing, but a pretty small market which although
             | it has great potential, has been somewhat stagnant largely
             | due to incompetence and corruption by our government.
             | 
             | Something that would have however gotten notice in the US
             | is that we formally filed a case in ICC against Israel for
             | human rights violations (for the record, I would not
             | personally speak in support of Israel or Palestine).
             | 
             | Something else that is also likely a factor (and is
             | mentioned in the article) is that Musk was born here. Not
             | mentioned in the article is that he has unequivocally
             | stated he has no love for South Africa. If I recall
             | correctly, his family left the country while he was still
             | in school, where he was bullied.
             | 
             | It would be pretty natural that he has some emotional
             | connection to here and would pay some attention to what's
             | happening, at the very least to things which would
             | reinforce his existing world view on us.
             | 
             | Another interesting thing that happened in the last couple
             | of years is that Starlink looked into operating here, but
             | decided not to when the government said a precondition was
             | that a significant percentage be black owned (in practice
             | many companies who adhere to this essentially view it as a
             | form of tax where they're obligated to give a portion of
             | their company away).
             | 
             | Our BBBEE laws which dictate that you can't do business
             | with the government unless your own company and all your
             | suppliers (and their suppliers, ad infinitum) have enough
             | black ownership is quite contentious (and a form racial of
             | discrimination in my books) has resulted in many
             | international investors simply walking away, Starlink
             | amongst them, and I don't blame them.
             | 
             | But It's exactly the kind of thing Musk would no doubt have
             | heard about with Starlink and if I were Musk it would have
             | peeved me quite a bit, possibly enough to point us out to
             | Trump who's always looking for a punching bag to reinforce
             | his existing world views on injustices.
        
             | andsoitis wrote:
             | > Have previous administrations been as aggressive against
             | other countries due to their policies? For example with
             | South Africa
             | 
             | Yes! And in fact, funny your example is South Africa
             | because in the past there was action against South Africa
             | when it was run by the apartheid government! Including but
             | not limited to Congress passing the Comprehensive Anti-
             | Apartheid Act of 1986, which called for an end to apartheid
             | and placed economic sanctions on South Africa. The bill
             | prohibited the import of South African goods, the sale of
             | arms and military equipment to the nation, and any new
             | investment.
             | 
             | I believe Europe wasn't as activist against the South
             | African apartheid government.
             | 
             | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-
             | apartheid_movement_in_the...
        
         | apwell23 wrote:
         | "The original decision covered the period from 1991 to 2014.
         | The European Commission is trying to retroactively change the
         | rules and ignore that, as required by international tax law,
         | our income was already subject to taxes in the US."
         | 
         | how is this not trade war by EU. They are making apple pay
         | taxes from 3 decades ago?
        
           | bigyabai wrote:
           | Apple sold devices in the EU without paying the requisite
           | local taxes by misrepresenting sales figures and lobbying for
           | exemption through Irish law. They knew that their accounting
           | was dishonest and continued with it anyways. Simply having to
           | pay the taxes you owe isn't a trade war.
           | 
           | The FT article is much more clear about why exactly it is
           | harmful:
           | 
           | https://archive.ph/gGC2C
        
           | vkou wrote:
           | Since ~January of this year, international law doesn't mean
           | anything anymore.
           | 
           | But if you think it's still relevant, tariffs against Canada
           | violate international law, perhaps you should get in touch
           | with the US government to have them lifted. Lead by example,
           | and all that.
        
             | apwell23 wrote:
             | > perhaps you should get in touch with your government to
             | have them lifted. Lead by example, and all that.
             | 
             | ok i will reach out to Indian govt about usa's canada
             | tariffs
        
           | potatototoo99 wrote:
           | They broke the law, Apple and Ireland. Just because Ireland
           | is a country it doesn't mean it can't be subject to laws.
           | 
           | > "Ireland granted Apple unlawful aid which Ireland is
           | required to recover". The European Commission found that
           | corporate tax rates as low as 0.005% paid by the tech giant
           | represented an unlawful subsidy. Specifically because other
           | companies were not permitted to obtain the same tax
           | arrangements. As a consequence Apple must pay EUR13 billion,
           | excluding interest, to the Irish Treasury.
        
             | blackeyeblitzar wrote:
             | Did they really break the law? I'm not a fan of Apple and
             | their aggressive walled gardens and general hostility. But
             | I feel like the tax optimization with Ireland is well known
             | to everyone and wasn't an issue until now. It seems
             | dishonest to go back and demand retroactive taxes
             | afterwards. And I bet they aren't the only company in this
             | situation so are they being singled out unfairly?
        
               | Braxton1980 wrote:
               | >Did they really break the law?
               | 
               | According to the EU's highest court they did and that's
               | all that matters. I think you're trying to say that that
               | if you or the US believes that the EU is wrong regardless
               | of EU decisions the US is justified in attacking.
               | 
               | My original comment is pointing out that the current
               | admin seems willing to bully other countries using
               | international trade.
               | 
               | So the EU goes after US tech companies, US tech companies
               | flock to Trump, Trump attacks the EU
        
               | apwell23 wrote:
               | > According to the EU's highest court they did and that's
               | all that matters
               | 
               | Its like saying Euros shouldn't be upset by american
               | tariffs because they are legal per american laws and
               | thats all that matters.
               | 
               | I still don't get why Euros are so freaking upset that
               | USA decided it wants to operate differently. Why doesn't
               | usa have that right.
               | 
               | edit: for butthurt euros calling me names below, Apple's
               | claim is that The EU did not have specific rules in place
               | prohibiting Ireland's tax policies when Apple benefited
               | from them. It even won its appeal on EU court in 2020 on
               | that basis.
               | 
               | Its time for countries like India to claw back taxes that
               | european companies didn't pay during colonization.
        
               | randunel wrote:
               | Your comment before you edited it was
               | 
               | > USA can makeup whatever laws it wants and apply them
               | retroactively too
               | 
               | Which shows how little understanding you have of this
               | topic. This isn't a new law, at all. The tax has always
               | been owed, because state aid / state subsidy has always
               | been illegal in the EU. No new law is being applied
               | retroactively here.
               | 
               | A debt needs to be paid.
        
               | Sloowms wrote:
               | It's not a retroactive law. It's a law not being
               | followed. If you decide to not file your taxes properly
               | and need to pay all the tax you owe after getting found
               | out the law did not change.
        
               | bgnn wrote:
               | Correct term is Europeans, not Euros.
               | 
               | I think you are ignorant about law in general and
               | European institutions. European Court of Justice is
               | established in 1952. European Economic Community is
               | established in 1957. Ireland joined the European
               | communities in 1972.
               | 
               | The court order is just, as Apple didn't pay fair amount
               | of taxes from whole EU operations. This makes it an EU
               | matter. They just need to pay their taxes.
        
               | bigyabai wrote:
               | > It seems dishonest to go back and demand retroactive
               | taxes afterwards.
               | 
               | Quite the opposite. It would be an insult to law abiding
               | companies if they didn't demand back taxes in exchange
               | for market access.
        
               | randunel wrote:
               | State aid to private companies is outright illegal in the
               | EU. It's a matter of finding out how far back this
               | continuous state aid goes to figure out the total.
               | 
               | You only get caught at the end of the illegal activity,
               | but you're responsible for all of it.
               | 
               | My EU country has the concept of "done continuously" to
               | any criminal code article, including tax evasion and all
               | other provisions, and I'm pretty sure it's an EU-wide
               | concept, where penalties go up by a percentage if the
               | crimes were done continuously over a period of time. So
               | breaking the law continuously also matters, not only at
               | the time of getting caught.
               | 
               | What I don't agree with is Apple getting fined. Apple
               | needs to pay the proper taxes for the entire period of
               | getting state aid, but Ireland should get the penalty for
               | subsidising a private company, am infringement procedure
               | should determine that.
        
               | Sloowms wrote:
               | They broke the law indeed. It was a legally untested tax
               | structure that was found to be illegal all along. This
               | also is not the first time the European courts have told
               | member states to stop preferential treatment in tax
               | deals.
               | 
               | It's funny that you say it was well known to everyone and
               | also wasn't an issue. It was well known because precisely
               | because it was an issue.
               | 
               | If a company and country are dishonest about the tax
               | deals they illegally make it's pretty dishonest to call
               | it dishonest to demand the taxes are back payed.
               | 
               | This ruling applies to all the illegal tax schemes
               | European countries have been using. So there are
               | definitely other companies getting the bill as well.
        
           | Braxton1980 wrote:
           | 1. Which international tax law?
           | 
           | 2. It's not a new tax that was applied retroactively it was
           | an EC ruling about how Apple took advantage of the situation.
           | Which was later affirmed by the highest EU court.
        
         | dybber wrote:
         | They will only get a financial benefit if Trump is successful
         | in convincing EU to change their policies, but I think it is
         | pretty little chance of that happening.
         | 
         | EU policies will be decided by the europeans, and if the US
         | tries to coerce EU e.g. with tariffs, EU will use it's
         | "economic bazooka" the Anti-Coercion Instrument which will
         | target some of the same US tech companies.
         | 
         | https://www.ft.com/content/7303e57e-67ca-477a-8d00-8d5213f71...
        
           | bilbo0s wrote:
           | Yep.
           | 
           | In the US, we kind of worked ourselves into a box.
           | 
           | More hostile action from Trump will only deepen European
           | resolve.
           | 
           | I don't understand what we were thinking? There's like 600
           | million people in Europe. All of whom were perfectly content
           | to sleep in the then current global order.
           | 
           | Why take a stick and poke a sleeping lion like that? For the
           | life of me I'll never figure that out?
        
             | graeme wrote:
             | This is one of the guiding documents of the current
             | administration.
             | 
             | https://www.hudsonbaycapital.com/documents/FG/hudsonbay/res
             | e...
        
               | thfuran wrote:
               | I've only just started reading that, but right in the
               | first few paragraphs it says that the main problem is
               | that USD is overvalued, and their proposed solution isn't
               | inflationary. I'm kind of confused.
        
             | bsaul wrote:
             | The only rational i've got to explain trump policy, is that
             | he's been supported by non-western countries to destroy the
             | western world one way or another.
             | 
             | There is unfortunately no other explanation i can think of
             | at this point. Stupidity of this level isn't enough. You
             | need a strong incentive to suicide us all ( because neither
             | europe nor the US are going to win anything with this kind
             | of war. Only our competitors will)
        
               | JoeAltmaier wrote:
               | Remember he's done business on the order of billions. Now
               | he's responsible in some way for a trillion-dollar
               | economy. He's in way over his head, acting like he's one
               | company in a marketplace and he can stiff customers,
               | vendors and other businesses like there's a limitless
               | market. Instead of only like 100 countries in the world.
               | 
               | In way over his head. Clueless how to behave, or what
               | 'winning' or 'losing' might look like.
        
         | jimnotgym wrote:
         | It doesn't work if Trump has already put tarrifs on the EU
         | though. When you fire a gun, it ceases to be a deterrent.
        
         | NotPractical wrote:
         | > This would result in tech companies supporting Republicans
         | 
         | People often forget that these companies care about nothing but
         | money. This isn't an anti-capitalist rant or anything; that's
         | just how the world works. As publicly traded corporations, they
         | are _obligated_ to their shareholders to always make decisions
         | that are best for the company, no matter what. That would
         | include supporting Republicans, if necessary.
         | 
         | It doesn't matter how many angry engineers vent on Twitter
         | about how their favorite megacorps are now Trump supporters.
         | These decisions come from the very top.
        
       | hello_computer wrote:
       | Yes!
        
       | jimnotgym wrote:
       | It is fascinating how sentiment on here has changed in the last
       | few months. If you look back on any of the many threads on this
       | in the last year you see a much more staunch defence of the tech
       | companies. The world sure has changed
        
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